From Harford County Government:
(Bel Air, MD) – – As a result of conservative budgeting and unanticipated revenues to the county, Harford County Executive David R. Craig has announced a General Fund fund balance of approximately $32 million beyond the required reserves for FY 11.
As a result, after three years of wage freezes and employees having to absorb a portion of their health care and pension contribution increases, Harford County Executive David R. Craig has announced a one-time pay bonus for all county employees in FY 12. Those eligible to receive the bonus are county employees, Harford County Public School system employees, Harford County Public Library personnel, as well as personnel of the Harford County Sheriff’s Office, the State’s Attorney’s Office, the Circuit Court and the Judiciary.
Money to pay for the one-time bonus will be used from monies in the county’s fund balance. The fund balance will also be used to help pay for one-time Capital Improvement Projects which will help the county save money by not bonding such projects over the course of several years.
Funding to support the one-time pay bonus and limited capital projects will come from a fund balance created through several years of conservative budgeting and an increase of income tax receipts the county treasury collected. The one-time $1,250 bonus for county employees will be paid in two installments; the first in December 2011 and the second in June of 2012.
Commenting on the one-time pay bonus, County Executive Craig stated, “During the past three years, County employees rose to the challenge and made personal sacrifices necessary to help keep our local government solvent and working for the community. As a result, they have not received a pay raise in more than three years, and have also had to absorb incremental increases in their share of health care premiums and pension benefits. Working with President Billy Boniface and the Harford County Council, we are pleased to be able to provide a limited one-time pay bonus to county personnel.”
The County Executive added, “Our ability to grow Harford County’s economy during these
difficult times have had a positive impact on our economic well being. Couple that with
strong, conservative budgeting and management practices, has resulted in Harford County having a fund balance which we will use to cover the limited pay bonus and some capital projects that have been pending for some time. I am very pleased with how we as a county have handled this economic crisis. We have reduced property tax rates, limited the size of government; grew and diversified our local economy, and invested in future economic growth opportunities,” Craig remarked.
The allocation of funds for the one time employee bonus requires legislative approval from the County Council. A bill to do so will be introduced at the November 1st County Council meeting.
With all due respect,Mr Craig.
Don’t you think this money should go back to the taxpayers?
The big question here is why are the teachers and the sheriff’s office receiving this bonus? They have continued to receive pay increases over the past 3 years while the other civil servants have had to endure pay cuts through furlough days and health care increases. What makes them so deserving? Teachers not only are paid well for the hours worked, they have the opportunity to have additional jobs in the summer if they care to get off their lazy duffs. They love to bring up ‘if you don’t support the teachers then you don’t care about your childs education. B.S. These teachers put out the same effort regardless of what they earn, not to mention the fact that the Board of Education is not held accountable for their budget. If they decide to spend their dollars on new vehicles for the administration instead of teachers salaries as in their proposed budget to the council they can. I say give the bonuses to those who have sacrificed the most! All of this money will ultimately be spent spurring on a sluggish economy.
Tom,
Teachers have not recieved any pay increase in harford county over the last 3 years.
I believe that to be un-true. Did you not receive a COLA? Also, the rest of the County, with the exception of the Sheriff’s office, took pay cut’s in the form of furlough days. When is the last time it ‘cost’ you to be a teacher?
HCPS employees have not received COLAs in 3 years. As for “paying to be a teacher” – we may not have had furlough days (not to mention those would be hard to schedule since you could be taking a day of learning away from students) but before the school year began, I bought posters and bulletin board materials to decorate my very first classroom, stocked up on pencils, paper, glue, erasers, and colored pencils, soap for the classroom sink, and antibacterial wipes so that I can keep the student desks clean. Now, please don’t take my list as a complaint. I’m just answering your question, and buying these things were my choice. However, having these items handy for students who are unprepared for my class keeps the lessons running smoothly and keeps them caught up. I want my students to feel safe, enjoy learning and coming to school, so again, I choose to “pay to be a teacher.”
Tom teachers have not recieved a COLA either. If you believe they did please let me know which year. As for paying to be a teacher. Teachers MUST have a Master’s or equivelency but year 10 of their career (used to be 6) They have to pay for that themselves. So yes all jobs have training, certification costs (Teachers pay for their liscencing too).
Agree – I find it unbelieveable that teachers have to pay for supplies out of their own pockets. Let’s cut back a bit on sports spending and put more $ into the classroom. In NJ, many school districts (they are individual districts, not county-wide) are starting to make sports “pay-to-play.” Meaning, if your child wants to play football, or whatever, parents pay a fee for that.
For those who can SPELL, READ ,WRITE, or even TYPE messages on this website need the THANK A TEACHER!!! Without us you would be illiterate, ignorant, and unemployed. Maryland has been NUMBER 1 in the nation for education according to Education Week for the last 2 years. Any parent should be PROUD to have any teacher in this state and in Harford County. We DESERVE our bonus and it has been LONG OVERDUE!!!
For those who can SPELL, READ ,WRITE, or even TYPE messages on this website need the THANK A TEACHER!!! For those who can SPELL, READ ,WRITE, or even TYPE messages on this website IN ENGLISH THANK A Soldier!!! (Soldiers don’t get bonuses or pay raises either but they have the decency to keep on trucking without a lot of belly aching.)
your absolutley right dave!
Actually they get a raise when they get deployed.
You are absolutely right Cdev. They get a full $65 a month “combat pay”.
Dave,
Don’t get me wrong I appreciate what they do. I agree it to is a priceless thakless profession and is truly a calling. If I am to apply what one person told me in this thread….It is the job they signed up for. Again I am not trying to suggest I am ungrateful as the grandson and brother of vetrans.
I also asked my brother about this he says your $65 figure is off he gets $225 IDP a month, a tax exemption for all pay that month, $250 FSA a month, HDP pay of $100 a month. Additionally when he was extended last time he deployed he recieved $1,000 a month after the first 12 months of his tour. He also gets a garunteed 10% interest on all his deposited pay that he does not collect until return. Again not saying he did not earn it but it was certianly more then you passed it off to be!
Dave Yensen, I usually agree with you, but not this time. If teachers didn’t(or understanding citizens)advocate for themselves, they would have minimum wage. I would hope that you believe that what they do is important for us all.
Sorry Monster. I never meant to imply that teachers are unimportant. There is not a single profession within our economy that is unimportant. Thank God that the teachers do sign up for that calling, I certainly could not do it. I do however get quite miffed when any one group decides that it is important enough to receive special treatment. I’m long enough in the tooth to know that none of of us is so special as to have earned that right.
You may deserve a bonus, but we don’t always get what we deserve. You may get the bonus this year and then have to pay more taxes next year. The government will have its pound of flesh. And for doing a great job, you deserve recognition, praise and thank yous. —- But a $1250 bonus.This particular money I don’t think was designated for bonuses and even if you do deserve it, you are only one person, hundreds would be getting the same bonus and I know just from experience, you are more of an exception than a rule..So the semi useless people get it too.That’s not very equitable is it??? How do you feel about that? That is only one of the big problems with kind of divvying up money just because it’s there. I have to believe that the County for which it was intended should be the recipient.
And lastly, we are all taxpayers so if you get some back, then all of us should get some back, that is if you are talking about equity or fairness (fairness is a very difficult quantity to calculate or define)
Tom,
Teachers,staff and administrators have not received a COLA or our pay steps in the last three years. In fact this year we took a pay cut since we now are paying more into the pension fund and medical benefits. Any time someone keeps ranting about how easy we have it I would love for you to walk in my shoes for a week. Believe me teachers who stay in the classroom do it for the kids but the other stuff around us is getting to be not worth it. As for the summers, that is when teachers finally get a chance to rethink and self evaluate how lessons and things have went, make new lessons for new preps and work curriculum. Summers are when most go to school for their masters or renewal credits. Show me another industry that states you have to earn a masters and then to stay certified earn 6 credits every five years. Most of us do pay for things our of pocket since budgets have been cut. Don’t get me wrong their is wasteful spending and teachers see it everyday but it isn’t at the clasroom level. When you look at the bonus we are to receive, yes it is nice but I would like the $6000 that I’ve missed in my steps b/c that would go towards my retirement fund. This one time bonus doesn’t help me towards that. Also a first year teacher will get this bonus too, sorry they don’t deserve it, they haven’t had pay freeze yet. Unions always negotiate to help those who are first starting out, they need to help those of us who stay with the system and do this for the kids. Sadly more of the experienced teachers who really want what is best for the students are leaving and are being replaced by those who listen to people who aren’t in the classrooms on how to facility learning. Education needs an overhaul big time, but the ones in the trenches are ignored.
Let’s not forget, we think nothing of paying hundreds of dollars for tickets to see our favorite professional sports team. And, we also have no problem paying those athletes millions per year, but when someone suggests a paltry $1,200 bonus to our public servants, people complain and whine. If that is an indicator of our priorites as a society, then we really are in sad shape.
Sheriff’s Office personnel have NOT received any COLA, steps or pay increases for the past 3 years. True, they did not have furlough days.
Um, yeah, the Sheriff’s Office did not receive cola’s or any other type of pay increase in the past 3 years.
With all due respect, William shouldn’t our our government and schools honor their contracts?
With all due respect, William, NO. I can only speak about the case of teachers, but for three years we have been denied step increases and raises that have been negotiated by the union and agreed to by the Board of Education due to lack of funds in the Harford County budget. Now that there magically is money in the budget, we should get what whe have negotiated for and deserved.
Since most of the teachers are Harford County taxpayers it is going back to taxpayers.
William,
That money is not due to the tax payers… It is money that was owed to the government but not spent. It is not your right nor any others to say how it should be spent, however teachers and other county workers have suffered long enough and should be compensated for the broken promises and legal contracts.
Those who support not giving the bonuses to the teachers and other county workers must also not support the youth in our school system. We are losing teachers by the dozens to other counties and states that take care of good hard working teachers. Never mind the teachers who now basically come in at 745 and leave with the students no longer willing to put in extra hours that go uncompensated or appreciated.
Taken for granted too long
I support teachers and county workers every payday. It is my right as a citizen to say how our money should be spent or returned. I had to find a new job and take a significant pay cut. We are all suffering.
I am not saying teachers and county workers are undeserving. They did more with less and that is commendable. I just think there should be more debate on the direction of these funds.
William to be fair the county is about to be slapped in binding arbitration. This is problem going to help them look better. Additionally they will tax the bonuses I am sure so money will be coming back!
I work for HCPS and the taxes they take out of me every paycheck pay for my own salary. So I think we deserve the bonus.
William, if you a truely concerned about your tax money then you are barking up the wrong tree. Harford County employees are getting this because of sacrifice and going years without. You should really be directing your efforts towards the Federal Government and their employees. This group works with a budget that is billions of dollars in the red yet affords their employees raises every year, year after year. A huge portion of this county is employeed by these very people on the Aberdeen Proving Ground. Shame on them if they complain.
Federal raises are frozen for 2011 and 2012. There’s talk of extending that through 2015. See linked article:
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=46596
You do have a right to your opinion, regardless of how narrow minded or myopic it might be.
Taken for Granted – Are we losing teachers to other counties? Not being a wise guy, just wondering. I’m not aware of any teacher shortage within the county.
Wages and salaries rise and fall in the private sector in sync with the health of the economy, and when things get rough, employees are often asked to do more for less. Subjecting teachers and other government employees to the same reality doesn’t mean they aren’t appreciated. That’s how we try to reposition ourselves and society for prosperity again down the road.
Someone tell this garbage to the executives of the largest corporations that are laying people off and shipping jobs overseas and paying very little in corporate taxes….
Do you think Mayo Schattuck’s salary has ‘fluctuated with the economy’s health’?
B.S., get out of your ideological hole and realize what a great deal the county’s taxpayers have gotten….rate decrease after rate decrease…and the employees got less pay for 2 years, equal pay this year, and rising pension and healthcare costs.
Every person I am friends with who works for a health care company, or Constellation, or any contractor like General Dynamics…..are seeing bonus after bonus and salary increases EVERY YEAR since 2008.
So no, the employees are not asking to be treated differently than private sector.
Have a nice day.
Resident – I’m talking about the 99% in the private sector, not the execs. Exceptions don’t define the rule.
My property taxes have increased about 40% over the past six years. I wouldn’t call that a decrease.
So contractors have done well over the past few years you say? Fair enough. How about the rest of the private sector that doesn’t do contract work?
Mike that is to be expected since 5 years ago people wanted the constant yield. When housing values and assessments went down the constant yield dictated the tax would go up to cover the difference just like when the values go up the tax will go down.
Yes. My wife is on step 9 with a master’s plus 45 even though this is year 12. If she went to Baltimore COunty, Baltimore City or Cecil next year she would make between 5-7 K more instantly. If she went to Moco or PG she would make 10-12 K more. If she went to PA she would make a boat load more. As a family the job relocation being considered and she has co-workers, particularly in MAth, Science and Special Ed who are all leaving and they are in the 10-15 year range. She also knows alot of 3-4 year good teachers who are walking too if there is no step increase.
Good bye Cdev.
Please don’t write or call..I want to remember you just the way you are.
NO I can still live here while my wife works somewher else!
I believe the teachers should get the 1250.00; but please remember the average HCPS teacher makes almost 50,000 per year. That is for 10 months too
for full disclosure:
http://www.teachersalaryinfo.com/maryland/teacher-salary-in-harford-county-public-schools/
I don’t think that data is current.
I really hate to be a nit picker but the word data is referring to a plural. If you weren’t a school teacher I wouldn’t bother, but your statement of “I don’t think that data is current.” should have been I don’t think THOSE data are correct.
Actually Arturo both are correct
“In English, the word datum is still used in the general sense of “an item given”. In cartography, geography, nuclear magnetic resonance and technical drawing it is often used to refer to a single specific reference datum from which distances to all other data are measured. Any measurement or result is a datum, but data point is more usual,[1] albeit tautological. Both datums (see usage in datum article) and the originally Latin plural data are used as the plural of datum in English, but data is commonly treated as a mass noun and used with a verb in the singular form, especially in day-to-day usage. For example, This is all the data from the experiment. This usage is inconsistent with the rules of Latin grammar and traditional English (These are all the data from the experiment). Even when a very small quantity of data is referenced (One number, for example) the phrase piece of data is often used, as opposed to datum. The debate over appropriate usage is ongoing.
The IEEE Computer Society, allows usage of data as either a mass noun or plural based on author preference.[2] Other professional organizations and style guides[3] require that authors treat data as a plural noun. For example, the Air Force Flight Test Center specifically states that the word data is always plural, never singular.[4]
Data is accepted as a singular mass noun in everyday educated usage.[5][6] Some major newspapers such as The New York Times use it either in the singular or plural. In the New York Times the phrases “the survey data are still being analyzed” and “the first year for which data is available” have appeared within one day.[7] [8] In scientific writing data is often treated as a plural, as in These data do not support the conclusions, but it is also used as a singular mass entity like information. British usage now widely accepts treating data as singular in standard English,[9] including everyday newspaper usage[10] at least in non-scientific use.[11] UK scientific publishing still prefers treating it as a plural.[12] Some UK university style guides recommend using data for both singular and plural use[13] and some recommend treating it only as a singular in connection with computers.[14]”
From Wikipedia
let’s review, teachers must have a college degree. They also must take at least 6 college credits every five years and pay the majority of the cost themselves to keep certification. Most have a Master’s degree or two. How many people in the business world start at a much higher pay? I know many teachers who work at least two jobs to pay their bills and take care of their families. My son who has an AA, started his job at a company at 75k a year, was given a new car, a bonus for additional hours worked, a new computer and his company is paying his full tuition to complete his bachelors. That is the corporate world. Let’s at least make an attempt to pay teachers what they are worth or at least enough to be able support their families. There are teacher shortages in science and math because we can’t compete with the public sector. This is a mini drop in a large empty well, but at least it’s a start.
The “six credits in five years” is even misleading, because within the first ten years teachers must earn a Master’s Degree or its equivalent in credit hours, which is significantly more than 12 credits. HCPS caps the reimbursement on a per-credit-hour and a per-year basis, and most every program in the state requires teachers to pay up front and then wait for reimbursement from the school system.
But…..teachers just don’t work 8 hour days either. So add all the time put in at home in the evenings and on weekends making sure your children get the best possible education that could equal more than 12 months of work.
Yes they make well below the median county income of 75K
Yes, but lets not forget, this was your chosen profession. Noone begged you to be a teacher and the plith of teachers pay has long been a topic of debate so don’t act like you got in it to get rich. The fact is there are more college graduates looking for teaching jobs than there are jobs. If you are unhappy then take your degree and go work in the private sector. But don’t sit here and tell single parents who are making $10,000 a year and can’t get government help because they are employeed that you can’t support your family on a teachers salary!
True, My wife choose to teach and at one time I choose public school teaching too. We understood certian realities of the job and are greatful for them. One of those realities was small but predictable raises despite the economy. In booms like 2003-2006 we recieved smaller raises then our private industry friends but we knew we would continue to get steps when the economy went bust, which it did and guess what she didn’t. Fine we understood. It was a bad economic down turn. Twice however since then the people’s representatives at the bargining table, who hold all the cards (to call it bargining is really a shame) approved step increases and twice those promises have been broken by this county exec. He did not even put them forward in his budget proposal thus not even allowing the county council to say yes or no. That is bad faith!
Tom I do work in the private educational sector. I get to work with the kids who the public school system can not take on. Fact is certified math, science and special ed teachers are worth their weight in gold. There are tons of special ed openings. If you know someone who wants one and is not certified they can get a provisional certificate. The need to go to school to on their own dime and get a special ed endorsement in 3 years!
We had a contract. Shouldn’t contracts be honored?
Tom, you make $10,000 a year. Sounds like you ought to become a teacher. What is stopping you?
Using the county median of $75K is specious. The median salary is heavily impacted by the very highly paid civil service employees from APG. Hopefully you aren’t suggesting that a school teacher should be making the same as a PHD physicist.
Hey Dave Yensan,
“Using the county median of $75K is specious. The median salary is heavily impacted by the very highly paid civil service employees from APG. Hopefully you aren’t suggesting that a school teacher should be making the same as a PHD physicist.” – I think that I agree with part of this and disagree with part as well. Though the 75K is the median, it is skewed by the salaries of the ‘PHD Physicists’, the teachers are highly skilled and educated, requiring a minimum of a Bachelor’s degre, and after a certain amount of time, a Master’s Degree. Now, should these highly skilled, educated, and qualified individuals be paid the same as a lesser educated professional in the county, who can get paid the same or more than the teachers? There is no direct correlation between the education and salary. There are numerous reasons why teachers enter the profession. One that is often cited is the supposed stable work environment with alleged annual raises and generally good health benfits.
Anyways, have a nice day.
How do the PHD physicist skew the median. If I used the MEAN then it would be skewed but the median is what the middle person makes. I am suggesting that a teacher with 15 years experience a masters and 45 more credits (similar in education to the PHD. Should make a little more then they do. Given the 10 month nature of the job I understand the difference to an extent.
A PhD school teacher should.
Especially a PHD teacher who teaches physics. We have a few of them…..funny they make less!
Typical spending by the County Executive…the Council really has got keep a handle on his spending during these last couple of lame duck years.
“several years of conservative budgeting”
Yep, really have to watch that spending.
In fairness to everyone, the decision to pay this bonus needs to be looked at in the context of the entire budget – not just this year but over the course of the long run. County employees have indeed sacrificed over the course of the past three years, and their sacrifice ought not be overlooked.
Should Harford County be in a position to manage its property and income tax revenue increases in the coming years to a level consistent with inflation, then I think the idea of a bonus is warranted. If not, then it isn’t. If it is too soon to tell, then the amount of the bonus should be set within an acceptable risk level.
Of course, no mention is made of the best of both worlds scenario – in which the county would thoroughly review its staffing needs as businesses do, prioritize and lay off employees in positions that can no longer be justified, and give not just bonuses but raises to those employees in positions that can be justified. Yes, some individuals and families will be hurt in this scenario, but there is no scenario in which nobody gets hurt. That’s why we have unemployment insurance.
I appreciate that. I think that one must also consider that this may be an election gimic!
It sure smells like one, though county elections don’t come around again until 2014…
Who says the Craig will be running in a county election?
Good point. Though state elections aren’t until 2014 either 😉
Congress?
I believe that I heard he was going to form an exploratory committee to run for governor.
perhaps they already told him he will not win as an ex-teacher who teachers highly dislike!
I wonder if Craig still lives in HdG? Craig v. Dutch for Congress… unless they gerrymandered his house into District 1.
It is fairness and right to give our county employees this bonus. For those of you who do care that they haven’t had a raise, don’t call the Sheriff if someone breaks into your house, send your kids to private school, call Black and Decker when a snow storm occurs. I am a conservative, but let’s be realistic. I know many teachers who work a summer job. This big bonus is a small offer for fairness. As far as the statement about David Craig, he is not eligible for reelection. He may run for another office, but not county executive.
Mr Perrone: very well spoken.
Thank you.
As a Harford County teacher, I am delighted by this possibility.
Please remember as well that the majority of teachers consistently spend out-of-pocket for their classroom, purchasing teaching materials not covered under school budgets, as well as incentives for our students. And yes, we are the ones providing pencils, erasers and such for children who would otherwise not be able to fully participate in our lessons.
And that’s still saying nothing about uncompensated hours. I’m in my classroom 1 hour and 15 minutes before the school day starts, every day. Monday through Thursday (and often on Sunday) I grade or plan at home in the evenings. This is not unusual behavior at my school.
Some of us in the “business” world work at home and overtime too. But we do not get July and August off…
Teachers don’t get a check in July and August….you do!
Teachers are paid for a set number of days which they work. So, being off in the summer is the same as saying unemployed. In some occupations I would apply for unemployment, but teachers won’t do that. Stop this rhetoric about them having off all summer and working from 8-3. If it is such a gravy boat, why not jump on it yourself.
actually they can not apply for unemployment!
If you know anything about the teaching profession, you also know that teachers are NOT paid for July and August.
and you get compisated for your overtime dont you??????????????????
Actually no, many of us are paid a salary, whcih means that we are given a certain amount of money per pay period to do our jobs. This requires us to work a minimum amount of time (usually 40 hours/week), and any additional time that is required to get our tasks done (with no additional pay). If we think that we are working too many additional hours for the salary received, we are free to look for another job.
PS – The question does not get any better by adding more question marks.
Overtime??? What’s that?? We are expected to work from home and stay late with NO compensation. Who else works for free in Harford County? Do you work for free Brian? Let me answer that for you NO
I do, and so do many others. Actually, it’s not “working for free” because it is expected in the business world, which you do not seem to be acquainted with.
Im a school custodian who makes very little money, and i do work 7 days a week to make ends meet, after taxes and medical benefits are taken out im left with close to a 700 pay check my mortgage exceeds that, and no im not just a tiolet bowl cleaner, im a licensed stationary engineer, licensed gas fitter, hvac, and plumbing, i put in hard work day in and day out to keep your kids safe, a $1250 bonus would be nice but what is the real cost of that bonus will it set me back another 4 years with out a pay raise, if so i dont want it
Qwilliam you are not entitled to that money… Just because it is a surplus doesn’t mean you were over charged, Instead it means that a government actually didn’t waste all of their income. And yes teachers in harford run at the opportunity to go to baltimore county or PA as those places have continued to HONOR the contracts they gave unlike Our county…
In the past few years several of my students have asked for my advise about pursuing a teaching degree. While I like teaching I can no longer recommend it as a career choice to high school and college students. If I had it to do all over again I would also choose something different. Education has changed so much from the time I was in school it is almost impossible to recognize as a profession.
This is one of the few times I have to agree with something county government has initiated. The teachers deserve a bonus and the county employees do a great job in Harford County, with the exception of the Harford County Sheriff’s Department of course. This whole thing seems so non-republican like, are you sure Mr. Craig didn’t make you promise to give up your first born for the money………..
i dont know why you think the members of the hcso dont deserve the money that the other county employees may receive but as a member of this fine public saftey organization that protects your rights and property everyday all i can say is we come to your aid 24-7 365 days a year and put ourseleves in peril doing it. So i dont think that this funding if it is approved should be held back from any of the county employees that do there jobs.
Well, as an Edgewood resident, I hardly have any use for the Sheriff’s Department, especially since they are packing their bags and running for the outskirts of town. The relocation of the precinct out of town and the lack of any increased police presence is why I am not impressed with our Sheriff’s Department. Sorry if you don’t like it, but I wouldn’t give them a bonus, I would start decreasing their pay.
Your right!! they should do away with that department, for all the money that goes into it, and what it actually does, isn’t worth our hard earned tax money!!!
The Sheriff’s Office does a great job. Where are you nay sayers coming up with your facts?
Hey Censored, the first County Executive to fund the entire education budget was a Republican(Jim Harkings). The worst situation public education suffered was during County Executive Habern Freeman, a Democrat. Don’t let your politics get in the way of facts.
Jim Harkins
I fail to see the relevance to what we are talking about. Freeman was in office in the 80’s and Harkins was in office in 2002. You are trying to associate politicians who were in office over 20 years apart for whatever reason. I fail to see why any of your arguments have anything to do with the incompetence of the Harford County Sheriff’s Department The bottom line is the HCSO has failed the citizens of Edgewood and the proof is in their retreat to the outskirts of town.
Censored 2, I was explaining how this whole issue can get muddied if we fail to regard facts. In this case, it was explaining that not funding education is a Republican trait, which is categorically wrong.
As for your position on the Sheriff’s Office, you use that they have moved out of Edgewood. Are you for real? The Sheriff’s Office serves the entire county, and, apparently unknown to you, other communities. I know you feel entitled being in Edgewood, but get over yourself. Have they ever not responded to calls for help in Edgewood? Look up what a fact is and see if you are being fair to the HCSO. Also, if you care to respond to this, use something other than they moved out of town.
Let us all be non-partisan and give credit where it is due. Well done to those who allowed it to occur, thank you to the deserving county employees who will benefit, and may we all continue to benefit from the services for which we have paid.
I would like to add that I had the unfortunate need for a law enforcement officer this past weekend. The officer presented to my home quickly, and was competent, polite and informative. Perhaps those that criticize law enforcement here should experience it elsewhere. They may not be so quick to criticize.
As a HCPS employee I would hope that the council does approve this bill, and give us little people some kind of relief to be able to buy simple things like groceries and other household items. But the end result truly needs to be a raise as well and health benefits lower cost to our pockets.
A reward for a going above and beyond your job duties and obligations to the county is more like it. The crying nonsense that appears when a govt employee compensation comes to play is part of the nonsense I left county employment years ago. The county has reduced property tax rates the last couple of years, money has been spent on other “priorities” and county workers have gone without a raise in 3 years. I think this bonus is the least the county can do if there are the funds to do so, if cost savings haven accomplised within the current budget year and if county employees deserve a raise, then it should be given. I think everyone that works for a liviing should be compensated accordingly to the market and revenues or profits available. Hopefully, the CE will remain a good stewart of the county’s funds and continue to implement cost saving measures to reduce labor costs or do the same with less. Isn’t that what the free market preaches anyway? County employees have been laid off, others took the incentive retirement offer and less people work for the county now than did 8 yrs ago. You can contact HR for the total number of positions saved. In addition, the county has changed its retirement, pension and health care costs to reduce the total outlay for labor costs. I’d say that the county has for the most part reduced taxes, cut expenses and did not raise taxes last year to the constant yield which or TEA party cried about for years to “follow the constant yield”.
All Employess deserve the raise. The teachers teach our kids, the other county employees make the county run great wether its planning and zoning, DPW, budget and finace. etc! The men and women of the Harford County Sheriff’s office are the best. 24-7 & 365 they are there. Remember when you are eating your Thanksgiving dinner or watching your children or grandchildren open Christmas presents, the police department is working to make sure you can do this safely and many of them are missing there own childrens christmas morning or not making it to Thanksgiving dinner with their family.
This proposed bonus will certainly be welcome in my household. When I signed a contract 12 years ago for hcps, it never occurred to me that the step increases would be frozen. I always knew there would be years with no pay RAISE. Certified teachers receive pay increases each year up to fifteen years, and then every five years (I figured this was for becoming better qualified with experience and continual professional development). For example, in my early years of teaching I would stay at my school an extra two hours almost daily to prepare for the next day. I would also take papers home to grade. As I got better at teaching I didn’t have to put in as many hours at school planning (but I was still grading those papers at home). I pride myself in giving students real feedback on what they produce instead of arbitrary checks for completion. Unfortunately one planning period a day is not sufficient time to read and comment thoughtfully and fairly on their work. Furthermore, since I TEACH all period, there is no time to grade summative assessments.
When I went back to school for my Master’s degree to keep my certification (an education for which hcps only paid the credits, not the enormous fees my University charged), my salary raised based on my new credentials. Much of the public thinks teachers get “summers off.” In reality, we are TEN MONTH employees and don’t get paid for those summer months. Although I put money in summer savings I often dip into it during the year to pay for things like car trouble or daycare. I have worked each summer writing curriculum or teaching summer school to supplement my salary. Did I mention my husband is a teacher, too? We were also “fortunate” enough to purchase our first home in 2006. We have a fixed loan, didn’t purchase a home even close to what our lender said we could afford, and are still drowning from an upside-down mortgage and having two children in daycare. We pay our bills on time every month, and our austerity is impeccable. Seriously, I buzz cut my husband’s hair, I get store credit and shop at the consignment place for my kids shoes, and I only drink tap water (…though sometimes I spoil myself with a coffee from Wawa)…
My hope is that in December my husband and I can treat ourselves to a date night. Maybe we’ll even splurge on babysitter instead of the in-laws and take time for a movie after.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that I looked at what I WOULD be making if I were on my 12 year step instead of a 10 year step. It’s a $3,471 difference. May not be much to some, but it’s a new front door to me. I mean that literally–our 75 year old door knob keeps falling off. Thank God for the bolted lock.
There are other ways to spend that money then to give it to County Employees that sit around and do nothing all day!! Come On!! Why don’t you spend that money on other projects that have been on hold because of budget reasons!! Craig Your An Idiot!!!
“Your An Idiot”
Priceless.
Missed that unit on contractions, didn’t we? Here’s a quick review:
Your=belonging to you.
You’re= you are
You probably missed the unit on possessive /s/ as well, so I’ll throw that in for free:
John’s car. = The car that belongs to John.
Johns’ car. = The car that belongs to the Johns family
John’s going to get his car. = John IS going.
Sheesh
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Sad and embarrassing, isn’t it?
If you think we do nothing all day, please refrain from driving on any county road; we wont be able to maintain it for you.
not a county employee,
you are the idiot! As a HCPS employee I definitely do not sit around all day doing nothing. You are so inconsiderate of the hard work that does go on.
ok so you may be the exception, but i have to admit there are a lot of people, that you know, that don’t do their job good and quick. As a person that doesn’t work for the county, i have to work even harder to have a job, i feel like i have to prove myself day in and day out. I do think the teacher should get something, because they are the backbone of the world, so lets give the money to the school system!! i know you can agree with me on that, right?
Not a County Employee: I am sure you work very hard everyday to maintain your job. Many people work very hard everyday, including county employees. I think you are unfairly labeling all county employees as lazy and undeserving.
You need to remember, just as in any other line of work there will always be the 1% of the employees that are lazy, undeserving, and generally give a bad appearance of their profession to everyone. But should we really not compensate the other hard working 99% because of the 1%?
Also, I am shocked that some people believe teachers and deputies are undeserving of this bonus. These are some of the hardest working and under appreciated people in the country right now and we can’t even reward them a little for their hard work? That’s downright low.
How do you know 99% are hardworking and deserve a bonus? Maybe only 59.5% deserve it or 26% do?
@What A Shame
No, the 1% that you speak of should not be compensated, but it would appear that they will be!
I agree. Those 1% probably shouldn’t be compensated. But there is no good and fair way to track performance in police work, teaching, etc. It’s not like selling cars or insurance.
Also, Paul, I wasn’t saying that exactly 99% are deserving. It was simply to make the point that a majority of the county employees probably deserve a little bonus like this. While many people have the impression that government employees are all lazy and undeserving, I believe that only represents a small portion, as in any other field.
Hilarious, are you referring to the article or the Protests on Wall Street! Where did you brain surgeons get 99% and 1% ideas from?
Some great responses here. I’ve got to say that I’m a fiscal conservative. The fact that there was a surplus of funds makes me glad, and hopeful that we’re on the right track as a county. The county employees deserve to get that bonus.
As for the bonus offering being a “political stunt”….So, I guess the politician is in a no-win situation?….If they do something positive they’re seen as posturing, if they don’t do anything they’re seen as incompetent. Sucks to be them I guess.
All of the county employees deserve accolades in this situation in my opinion. Thanks for keeping things running smoothly for the residents.
They are in a no win situation because they have not been truthful for three years. They bargined in bad faith. They promised a raise twice to teachers and then came back and said we don’t have the money. THe fact is they lied about it. I would have prefered them say outright we do not have the money but instead they promised something and delivered nothing. I have very little faith this will materialize for my wife. As a family we can not take the county at it’s word anymore they will deliver on their promises to their employees. So this is why I think it is a political byoff by Craig to start to get back in good with teachers for a possible congressional run! Or for a future run at something else.
You may want to take your complaint up with the union as they were well aware of the budget issues during negotiations. Everyone knew when that agreement was signed the money was not there to fund it. For the union to report this ‘victory’ to their members as if it would happen was a farce. They are the ones that agreed to the caveat ‘if there are funds available’.
‘Good faith’ negotiations (or lack thereof) could be argued on both sides.
Ironically not. You see the cost of the agreement was 16 million dollars. Funny the county has 8 Million extra?????? Half the cost of the agreement they reniged on? Coincidence? I think not!
A good faith negotioation means that the county council would at least discuss it. As it was they did not!
The union was aware. They knew the climate. This agreement was dead before the ink was dry.
The union is pwerless at any barging table for teachers. The BOE can ultimatley do what they want!
WOW, really people!
The county needs so many other things, road improvements, schools funds, building repairs, and so much more. Put the extra money towards that kind of stuff! That is the smart thing to do. I know everyone loves money but just like that government stimulus package a few years ago, it didn’t do anything but put the u.s. in more of a hole. Think about this stuff…….
Read the press release again. It says there was money set aside for county projects, idiot.
The biggest problem with this economy, so the talking heads say, is people not spending. Here is an opportunity for the local government to put some cash back out on the street that will probably be spent on Christmas or by employees whom have had to ‘rob Peter to pay Paul’ because of extra household burdens due to family members who have lost or cna’t find work. This has to have some trickle down effect. Who know’s, maybe you are that waitress or hair stylist that receives a larger than customary tip from someone who has a little extra from an unexpected bonus. It truely does help all in the long run.
So again, I am fine with the 6500 employees getting the bonus. But that only totals a little over 8 million bucks. Some advice: Hey David Craig, Just because you have extra money, you don’t have to spend it!!! That’s what got us in to this situation to begin with.
WOW!! as a county school employee, i don’t know where to spend all this new found wealth that i’m going to be given.The only thing i can ask is, where have the raises been for the last 4 years, i got nothing, and told to be happy that i had a job, i don’t know about anyone out there in the work force, but i work to get ahead not behind!
So yeah.. thanks for throw’n us a crumb.. i guess its better then the nothings we’ve beeen getting for the last 4 years.
I’ll be glad to take that extra cash off your hands. Douche.
Are you out of your freaking mind? What about about the COLA’s you have received over the last 4 years? County employees haven’t received one. What about the furlough days you didn’t get? County employees got 5. You even complained when you had to join the same health plan the rest of the County gets. Now here they are having to share what they have sacrificed for with you…..HOW DARE YOU!
Hey Tom,
“Are you out of your freaking mind? What about about the COLA’s you have received over the last 4 years?” – When did the HCPS teachers get a COLA raise in the last four years?
“County employees haven’t received one.” – Neither did the school teachers, though there was a contract to say the teachers were supposed to get raises.
“What about the furlough days you didn’t get? County employees got 5.” – And during these furlough days, who would teach the students, or would they get a furlough day as well? And, if the students did get furlough days, wouldn’t they have to make the days up at the end of the year, so, in essence, the teachers would then have to work the extra five days, so, no furlough days.
“You even complained when you had to join the same health plan the rest of the County gets.” – The complaint was about a non-negotiated plan. The county acted in bad-faith. The teachers union negotiated a contract and the health plan was part of the negotiations.
“Now here they are having to share what they have sacrificed for with you….” – Teachers negotiated a certain contract and have abided by it. They have sacrificed as well.
“HOW DARE YOU!” – How dare you.
I was once told, it is better to keep quiet and let people think you are a fool instead of opening your mouth and remove all doubt. Anyone ever tell you that, Tom?
Anyways, have a nice day.
So answer these questions for me. Your budget is handled by the Board of Education which is not accountable to the County for its spending. Did they ask you to take a 2% reduction in pay (the equivalent of 5 furlough days)? Why aren’t they funding your bonus from their surplus?
2% more to our pensions.
Hey Tom,
“So answer these questions for me.” – Sure. Happy to answer the questions if I can.
“Your budget is handled by the Board of Education which is not accountable to the County for its spending.” – Im not a teacher. I work in the private sector. However, my wife is a teacher. Also, please define accountable for me as, last I checked, the Board of Ed for the County has funding based on taxes which are assessed by the county, state and fed, so, no matter how you look at it, the Board of Ed is accountable to the County, at least in some ways.
“Did they ask you to take a 2% reduction in pay (the equivalent of 5 furlough days)?” – Nope, and how could they? The state employees that got furlough days got days off. If the teachers got the 2% reduction in pay they would still be required to work the same amount of days. Now granted, I wouldn’t want less pay, however, were I to get less pay, I would at least expect more days off, which is what a furlough day is. That really isn’t possible with the teachers as the state requires students to be in school a minimum number of days. Also, as it has already been pointed out, the teachers pensions were changed where they have to put 2% more in. Also, I don’t know how you feel about contracts, but I expect mine to be honored. Maybe that’s just me thinking silly thoughts like honoring your commitments and doing what you sign up to do, but hey, that’s just me.
“Why aren’t they funding your bonus from their surplus?” – Im not sure what you mean here. Teachers don’t get bonuses. If you are referring to the $1250.00, that is coming from the surplus.
Anyways, have a nice day.
BOE can not have a surplus. Unspent monies must be returned to the county. IN fact the BOE has voluntarily given money back for the last few years!
Tom wasn’t thinking was he?
For the complainers of this bonus:
First, do not vilify the county employees. I’m sure the majority deserve a bonus. Simply resolving to tunnel vision in forming an opinion (only looking at your predicament) is ignorant and uninformed. Look at the “big picture.” The management of a government is somewhat similar to runnning any private organization (core practices obviously, excluding the bureacracy). This includes Human Capital (i.e. trying to recruit and retain valuable employees). The county employees are to be thanked for the surplus. They took many cuts and still do their job at an acceptable or above level. All the while, listening to the have’s and have nots of those without a government job. When the economy was churning along and private industries were “partying” with their incomes, government jobs were not exactly first-choice for many. Now that the economy has tailspinned we want to resort to blaming the County employees for the ills of our society? Give them kudos, let them receive a deserved reward, and move about trying to improve your own situation instead of vilifying others. Life’s too short and things need to be done to make where we live better…….
Respectfully,
Someone who is glad the County Employees received a “compensated” THANK YOU from the citizens of Harford County.
Totally agree…im a county employee soo i may be a little biased, but many county workers have gone several years without raises or promotions as it is and without really complaining about it. but some of the complaints i see on here seem “childish”! soo its OK when private sector/self made workers are making good money and able to pay the bills…but once their luck changes, then those same people think govt. workers should suffer also?? come on?? really??
county emp’s see whats going on in the world with the economy and understand to a certain point that there “probably” won’t be a raise from year to year for a while. i’ve known hundreds of people/friends from hs and college that went onto private co.’s or started buisnesses that bragged about bonuses and raises all the time before the economy went down hill…some of them still getting bonuses here and there several times a year(along with high salary).
i have never seen a bonus before. i have always worked where after a couple years you recieve another step in salary. and being that i dont expect any future step raises in the coming years, this “bonus” is gladly appreciated.
if you actually read the entire press release it says the $1250 in bonus money is going to be a total of 12 million dollars with the other 20million going to county projects, such as road repairs,chool repairs etc…
As my wife just informed me. The teachers may not get this money. Apperantly the county exec does not have the authority to give teachers a bonus without the BOE independently negotiating it. All he can do is give it to the BOE and suggest they pass it on. Nothing requires that as we all learned last time!
If this were a raise based on 2080/work hours per year, it would amount to about a $.60/hour increase, which over 3 years would really be about $.20/hour. But, in fact, this is a bonus which means that no hourly rates are changing. This is the most efficient way to give anyone any type of pay incentive because it doesn’t get built into the budget for future pay. That’s why it’s called a bonus – it benefits both sides. No raise in 3 years? Seems like this is the least we can do for our county employees.
As a third year teacher, and the spouse of a teacher, I am grateful to have a job I love. I have been blessed to be working with a group of professionals, and there are very few in the building who are the type to come and go when the kids do. The people I work with come in early, stay late, are on their feet all day interacting with the children (whom we care very much about), and take work home.
I do feel slighted when I think about the very nice recruiter who came to my university’s job fair showing me the numbers. It feels like I was lied to, as I believe the county was aware there would be no COLA when I was hired. It is also frustrating that more is deducted from my health insurance today and out of pocket expenses have increased. As a result, I take home less pay now than I did when I started.
I know that the economy is poor right now. My mantra seems to be, “This too shall pass,” though in the back of my mind there is doubt for this young country. Sure it is cliché, but I will continue to educate your children, because I care about them and the future of the USA.
I know people are frustrated, but I hope that they will stop to think about what they are about to write before they post. I do not wish for it to appear as if all teachers are ignorant. I like to keep in mind that usually you hear more from the crazies and extremists more often than those who represent the whole. As a teacher, I will also be keeping that in mind when I review comments from other groups.
Thank you to those who seek to understand. We’re all in this together, right? Let’s be responsible, well-informed citizens.
True, true, true……
Look, weather your a teacher, a police officer, a secretary, a custodian, a plumber, what ever you do for the citizens of Harford County each job requires some level of education, some of the trades have just about or if not more education then a masters degree, take a master electrician for example thats about 6 years of school with thousands of hours of hands on work, and various tests, so would it be fare to say that they dont deserve a pay raise because they dont hold a graduate degree, or is it fair to say that they are not as good as a teacher? just think if this electrician wired a school wrong or a county building wrong what the outcome would be, people take for granted some of the jobs that everybody needs and uses, for example the trashman, every body needs a trash man, but do they respect the trash man? Do they thank the trash man? Then you go to the cafertia staff who makes about 13,000 a year who after taxes and benefits cannot even afford an apartment are we better then they are? Do we use there services? Come on people we all have extremly important jobs and im getting tired of other people saying well i have this degree and this certificate so that makes me better then they are, The bottom line is that without the trashman and without the small guy you big shots would be nothing, and just remember you put your pants on the same way as every one else.
I often don’t weigh in on these discussions. I would like to thank many of the folks who do. I have noticed looking at the “thumbs up” and “thumbs down” indicators on the comments here, that there are a majority of thumbs up for posts in support of county employees. I know that recently there had been a lot negative thought nationwide about public employees, and it is nice to see support of us here.
Thank you. It feels nice to feel appreciated.
The “surplus” funds belong the taxpayer. If the county has save money from operations then the taxpayer should be refunded because they overpaid for services rendered. I do agree that contracts should either be honored or renegotiated according to market conditions or demand for services, but how BOE can negotiate a contract with a union without knowing how much $$$ they’ll have to work with from the county?Am I missing something here? I you read the article the fact is that the county saved enough from operations to allow a bonus for employees but how does this translate into teachers getting a bonus? They are not county employees as they are an independent agency that the county doesn’t control. I guess BOE doesn’t have to be efficient or have an incentive to save because as long as HCG has a surplus, they will reap the benefits of others layoffs, furloughs and lack of raises.
Hey Roman,
“The “surplus” funds belong the taxpayer.” – Nope, it is the government’s once they have it.
“If the county has save money from operations then the taxpayer should be refunded because they overpaid for services rendered.” – I agree with this, provided the government has handled all its other obligations.
“I do agree that contracts should either be honored or renegotiated according to market conditions or demand for services,” – Me too.
“but how BOE can negotiate a contract with a union without knowing how much $$$ they’ll have to work with from the county?Am I missing something here?” – I completely agree with you here, though I think they are basing it on expected money.
“I you read the article the fact is that the county saved enough from operations to allow a bonus for employees but how does this translate into teachers getting a bonus? They are not county employees as they are an independent agency that the county doesn’t control.” – Funding comes from the county and the county has control.
“I guess BOE doesn’t have to be efficient or have an incentive to save because as long as HCG has a surplus, they will reap the benefits of others layoffs, furloughs and lack of raises.” You do realize that there have been cuts to the schools as well, right? Schools have less staff now as compared to three years ago. Just because they don’t get furlough days doesn’t mean they haven’t had to deal with the financial situation we are in. Also, while the country was prospering, you do realize that teachers were still poorly paid, right?
Anyways, have a nice day.
Anyways, have a nice day.
There is no such thing as government money, it is always the people’s money.
@Paul- Actually the county can’t mandate that the BOE pay the money to the staff. The county doesn’t have control. My point being that the HCG became more efficient by laying off staff (30+) employees 2 yrs ago, furloughs for 2 years and retirement incentive last year to reduce labor costs. In addition, county employees haven’t received raises, the step system was abolished and pension contributions increased to 5% for HCG employees. These steps have made the county leaner, more efficient and increased duties for remaining employees. The Sheriff’s office, Courts and School System did not have to go through the same level of staff reductions, furloughs, and attrition. These depts need to reduce their expenses accordingly and acheive their own savings. The surplus still remains the people’s money and I guess the county can spend it as it wishes, however I will expect a reduction in my taxes next year as they county obviously needed less to run operations than planned.
Approximately 100 positions were eliminated (people actually lost their jobs) by HCPS for the current school year, some of them teacher positions.
@Reality-Can you tell me where you got this information? I haven’t seen amything to confirm your statement. I don’t think any teachers have been laid off, fired or furloughed. The mere fact that a few positions haven’t been filled doesn’t equate people being fired. The level of sacrifice hasn’t been the same for all county departments so the reward should not be equal.
My wifes building lost a custodian. The lose was fealt through attrician. Additionally when a custodian is out there is no replacement for them they pick up the slack. They also lost a math teacher position despite an increase in enrollment.
I see some records that show that 22 temporary positions which were previously funded with the stimuls plan were eliminated. Since these positions were temporary, their elimination was already expected, thus no pain was inflicted to present teachers. In addition, the positions seem to be for paraeducators, not teachers. as Paul Mc would say “have a nice day”
I recall this information from watching BOE meetings during last years budget debate. The exact figures are buried somewhere in the individual line items of the budget submitted by the superintendent. While I cannot point you to the specific lines I can tell you that I know several people in the school system that have verified my previous post.
Yes, many of the those “classroom” positions were supported through federal funding that dried up. But they were “classroom” related positions nevertheless. While not classified as “teachers” their presence in the classroom to assist with special education students was invaluable to the certified teacher in the classroom and the special needs students they served.
HCSP also eliminated a few mentor and instructional facilitator positions in addition to several actual elementary school teacher positions.
Other staff reductions came out of Hickory Ave., administrative (certified teachers and non-certified personnel) and clerical support. Many of those who were in these eliminated positions were absorbed into other vacancies created (retirements, quit, etc.) within the school system. However, some could not be placed and actually lost their jobs. The end result is the same, the school system eliminated close to 100 staff positions – most coming directly out of the classroom.
vacancy and attrition do not inflic pain or share sacrifice on present teachers. Teachers did not have furloughs, which for county employees amounted to an actual cut in pay as opposed to lack of a raise which teachers can’t really claim as a net loss from their present pay, future pay perhaps….county employees have taken it on the chin so that teachers could keep their inflated health care benefits and pension plan that pays more to them once retired than that of other county employees. BOE gets 50% of all county revenues which really begs the question that if the county can find savings a surplusses, why can’t the BOE do the same? The cuts sustained by county staff amounted to layoffs, retirement for some for which no one was hired to replace them and changes to new hires whom won’t receive the same type of benefits that other employees receive. Your job while needed is no more needed than a planner, engineer, inspector, attorney, or sheriff deputy. Teachers need to stop whinning about their jobs as if they are the only professions that need certification or master degrees. I can tell you that our emergency personnel, dpw and water dept employees answer the call of duty 24×7 and they don’t complain about it eiher. If teaching is a labor of love, then you should not expect to make the type of money that private industry job pays. You can try being a private school teacher if working for the county just doesn’t pay you enough. As a taxpayer, my taxes haven’t decreased in a measurable way…I don’t think a $5.00 cut in my monthly property tax escrow amounts to more than that. The county has proven that it can become more efficient with less, so their employees deserve a bonus, the BOE has not reduced any costs and gets to share in the bonus because they are “public employees” also? I don’t see how the sacrifice of others amounts to teachers deserving this bonus.
You do understand that some of the surplus money was obtained by the BOE giving back money upon request each of the last three years.
You are correct. Last year it was in the neighborhood of three million. And the county has cut the school system budget still further this year.
Cdev is correct.
Additionally I might point oput that the BOE has the lion’s share of the county budget because it employ’s most of the county employee’s out of neccessity.
I never implied that school system employees were more important than other county employees. I was just saying that some school system employees lost jobs and positions were eliminated.
The school system has managed to have surplus funds over the past few years through effective management. Some of those funds have been held as rainy day funds for emergency use, others for operational costs. County government does the same. It appears that this year the surplus is larger than expected and the County Executive has chosen to use some of those funds to support one time payments to county employees that have been denied raises due to the recession.
State law prohibits a reduction in student attendance days. How would you reasonably fill classrooms and provide other needed services to students if school system employees were furloughed? The school system can’t get enough substitutes under normal conditions, and extending the school year is not acceptable to the majority of the public.
Costs have gone up for everyone. School system employees have seen negative gross pay because of additional medical benefit and pension costs just like everyone else.
Hey Roman,
“vacancy and attrition do not inflic pain or share sacrifice on present teachers.” – They actually cut some positions, such as when a teacher retires and they don’t refill that position.
“Teachers did not have furloughs,” – No, they didn’t. It would be difficult to do so since the students are required to attend school a certain amount of days.
“which for county employees amounted to an actual cut in pay as opposed to lack of a raise which teachers can’t really claim as a net loss from their present pay,” – Did all these county employees have an agreed upon contract which was not honored by the county?
“future pay perhaps….” – Perhaps, and perhaps current pay as well.
“county employees have taken it on the chin so that teachers could keep their inflated health care benefits and pension plan that pays more to them once retired than that of other county employees.” – Teachers have taken it on the chin as well.
“BOE gets 50% of all county revenues” – Which is typical for a county, unless you would rather the children to be uneducated.
“which really begs the question that if the county can find savings a surplusses, why can’t the BOE do the same?” – They have.
“The cuts sustained by county staff amounted to layoffs, retirement for some for which no one was hired to replace them and changes to new hires whom won’t receive the same type of benefits that other employees receive.” – Same for the school system.
“Your job while needed is no more needed than a planner, engineer, inspector, attorney, or sheriff deputy.” – Not exactly true. The Maryland Constitution mandates that children in Maryland receive an education. Also, there have been numerous federal court decisions that state education is required. I haven’t seen a court decision or anything in the constitution that requires an engineer.
“Teachers need to stop whinning about their jobs as if they are the only professions that need certification or master degrees.” – They may not be the only ones that need it, but they do need it, and not many other professions in the government require an advanced degree.
“I can tell you that our emergency personnel, dpw and water dept employees answer the call of duty 24×7 and they don’t complain about it eiher.” – Do they get overtime? Did they sign a contract?
“If teaching is a labor of love, then you should not expect to make the type of money that private industry job pays.” – No, but the whole thing about getting a lower pay with good benefits and an anual raise is why some people go into the profession.
“You can try being a private school teacher if working for the county just doesn’t pay you enough.” – Typically, less qualified and less pay for private schools.
“As a taxpayer, my taxes haven’t decreased in a measurable way…I don’t think a $5.00 cut in my monthly property tax escrow amounts to more than that.” – Teachers make less now than they did three years ago.
“The county has proven that it can become more efficient with less, so their employees deserve a bonus,” – I would agree to that if the teachers received their last few raises which were contracted.
“the BOE has not reduced any costs” – Not true.
“and gets to share in the bonus because they are “public employees” also?” – They should get the bonues and their raises.
“I don’t see how the sacrifice of others amounts to teachers deserving this bonus.” – Teachers sacrifice as well.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul, your counter arguments are short and not quite to the point. Can you really win a point by just asking a counter question? My comprehensive counter answer in no particular order:county employees are represented by classified unions and do work under a collective bargained agreement as teachers do. Your BOE staff has not had any furloghs or cuts in pay. Your condescending attitude that teachers are required by state law does not negate that the county has to provide all services the county needs by either local, state or federal law. Education isoe area in which the govt is involved and thus resources have to be divided amongst all functions of govt from police, jail, courts, planning and zoning, inspections, housing, law, health dept…do you want me to actually name all the functions that the county has to provide by local, state or federal law? There isn’t a function that the county doesn’t do that the law doesn’t require. I bet teachers would have no problem if all other county depts would receive cuts as long as they were to keep their iron clad step raises, which have been elimitated for all other county classified positions. This change by itself will probably mean that in the future the county will have a hard time recruiting and keeping talented govt staff, but as long as the teachers get theirs,it doesn’t really matter whether BOE gets 50% or 60% of county revenue. Your BOE cuts have been a minimum, no major changes to the compensation structure ie, changes your step system, post retirement benefits remain the same for teachers, but not for county employees. Did I mention that furloughs haven’t been implemented by the BOE even though there are plenty of teacher in service days, training days and holidays that other county offices don’t get. Even the courts have to abide by them, so does the jail system. It meant that some staff had to take unpaid leave at different times, this is something that the school system could have done, but it was expeditious for them to not do it because of state law requirements. Your counter arguments are a joke.
Roman you are aware that the BOE get’s 50% of the county budget because it is large by need. It employ’s 2/3rds of the counties employees. On top of that you fuss about the teacher’s pension. Teachers are enrolled in the state pension system. Currently the state pays that benefit and not the county. Following the current reforms it will be self sufficient by 2018. I am not saying teachers are more deserving but they certianly are not less deserving.
Hey Roman,
“Paul, your counter arguments are short and not quite to the point.” – Thank you for your opinion. Mine is that your original arguments were jokes.
“Can you really win a point by just asking a counter question?” – Sometimes. Can you?
“My comprehensive counter answer in no particular order:” – Yay.
“county employees are represented by classified unions and do work under a collective bargained agreement as teachers do.” – Then I would expect their contracts to be honored. Are all the county workers in unions?
“Your BOE staff has not had any furloghs or cuts in pay.” – Education is a constitutional issue with required minimum amount of days. Big difference.
“Your condescending attitude that teachers are required by state law does not negate that the county has to provide all services the county needs by either local, state or federal law.” – Not everything the county provides is required by law. Education is. As for condenscending, I was not trying to be. If you read it that way, that is on you.
“Education isoe area in which the govt is involved and thus resources have to be divided amongst all functions of govt from police, jail, courts, planning and zoning, inspections, housing, law, health dept…do you want me to actually name all the functions that the county has to provide by local, state or federal law?” – Sure.
“There isn’t a function that the county doesn’t do that the law doesn’t require.” – There isnt? I bet if you look long enough you will find at least one.
“I bet teachers would have no problem if all other county depts would receive cuts as long as they were to keep their iron clad step raises, which have been elimitated for all other county classified positions.” – I don’t know if they would or not.
“This change by itself will probably mean that in the future the county will have a hard time recruiting and keeping talented govt staff, but as long as the teachers get theirs,it doesn’t really matter whether BOE gets 50% or 60% of county revenue.” – The teachers aren’t getting theirs.
“Your BOE” – The county BOE.
“cuts have been a minimum, no major changes to the compensation structure ie, changes your step system, post retirement benefits remain the same for teachers,” – Cuts have been siignificant.
“but not for county employees.” – Same for county, significant cuts.
“Did I mention that furloughs haven’t been implemented by the BOE even though there are plenty of teacher in service days, training days and holidays that other county offices don’t get.” – Plenty? That is your opinion. Mine is that there are very few in service days, training days, and holidays. Also, if you use a training day, when does the training get done?
“Even the courts have to abide by them, so does the jail system.” – Ok.
“It meant that some staff had to take unpaid leave at different times, this is something that the school system could have done, but it was expeditious for them to not do it because of state law requirements.” -So, you want the teachers to take furlough days and have class rooms with what, 50, 60, 70 students? Yea, great class room environment there. Damn those state laws.
“Your counter arguments are a joke.” – Thank you for your opinion. Mine is that all your arguments are jokes. See, we both have opinions. Yay us.
Anyways, have a nice day.
In reading the comments from Harford County, they could come from almost anywhere in the country. In one school district here in York County, the average teacher’s salary is $80,000, plus great health benefits. We have no checks and balances on their pay. The budget is submitted to the school board by the school superintendent, and that’s it. There is no county executive to look at the costs and cut this budget. The teachers’ unions demand more and more all the time, and our property taxes pay 70% of the school costs. The pensions are astronomical compared to private industry.
More and more people are having difficulty paying these taxes and are demanding something be done. I, for one, don’t believe teachers and other public employees should have the right to collective bargaining. It has produced astronomical debt in pension promises. Many of the new governors have taken on the unions regarding this as the states can’t afford this any longer. Even liberal California is taking a hard stance.
As to education, many of the systems have dumbed down. Some of the high school graduates who were in the top tier have had to take remedial courses in college because they were not prepared. We need to take steps to stop this downward spiral in our educational system. We are spending billions of dollars and the end result does not justify the means.
We need to get Washington out of our educational system and let the states set up the guidelines. We need to get the unions out of the schools and go back to a system where the principal can hire and fire. The taxpayers are paying the teacher’s salaries, and they are forced to pay dues to the union which goes to a political party. This needs to stop. We need to take politics out of education.
Although I doubt it will make a difference in your thinking here are a couple points to consider.
1. HCPS teachers don’t have great benefits, don’t have a great pension, and don’t make what their PA counterparts make.
2. Collective bargaining is a workers rights issue if public employees don’t have it why should anyone. This country was built with union labor.
3. “Dumbing Down” happens partially due to an inability of our schools to attract and retain highly intelligent and effective teachers over time. Remedial classes make colleges $$$$. In tightening budgets more and more students take remedial classes. We are asking more from students earlier than ever.
4. Pensions are and should be separate from debt. Pensions are a separate fund.
5. The system of education which you propose would foster anti-intellectualism, discrimination, stagnation and corruption. National initiatives and standards have increased the quality and equity of our schools over time.
6. Teachers and other public service employees are tax-payers too.
You are correct on many levels. But the main problem with education in America is not teachers it is the Federal Government interfering with local authority. NCLB deserves most of the blame for the dumbed down education our kids are getting. Teachers can’t really teach because it’s all about the testing. But our society has changed too. I hear teacher friends tell me all the time that kids don’t want to do the work or study. They think they should get a good grade just for showing up. And when a kid don’t get a good grade or the teacher tries to hold a kid accountable because they act like a jerk in class parents immediately want to blame the teacher. Not sure how it is up there in PA but down here in MD (a very liberal and big government state) the state board of education rides roughshod over the local school boards. If you want to change the kind of education our kids are getting start by changing your representatives in Congress and at the state level and do away with the entitlement attitude of our society.
The federal government had nothing to do with the numerous poor teachers I ran into, K-12. Everyone knew whom the poor teachers were, and nothing was done because they were protected, tenured teachers. This union protection of poor teachers has more to do with the level of education that you receive then any of the federal policies that were in place at the time.
1. Get rid of the federal department of education. Keep those tax dollars local instead of sending them to the feds and having them filtered back to us.
2. Merit pay for teachers. Good teachers make more.
3. Cut sports before pay for good teachers.
I am all for giving a bonus to those teachers that deserve a bonus. To all of you that complain what you make, take another job and make more. Very easy.
Don’t know your age but I can say that in my day I had very few “poor” teachers. Obviously there will always be some better and some worse, most will fall in the middle. I actually believe the bell curve applies within all professions. I agree – get rid of the US Dept of ED. My comment to NCLB is just an extension of that thinking, as all energies seem to be placed on passing tests not that the kids can actually think. I believe that is the real purpose of schooling to learn how to think and facts and other information kids learn is to help them be able to made good decisions with the information they have. Unfortunately all this test preping keeps teachers from helping kids learn to do that. I am all in favor of moving out poor teachers but I don’t believe unions really have anything to do with education policy dictates coming from the federal government.
@OT – I think you hit the nail on the head. I could not agree with you more.
You may want to consider in PA your BOE has taxing authority. You pay a school tax specifically for that. You elect the BOE to make those decisions. If they vote for teacher pay raises and you do not like that….vote for someone else.
Additionally the great pay and benifits in PA are the reason you get the cream of the crop teachers. You also have about 50-70 applicants for each position.
Craig for Governor!
Do I agree with the decision? Maybe. Maybe not. I would really have to see the details of how it is implemented. Do I like a guy who can run a surplus? Compared to the clowns in Annapolis I’m enchanted.
Craig for Governor? Maybe not my first choice but light years ahead of the incumbent.
ALex there will be no incumbent in the next election.
If this is the attitude and opinion of the public towards teachers, it’s a wonder that HCPS can keep them… Oh, that’s right-they are having trouble keeping them and being able to get new hires…
Hey First Citizen,
The county really isnt keeping its teachers.
Harford County is currently ranks last amongst it neighbors in teacher salary, while have one of the higher costs of living in the state. Yet, according to some, the teachers of Harford County don’t deserve a raise because the school system isn’t saving money. Brilliant.
That surplus was generated while expanding the upper management-at higher salaries-and fund their bonuses, and still fund a fact finding trip to China…
Not sure but the CHina trip is being paid for by out of county sources.
Roman,
Just because you want to ignore the state law regarding the minimum school year (180 days for students) and the county mandate for teachers to work (190 days min.) because you do not agree with it is not a valid argument. By the way, all of those holidays that you want to talk about that teachers get are UNPAID. Furlogh days were discussed as well as having teachers work days unpaid. The Furlogh days were shot down due to state law and the fact that parents would go crazy having to pay for additional day care as they often do for weather closings, and working days for no pay were shot down due to the law suits that would have been file.
As much as people want to call HCEA a union, it is not. They have bargaining rights and provide legal protection for its members. As far as collective bargaining, well that is a joke. The BOE has frequently negotiated a contract then reniged on the contract and said this is what you are going to get deal with it and teachers have had no recourse. Teachers over the last decade have rejected contracts, but because the BOE has still gotten what they have wanted contract wise.
As far as if the teachers deserve the bonus, or to have the actual contract promises honored, maybe you should thumb through the articles on this website about what the students are achieving as far as SAT scores, national competitions, or look at the school marquees in June bragging about the amount of scholarship dollars earned, but in your mind I guess the students do that all on their own.
Just because HCPS hasn’t officially laid off anybody, you might want to get a look and find out how many people have been ‘released from their contracts’ over the last two years or suddenly found to have unsatisfactory performance after 15+ years of exemplary service.
Ram, you almost sound like Dr. Tomback…
Teachers ave not paid the price required to demand or deserve a bonus as they haven’t contributed to the surplus now at play due to county efficiencies and consolidation of depts, services and duties. The county’s role is mandated by charter as a self rule jurisdiction within the state of Maryland. Teachers could have taken an unpaid holiday to account for ONE FURLOUGH during any fiscal year, but the fact is that they didn’t and now they cry that their sacrifice and loss of unearned raises accounts to an actual drop in pay. The jail system made sure all employees took their furlough days as did emergency operations, this did not mean that the whole dept closed, just meant that on any day some staff did not get paid or showed up for work. Just let the Dagger readers know that you didn’t take the furlough day because your pocket, bank account and self interest overides the needs of the county and the taxpayer.
ROman,
Teachers are already not paid for the holidays. They can not take an unpaid holiday.
The BOE returned $3 million dollars in 2011. Returning more that year would have subjected the county to a $7 Million dollar fine for MOE. $1.4 Million came from teachers paying more for their health insurance.
Money was also returned in 2010 and 2009 similarly. This was despite the fact it was not required to return it and teachers got no steps those years.
@ Roman- As a fiscal conservative, even I am finding it a bit hard to find much merit in all your words. Several of the most conservative individuals who post on this board have stated that they support this decision. I myself, object to the use of the term “bonus”, but I am perhaps being too picky. I am thinking that you might just have an ax to grind against teachers, but maybe I am mistaken. Although I respect your right to voice your opinion, I just can’t quite follow the logic.
It is also interesting that Dr. Tomback wanted to control the money, and this started a pretty heated argument between he and Craig. Maybe he wants to try and pull the stunt he did his first year.
RE: DISTRIBUTION OF $32MILLION TAXPAYERS DOLLARS SURPLUS TO GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES
“Gosh, I wonder what the distribution of the $32 Million surplus to County employees as BONUSES could be connection to?? It looks like government workers are all about SELF with no thought of how it might work out the next time there’s a surplus! What if there’s a surplus next time and you are not one of the chosen?? AND wasn’t it serendipitous for the incumbent that the surplus happened in an election year?? Good planning, do you think? THIS is how large government perpetuates itself. If you are IN the game, it’s a great scheme. Who would dare to vote against the one who lathers butter on your bread?”
Perhaps we need to cut back on the amount of taxes collected by Harford County. Why doesn’t the County write up the budget for the following year and then collect taxes equivalent to the needs of the County based on that budget. It works in the business world.
Nancy, there are no officials runnig for office. In addition, businesses do not operate on a day to day budget, most of the time they work on an expected budget, subject to revision unless you are talking about a self employed individual, most businesses workout their costs according to past revenues and adjust for current expenses as govt does. The surplus is really a result of higher than expected revenues and lower overall costs than projected. CDEV, you’re right teachers don’t get holidays but they do get paid for 190 days which really begs the question, why couldn’t teachers agree to a reduction in pay equal to 5 furlogh days like other county employees? Likewise, county employees are also working with no raises.
Roman,
Please inform me–Outside of education, how is the salary compensation for other county workers specifically structured? I checked the Harford County Government website, and all I could find was a range for each position (a HUGE range at that. Like “salary will be from $20/hr to $48/hr”). How do raises usually get handled for other county employees during a “regular” economy? Are they given a step-schedule? Is it handled on an individual basis? Does it vary from dept to dept?
Roman under your reduction plan would teachers only have to work 185 days? since to be fair you did not go to work on those furlough days. Which 5 days would they not work? if it is any of the 180 student days a sub would be needed. That would cost extra money. if you propose eliminating inservice days, like some counties hae done then which ones. You can not ask someone to actually work and not pay them for the day as you expose yourself to a huge liability.
CDEV- I got it!!!. Teachers should not be asked to do anything that would cost them anything because it would be a hardship for the whole school system. Let the county employees take the furloghts and when there is money in the coffers, give the teachers a bonus that they didn’t contribute just because teachers are hard working, nice, educated and so underpaid anyway…
What we have here is failure to communicate!!!
READ!
Do You have a comprehension problem son?
Logisitcally how would you furlough teachers for 5 days while providing 180 instructional days, as is required by law? As I said if you furlough the teacher during a day with kids you then spend extra money on a substitute. This leaves 10 inservice days. Which ones do you furlough them on and comply with all the myriad of federal and state laws?
It is impractical to furlough teachers since there is no money saved.
You can furlough administrators and we could dock teachers 1/2 day a month in pay both of which would save taxpayer money.
BS
According to the FLSA teacher’s are exempt employees and may only be docked pay for the following.
“”The FLSA allows employers to make deductions of an exempt employee’s salary under certain circumstances, including:
•When the employee is absent for one or more full days for personal reasons
•When the employee is absent for one or more full days for sickness or disability if the employer has a plan that compensates the employee for lost salary
•To offset the amount the employee receives from jury service, witness fees, or for military pay
•To impose a penalty in good faith for the violation of safety rules of major significance
•For unpaid disciplinary suspensions of one or more full days imposed in good faith for infractions of workplace rules of conduct
•For unpaid leave under the Family and Medical Leave Act
•During the first or last week of employment if the employee does not work a full week””
So please tell me which one of the above applies to docking teachers pay to save money?
FLSA further states that not paying an employee while they are working makes them liable for a lot of things leagally.
So BS you want them to work and do it for free? That is worse then furloughs!
They have a word for that….Slavery! Actually slaves get housing and food!
CDEV you are full of crap…teachers can take a cut in pay equal to 5 furlogh days or teachers can take a furlough day that would not affect school operations without school being shut down. Other shool systems cut the number of inservice days to balance their budgets. This is the type of attitude that gives teachers a bad name. The fact is teachers are public employees just like everyone else that works for a govt entity. It comes with certain benefits and allowances, but at the same time you can’t have private market pay and public service benefits and its not cool when in the middle of a fiscal crisis that teachers think only about their pocket book.
Hey Roman,
“CDEV you are full of crap…” – Way to stay classy.
“teachers can take a cut in pay equal to 5 furlogh days or teachers can take a furlough day that would not affect school operations without school being shut down.” Sure, after they get the step raises they were contracted to have for the last three years, as well as having proper negotiations for benefits, like the county failed to do. Take care of this and maybe then teachers could deal with a furlough day. As of right now, teachers are bringing home less than they did three years ago.
“Other shool systems cut the number of inservice days to balance their budgets.” – Each situation is different.
“This is the type of attitude that gives teachers a bad name.” – No, you seem to try to give teachers a bad name. Teachers work hard, for less pay and more aggrivation than most.
“The fact is teachers are public employees just like everyone else that works for a govt entity.” – Yes, they are public employees.
“It comes with certain benefits and allowances, but at the same time you can’t have private market pay and public service benefits and its not cool when in the middle of a fiscal crisis that teachers think only about their pocket book.” – Some of the benefits were annual raises, good benefits, and steady employment. During the economic boom, I didn’t see you calling for giving the teachers huge pay raises to equal the private sector.
You seem so set on comparing teachers to other county employees and their situation. The fact is, you really can’t. Each job/position is different, with different rules, laws, and regulations in play. Furthermore, the funding for each entity comes from different places. Also, the requirements to be a teacher are generally more restrictive as opposed to the other entities.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Roman,
As I have said several times….HOW!!!! Please explain exactly which day you would eliminate and not break the law. How can teachers take a furlough day wothout shutting down? When the state take furlough days they shut down. SO please explain HOW! What 5 days would you eliminate from the current calendar. Haveing employees work and not paying them is against the law. It exposes Harford County to a HUGE lawsuit. The no furlough, furlough is not an option for those reasons. Docking payis not legal.
As a mother of three children in the school system I am worried that the better qualified teachers will start leaving. If I worked for a company who did not give me a raise for working hard in three years and apparently has no intention of giving me one in the near future I would start looking else where. There may not be a teacher’s shortage now but would you go to work for a county who is one of the lowest paid in the state and is not giving raises? Especially if you have student loans to pay for. If you are a great teacher you will be able to find a better job and those who are not with continue to keep working here.
Disregard this comment I cannot delete it sorry.
The shortage is already happening. Science teachers are hard to find, Math Teachers are getting hard to find and Special education teachers….well we have alot who are not certified as such.
Instead of teacher bashing why don’t we take a closer look at the sheriffs dept budget– In the Harford Co Sheriff’s dept policemen are entitled to a FREE yes FREE divorce lawyer– why are our taxes paying for their divorces???
I don’t know where you get your information but you are completely off track. The only lawyer benefit that is “given” is through the Union which is “paid for” by member fees.