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	<title>Comments on: Havre de Grace&#8217;s Decision To Cut Greenway Funding Could Be Costly</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/</link>
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		<title>By: Museum Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-24385</link>
		<dc:creator>Museum Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 21:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-24385</guid>
		<description>To be fair, Allen Fair does not draw a salary from either the LSHG or the Heritage Trail group.  And while Allen lives comfortably because of his business successes in Havre de Grace, he is also a very generous but quiet philantropist. In this little &quot;adventure&quot; Allen is certainly NOT at fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, Allen Fair does not draw a salary from either the LSHG or the Heritage Trail group.  And while Allen lives comfortably because of his business successes in Havre de Grace, he is also a very generous but quiet philantropist. In this little &#8220;adventure&#8221; Allen is certainly NOT at fault.</p>
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		<title>By: RichieC</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-24074</link>
		<dc:creator>RichieC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-24074</guid>
		<description>I would like to see the amounts paid to the directors and executives at the LSHT.
See exactly where our money goes.

Go Dagger !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to see the amounts paid to the directors and executives at the LSHT.<br />
See exactly where our money goes.</p>
<p>Go Dagger !</p>
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		<title>By: RichieC</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-24072</link>
		<dc:creator>RichieC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 17:43:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-24072</guid>
		<description>In the council meeting this week Allen Fair...the owner of many of the buildings in HDG and the same guy who seems to think , based upon his own words, that parts of HDG are inhabited by low lives stated.....&quot;if the city doesn&#039;t re-instate the 12 grand ill pay it myself &quot;!

What Mr Fair forgot to mention is that he&#039;s the president of the heritage trail and that money would go to operating expenses...in other words...HIS OWN SALREY !

Heritage trail...a piece of advice....stop digging the hole your digging into !

Go Dagger !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the council meeting this week Allen Fair&#8230;the owner of many of the buildings in HDG and the same guy who seems to think , based upon his own words, that parts of HDG are inhabited by low lives stated&#8230;..&#8221;if the city doesn&#8217;t re-instate the 12 grand ill pay it myself &#8220;!</p>
<p>What Mr Fair forgot to mention is that he&#8217;s the president of the heritage trail and that money would go to operating expenses&#8230;in other words&#8230;HIS OWN SALREY !</p>
<p>Heritage trail&#8230;a piece of advice&#8230;.stop digging the hole your digging into !</p>
<p>Go Dagger !</p>
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		<title>By: Museum Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-23510</link>
		<dc:creator>Museum Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-23510</guid>
		<description>Anybody have a figure on how much $$ in grant money each jurisdiction has received over the past year, 5 years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anybody have a figure on how much $$ in grant money each jurisdiction has received over the past year, 5 years?</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-23482</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-23482</guid>
		<description>$3000 and $0 respectively as far as I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$3000 and $0 respectively as far as I know.</p>
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		<title>By: Museum Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-23479</link>
		<dc:creator>Museum Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 03:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-23479</guid>
		<description>Oh, au contraire, Common Knowledge! There was some serious switcharooing with the money for that pier. LSHG partnered with the city to get funding. Money doesn&#039;t ever come &quot;FROM&quot; LSHG, it comes &quot;THROUGH&quot; the LSHG. The organization is an advocacy and clearinghouse for funding. So, you&#039;re right that it was DNR money that paid for most of the pier, but it came in via LSHG. 

Cole Data, according to the info from the Skipjack and Lantern Queen folks, the boats draw about 4.5 feet. The Skipjack will not even attempt to dock at the new pier. The Lantern Queen has docked there on several occasions, but has to pull in headed south (toward the yacht basin) and then back out the same direction it came, because of the shoaling on the right (south) side of the pier. Also, the LQ folks said that the only reason they can use that pier at all is the versatile winched gangway that they can pivot at almost any angle. I know I saw it docked there during the launch of the smart buoy and the gangway ramp was at such a crazy angle that they had a crew member helping people aboard. 

The GREENWAY

From LSHG&#039;s own website: &quot;The Lower Susquehanna Heritage Greenway (LSHG) is a non-profit organization whose mission is to stimulate local economic activity by developing a linkage between our natural, historic and cultural resources. This linkage is a series of land and water recreational trails that weave our past into our future while promoting an understanding and appreciation for the character of this region.

As part of a statewide system of Heritage Areas, the LSHG is responsible for implementing a local management plan targeting our waterfront communities. Our 40 million dollar business plan is designed to be a catalyst for capital investment; therefore we are building the public / private partnerships necessary for regional revitalization.&quot;

Seems to me that to be effective both counties and the various towns/cities bordering the greenway need to learn to play together and help promote the whole area. Does anyone know how much Perryville or Port Deposit gives to LSHG?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, au contraire, Common Knowledge! There was some serious switcharooing with the money for that pier. LSHG partnered with the city to get funding. Money doesn&#8217;t ever come &#8220;FROM&#8221; LSHG, it comes &#8220;THROUGH&#8221; the LSHG. The organization is an advocacy and clearinghouse for funding. So, you&#8217;re right that it was DNR money that paid for most of the pier, but it came in via LSHG. </p>
<p>Cole Data, according to the info from the Skipjack and Lantern Queen folks, the boats draw about 4.5 feet. The Skipjack will not even attempt to dock at the new pier. The Lantern Queen has docked there on several occasions, but has to pull in headed south (toward the yacht basin) and then back out the same direction it came, because of the shoaling on the right (south) side of the pier. Also, the LQ folks said that the only reason they can use that pier at all is the versatile winched gangway that they can pivot at almost any angle. I know I saw it docked there during the launch of the smart buoy and the gangway ramp was at such a crazy angle that they had a crew member helping people aboard. </p>
<p>The GREENWAY</p>
<p>From LSHG&#8217;s own website: &#8220;The Lower Susquehanna Heritage Greenway (LSHG) is a non-profit organization whose mission is to stimulate local economic activity by developing a linkage between our natural, historic and cultural resources. This linkage is a series of land and water recreational trails that weave our past into our future while promoting an understanding and appreciation for the character of this region.</p>
<p>As part of a statewide system of Heritage Areas, the LSHG is responsible for implementing a local management plan targeting our waterfront communities. Our 40 million dollar business plan is designed to be a catalyst for capital investment; therefore we are building the public / private partnerships necessary for regional revitalization.&#8221;</p>
<p>Seems to me that to be effective both counties and the various towns/cities bordering the greenway need to learn to play together and help promote the whole area. Does anyone know how much Perryville or Port Deposit gives to LSHG?</p>
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		<title>By: Common Knowledge</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-23366</link>
		<dc:creator>Common Knowledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-23366</guid>
		<description>Museum Friend and Coledata:
The LSHG did not pay for the new transient pier at the Lighthouse.  They had nothing to do with it.  That was mostly paid for by the DNR.  And as far as the location goes......that was Fraley&#039;s decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Museum Friend and Coledata:<br />
The LSHG did not pay for the new transient pier at the Lighthouse.  They had nothing to do with it.  That was mostly paid for by the DNR.  And as far as the location goes&#8230;&#8230;that was Fraley&#8217;s decision.</p>
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		<title>By: RichieC</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-23328</link>
		<dc:creator>RichieC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 08:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-23328</guid>
		<description>There is a tide of information behind the scenes.  This is a play for power and control.  I&#039;m as upset as ever at the tone of Mary Ann&#039;s letter and its  threat to our institutions.

As always local knows local and bureaucracy looks down on local as subordanate.  I support local control of local issues.

This issue can be as destructive to the TRAIL as to the Museums if a solution to the grievances on both ends are not found.  This cannot be a dictatorship.

Go Dagger !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a tide of information behind the scenes.  This is a play for power and control.  I&#8217;m as upset as ever at the tone of Mary Ann&#8217;s letter and its  threat to our institutions.</p>
<p>As always local knows local and bureaucracy looks down on local as subordanate.  I support local control of local issues.</p>
<p>This issue can be as destructive to the TRAIL as to the Museums if a solution to the grievances on both ends are not found.  This cannot be a dictatorship.</p>
<p>Go Dagger !</p>
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		<title>By: Coledata</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-23326</link>
		<dc:creator>Coledata</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-23326</guid>
		<description>I totally endorse Museum Friends sentiments, but I would question who made the decision over the white elephant known as the “new” public pier near the light house in Havre de Grace. 

There has never been enough water depth at that point to service anything with a draft of more than 4&#039;, and that is probably on a high tide. At one point, back in unrecorded history I believe there were buildings about where the curent pier is.

 Creating a fixed as opposed to a floating pier created an almost useless piece of heavyweight grant money. However, I would really like to know who made the original decision to even place a pier at that particular point. Somehow I suspect the City of making this decision, probably advised by the DNR and the Corps of Engineers who are extremely vigilant about protecting the grasses that foul all our boats. The Town of Port Deposit was forced to jump though many hoops to get a pier built, and still only have temporary permission to have a floating pier (about 14 days in any year) off the marina park,

I believe the new pier was moved about 40&#039; south from the original floating dock just off the lighthouse because there is a particularly barren spot there. Unfortunately it is built on a shoal, and therefore, even in a small power boat, extreme caution must be taken when approaching. It was evident even during the construction of the pier that there were problems as the construction barge could oftem be seen to be aground. No-one ever said anything because everyone assumed there would be a dredging exercise to make the pier usable. (Both The Martha Lewis and the Lantern Queen draw about 3&#039;6&quot;, but have to be extremely careful as, as licensed passenger vessels, any grounding has to be reported to the Coast Guard, and the vessel will need to be hauled and inspected before it can be returned to service.)

As a matter of interest, just to the north of the pier was an old slipway for a shipyard, back in the days when HdG built ships to fight the British. Similarly, just to the south of the maritime museum there was another slipway, in the cove that is almost totally silted over. The vessels constructed in those days as privateers had a draft of around 2 fathoms (6 feet) and there therfore had to be about 9&#039; depth to successfully launch a boat.

I guess the upshot proves the old addge of &quot;too many cooks&quot; to be true. By the time the various federal agencies, USCG , EPA and the Corps of Engineers have all had a toe in the water, the State will come along with the DNR, The Maryland Department of the Environment, and the Maryland Environmental Service has all had their say, there is so much silt in the water that the whole project gets driven aground.

Thank the Lord for small government! Well - you will, if ever you see it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally endorse Museum Friends sentiments, but I would question who made the decision over the white elephant known as the “new” public pier near the light house in Havre de Grace. </p>
<p>There has never been enough water depth at that point to service anything with a draft of more than 4&#8242;, and that is probably on a high tide. At one point, back in unrecorded history I believe there were buildings about where the curent pier is.</p>
<p> Creating a fixed as opposed to a floating pier created an almost useless piece of heavyweight grant money. However, I would really like to know who made the original decision to even place a pier at that particular point. Somehow I suspect the City of making this decision, probably advised by the DNR and the Corps of Engineers who are extremely vigilant about protecting the grasses that foul all our boats. The Town of Port Deposit was forced to jump though many hoops to get a pier built, and still only have temporary permission to have a floating pier (about 14 days in any year) off the marina park,</p>
<p>I believe the new pier was moved about 40&#8242; south from the original floating dock just off the lighthouse because there is a particularly barren spot there. Unfortunately it is built on a shoal, and therefore, even in a small power boat, extreme caution must be taken when approaching. It was evident even during the construction of the pier that there were problems as the construction barge could oftem be seen to be aground. No-one ever said anything because everyone assumed there would be a dredging exercise to make the pier usable. (Both The Martha Lewis and the Lantern Queen draw about 3&#8242;6&#8243;, but have to be extremely careful as, as licensed passenger vessels, any grounding has to be reported to the Coast Guard, and the vessel will need to be hauled and inspected before it can be returned to service.)</p>
<p>As a matter of interest, just to the north of the pier was an old slipway for a shipyard, back in the days when HdG built ships to fight the British. Similarly, just to the south of the maritime museum there was another slipway, in the cove that is almost totally silted over. The vessels constructed in those days as privateers had a draft of around 2 fathoms (6 feet) and there therfore had to be about 9&#8242; depth to successfully launch a boat.</p>
<p>I guess the upshot proves the old addge of &#8220;too many cooks&#8221; to be true. By the time the various federal agencies, USCG , EPA and the Corps of Engineers have all had a toe in the water, the State will come along with the DNR, The Maryland Department of the Environment, and the Maryland Environmental Service has all had their say, there is so much silt in the water that the whole project gets driven aground.</p>
<p>Thank the Lord for small government! Well &#8211; you will, if ever you see it!</p>
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		<title>By: Museum Friend</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/24/havre-de-graces-decision-to-cut-greenway-funding-could-be-costly/#comment-23324</link>
		<dc:creator>Museum Friend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 02:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5426#comment-23324</guid>
		<description>You all need to understand that the LSHG is the federal conduit for funds. The LSHG represents the plans of the federal government to develop the greenway as heritage and recreation areas. So, the LSHG collects grants from the various groups of the greenway. (These may include govt. entities like HdG govt., or non-profits like a museum.) Ms. Lisanti, as Exec. Director, reviews the grant applications and then chooses the viable (and fundable) ones to include in her funding request. 

Some of the most recent grants have been spent on questionable projects. For instance, consider the &quot;new&quot; public pier near the light house in Havre de Grace. Virtually no boaters can use it. It&#039;s way too tall for most pleasure boaters. I asked the skippers of the bigger boats (Skipjack Martha Lewis &amp; Lantern Queen) why they don&#039;t use it. Turns out Havre de Grace built that great long pier (with LSHG money)  without making sure there  the water at the end of it was of adequate depth for the boats it was designed for, or that the pier was low enough for pleasure boats. A true cluster ****.  

At lest one organization has submitted grant proposals to LSHG for more than 10 years without ever getting one funded. 

And Don, remember something about the local museums. They&#039;re all housed in buildings/property that belong to the city. If they go under, the city has to keep them up. And because there have been grants from the state historic trust, there were agreements w/liens signed that guarantee those properties will be held as museums and &quot;kept up&quot; for posterity. The city can&#039;t use them for anything else! So, it&#039;s in the best interest of the city for those museum non-profits to make a go of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You all need to understand that the LSHG is the federal conduit for funds. The LSHG represents the plans of the federal government to develop the greenway as heritage and recreation areas. So, the LSHG collects grants from the various groups of the greenway. (These may include govt. entities like HdG govt., or non-profits like a museum.) Ms. Lisanti, as Exec. Director, reviews the grant applications and then chooses the viable (and fundable) ones to include in her funding request. </p>
<p>Some of the most recent grants have been spent on questionable projects. For instance, consider the &#8220;new&#8221; public pier near the light house in Havre de Grace. Virtually no boaters can use it. It&#8217;s way too tall for most pleasure boaters. I asked the skippers of the bigger boats (Skipjack Martha Lewis &amp; Lantern Queen) why they don&#8217;t use it. Turns out Havre de Grace built that great long pier (with LSHG money)  without making sure there  the water at the end of it was of adequate depth for the boats it was designed for, or that the pier was low enough for pleasure boats. A true cluster ****.  </p>
<p>At lest one organization has submitted grant proposals to LSHG for more than 10 years without ever getting one funded. </p>
<p>And Don, remember something about the local museums. They&#8217;re all housed in buildings/property that belong to the city. If they go under, the city has to keep them up. And because there have been grants from the state historic trust, there were agreements w/liens signed that guarantee those properties will be held as museums and &#8220;kept up&#8221; for posterity. The city can&#8217;t use them for anything else! So, it&#8217;s in the best interest of the city for those museum non-profits to make a go of it.</p>
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