Delegate Pat McDonough has officially announced that he will be “testing the waters” for a possible campaign for Governor in 2010. The three term legislator plans to travel around the state, visiting with clubs, community groups, and other organizations to hear their concerns and outline his agenda. The Baltimore and Harford County lawmaker maintains that issues will be the centerpiece of his campaign.
“Maryland is on the road to disaster, spending is out of control, taxes are too high, education is not producing results, crime, gangs, and drugs have taken control of our neighborhoods and our prison system, and illegal immigration has transformed us into a sanctuary state,” Delegate McDonough stated. “We need a new Maryland that attracts jobs, exercises fiscal management, and promotes ‘zero tolerance’ on crime and illegal immigration. In order to achieve this goal, we need new leadership.”
The kick-off issue Delegate McDonough will be emphasizing is what he terms “the 2011 ambush tax.” The radio talk-show host and TV analyst believes that after the 2010 election, if Governor O’Malley is re-elected, he (Gov. O’Malley) and the leaders of the General Assembly will impose a massive tax hike in order to continue their reckless spending.
Delegate McDonough has created the “Taxpayers’ Pledge” where he promises there will be no new taxes. He is asking Governor O’Malley to sign the same pledge. “We desperately need new leadership, a new direction in order to create a new Maryland,” Delegate McDonough concluded.
Testing the waters? I’d like to see what that does to his hair.
HW Bush promised no new taxes and the economy demanded more taxes. He is making a promise he can not keep!
What a joke.
OK….I have stopped laughing and now resorted to crying. To think that this guy will travel the state as a representative of the Republican Party is distasterous.
His candidacy will blow any chance that voters will be taking Maryland Republicans seriously.
Ummm… the Taxpayer’s Pledge was created by Grover Norquist of the Americans for Tax Reform… so I’m glad Pat McDonough is going to “create” it.
McDonough sounds good to me unless you want Maryland to
turn into the Foreign Bankrupt Country of California!
Oh please please please run Del. McDonough… we so need you out of the House of Delegates, and hopefully replaced with somebody with some modicum of open-mindedness (and you have NO chance against O’Malley!).
Owe Malley can’t run again you dipshit!
HCvoter –
What would you like McDonough to be open minded about?
Joe
This is going to be interesting. As a Democrat, I can’t wait for him to run. I am looking forward to having a few laughs.
I would rather laugh under McDonough than continue to cry under O’Malley.
i hope he tests the waters, as you speak of…in the deep end of the pool with a cinder block around his greasey neck
All because he couldn’t hold his ‘Speak English’ signs at the Bel Air 4th of July Parade.
Ryan –
What does the suppression of free speech at the Bel Air Independence Day Parade have to do with McDonough’s run for governor?
The “Speak English” issue is important and I see nothing wrong with McDonough’s push for English as the official language of the State of Maryland.
Joe
P.S. Comic relief http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxuEBUXJ2rQ
Uh…Why is it important, exactly?
Ryan –
You seem to oppose McDonough’s “Speak English” position and his right to carry the signs in the parade?
Joe
Maybe not so much his right, just his judgment. Why would we want someone like that representing us?
Well I think we are better off with an elected official that believes and stands up for constitutional rights especially since the parade matter was a suppression of not only parade participants, but also spectators.
Well I think we are better off with an elected official that believes in and stands up for constitutional rights especially since the parade matter was a suppression of not only parade participants, but also spectators.
Not going to debate the whole parade thing over again (he signed a contract and broke it), but I’m more interested in why he runs on a one-issue platform that places on issues of race/bigotry.
I meant “plays on issues of race/bigotry.”
Dave writes – “plays on issues of race/bigotry.”
Excuse me what race and bigotry are you talking about? How dare you anonymously attack someone in such a despicable manner.
English is already the official language of 28 states in the United States and the issue has nothing to do with race or bigotry.
Joe
Joe,
See my post below. Don’t feign outrage.
Dave –
Your statements racism and bigotry are outrageous and inflammatory, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Joe
Outrageous statements founded this country. Dave has the Constitutional right to say them. I thought you support the Constitution? Or is that right reserved for the people you agree with?
Again, I ask: Why is it important that everyone only speak English?
I am not being facetious. Convince me of why I should support a “Speak English” policy. Lay out the argument.
To Ryan: There’s no argument to lay out and nobody needs to try to convince you of anything.
The fact is that nobody said everyone should ONLY speak English.
Some of us think that immigrants should attempt to assimilate into American society by learning English. Nobody is proposing that we should force immigrants to abandon their native language.
Yes, but why? Why does it matter if they speak English or not? I guess I just don’t get it…
Is it just an assimilation thing? If that’s the case, why stop at speak English? Should we force everyone to vote? An undoubtedly American act, but not a requirement to be considered an American.
ke!
Cdev
The right to free speech does not mean that your speech is free from question and/or criticism. If someone makes the statement that “Speak English” plays on racism and bigotry, they should have to explain that statement. Because just implying racism, with no basis in fact, allows opponents to shroud an issue in racism. Making anyone who argues against them a “bigot”. Joe is attempting to bring the issue above name calling and discuss it in a more intelligent manner. He in no way stepped on Daves rights!
Colin,
You sir, are a “guttersnipe,” and I find it “despicable” and “reprehensible” that you would assert such a thing! “You should be ashamed of yourself” for holding such an “indefensible” position, you “coward.” This is simply “beyond the pale!”
Just kidding of course, but would you like for me to point out some of the other words/phrases Joe likes to use, that one could reasonably consider name-calling? These are all examples from this post alone…
Sorry for poking a little fun, Joe, but what goes around comes around, I guess.
Colin I am not saying he is free from criticisim but Joe clearly is not willing to tolerate a different opinion. Dave is entitled to that right!
Run Pat Run!!! This is the best thing that could happen to the people of Maryland. Pat is not effective in the legislature, but would be a force in an executive capacity. If the Governor’s race does not work out, please run for Baltimore County Executive.
I must say that Maryland politics continue to become more and more interesting 2010 is right around the corner and finally the citizens are paying much more attention as well as business owners.
For the past two years, I have had the pleasure of being a weekly guest on the Ed Norris Show & have had Delegate Mc Donough join in on our topic of the day.
Although I may not always agree with Delegate Mc Donough, he certainly is passionate about his view of the direction of the State as well as Harford and Baltimore County.
He is not afraid to address issues that most are to timid, illegal immigration BG&E & the largest tax increase in the Sates history in the worst recession since the great depression
We are living in a time when we are initiated with nothing but negative news but here in Harford County there are many positive things going on and much greater opportunity than other areas throughout the country.
I have never been real good at testing the water but would rather just dive in. I plan on running for higher office in 2010 I have truly enjoyed serving on the Bel Air Board of Commissioners but feel that I am ready for even more of a challenge .
Thank you goes out to the Dagger for considering me for almost every elected office excluding dogcatcher and I guess Delegate Mc Donough beat me to the gubernatorial race perhaps he will consider me as Lieutenant Governor (only if I don’t walk in the Bel Air 4th of July parade)
As a resident of Bel Air, I welcome your quest for higher office, just as the citizens of Baltimore looked forward to O’Malley departing for Annapolis.
Another faceless brainless spineless soul
Please enlighten us to who you think is worthy as an elected official and why ,if you truly are a Town resident then you would love my voting record.
Mr. Joseph Caruso we can agree to disagree although I have respect for you and your comments because you address issues and policy unlike the weasel brigade,
Terry –
Thank you for your kind comments, however I think you should rethink the Blum Independence Day Parade debacle, it would be a wise consideration.
Joe
To the person using the name ‘Terence O. Hanley’ on the Dagger:
The real Mr. Hanley will be very upset to see someone posting such juvenile responses using his name. You should consider following the generally recognized Internet custom of posting under a nickname rather than that of another person.
I remember a ‘famous’ politician quoted in the Aegis saying, “It’s what the people want”. You know, like the fountain in the middle of Main Street, the renovations at Rockfield Manor that would cost several hundred thousand dollars, the continued use of an cramped, outdated, probably code-violating town hall/police department… Well, nobody ever asked me about those issues (or any other ones, either).
Of course, this is the same politican who implied that Bob Chance should get special treatment for his pot and mushroom bust because of all the wonderful things he did for the community. Thank God Joe Cassilly knows that the law applies to everybody equally.
At least we now know why Bob ‘sees’ Bigfoot… as if there was ever any doubt.
Phil Dirt, King Weasel
Mr. Phil Dirt King Weasel you are again incorrect and blabbering more misinformed information.
My fellow Commissioners or myself never supported or endorsed at fountain in the middle of Main Street besides that was a State Highway project.(Wrong again)
Rockfield Manor is self funded and cost the tax payers very little ,lets see have a nice place for Town Residences or even Harford County residence to have social gathering plus preserve open space in the Town (The Rockfield Foundation, Inc. is a non-profit corporation, incorporated under the laws of Maryland. It is managed by a volunteer Board of Directors to promote and operate Rockfield Manor for the benefit of the Bel Air community) (Wrong again)
Expansion of Town Hall at a cost of FIVE MILLION DOLLARS last week Congressman Kratovil made a vist to Town hall in Bel Air myself and my fellow Commissioners greeted the freshman Congressman at the door and the first words from the Congressman were, My what a beautiful building for such a small town the look on my colleges faces PRICELESS.
Bel Air has just over 3500 households and approximately 10,000 residents divide five million into those numbers also there is no consolidation if you need a building permit or use and occupancy you still need to drive down 22 to DPW. This project does not benefit the residence one bit besides Town Hall belongs on Main Street. (With a fountain in the front.)
Once someone is arrested, they are transported to the newly expanded Detention center that was a muilt million-dollar project.
Perhaps you are ok with the bureaucrats completing this expansion but if you had a clue as to what happen in Aberdeen and Havre De Grace after there new Governmental palaces were completed how about a increase in there Municipal taxes. (Wrong again)
My comment in reference to Bob Chance stands he has dedicated his life to making this County a better place although he is not perfect and has made mistakes he is not a low life slug.
It takes courage to get involved in your community at any level be it in volunteering with Parks and Recreation ,serving in your church at school in any facet the list is way to long we are very luck to have so many involved families & citizens and that clearly is the main reason this is a great place to live.
My final words for you Mr. Phil Dirt King Weasel is that this coming November there is a Town election I think that you should put your name on the ballet to help make Bel Air a better place
In addition, please if you ever need any information I am in the phone book and would be very happy to bring you up to speed with FACTS you never know I might support you for this up coming election.
Terry –
You are truly likable and I’ve enjoyed every encounter I’ve had with you, however I am disappointed that you have come out against McDonough, Impallaria, Wright and regular folks that had their expression of speech suppressed by Mr, Blum et al at this year’s Bel Air Independence Day Parade.
My recommendation to you is to reconsider your position on this matter.
Joe
For people that support McDonough… how can you both be against O’Malley/Obama’s increase in government run healthcare, when Pat McDonough voted to increase medicaid eligibility because as he said “it is the right thing to do” at the same time Maryland was increasing taxes by the largest amount in history? McDonough voted with O’Malley to explode the budget by $600 million… that’s not the type of leadership I want.
To: Terence Hanley
The reason that you are listed on almost every office as a potential candidate is that you have talked about running for every office but dogcatcher. If there was such an office, I am sure you would have bragged about running for it as well. It is not a compliment or attempt at flattery that you are listed so many times. If you do run, I suggest that you stop talking out of both sides of your mouth. I know for a fact that you have told people one thing and then gone to the other side of the room and told other people the opposite. I also find it interesting that you come on to the Dagger to say something nice about McDonough after you have trashed him in the press. Good luck with all that. Seeing you stand up to the likes of McDonough and Impallaria actually made me start to think a bit more highly of you. But, in the politicain/used car salesman way, you are already backpeddling. McDonough has always been in politics for his ego and you are exactly the same.
Well put!
Here Here!
Unfaithful let me start by addressing the fact that someone who would make negative comments not using there real identity is a weasel.
Your allegations in reference to me saying two different things to different groups in the same room are laughable as I am sure anyone who associates with the likes of you is also a weasel.
Clearly, you may not be able to read as well if you call my comments regarding the 4th of July parade as trashing Delegate Mc Donough truly reiterates that you are a weasel and have no backbone.
Let me enlighten you, the rules of the parade THE PARADE IS A NON-SECTARIAN, NON-PARTISAN EVENT. I believe that there are much more important issues than need to be addressed.
I will give you one thing you are correct about, my ego I was the Most successful used car salesman in the state .
Terry writes – “Let me enlighten you, the rules of the parade THE PARADE IS A NON-SECTARIAN, NON-PARTISAN EVENT. I believe that there are much more important issues than need to be addressed.”
The facts of the matter do not bear out your enlightenment. The parade rules are ambiguous at best and certainly do not cover spectators. Mr. Blum exceeded his authority, the police would not intervene at Mr. Blum’s request, Mr. Blum overreached and in doing so suppressed the speech of others. Mr. Blum’s actions are reprehensible and indefensible.
Terry I still like you, we simply disagree on this matter.
Joe
McDonough promotes himself on one issue: “Speak English.” This plays on racist fears and he certainly knows it, which is why he does it.
Is there an epidemic of people causing problems in his district because they don’t speak English? Is this anywhere in the top ten problems facing his district? If not, why is this the one he chooses to focus on? Because it gets him votes from others who share the same bigoted feelings.
It is clear to many enlightened people what he really means is “Sound White” and that is why it is so offensive.
Mr. McDonough’s use of the Bel Air 4th parade to gain publicity for himself makes more sense in light of his consideration of running for Governor. It is a means to an end. Sad.
Tami writes – “It is clear to many enlightened people what he really means is “Sound White” and that is why it is so offensive.”
Tami, it is beyond the pale, despicable and shameful for you to assert that “Speak English” is equivalent to “Sound White”. Your assertion certainly is not “enlightened” it is however reckless and dishonest.
Joe
Joe,
You like to bring out words like shameful, despicable, reckless, dishonest, etc. when someone brings out an opinion you disagree with. Please tell me, in your opinion, why McDonough insists on campaigning on and carrying signs for the issue of “speaking English.”
Dave –
You Dave are a guttersnipe.
McDonough has promoted legislation to make English Maryland’s official language
Joe
A guttersnipe? I almost had to bring out the dictionary for that one, but I’m pretty sure I get the gist. I feel like I’m in a Monty Python movie or something.
Very well, then. McDonough can promote his legislation to make English the official language in MD. I think that’s silly and a waste of time, but that’s something we can disagree on.
However, the fact that his signs are phrased in the imperative (“Speak English,” as in a command) belies a bit of posturing on his part. It’s like the “Welcome to America, now speak English” signs and bumper stickers some folks like to sport.
Actually, exclamatory “Speak English!” is not necessarily in a command form it depends on one’s choice of inflection.
What is important is McDonough is on the record for promoting legislation to make English Maryland’s official language, which is hardly radical.
Joe
Actually….including the exclamation only adds emphasis to the command…
Inflection is a characteristic of voice and is not applicable when using the written word.
PDC –
When people read phrases they place there own interpretive inflection on what is being read by them, exclamation or not.
So tell me what does “Speak English” say to you?
Joe
Joe,
That’s why so many e-mails and blog posts (and perhaps campaign signs) are misinterpreted…because people can not “read” the subtleties of the language…
In response to your question … What does Speak English say to me:
Del. McDonough’s posters that read “Speak English!” say to me that he is issuing a command that everyone should speak the English language. There are no other words, phrases or slogans on the poster that give a reader any other sense of a subtext behind his message.
That message indicates a sense of intolerance of others differences (cultures and languages) that seems to me to be in direct contrast to the idea of free speech. A concept that seems to be very important to him.
PDC writes – “That message indicates a sense of intolerance of others differences (cultures and languages) that seems to me to be in direct contrast to the idea of free speech. A concept that seems to be very important to him.”
Wow you got all of the above from “Speak English!”! I am flabbergasted. Are you sure it’s not your own bias that has lead you to your conclusion?
Joe
No Joe,
I got “all of the above” from the 30+ posts on this thread plus the 150+ replies from the other two threads on this subject on the site… some of which included Del. McDonough’s own posts…
However I believe that it is certainly reasonable to infer that a sign commanding one to “Speak English!” could cause feelings of resentment from anyone for whom English is not their first language.
It is clearly evident that this entire issue is just an attempt for Pat McDonough to gain some attention. Unfortunately for him I think it just makes him look like a bigot. (i.e. a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.)
Also, Mr. Caruso… After reading your posts for the past few weeks, I’m afraid you may fall into the same category.
Perhaps it is time for you to accept that although you have the right to have your opinion (as well as posting it on an internet blog)….You are not ALWAYS correct….and others have the right to have their own opinions about issues too. Without being dismissed as shameful, despicable, reckless, dishonest, etc.
Your posts do indeed lack inflection and therefore appear to be condescending, dismissive and offensive to anyone who might disagree with you (even just a little bit)
PDC –
Well there is nothing racist or bigoted about promoting the establishment of English as Maryland’s Official Language.
It is possible PDC that you are wrong?
Joe
Certainly Joe, I may be wrong….
You?
PDC –
Not on this matter.
PDC –
Not on this matter.
Or any…I’m sure.
Or any…I’m sure.
Your arrogance is astounding.
PDC –
You have a weak argument and now you resort to insults.
Joe
Calling someone a “Guttersnipe” isn’t an insult.
I guess I’m just taking a page from your book Joe.
Again, your display of self-importance and lack of seeing others views is truly amazing.
PDC It is impossible to have a discussion with Joe. He can only attack the speaker and can not answer the issue. All one can do is ignore him and hope he crawls back under his rock.
I don’t understand the angst over this issue… people that come to America should come to integrate with it’s people and are free to continue to hold their own cultures as well. The Filipino community is a perfect example. When together they gargle at each other in their own dialects (I love following along with what I’ve been able to learn) and teach their children cultural songs and dances. **(shameless plug coming: – join the celebration June 13 @ Towson courthouse for the Filipino Independence Day celebration. Filipino heritage shows, food, etc…)** Sorry about that… Millions of Filipinos live all around the world, and from the all the ones I know, they learn the local language and they don’t insist anyone else cater to them – you’ll never see paper towel dispensers in Italy with instructions in Tagalog. It’s great to hear my friends switch from English to German to Tagalog to Cebuano in minutes. Should Spanish speaking people in America get a pass just because there are millions of them? Is it quantity that matters? How fair is this? I know they’re not stupid… so what is the problem in expecting someone – anyone – who wants to live in America learn English? Isn’t it racist to expect the Thailand immigrant to learn English and not the Mexican?
speak english only campaign is nothing but a thinly vailed attempt to bring patriotic discourse to people that don’t speak english as a first language, nothing more and nothing less. It is mostly code for hispanics, mainly vs. illegal inmigrants that cook our food, cut our grass, and do menial jobs that we don’t want to do. I don’t see any english only signs in greektown, or little italy. Imagine having a section called “hispanic town” you purists would be all up in arms about it.
There is a reason the founding fathers did not want an official language stated in the constitution. It would against freedom of speech and would lead to the restriction of cultural uniqueness that makes us american.
Any politician that runs on such a non-issue as “Solo se habla ingles” does not get my vote. It doesn’t matter that some states have such a law, this is not the law of the land of the free.
cisco
The reason you do not see speak english signs in Greektown and Little Italy, is because the immigrants that built those areas into the great neighborhoods they are demanded that there families learn and use the language of there adopted country. Yes you hear a lot of Greek and Italian spoken in those communities, but the people for the most part also speak english in business and outside the community. Expecting immigrants to assimilate into our country is not an indictment of their culture. Asking immigrants to learn english is not the same as asking them to leave!
colin,
I agree that learning english is primary to any new ethnic group assimilating into America. I was talking about the double standard that exists in which is celebrated to put a bumper sticker that says “irish and proud” or “polish pride”, but people will make remarks if a hispanic shows “de colores” which infers of colors, meaing many colors. If a hispanic puts up such ethnic pride, they are assumed that they don’t love america or that their alliance is with someone else. I don’t see that happening with other national origens.
Cisco –
What a load of malarkey? I guess I missed all the protests surrounding Cinco de Mayo and the Puerto Rican Day Parade?
Joe
But a St. Patrick’s day parade or observance of Chinese new year doesn’t fall into the same catagory?
Cisco –
We disagree it is not “Solo se habla ingles” it is “ingles primero” as in the “lingua franca”. The best reason why we do not have a national language is that we should believe in State’s Rights leaving this decision to State government to decide.
Joe
funny the sign says “speak English” not english first.
I don’t have a problem with english being the de facto national language.
The issue is used as a lighting rod for racial and political reasons.
What does “Speak English” mean to you, mon frere?
Joe,
It has been a while since we discussed the 4th of July parade, a.k.a., McDonough vs. Blum.
I think you will be interested in knowing that the United States Supreme Court has already set precedent in the case Hurley v. Irish-American Gay, Lesbian, and Bisexual Group of Boston with Justice Souter delivering the opiniopn of the court.
The basic background is since 1947 a private organization has run the Boston St.Patricks Day Parade. In 1992, a gay and lesbian group (GLIB) wanted to enter the parade. The group running the parade basically said that, they did not want the message that GLIB was portraying in the parade they were hosting and therefore did not allow GLIB to participate.
GLIB took the group hosting the parade to court and ultimately the U.S. Supreme Court ruled (I am paraphrasing) that even thought the parade is on public streets, using public funds, the group hosting the parade could exclude participants from the parade if they are conveying a message the hosting group did not want comminicated.
In an essence, by forcing the hosting group to allow anyone or everyone to participate in the parade, (a parade they organize and run) to communicate any message they wanted to convey, it would be a violation of the hosting groups free speech to force them to allow all applicants to participate int he parade regardless of the message.
So, if a group applies for and is granted a permit to hold a parade, regardless if it is conducted on public streets and is financially supported entirely, or in part by public funding, the group hosting the parade has every right to say what goes into or what can be excluded from “their” parade.
This is no different than the rules Michael Blum’s organization has and he tried to enforce. Mr. Blum’s group holds the permit and runs the parade. If the rules say no politics, no campaigning, no controversial signs, then that is within the rights of Mr. Blum and his organization to decide what is political or controversial and to enforce the rules.
If participants do not want to abide by these rules, then they can apply for and obtain a permit for their own parade or not participate at all.
All along, many were concerned about Pat McDonnough’s right to free speech being violated but never once considered that Mr. Blum’s free speech rights were being violated. The U.S. Supreme court did rule accordingly protecting the rights of organizations hosting a parade saying that they could not be forced to endorse a message against its will.
Communicator –
The Boston matter is not comparable to the Bel Air parade. Blum’s speech was not suppressed in any way. McDonough, Impallaria, Wright and spectators were suppressed by Blum and his parade marshals.
Joe
Joe you miss the point. The court ruling implicitly says that the parade organizers have a right to control the content of the parade as a matter of their free speech.
Mr. Phil Dirt King Weasel you are again incorrect and blabbering more misinformed information.
My fellow Commissioners or myself never supported or endorsed at fountain in the middle of Main Street besides that was a State Highway project.(Wrong again)
Rockfield Manor is self funded and cost the tax payers very little ,lets see have a nice place for Town Residences or even Harford County residence to have social gathering plus preserve open space in the Town (The Rockfield Foundation, Inc. is a non-profit corporation, incorporated under the laws of Maryland. It is managed by a volunteer Board of Directors to promote and operate Rockfield Manor for the benefit of the Bel Air community) (Wrong again)
Expansion of Town Hall at a cost of FIVE MILLION DOLLARS last week Congressman Kratovil made a vist to Town hall in Bel Air myself and my fellow Commissioners greeted the freshman Congressman at the door and the first words from the Congressman were, My what a beautiful building for such a small town the look on my colleges faces PRICELESS.
Bel Air has just over 3500 households and approximately 10,000 residents divide five million into those numbers also there is no consolidation if you need a building permit or use and occupancy you still need to drive down 22 to DPW. This project does not benefit the residence one bit besides Town Hall belongs on Main Street. (With a fountain in the front.)
Once someone is arrested, they are transported to the newly expanded Detention center that was a muilt million-dollar project.
Perhaps you are ok with the bureaucrats completing this expansion but if you had a clue as to what happen in Aberdeen and Havre De Grace after there new Governmental palaces were completed how about a increase in there Municipal taxes. (Wrong again)
My comment in reference to Bob Chance stands he has dedicated his life to making this County a better place although he is not perfect and has made mistakes he is not a low life slug.
It takes courage to get involved in your community at any level be it in volunteering with Parks and Recreation ,serving in your church at school in any facet the list is way to long we are very luck to have so many involved families & citizens and that clearly is the main reason this is a great place to live.
My final words for you Mr. Phil Dirt King Weasel is that this coming November there is a Town election I think that you should put your name on the ballet to help make Bel Air a better place
In addition, please if you ever need any information I am in the phone book and would be very happy to bring you up to speed with FACTS you never know I might support you for this up coming election
Joe,
You miss the point. Blum is the organizer and he can allow or not allow any speech, sign, slogan ideal out of the parade that he chooses. The Supreme court ruled this by saying that if Blum did not have that right, his rights were being violated. The fact that public funds were used to partially fund the parade is irrelovent. Bottom line, the parade organizer can rightfully say and be within the law to keep anyone from participating in their function.
McDonough, Impallaria and Wright do not have the right to enter this parade, The St. Patrick’s Day Parade or any other function and say what they want. That is not freedom of speech. Again, the court is rrulinguling that if they were allowed, in this case, Mr. Blum’s rights to freedom of speech would be infringed upon because he would be forced to endorse a message against his will.
In regards to the spectators, you are right, a specator may say, hold a sign, protest and that is well within their rights. But remember, they are spectators not participants of the parade.
Communicator –
You are quite simply wrong.
The parade uses taxpayer money, it’s not Blum’s private parade, the parade rules are ambiguous and Blum does not have the right or authority to make arbitrary rulings on what is permitted speech. He overreached by singling out McDonough, Impallaria and Wright in the parade and was way out of line with the spectators that were also suppressed.
Joe
Joe,
I read Justice Souter’s opinion. The fact that public money was used in not relevent. There are no differences in the case and in McDonough vs. Blum.
1)Both are parades.
2)Both organizations accept public money
3)Acording to The United States Supreme Court, the organizers of a parade are within their rights to limit participants and what the participants are allowed to communicate in the parade.
The opionion also stated that even though the rules of the St. Patrick’s Day parade were vague and had not been enforced in the past, thet the group running it could still prohibit a group from participating in the parade.
Joe, read the case and the opinion. There are no differences between the two. Don’t say because public money was used – doesn’t matter. Don’t say it isn’t Blum’s parade, it is is organization’s parade and he sets the rules, like it or not.
It is not the town of Bel Air’s parade, it happens to take place in Bel Air, just like the St. Patrick’s Day parade happens to be held in Boston.
Communicator –
You can repeat yourself as often as you like and you will be wrong each time.
The circumstances of each matter you are comparing are entirely different. McDonough, Impallaria, Wright and the spectators were not an organized group petitioning to walk in the Bel Air Parade. McDonough, Impallaria, Wright were approved to participate and the cases of McDonough and Impallaria they had been invited by letter by the Town of Bel Air, and of course the spectators were just individuals that Blum and his marshals harassed and suppressed.
Furthermore, I have read the Bel Air rules and McDonough, Impallaria and Wright were in compliance and the spectators could do anything within the law they liked without regard to the parade rules.
Joe
Joe,
It really doesn’t matter who, what or when was it legal of not, because even if you are completely right, the act was morally wrong. to display political signs on a day dedicated to celebrate our Independence Day is just plainly wrong. While the day gives them the right to do so, it was rude, offensive, and took advantage of the hard work that others put into making a best in class parade, people that work many volunteer hours to show and celebrate the American spirit.
Cisco –
We disagree, I fail to see how signs saying “Support the Constitution” could be anything other than patriotic especially at a parade celebrating Independence Day.
Joe
Did the signs actually say:
“Support the Constitution”
Turning the 4th of July into a political rally is wrong, especially if you’re a politician doing it outside of your district — threatening to file a lawsuit against a non-profit organization for inviting you to participate in a parade that you do not want to follow the rules for.
What a bunch of nonsense.
Joe they where approved condotioned on a contract which was broken!
??? –
Yes there were signs that said “Support the Constitution”. McDonough et al did follow the rules and the theme for the parade.
The spectators were simply harassed and suppressed by Blum and his parade marshals.
Joe
Joe,
You sir, are simply wrong.
I don’t care what the sign says. It is wrong because this is not the place, the moment, or the time to express your political views. Its akin to having signs supporting abortion at a Christian Church event. Our independence celebrates the birth of our country, not the expression of any set of particular political views. The signs represented dissenting views to many, and while some support those views, there has to be a better time than to express them at a non-political celebration.
So if you equate this to “having signs supporting abortion at a Christian Church event”, which is making a statement that is morally in oppositon to the views of the event host, you are saying that “Support the Constitution” “Support the Tea Parties”, and “Cut Taxes” are morally in opposition to the views of the parade organizers? Are they really in favor of violating the constitution, opposing the tea parties (well, probably) and raising our taxes?
either message you pick for or against something would in effect be disrespectull to the parade. this is not the same as a sign that says “Bless our war heroes” “USA” or the display of the flag. The volunteers logs in countless hours, held fundraisers, and planned a parade to celebrate our Independence, and while it gives you the right of free speech, it does not give you the right to protest and express your political views at a non-partisan, and non-political event. To me is the same as expressing your support for abortion at a church event.
Cisco –
Don’t let the facts get in the way of your opinion.
There were reasonable ways to legitimately manage this parade, unfortunately Blum and the Bel Air Independence Day Committee, Inc. were lazy in writing the rules so they could be enforced fairly or worse they wanted vague and ambiguous rules so they could arbitrarily interpret them to suit their situational needs.
Joe
There was also a way to deal with it like an adult and McDonough did not do that. Further more he broke his contract!
Cdev –
Blum accosted McDonough en route of the parade, not in the staging area before the start of the parade and McDonough had displayed the very same signs in previous parades without incident or consequence.
McDonough’s reaction was more than reasonable in comparison to Blum’s outrageous and deplorable actions.
The real question is why Blum chose this year to enforce the ambiguous parade rules? Why embarrass parade participants in front of spectators? Why did Blum allow his parade marshals to require spectators to remove their signs and suppress their rights?
Blum has a great deal of explaining to do regarding his 2009 Independence Day Parade acts.
Joe
Cisco –
The spectators were harassed and suppressed by Blum an the parade marshals. The matchers complied with the parade rules and theme. Blum was out of control and is responsible for this fiasco.
Joe
Mcdonough can run but he is not electable in a general election regardless of who he runs against!
cdev
we agree on something..this Mickey mouse can’t win this way, in this manner. Totally defining yourself by a few catch words and signs is not gonna get him elected.
Joe,
You keep bringing up the spectators. Not one single spectator had a sign taken from them. The only signs that were put aside were the ones from the PARTICIPANTS int he parade.
For some reason, you think that because public funds were used to partially fund this parade that the participants have the right to convey any message they want. This is simply not true.
There is no difference between the Boston St. Patrick’s Day Parade and the Bel Air Parade. If Mr. Blum’s organization is running the parade, he is well within his rights to tell Pat McDonough, me, you or anyone else that they cannot participate in the parade. He can also tell us what type of sign we are allowed to display or not display.
If you think that this is a First Amendment Right, you are right, it is, it is about protecting the rights of people who hold functions like this evey year from having some knucklehead enter their parade and communicate a message they do not want communicated. And yes, it is their parade, they apply for and hold the permit, they organize it and they run it. The town of Bel Air, is just the town where it is held. No different that Boston is where the St. Patrick’s Day parade is held. I fail to understand why you don’t get this?
Whether you think “protect the constitution” is controversial or not is not relevent. Whether rules were enforced in the past, is not relevent.
Joe, I read your blogs and you seem like an educated man. I ask you, if you were running a parade, I can’t imagine that you would not want to have the final say so, as to what went into your parade? Don’t you agree?
For Example:
Colorado Springs prohibits Anti-War participants and signs
Lake City, FL rules – Parade units with themes or displays based on social, political, or religious issues, or are controversial, inappropriate, or inconsistent with the spirit and image of Springtime Inc. or parade units whose members engage in conduct that is considered controversial, in appropriate, or inconsistent with the spirit and image of the festival will not be permitted to participate in the parade.
Bristol, RI – Banned the Tea Party” from the parade for handing out pamphlets
Twin Falls, ID – Bans gays and lesbians
Philadelphia – Repent America is banned from a parade because the message is deemed controversial by the parade organizers. Upheld by the United States Court of Appeals Third District.
There are many more examples. Bottom line, If you run the parade, your organization gets final say, as to what or who participates in the parade.
Communicator –
You fail to understand that McDonough and Impallaria were invited by the Town of Bel Air to march. Which means your examples are not analogous. In addition the sign messages complied with both the rules and theme of the parade.
The larger question is Mr. Blum’s intent as he arbitrarily enforced the ambiguously written parade rules. Blum is a “Yellow Dog” Democrat, which is a Democrat that would vote for a yellow dog before voting for a Republican. Blum’s militant actions may have been politically motivated and committed while abusing his position of authority as an officer and board member of the Bel Air Independence Day Committee, Inc. Mr. Blum should know better and after all he does have a degree in law. It’s too bad Blum seems to think he is above the law.
Finally, spectators sporting signs in support of former Governor Ehrlich and signs displaying displeasure with Governor O’Malley were forced to take down their signs by the parade marshals.
Joe
Joe,
It makes no difference if McDonough and Impallaria were invited by the Town of Bel Air to march, the rules still apply.
You have your facts wrong. Mr.Blum did not take away signs from spectators. Not one.
There was no political motivation or agenda. The fact that he calls himself a “yellow dog democrat” is more of a joke than anything. I have known Michael for years and trust me, we disagreed on many political conversations. But I will also tell you Michael is fair, level headed and more reasonable than most. By the way, these rules have been inforced in the past and parade participants have always been cooperative. You only heard about this year because McDonough made a big deal out of it for some cheap publicity.
Communicator writes –
“You have your facts wrong. Mr.Blum did not take away signs from spectators. Not one.”
I did not say Blum did, I said parade marshals did. Blum was in charge of the parade marshals.
Joe
Joe,
Does the committee running the Bel Air Parade or any other parade have a say as to what will be communicated by the participants in the in the parade?
Pat McDonough should learn to speak English!
Communicator –
It depends on how the rules are written, purpose, intent and by what authority.
Joe
Joe,
Up until now, all I heard was McDonough’s First Amendment Rights were oppressed, now it depends on the rules?
So if the rules of the parade were more “clear” that’s ok? Funny, that’s not what the supreme court ruled. According the the Supreme Court, the organizers have the right to not allow any speech, person or group they want to exclude. Even if the ruled were ambiguous and had never been enforced in the past. In other words, the organizers did not forfeit their right to enforce rules even if they had not exercised that right in the past. I agree wholeheartedly.
Communicator you asked “Does the committee running the Bel Air Parade or any other parade have a say as to what will be communicated by the participants in the in the parade?”
I answered – “It depends on how the rules are written, purpose, intent and by what authority.”
Every case has its own facts, and it is foolish for you cite when there is no applicable citation to a matter that is not before any court.
You can’t be serious to think a parade organizer has absolute rights through rule making over all others in connection with a public parade event?
Joe
Well,
We have an interesting conversation of he said and he said again. There is only 1 certain fact that we need to keep in mind, that is Governor O’Malley has to be defeated in 2010. It doesn’t matter if its Delegate McDonough or my 5 year old son, anyone can do a better job than the present Governor. We have been abused as citizens in this State and continue to let it happen. O’Malley has lied, and the “Tax in the middle of the night session” was criminal. If a Republician had done that, there would have been a stoning right on the steps in Annapolis. I believe that our current President used the Martin O’Malley book on “How to be the dumbest and still get elected”. Problem was in both cases, they fooled a lot of you sitting here in front of your computers reading this that are bitching and complaining.
68% of every tax dollar you pay in this state goes into Baltimore City. I don’t know where the other 32% goes, but I can tell you, it doesn’t go to the ones paying the taxes. We have a modern day Robin Hood in both our State and our Country and there slogan is “Stealing from those who work and giving to those who don’t want to”. Both the idiots running our State and Country better relized one thing, we are a very young country, younger than a majority in this world, and if you keep giving it away it won’t be ours anymore. If we weren’t protected by water on practically all sides, we would have already been taken over, not because we don’t have brave people in our country, but because our leaders aren’t brave enough to lead.
So in 2010 and 2012, when you go and cast your vote, remember who protects you the working person who pays there taxes. Is it the one who understands accountability and knows what it likes to earn an honest dollar, or is it the one who has never had a job (2012) and one who thinks his name is Joe Curren (2010). Either way, stop whining about it and do something about it.
“The best social program is a job” Ronald Reagan
Lance Hersh
443-528-3046
Lance,
It’s hard to take you seriously, what with your comments about America being lucky it’s surrounded by water so that we’re not “taken over” and the one about “how to be the dumbest and still be elected.” I’d love to see your IQ next to the President’s…and that’s no insult to you. In fact, I’d love to see an of our IQs next to his. Anyway, I digress.
Just one quick note to you: there are just about twice as many hard-working, employed people in Baltimore City as there are all people in Harford County.
If the President would release his college records (and passport and birth and any else), we could have some idea of just how smart he is. Oh, but why should he since we all know he has nothing to hide.
Of course, if we want to judge by intelligence, George W. Bush received better grades in college than John Kerry and Al Gore, but come on, he MUST be dumber! Just look at all the verbal gaffes he made! (When Obama does it, it’s cute and charming, don’t you know). After all, Al took credit for the Internet and discover how to make millions of dollars for himself through the global warming scam. How about those carbon credits sold by your own company, Al? And Kerry figured out how to vote for BOTH sides of an issue, which should please everyone!
If it’s all about IQ, I hope you were a big Nixon fan.
It certainly isn’t all about IQ and I never made mention of any other presidents, etc. There’s no debating Obama is an intelligent guy, whether you agree with his conclusions or not. I just think it’s rather ridiculous to say he and O’Malley are “the dumbest.”
Anyway, I sure hope you aren’t a birther, Phil…it might call your IQ into question, too.
lance
America became great because people sought a better life here than where they came from. I think that still applies, it may not be as Anglo as you like, it seems, but the fact is that a third of our engineer graduates are foreign born, and so are many of our general practice doctors. I think you chose to see the bad that comes with the good, and that’s your choice, but America is just as great with people that work hard no matter where they come from.
68% of every tax dollar you pay in this state goes into Baltimore City. I don’t know where the other 32% goes, but I can tell you, it doesn’t go to the ones paying the taxes. We have a modern day Robin Hood in both our State and our Country and there slogan is “Stealing from those who work and giving to those who don’t want to”. Both the idiots running our State and Country better relized one thing, we are a very young country, younger than a majority in this world, and if you keep giving it away it won’t be ours anymore. If we weren’t protected by water on practically all sides, we would have already been taken over, not because we don’t have brave people in our country, but because our leaders aren’t brave enough to lead.
68% of every tax dollar you pay in this state goes into Baltimore City. I don’t know where the other 32% goes, but I can tell you, it doesn’t go to the ones paying the taxes. We have a modern day Robin Hood in both our State and our Country and there slogan is “Stealing from those who work and giving to those who don’t want to”. Both the idiots running our State and Country better relized one thing, we are a very young country, younger than a majority in this world, and if you keep giving it away it won’t be ours anymore. If we weren’t protected by water on practically all sides, we would have already been taken over, not because we don’t have brave people in our country, but because our leaders aren’t brave enough to lead.
this maybe the bumbest statement I have seen here:
“68% of every tax dollar you pay in this state goes into Baltimore City. I don’t know where the other 32% goes, but I can tell you, it doesn’t go to the ones paying the taxes. We have a modern day Robin Hood in both our State and our Country and there slogan is “Stealing from those who work and giving to those who don’t want to”. Both the idiots running our State and Country better relized one thing, we are a very young country, younger than a majority in this world, and if you keep giving it away it won’t be ours anymore. If we weren’t protected by water on practically all sides, we would have already been taken over, not because we don’t have brave people in our country, but because our leaders aren’t brave enough to lead”.
To whom is our country being given away? To whom does this country belong? FYI this is not the 13th century, even countries surrounded by water are prone to being visited.
Dave and Cisco (real name I guess)
First, Dave a high IQ doesn’t make you a great decision maker. For both these individuals that I’m referring to, they have never had to make a payroll, suffer through hard economic times that have effected there families, an yet they feel they can make the best decisions for us. They do not have the financial capablities nor do the people they surround them selves around. Also, the twice as many people working in Baltimore City than Harford County maybe correct, not sure where you got those facts, but do those people live in Baltimore City. Aslo are there twice as many people living and working in Baltimore City then the rest of the state? Taxes should be distributed with at least some type of portion to population. This state it is not. I lived in Baltimore City for almost 10 years and let me tell you, as soon as you get 6 blocks from the water it is a warzone. Look how many people and businesses have moved out of Baltimore City. Also the population in the City has been on a decline for the past decade.
Cisco, not sure where you get your anglo comment from. I’m a Jew who doesn’t have more than 3 generations alive because of Hitler. So don’t go throwing that democrat tactic “He’s a racist”. I have no problem with all the foriegn born doctors and engineers in our Country, I think it is a great thing. Can’t figure out where you even came up with that one. Guess you interpert things differently than I do. What I do have a problem with is any illegal immigrant can walk into MVA and get a licence and register to vote and not go through the proper channels that all of our past generations had to go through. They can get a job without a social security number, get paid under the table and not pay taxes, and God forbid if they need to go to the hospital, you and I have to end up payin for it with higher insurance rates. By the way, crediblity usually only lends itself to those who can say something by putting ther name next to it. So when you post your comments in the future, try putting a name next to it, or it really becomes less effective. I’m glad that you repeated my comments several times, now more people will read them!!
Funny how people on here can pass judgement on someone after reading a couple paragraphs instead of just asking for further clarification if those comments were not understood.
Lance Hersh
Lance,
I certainly agree that IQ isn’t everything. While many have made fun of W’s intellect, you have to be at least somewhat smart to make it through Yale and Harvard Business School! That doesn’t mean I agree with his decisions in the least, but I haven’t insulted his IQ. So where do you get off saying that O’Malley and Obama are “the dumbest?” Whatever…this seems pretty petty.
Regarding Baltimore, I’ve both lived and worked more than 6 blocks from the water and I’m a bit offended that you consider the rest of the city a war zone. You must not get out there enough. I’d be glad to show you around some great neighborhoods if you’re interested.
We can argue how the taxes are split up, but I’m not sure that it works as you suggest anywhere in the country. Have you been to an Orioles or Ravens game recently, by the way? Or done anything else in the city? Tax money that goes to projects in Baltimore City doesn’t just benefit the residents. It benefits everyone who lives nearby and visits or works in the city.
Dave,
Been to Baltimore more than most, and if you go there after the lights go down, you are taking a risk. Now granted you can say that about most places, but when I’m at he Harbor and there are gangs walking in mass numbers, its a little frightening, especially when you have your children with you. I’m usually in the city at least twice a month and for the amount of money pumped into the city, its not helping. Lets just say we agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with having different opinions. Go to plenty of football games down there and do have a great time. There are also plenty officers at that time and the crowds are protected. But its what is being done to help the people residents that live there to protect them, and its not enough. Thanks for your feed back Dave.
Lance Hersh
Cisco,
Also, were you this critical of people when Michele Obama said she was not proud to be an American until her husband won the election? Just wondering, cna’t have it both ways.
Lance Hersh
lance,
illegal inmigrants can’t vote just because they can have a driver’s license. Just more missinformation from your part.
lance,
Cisco is short for Francisco, I have been called Cisco all my life by those who know me. just think you really need to get your facts before you mouth off about people in general.
Cisco, I’m not sure where I was mouthing off, maybe you can show me. Also, when you are at the MVA, you can register to vote without any proof of citizenship. So I am correct in saying that you can be an illegal immigrant and vote, I didn’t think I had to give the procedure in how it was done. I’m a pretty open minded person, and I don’t personally attack people unlike yourself and I’m not going to start now. If you ever want to contact me, there is a reason I put my phone number on here. I’m always open for conversation on interesting topics such as these, but I’m not going to let you insult me in open without defending myself. Most of the time I’m usually on the Aberdeen blogs, but I thought it was an interesting topic so I decided to make a comment. If you have ever seen any of my previous posts, you will see that I always leave my name and number. Maybe the Dagger should make everyone write there name and number on here and then people out there could have civil conversations instead of this back and forth bickering just like this. I’m not sure who Franciso is so just because I’m not in your circle of friends, don’t expect me to know you.
Lance Hersh
I thought you needed your birth certificate at the MVA? When I registered to vote I never got asked for one or proof of citizenship. The Motor Voter Act simply made it possible to apply at the MVA I thought. They do not process it I think the Bd of Elections still does that?
The board of elections makes processes applications to determine if eligible to vote. Being a registered does not mean you are allowed to vote per se. As I said before non-citizens are not allowed to vote. I supposeed with anything, if someone wants to cheat there may be a way, but in general if not american, you can’t vote.
You are pretty open minded? I don’t see how by the way you make assupmtions about me…..fyi I am conservative not democrat.
Cisco –
“Confusion still reigns in the states. In 2004, a Maryland state legislator contacted the DOJ to express his concern that the Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles was allowing non-citizens applying for driver’s licenses to register to vote. When he asked the DMV to stop, he was told that it was required by the NVRA to offer all driver’s license applicants the opportunity to register to vote. The Justice Department quickly sent the Maryland delegate a letter pointing out that the NVRA had no such requirement and that federal law makes it a crime for a non-citizen to register. The letter went on to say that a state that issues licenses to non-
citizens should not offer such an individual the right to register to vote.[60] Nonetheless, there is no evi dence that the Maryland DMV has changed its pro cedures to deter non-citizens from registering, and Maryland officials recently testified that they were issuing 2,000 driver’s licenses per week to undocumented aliens.[61]”
Source – http://www.heritage.org/research/legalissues/lm28.cfm
Joe,
Way to ignore Cisco’s info about the Board of Elections approving registrations. Regardless, if you were really that confused previously, confusion should no longer reign for you. As of June 1, I don’t believe you can get a license in MD without proof of citizenship:
http://www.marylandimmigrationlawyerblog.com/2009/06/status-of-the-illegal-immigrants-right-to-obtain-a-license-in-maryland.html
The requirement to ask anybody that gets a driver’s license to register to vote isn’t a federal law, it was a state law nicknamed “Motor Voter”… It was passed prior to the change in rules that made Maryland give illegal immigrants driver’s licenses.
Dave –
Did you not notice the “quotations” for the excerpt from the linked article?
“Confusion still reigns in the states. In 2004, a Maryland state legislator contacted the DOJ to express his concern that the Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles was allowing non-citizens applying for driver’s licenses to register to vote. When he asked the DMV to stop, he was told that it was required by the NVRA to offer all driver’s license applicants the opportunity to register to vote. The Justice Department quickly sent the Maryland delegate a letter pointing out that the NVRA had no such requirement and that federal law makes it a crime for a non-citizen to register. The letter went on to say that a state that issues licenses to non-citizens should not offer such an individual the right to register to vote.[60] Nonetheless, there is no evi dence that the Maryland DMV has changed its procedures to deter non-citizens from registering, and Maryland officials recently testified that they were issuing 2,000 driver’s licenses per week to undocumented aliens.[61]”
Source – http://www.heritage.org/research/legalissues/lm28.cfm
Of course I realized you were quoting an article. What is your point?
This article is over a year old, and doesn’t reflect the contentious debate and changes made over the last few months. It also fails to acknowledge that while a non-citizen could have wasted their time (past-tense, since they apparently can no longer get driver’s licenses) filling out a voter registration form at the DMV, the Board of Elections would not have approved a single one of them. No non-citizen would have been allowed to vote!
Dave –
You must be right! No one that has a driver’s license and registered to vote in Maryland and other states could possibly be voting. Case closed Dave…great work.
Joe
Joe,
Thanks for your sarcasm, but either you left a word out or you misread my post. No non-citizens who registered to vote in MD would have had their registrations approved, and they cannot vote without an approved registration. Your concerns are all moot anyway, after June 1 of this year.
Dave –
How do you know that in Maryland illegal and resident aliens with driver’s licenses have not already registered to vote and voted?
Joe
How do you know they do?
Cdev –
Well there are reports that it is happening and just because you believe it isn’t happening doesn’t mean your hunch is true.
“Yet there is no reliable method to determine the number of non-citizens registered or actually voting because most laws to ensure that only citizens vote are ignored, are inadequate, or are systematically undermined by government officials. Those who ignore the implications of non-citizen registration and voting either are willfully blind to the problem or may actually favor this form of illegal voting.”
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=691
Joe
Yes and just because you believe it is happening does not make that true!
Cdev –
It is not a question of whether there is voter fraud by illegal aliens and resident aliens in Maryland it is how much.
Joe
Joe,
Perhaps you should have written “…voter fraud by illegal aliens, resident aliens, and resident citizens in Maryland…” since all three are a possibility.
And if it’s happening, which is illegal in all three cases, what do you propose the state should do about it?
I think there could be cases where someone could possibly vote and not ve a citizen, those I would assume are errors, mistakes in processing, identity fraud or just plain cheats. It could be solved by having a national ID system for nationals, legal residents already have ID cards, but as it stands, only a birth certificate stablishes national identity and it doest not have any photo identification and can be easily forged due to different standards in different states.
I think voter fraud is mostly committed by assuming identity of a registered and eligible voter, ie, grandmom is in hospice and others use her voter card to vote. or convicted felons voting when they have lost their voting priviliges.
Illegals can’t vote and voter registration does not guarantee that you will receive a voter card. It is a federal offense to vote when not eligible to do so.
Other points of missinformation….Most illegal aliens paid federal income, social security. No employer will hire a person without a social security number. The fact is that social security receives billions per year to persons that won’t collect because they are not legal. Either the number does not exist or multiple persons are using the same legal number.
I have a customer that I am friends with and disagree politically on most stances. He has a landscaping company. He has currently 17 employees that are here with a working visa, 14 of them speak broken english at best, have there drivers license and voters registration cards. That simply filled out the information at the MVA an recieved there voters registration card in the mail. In this case they do pay taxes, but I have countless customers that hire illegal immigrants that pay under the table and alot of them have drivers license, now I can not say that they registered to vote, but chances are if they applied, I’m sure they were able to get a voters registration card. Crazy how flawed a system that decides who is going to run this Country (Voting System). Our Government wants to control health care, auto industries, banks, and insurance industries, and they can’t even make the post office or amtrak profitable. Hell they can’t run the Government profitable. Just an interesting fact in the real world I thought people should know. If there are these 14 working for a small company, just think about how many there are in this country. Americans have gotten lazy, that won’t do the hard blue collar work that these illegal immigrants do.
Lance Hersh
It is illegal to vote when not a citizen. Like I said before people do cheat, but I think you got your particulars wrong in this case. Did you see their voting card? Or now you have a friend who hire illegals and the can vote too, imagine how well it supports your argument!!!
I guess I was just wrong!!!
Lo siento Amigo
Cisco-Done arguing with you. There is no point. You have to be pretty niave to believe illegals aren’t voting. As far as my friend hiring illeagls, you would be lying through your teeth if you didn’t know anyone or company that was doing it. We could argue over this until our teeth are green and neither one of us would back down, we will just agree that our system is very flawed and doesn’t favor the conservative party.
Lance Hersh
Our laws are not flawed in regards to this. Voter fraud is illegal whenever anyone practices it. Suppression of the African-American vote in the 2004 election was illegal. When a non-citizen votes (if it happens, as I believe it possibly could), that is also illegal. If this means our system is broken, it doesn’t mean that it benefits liberals. If the Board of Elections approves registrations that it shouldn’t, that is a mistake and ought to not happen. Again, it doesn’t mean the system is broken or tilted in favor of non-citizens or liberals.
Separate question: How long did you have to wait in line to vote last November?
Your friends who hire illegals should forfiet their buisness and be incarcerated fro breaking the law. It is their actions that enable and encourage illegal immigration.
Can’t tell me you have never hired a company or patroned a company or know someone who did this. If you say yes, your niave or just plain old lying. Ever shop at Walmart, then there you go. They have been fined more times then any fortune 500 company in this counrty for hiring illegals. Who do you think picks the fruit you eat. Don’t try to act like this is a problem and you don’t know it exists. I don’t like that the illegals are here, matter of fact I hate it. But don’t pick and choose who you are going to discriminate as far businesses for your convienence to make a point.
Also, the friend who has them working here on visa’s, he has told me time and time again that the American workers are lazy and that these younger generations have such a sense of entitlement that they think they are great workers just for showing up. Your father and grandfathers would ashamed of the work ethic that the young generation of today has.
I do not employ illegals! FACT
I do not knowingly patronize buisnesses that employee illegals! FACT
I have not shoped at Wall-mart since 1997.
I call ICE!
I do not care why he employs illegals [your friend] He is a criminal. You lose any right to complain about illegal immigration when you defend the practice!
lance,
I don’t think there are many illegals voting, infact there is no evidence that this is happening. Like I said before, I am sure that there are people that vote that don’t have a right to do so, this is called fraud and its a federal offense. The fact that you have a driver’s license does not give anyone the right to vote. I don’t know how else to say it.
As far as your friend, he should be ashamed to hire illegals to undercut businesses that pay their legal workers a fair wage. In fact, if you know he is hiring illegals and they vote to boot you should report him.
Oh yeah, a person here ILLEGALLY would care about BREAKING THE LAW by voting? Explain that one to me, would ya?
To aid and allow fraudelent voting is also against the law. The one committing fraud does not care, but I am taking about Lance knowing that his friend has illegals or temporary legal workers that have voter card and claim that they can vote.
I think his claim is patently false ( voter registration does not mean having the ability to vote), and if true he needs to report them to the authorities.
He also says that “his friend can’t find americans to work”, I doubt that too. His friend needs to pay tax paying citizens a fair wage, and in this economy? there are plenty of people looking for work too.
According to the state board of elections, an application to register to vote needs to be verified. A valid social security number is also needed. Clearly, illegals don’t have a valid social security number, and a registration by itself is not enough to be allowed to vote.
Actually, in Maryland it is illegal for a person working as a voter judge to ask for any form of identification for a voter other than a date of birth. i.e. a voter judge can’t ask to see ID, so if someone shows up to vote and knows the date of birth then they can vote.
I’m pretty sure I showed my driver’s license when I voted in November, although I’m not sure it was necessary (perhaps it just speeds things up). Anyway, cisco’s point is that they will not successfully be able to even REGISTER to vote. If you have not registered to vote, show up to vote and give your birth date, that will do you no good since they won’t be able to find you in the system.
dave,
they made easier to register, because is needed to be able to vote, however the board of elections needs to verify your registration by checking with social security to see if the person has a valid social security number. questionable votes are provisional until id is verified. Most people that vote are assumed to be able to do so, but the board can only count votes that have their registration verified.
cisco,
I’m with you on this one. I was just pointing out to “Question” that non-citizens will not even have their registration approved, so it makes no difference what happens at the polls.
Dave and Cisco –
People have been able to register to vote with a driver’s license only in Maryland or the last 4 digits of your social security bot both are not required. Seems to me that some of the 200,000 illegal aliens in Maryland may already be registered to vote.
http://www.elections.state.md.us/voter_registration/index.html#Information
Joe
joe,
ability to register does not mean ability to vote. the state board of appeals needs to verify info on a registration card before one can have their vote COUNT towards an election. Questionable votes are held as provisional and only oounted if id can be verified.
Cisco –
You’re wrong, I’m right.
If an illegal alien went to the DMV, was issued a Maryland driver’s license and registered to vote. The Election Board would have no way of verifying citizenship the voter registration would be approved by the driver’s license only.
Joe
Do you actually think that the election board verifies anything about a registration? You are flat out delusional! Art Helton registered and voted in Aberdeen, then Havre de Gace then Aberdeen and now is going to run as a Joppa resident while laying his head next to his wife in Darlington every night. If you are here illegally and register and vote it may be against some law somewhere, but it damn sure isn’t being enforced in Maryland. Why do you think the power party in Annapolis and DC want these parasites registered?
WAKE UP MERIKA!
Dave Yensan –
The Election Board does verify voter registration by electronically pinging the MVA Maryland Driver’s License database.
Joe
Dave
These are the requirements of MD law. You can think what you want about conspiracy theories, but there is no evidence that illegals vote in Maryland. There may be isolated cases, but if anything you probably have more convicted felons voting than non-citizens. Most illegals don’t have a valid social security number to be verified, so they are unable to vote, nor do I think they would care to vote!!! if they had a chance to do so.
Joe
As usuall,you are right and everyone else ins wrong-we know.
Dave –
You don’t need a valid SS# to register to vote, all that is required is a valid driver’s license.
Joe
Which requires proof of legal presence and usually a birth certificate.
Cdev –
MVA’s proof of lawful presence took effect June 1, 2009. It does not address resident aliens being able to register to vote, nor does it do anything about illegal or resident aliens who have already registered to vote. And there is no way to check on how many illegal or resident aliens that may be registered to vote in Maryland.
Joe
Correct but from here on out that is not as much of an issue (future registrations).
Furthermore your assetrtion that illegals vote in MD is simply a hunch and has no factual basis. There would be something that could be done. An audit of the roles but that would require time, people and money. All of which the state does not have.
State doesn’t have any money because of O’Malley’s overspending and fulfilling all the promises to the people who got him elected. Thats where the money went. Besides the illegals are going to vote for him, so why should he care about fixing the problem. He made promises to them, such as free education, college grants and so on.
O’Malley promised free education and college grants to undocumented immigrants? I find that hard to believe, and I’ll be surprised if you show me where.
What was Ehrlich doing about the issue when he was Governor?
NOTHING!
Cdev –
There are between 200,000 and 240,000 illegal aliens and we don’t know how many are registered or how many have been voting?
Those of you that said it couldn’t happen, it can; and for resident aliens it still can happen.
Joe
Correct we don’t know how many….if any are voting! That said we are not registering them to vote like candy as you suggest. Unfortunatley you would not like to pay to find out.
Cdev –
It cuts both ways there Bud!
You have an petty and uncanny way of posting what you think folks think and putting words into their mouths. It’s amusing to watch.
Joe
Joe
no one can vote based on a registration only. the information needs to be verified. This is done by crosschecking with Social Security. How many illegals do you know with a valid social security number?
1-You have no factual basis of how many illegals vote.
2-Your facts are wrong-based on hunches and mythical scenerios
3-Registration is verified and crosschecked to determine proper identification.
4-Even tough all of the above are true, you will say that govt can’t do anything right anyway.
Why bother talking to you about it. Except that for every counter argument you make, you sir make your self look more foolish.
Cisco –
The Election Board does cross reference with MVA database on those registrations processed by driver’s license.
1) You have no factual basis that illegal and resident aliens are NOT voting. It is a question of how many?
2) My positions are based on the http://www.elections.state.md.us/ and by calling the Annapolis office to confirm the information.
3) Again voter registration using a driver’s license is cross-referenced with MVA only.
4) Your positions are you opinions and not facts.
I think reasonable folks can see who is the fool!
Joe
Yes, many of us reasonable people see who is the fool!
Joe you are basing your assumption on as mauch conjecture as the next. It boils down to how much faith you have in the system. You say it is broke but based on your statements I infer you would not be in favor of spending the money to fix the problem!
I certainly agree, a fool says, “You can’t prove there isn’t a celestial teapot.”
The burden to provide the evidence of illegal alien voting is on the person making the assertion…not the other way around. Just because you think ‘it could happen’ is not evidence. Do you have any evidence at all to support the claim?
DJ –
It is common knowledge that MVA had been offering voter registration to resident and illegal aliens across Maryland and the Maryland Board of Elections admits resident and illegal aliens may have been registered to vote with no current procedure to determine how many.
Joe
that does not mean they can vote or if they vote that it will be counted.
THE VOTER’S REGISTRATION NEEDS TO BE VERIFED!!!!
ILLEGALS DONT HAVE A VALID SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER.
do you want me to repeat it again.
No where in this fair country do you need a social security number to register or vote. All you need to register to vote is a valid driver’s license. The Election Board cross checks the registrant against MVA record, end of Check! In the first election won by Parris Spendining, we had videos of ACORN and the NAACP picking up migrant workers on Broadway at Lombard at the 7-11 and taking them to the polls with instructions on how to vote. Those poor folk were then paid a pittance. It is very easy to commit voter fraud in this country and particularly in Maryland. Good grief folks dead people vote in Chicago and Baltimore every year. Do illegals vote? I’d bet my paycheck that they do, and they’re all instructed to vote democrat.
Who’s the we that had the video’s?
Cdev –
The height of hypocrisy, you post anonymously but want Dave Yensan to give out names of individuals associated with a group he may be part of? Pathetic!
Why don’t we stay on topic of resident and illegal alien voter registration and voting in Maryland?
Joe
Joe I am calling BS. ACORN was not around in 1994 as he asserts. I simply wanted to know who his pronoun ws referring to. If he doesn’t want to share….fine!
Cdev –
And my point is you are a coward in your anonymity. Your credibility is at an all time low because of your posts and it is further diminished by your cloaked identity.
Joe
Joe,
would you like me to say it Spanish, because English seems a bit hard for you.
Cisco –
No need to scream. You assume you need a SS# to register and resident and illegal aliens only need a driver’s license. The Maryland Board of Elections has a direct connection to the MVA database and pings against it.
Joe
joe,
You just won’t admit that you are wrong on this.
A valid social is needed to confirm and verify information on the registration card.
Registration alone does not allow anyone to vote, specially if you don’t have a valid SS#.
Cisco –
Because I am right about the voter registration process.
Joe
joe,
being right wing does not make you right. you give a bad name to anyone that has conservative beliefs. your extreme views on social causes is frightening and scary. I hope that our middle of the road citizens and conservative republicans repudiate his sort of racial profiling and stay away from your conspiracy theories. The registration or “motor voter” was oppossed by the extreme right. Instead of fostering trust and understanding with the conservative minorities, you chose to distance the republican party from true conservative values of equal rights and access to the american dream. When roadblocks are created to deny people their god given rights, people become more and more disenchanted with your view. Pretty soon the republican party will have no voice that represents the melting pot that we are.
Contrary to popular belief the act of voting does not become a reality unitl the provisional vote is verified, that is the identity and veracity of the vote is confirmed. Those votes that don’t pass that test are never counted.
Maybe you need to become educated on the whole process of registration and voting before you decide that anyone that doesn’t look like you, must be a felon or illegal and not eligible to vote.
Cisco –
Actually the facts make me right, and your unfounded accusations of racism are untrue and deplorable. In fact, they say more about you than they say about me. You should be ashamed of yourself and you owe me an apology.
Joe
I meant to say “radical profiling” maybe is froidan slip on my part. I apologize for my misspelled words meaning something I did not mean to imply.
The rest on the message however, I think is on point. Joe, you are not right!!!. You chose to see something that you want to see. The law and the facts do not support your erroneous conclussion. Last word on the subject for me.
http://electionsmaryland.com/vote_act_2002/general_requirements.html
for more information on voting procedures in Maryland. take note of provisional votes until verification of identity.
Making easier for people to register, means that eligible adults will have the opportunity to cast their will. Isn’t that what exemplifies a truly democratic system. Not a system full of obstacles, and tests to keep people from voting. That was the traditional way of keeping eligible minorities, ie, need to pass written test and the such.
Cisco –
I am tiring of your diversions.
Your link and post does nothing to ferret out the already registered resident and illegal aliens with driver’s licenses who have already registered to vote. There is no process in MD currently to ensure resident and illegal aliens who have registered to vote from voting.
Joe
Cisco –
Freudian, racial or radical, I take exception to your commentary.
Resident and illegal alien voter registration is a real problem in MD and other states. You are misinformed on MD registration process and procedure. It has not effectively protected against resident and illegal alien registration and voting.
Joe
joe,
take the exception if you like. you wanted an apology and i gave you a sincere apology. gentleman can disagree and if offended, I have apologized. You can choose to accept it or not, that is your choice.
its like a broken record, you can look at all my posts and you haven’t been able to refute any of my points. there is no proof of your “facts”. a registration does not equal a valid vote. end of story.
Cisco –
You are delusional and can’t accept the evidence in fact, there are no processes or procedures to prevent resident and illegal aliens that have registered to vote using their MD driver’s licence from voting. I have personally checked with the Annapolis Maryland Election Board Office and thoroughly reviewed and confirmed their procedures.
Joe
joe
they can vote, but it won’t count.
if you read the procedures, you would know that unidentifiable votes that can’t be verified won’t count because they won’t get past the provisional ballot. your complete lack of respect for people’s motives to move to the America is astonishing!!!. No right thinking legal allien would vote without a right, and risk deportation!!!. Get a life Joe.
These people won’t get deported!!!!!! They hold mass demenstrations and we don’t deport them. We sure the hell aren’t going to deport them when they walk into vote.
its not against the law to demonstrate. I actually know people that have been deported. illegal voting is a felony, and if a legal resident votes, they risk deportation. clearly they would not risk deportation just to vote.
Cisco –
We’re talking about resident and illegal aliens with driver’s liicenses that have registered to vote. Their votes would receive no greater scrutiny.
You seem to think that registered voters’ votes are checked against some kind of super Social Security and citizenship database at the polls and that doesn’t happen.
Joe
Cisco and other hard core defenders of the broken system;
In order to get a driver’s license you must show proof of birth and proof of residence. It is illegal for the MVA to request your social security number. Once you have a legal driver’s license you may register to vote. With me so far? (If you switch to Spanish I will switch to German) Now if you are registered to vote, and if you go to the precinct where yo are supposed to vote, the election person asks your name and residence. If they jive yo get a ballot, and presuming you mark it correctly, yo have voted. From this point on there is no further check for validity of the vote. This is how dead people, illegal immigrants and people who vote in some other person’s name get a valid ballot.
There are also documented cases (recent) of the “election observers”, the folks standing behind the kind volunteer who gave you your ballot, noting who has and has not voted. This person then gives the names of the non voters to another person who can call the person and remind him or her to come to the polls. If, toward the end of the day, someone still has not voted, another person can come in and say that he or she is any name at any address and will be able to cast a valid, albeit illegal ballot. Unless one of the election judges challenges that person’s identity there is no further check.
Oh, by the way, any number of illegals do have social security numbers. They are provided with same in order to get past the employer who can not or will not pay under the table. Of course the employer then withholds all taxes including social security and at the end of the year the employee does not file. The government now has a windfall and has precious little incentive to track that down.
One last thing. The idea of requiring a voter to provide a valid photo ID at the polls has been tried. The NAACP, ACLU, society for the protection of everything illegal and all of their cousins and aunts scream racial discrimination. Ergo no photo ID.
dave,
I am part german too. I can do spanish or german as well as english. Guten Abend!!!!
a photo id is required if when going to the vote, your name does not apperar on their list. when that happens id is requested and ballot is held provisional until other id verification systems are verified.
Dave and Joe are conspiracy theorists. The don’t believe that people in charge of the law follow it or that they’ll just ignore it.
You can verify eveything I said by going to the board of elections. is easy they are on that new thing calle the internet and its like an open book.
there is no evidence of a “broken system”. there maybe isolated cases of people voting with someone’s id, but as a whole the vote remains sacred and the id procedures are followed.
Dave and Joe just believe what they want to believe, they are entitled to their opinion, but there are no facts to support their irrational thinking.
Cisco –
Voter registered resident and illegal aliens would be on the voter rolls and there is no process preventing them from voting.
Joe
joe,
forget it…….it doesnt’ matter.
Cisco –
It matters a great deal. The integrity of the election system in the United States is of the utmost importance.
Joe
the system is safe and sound. the laws are followed and all americans should feel at ease that their vote counts.
only folks that believe in conspiracy theories such as you will never be convinced.
Who shot Kennedy then?
an illegal alien with a registration from the state of Maryland?
Boy thats a real conspiracy!!!!!
For those that don’t have a problem with masses of aliens coming in to this country and bringing it down and those that see no problem with allowing legal and illegal immigrants to speak their native tongue, and for those that want to bend over backwards to embrace the illegals flooding the borders, might I suggest a little trip south of the US border.
Go to Mexico and break a law, you will disappear. Go to any Central American country and not speak native tongue and you will be ignored, you will not be helped, in fact you will be an easy mark. Get robbed south of the border and see how the police (many will rob you just the same) react to you being a victim. Go to Mexico, Central or South America and DEMAND health care, schooling, and social services and see where it gets you. Yet these same people come in to the United States and expect us to kiss their butts.
Press 1 for English, Press 2 to go to Hell!
Sharon,
You are right, there shouldn’t even be a press 2. Can you say MS13. They make the bloods and crips look like angels.
sharon,
did you miss the kkk rally and rather come here and spout your vile racist thoughts? Tu eres estupida.
lance,
develop an original thought.
It doesn’t need to be original when a majority of America thinks it. Matter of fact maybe if you look in the mirror, you will notice that your the racist. And don’t give me the bs that if you for some reason are a minority that you can’t be a racist. 92 percent of all african americans voted for barrack obama, isn’t that racist? I hate the kkk as much as the MS13 and bloods and crips. They are all lawbreakers! For as much as your on here, that circle of friends you have that call you cisco must be small, and by the way, why don’t you put your full name on here so we know who we are talking to.
lance,
you write in vile and disgusting ways about people. You paint a picture in which some minorities must be either illegal, or criminals. Anyone can be racist, or anyone can be pegged a racist. I have failings as much as the next person. However, I do have an open mind that people that don’t look like me, have just as much good to offer as I do. That includes people that are legal, american, or foreign and even illegals.
the name you see here is the name you get. Guess I could come up with a name to please you, but what is the point?
Cisco: I must laugh, I’m the last person that you would see at a KKK meeting………though I’m fed up with leaders preaching separation and reparations, I think that I would be a much more welcomed face at an NAACP meeting……..did you figure it out yet…….I’M BLACK and conservative!
funny, i am conservative too. Except that you are a moron.
I’m the moron, that’s your opinion…..at least I don’t assume one’s race based on a posting and don’t accuse posters of being in hate groups.
Cisco I proffer that you pick any country and cross that countries border and start demanding citizen rights and start speaking your native tongue and get caught working illegally and see how fast that the country deports you or incarcerates you.
Immigration to the United States is fine, as long as it is done legally. Stepping on US soil does not make one a citizen and one should expect humanity rights heres but NOT citizens rights.
What is your take on Mexican immigrants protesting in California and flying the US flag upside down? Legal or illegal doesn’t really matter, they made a choice to come here, if Mexico is so great, simply go back. I find it disturbing that people come to this great land in an effort to take it over, why would that be?
I find it ddisturbing too. What I find more disturbing is rich people who profit from it and act as if they did nothing wrong. I think anyone who employ’s an illegal immigrant should be fined 100,000 for each one the first time. The second they should forfiet their buisness assests as a criminal enterprise and serve a term of not less then 5 years per illegal to run consecutively. If they get out and do it again they should get life and forfiet their personal assests. This would eliminate the insentive to come here. BTW we have lots of illegals from Europe and canada who go undetected and no one cares about.
Sharon
You assumed that I support illegal inmigration and criminal activity, there is nothing in my posts that expressed that opinion. You give conservatives a bad name, no matter what race you are. you sounded like a kkk member, the fact that you are black makes no difference, you are a black person that happens to be racist.
I’m launching an exploratory committee to test the waters of possibly launching an exploratory committee that will look into whether launching a faux campaign for governor could boost the ratings of my radio show.
And to win more votes (and more campaign contributions) for my eventual and inevitable run for reelection to the House of Delegates.
Dear Mr. President:
I am planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.
We’re planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. into Mexico, and we’ll need your help to make a few arrangements.
We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas, and laws.
I’m sure they handle those things the same way you do here.
So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I’m on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my kids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my kids to see the American flag on one of the flagpoles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver’s license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico, but, I don’t plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won’t make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol
car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my housetop, put U S. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any
complaints or negative comments from the locals.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about my family or me or about the strain might we place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I’ll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I will need Income tax credits so although I do not pay Mexican Taxes, I will receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov’t pays $ 4,500 to help me buy a new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I will get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who come to the U.S. From Mexico. I am sure that President Calderon won’t mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
You are incredibly uninformed about the tax issue. Undocumented immigrants typically pay taxes, such as Social Security, without receiving the benefit.
Interesting that you seem to feel the US should not offer services based on the fact that another country may not offer them.
post 78
you are a person in need of psychological care. You live in a world of illussion and fantasy. illegals come from many countries not just south of the border. Most pay taxes and don’t access nearly the services that natives do
Please please tell me that the author of that post is Pat McDonough himself, and please please tell me that he is going to run in and win the Republican primary. It will be SO much fun to watch O’Malley wipe McDonough all over the state, and then flush him down the toilet with all of his (very thinly disguised) racist rhetoric.
Good luck with your “let’s investigate ACORN” legislation, even though they receive no state money…
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