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	<title>Comments on: No COLA, No Step For Teachers In Contract Settlement</title>
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	<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/</link>
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		<title>By: Cdev</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24907</link>
		<dc:creator>Cdev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 04:25:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24907</guid>
		<description>Rocco you have not been engadged in teacher bashing but a few points.

1) There is no &quot;union&quot; only an association.  It may seem like words but it is actually a big difference in Maryland.  

2) The current climate is correct but when that climate was not the problem Harford did little to improve it&#039;s circumstance or be competitive in pay.  The State offered to match 5% increases for 3 years for all jurisdictions in MD about 7-8 years ago.  Harford County did not seem to take full advantage of that.

3) When you keep the budget the same and cost of buisness goes up (as it has) you essentially cut the money in the classroom.  You will get poor results.

4) Last year when asked HCPS gave back 5% of the budget.  They did not have to!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rocco you have not been engadged in teacher bashing but a few points.</p>
<p>1) There is no &#8220;union&#8221; only an association.  It may seem like words but it is actually a big difference in Maryland.  </p>
<p>2) The current climate is correct but when that climate was not the problem Harford did little to improve it&#8217;s circumstance or be competitive in pay.  The State offered to match 5% increases for 3 years for all jurisdictions in MD about 7-8 years ago.  Harford County did not seem to take full advantage of that.</p>
<p>3) When you keep the budget the same and cost of buisness goes up (as it has) you essentially cut the money in the classroom.  You will get poor results.</p>
<p>4) Last year when asked HCPS gave back 5% of the budget.  They did not have to!</p>
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		<title>By: rocco2009</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24902</link>
		<dc:creator>rocco2009</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24902</guid>
		<description>the problem seems to be that the teachers union, teachers and the school establishment, keeps demanding more and more funds to provide the same service and results year after year.  I have already said that most students graduate with knowldegeable minds and competent skills.

The school system is bloated and full of bureaucrats that don&#039;t know that in the real world people can&#039;t get raises during an economic downturn.  the national economy is in shambles, local industry is suffering and there are not enough tax funds to just support the school system.  Harford county spends almost half or 50% of its tax revenue in the school system!!!!.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the problem seems to be that the teachers union, teachers and the school establishment, keeps demanding more and more funds to provide the same service and results year after year.  I have already said that most students graduate with knowldegeable minds and competent skills.</p>
<p>The school system is bloated and full of bureaucrats that don&#8217;t know that in the real world people can&#8217;t get raises during an economic downturn.  the national economy is in shambles, local industry is suffering and there are not enough tax funds to just support the school system.  Harford county spends almost half or 50% of its tax revenue in the school system!!!!.</p>
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		<title>By: Cdev</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24900</link>
		<dc:creator>Cdev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 02:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24900</guid>
		<description>Look money is not the total answer; but it is a large factor in the equation.  You can not pay for lanoliam and expect marble floor results!  You have to put money in it.  On a state level we are putting very little in and getting semi decent results unlike Baltimore City and PG put in a lot and are not getting the same product.  Although we could get into reasons why they would have to spend more based on the population they teach. 

If we looked at comparable demographic systems (size and socio-economic) in this state and how much they spend and test results we are failing and they spend more and get better results.  You can not compare HCPS to Baltimore City, PG, Chicago, Los Angles Unified.  We are not in the same boat you should instead look at Worchester, Anne Arundel, York, Some of the up state New York multi-high school districts.  We spend less then them and our results are not as good.  

I am not saying all the money should go into teacher compensation, instead right into the classroom on resources to better help teacher&#039;s do their job and keep the student&#039;s interested in the subject matter!  There are countless studies out there that show manipulatives make a large difference in learning outcomes.  Those cost money and money is what we do not spend.  We low bid contracts and make it more difficult to do something that should be easier when for a little bit more it would be easier, would leave teacher&#039;s with more TIME and feel RESPECTED, and as a result would make an impact on the students (REGANOMICS OF EDUCATION)!  So funding is indeed related to test scores; maybe not directly because like my floor example if you buy Marble and get a crappy installer you get a crappy Marble floor.  

If you want the good installer you need to pay them a little more then the crappy guy.  Look around us.  We have a lower scale then Baltimore County and Baltimore City.  If we want to attract good teachers and not, just local ones who are drawn to come back, we need to be competitive.  We are at a disadvantage to the fact the PA retirement system is so great so that even a little less pay goes a long way in what it makes up.  But when we are paying the same as these districts with the slightly lower quality MSRPP then we need to look at our scale and say what incentive is there for GREAT teachers to relocate to Harford County, MD.  The young ones leaving the PA teacher mills want to go back to PA eventually, and do so after a few years when those jobs open up.  My wife had a friend who came from there and interviewed for 5 years to get a job up there.  Each interview she was one of 25 candidates for a single position.  When she was a finalist she faced tough scrutiny but left HCPS after 10 years here to start over in the PA retirment system because they treat teachers well. Sadly she is not an exception but a rule!

With that going on right over the border and two places offering higher salaries not that far away what incentive do we offer for the BEST teachers to come and stay in HCPS.  We are hoping to get good teachers fresh out of college from some candidates who are to dumb to do their homework and look around so they take their first offer or the cast offs from PA, Baltimore County and in some cases Baltimore City.  Some times those teachers work out and some of them bloosom and become GREAT teachers but many of them sadly do not and leave the profession on their own or worst of all hang in there.  The kids get hurt in the long run.  We will always have the HCPS alumni crowd and some of them are great teachers but sadly some of them are not as well.  Some of the great ones leave and go were the money is better.  You talk about free market and not spending money on schools.  Well there is some free market capatilism in HR for teachers for you.  MD does not graduate enough teachers from it&#039;s own colleges to fill the classroom vacancies.  We are dependent on cast offs from states like PA, WV, NY.  

So if you want the high quality marble floor.  You need to pony up and pay for a good installer and good marble to get a GREAT looking floor!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look money is not the total answer; but it is a large factor in the equation.  You can not pay for lanoliam and expect marble floor results!  You have to put money in it.  On a state level we are putting very little in and getting semi decent results unlike Baltimore City and PG put in a lot and are not getting the same product.  Although we could get into reasons why they would have to spend more based on the population they teach. </p>
<p>If we looked at comparable demographic systems (size and socio-economic) in this state and how much they spend and test results we are failing and they spend more and get better results.  You can not compare HCPS to Baltimore City, PG, Chicago, Los Angles Unified.  We are not in the same boat you should instead look at Worchester, Anne Arundel, York, Some of the up state New York multi-high school districts.  We spend less then them and our results are not as good.  </p>
<p>I am not saying all the money should go into teacher compensation, instead right into the classroom on resources to better help teacher&#8217;s do their job and keep the student&#8217;s interested in the subject matter!  There are countless studies out there that show manipulatives make a large difference in learning outcomes.  Those cost money and money is what we do not spend.  We low bid contracts and make it more difficult to do something that should be easier when for a little bit more it would be easier, would leave teacher&#8217;s with more TIME and feel RESPECTED, and as a result would make an impact on the students (REGANOMICS OF EDUCATION)!  So funding is indeed related to test scores; maybe not directly because like my floor example if you buy Marble and get a crappy installer you get a crappy Marble floor.  </p>
<p>If you want the good installer you need to pay them a little more then the crappy guy.  Look around us.  We have a lower scale then Baltimore County and Baltimore City.  If we want to attract good teachers and not, just local ones who are drawn to come back, we need to be competitive.  We are at a disadvantage to the fact the PA retirement system is so great so that even a little less pay goes a long way in what it makes up.  But when we are paying the same as these districts with the slightly lower quality MSRPP then we need to look at our scale and say what incentive is there for GREAT teachers to relocate to Harford County, MD.  The young ones leaving the PA teacher mills want to go back to PA eventually, and do so after a few years when those jobs open up.  My wife had a friend who came from there and interviewed for 5 years to get a job up there.  Each interview she was one of 25 candidates for a single position.  When she was a finalist she faced tough scrutiny but left HCPS after 10 years here to start over in the PA retirment system because they treat teachers well. Sadly she is not an exception but a rule!</p>
<p>With that going on right over the border and two places offering higher salaries not that far away what incentive do we offer for the BEST teachers to come and stay in HCPS.  We are hoping to get good teachers fresh out of college from some candidates who are to dumb to do their homework and look around so they take their first offer or the cast offs from PA, Baltimore County and in some cases Baltimore City.  Some times those teachers work out and some of them bloosom and become GREAT teachers but many of them sadly do not and leave the profession on their own or worst of all hang in there.  The kids get hurt in the long run.  We will always have the HCPS alumni crowd and some of them are great teachers but sadly some of them are not as well.  Some of the great ones leave and go were the money is better.  You talk about free market and not spending money on schools.  Well there is some free market capatilism in HR for teachers for you.  MD does not graduate enough teachers from it&#8217;s own colleges to fill the classroom vacancies.  We are dependent on cast offs from states like PA, WV, NY.  </p>
<p>So if you want the high quality marble floor.  You need to pony up and pay for a good installer and good marble to get a GREAT looking floor!</p>
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		<title>By: Not from Here</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24896</link>
		<dc:creator>Not from Here</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 22:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24896</guid>
		<description>Other countries also test at each level and students move on to other options that are not academic in nature if they don&#039;t score high enough.  We let students move through the system and give them adult assistants and they graduate from high school.  Some of them probably look pretty good on paper.  Then, if they want, they can enroll in a college that has open admissions.  Think how much higher our scores would be if only qualifying students took the test.

Comparing to other countries is not always relevant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other countries also test at each level and students move on to other options that are not academic in nature if they don&#8217;t score high enough.  We let students move through the system and give them adult assistants and they graduate from high school.  Some of them probably look pretty good on paper.  Then, if they want, they can enroll in a college that has open admissions.  Think how much higher our scores would be if only qualifying students took the test.</p>
<p>Comparing to other countries is not always relevant.</p>
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		<title>By: The Communicator</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24895</link>
		<dc:creator>The Communicator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24895</guid>
		<description>Cdev - There is absolutely no correlation between spending per student and academic success.  Ths has been proven time and time again in many school jurisdictions across the country.  Not to mention in foreign countries where the spending per student is a fraction of what it is in the U.S. but the foreign students consistently out perform U.S. students on standardized testing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cdev &#8211; There is absolutely no correlation between spending per student and academic success.  Ths has been proven time and time again in many school jurisdictions across the country.  Not to mention in foreign countries where the spending per student is a fraction of what it is in the U.S. but the foreign students consistently out perform U.S. students on standardized testing.</p>
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		<title>By: The Communicator</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24894</link>
		<dc:creator>The Communicator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24894</guid>
		<description>Cdev - There is absolutely no correlation between spending per student and academic success.  Ths has been proven time and time again in many school jurisdictions across the country.  Not to mention in foreign countries where the spending per student is a fraction of what it is in the U.S. but the foreign students consistently out perform U.S. student son standardized testing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cdev &#8211; There is absolutely no correlation between spending per student and academic success.  Ths has been proven time and time again in many school jurisdictions across the country.  Not to mention in foreign countries where the spending per student is a fraction of what it is in the U.S. but the foreign students consistently out perform U.S. student son standardized testing.</p>
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		<title>By: Cdev</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24893</link>
		<dc:creator>Cdev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24893</guid>
		<description>Joe have you looked at the statistics on that?  You probably mistakenly think Baltimore City is the Highest CPP.  It isn&#039;t.  Montgomery county does.  It is the second best results in the state.  Worchester was the best it has one of the highest.  Harford ranks near the bottom in CPP.  We are lucky to rank mid state in test results.  Maybe if we spent more we would get better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe have you looked at the statistics on that?  You probably mistakenly think Baltimore City is the Highest CPP.  It isn&#8217;t.  Montgomery county does.  It is the second best results in the state.  Worchester was the best it has one of the highest.  Harford ranks near the bottom in CPP.  We are lucky to rank mid state in test results.  Maybe if we spent more we would get better.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Yensan</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24888</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Yensan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24888</guid>
		<description>If the dollars spent have any correlation to the quality of the education then we ought to pay teachers today what we did in 1950.  The children still received a quality education back then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the dollars spent have any correlation to the quality of the education then we ought to pay teachers today what we did in 1950.  The children still received a quality education back then.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Caruso</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24885</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Caruso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24885</guid>
		<description>Jl -

If money equals better outcomes in education the highest cost per pupil would yield the best product. It does not.

Joe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jl -</p>
<p>If money equals better outcomes in education the highest cost per pupil would yield the best product. It does not.</p>
<p>Joe</p>
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		<title>By: JL</title>
		<link>http://www.daggerpress.com/2009/06/30/no-cola-no-step-for-teachers-in-contract-settlement/#comment-24882</link>
		<dc:creator>JL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 19:16:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.daggerpress.com/?p=5506#comment-24882</guid>
		<description>I agree with rocco2009 and think it is a ridiculous generalization to say that &quot;kids can&#039;t read or write when they graduate.&quot;  Here&#039;s a solution--pay the teachers even less to fix that problem!!!  Great observation Eyewitness.  Can&#039;t have it both ways at all.  Everyone wants the results, but doesn&#039;t want to chip in to get them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with rocco2009 and think it is a ridiculous generalization to say that &#8220;kids can&#8217;t read or write when they graduate.&#8221;  Here&#8217;s a solution&#8211;pay the teachers even less to fix that problem!!!  Great observation Eyewitness.  Can&#8217;t have it both ways at all.  Everyone wants the results, but doesn&#8217;t want to chip in to get them.</p>
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