The Invisible Women: Havre de Grace Homeless Pair Deserve To Be More Than Just Part Of the Scenery
Written by A Dagger Reader · Filed Under Local Ink
August 11, 2008 | Email this post
|
(9 votes, average: 3.67 out of 5)
Loading ...
By Richard Clements
About 8 years ago two women and a 7-year old boy appeared, from a yet to be determined place, in Havre de Grace. At first they were seen as just moving in slo-mo from place to place. I saw them many times and simply thought them to be a few old ladies doing their daily slow motion ritual. I was not aware of the details. I was not aware that they were sleeping on the bench in the police station. I was not aware that they were sleeping in the post office. I was not aware that they were sleeping behind stores.
At some point Social Services got involved and removed the boy from the situation as he was not attending school and the parent was not “providing” for him. At some point they left the police station. At some point the post office asked them to leave.
One day about 3 years or so ago…as in the scene from Forest Gump, where after running for a year or two, he simply stops…the invisible women simply stopped moving. They stopped moving 200 feet from the mayor’s yard…300 feet from my yard and seem to be the gate keepers of our one access street.
Here is what’s known about them:
- They are on the corner. They are a mother and daughter. There are a lot of unverifiable stories circulating about them.
- They are not pan-handlers.
- A source in the Havre de Grace Police department has told me that there is an ambiguous account of some type of estate dispute involving them…the women won’t discuss it. The same reputable source told me that the police department doesn’t actually know who they are and they have never produced I.D.
- They are selective as to who they will take assistance from.
In the last year they have taken to displaying signs and standing on the corner of Route 40 and Otsego Street. I have attempted to speak to them only to be met with a stare.
Sadly these women seem to have become part of the scenery and are now as invisible as an individual tree passed on the highway. Everyone seems to have a reason that they are OK where they are. No one considers that standing motionless for three years is not the best indicator of mental health and should be dealt with.
Do we just let them stand there until one of them falls over dead?
UPDATED August 19, 2008:
By Richard Clements
During citizen comments near the end of last nights council meeting I confronted the mayor of Havre de Grace, Wayne Dougherty, as to the lack of progress after over a year in office. When the mayor took office a stock answer of “we are working on it” was given yet over a year later these women still languish in exactly the same spot. My question last night was simple “what humane answer to their plight is being sought?” I explained to the mayor that we had enough ordinances, even locally, to push for a humain entry into the system for these two distressed people.
Mayor Dougherty, after a comment about his chagrin over being blindsided by me, stated, to my utter disgust, that the best he could come up with was passing the buck to the state DOT and asking that they simply pile the women’s stuff into a truck and haul it away using a new rule about memorials at the roadside. The rational behind this is apperantly a comment made directly to the mayor that the Rosa Parks sign is a memorial as stated by the mother. Aside from a plethera of legal issues, and showing the cold heartedness of the administration, an action of this nature only moves the problem and further hurts these women.
The mayor has not exhausted his resources, yet he wants to pass the buck, like Pilot, to the state. If mayor Dougherty would use the city attorney for other uses than talking to me in circles for 2 hours a day, over his marina scam, thinking hes avoiding the unavoidable we might actually make some progress on this very unique issue. If the city attorney was used to move these people into a mental health oriented direction we would possibly eliminate the problem.
since they refuse to speak to those who are in a position to help I would suggest a court order to evaluate there mental condition. other wise be treated as vagrant’s.
Think we can get the ladies to sport fresh Dagger shirts? We would be getting free publicity and helping the homeless. win win!
On the issue of the two lady’s. The source from the police dept is not telling all, for my source at the police dept has told me that yes there was a child and yes social services did step in and remove the child and sent the child to live with his father in W Va which is where these two women are from. Multiple officers have tried to assist these lady’s and have been treated with great disrespect one female (officer) was called a white devil b#@$, by these women. I agree they need to be treated by someone for mental problems. But what gets me is why does Mr Gilbert allow them to send in front of his store and potenionally drive away his customers, and why hasnt our elected officials siad enough is enough and taken care of the situation.
They are on the sidewalk. The police say they can be there as long as they dont block it. They do block the crossing signal button and the sidewalk on Ostego St. No longer can I walk down to the prominade as they block the path. I now have to drive there.
Our mayor says “We are working on it”.
it may be a public’ side walk. and there blocking pedestrian traffic. then they are a public nuisance. which to me read’s as vagrant’s, of which they choose to be. lock up.
the record did an article about them almost a year ago. the reporter interviewed a lot of people, including hdg officials and locals that have tried to help them. lou ward, the owner of the bayou, had teamed up with bch realty guy charlie heiner, and they tried to set them up with a place to live for free. they wouldn’t do it.
they are angry because the post office is now locked at night, because they used to sleep there. they feel that it is public property and that it is their right to be there. they were allowed to until they were allegedly using the bathroom in there as well.
according to what the people working at the liquor store have said they told them, the first sign–which was just the mention of rosa parks–was a result of them being removed from a weis bathroom because they were washing in the sink. they felt that this was discrimination and that’s where the rosa parks comparison began. from there the feelings (or their written signs) of discrimination have increased to what you see in the pictures.
there are definitely a fixture downtown, and everyone has a story about they or someone they know trying to help them. i’ve heard that they cursed a woman who tried to bring them thanksgiving dinner and did the same to several people who tried to give them money.
i’ve also heard that they do have family in the area who have tried to help them and that they still come to visit them on their corner most sundays.
regardless, they aren’t hurting anyone if left alone. they don’t bother anyone, they don’t ask for handouts–they just stand on the corner with their signs and umbrellas. you can’t help people who don’t want help, but i also don’t think that they should be removed.
Richiec will be a long shortly he does not miss much along the haver de grace corridor. we will see what he has to say.
I HAVE TRIED TO GIVE THEM MCDONALDS, I SAY THEM AT THAT FAMILY WASH AND DRY AND OFFERED TO WASH THERE CLOTHES AND THEY ARE MEAN!!! NOT SO MUCH THE YOUNGER OF THE TWO BUT THE OLDER ONE. THEY DONT BOTHER YOU WE SEEM TO BOTHER THEM MORE THAN THEY BOTHER US, ITS SAD THEY COULD GET A LOT OF HELP
From the HdG City code.
108-2-a and c
108-3
108-4
The above can applie in this case.
ARTICLE I Unlawful Assembly [Derived from 1988 Codified Ordinances]
§ 108-1. Definitions.
As used in this chapter, the following terms shall have the meanings indicated: LAWFUL BUSINESS — The act of conducting, going to or returning from any social, educational, recreational, religious, business or any other activity not prohibited by law.
LOITER — To idle, stand around, tarry, remain or wander on foot, or to idle or tarry without being engaged in lawful business. “Loiter” also means to collect, gather, congregate or be a member of a group or crowd of people who are gathered together in any public place or place open to the public without engaging in any lawful business at such place or, having concluded any lawful business, to remain in such place an undue length of time without further lawful business.
PLACE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC — Any place open to the public or any place to which the public is invited, and in, on or around any privately owned place of business, private parking lot or private institution, including places of worship, cemetery or any place of amusement and entertainment, whether or not a charge of admission or entry thereto is made. It includes the elevator, lobby, halls, corridors and areas open to the public of any store, office or apartment building.
PUBLIC PLACE — Any public street, road, highway, alley, lane, sidewalk, crosswalk, or other public way, or any public resort, place of amusement, park, playground, public building or grounds appurtenant thereto, school building or school grounds, public parking lot or any public vacant lot.
§ 108-2. Prohibited conduct.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to disobey the direction or order of a uniformed police officer to desist in loitering at, on or near a public place or place open to the public when such loitering is impeding or hindering or may impede or hinder the free passage of pedestrian or vehicular traffic to, from or within such places.
B. It shall be unlawful for any person to disobey the direction or order of a uniformed police officer to desist in loitering at, on or near a public place or a place open to the public when such loitering constitutes a clear and present danger to the public peace.
C. It shall be unlawful for any person to loiter, without the consent of the owner, operator or person in control, on or about any place open to the public after said premises have been closed for business purposes and after said person has been directed or ordered to leave by a uniformed police officer.
D. It shall be unlawful for any person to loiter on or about any place open to the public during business hours, after having been requested to leave by the owner, operator or person in control of said premises and after having been directed or ordered to leave by a police officer.
§ 108-3. Unlawful assembly on streets and sidewalks and near entrances to buildings.
It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to congregate or assemble at the corner or corners of any of the streets, lanes or alleys or on any of the sidewalks or approaches thereto in said City, so as to obstruct the same, or at the entrance of any public or private building within the limits of said City, and to be engaged in loud and boisterous laughing or talking, or making any rude, obscene or insulting comments, remarks or observations on persons passing by the same, or in their hearing, or to so crowd or obstruct the sidewalks or approaches thereto so as to prevent the free and uninterrupted passage thereto, therefrom or through the same.
§ 108-4. Unlawful assembly by persons or vehicles on thoroughfares and in parking areas.
It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to congregate themselves or vehicles owned, operated or controlled by them at or on any public or private thoroughfare or parking area so as to obstruct the same or the free use thereof or in any disorderly manner as would tend to cause obstruction, loud or boisterous noise, rude, obscene or insulting comments or that might tend in any way to cause to promote violence, and said assembly shall immediately disperse upon the order of the owner of any such property or the person in control thereof or upon the order of any police officer.
I think one of these could be used as a gateway into the system and they could be helped. But alas the only creativity HdG seems to have is our ability to find excuses for the quality detractors in our marina…and ways to demonize those who actually care about this community .
“Good Job Dougherty” !
Go Dagger !
Go Dagger !
they haven’t been told by the police to leave the corner, and the liquor store owner isn’t bothered by them. they don’t heckle passersby. they certainly aren’t keeping a vehicle in a parking lot. even if they don’t accept help–they aren’t hurting or harrassing anyone. you are basically trying to lawfully evict pedestrians (who only interact with others when approached by them) from the sidewalk.
Hdg…aside from the fact that they are under some kind of mental seige…..come to my house and we will cross rt 40….cummon now…ill have your beverage of choice ready.
oh…and if you go to use the gas pumps at night….dont be alarmed when they grumble at you
Go Dagger !
Actually the police did tell them to leave the police station, cut them off from the bathrooms…read there signs…
Go Dagger !
Hdg…pedestrians…are you nuts…pedestrians are in motion going from here to there…they got a goddam anchor…a truckload of junk…and a mental illness…I cant beleive you called them pedestrians…….when they are dead…you can have it on your concious for being an enabler…!!!!!
You’d by a dope addict a fix……the one hell O.D. on…..!!!! (after all hes not bothering anyone)
Pedestrians…..what a joke.
Go Dagger
it would appear there breaking a haver de grace ordinance. and no body cares.and then we have petty law breaker’s doing as they please
Richie is there a spare street corner available?
Yes vet…in the yacht basin…..you can do as you please as long as your name is NOT RichieC. If its RichieC you must be very straite and narrow…in fact your guilty automaticly…no process necessary ! Good Job Dougherty !
In fact…these women break my heart daily as they clearly are in some kind of state of turmoil…to watch them passed by and ignored like a bundle of newspapers simply because we have become used to them is befuddling.
Go Dagger !
I came across these three (at the time) in Aberdeen about eight years ago. The mother, daughter and son appeared on the streets off a Greyhound bus sporting fairly nice clothing and luggage. After several instances of seeing them on the street I stopped to investigate their situation, but met by children who would not speak and a very cautious or suspicious mother. The mother an ddaughter did produce Maryland ID cards, but the address listed was that of the MVA in Glen Burnie. Having committed no crimes and the stop was consentual, I moved on, but seeing them often and wondering what they were all about.
Some months later the mother and son went largely unseen, but teh daughter was working at the McDonald’s on Rt. 40 in Aberdeen. Shortly thereafter they all disappeared and then resurfaced in Perryville and again onto Havre de Grace…curious…
I have to say they are violating local and state laws by obstructing the sidewalk to tout their message to Harford County DSS for taking the son and so on…
Well rick…if thats what the message is…..so be it…which came first the chicken or the egg? Was the son taken and they hit the street or did they hit the street and the son taken?
The point is that they cannot fend for them selves beyond this bizzarr existance…its not tolorable !
Go Dagger !
Richard….by using that law to get them in front of a judge…would not it be a service to them and the community at large ?
i would think as both citizens of the same town–and since you feel others have consistently tried to silence you–that you might welcome a dialogue without attacking and becoming personally insulting. i don’t have to be nuts to have a different opinion than the esteemed richie c. you’re rude. maybe that’s why no one listens to you.
my point is that they don’t want to be helped, and that they really aren’t bothering anyone.
Hdg Citizen…ok im rude….so what! does that change the facts? Have you ever considered for just a second that mabey I have been raised elsewhere where we express ourselves differently, with significently more color…..? I have met very many people who are rude with false, mocking, courtisey…in my native neck of the woods a comment such as mine is not taken for more than what it is, an expression of what I think of what you have said. A little acceptance of different cultures is what severly lacking. If you keep it in context…and use a little common horse sense you would not be so insulted at my strong opposition to your comment…..of course I dont think your nuts…its just a response to a comment I disagree with ..and where Im from its very acceptable to express ones self in that manner. Now considering that New York is the capitol of the world…I think there might be some merritt to what I say.
So you and I disagree……why would you simply let them deteriote..are we not our brothers keeper…is it a lot to ask that these troubled people…who dont even fit the typical homless profile…get at least a fighting chance?
Hint…dont take it to heart…..im not the enemy..at least I am clear in what I say.
But I do appresiate the reaching out from you…so Ive given my best answer to you.
Go Dagger !
So…I just rolled in and its 11.59…the bags are on the corner and they are at the pumps exactly as seen in the pictures.
By the way…I hav’nt rolled in from the bar…Ive rolled in from the plant in Edgewood where I was preparing a load of wall panels for delivery to the Bronx tomorrow. I’ll be up at 4.30 for a 10 am appointment under the crane on Webster Ave and 156 street…anyone wanna ride along?
Go Dagger !
There and eye sore to the visitors of haver de grace. & should at least be removed to a less public area. may be we could invite them back to aberdeen train station. to greet the brac visitor’s. & lounge with the rest of the bum’s that hang there.
Billboards don’t speak, they don’t impeed pedestrians on the sidewalk, and they are used to get a message out. God forbid that any counter-culture group, politico, or John Q. Citizen with an ax to grind finds a picture offensive, a word offensive, or can claim that at 5:07 each day the sightline in their hybrid is slightly altered causing them to speed up and waste enery……..that billboard would be taken down or changed. You hear about it all over the country. These aren’t billboards, but humans, humans that apparently have sometimes coarse exchanges with John Q. Citizen (albeit the 1st Amendment does offer protection in this area), they loiter (stand in one place) on a public sidewalk that may cause John Q. Citizen to step into traffic to get around them or alter a travel path, and they may be suffering from some type of mental health issue.
Taking all of that into consideration, isn’t it the job of the police to protect and serve? Protect those ladies 1st Amendment rights while protecting John Q. Citizens right to walk on the sidewalk uninhibited and in a safe path simply by asking them to move on then ordering them to move on, and if they fail to comply they can be arrested and charged, placed in the system, and receive, under court order, help, whether they want it or not, regarding possible mental health issues.
In my opinion, weak leadership in the police department has let this blossom to the point where it is at right now. Weak leadership in the police department that won’t think outside of the box. Weak leadership in the police department that takes a cue from a town council that is more worried about how things look (and this looks unsightly) and wants to maintain a status quo when it comes to political correctness.
Well Dagger readers, the United States Constitution doesn’t address political correctness. The laws of the state of Maryland don’t address political correctness. In this case I do see political correctness rearing it’s ugly and intrusive head, if these women were men would they be treated differently or if the color of their skin was different would they be treated differently? Is Havre De Grace worried that the almighty Jesse or Rev. Al might come to the quiet town and yell racism? Is it that the town officials don’t care that the “Lady Bums” are fastly becoming the town mascot? Or, is it a simple case of leadership that can’t lead, can’t think outside of the box, and pursues selective enforcement so that there are no headaches?
RWringer we the people are willing to vote you in on the next election. ( aberdeen) sorry Richiec he’s our’s. I have repeatedly seen excellent suggestions made by a former aberdeen police officer ( rick denu)
go totally ignored. when they came from a highly trained& experienced police officer. it might require a certain a mount of effort to put them in too action.
it would seem aberdeen & haver de grace are in need of a change of command or at the very least a review of local ordnance law’s.
Well said rwinger…
HdG is suffering from the Dougherty doctrin at this time.
Its ether a legal issue and cant be discussed…or a personell issue and cant be discussed…or the other stock answer…”we will check it out”…any inquirey or follow up beyond that is met with wrath of the “Dougherty Doctrine”.
Who suffers…two women who dont even know we are discussing them…and our collective conciouses.
This morning I called as usial to the police…”there is junk abandoned on the sidewalk”….the dispatcher said…”no one is complaining”…I told her “what am I, a pinapple?” I was than snapped at and told…”Im sending a car to your house to explain it to you !”.
Go Dagger !
im just scared with everything going on someone is going to harm them or someone/drunks god forbid is going to take them out. i was in an accident twice there hit by a dump truck driver who claimed to have not seen me, please i was driven right up on that very same curb they sit on 4yrs ago so dont you think they should be moved somewhere else and let them protest there give them a house or something let them put all the signs up they want there i work two jobs, why cant they get jobs and work i have plenty of things i want to make signs for and sit out you dont see me doin it, the government will screw you regardless
I have to say they are violating local and state laws by obstructing the sidewalk to tout their message to Harford County DSS for taking the son and so on…
this from Richard Denu who is easily recognized as a law enforcement officer by his reply above. So why cant our local cops and elected officials get their heads out of their buttock’s and open their eyes cause if this was teenagers they would have been in juvenile hall and if it was any other adult of different ethnic back ground they would have been removed. I for one am tired of watching these two pop their pimples, pick their noses, on our public streets. This is not just a matter of our local citizens people as far away as Washington state know about these two so that decreases our tourists, which is the one thing that keeps our community here but that is right our great city council messed that up when they listened to some idiots that said berthing a retired Navel Vessel here would be an eye sore. When really it would have been a part of the local history, a large tourist attraction and an education attraction as well. SO WE JUST NEED TO START A PETITION TO HAVE THEM REMOVED SO THAT WE CAN SHOW OUR TOURISTS THAT WE ARE A CLEAN CITY AND TO SHOW OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET THEM OR THE POLICE DO NOTHING ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i’ve heard this said twice now: what is the basis for saying that if they were of “another ethnic background” (which i’m assuming you mean: if they were white) they would not be allowed to stand there?
I would LOVE to see OUR POLICE AND PUBLIC OFFICIALS do their job in this case! Those women are definitely an eyesore! Nobody feels any compassion for them anymore because they have been offered, and refused, help MANY TIMES! They see somebody trying to walk down the sidewalk … I have been in this position before … and they just stand there with all their “prized possessions”, i’m assuming - not caring if they cause you to have to step into traffic to get around them! THEY’RE A DISGRACE and the public officials need to remove them - arrest them - and get them out of our sight and way!!
I suppose we the people’ should ignore what is obvious. there vagrant’s by choice. haver de grace is and up coming city. aberdeen has a fair share of vagrant’s. wino’s etc.
primarly at the railroad station. greeters for brac no doubt. some body got these ”lady’s” off of the route#40 corridor. most likely the state police. some body made them under stand it’s vagrancy & dangerous. or maybe we can get a ”church” group to gether and sing amazeing grace.
The only petitions honored by Mayor Dougherty are those he initiates….the anti ship petition advertised on the city web site….the petition against free speech with 30 signatures from friends of tha marina manager that got me thrown out of the marina were OK…the petition to get a new marina manager…the petition to get me back in the marina with a hundred signatures…ALL IGNORED…so I dont think a petition to get them off the street is going to help.
I say if you see them in what appears to be distress, if they are in a prone position,…call the police at 939-2121 and report it.
Of course if you want to start a petition drive I will certainly participate. It certainly can’t hurt.
Go Dagger….
Last time I called to police to report junk on the sidewalk (they were in the gas station) I was told no-one complaines…when I said “what do you think Im doing?”…the answer was…”im sending a car to your house to explain it to you!”
This I found disturbing.
Go Dagger !
Does anyone have the time to look up USC on loitering…us 40 is a federal road. Or state code and law on loitering.
Go Dagger !
I was told the mother was complaining that she wasnt feeling well and Joe offered to call her an ambulance. This within the last few days. She declined
Go Dagger !
Then if the police will not do anything unless someone is complaining then maybe if we call them every ten min., then they will do something. Let’s get the petition started ending a copy to the city, the county and the state government.Then maybe we will see something done. As to answer HDG’s ? if they were white the local police here in HDG would have Tazzered and arrested them for the being vagrant’s. They are well known to reverse discriminate there is a large population of homeless white people here in HDG that at night live in hiding in various locations around town because they have been beaten by HDG PD.
firefighter…ok….im in…lets get the logistics, wording, going immediatly. My e-mail address is onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
I dont personally know of any beatings, though, Im still up for the petition.
Go Dagger !
luvarainienight@comcast.net
Send it to me, too … I’m in! I just saw them this morning on the way to my Dad’s house after the Fritsche funeral … very disgraceful to me!! They do, for real, need to do SOMETHING to remove them!
Well just an update I went to Pizza Hut last night and its a good thing that no one was comming down from the car wash cause they would have run them over they were standing in the road talking to them each other only room for one car to get through. Oh and the best thing (HA HA) was that one of our so called law enforcement officers went right past them and the MTA cops should do something you would rhink do to the traffic situation because of the bridge work. OK Richiec and Terri we’ll do the petition well have to sit down together to really hatch out the wording and all.
Richiec and Terri i here is my email address firefighterkrs@aol.com
Ill draft up somthing and send it to both of you to review, take a look and comment…than we will get a consensous and a final wording…..ok…give me until tomorrow
Go Dagger !
You know that they are both not right in the mind. The mother is mental and to me the daughter is also mental as how could she et them take her child so that she could stay on the streets with her Mother? If that was me I would have done what is right for my child and had himin school and a roof over his head.
I can’t see why they let them sport a cart that is full of racial things. Yes I’m sorry that things had happened in the past, but is just that THE PAST! I can’t help what others have done to anyone that long ago as I was not around to change the past. In that case I would have helped the Native Americans keep their land and Afro Americans have the same rights as we did. Why do so many people want to live in the past? If we could all FORGIVE and FORGET them our future could be such a better place.
We need to get them off the streets and if they don’t want to listen them take them to Harfords fifth floor for mental health or let them move back to where they came from. Why did they move from down South to find our nice little town that we try and keep clean. Who wants to stop at the red light and watch some of the timgs that they do. They need to do them in the privacy of their own home. They have money and a steady income so use it. I’m sure if I tried to live on the street I would be run out of town in a second. Why do they get to live FREE in our town when we have to pay taxes to live in a home? They are an eye sore and need to leave our nice little town. I have lived here for 43 years and am proud of our town, but I’m not pleased to have people like them living free where ever they please to stay. They call white people names and treat us like dirt, but if the table was turned we would be in jail and run out of town as fast as they could get us out.
Maybe Joey should charge them rent. Maybe that would make them move, maybe we could take them over the bridge and leave them in Perryville.
How about if they stand out around Bulle Rock and see how long they stay around, I bet it wouldn’t be that long and they would be pushing threir cart on down the road. HA HA
Well said fightercin.
Joe has no say-so in the matter. They are not on his property. The city doesnt want to deal with it…blinders as usial.
Mabey a little noise in a petition…good old fashoned grass roots activism…keep an eye out.
The fifth floor might be just the thing.
Go Dagger !
The folks of Havre De Grace have the government officials that they elected and unfortunately they have a chief of police that the government hired, not so much for law enforcement abilities and leadership, but political correctness. This is just the latest crop of what was sewn years prior.
By the way, if the Havre De Grace poster children were standing, oh let’s say, by the marina, I do believe that they would have been banished a long time ago.
Greeting’s mr RWinger.as alway’s your advice is welcome. I bet if channel 13 new’s appeared in this ignored ”issue” we would hear a lot more excuse’s about how they were so ”busy” with Richiec they did’nt have time for city problem’s.
used dick gelfman’ a time or too my self. before his accident.there was a man that got thing’s moveing! and I do mean fast!
I was reminded recently that the founding fathers gave gaurantees of freedom of the press because they felt that checks and balances…ther court of public opionion was as powerfull as a court of law. Gelphman was a breed that has all but vanished..not afraid to expose and shine a light on an issue. When there is no press the govt seems to get comfortable with doing as it pleases.
Go Dagger !
I came across a You Tube video of these women while researching Port Deposit several months ago. I must admit when my husband told me we would be passing through HdG this weekend (I’ve never been by land before) I knew what I was going to be looking for and sure enough there they were as soon as we came across the bridge. So here I am trying to find out more about them this evening. I live in Pennsylvania by the way. Why don’t you write to some of the investigative news programs? I felt sorry for them at first, but after reading more I can see why the need to remove them. My first instinct would be to help them, but after seeing them, I wouldn’t walk past them on the sidewalk. There is no question they are mentally ill and need help and are loitering among other things. I have a question though, do they stay there and sleep standing up at night? Do they talk to each other? What do they do in the snow and rain just stand there? How long have they actually been standing there?
Where do they eat?
They eat from pizza hut…stuff from 7-11 and highs.
Richie, maybe they could move down to Aberdeen, seems that Ruth Elliott is trying to champion a cause………that’s right the police in Aberdeen wouldn’t put up with loitering, sidewalk obstruction, and alike and then Ruth would beat up on the police for doing their jobs!
they have been on the ” street” for at least a year. hanging a round weis’s food market & burger king. according to rick denu. ( ex police officer ) they arrived in aberdeen. and moved on to haver de grace.
there no longer hanging’ a round rte#40 so I suspect the state police had something to do with that. it may be a civil right’s issue. but frankly I think there crazy and in need of help.
regardless it’s ”vagrancy”
These women don’t want to be bothered!!! All they ask for is to be able to use their rights just as much as anyone of us. So sorry that they are an “eye sore” for Havre de Grace. Although I can mention alot of eye sores in the wonderful world of Havre De Grace, but I won’t go there. These women don’t want your help or anyone else to help them for that matter. Why is that so hard to understand? Oh let me guess……it makes you look bad for living in a town that has these women in it no matter what town it is!! Well boo-freakin-hoo. Get over yourselves. HDG isn’t all it’s cracke up to be….then again there is alot of crackheads in HDG…LMAO!!! So maybe it is cracked up to what it should be. Leave the women alone they are not hurting you or me……just your unjustice since of pride!! Worry about yourselves and not what your family from outta town will think about the two black women standing on the corner of your wonderful town. And as far as for them both being crazy and needing mental help…says you!!!! Nobody has ever asked them their education backgrounds or their work histories or anything that pertains to their mental state. Oh but I guess if you decide to live on the corner of a street instead of living the way the rest of the community see’s fit, then that makes you nuts. So if your eyes are so sore looking at them maybe you should shut them…..for good!!!
You people need to wake up and take a looooooong hard look around!!!! HDG IS NOT THE BEST PLACE TO LIVE IN BY ALL MEANS!!!! Oh or is it that you all only exist on one side of the tracks?
vet they are on 40…40 and ostego st hdg…..
Tonya…they are sick…mentaly stressed…sure it looks like hell….but more important is that they live in the street…at the corner…and yes…when they do harm to themselvs its bothering me.
Tonay….
Go Dagger !
So RichieC attended the Havre de Grace City Council meeting Monday night and was able to get an answer out of Mayor Wayne Dougherty on how the homeless women will be dealt with.
Check out the update to the story above.
Tonya First mental health has NOTHING to do with work history or education level For example Howard Hughes a wealthy well educated man died do to mental illness. Here is another one the Man , an aviation engineer, that designed Boeings Cargo helicopter went crazy because of designing it so education and work history have nothing to do with your mental status duh. what they are doing is harming themselves yes they wether the elements that would be fine if they had shelter, which they don’t , they will not except any nor do they make an attempt to find one they don’t bathe which if you have ever walked past them in the 7-11 or Weis when they were allowed there you would know this, that is also unhealthy not only to them put to the public. They block, that part of the side walk forcing you to step into the street. I have been an ADVANCED EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN, and an ARMY MEDIC for the past 20 years both requiring extensive training in recognizing the signs and symptoms of mental illness and let me tell you they both present all of these signs and symptoms. All we are trying to mainly do is get these lady’s the help they need and should have got when DSS took the 7 yearold boy away and sent him to the father.
Firefighter…well said…
No More Stock Answers. Action. Its realy not a lot to ask for.
Go Dagger !
In Doughertys response he mentioned that he has been in contact with the NAACP. Why in gods name and what in gods name does the NAACP have to do with two people standing on the corner in HdG. We know that they have called a female cop a white devil bitch…and seem to be fairly racist in there thinking…but what does that have to do with anything.
They are mentaly stressed people who ned to be introduced into the system so they can start to function again. We dont need the NAACP’S permission to do what we as a community must do. The NAACP referance is a sign that there is real paranoia (fear) about them by Dougherty. Fear that is crippling his ability to trake action. I wonder what other permissions he has asked groups such as the NAACP, during his tenure….food for thought.
Go Dagger !
First off Richie, how the hell can you even know what the Mayor said since you wouldn’t even give him the courtesy of a response to you attack (which was a blindside). And any dispute to that comment need only watch the broadcast of the council meeting on HCN where Mr. Richie, in his charming way (charming as a cold sore that is), berated the Mayor and then immediately stomped off, not allowing his questions to be answered or his comments to be addressed.
The police do know who these people are, ID’s have been confirmed. THEY REFUSE ALL HELP. Every single government agency, church or charitable group in the tri county area has made numerous attempts to assist these people and they flat out refuse. There was even a rent free apartment set up for them, which they refused. The police do not arrest them for one simple reason…the only charges that could possibly be placed against them will not stick. They will not stick because the State’s Attorney has explicitly told the police department that they will not prosecute them for those charges. It also doesn’t help that they spend their time on private property and the property owner’s have said they will not prosecute for trespassing. And I can’t even understand why you would want to get the police involved when there is so many more pressing issues in this town that need to be addressed that some stubborn women on a corner.
These subjects do not meet the qualifications to be committed to a mental health facility under an emergency petition. The police can’t just swoop in and put them on the 5th floor of Harford because people don’t think what they are doing is right or healthy…trust me, if that were the case Richie, I would have petitioned months ago for you to be there.
You need to let the agencies that are working on a solution for this problem do what they need to do. The system does not work overnight, and as you have stated in one of your previous rants - if you like the fact that tanks aren’t rolling down your street and the gestapo isn’t beating down your door, then breathe…relax…and let the system work.
You think just because something doesn’t go the way you think it does, that everyone must hear your blathering and bow to your will…doesn’t work that way.
And if your biggest complaint is the “eyesore” they create…how about that big old boat I saw recently parked in your yard (in violation of city ordinances). But I guess your yard is the only place for you to park it since your glowing personality has gotten you banned from every other marina in town…
Greeting’s richie’ It would appear you are in trouble again. well at least you made and appearance at the council meeting. no doubt with the thought of being removed. you’ saved them the trouble. then there this is this matter of a boat in your lawn…….
well rathernot say
…since the mayor is very combative with me I felt that it would be better to throw the question at him and let him address the city in general…for your info I knew his response from the van outside the city hall.
If I had stayed around he would have been answering me…and hes not real good with me….so I let him account to the citizens in general.
Futher rather……and as indicated here over and over…and in my comment to the mayor…the humain entry into the system with a goal of getting them the help they desperetly need is the main goal….the fact that it will improve the community in general is also a plus.
Thirdly…the boat doesnt break any ordinances…so stfu…as your ilk likes to spew…
Fourth…if it wasnt for the fact that Dougherty is ass deep into this lie he promoted in referance to me and the marina…this would have all been settled a long time ago….the problem he has is that he will appear to be wrong if he allows me into the marina…and his big fat ego cripples his judgement.
Fifth….already there is a allowing my boat into the marina…their way of making it go away…but its not good enough for me….he will have to endure the truth for me to settle.
Sixth…you have no clue what your talking about
Seventh….even when that boat moves another will take its place…there will always be a boat in MY drive way…..notice the word “MY”, as opposed to his…the bassis for Doughertys bizzarr behavior.
As usial your ilk spews garbage…but what the hell….
So smarty…tell the readers what ordinance the boat is breaking…by letter and verse…or shut yout pie hole.
Go Dagger
Hey vet…
just another mindless cheerleader.
Rather not will not cite any ordinance because there is none.
Go Dagger.
it’s my understanding,people who are considered ” normal” attempt at least to try and live any where but a street corner. I would suggest & evaluation for the states attorney. or does he live on a street corner too.as far as all this rhetoric I don’t believe the elected council is a bit concerend about the ”lady’s” on the corner.
I may be there shortly’ my self. I do expect the same respect the” lady’s” are receiving. no aggravation from the police etc. one exception I do except hand out’s. no mc donald’s please.
I do think it would be interesting’ to contact and investigative reporter just too see who squrims.
Well it goes to show how much people around here really to pay attention, seeing as the Record did a very in depth interview with both of these subjects…not really all that long ago.
I also find it amusing that this topic is regarding the ladies on the corner, yet you go on for a half a page about one comment I made regarding your boat…(by the way I was referring to City Ordinance § 140-4, which any decent Code Enforcement could certainly apply to the situation I’m referring to, but I digress)
Trust me, I am not a mindless cheerleader. Many of the things done in this city I am vehemently (to save you the trouble of breaking out your dictionary. Vehemently: expressing with a strong or forceful attitude) opposed to. Specifically the treatment of the owners and the patrons of the Billiard’s Club…but that’s a topic for another conversation.
I’m not sure if maybe someone needs to revert to German or Spanish or Brooklynese to get you to understand, but maybe if I talk loudly, like you, you’ll actually hear me.
ALMOST EVERY AVENUE HAS BEEN PURSUED TO GET THESE PEOPLE HELP. SOCIAL SERVICES, LOCAL CHURCHES, DISTANT CHURCHES, PRIVATE RESIDENTS, MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS, FEDERAL AID PROGRAMS. THEY CAN NOT BE FORCED TO ACCEPT THE HELP.
I would like to force you to take classes in courtesy, couth and how to be a decent human being. But I can’t, even though it is obvious you desperately need them. Just like we can’t force what we think is right on these ladies, I can’t force common human decency on you.
Now of course, the next step is force. Let’s get physical and remove them from our sight. Well, if you want to go to the commissioner and press charges on them for loitering (which is only a city ordinance, and a bad one at that according to our State’s Attorney), you go boy. But all that is going to happen is they will be served a summons and then fail to go to court. And that is only if the State’s Attorney doesn’t just nolle pros the case before it gets to that point. How can you expect the police (and the city for that manner) to get involved when they have been rendered legally impotent. The State’s Attorney has been consulted numerous times by the Police Department and over and over again, the result is the same. You can try to arrest them, but we won’t prosecute it.
So I lay this at your feet. Give me a solution. A realistic, legal solution. Something that hasn’t already been tried. And I’ll make you a deal. If you can provide me with something logical, feasible and humane…then I will never again present myself as the thorn in your side. Somehow I don’t see that happening, but I will still off the possibility.
Rather …you just don’t..nor will you ever….get it!
Go Dagger
Richie
I beg of you…help me to get it!!! You rant and rave that nothing is being done about the problem, yet when an explanation is given of what has been done and why you aren’t seeing visible results, you clam up. Who’s not getting what?
I agree…but the prejudice shown against me has stopped me from commenting…on the treatment of the billards club…..as patently unfair…akin to the treatment of me…a railroading..unamerican….but you….Rathernot…show a concern and a non concern…rather curious. I guess it depends on who you are to get fair treatment or consideration.
Lets open a thread on that issue if we want to discuss it as adults…this thread is for the ladies….in need of help.
The ladies help offered is limited to asking them if they WANT help. They are menatly ill and will say no…under sycotropic drugs and with intensive counsiling they may actually be nice productive people. I spent the day at a mental health facility in new york. Its run by a church and caters to mentaly I’ll folks who abuse drugs and has both in and out patient care. The common thread is that the mentally stressed do not want help and drop off meds after feeling good for a while as the meds affect them and in a state of mind thats reality based they feel the temptation to stop their drugs because of the side affects and they dont know they digress to the depths of the illness. These ladies just need a kick start towards reality….thats through the courts….not the goddam DOT. Do they not deserve this chance that to this day they have not been afforded? Even rathernot cannot be this cold blooded.
Rather not…you are chastized by me for you childish boat comments…why would you…in a thread about mental illness…cite a boat??
Tell ya what…thats for another thread…and we can have a trial….but here is for the ladies.
Go Dagger !
Ps…it was watching the billard club being beaten up on that made me walk in and raise a little hell…to send a signal that you wont get hit by lightning if you comment.
Just thrown out of the marina.!!!
Go Dagger
What visible results are you speaking of?????
They have been in the same spot for three years.
Are you saying waynes comments are visible results?
Go Dagger.
There has been no attempt to involuntary move them to a situation where a judge or professional can take a look at them.
It may be such a small thing that brings them back to earth…isnt it worth a try!
Go Dagger !
§ 140-4. Storage of junk, motor vehicles, appliances and furniture.
It shall be unlawful for any owner, occupant, lessor, lessee, tenant and/or person, firm or corporation in control of any lot, lots, parcels or tracts of land within the City to permit any junk, trash, refuse, debris, garbage, or rubbish; abandoned or inoperable bicycles, boats, boat trailers, mopeds or motor vehicles; or abandoned appliances, equipment or furniture to remain on any such lot, lots, parcels or tracts of land if such materials or items are dangerous or detrimental to the adjoining properties or the public health and safety and welfare of the citizens of the City or are the nesting place of vermin
ok…what abandoned boat is there that is a nesting place for vermen
try again…
Go dagger!
That boat is registered with the dnr…has insurance…and is fully functional…and is pretty goddam fast…unlike many of the wrecks in the marina especialy house boats…
Go Dagger
The key word is inoperable……
Back to the ladies…
What can we do….I am putting a petition some have suggested together. This is not pass the buck time.
Go Dagger !
the record’ like the aegis is a small time paper. it does not carry any weight. they are commonly used for weed control. interesting city ordnance pertaining to a boat. now where is the one pertaining too ”vagrancy” blocking a side walk etc.
maybe we should ”advertise” the ”lady’s” as and attraction. welcome to Haver de grace’ home of two lady’s who live on the ‘’street”. no admission fee’s. may be we could get the mayor to join them.and pictures taken.
Well Richie apparently likes to take pictures, so why not let him set up a stand and sell the pictures - $5 a pop.
As far as the Record’s readership…mostly those who live in this area, which would be the prime audience to address an issue that effect the people who live in this area!!! I really doubt an article in the New York Times would get anything done.
And once again, it doesn’t matter what the ordinances say regarding these ladies, the police can write the citations all day long…in fact they will most likely have to arrest them, because the ladies will refuse to sign the citations. But when it goes to court, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. They will be released and be right back out on their corner, with even more signs complaining about their unfair treatment. And if you pay attention, they don’t block the sidewalk. Every time the police are called regarding them, they are not blocking the sidewalk.
I will also say this…no judge will order them to be held on a mental health evaluation. They are not a danger to themselves or others. Yes what they are doing isn’t healthy, but they do not pose an immediate threat. And even if you could find a judge to issue an order, it is only good for a 48 hour commitment…which would put them right back on the street.
Basically the point I am trying to make is that this is not a problem that is going to be solved overnight. These ladies have been in Havre de Grace for the past 6 years. YES 6 years. And since their arrival here from the Aberdeen area, they have been offered help and banned from property after property. Which has only resulted in their being forced onto a little corner of land that no one really has much jurisdiction over. And there they will stay until they can be convinced that they need help. I will say I have seen evidence of some things working. Recently a church van pulled up to their corner and the ladies were seen talking and taking items. Maybe that is a start. But demanding something be done with them right away…it’s not going to work. It’s only going to make the situation worse. Patience is the true virtue in this situation.
Oh and Richie…I could honestly care less about your boat. I just find it amusing to watch you rant and rave about piddly little things. I didn’t even read through that ordinance…I just searched for one that had to do with boats.
Keep the thing in your yard…better yet…by god I’ve got it!!!!
LET’S MOVE THE LADIES FROM THE CORNER INTO YOUR BOAT!!!!!
If it’s going to just sit there, get some use out of it….
(That ought to really get him going…)
Rathernot just to inform you if a judge orders a mental evaluation it is 72 hours and if it is done on a Fri then it doesn’t include Sat or Sun which would be an additional 48 hrs on top of the 72. Like you said it wont be solved over night but then a gain if we the tax payers get envolved it will get done quicker then the city doing it because as you pointed out they have been dealing with this for six years, and if you read all here they are a threat to them selves and others it was posted here that they where not only blocking the side walk causing people to step into the street which on that coner is highly dangerous they themselves were standing in the street blocking one lane of traffic and an HDG cop drove right past and didnt even stop and tell them to get out of the street. As emt 9091 stated we just want to basicly save their lives before they actualy do need an Ambulance or a funeral home. The city has had 6 years thats at least 2 mayors and very little has been accomplished except them being pushed around the city, all we are trying to do is push the city to look harder at the matter, it was very obvious to DSS that what they were doing was wrong when they took the child at That time they DSS should have taken them into cusdity for child neglect and got them the help then.
very well said fire fighter. it’s apparent nothing is being done or will be done if it require’s and effort from the elected officials. there concern is calming richiec from makeing a disturbance.
which in turn disturb’s there peace & quiet. they are a hazard to them self’s as well as passer by’s. I think a court order would do nicely. I would’nt place to much faith in department of social services.
oh my god, you had to STEP AROUND them? are you serious?? arrest them immediately! dude, they stand next to a parking lot–i seriously doubt that someone is going to be hit walking in the street. has it happened in the last 6 years? how many injuries, deaths, people beaten by ragged umbrellas?
i don’t see how they are a threat to themselves and others. besides one alleged incident of “white bitch” namecalling (as offensive as many a RichieC post)–what are we really looking at here? that they make the city look bad? that they make you uncomfortable?
it’s been said many times: if you leave them alone, they don’t bother you. i haven’t heard one thing about them hurting anyone. unfortunately, that’s the basis for emergency mental evaluation in maryland:
Conditions necessary for emergency treatment/observation:
§ 10-623(b) probable cause that individual has shown symptoms of mental illness and that there appears to be a clear and imminent danger of bodily harm to self or others.
just be honest about it like some have been–don’t pretend like you are trying to do them a favor. you don’t want to have to look at them. as far as i’m concerned it’s the same as the stupid boat: your neighbors don’t want to look at it, they’re sure that your breaking some sort of ordinance or other, and until they can pin you on it, they have to be annoyed as they pass everyday.
firefighter, your english teacher should be taken into “cusdity.”
vet–your punctuation is coming along man. i only had to read your post 2 times to understand it. keep it up.
overdramatization what rock did you crawl out from under? get with the program there apparently crazy. maybe should read this 3 time’s so you will understand.
i realize that their behavior is off. duh. but my point is that they are not a “threat” as some have said. and that being said, i reiterate (with extra emphasis, so you only have to read it once):
Conditions necessary for emergency treatment/observation:
§ 10-623(b) probable cause that individual has shown symptoms of mental illness AND THAT THERE APPEARS TO BE A CLEAR AND IMMINENT DANGER TO BODILY HARM TO SELF OR OTHERS.
All this finger pointing motivated me to read up on what Harford County as a whole is doing to take care of its homeless as mandated at all levels of law. Found the following report (http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/services/community/doc/577.pdf) on the Harford County Dept of Community Services - Community Development web site. Below are some select statements from 2006 Harford County Community Survey of Services page 72 through 76 — very interesting the giant section about HDG.
In reading all this, here’s my current list of questions a) Are these women being treated differently than all the other homeless in the city/county and, if so, why? b) Has the HDG PHA Board achieved any real results or improvements toward overcoming their current “troubled” status? c) Which elected officials within HDG appointed the board and can be congratulated for it’s successes to date (or conversely…)? d) Since all homeless cases are unique what is HDG’s documented policy for bringing all public and private charity resources within the city and county together to coodinate the care of homeless individuals and families to expedite thier return to self-sufficiency and when was the last time it was explained / reviewed with police and other public servants of the city to ensure its adequacy?
===============from the report ==================
Havre de Grace Public Housing Authority
The Havre de Grace Housing Authority is one agency in Harford County that offers a public housing program, along with Harford County’s Housing Agency. Residents can make an application for Public Housing either at the Havre de Grace Housing Authority or at the Harford County’s Housing Agency.
91.500 (b)(4): The City of Havre de Grace is currently working with the Havre de Grace PHA to work towards improving its “troubled” status. Harford County Government has no jurisdiction over the troubled Havre de Grace PHA because the PHA is located within the City of Havre de Grace’s jurisdiction. The City of Havre de Grace Public Housing Authority has been designated as a troubled PHA since 11/14/03. A site visit and meeting with the Board of Directors was held and an amended MOU (memorandum of understanding) was prepared. The Havre de Grace Public Housing Authority is an independent agency run by the Board of Directors. It is currently working to get out of the “troubled status” and now has full control over their own money. Recently, the Housing Authority
sent out an RFP to developers to see if they can both update and expand the Housing Authority units. Part of the RFP included a proposal for bringing the existing units up to code and adding additional units to be sold as affordable housing and expanding to an additional 30 to 40 units of senior housing.
91.205 Housing Needs:
Based on the previous analysis Harford County has identified the following issues:
- Cost burden for female head of households
- Gaps in the number of affordable units for those renter populations less than or equal to 30% of the area median income and greater than 80% of the area median income.
- Gaps in the number of affordable units for the owner populations greater than 80% of the area median income.
- There are 7,584 substandard housing units in Harford County that is in need of repairs.
Currently, Harford County has 28 overnight shelter beds available year round to the general population and 28 emergency shelter beds available for victims of domestic violence. Harford County provides additional hotel bednight during periods of freezing weather. Additionally, there are currently 62 transitional shelter beds. In fiscal year 2006, 26,627 shelter bed nights were provided to approximately 632 different people in Harford County. As part of the Continuum of Care- Housing Gap Analysis Chart, Table 1A shows an unmet need or gap of 49
individuals and -8 persons in families with children.
There squatters & vagrant’s.that is illegal.now if they were proven to be ”Crazy” there would be know need for charges to be filed. what we have is a hell of mess on a public street.
we might get’ Richiec to donate his boat for them to live in. which in turn would make it and ”ark” & the town fathers would bless him for his kindness & takeing this mess off of there hand’s because it’s apparent they don’t want any part of it.
Vet…is it my imigination or have the new names appeared…posing straw man arguments…as was done when the marina mafia and related threads were on going?
Vet..Ive said it befor…they should move them in with the rest of the HdG homless….to the marina…where they could be given city jobs and abandoned sailboats to live on.
Go Dagger !
Forest hill…these people are unique….they choose to be where they are. They have resources….they are not willing to leave the corner. They are not typical homeless.
The only option when they wont act rationaly is to get them into the system. The way they are living is unsanitary…unhealthy…hurts property values…and doesnt help them deal with any legitimate greivance they might have.
And yes they are blocking the sidewalk….a minor technicility that could result in futher action that could ultimitly help them…verses letting them stand there until they tip over dead.
I just arrived home and they are now barefooted…blocking ostego street. Im waiting for Doughertys DPW truck to show up …two big guys get out…escorted by police…throw their crap in the back and haul it away…mabey inciting an assult…Dougherty…what a guy !
Go Dagger !
Rather…so your admittedley just an a**wipe…ok fair enough. But ill bet you did read it and you were just proven wrong…or mabey you asked Wayne for the ord…and he didnt read it…as usial.
DB
ROCK…..sleeping within feet of a busy intersection…with the possibility of errant cars running them over is clear and present danger to them.
Go dagger
such
…my neighbors are sweethearts and more of them than me keep large boats in their yards….the only problem and trouble maker on this block is sad sack dougherty…and my boat being here is not an issue except to his cheerleaders. No one on the block cares…rather is just an admitted shit stirrer…cheerleader…citing ordinances that dont exist…stupid actions from a stupid person.
now such
…are you going to make me show you the dozens of times that i have said “it looks like hell”…..but why do it in a inhumain way…and is there not legitimaticey to wanting a good end to the story? Do you find that the two cant exist?
Go Dagger.
Richiec if they have and income. that can be proven’ our tax money known as a public assistance check. which is not likely since a post office box is illegal as and address. or any other source of income. there not vagrant’s under maryland law.
but there squatters & a public
Richiec are you saying’ the ”mayor” found his family jewel’s and removed there trash from the street?
No vet…he stated that he was going to pass the buck to the state and get them to do it. see the update to the artical…its explained there.
Go Dagger !
such over dramatization, Before you take my English teacher into custody maybe you should proof read what you wrote then use both spell check and grammar check. For one thing when you begin a sentence it starts with a capital letter not a lower case letter. Second God is always spelled as I have spelled it with a capital G. Like Vietnam vet said maybe you should read this three times no make it four times, starting with the first comment all the way to the last. Then if you still don’t understand walk right up to them get a good smell and try to talk to them if you can. As for the person that they called a white devil bitch that was a Law Enforcement Officer who was performing their duty at the time, they also spit at her.
And Vietnam vet,
Thank you and welcome home brother.
Rather Not Say,
Do you have something to hide? Or just rather not say? You talk a lot of smack about things and people and YOURATHERNOTSAY!
You stated “you need to let the agencies that are working on a solution for this problem do what they need to do. The system does not work overnight”
How many OVERNIGHTS do we need to give them? They have been around for years not days! I think we have given them enough time to stand around stinking up our town, being rude to people and being an eyesore. People worry about a boat that sits in a PRIVATE driveway that is legal, but you don’t mind vagrant’s standing around then you all have a problem!
As for people being hit on Rt. 40 yes they do as I have been on calls that we have picked up what was left of the person. So yes people do get killed on that road. No one should have to walk around them, they should move so people can walk past, but maybe that is just me having manners and no mental illness and thinking that maybe I should step aside and let the person pass. NOT THAT HARD!!!
ANYONE that would let them take their child away from them has some kind of illness. Why would anyone stay on the streets with their MENTALLY ILL Mother and let the state take their son away from them. I know my mother means the world to me, but I think that I would have went with my son. Why did they keep the son on the streets with them and out of school? I guess there is no mental Illness in that family! Can’t you all see that they need help?
Have you ever went in to Weis after they were in the store? They placed all the dirty bags up front by the counter and would go in the restroom and you couldn’t even breath after they left it. I went in turned around and left the store. They had the WHOLE store stunk up. To me that is not healthy at all. Who wants to wear the same clothes day after day in the heat and NEVER shower? AGAIN DO YOU SEE MENTAL ILLNESS IN THIS PICTURE? They need to be placed where they can get the correct help and RX so they can live a better life and it is not the life on a street corner PICKING ZITS off the others face. I have seen that twice and almost tossed my cookies. They can go under the bridges with the other homeless people that don’t bother anyone! You know the ones that would love help, but can’t get it. I guess they need to stand on the corners to get a room for a night or an offer to live free for a year. Why can they get help, but the ones that want and need it can’t??
I think they do it for attention. I don’t know anyone that has been mean to them, but as soon as you try and talk to them they turn mean and nasty. They talk to other Afro Americans, but not to very many white people. Do you see something wrong with that picture.
I have worked with mentally ill patients and I know what they look like and how they act and I see it all in them. So I’m just not talking like I think I know what it looks like, I DO KNOW! We have a nice little town and it would be nice for people to drive around to not have to look at them. They have been run off from all the places from Weis down to Joey’s. Who wants to go to any of the food places around and have to look and smell them before or after you eat. I know I don’t and will not. I say take the bags place them on a bus and send them back to where they started from. Maybe the one can get her child back, or at least visit the child I would think that he misses his mother and wonders why she is not around. How would you like to be her son and grow up and learn that she chose to stand and live on the streets then to be in a home with him???? Would be hard to stomach for that boy. He is the one I feel sorry for, but at least he has a roof over his head.
Is pretty bad when you can sit and read the things we write and then talk about our grammer. Maybe you should go stand on the corner with the bag women and teach them a few things. Let me give you a lesson on why people may not use proper grammer.
Dyslexia: is a condition in which an improper functioning of the brain causes a person to have difficulty recognizing and processing written or spoken words. People with dyslexia typically have trouble with reading and writing.
Not everyone can be perfect, but you can try. We were talking about helping people get help so they are safe and people around them are also safe not grammer or boats.
Talk to firefighterkrs once and you will see that he is a very intelligent person and can tell you just about ANYTHING you want to know. You can address him as SGT. Firefighterkrs!
Maybe someday in the near future they will get the women the help they need and get them off the streets. I do hope it is soon! At one time I felt sorry for them, but now that I know the whole story I don’t feel sorry for them, I feel sorry for the ones that have to look at them everyday. I would rather look at the boat!
Thank you’Firefighterkrs. I wonder how long it’s going to take for people to under stand there human’s in need. apparently lacking the ability to make proper decisions for them self’s.
Semper- fi.
established:
they’re crazy.
they look terrible.
they stink.
they won’t accept help on their own.
they are nasty when approached.
i think most people agree on those issues at least. so dougherty passes the buck. we all care enough to be commenting here. what can we as citizens do together (besides a petition) to get them help and get them off the street? there has to be a better way than throwing them in jail, in my opinion. so let’s discuss real solutions.
Jail is not the desired result…
The city has injuctive releif it can ask a judge for….it can be done by making a reason to get them in front of a judge…such as not answering a summons…or by simply having the city atty ask for releif from the court…god knows he has the time…hes spending an hour a day speaking in circular arguments with me.
Go Dagger !
Unbelievable. All of you unbelievable. One sentence about a boat, and we now have 6 comments ALL ABOUT THE DAMN BOAT! WHO CARES ABOUT THE BOAT! THE BOAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!!!!
And as far as grammar and spelling, it has nothing to do with dyslexia or any other disability. It’s common courtesy. Which, as I’ve said before, RichieC lacks. Dyslexia doesn’t keep you from using the shift key. It also doesn’t keep you from using a spell check.
And once again, I have never once said these people are not mentally ill. If you would take the time to read my well organized, topically oriented and grammatically correct comments, you would understand that. I am very well aware that they are ill. What I am trying to tell you is this: The State of Maryland has very specific guidelines as to what constitutes a mental illness that is severe enough to warrant an involuntary commitment. THESE PEOPLE DO NOT MEET THESE QUALIFICATIONS YET. And you can argue until you are blue in the face as to what laws they are breaking, and you are probably right. BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN A DAMN THING IF THE COURTS WILL NOT FOLLOW THROUGH.
You people keep accusing the city government of passing the buck. It’s not passing the damn buck. They have been trying to address this issue for 6 years with no results. That is one of the reasons the son was taken by Social Services…it was their hope that when the son was taken, that they would finally accept help. It didn’t work. Nothing has worked. So now the city is trying to be creative to get something done. And because these ladies have parked themselves on State property, it’s time to see what solutions the State may have.
You know, I love this site for all the news and information contained. But some of the people who frequent here…man…makes you just hang you head.
And no Richie he doesn’t have time. Whatever free time he might have from running the City is spent being berated by you.
Firefighter cin…well said…well said….to the point…and truthfull..
Its good to see some of our BEST and our FINAST speaking out…..! !
Go Dagger !
And here is another thought…bitching about the problem is not going to solve it. And I have challenged Richie to provide a realistic, feasible and humane solution to this problem, and have yet to hear a response.
Though he has gone on and on about my boat comment…
Hear what you want and only answer what you want…works find for Richie, but don’t let anyone else do it.
Follow this closley
“”RatherNotSay on August 22nd, 2008 9:55 am
And no Richie he doesn’t have time. Whatever free time he might have from running the City is spent being berated by you.”"..
.”"LET’S MOVE THE LADIES FROM THE CORNER INTO YOUR BOAT!!!!!
If it’s going to just sit there, get some use out of i.”"”"….
…”"”And if your biggest complaint is the “eyesore” they create…how about that big old boat I saw recently parked in your yard (in violation of city ordinances). But I guess your yard is the only place for you to park it since your glowing personality has gotten you banned from every other marina in town…”"” “”Trust me, I am not a mindless cheerleader. Many of the things done in this city I am vehemently (to save you the trouble of breaking out your dictionary. Vehemently: expressing with a strong or forceful attitude) opposed to”"”
These comments in a thread about what to do with a community problem has been caustic and cleverly reacted to by RATHERNOTSAY, the straw man arguments, the demonization and villification, the deflecting of the issue with untruths and lies (the boat ordinance), the attempting to indict in the speakers in public opionion, the attempt to marginalize the speaker, the attempts at humiliating or embarrising the speakers …..are right out of the Herman Goebbels Nazi propaganda handbook given to local propoganda meisters before ww2 and during the rise of the Nazi party (yea there was a great crew).. This was designed for use by politicians and officials trying to win a point and the last time we saw this in the dagger..with RATHERNOTS INSIDE INFO was during the prime of the MARINA MAFIA debate at which time I said I beleived they were HdG govt insiders by virtue of the comments and info they had. Not to mention the attacks for off subject reasons of other dagger posters in this thread.
The truth is that RATHER is upset that somthing is being discussed when he doesnt want it discussed…you can see the anger that hes not getting his way…ANGER THAT THE PROPOGANDA MACHINE DOESNT WORK…and thats a good thing.
This is truly scary and refreshing at the same time!
Now back on subject.
Go Dagger !
Rather…
I think I have said it many times
Go dagger!
Rathernotsay. take’s these issue’s personally. if you’ find the issue’s so disdainfull’ I would suggest just stop reading it. we the people are not excuseing the city of anything. except there self centered need’s. any body for golf today ?
For the court’s to follow thru some body’ has to get off there’ A–S’S and realize there is a problem !
as for Richiec he’s protecting his civil right’s. as he said the Haver de grace mafia ran him out of the marina. we should move our homeless ” citizens” to the park. bet there day’s will be numbered.
Semper- fi.
Rather not say has made an interesting comment…..In one comment he responds to my stating “That the city atty has the time on his hands to get this problem solved”…and RATHERNOT replies “HES TO BUSY RUNNING THE CITY”.
Why is the city atty running the city? If thats the case…what is our mayor doing if Ishak is running the city. Is our mayou a willing puppett? Who elected Ishak…the atty for Alan Fair’s BHC realty.
Is BHC realty running this city?…Is alan fair running it behind the scenes…? Who knows the answers…evidently RATHERNOTSAY does !
Ok lets get back on topic…tha Invisible women and the need to get then in the system…so a judge can nudge them back to reality by asking for a evaluation…which may result in counseling, rx, and a better life…and a better community.
Go Dagger !
Thank you vet for the kind words of understanding and support.
Go Dagger
Rather…one last thing that made me laugh…
Rathernotsay said
“Unbelievable. All of you unbelievable. One sentence about a boat, and we now have 6 comments ALL ABOUT THE DAMN BOAT! WHO CARES ABOUT THE BOAT! THE BOAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!!!! ”
In you comment a few back you finally admitted it…Its not about boats
During the marina mafia arguments….the boats were used to deflect from the civil rights and discrimination issues…now you complain !
Go Dagger!
Richiec we are talking ” clout” when we speak’ of BCH. old money very good possibility there running the show behind the scene’s. it’s rumored Art helton is the MAN in aberdeen.
might be but he brought improvement when he came. does AJ own any boat’s?
Clout may be exactly whats at hand here….if he did bring improvement thats great…but do we have to appoint him king for life…if thats the case?
Remember that was just a posed question based upon where RATHERNOTSAY as going with his comments.
Go Dagger !
Still waiting for your suggestion for a solution! All I’m hearing is moaning, arguing and finger pointing.
Rather you not looking very hard…the solution we are asking for has been stated by many over and over….
Go Dagger !
The solution is apparent. contact a new’s media from baltimore & and the tired blood in Haver de grace. might just find some energy to remove the do not disturb sign’s from there office door’s.
I suspect in retaliation. Richiec will be subject to there anger.
Vet….their anger has become farsical at this point….
vet you got the idea…mabey…mabey
Go Dagger !
Rather not I have many comments for you first YOU ARE THE ONE THAT FIRST BROUGHT UP THE BOAT so take your punishment about your comment. Second if you think that you are so smart that miss spelling and grammar are not effected by Dyslexia you are 100% wrong.
Dyslexia is considered to be a learning disability. It manifests primarily as a difficulty with written language, particularly with reading and spelling. It is separate and distinct from reading difficulties resulting from other causes, such as a non-neurological deficiency with vision or hearing, or from poor or inadequate reading instruction.[1] Evidence also suggests that dyslexia results from differences in how the brain processes written and/or spoken language. Although dyslexia is allegedly the result of a neurological difference, it is not an intellectual disability. Dyslexia occurs at all levels of intelligence.[2]
You see I know all about Dyslexia Because I have it, as did Albert Einstein, so before you or any one comments about how someone types in here you need to think.
You must be the city’s atty because you sure do have a lot of law knowledge, but if you did you would know that you don’t need a judge to issue an emergency mental health evaluation if our law enforcement would do their job they can with the assistance of the ambulance take both of them to HMH’s for this evaluation. All it takes is someone calling them and them actually doing something other than send a car to the person that called them to tell the tax paying citizen that the atty said we cant do anything. So there is the city answer and that is why nothing is getting done. At least 2 Mayors and not a thing accomplished.
So where is your evidence of the city trying to do anything except move them from various locations in the city so everyone can at least see these two on a corner nears them? Please that is not try to solve anything.
AS ALL OF US HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE THE PATITION IS TO SHOW THE CITY THAT WE ARE TIRED OF THIER LAZYNESS AND GETTING PAID TO NOT DO THE JOB THEY WHERE PUT THERE TO DO, AND THE ULTIMITE GOAL IS TO GET THE WOMEN INTO A TREATMENT CENTER NOT A JAIL.
Good morning…64 degrees in Havre de Grace…richiec is still not allowed near the marina..rathernotsay is stil blibbering the city administrations propaganda . The ladies spent fri nite on the corner and the corner is blocked.
Go Dagger !
Rather….admitt it…your part of the administration…..trying to steer people of good concious away from commention their feelings on an issue.
Just tell us who you are instead of hiding behind a screen name…you seem to have the inside line…the true info on our govt…..the truth straite from the king.
Rathernotsay..since you are so versed in the inner workings of our city rulership…tell the good readers what actual proof besides sniping as you like to do , exists in the reasoning to not renew my lease….in fact they wont even admitt at this time that they didnt renew it…they like the phrase…”we didnt offer it”…but the published city policey states”all lease holders will have their leases automaticly renewed”…hence it was a throwing out of the marina on nothing but RATHERNOTSAY ish propoganda and unproven allegations…
Rathernot say…give us some facts ! Not horsecrap….yuou wonder why dougherty get shabooed when I enter a room…its cause I am BULLSHIT REPELLANT…get over it man…that marina stuff was a one trick poney…everyone knows what he did…and you cheerlead.
Rathernot…you seem to think people are stupid and void of concious…some are and although you may be…most arnt and will quitley do what is right given the chance…..Rather you have a lot to learn.
Go Dagger
Tadays project…make petition and dont forget to use spell checker.
firefighterkrs - first off, my com