From Mrs. Pat McGrady:
We live in a country that allows freedoms only dreamed about in many parts of the world. We share many gifts that older generations scrimped and saved for and gave their lives to achieve. We are generous and selfish at the same time, and many of us need to be reminded regularly of the many gifts that we assume are standard operating procedure world wide. I refer to our education, our police protection, our multiple news sources, our variety of media outlets, but mostly to our religious freedom…the freedom to worship God in any way we choose. We Americans have the freedom to read any books we choose, to write to our lawmakers, our newspapers, to speak on tv or radio, or stand on the street corner and wave signs.
Many countries do not allow such liberty.
On Thurs., April 15, at 4:00pm at the Bel Air courthouse on Main Street, a TEA Party will be held and the people will be heard. Our country is in a transition period and we need to make informed decisions about what, where and how we, AMERICANS, want to proceed. I encourage all of you to come, listen and learn.
The state of our country, the state of our state, the state of our county is at risk. Be aware that the event is free, as is our speech, for now. The direction that our country is headed may not allow these types of rallies, political free speech and peaceful sharing of ideas if people do not stand up and let their voices be heard. If you doubt this statement, please look for information about the Senate bill that John McCain and Joe Liberman proposed about the silencing act of suspected dissidents. This bill is not acceptable under any situation, it allows the govt. to detain people who are suspected of wrongdoing without a trial or without legal warrants. I am not certain of the bill’s status, but just hearing about it, frightens me.
Please note that the event starts at 4:00pm and goes until 7:00pm.
I hope to see many of our county residents attend the Taxed Enough Already Tea Party in Bel Air, on Thursday, April 15. May God bless us all.
Don’t you think it is a bit ironic that you will be protesting the government and taxes on tax funded property for you rally all the while having the added assurance of a peaceful demonstration because you will be protected by tax funded police? Just curious.
Um, it’s not “irony”….it’s called “freedom of speech”. And what better place to protest government and taxes than on OUR taxpayer property? Would your prefer we demonstrate on YOUR private property?
And while a peaceful protest is the likely outcome, it’s not due to the protection of our well-deserving police force….it’s due to the common civility and respect that most patriotic Americans have for their country and their neighbors.
Hope to see you there.
Weather one agrees with them or not!
I have not seen common civility and respect at other Tea Party demonstrations. I have seen racist signs and hate filled talk. Perhaps you are thinking about some other demonstrations.
US taxpayer: Typical liberal…..you see EVERYTHING through the prism of race. I can unequivocally state that I AM NOT A RACIST….yet I am a supporter of the TEA Party movement. So, take your narrow-minded view of the movement and blow smoke somewhere else….try here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com. They’ll welcome you with open arms, I’m sure.
Are there loons that make up signs that are inappropriate? Absolutely. Are there also honest, hard-working folks with integrity that make up signs that just state their views at they see it? Absolutely. Yet, you only see the loons and choose to categorize ALL based on the actions of the few. It’s pathetic.
What is pathetic is how you try to rationalize tea party behavior by saying it’s only a few who are “inappropriate” while the rest are “honest hard-working folks with integrity that make up signs that just state their views at (sic.) they see it.” If this were true, they would not allow any of the hate filled signs that dominate tea party events. What is I see is an organized movement to take over our democratic government. This has been done before. While tea baggers may not be Nazis, the strategies are similar. IMHO.
Propaganda Strategies: by Adolf Hitler
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana
• Propaganda must always address itself to the broad masses of the people.
• All propaganda must be presented in a popular form and must fix its intellectual level so as not to be above the heads of the least intellectual of those to whom it is directed.
• The art of propaganda consists precisely in being able to awaken the imagination of the public through an appeal to their feelings, in finding the appropriate psychological form that will arrest the attention and appeal to the hearts of the national masses.
• The great majority of a nation’s thought and conduct are ruled by sentiment rather than by sober reasoning.
• This sentiment, however, is not complex, but simple and consistent. It is not highly differentiated, but has only the negative and positive notions of love and hatred, right and wrong, truth and falsehood.
• Do not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favorable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favorable to its own side.
• The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward.
• Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must of course be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula.
• In Germany (America) the propaganda which helped convince the people of the efficiency of the National Socialist (Republican) solution for the country’s political and economic problems was reinforced by an army of storm troops (Tea Party members) that weakened opposition through terrorism. Such methods made difficult and dangerous the promulgation of competing propagandas. The power of the Nazi (Republican) propaganda was increased further by the financial support of certain business men (wall street, big banks, for profit insurance companies) and by the political intrigues of Colonel Franz von Papen (Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh) and other officials of the Weimar Republic (Fox News).
I stand corrected….there are apparently loons on the left as well as the right.
Where was there rage when the Black conservative had the snot kicked out of him at a town hall meeting by the SEIU thugs that were never charged. Where is your rage over the Black Panthers in Philadelphia who were intimidating voters, who our Attorney General who is black will not charge. I do not want to hear that the Tea Party movement is racist, just like the left wing protesters there are always kooks who latch onto a movement. In he D C incident there is a $100,000.00 dollar reward for any video of the racist comments that were supposed to have been made. To date no one has come forth with that video that the Rev Al Sharpton said he saw. I worked as a police officer for 25 years in Harford County and race related crimes happened sure, but in a small percentage. Why did Congress walk up the steps of the Capital instead of using the underground entry that they normally use? They baited the Tea Party people to do something stupid. And as you can see the Tea Party movement is not racist and not violent. Can the same be said about the left, ask Ann Coulter, Karl Rouve, and other conservative people who have been assaulted just for being conservative. Why is there a double standard for the Democrats, and one for Republicans?
“Yet, you only see the loons and choose to categorize ALL based on the actions of the few. It’s pathetic”
Is that not what you are doing when you say
“Typical liberal…..you see EVERYTHING through the prism of race.”
Do all Liberals do this or just some?
Cdev: point made. My emotions got the best of me I guess. I apologize to any liberals that do not play the race card at the drop of a hat (seriously).
Yes Retired Cop you earned every penny of your salary and pension paid for by PUBLIC money. There are good uses of public spending. Should we cut your pension out of the budget? Some people do not feel we should spend tax dollars on police and their vote counts that same as yours.
Yes I have a good idea of what goes on “out there” having spent 40 years working for Baltimore with “those people” and your over generalization about people in the “projects” would sound rasists to most people even if you did not mean it to be.
As far as Barney Frank is concerned, what does he have to do with your symbol?
US Taxpayer –
The Bush Administration along with Democrats and Republicans were not fiscally responsible. President Obama is even more reckless and irresponsible.
But what does the aforementioned have to do with 47% of Americans paying zero federal income taxes?
Joe
Joe, about that percentage (47%) makes up Children, infants and prisoners and other members of our population with zero income that should in fact not be paying income taxes since they have no income!
Tea Baggers, now that is hate speech. Double standard and your little article about Hitler describes Obama and his administration perfectly. Conservative talk radio is alive and well, why is it liberal talk radio fails? Because no one wants to listen to that dribble. If we called Barney Frank a tea bagger would that be hate speech or just a true statement? I will keep my money thank you and I alone will decide where it goes, I am tired of paying for people in the projects to sit on their butts for generations and do nothing and get a check on the first of the month. I worked there, they can work, but why work when there are knuckle heads like you who want to keep them dependent on government to keep that democrat vote. I think what scares you the most is you see what is coming in 2010 and in 2012. The day of the liberal is coming to an end. The second Jimmy Carter administration is a one term President again. Keep posting your ideas because you make the Tea Party and Conservative movement stronger with each posting. I as a Ronald Wilson Reagan conservative thank you. Give my your address and I will send you a copy of the constitution for you to read, you have apparently forgot about this document.
“I will keep my money thank you and I alone will decide where it goes”
Thank you, RC. It is refreshing to finally see a tea party activist tell the truth…it’s not about ‘limited government’, never was. It’s about anarchy or no government and no taxes. It’s an impossible objective that will keep you ever disgruntled and constantly complaining. Even IF ‘your guys’ get elected, then the next guy uses the same motivation to get you to turn on they guy you supported before.
First of all Retired Cop, the tea bag is your symbol. See references below:
“On April 1, 2009, all Americans are asked to send a TEABAG to Washington, DC.” http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/teaparty.asp
“With sincerity and respect, we ask that you join us on April 1st, 2009, in sending the Oval Office a Tea Bag, in honor of the party in Boston on December 16, 1773, and in anticipation of its nationwide symbolic re-enactment in the summer of 2009.” http://www.reteaparty.com/2009/02/27/rick-santelli-is-as-mad-as-hell-chicago-tea-party/
Secondly, your statement, “I am tired of paying for people in the projects to sit on their butts for generations and do nothing and get a check on the first of the month,” is a generalization based upon what, I think anyone would regard, as a racist’s point of view. Perhaps you are not racist, but that statement seems based on prejudices and stereotypes related to race. I worked in Baltimore City for forty years and I can attest that your generalization is not accurate.
I will admit that many of the problems in large cities are self inflicted and can be culturally based, but the answer is not to eliminate all public assistance to all people. You do realize that some people who need public assistance need it because big business (e.g. banks, for profit health care companies, companies who sent American jobs overseas for more profit, etc.) for circumstances beyond their control, and caused by Republican policies.
Thirdly, Mr. Retired Cop, I find it ironic that you who have been on the public payroll all of your working life and whose retirement and health care is paid by the public is so down on public expenditures. The government’s basic role, as envisioned by those very founding fathers you like to quote, were clear that it is a government’s responsibility to look after the welfare of its citizens. That is why we have police, fire fighters, roads, defense, health care, etc.
I have two children in law enforcement and I know of the tremendous pressures and dangers that is a regular part of your working life. I feel first responders are the very best of public servants and deserve our gratitude and a comfortable retirement, but I would not disallow public succor to those who need it.
US taxpayer –
1. It is disingenuous and foolish to purport that Tea Party Activists would ever call themselves by a vile sexual term such as “Teab***er.
2. It is the province of the weak and feeble minded to see racism in stated positions of others whom they oppose.
3. Blaming Republicans for everything that is plaguing our economy is simplistic and incorrect.
4. The Founding Fathers who wrote the U.S. Constitution never intended for government to provide health care.
5. When it comes to giving succor I think we should give it to the 53% of citizens that actually pay federal income taxes since the other 47% are already getting relief.
Joe
Correction:
2. It is the province of the weak and feeble minded to see racism in stated positions of others whom they oppose, where no racism exists.
PorterG: I really don’t think that most TEA Party members support anarchy or NO government whatsoever. It’s my opinion that most are just frustrated over the sense of entitlement that our elected officials have and how it seems that they feel there’s a never-ending supply of money at the ready to continue to fund program after program after program. I mean, it just can’t continue to work this way. WE ARE BROKE. We all need to make serious changes to the way we spend our money….from my house to the White House….things need to change. Our debt will be 90% of GDP in 2020 (CBO Report). It’s an unhealthy ratio. Just look at Greece as an example.
I’m not calling for the extermination of government. I’m looking for fiscal responsibility and for those in power to treat us and the money we pay in taxes with a little (scratch that….make that…a lot…) of respect.
Joe, Here is some facts you will not get on Drudge or Fox. About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability….that is NOT the same as getting relief.
According to a Congressional Budget Office analysis conducted in 2007, it’s true that the wealthiest one percent paid more in Federal income taxes than the bottom 90 percent kicked in.
But what else did the CBO find? Drudge won’t tell you, but the CBO also said that the top one percent paid 5 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes, while the bottom 50 percent — many of whom pay nothing in federal taxes — paid 10 percent of their take, twice as much proportionately.
It also found that those in the bottom 80 percent of the earnings ladder paid around 9 percent of their incomes in Social Security taxes; the top one percent paid just 1.6 percent of theirs. After the income tax, payroll taxes represent the largest share of the federal take — those dollars represent a much bigger piece of the pie than corporate income taxes or taxes on capital gains.
A 2009 study by the nonpartisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy looked at state and local taxes in greater detail. It concluded, “nearly every state and local tax system takes a much greater share of income from middle- and low-income families than from the wealthy. That is, when all state and local income, sales, excise and property taxes are added up, most state tax systems are regressive [emphasis theirs].”
The researchers found that those in the top 1 percent of the heap paid around 5 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes; the next 4 percent paid about 7 percent of theirs; the middle 5th paid just over 9 percent and those at the bottom of the ladder, the poorest 20 percent of the population, forked over almost 11 percent of their incomes on average to state and local governments.
They also looked at excise taxes — taxes on gas, cigarettes, alcohol and other goodies. They found that the “average state’s consumption tax structure is equivalent to an income tax with a 7.1 percent rate for the poor, a 4.7 percent rate for the middle class, and a 0.9 percent rate for the wealthiest taxpayers.”
So we really have a flat tax. That’s the conclusion of a 2007 study by Boston University economists Laurence J. Kotlikoff and David Rapson, who found that when you add it all up — state and local taxes, federal taxes and excise fees – “The average marginal tax rate on incomes between $20,000 and $500,000 is 40.3%, the median tax rate is 41.8%, and the standard deviation of all of those rates is 5.3 percentage points. Basically, most of us pay about 40%, plus or minus 5.3 percentage points.”
The thing is, this isn’t just a Big Lie, but a beautiful example of right-populism. This is how you shift the focus of people who are rightly angry about their loss of economic security from those above them on the social hierarchy — the elites who in fact can influence their own outcomes — to those who are poorer (and/or darker) than them.
Taken from: The Fifteen Biggest Lies About the Economy (And Everything Else the Right Doesn’t Want You to Know about Taxes, Jobs, and Corporate America))
That is what you are using to justify the tea bagger comment. My statement about the projects is not racist, it is from my experience. It was black and white. I have a daughter and son in law who are Baltimore City police officers and they would agree with me.
As far as my salary when I worked, my retirement and my health care. I earned every penny of it.
I believe in small government, low taxes and let me have control over my life. I work hard and I am tired of the stupid spending.. You have no idea what goes on out there. And you never answered my question about Barney Fwank.
US Taxpayer –
So it’s settled 47% of Americans pay no federal income taxes and some even get paid money through a tax credit.
Regarding Social Security it is the same rate for everyone and the amount you contribute determines the monthly benefit a person receives. While I am not a fan of Social Security it does force people to save money for retirement who might otherwise not do so.
Joe
No Joe, What that means is 47% do not pay any ADDITIONAL taxes when they file.
US Taxpayer –
47% pay zero federal income taxes and some get paid a tax credit.
Joe
Here is some information about tax relief
http://www.theonlinestate.com/blog/2010/04/13/see-how-much-you-could-save-thanks-to-the-recovery-act/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+theonlinestate+%28The+OnLine+State+-+Where+Maryland+Democrats+Go+Online.%29
US Taxpayer –
Here is a well articulated opinion on the unfairness of 47% of Americans paying zero federal income taxes.
http://tiny.cc/2tv98
Joe
Talking about government spending, where where all the Tea Party folks when Bush was spending us into the ground? One did not hear a word from Fox. Now you are complaining about spending? And Bush’s spending does not include the useless war in Iraq that was off the books.
George W. Bush, despite all his recent bravado about being an apostle of small government and budget-slashing, is the biggest spending president. “He’s a big government guy,” said Stephen Slivinski, the director of budget studies at Cato Institute, a libertarian research group. The numbers are clear, credible and conclusive, added David Keating, the executive director of the Club for Growth, a budget-watchdog group.“He’s a big spender,” Keating said. “No question about it.”
Take almost any yardstick and Bush generally exceeds the spending of his predecessors. When adjusted for inflation, discretionary spending — or budget items that Congress and the president can control, including defense and domestic programs, but not entitlements such as Social Security and Medicare — shot up at an average annual rate of 5.3 percent during Bush’s first six years, Slivinski calculates.
That tops the 4.6 percent annual rate Johnson logged during his 1963-69 presidency. By these standards, Ronald Reagan was a tightwad; discretionary spending grew by only 1.9 percent a year on his watch.
Discretionary spending went up in Bush’s first term by 48.5 percent, not adjusted for inflation, more than twice as much as Bill Clinton did (21.6 percent) in two full terms, Slivinski reports.
Including costs for fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, defense spending under Bush has gone up 86 percent since 2001, according to Chris Hellman of the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation.
But Bush’s super-spending is about far more than defense and homeland security. “He has presided over massive increases in almost every category … a dramatic change of pace from most previous presidents,” said Slivinski.
Spending Under President George W. Bush
during his eight years in office was out of control. President Bush oversaw the largest increase in government spending. In fact, President Bush increased government spending more than any of the six presidents preceding him, including LBJ. In his last term in office, President Bush increased discretionary outlays by an estimated 48.6 percent.
During his eight years in office, President Bush spent almost twice as much as his predecessor, President Clinton. Adjusted for inflation, in eight years, President Clinton increased the federal budget by 11 percent. In eight years, President Bush increased it by a whopping 104 percent.
The Bush Administration Adds $4 Trillion To National Debt
With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush’s presidency. It’s the biggest increase under any president in U.S history.
On the day President Bush took office, the national debt stood at $5.727 trillion. The latest number from the Treasury Department shows the national debt now stands at more than $9.849 trillion. That’s a 71.9 percent increase on Mr. Bush’s watch.
George W. Bush’s presidency cost the country about $11.5 trillion. In early October of 2008, President Bush asked for and Congress appropriated $700 billion to rescue Wall Street’s financial institutions. Once that was done, the sky was the limit, and the numbers became dizzying.
Joe:
Here is a clearer explanation on how you mislead tax payers with distortions.
The 47 percent number is not wrong. The stimulus programs of the last two years — the first one signed by President George W. Bush, the second and larger one by President Obama — have increased the number of households that receive enough of a tax credit to wipe out their federal income tax liability.
But the modifiers here — federal and income — are important. Income taxes aren’t the only kind of federal taxes that people pay. There are also payroll taxes and capital gains taxes, among others. And, of course, people pay state and local taxes, too.
Even if the discussion is restricted to federal taxes (for which the statistics are better), a vast majority of households end up paying federal taxes. Congressional Budget Office data suggests that, at most, about 10 percent of all households pay no net federal taxes. The number 10 is obviously a lot smaller than 47.
The reason is that poor families generally pay more in payroll taxes than they receive through benefits like the Earned Income Tax Credit. It’s not just poor families for whom the payroll tax is a big deal, either. About three-quarters of all American households pay more in payroll taxes, which go toward Medicare and Social Security, than in income taxes.
(http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/14/business/economy/14leonhardt.html )
Statisticians will jump on the clear difference between “persons” and “households,” and that is correct. Since the number of people within a “household” can vary, it is illogical to assume that 47 percent of the American population will pay no income tax – and even more illogical to assume that those who pay no income tax ought to be paying income tax. Infants, inmates and all sorts of other poor people have no income to speak of, and ought not to be paying federal income taxes. Moreover, the vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare, and excise taxes on gasoline, aviation, alcohol and cigarettes. Many also pay state or local taxes on sales, income and property.
There are also tax credits for college expenses, buying a new home and upgrading an existing home with energy-efficient doors, windows, furnaces and other appliances. Many of the credits are refundable, meaning if the credits exceed the amount of income taxes owed, the taxpayer gets a payment from the government for the difference.
US Taxpayer –
So we have come full circle back to 47% of Americans pay zero federal income taxes.
We have created a dependent class of Americans that require government charity to live.
Joe
Joe,
Should someone who has NO income pay tax on 0? if so I am pretty sure it would be zero!
Joe, you are incorrigible. You will believe what you want to believe independent of facts or reason. If you think that 47% of American citizens are on the dole, you are the perfect Fox viewer.
While it seems evident that the bickering won’t stop on this, I came across the following filed by the AP:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1
With the following quote:
“About 47 percent will pay no federal income taxes at all for 2009. Either their incomes were too low, or they qualified for enough credits, deductions and exemptions to eliminate their liability. That’s according to projections by the Tax Policy Center, a Washington research organization.”
Joe, is this the number you’re referring to? US Taxpayer, is this the same statistic you said is wrong?
I’m confused over this one.
US Taxpayer –
The United States has created a permanent under-class.
“47% of Americans Will Pay No Federal Income Taxes At All for 2009”
http://tiny.cc/v79wo
“Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax” AP
http://tiny.cc/0fjau
Joe
I’m not saying that you shouldn’t use public property, nor am I saying you don’t have the right to demonstrate. I am just using my own “freedom of speech” to point out how strange it is to take advantage of a public service while complaining about the investment necessary to keep that service going.
No, I think the point of your comment was to try to belittle those that feel the need to protest. I could be wrong about that, and if so, I apologize for drawing conclusions.
I think you’ll find that most of the demonstrators are not “anti-government”, but rather “anti-waste” and “anti-tyranny”. So, I don’t think the point of the demonstration is to complain about the “investment necessary to keep it going”. Some government is needed. However, it should be LIMITED and EFFICIENT in its function.
I think the point of the demonstration is to hold those we’ve elected accountable for their actions. After all, if I ran my household budget the way most governments (local, state, fed) run theirs…I’d be bankrupt.
So, I think it’s a matter of fiscal responsibility for most demonstrators (I think). Governments seem to only want to grow bigger. However, bigger is not always better.
Interesting that you bring up household budget. I assume you are saying that the Govt is spending more than it has…. If you are fortunate enough to have paid cash for your home, I say “wow.” But, if you are like most homeowners, then you most likely have a mortgage on your home – like myself. While I say that I balance my budget each month – and luckily, I don’t owe anything other than my mortgage, and I do know how lucky I am – the truth is that I did spend far more than I had at one time to purchase my home. Would you call that in-efficient? Because, I don’t. So, you see, it is ok to spend more than you have at the exact minute, knowing you will be able to make all of the payments. Are you saying that the US Government or our state is not good for the future payments? Because, I certainly don’t believe that is the case. While we should be efficient, that does not mean that we have to have zero debt. So, we are on the same page and no need to make a ‘tax day’ protest over what everyone thinks is important – safety, schools, etc.
The problem today is that the federal government is not borrowing money for long term purposes (like dams, bridges, roads, etc) but for short term and current obligations, like welfare and military use.
Debt is useful in the context of things like a mortgage- if the asset being purchased will be useful for more than the current owner, why not break down the payments over the useful life? But if the purpose of spending is short-term (think “stimulus”) then what is the benefit of borrowing from the future to spend today?
I also have mortgage. The lending institution performed a debt-to-income analysis on me before loaning me the money. They were willing to lend me a dollar amount based on that analysis. So, do I think we should be a “zero-debt” government? No….that’s just silly. What I do think is that the government should spend money WISELY and stop trying to squeeze the blood from the stone, which is the taxpayer. Do you believe the government is efficient in how it spends money? It’s hard to get a debt-to-income ratio on an entity that can either PRINT MORE MONEY or TAX ITS CITIZENS in order to get more cash. I wish I had the luxury of saying to my employer….”gee, I’m a little short this month on my payments….can you lend me little extra in my paycheck to cover me?”.
As far as being good on future payments. Like any other good or service, the laws of supply and demand shall deem the worth of our dollar. WHEN the time comes that China and/or the oil-rich nations no longer need our U.S. dollars, we will see how valuable our currency is outside of our own borders. From “inside the fence”, it’s all lollipops and gumdrops since you can go visit your local Wal-Mart retailer and buy stuff from countries whose labor laws would have those thrown in prison if they were enacted within our borders.
Back to the issue…..Government spending is out of control. It needs to be brought back in check. The tax payer is the “money tree” and other countries are our credit cards. At some point the credit card company is going to shut off the credit line no matter how much money you pluck from the tree.
The house that you bought with a mortgage is an investment. The value of the house, one assumes will increase, the sale at a later date will enrich you. The loan or mortgage will or won’t be paid back, but either way, both you and the bank will win/profit. The house is yours if you pay off the mortgage and the bank gets the house if you don’t, and you still had a place to live in the meantime. No one buys a house expecting to not be able to pay it off. Your comment that a homeowner does not owe more than the mortgage is not completely accurate. With a mortgage, comes insurance, taxes, h20/sewer, electric/gas, phone, cable etc. I assume that you have furniture, appliances, et al and I am not saying any of these things are bad. The issue is the amount of taxes that you/me are required to pay to allow others that want the same as me to have without them working/paying into the tax base. I do not deny that some folks need help.
But the situation that I object to is the number of generational subsidized families…I resent that I am working to provide for my family and theirs, too. I resent that the single mother of 3 children under 6, with different daddies, gets funds for a home,(vouchers or Sect. 8 housing), utilities, food, free college, if she wants it, and doesn’t have to pay for her children to attend day care, the dr. visits and meds are free and the kicker is she still drives a new car…There are solutions to these problems if the gov’t would listen to the people that are paying their salaries, the tax base, then, maybe, the unwilling or unable to work would at least try to find a paying job…but why bother when the working folks do not “get” as much as the non-working. Something is definitely wrong with this picture.
That must be a comment posted simply to elicit responses.
Otherwise, you should do some research if you really have any desire to understand the Taxed Enough Already movement. You refer to them ‘taking advantage of a public service’, which I assume to mean the police. Where has the TEA party mentioned eliminating police protection? Do you really think that someone who is against waste in government and its ever growing extra-Constitutional intrusion into our lives would also naturally be against government-run police?
It is a common theme for those opposed to something to paint their opponents with an all-or-nothing brush, but the public is a little smarter than that. No sane person wants all of the government to go away. Intelligent folks, however, want clearly defined limits – at least those enumurated in the Constitution.
If you do not want to cut police, then where do you cut? There, despite what so many TEA Partiers say, is just not that much waste in government, particularly at the local level. Tax cuts now will lead to cuts in services, without question. Cuts in schools, libraries, police, fire, parks N rec, public services, and so on. There is just no place else from which to take money. Harford County is mighty lean… the problem with TEA Partiers is that you protest for more when we are already as low as we can go.
What we need now is a progressive tax increase so that our wonderful county (and I mean that) can maintain its top notch libraries, schools, parks, public works, and protective services. So many TEA Partiers see taxes in any situation as bad… while those of us that believe in functional government see them as investments in our society.
Funny Proud, President Reagan cut taxes and the economy grew. I can live without top notch libraries, parks, and having my road paved. There is so much waste in Government. Just look at Obama and his spending, it never stops with you guys, tax tax tax. The stimulus is a disaster, look at the pork in that bill. You say Tea Partiers like it is a bad thing.
Proud Democrat: What you are not seeing is that everything has NOT been cut as low as it can go–not even close. County officials are still driving county owned cars and filling up at the county gas pumps. David Craig still has 6 assistants/spokespersons/aides, whatever you want to call them. Facilities and Ops is ordering toilet paper at $90 a case when the county could get it at BJ’s for a fraction of the cost. Oh, that’s right, they don’t have a contract with BJ’s. Multiply these 3 examples every county agency, and we are talking some big bucks. When times are tough, you do what you have to do and if it means the library can only order 3 copies of the latest Stephen King novel instead of 33, so be it. I for one would buy a copy for myself, thus stimulating the economy, if it meant my taxes were not going up again. Open your eyes!
Yes. Let’s go back to the Reagan tax brackets where the top eraners paid 50% in 1982 through 1986.
Oh yes, a progressive tax increase – another label for “redistribution of wealth”.
Were the liberals all stoned when their teachers went over the wonders of percentages? You know, if everyone pays the same PERCENTAGE of tax, then then more you make, the more you pay.
Oh, that’s right, I forgot. There should be a penalty for working hard and being successful, which will make up for those who choose to sit on their subsidized asses and let the others do the work for them. Now that’s fair.
Proud Dem- “harford county is mighty lean”. I think you need to read through the budget submitted for approval…the county has a fund of 25 million set aside for post retirement benefits that increases by 4 million per year. This is the people’s money being held up to pay for future benefits for fat retirements and health care for retirees that are already covered by medicare.
25 million…really are not needed. The benefits should be paid out on a year to year basis out of the operating budget, so that the taxpayer can see its true cost on a year to year basis. This fund does not include paid credits to the state retirement systems as it is funded on an accrual basis and paid out of yearly operating budget.
Except that those benefits are promised to the workers in their “contract” They are earned. It can not be arbitrarily cut from the budget without first renegotiating the contract.
“…just not that much waste in government…” You’re funny.
As for a progressive tax….isn’t that what we’ve already got? Tax rate range is from 10% up to 35% I believe. So, what do you mean by “progressive tax”?
cdev-in the real world when its broke, you fixt it!!!. Harford county can’t afford to keep paying those kinds of benefits post retirement. Contracts can always be renegotiated. We live in an ever changing economic environment. There are almost no private pensions or retirements anymore, but the tax payer needs to keep those “poor and underpaid” teachers and govt employees happy because they work for “less”. The real wage of govt vs. private has been increasing for years now.
That fund does not include teachers who are in the state retirement system. That is county employees only. I know contracts can be renegotiated but that must be done first before you can un budget the money. Also a contract can not be renegotiated for already retired people. Particularly since lots of people took early retirement deals, which that money reflects, and didn’t get replaced. BTW remember that many public employees take less pay for comparable work but get better benefits if you take those wy be prepared to pay them more!
The US Senate bill number is SB3081 and is available on line. http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111/s3081/show
As a democrat but also a fiscal conservative, I have to say that I completely agree with the premise of the tea party. I am sick of paying so much of my tax money to see it so poorly spent and I don’t think we should have to pay a penny more in taxes until we see government run as a fiscally tight ship.
That being said, the present tea party has been infiltrated by the extreme right, who are showing up at rallies with sidearms (what’s up with that?) and signs that are downright disrespectful, and by choosing Sarah Palin as their leader, they have just shown themselves to be anti Obama. But this is a systemic problem that goes back for decades and is bipartisan.
What needs fixing is a government who addresses all of their problems by throwing more money at it, and spends most of their time trying to devise new ways to increase their depleted revenue. It is an American issue, not R or D, so maybe we can start acting like one country stop this obsession with blame and actually accomplish something.
Doug, I agree with you and I am a conservative republican. We have seen the signs in the past with President Bush with bullet holes in his head and other hateful things, these are forgotten about for some reason. The Tea Party movement has people who are just nut jobs but you can not blame the whole movement because of this. Just like I do not blame all democrats for the loons in your party. Lets do term limits just like we do for the President. Both parties have lost there way and are beholding to special interests groups. I like Sarah Palin, read her book. She is not going to run for President. The far left attacks here because they fear what she stands for. I do not see anyone from my party yet who shows me leadership. We need something, all this spending is not helping us or our future Americans. I want a proven conservative leader, either democrat or republican. Like you said it is an American problem.
The left does not fear what Palin stands for, we fear for our country when a percentage of the population responds positively to her empty rhetoric and simplemindedness. I am sure she too could happily live without topnotch libraries and paved roads.
Jingoism is for simple folk who have never gotten beyond the high school mentality of “my team good, your team bad”. Those of you who read that and thought, “Now, what’s the matter with that?” are exactly who I am talking about.
And keep the change!
Im sorry, I keep forgetting that Obama is the smartest man ever in the White House. Of course Sarah Palin is simple minded. And the percentage of the country responding is what will give control back to us crazy conservatives.
As always, if you (the left) don’t have a rational argument, you attack the person.
So typical, so expected, and so sad.
I agree with you, Doug. I was very excited with the tea party idea until the Republican party hijacked them. From what I’ve seen, any politician be they republican or democrat will be more than happy to spend whatever money they can squeeze from anyone or anywhere. Republican or democrat, fiscally, there doesn’t seem to be much difference. I want them ALL out of my wallet and out of my personal life.
Was it you crazy/stupid group of people that decided to caravan through red lights all the way down 22 until Moore’s mill road this afternoon at around 1pm today? If so, I would like to applaud you for being complete nuisances. Literally 20 cars coasting through the intersection of 22 and 543 with total disregard for your fellow citizens.
If it wasn’t the tea party then disregard this. But it wasn’t a funeral procession and the tea party group was having their little rally later that day in the middle of town. You decide.
What ever happened to the idea of a flat tax?
Let’s start the auctioning at 10%…
I think the TEA Party should have, uh, actually went to work on Thursday. It seems many of you spend more time off your jobs to protest. Ironic, considering you keep ranting about people living off public assistance who don’t work.
TEA becomes a bigger and bigger joke with each passing day.
HDG Reader –
So let me get this right you are trying to conflate taking time off from work with collecting public assistance?
And if what you say about Tea Party being a “joke” is true, I guess it shouldn’t matter to you that folks may be wasting their time, right?
Joe
Borrow and Spend Republicans / Tea Party
I am amazed that many of “fiscal conservatives” are so discriminatory with their facts. Rather than painting Democrats as “tax and spend” the Taxed Enough Already crowd should, instead look at the borrow and spend Republicans.
Spending Under President George W. Bush
During his eight years in office, President Bush oversaw a huge increase in government spending. In fact, President Bush increased government spending more than any of the six presidents preceding him, including LBJ. In his last term in office, President Bush increased discretionary outlays by an estimated 48.6 percent.
During his eight years in office, President Bush spent almost twice as much as his predecessor, President Clinton. Adjusted for inflation, in eight years, President Clinton increased the federal budget by 11 percent. In eight years, President Bush increased it by a whopping 104 percent.
Bush Administration Adds $4 Trillion to the National Debt
With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt had grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush’s presidency. It’s the biggest increase under any president in U.S history.
On the day President Bush took office, the national debt stood at $5.674 trillion. The Treasury Department showed the national debt stood at more than $11.909 trillion in 2009. That was a 71.9 percent increase on Mr. Bush’s watch.
In early October of 2008, President Bush asked for and Congress appropriated $700 billion to rescue Wall Street’s financial institutions. Once that was done, the sky was the limit, and the numbers became dizzying.
What the TEA party/Republicans should complain about is that about 25-33% of every tax dollar goes to simply repaying that interest on the national debt that the Republicans/Tea Party ran up. Remember the good old days when President Clinton had federal budget surplus for fiscal year 2000 amounting to at least $230 billion, making it the largest in U.S. history and topping 1999 record surplus of $122.7 billion. That meant the $5.674 trillion national debt of 1999 was reduced by $360 billion in the last three years of the Clinton administration. That represented the largest one-year debt reduction in the history of the United States.
Interest Spent on the National Debt by Year during Bush’s Administration
2009 $383,071,060,815.42
2008 $451,154,049,950.63
2007 $429,977,998,108.20
2006 $405,872,109,315.83
2005 $352,350,252,507.90
2004 $321,566,323,971.29
2003 $318,148,529,151.51
2002 $332,536,958,599.42
2001 $359,507,635,242.41
TOTAL $3,354,184,917,662.61
The money spent on the interest of the National Debt would almost pay for health care for every person in the US. This clarifies what Taxed Enough Already should stand for rather that the nonsense we hear from TEA party demonstrations. To me they represent the worst kind of disingenuousness and a total liberation of facts and reason.
US Taxpayer –
If you’re going to post other people’s words you should at least give them credit, since someone such as yourself with great integrity would not want to be a plagiarist.
Joe
Sorry. The footnotes did not post but they were there..
http://mercatus.org/print/26426
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4486228-500803.html
I agree Joe and although he did not lift an entire piece like Tony did It is disturbingly similar to an AP piece with many of the same words sequentially. What is equally disturbing as Tony is he starts with “I” as if it is his opinion. He too is a plagarist and should start citing his sources.
Cdev –
Agreed and agreed.
Joe
So typical of tea party / republicans, attack the messenger instead of refuting the message.
I am not in the TEA Party and am a registered republican tht is more independent minded. Meaning I only register Republican to retain a say in locl polotics via the primary. I agree with Joe in this case. Did you authentically write the piece above or did you borrow part from an outside source? If you did borrow, which I think you did, then you need to cite the source so we can understand where the statistics came from. Otherwise we must conclude they are made up like our amdactivist who makes up her stats on illegal immigration. I think your stats are authentic because I have seen them in print before but you need to cite your source. It is simply a matter of intellectual honesty.
You can’t see the post from April 17, 2010 at 9:34 pm? This site did not include the links I sent with my comment. I’m sorry you can’t see the links now.
no we can’t. For future reference since links must be moderated on here to prevent spam it is best to cite the source by mentioning the author, publication date.
i.e. jim smith Washington Post april 30, 2010
don’t use a link. My appologies for jumping on you but it is aggervating when people cite statistics and you can not have an intelligent debate because you can not look at the source of the statistics.
Get over the Bush administration.
Obama is here and now. He is a most disingenuous piece of shit. Has done nothing but led from the left contrary to everything he campaigned on. 3 more years (hopefully less) of this POS.
Perlosi, Reid, Waxman, Frank and Beans all running the hill. Thank goodness for movements like the Tea Party to counteract Liberal Elites that want to run our lives. Liberals have done wonders for Black Communities.
Thus we need to elect a real fiscal conservative not a fake one who talks the talk but does not walk the walk!
Braveheart, we ARE over the Bush administration, AND we will never miss him! President Obama is NOT a POS, as your ignorant self described him, (although it sounds as thought YOU may be).
Let’s see….do I want to describe myself as a “Teabagger” or a “Liberal Elite”? Alex….I’ll take door #2!
P.S. You may be a POS, but you also sound like a racist!
As I’ve always said “most Republicans aren’t racist, but certainly, most racists are Republicans) You KNOW I’m correct.
B.S. Detector – you are clearly a POS. Let me guess – you are black and in your warped small mind anybody disagrees with a black is a racist.
Also – judging your comments, anyone who is an independent thinker and self starter and Not looking for entitlements is a racist.
Look at the facts about Obama and his first year in office and you’ll see that he really is a disingenuous POS.
Well I guess the KKK is alive and well in Harford County. Several of you made a point of claiming you are not racists. However when you do not condemn such a hateful tirade, you are condoning it. And in my book, that too, is racist. Remember, all that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/18/weekinreview/18zernike.html?ref=todayspaper
See this excellent article from this Sunday’s NYT that describes much. “The Tea Party supporters recycle their language from the conservative movements of the early 1960s in response to the Kennedy presidency, the resistance to busing, gay rights and the Carter administration in the mid 1970s, and the opposition to the Clinton health care plan in the early 1990s.
“It is entirely predictable,” Mr. Perlstein said. In the poll, Tea Party supporters said they want to focus on economic issues. But the widest gulfs between Tea Party supporters and others — Republicans and the public in general — are in their responses to questions about social issues, from gay marriage to abortion to immigration to global warming.
And they were almost unanimous in their dislike of President Obama. Overwhelmingly, they said he does not share the values most Americans live by and does not understand the needs and problems of people like them. They are significantly more likely than Republicans or the general public to say that too much attention has been made of the problems facing black people, and that the policies of the Obama administration favor blacks over whites and the poor over the rich or the middle class.
And 3 in 10 do not think he was born in this country.
The president’s race adds a new element to conservative anger….”
Mr Braveheart: Please explain. What exactly do you mean by: “3 more years (hopefully less) of this POS.” I am particularly interested in your clarification of “hopefully less.”
I am sure your abbreviation of POS was actually a mistype of POTUS, right. Just shortening it.
Thank you,
Kim
Miss McCarthy,
Hopefully he is impeached and removed from office.
You are free to assume whatever you’d like as far as POS. Obama is a POTUS POS.
and you can thank the present democrat leaders and congress for continuing on . bush left obama a $1.3 trillion debt. in 43 days obama doubled it. now at $12 trillion in 15 months. Yet bush had large responsibilities like 911 and katrina. You can thank the present administration for all the bail outs to wall street and GE who is the parent company of cnn and others. You do remember the media that continued on with obama’s lies don’t you?? Well they got paid back handsomely. Thats why their ratings have dropped. And you can thank Dutch ruppersberger, cardin and mikulski for approving the bailouts also without reading any of it. So look at the present scenario and monstrocities and get your facts correct. $12 trillion and all we doing is padding ceo’s wallets. Give it a rest.
US taxpayer –
How much has and will Pres. Obama increased the deficit and debt?
TEA Party folks have been critical of Bush spending, in fact they don’t care for big spenders of any party.
Joe
Oh really! Show me one time when any of you criticized a Republican during Bush’s years.
US Taxpayer –
All you have to do is search Google and you’d discover that the TEA Party didn’t exist until about April 15, 2009.
Joe
OK how about any of criticized a Republican since April 15, 2009.
US Taxpayer –
John McCain, Charlie Crist, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mark Sanford, etc…
Joe
Look in our own backyard – David Craig – nothing but a school administrator – knows nothing about business policy and fiscal responsibility. May be a nice man but he has to go.
J.C., President Obama has increased the national debt, kinda like “W” did. He bailed out big banking and LOWERED the Federal Income Taxes for the vast majority of Americans (to the tune of $173 BILLION dollars this year alone!) I am one of the vast majority of citizens that paid LESS in federal income taxes this year, so I’m speaking from experience. So much for trickle down / supply side / Reaganomics! It NEVER works (but it sure puts a band-aid on the pain!). The difference between President Obama’s tax reduction and “W”‘s tax reduction is that “W”s tax breaks benefitted the wealthy more than the middle class. Obama’s does the opposite. Damn facts just keep poppin’ up to put a damper on the right wing propaganda machine, spread by the same.
BS Detector –
How much has and will Pres. Obama increase the deficit and debt?
How will he pay for all his gifts to the American people?
Joe
Hey B.S. Detector
I detect BS in just about everthing you write. Lets get something clear – Us productive Americans don’t study and work hard to earn more to feed the appetite of an entitlement society. Move to some European country where it is tolerated. We have had it with the likes of you and it will stop one way or another.
Hey Braveheart, I know who you are. I may be “B.S. Detector”, but you’re B.S. from the City of Aberdeen. HA!
Hey Sxit For Brains guess again.
No…..Richard.
US Taxpayer –
John McCain, Charlie Crist, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Mark Sanford, etc…
Joe
People are angry because $$$ are being wasted on social welfare, wars, special interests and pork.
75% of the federal budget is spend on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, War funding and Debt.
Now you add Health Care to the mix and what we have is a nanny state that is already involved in housing, retirement, education and raising every other offspring by absent parents. We as a country are going down the slope of welfare society in which no one does anything productive and we just provide each other with services that other emerging economies will do cheaper and more efficiently. Our nation’s wealth no longer belongs to those who work and pay taxes, instead those who “need” stuff are getting it funded thru federal, state and local taxes that we the taxpayer have to provide.
Same thing goes for corporate america who with their army of accountants and attorneys allows them to not have to pay taxes on their profits. When they do have profits they get to deduct them from previous losses. When can the regular tax payer deduct from their earnings this years loss of income and work hours due to the state of economy?
As I see it, we need to have a stronger voice in how our money is spent. Be it democrat or republican, if you are not reducing our nation’s debt, you are not a fiscally responsible politician we need representing us in Congress.
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258
Here is a breakdown that seems to show your figures are a little off.
I don’t think what I said and the “real” numbers as stated in your link were off by much. I said about 75% of the budget goes to those things outlined. In reality is more like 87%, not bad on my part since I didn’t really look them up anywhere, just basic intuition. But thanks for pointing them out.
in all fairness you didn’t say “about 75%” you said 75%. This leads a reader to believe you know that to be fact. by saying you estimate we then know it is your intuition.
cdev-thanks for the teaching moment. My command of the english language may not be as good as yours, but I was just pointing out some numbers in general terms. It turns out, I short changed the real numbers which makes my argument even stronger.
no problem but I didn’t want to see people get snotty with each other over a simple misunderstanding.
No matter what the numbers say, in truth govt needs to get out of my pocket and get smaller and smarter.
The Tea Party is all smoke and no fire. They seem to want more control from big business! I guess the thinking is that the more profit for millionaires the better it will be for them. Is Goldman Sachs an example of big business they like? Or health care companies? Or oil companies? They complain about “too many taxes” yet when the president lowers them, they complain about that. I don’t get them.
This is an excellent piece:
A national deficit of trust
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/19/AR2010041903937.html
By Eugene Robinson
Tuesday, April 20, 2010
The overhyped Tea Party phenomenon is more about symbolism and screaming than anything else. A “movement” that encompasses gun nuts, tax protesters, devotees of the gold standard, Sarah Palin, insurance company lobbyists, “constitutionalists” who have not read the Constitution, Medicare recipients who oppose government-run health care, crazy “birthers” who claim President Obama was born in another country, a contingent of outright racists (come on, people, let’s be real) and a bunch of fat-cat professional politicians pretending to be “outsiders” is not a coherent intellectual or political force.
Eugene Robinson is a racist POS. Funny – how the only readers that the DC Post, NY Times, Newsweek and Time Mag have left are left wing liberals like yourself.
US Taxpayer, if you were smart enough, which you obviously are not, you’d realize that the the movement going on is much bigger than the Tea Party. The Tea Party is just the tip of the iceberg. Independent moderate Americans with Christian values are going to take back our Country and restore the Government to something that behaves accordingly.
As usual, Eugene Robinson and the rest of the Left Elite simply don’t understand what is happening. By critizing the Tea party they are actually alienating more and more Americans. US Taxpayer – you keep posting your propoganda. It only helps our cause and makes us stronger.
Get on board or get out of the way (I hear they accept your kind in Holland). Good luck,
Wow Braveheart…
What a way to make yourself sound like a condescending Ass.
Speaks volumes for you and the other jerks in your movement with “Christian values” who put down others as if they are not intelligent enough to have an opinion.
Wow John…. why not make the same statement about Eugene Robinson. Oh I see – when protests are involved – you defend a liberal that attacks a conservative in office (social justice) and you call it Treason when the a liberal/socialist is protested. We see it in Big Media (shrinking quickly) all the time.
In my opinion – Obama and the rest of the Media Elite minions that are trying to take away our free will and redistribute our wealth are Disingenuous (is that proper enough for you John). People like you, McCarthy, and US Taxpayer have no answers to explain why Obama has led from the left when he campaiged on leading from the middle. You have no answers so the only thing you can hang your hat on is a few harsh words. Keep trying to divert the conversation.
Unfortuantely people like you, Kim McCarthy, and US Taxpayer either agree with the direction that Obama
is taking the Country or simply don’t understand.
No Braveheart,
I just think that your kneejerk responses of calling anybody with a differing opinion a POS makes you sound like an ass and diminishes any credibility for your argument.
YOu know NOTHING of my opinions about Obama or the current issues, my educational background, or my intelligence, yet you just to the conclusion that I am either ignorant or misled. Again it only maked you sound like an arrogant jerk.
If you want people to listen to your point of view, try being a little tolerant of the opinions of others. If youwant to be closed-minded and dismissive, expect the same of the other side.
Braveheart –
I agree that calling the President a POS weakens your position and point-of-view.
Conservatives have typically been about attacking the progressive/liberal positions and policies, while progressives/liberals more often then not attack conservatives personally on both an individual and group bases.
Progressives/liberals can’t beat the wisdom and soundness of conservative ideals and plans so they are only left with ad hominen attacks.
So, I recommend kindly and gently that you focus on cogent arguments and leave the viciousness to the other side.
Joe
You know, I am used to a lot of back and forth on this site, but come on “Braveheart,” you take the cake with your name calling and cursing. I wish others that have your same political mindset would call you out. Political discourse is a wonderful attribute of the American system. In fact, it is what makes us so successful. But, when you resort to cursing and telling people that are proud US citizens to move, you are really mean spirited and ignorant.
“Independent moderate Americans with Christian values ”
That group has always controled this country. But please remember the TEA party, as it professes is based on Conservatives or at least the fiscally conservatives. Moderates are by definition not fiscally conservative. The group you decide represents 40% of the electroate but remember they are not single issue voters and never totally support one candidtae but to get elected that is the group you must appeal to.
I for one truly pray that US Taxpayer is representative of the entire progressive/Marxist/socialist/democrat way of thinking. The easiest way to defeat an opponent is to let them underestimate your abilities. Tossing rocks at the TEA movement is not going to turn the opinion of the people within this and other other like minded thinkers. Interestingly these leftists have confused a movement with a party. That is a party like the repiblicrats or the demicans. The party in TEA party refers to a gala or an event. You don’t join an event, yo participate in it. With the aforementioned political parties you don’t participate, you tow their line. Please continue to rant US Taxguy. You make our movement stronger with each and every rant.
I rest my case!
Please expand upon that. I fail to understand what your case is at all.
Well said Dave and Braveheart I certainly understand your your frustration and concern. As long as 10% of us are paying 75% of this country’s taxes, tempers will continue to flare on both sides. The good news is that the entitled group spends so much time standing in the free cheese line that they don’t even feel the need to protect their entitlements with their votes. I mean heck, when you truly believe that you are owed something why work to protect it? Think about it. Food Stamps are no longer a stop gap measure for the needy; its a never ending credit card restocked every month with my money and the other producers in this country.
Myself and others believe that this should be a land of opportunity not entitlements. You should have a house only if you can afford one. You should have as many children as you can afford. You should be allowed to be obese and suck on 3 packs of smokes a day if you can afford the insurance premiums and or medical bills that are sure to follow.
I only want one entitlement. I want to be entitled to keep as much of my hard earned money as possible and give none of it to a government that continues to give away free fish instead of fishing poles.
You all could not be more wrong. As confirmed by the CBO, the average tax rate for the highest earning families has fallen 11.4% since 1979 while only falling 4% for the lowest 80%. The reason the highest earners are paying a larger PORTION of the federal income taxes is because they are earning SO much more. And, as pointed out by US Taxpayer, they are making more money and not producing any tangibles for society. They are making money off of money and steering average investors into bad deals (see Goldman Sachs). If you make something – computers, cars, roads, whatever, more power to you to make as much as the market will allow. But, if you are merely making billions of dollars in salary off of money (again, see Goldman Sachs that has set aside $5.5 BILLION for salaries and bonuses – up 17% from last year), then, yes, we – as in the citizens of the US – we have a problem.
Kim McCarthy –
Thank you for pointing out that the burden of federal income taxes is disproportionately levied against the highest earning Americans who also happen to be the folks that provide jobs to the rest of us and produce products.
I suggest you join me in thanking these productive Americans who in 2008 generated $14.6 Trillion in US Gross Domestic Products (GDP).
Now if we can get federal income taxes on individuals and corporations reduced we can look forward to greater productivity and increased tax revenue.
Joe
No, Joe, once again you do not get the simple math. The tax is not disproportionately levied against the highest earners. It is that the highest earners are earning so much more than the average tax payer that their amount seems so high. The top 1% of the population takes in over 49% of the total wages. Joe, do you know what the top 1% is? In 2007 that was OVER $348,000!
Kim McCarthy –
These high wage earners and high-tax payers didn’t steal this money they earned it and risked their capital.
Don’t you agree that if people work hard and risk their investment money they should be rewarded for it? If they lose on their investments no one covers their losses!
Our capitalist economy does not work if the capitalists don’t invest in it. And we can’t all work for the government, can we?
Joe
you found an article against the tea party movement. must of taken some time. the TEA = Taxed Enough Already movement is just that. Seems we managed to fire a few liberals with more on the way..FYI.. I am a democrat.. shamely
I agree with the last part but there is still a need for govt and that will require them to be in your wallett but I agree it can be less.
AL slow down.all I wanted was a ‘Free’ ride. some think I have detested for years. my name is Jimmy I will take all you give me.
Your’re no moocher Vet. You protected my freedoms and allowed me to grow financially in the best country on earth. Now you of all people have to see that those freedoms are now being threatened from within by folks every bit as dangerous to our quality of life as those you fought against. Thank you so much for your service.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-KtZDi7pcY
I trust that this common sense reform of Wall Street meets with your support. The option is allowing big banks and big business to rob us blind. Who could not support this?
No wonder Braveheart gets so mad; with moochers and looters like McCarthy and US Taxpayer I feel the frustration as well. Overt financial penalties for successful people that will provide entitlements to those who didn’t earn them is just wrong. Class warfare aimed at leveling the playing field will bankrupt this country in 10 years. Take a look a Greece today and that’s the economic model for the U.S. in 10 years if we continue to hinder producers from succeeding.
Thanks Al. My health report was not what I hoped.congestive heart failure. presumptive to agent orange. Daibetes type two. presumptive to agent orange.
The vietnam vet’s. are expected to be dead by 2015. and the list of ailment’s continue. I have lived a hard life but a good one.
Gary Owen & Semper Fi.
Braveheart and Al’s answers are why I think Tea Bag Republicans are nothing but tools of the elitist rich. Why would anyone want to allow these people from Goldman Sachs and Wall Street to rob working Americans is beyond belief. They are responsible for tens of thousands of lost American jobs (but China has had a corresponding increase in jobs).
These rich elitists have been rewarded for throwing thousands into the streets due to foreclosures caused by “successful people”. They are fraudulent in their dealings with working, honest taxpayers and the Republicans bailed them out.
You think “…leveling the playing field will bankrupt this country in 10 years.” This country is already bankrupt and China owns us. It was not Democrats that did this, but borrow and spend Republicans. Rather than stating that “these high wage earners and high-tax payers didn’t steal this money they earned it and risked their capital,” you should recognize that the exact opposite is true.
You stated that… “If they lose on their investments no one covers their losses!” Hello! It was our tax money the Republicans spent to bail them out. All they got for their corrupt dealing was billion dollar bonuses. You’re in favor of that?!
Basically our biggest differences are based upon the premise that you trust big business to look out for your best interests and I don’t. While big government is not perfect, big business is evil.
US Taxpayer –
I have had enough of you derogatory and malicious use of the term “teabag”.
Let me ask you do you use that term because you like to describe Tea Party activists with a vile sexual act?
You lack civility and are a crude boor. I believe you do not possess the ability to engage in thoughtful discourse and must resort to the employment of toxic insult to malign your adversaries because your liberal/progressive arguments are weak and poorly constructed.
You really should consider not acting like an insulting internet troll.
Joe
In plain words Joe….Blah, Blah, Blah. Get a life.
B.S. Detector! –
Maybe folks would pay attention to you if you actually had something to say?
Joe
Congratulations, you’ve just proven my point (and you don’t even realize it!)
Joe,
It’s interesting that when US Taxpayer pointed out various points that indicate differences in thoughts between the two sides of this debate, you immediately jump on the term “tea bag” instead of arguing the points.
Perhaps he uses that term because it is a term that describes a sexual practice of dominance over others — very much like the elitist rich are attempting to display their own dominance over the working class?
Maybe he used the term “Tea Bag republican” because the TEA party has chosen to use the tea bag as a symbol of their movement. (as displayed on various posters and signs at their rallies — I’ve seen photos of people wearing tea bags on their hats/clothing etc…)
Maybe he said Teabag just to get you riled up?…
No matter what, your response did nothing to refute his opinion that the rich elitist attitudes of the tea party republicans are the real problem, and that the crux of the debate is whether to trust Big Business or Big Government.
Joe, Maybe people would pat attention to YOUR opinions more if you actually had something to say other than to harp on the vulgarity of the term “Teabag” — it seems like you have an unhealthy obsession with the term — or maybe you just fall back on that when you cant put together a good response to the other side.
John –
It’s about civility.
Joe
What would you know about that?
US taxpayer –
I’m civil, and people like me, they really really like me!
Joe
Well said, thank you.
Historically, all political parties or movements are lampooned through their mascot – whether chosen by them or imposed on them. Perhaps the TEA Party will come to embrace the tea bag as their apt moniker as Democratic Party has the donkey.
Kim McCarthy –
A bit disingenuous on your part don’t you think there Kim?
Joe
Ummm, no, I really don’t know what you mean. I was serious.
Don’t worry, Kim…
Joe is just back on his kick where he harps on the use of the term “Teabag” instead of responding to the actual issue in the posts.
He speaks of civility when he calls others boors and guttersnipes on a regular basis. What a hypocrite.
To be fair Jim, Joe has not used those terms in a while!
He called US Taxpayer a “crude boor” in comment 16 of this thread.
Jim compared to his previous use of those terms simply because a person disagreed with him he is much better. Furthermore we should all be aware of Joe’s annoyance with the term and yet people continue to use it.
Joe:
Sorry but this is the symbol you chose. Why don’t you Google TEA party symbol and learn what you’re talking about before you attack me. The TEA Party sells T-shirts with a tea bag, pins with a tea bag, even calling cards with a tea bag. I don’t know what you’re complaining about. Or is this your FOX news strategy of attacking the messenger instead of answering the message? However, if it will keep you on message, you can be the Tea Party although it is really an inappropriate symbol as the Boston Tea Party was about taxation WITHOUT representation. We do have representation.
See my post of April 13th.
U.S. Taxpayer,
You said “We do have representation”. You are partly correct. It is true there are elected officials (both republican and democratic) that are there to represent us and maybe you are ok with the job they are doing. However, their actions don’t represent my values and the values of the majority of the Americans.
The Tea Party and other similar groups and individuals will take back the Government.
Hopefully we can accomplish our goal before the entire society is completely dependent on the hand-outs of government.
US taxpayer –
No need for you to be obtuse since you know full well that teabag and teabagger sexual terms are not Tea Party lexicon. I suggest you stop being so boorish, childish and immature.
Your use of these vile insults diminishes your already weak liberal/progressive positions.
Joe
I for one have never felt that I had any representation in Washington. Not one little bit! Yes the Smurf, the obtuse and ultra liberal Cardin along with the Rupp and Kratovil are all feeding at the public trough but they damn sure don’t represent anything that I believe in. Those of us in Maryland who are the productive are being screwed by these public hogs and I think it’s high time to force their cloven hoofs out of my feed trough.
Braveheart and Dave, you may not like your representation but you do have it! The colonist had no representation of any sorts in parliment. DC has a delegate who can not vote which is worse then you have. If you do not like your representation feel free to help vote them out in November. You have 2 senators, one who is up for re-election and a representative from your district who is also up for re-election.
US Taxpayer, we’ll give you and John the benefit of the doubt and just assume you are playing dumb for the sake of stirring up trouble. The alternative is too pathetic to even consider.
Phill Dirt –
Opinions they do vary.
Joe
B.S. Detector! –
I don’t think you could find the “point” of of a pencil with both hands,a map and a month of Sundays to do it, let alone make a cogent point that would interest anyone.
Joe
There are people who resent the wealthy for their wealth. You can label it greed, envy or whatever. The fact is, their motivation is not healthy. They strech reason and bend truth and work the figures to make it seem like they are suffering because of the wealthy.
I’m not wealthy. I learned a long time ago though, if you raise my bosses tax by a dollar, that increase gets taken from the customer first, and me second, and the boss will only pay when everythings been cut to the bone. If I’m a good producer for my boss, I’m an asset to him and the company. It behooves him to keep me happy and productive and the company gains stability from this. On the other hand, if I force my boss into concessions, like a union for example, we’ve taken the first step to an adversarial relationship. I give him my time, skill and labor in return for a paycheck. If I feel like I’m not being paid what I’m worth, I can go to work for his competition.
This is the trap. Lazy, unskilled and undependable workers have flooded the work force. They demand much and deliver little. The boss now has to hire two, to do the job of one. Nine out of ten workers meet this discription. Personnel are in constant flux because it’s so hard to have a worker stay on the job for any length of time.
Obama has created an enviroment that encourages business to stop expansion, bank their money, and wait to see what the next shoe to drop will be. Many, many workers will have their hours cut in the future, to keep the mandated health care costs from bankrupting the company, or, they will layoff and downsize to get below the 50 employee minimum.
The wealthy, if things continue to go the way they are, will pack up and leave the United States, because being wealthy, they have the means to do so. Watch for a string of countries to pop up offering tax incentives to the American wealthy. Tax an American wherever they reside you say? They will renounce their citizenship and are beginning to do so already.
Capitalism works, as long as people don’t bite the hand that feeds them. All of us are free to leave any job for greener pastures. You just have to be marketable in reality, not just in your mind.
John Galt –
Very Ayn Randian of you!
Demonizing the producers/wealthy is a popular pastime of liberals/progressives. The attractiveness of class warfare is too much to resist especially if it leaves liberals/progressives with just the quality of their ill-conceived and unworkable ideas to argue.
And yes the one-thing that liberals/progressives do not understand is that Atlas can and will shrug depriving them of the fuel they need to feed the government beast and line their pockets. Producers may or may not leave the US for attractive tax havens, however they will make strategic investments to protect their assets.
Joe
Joe and John it could not be explained with any more clarity. Atlas will shrug.
Al J Thong –
It makes sense to you because you likely read more than the Democrat/liberal/progressive talking points which are regurgitated regularly by various posters on this discussion forum.
Additionally, in order to have an economic understanding a person must have a basic financial knowledge of markets and the requirement of capital to fuel an economy. Unfortunately most people are economically and financially illiterate.
Joe
The interest we must pay each year on the National Debt that borrow and spend Tea Party Republicans have burden us with since 2000 is so much better than the quaint spend as you go theory. In 2009 it was $383,071,060,815.42 and in 2008 it was $451,154,049,950.63. BTW much of this money is paid to China who is happily using it to undercut American jobs.
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/ir/ir_expense.htm
But I guess, as Joe says…”in order to have an economic understanding a person must have a basic financial knowledge of markets and the requirement of capital to fuel an economy. Unfortunately most people are economically and financially illiterate.” Tell me Joe where does it say it is better to run our government on a MasterCard? I must have missed that part.
US Taxpayer –
“Tell me Joe where does it say it is better to run our government on a MasterCard?” US Taxpayer
Are you saying that government should spend less, borrow less, eliminate unnecessary departments, be more accountable to taxpayers and have a balanced budget? I do.
Joe
No. I am saying that we should eliminate big business loopholes so they pay their fair share. I believe I trust government to look after my interests more than I do of big business. I am not willing to have you determine what unnecessary departments are or what we should spend less on (except interest on the debt). But I see you refuse to deal with any of those issues.
US Taxpayer –
Let’s just have a Flat Tax on individuals and corporations.
We need a free private-run economy not a government-run economy.
Joe
US Taxpayer & Kim McCarthy –
Hate to burst your liberal/progressive self-image with the opinion and research of Peter Schweizer: “Liberals Are More Selfish Than Conservatives”
http://newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/Peter-Schweizer/2008/06/02/id/323909
You may also benefit by reading Ayn Rand’s “Atlas Shrugged”?
Joe
US Taxpayer & Kim McCarthy –
Liberals more likely to cheat on Taxes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc5v0h3nAk8
Please say it isn’t so US & Kim.
Joe
Ann Rand, Peter Schweizer…. Do you want me to pull up the chalk board so you can regale us with some “facts” from Beck, too?
Kim McCarthy –
I like Beck’s music!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgSPaXgAdzE
Ayn Rand and Peter Schweizer write better.
Joe
None of the Tea Party Republicans have ever cited any facts or statistics to support their arguments. They just repeat Fox talking points. But I have hope that one of them will do more.
John Galt, have you ever looked at the tax rates of other countries? The US is a tax haven for rich people. They pay fewer taxes now than they have since Eisenhower was president. In 1952 they paid 91% in the top bracket while only paying 35% today. Rather than Americans that will “… pack up and leave the United States…” foreigners want to move here. Do you think a rich person from Austria, for example, who pays 50% personal income tax AND 20% VAT tax wouldn’t rather pay our taxes? Even China has a tax rate of 45% and a VAT of 17%. So please spare me your false doomed projections. Fear mongering only works on FOX and TEA Parties. Your argument for rich elitism is not logical. The reason we have less employment is big business would rather increase profits at the expense of the worker. Big business has a constant record, even today, of exploiting the worker unless the government protects us. Do coal mines in West Virginia ring a bell? Remember it was unions that created the middle class, not corporations.
The only “people” who move to other countries are corporations who move to offshore locations dodging their fair share of taxes. It’s so admirable of them to stick us with the cost of protecting citizens, building roads, education our children and all of the things you seem to take for granted. Moreover, the IRS disclosed that 14,700 tax scofflaws facing government crackdown admit hiding money overseas. This includes millionaires and drug lords. The IRS reports that some of the different types of entities and schemes being used in Abusive Offshore Tax Schemes include:
1. Foreign trusts
2. Foreign corporations
3. Foreign (offshore) partnerships, LLCs and LLPs
4. International Business Companies (IBCs)
5. Offshore private annuities
6. Private banking (U.S. and offshore)
7. Personal investment companies
8. Captive insurance companies
9. Offshore bank accounts and credit cards
10. Related-party loans
The IRS goes on to report that individuals have stashed an estimated $1 trillion in offshore accounts, the government says, allowing them to avoid up to $70 billion in taxes each year. The federal government estimates that abusive offshore schemes by corporations cost our Treasury an estimated $30 billion in tax revenue as well. If you people really are about Taxed Enough Already you should not sustain multi-millionaires who are using you to pay their fair share of taxes of 100 billion a YEAR. But I guess you are one of those millionaires.
Please note that all reference links were removed as The Dagger will not post them. TMI I guess. This is a repost
US taxpayer
If the IRS knows of $30 billion of lost taxes each year, why doesn’t the IRS go after the taxes?
I’ll give you a reason why tax rates shouldn’t be raised. Because Americans can spend their own money more efficiently than the Government. When I want to give to Charity – I’ll give to the Red Cross or a local Church. I don’t need the Government to give my money to groups like ACORN.
US taxguy;
You are sipping the kool aid too slowly. The fact is that an increasing number of citizens, this one included, are saying that there is no hope on the horizon after this bozo gets done in DC. There are plenty of countries, no not France or Germany or England or for that matter China, that are more than willing to accommodate us if we will move to their country and transfer our holdings as well. The tax advantages are not just for the super wealthy, but extend all the way down to us working slobs. These other countries recognize the brain trust as well as wealth that we can bring.
When “Atlas shrugs” you and the rest of your “tax those rich bastards” friends are going to be left trying to figure out how to support four or five generations of parasites. Good luck.
Dave if you want to leave then leave. I doubt you will be happy because that other country with lower taxes may not have the same level of development or other freedoms you enjoy.
As a practical matter people will first migrate to cheaper States within the United States before leaving the country and over time the ex-migration from the United States to countries with attractive economics, services, amenities and vibrant English-speaking communities would only occur. There will be no immediate mass exodus.
Besides it would take time for the liberal/progressives to raise a socialist flag over America and I believe that it won’t happen because the sensible majority of center-right citizens are going to repel these self-loathing despots.
The United States of America’s best days are in front of us.
Joe
I am still waiting for ANY facts or statistics to support your arguments.
US Taxpayer –
President Obama has raised taxes with the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) of 2010.
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/04/15/obamacare-taxes-deep-impact/
The President isn’t done raising taxes. There is a high probability that the Bush Tax Cuts will be discontinued. Cap and Trade is a tax increase. And he has floated the idea of an insidious European-style Value Added Tax (VAT).
Joe
Gee thanks Cdev. I was just waiting for permission from someone who knows so much more than me. For what it is worth, I have been looking into “other” locations for quite a while. Initially I looked into other states that don’t punish the productive as harshly as Maryland, but then shifted my sites to other countries as I came to realize that too many people here don’t appreciate or for that matter even realize what makes the USA so unique. Believe me I can enjoy a tremendous life style in another country, with all the same freedoms and considerably more security than I have here. I am not alone in these thoughts. A great number of us who have spent time in other countries are in fact planning to disassociate ourselves from this place. As I said before good luck with that distribution of wealth thing.
Wow, Dave, good luck. I assume you are going to follow Rush to Costa Rica – where of course, they have public health care. See the difference between you and the TEA Party and me and the Democratic Party is that we don’t want to leave. We love the United States. No researching of other countries here. I consider myslef very luck that my ancestors chose to come here – legally and some illegally (gasp). I am willing to work with the political system and realize that the elections are where we are able to make our influence known. It must be stressful to live with so much hate in your system for our country. I do feel sorry for you. Good luck in whichever wonderful country you choose to move to!
By Dave and don’t forget to write….asumming you are in a free country. Don’t let the door hit you where the good lord split you!
Thanks for the nice thoughts Cdev and Kim. In response to your question Kim, I didn’t know that Rush was making any plans, don’t listen to him. I won’t be following anyone. I don’t need someone to hold my hand and guide me. I managed to get out of the nanny state school system before they were able to totally destroy my mind. There are several countries in mind but no final decisions as yet. Whether they have socialized medicine or not is also not a factor. Interestingly Costa Rica has a totally “free” socialized medical system that expats qualify for, but the wait for treatment is ungodly and they offer private insurance that qualifies you to go to the head of the line. Just about every one of the countries where the government runs the system have the same procedure.
For all of you who really want to see a fix to our system take a look at Australia.
Dave the Rush moving announcement was very big in the news. Rush Claimed if the health care bill passed he was moving to Costa Rica because they had better health care. Lo and behold you diagnosed their systems ills and yet Rush has not moved! She is essentially saying you are not moving! I lso don’t think you are serious about moving either and trying to claim you are doing something you have no plan on doing!
Thanks Cdev. The reality is that I have been at this since long before health care came into play. Part of my retirement planning always relied on a stable and useful dollar. It became evident some time ago that the dollar was going to be sucking hind tit and I began repositioning and changing plans. I simply don’t want to be a greeter at Wal Mart. The previous administration didn’t do anything to create a stable atmosphere and this one is, in my estimation, even worse. This isn’t just a rant. It’s the reality of a long process and I know many more who have the same intentions.
Cost Rica is still on my radar, principally because of the huge number of former special operations folk who have retired there. It is VERY secure and far from being a banana republic. It is not the final choice however.
As far as Rush, I don’t have the time or energy to think about or follow his stuff. If he hit the news I ignored it.
BIG BUSINESS PAYS LITTLE OR NO TAXES SO THE MIDDLE CLASS CAN
Joe:
You must think that only middle class Americans should pay taxes. This is just wrong. If you are taxed too much it is because you Tea Party Republicans allow big business to dodge their fair share.
According to Forbes, General Electric managed to make $10.3 billion in pretax income, but paid nothing into the U.S. Treasury, as it counted its losses in the U.S., while registering its profits overseas. As Forbes put it, “GE Capital has displayed an uncanny ability to lose lots of money in the U.S. (posting a $6.5 billion loss in 2009), and make lots of money overseas (a $4.3 billion gain).”
And then there’s Exxon-Mobil, which paid more in income taxes than any other U.S. company last year, just none of it to the U.S. Exxon Mobil Corp. reported a profit of $45.2 billion for 2008, breaking its own record for a U.S. company, even as its fourth-quarter earnings fell 33 percent from a year ago.
Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi.
No wonder that of $15 billion in income taxes last year, Exxon paid none of it to Uncle Sam, and has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas.
Instead, the $15 billion was divided among the countries where Exxon has set up one of its hundreds of foreign subsidiaries. In total, Exxon 122 foreign subsidiaries, including 32 in countries that are officially labeled tax havens by the U.S. government. It has 18 subsidiaries in the Bahamas, and 3 each in the Cayman Islands, Hong Kong, and Singapore.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-zero-taxes/
Let’s say- for example- that these huge multi-national corporations earned all this money. Where does the money go- the profits, I mean.
Who owns these companies?
http://moneycentral.msn.com/detail/stock_quote?symbol=xom
http://moneycentral.msn.com/ownership?Holding=Mutual+Fund+Ownership&Symbol=XOM
http://moneycentral.msn.com/ownership?Holding=Mutual+Fund+Ownership&Symbol=GE
Maybe XOM and GE don’t pay corporate taxes, but the holders of the stock surely pay gains taxes if the prices go up.
When government gets tied up with the private sector, we get very bad deals for the taxpayer (like the Beechtree Bailout). That’s what you should be complaining about.
One thing would solve all of this. THE FAIR TAX. Get the books and read them. It would do away with income taxes and the IRS. Everyone criminals, tourists, and people who are in this country illegal would pay the same tax. This would tax consumption and not production. Then we would no longer have this argument. If I make a million dollars I want to keep my million dollars. I would have more money and I would buy more things and pay my fair share of taxes. Democrats and Republicans have ignored this for years. And the Messiah promised not to raise taxes on the middle class but he has and now is considering a VAT tax. He is a POS liar socialist.
This is a VAT (value added tax) with another name. Retired Cop you are a tool of the rich elite and are too bias to realize it. Calling the President a “POS liar socialist” only proves what a racist you really are. Below is a description of the “Fair Tax” from their web site:
The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.
The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer
If you think that this simplistic concept would raise enough money to pay for government expenditures (e.g., your pension, the military, roads, schools, etc.) you have not done the math. Do you really think that a VAT would generate enough income? The only thing that would do is throw the country into a depression even worst that the one caused by Bush Republicans as everyone would stop buying goods and services. Remember probation? It would cause the black market to flourish. We would become a nation of criminals as everyone would try to weasel out of VAT taxes.
It is better to have big business pay it’s Fair Share rather than for you and me.
This is a VAT (value added tax) with another name. Retired Cop you are a tool of the rich elite and are too bias to realize it. Calling the President a “POS liar socialist” only proves what a racist you really are. Below is a description of the “Fair Tax” from their web site:
The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.
The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer
If you think that this simplistic concept would raise enough money to pay for government expenditures (e.g., your pension, the military, roads, schools, etc.) you have not done the math. Do you really think that a VAT would generate enough income? The only thing that would do is throw the country into a depression even worst that the one caused by Bush Republicans as everyone would stop buying goods and services. Remember probation? It would cause the black market to flourish. We would become a nation of criminals as everyone would try to weasel out of VAT taxes.
It is better to have big business pay its Fair Share rather than for you and me.
This is a VAT (value added tax) with another name. Retired Cop you are a tool of the rich elite and are too bias to realize it. Calling the President a “POS liar socialist” only proves what a racist you really are. Below is a description of the “Fair Tax” from their web site (URL removed):
“The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities. The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn.”
If you think that this simplistic concept would raise enough money to pay for government expenditures (e.g., your pension, the military, roads, schools, etc.) then you have not done the math. Do you really think that a VAT would generate enough income? The only thing that would do is throw the country into a depression even worst that the one caused by Bush Republicans as everyone would stop buying goods and services. It would cause the black market to flourish. We would become a nation of criminals as everyone would try to weasel out of VAT taxes. Remember probation?
It is better to have big business pay its fair share rather than for you and me. Or, alternatively as stated by others, move out of the US to “greener pastures.” South America any one? You people are such patriots!
Good information! Thank you. It is my firm belief that if corporations had been paying their fair share over the decades, we would not be having any issues.
Kim McCarthy –
“It is my firm belief that if corporations had been paying their fair share over the decades, we would not be having any issues.” Kim McCarthy
Based on what?
Your statement is a ridiculous and baseless liberal/progressive assumption.
Joe
Based on what Joe? Based on facts I presented to you above.
US taxpayer says:
April 22, 2010 at 9:50 pm
BIG BUSINESS PAYS LITTLE OR NO TAXES SO THE MIDDLE CLASS CAN
It can’t be any clearer even for you. Instead of saying a statement is a “ridiculous and baseless liberal/progressive assumption” prove to me why it is with cold hard facts that repudiate it.
US taxpayer –
Refute what, Kim’s ridiculous and baseless opinion?
Joe
Who made all the loop holes for the “big corporations” to avoid paying taxes. Politicians did. Your Messiah took almost a million dollars from Goldman, big business. He will not give it back. You people bang big business and vote for the idiots that help them keep their money. Talk about being tools.
US Taxpayer & Kim McCarthy –
You missed this post, so I reposted it for you.
Liberals more likely to cheat on Taxes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc5v0h3nAk8
Please say it isn’t so US & Kim.
Joe
P.S. If we could get liberal/progressives to not cheat on their taxes we could retire the National Debt?
Cdev
To the best of my knowledge Walmart used a sub-contractor who uesdillegals.
Joe
I fail to see calling Oduma a POS is racist. You liberals attack big business. Have you ever worked for a poor person? And yes you would be taxed on what you buy and NOT on your income. As I said you open minded dufus, read the books instead of the Daily Kos and you will be well informed. All the drug dealers, illegals and people who visit our GREAT COUNTRY would pay taxes on what they purchase. I watched this weekend while a crew from Costa Rica put a roof on a house and the contractor bragged about how little he paid them and they were illegal. They use our resources and pay no taxes. They use our emergency rooms for medical treatment and do not pay the bills. But, you libs do not have a problem with this. If you have more money your spend more money, and you would pay taxes on what you buy. Your Messiah promised not to tax the middle class but he is. He made many promises that he did not keep, where is your frustration with his many lies. If George Bush had done what this wanna be President has done in only a little over a year the liberal media would be pounding him 24 hours a day. 57 States, this guy again could not run a McDonalds drive through during the morning rush. He makes Jimmy Carter look super smart. Enjoy you POS, he is a one shot wonder. Remember also “it took Jimmy Carter to give us Ronald Reagan.” George Bush is not the President, POS is and he said he could fix this. All he and his democratic leaders have done is put us into endless debt.
your right.. mr. cop, but i would of went up to contractor and asked for his employees green cards and/or i would of went up to illegals and say i’m calling police and pull out my cell phone and watch them right like hell. But first of all i would ask contractor for his business card. lastly i would report him to these places. It works. he would be fined a hefty amount. Report employers.. and then ask the homeowner why they allowed illegals to work on their house. Then the homeowner would be the 1st one complaining about their kids not being able to find work. Ironic isn’t it!!
1. TO REPORT EMPLOYERS HIRING ILLEGALS AND GET A REWARD GO TO http://WWW.SENDTHETAXMAN.COM.
2. REPORT TO IRS TIPLINE 1-800-829-0433 or mail to IRS Fresno California 93888
3. DEPT OF LICENSING AND PERMITS TO CHECK ON LICENSE. 410-230-6220
4. IF YOU THINK EMPLOYER paying in cash or NOT PAYING MINIMUM WAGE OR OVERTIME CALL
1-800-4-US-WAGE
5. CALL ICE 1-866-347-2423
6. Compliance Division 410-767-1505
7. Workmen’s’ compensation fraud dept. 1-888-268-4372
8. MD. Insurance fraud division 410-468-3902 Bill Bokel 410-468-3902
9. IWIF Jerry Landsman 410-494-2450 He is a big help and will direct you
10. Send Employers info on E-Verify and note stiff penalties for hiring illegal aliens
http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD
11. Check for expired tags usually from other states and call 911. Most operating cars illegally..
12. Workplace Fraud..410-767-9885 for contractors and landscapers only.
13. Hot houses, too many people in one house is against code. . Call code enforcement office in that county..
14. Report to Federal Employment Immigration Case Workers (202) 693-0051
15. Report to EEOC (800) 669-4000 Equal Employment Opportunity Division
All of this can be done anonymous
EMPLOYERS.
The Social Security Administration offers a free employee verification service for employers wishing to verify the legal status of former or current employees. The service verifies the social security numbers (SSN) for up to 5 employees. Call toll-free 1-800-772-6270, weekdays from 7:00 a.m. To 7:00 p.m. EST. You will be asked for your company name and EIN. You must also provide the following information for each name/SSN you want to verify:
SSN
Last name
First name
Middle initial (if applicable)
Date of birth
Gender
amdadctivist, ask any police officer (I am retired) how much response you get when you come across illegals? None, they are everywhere. No politician wants them bothered. They want to give then amnesty so they can vote in the next elections for democrats. Look what the Sheriff in Arizona is going through for arresting illegals. Our US Attorney General is investigating him for doing his job. Trust me Sheriff Bane will not tackle this issue. He is too busy protecting them and hugging gang members. And most important, I am retired and I do not care about this anymore. I gave 25 years to a thankless job, and if I had to do over I would not have done it. Any person who says they do it to make a difference is a fool. I look back at what I did, the problems it caused for me and my family with people making threats and paying me visits was not worth the 50 percent I get each month.
Retired Cop. thank you for your years of service. I can image you’ve seen it all.
we report employers and hot houses with a vengeance and it works. We fight hard and insist the laws be followed. Every year I testify in annapolis and I am seeing many changes for the better. Slowly but surely. We the people and the TEA group will vote smart from here on. Have faith.
Niether do Republicans have a problem with it. THey profit from the workers too!
Cdev –
What exactly do you mean?
I lived and worked in NYC and had experience with a great many liberal/progressives business owners with two sets of books and undocumented employees working off-the-books.
Joe
Wal-Mart for example. They got busted for employing a HUGE amount of illegals during the Bush administration and instead of paying the appropriate fine…..they got off lightly! Big buisnesses employ illegals too.
Cdev
To the best of my knowledge Walmart used a sub-contractor who illegals.
Joe
GM repays loan to US…actually, not really
http://radioviceonline.com/gm-repays-loan-to-us-actually-not-really/
It was with great fanfare yesterday that General Motors announced that it was repaying some $4.7 billion of $6.7 billion in loans it received from the federal government. And, with even bigger fanfare, it was announced that this partial repayment was being made some five years earlier than expected.
Too good to be true? Well, it is.
What you weren’t told was that GM was able to repay the money by drawing down on a line of credit that it had from TARP! In other words, GM took funds still available to it through TARP and used those funds to repay the loan it received from the government. Of course, it now owes $4.7 billion on its line of credit with TARP, but, that doesn’t make for good news, so it wasn’t reported.
Here is how we know this. During an April 20 hearing on Capital Hill, Sen. Tom Carper, (D.DE.) asked some pointed questions of Neil Barofsky, the “special watch dog” on the Wall Street Bailout, aka, TARP.
It’s good news in that they’re reducing their debt,” Barofsky said of the accelerated GM payments, “but they’re doing it by taking other available TARP money.”…
“It sounds like it’s kind of like taking money out of one pocket and putting in the other,” said Carper, who got a nod of agreement from Barofsky.
“The way that payment is going to be made is by drawing down on an equity facility of other TARP money.”
Humm…wonder why we didn’t hear about that.
US Taxpayer & Kim McCarthy
You missed this post, so I reposted it for you.
Liberals more likely to cheat on Taxes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc5v0h3nAk8
Please say it isn’t so US & Kim.
Joe
P.S. If we could get liberal/progressives to not cheat on their taxes we could retire the National Debt?
Joe I think if we could get all tax cheats, regardless of ideology to stop we would still have a national debt. Perhaps we could get rid of the debt that is harmful, like that to other countries; but debt to our own citizens like bonds would not be so bad. The key is better management of funds.