The following letter was sent to U.S. Senators Barbara Mikulski and Ben Cardin. A copy was provided to The Dagger for publication:
This letter is to express my disappointment regarding the subject legislation. We can no longer afford to “kick the can down the road”. The debt is larger than yesterday and will be larger yet tomorrow. There must be, on the next go around, steps taken to reduce the deficits and the national debt. The housing bubble of 2009 will be seen as small potatoes when compared to the Debt/Dollar Bubble coming down the tracks. We cannot continue to spend beyond our means and I think you know it as well as me. What we need is for our representatives in the Senate and the House to have the political courage to get our fiscal house in order before disaster strikes; before the Dollar resembles something more like the Mexican Peso in value.
On a personal note, I was happy for the government workers to see their back pay restored and their pay increased at the same time. Keep in mind, however, that my Harford County kids, three teachers and a sheriff’s deputy, have not had an increase in pay for four(4) years; this while their cost of living has increased in the neighborhood of 25% (I know, you don’t count food and energy in the CPI).
So, I guess you could say “I’m mad as hell” about our country living beyond its means while my family lives responsibly within their means. Their real income has dropped over the recent five years with increased contributions to both healthcare and pensions. The individual tightens his belt while the Federal Government goes on its happy way spending other people’s money like there is no tomorrow.
I implore you to seek unfamiliar ground and get government spending under control. In other words, Balance the Budget like we do in the private sector!
Sincerely,
James Thatcher
Bel Air, MD
What if a typical family spent like the federal government?
http://tinyurl.com/q56zxt4
You have no idea how many households would put their spending on continuing resolution if they could. I certainly would. And like almost everyone in Congress and the White House should be, I am out of work. What a wonderful thing if I could just spend money I don’t have like my elected officials do!!
Many Americans live on a CR, it is called living paycheck to paycheck!
@Cdev –
Do you actually believe the foolishness you write? – “Many Americans live on a CR, it is called living paycheck to paycheck!”
Living paycheck to paycheck means you only spend what comes in the paycheck. Government does not do that. Government spends approximately 40% more than it takes in paycheck to paycheck.
Not always you can rob peter to pay Paul which a lot of pay check to paycheck people do. Additionally a CR is simply a short period budget not a long term budget. You can have a CR which does not have a deficit!
You can have a CR which does not have a deficit, but we don’t have one. A CR simply means things continue as they are, and what things are, is the government spends 40% more than it takes in.
You can have a CR with a decrease in spending. You could have one with an increase as well. The only thing is it is not permanent!
But what we got in the last CR was one that has increased spending. Some could even say that it included earmarks of several billion!
Increased spending ? It continued sequestration ?
The last CR included over 3 billion of increased spending for a dam project on the Ohio river and road repair in the state of Colorado. Even with sequestration, the government is spending more this fiscal year than last year. All sequestration did was reduce the amount of the increase.
Mike, You are casting pearls before swine. The Lib/Dems and the Republicans are both trying to make people believe that ‘cutting the budget’ is giving the government less than it requests even if it is more than the current actual. And I have a message for McConnell. Mitch, your time is up. I consider the $3 Billion dam project a slap in the face to fiscal conservatives and in the private sector it would be rightly labeled for what it is – a bribe for your support. If I were a constituent of yours I would be looking for someone to replace you. You need to go and a lot of others as well from both sides of the aisle.
The Damn project was requested by the Army Core of Engineers
And people in hell are requesting ice water, Cdev. And I suppose they would get it if they had a US Senator putting it in as a pork barrel project and Harry Reid and Barack Obama and John Boehner agreeing to it. I didn’t know you were a big fan of McConnell. Better contribute to his campaign quickly because he just might be former Senator McConnell after the next election..
Great letter, thanks for sending it, and thanks for sharing it with us!
Be on the lookout for either a petition drive, or a protest, or both to take place in the very near future regarding the fiscally irresponsible creation of an aviation unit by the Harford County Sheriff’s Department. We need to stand up to these imbeciles that work for us!
Let’s see….the last POTUS to balance the budget was Bill Clinton, and the last two presidents in modern history to increase the deficit by large percentages were…..Barack Obama and Ronald Reagan. It appears as though Obama and Reagan have mutual habits! 🙂
Clinton did not balance the budget, he tried to spend more, newt shut the government down by insisting Clinton come to the table and live within his means. It was only then Clinton gave in and the CONGRESS passed a balanced budget, which Clinton signed. Remember that constitution you all seem to forget about. ALL spending bills must originate in the house of representatives.
I agree with this entirely. But it needs to be done in a responsible fashion. In metaphorical terms, for every trashy magazine subscription the Feds can cancel to save money, there’s also a meal to buy. Spending must be cut, but it must be done in a reasonable way over time, as expeditiously as possible.
But the part missing from this letter, and from most of the position in the right is talk about increasing revenues. If your family was in the red and not able to pay all of its bills– if it had cell phone or cable service contracts for 2 years that they can’t just not pay— what would you do?
You’d get another job, or sell things you own– you’d raise revenues to make ends meet.
As a nation we have kicked this can SO FAR down the road that there NO hope of ONLY cutting our way to salvation. Everyone is going to have to give if we are going to dig out of this disaster. We’re going to have to give up our pork, our benefits, our raises, and our taxes, because if we don’t, we’ll still end up kicking that can.
We’ve got about 20-30 years to straighten this out, which is about 5-7 election cycles. This current batch of elected officials, everyone one of them, has to go. If the next batch can’t do it, then they go. And so on until we finally have people who don’t see their election as a ticket to paradise and will actually do the work of the people.
I agree with you – we have to grow the economy, perhaps raise reasonable and targeted revenues and reduce spending to get out of this. I used to think thoughtful people would get in a room, see it for what it is and recognizing the selfishness and irresponsibility of leaving nothing for the next generations do the right thing but I’m no so sure anymore. Try cutting anything; even duplicative and wasteful programs and they trot out images of starving babies and old people eating cans of cat food. We should know that’s mostly manipulative BS; somebody’s effort to protect thier own government budget but it works – the press ends up manipulating the message, nobody wants to look like the bad guy and nothing gets done. It almost seems as if we see this slow motion train wreck ahead inching closer and closer to the cliff edge and even though we can apply the brakes nobody will. It’s pure insanity.
Yes, Noble they do all have to go. All of them. It has come to the point where if they don’t go there will be no country left for any of us.
You are kicking the can by saying it will take 20 years. And no we all don’t have to give to fix your mess. That’s socialism, and if don’t work jack
Don’t be angry at Federal employees; be angry at Congress. We’ve had to deal with the sequestration, the fiscal cliff, continuing resolutions for as long as I can remember, no cost of living increases for the last three years and now the shutdown. So it’s not exactly a walk in the park for us, either. Just think of those that are close to retirement. Meantime, Congress still got paid and if I’m correct, they got pay increases…
No pay increase for congress that would be unconstitutional just like the Vitter bill!
Since when do you or any of your cronies give two f**cks about the constitution?
I always have. Could you tone down the language?
Remember that recent deficits are completely driven by the lack of tax revenues due to the ‘Great Recession’; Federal spending has actually been cut significantly since President Obama took office – and those cuts are actually a terrible thing.
The Federal Government MUST NOT ‘tighten its belt’ during a recession or depression – this is VITAL. Despite what so many conservatives like to say, the reality is that government does (and must) create jobs. Countries without a robust public sector are called third-world / developing nations, and without fail have 20% or higher unemployment. The difference in employment is a result of having a public sector. The common retort to this is that ‘private sector will replace those jobs’; but there is no evidence whatsoever that this is the case – in fact states without a public sector have the highest unemployment, the lowest living standards, and the worst health outcomes in our nation.
The only way to maintain acceptable levels of employment and development during an economic turn-down is to supplement money into the economy through government deficit spending. The ability to borrow money is what allowed the US to operate a massive employment drive (WWII) that ended the Great Depression. Sadly our ill-advised ‘sequester’ cuts along with ideologically driven budget cuts in the House have largely stopped President Obama’s efforts to inject necessary funds into our economy and allow us to recover from the ‘Great Recession’. It is sad to think of the tens of thousands of jobs that would have been created in the last two years had the Republicans not taken over the House, and did not enact budget cuts and sequestration. Our country would be much better off today…
Nice Keynsian theory. Very simplistic. Did it occur to you the countries you point out that do not have a public sector do not because they have no stable private sector to support it? You cannot have a robust public sector without a robust private sector, where do you think the funds come from, the government can only print and spend money, it does not produce it. The problem with using Keynes theory is it does not work in reality. What is supposed to happen is the government runs a deficit during recessionary times with TEMPORARY increases in spending to offset the drop in the business cycle. When the cycle turns up, these TEMPORARY increases are to be eliminated and the government is to run a surplus, dampening the inflationary effect of an expanding economy.
Unfortunately, once people and business have a chance to suckle at the government teat, they elect politicians that will enable them to continue this habit. Surpluses, designed to be spent when the economy goes into recession, do not occur. As a result, we have a government designed to transfer wealth from producers to non-producers, dampening the enterpreneurial spirit that drives the economy.
When the economy was booming in the 2000’s, the feds still ran a deficit, hence the conservatives sitting out the 2006 election that brought us the Pelosi House, which coincides with the beginning of the downfall.
This government is bloated, wasteful, inefficient draining resources from our economy and very,very poorly managed. There is no responsibility on the civilian side, as failures (Obamacare exhanges) wasting billions of taxpayer money are repeated constantly. The debt limit should not be increased, passing this debt onto our children is immoral. The belt needs to be tightened NOW. The Senate has not passed a budget since 2009 and voted once on Obama’s budget, defeating it 97-0. No leadership, no accountability. There should be no talk of increasing the debt limit until Reid does what he is legally required to do – pass a budget!!
Wait, so what about the period from 1945-1975 when Keynesianism was the economic consensus and the US and our allies had unparalleled economic growth? Not saying we should go back 100% to Keynesianism, but it does have merits. If you cut too much too fast you end up in a situation like the United Kingdom. They had a deficit and debt about equal to our size ( % of GDP) and the Conservative government set out to eliminate the deficit within 5 years. This lead contraction in the GDP, and they have continued to lag behind our recovery (they had GDP growth of about .5% last quarter). Deficits and debt are a medium/long-term problem (Dick Cheney once famously said deficits don’t matter..). If you are purely focused on tackling unemployment and growth, we need to have more government expenditure in the short term, and reform to entitlements and other spending in the medium to long term.
There are other methods to stimulate economic growth than government spending (which has to come from somewhere, unless you inflate the money supply). The primary reason this economy is dragging is the economic policies of this administration and the class warfare in which is has engaged. Many business owners, facing ever-increasing regulation, uncertainty on Obamacare and it’s multititude of regulatory distress and seeing a federal government starving for money, have either completely given up or decided to not expand their businesses until a better climate prevails.
We need a budget. It is unprecendented that we have gone over 4 years without a federal budget. Also, you referenced the 1945-1975 time period, when the economy experienced unparalleled economic growth. You may notice there were fluctuations in the business cycle and deficit spending was under control. It was when the Great Society programs of the 1960’s took full effect and many people decided that welfare could be a means to live on, the theory fell apart. Once the economy rebounded, those programs did not go away and became a drag on the economy. It took some time and now, look at the federal budget and see how much money is spent primarily on wealth transfer. That is not the purpose of government.
You must mean wealth transfer programs like Social Security, Medicare, and defense contracts right? Because they compose like 10 times more of our budget than the oft-maligned “welfare” programs that you seem to be referring to.
Fact check me, please.
We have this problem precisely because we keep trying to use this failed Keynesian economic strategy.
Give me one piece of evidence – honest evidence (not Republican Party / TEA Party talking points) that suggests that our economic slowdown (which of course started under a Republican president that championed supply-side/trickle-down economics) was started by – or is being exacerbated by – President Obama’s Keynesian policies. Heck – after the ‘sequester’ – it is mighty difficult to look at anything that the federal government is doing now as ‘Keynesian’. I want to know how a government-sponsored works program or development program causes economic slowdown. History is not on your side. Please, enlighten us…
Give me evidence where Keynesian economic policy has worked?
Very simple – look at our economic growth from WWII through 1980 and you have it in droves. Look at Germany since unification, and you have it. Look at the economic turn around in President Obama’s first two years before the Republicans took over the House, you have it. Ignoring reality does not change reality. Republicans can ignore climate change – it is still occurring. Republicans can try to get evolution out of our Biology textbooks – evolution still occurs. Republicans can try to ignore the reality of sound fiscal policy – but Keynesian policy still works…
I guess Russel thinks it is fine to give billion after billion to Wall Street. The only thing your Keynesian policies do is keep us from finding a true bottom and a fix for the problem.
Sound fiscal policy? At some point you have to pay off your sound fiscal policy and the liberals have made no effort to do so. The senate budget proposal never balanced a budget.
The Ryan budget isn’t balanced either!
Didn’t Al Gore suggest using the surplus to pay down the debt?
What ever happened to the surplus? That’s right someone thought it would be wise to send everyone a bunch of checks instead!
It only worked in the sense that it pointed out through jimmy carter that its pig shit, which “young American” your communist teachers fail to inform you about.
The senate passed a budget this April.
March, and it increased taxes, increased debt and never led to balancing. But yes, for the first time in four years the senate passed a budget.
You are right Cdev, my mistake – according to the NY Times 3/23/13 – “After an all-night debate that ended just before 5 a.m., the Senate on Saturday adopted its first budget in four years, a $3.7 trillion blueprint for 2014 that would provide a fast track for passage of tax increases, trim spending modestly and leave the government still deeply in the red a decade from now. ” By a 50-49 vote with 4 DEMs voting against. The budget had not chance in committee as there was not agreement it was even accurate. Forecasted over $5.2 trillion in additional debt over 10 years and was still over $500 billion in the red after that.
Is that the job you sent your Senators to Washington to accomplish?
No, but the fact is they passed one and the GOP refused to negotiate in conference committee which is what should have happened and the GOP promised they would do. Fact is if they had honestly negotiated back than this last 2.5 weeks would not have happened in all likelihood.
Cdev- we have seen the negotiating tactic of this administration. Attack, attack, no negotitation, attack, ridicule. The sequester was their idea yet they constantly attack the GOP and Tea Party for it.
It is very difficult to negotiate such issues when you have no trust (based on previous tactics) the other side is negotiating in good faith. Your only option is to hold your ground or surrender your principles. That is where we are in DC right now.
To be fair when the negotiated with the speaker last time and had a deal he pulled a change and the Senate GOP had to step in and save them before. I think we are getting to the point where we might see a moderate party form.
Cdev- the GOP is the moderate party. The only national conservative party is the Tea Party. The current GOP is the Democratic Party of the 60’s, the current Dems are the Socialist Party of 60’s. Just look at the platforms of the parties.
The Tea party is part of the GOP. Until they run candidates on their own they are not a party. The GOP thought they could control them for their own benefit and it is backfiring. We will see if they go the route of evangelicals or form a third party.
The peter g peterson foundation released their special report “The Cost of Crisis-Driven Fiscal Policy ” which squarely puts the blame on the republicans and their block everything form of governing. Numbers like 1 million more on unemployment, 900,000 less new jobs created By holding the country in gridlock we are quickly going broke. It’s pathetic.
And for those who don’t know Peterson foundation is a conservative think tank staffed by very smart people.
And where is the President and Reid on this. Have they passed a budget in 4 years? Why do you think we keep having crisis?! No budget.
Yes they passed one in April. Someone didn’t want to negotiate in a conference comittee. So much for regular order
And no blame for Obamacare?
That kind of moronic thinking is what got us in this mess to begin with. Its not the Federal Governments job to create jobs. Get out of our way and let me create jobs.
By the way, I just gave thumbs to the last half dozen comments or so simply for having sensible factual conversation, even if I disagreed.
Maybe there’s hope for the Dagger.
Bipartisanship at its finest
If you’re a Republican complaining about the national debt, you must have had a hysterical fit when Reagan tripled it and Bush doubled it again. Reagan raised the debt ceiling 18 times. In his first term, Reagan raised taxes when unemployment was nearing 11% and proceeded to raise taxes seven out of the eight years he was in office. It’s a fact the right finds terribly inconvenient, but “no peacetime president has raised taxes so much on so many people” as Reagan.
Reagan $1.7T
Bush I $1.5
Clinton $1.5T
Bush II $5T
Obama $7T and he’s still in office
Cdev: The reason the debt has gone up during President Obama’s term has less to do with spending and more to do with revenue. First of all, “President Obama has increased the amount of government spending by a lower percentage than any previous president since Hoover when adjusted for inflation.” Secondly, the top 1% and even mere millionaires have gotten a wild windfall tax break by the GOP. What this translates to is less revenue because the wealthiest do not pay their fair share of taxes (case in point is the Mitt who paid between 10 and 13% while normal middleclass paid over 28%). Today, the top 1% owns more wealth than the bottom 90% of Americans combined yet they only pay 30% of the total taxes. That means that the 99% pays 70% of the taxes. If they own 90% of the wealth, then they should pay 90% of the taxes instead of you picking up their share (unless you are a billionaire too.) Third, corporations have used tax dodges to cause the middle class to pick up their share. Case in point is GE who paid zero in taxes while making billions in profits and even managed to get millions in tax refunds. According to the New York Times story, GE reported U.S. profits of $5.1 billion in 2010 (and $14.2 billion worldwide). “Its American tax bill?” asked the Times. “None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.” The company accomplished this, the story said, due to “an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore.” ExxonMobil and Shell earned $9.6 billion and $6.1 billion respectively, bringing their total 2012 profits to $35 billion for Exxon and $18.9 billion for Shell. Exxon received an estimated $600 million in annual tax breaks. It paid just a 13 percent federal tax rate. Apple has saved over $74 billion dollars in American corporate taxes since it started moving assets to Irish shell corporations that consist of little more than an address and paperwork a few decades ago. So how does one fund a government when the GOP/Tea Party has starved it of revenue for the benefit of the very few?: debt.
So…. once again, it is not Obama’s fault, he is doing the best he can. But EVERYTHING that happened during the 8 years before him was Bush’s fault.
Can you please name something Obama has done to engender such accolades from his adoring fans in the media?
Also – keep in mind right after GE paid no income tax their President was named to Obama’s jobs commission to give it credibility. Nice little reward for paying no taxes, obviously did not bother the current administration.
I love how we keep hearing from liberals that the rich don’t pay their fair share. Hey, I agree. I think anyone with more than a few million in wealth is no different from the crazy lady with 50 cats. They’re both hoarders. But if you think that if the Dems had the White House, the Senate and the House that they’d finally go after the rich, you’re sadly mistaken. The rich are powerful, donate lots of money to campaigns and poor people don’t hire lobbyists. Politicians suck. Period. Get over it. They’re like diapers, they need to be changed often and for the same reason. The one you and most of the media currently attribute godhood to ran around on the campaign trail telling us it was unpatriotic to increase the debt. I have no time or patience for zealots. He’s just another lying politician. You know why the signup website for O’care doesn’t work even though they had three years to get it ready? Because the government is in charge. The government is rife with laziness and incompetence. No one will be held accountable and everyone will get a bonus. The government has no bottom line. There is no impetus to be efficient or frugal. If they run out of money, no, wait, they can’t. I see no hope that any of this will change now that slackers and layabouts number enough to keep electing those that will keep handing out other peoples (including those who haven’t been born yet) money.
“The government is rife with laziness and incompetence.” This is the kind of over generalization and lazy logic one can expect from a GOP/tea bagger. To make such an unsubstantiated statement flies in the face of every soldier, sailor, police officer, fireman, teacher and worker that sacrifices to provide service. However, I would agree with “ the GOP government is rife with laziness and incompetence (as well as greed, hate and fear).”
Well, since you do not like taxes or government, please DO NOT: 1. use Medicare. 2. use Social Security 3. become a member of the US military, who are paid with tax dollars. 4. ask the National Guard to help you after a disaster. 5. call 911 when you get hurt. 6. call the police to stop intruders in your home. 7. summon the fire department to save your burning home. 8. drive on any paved road, highway, and interstate or drive on any bridge. 9. use public restrooms. 10. send your kids to public schools. 11. put your trash out for city garbage collectors. 12. live in areas with clean air. 13. drink clean water. 14. visit National Parks. 15. visit public museums, zoos, and monuments. 16. eat or use FDA inspected food and medicines. 17. bring your kids to public playgrounds. 18. walk or run on sidewalks. 19. use public recreational facilities such as basketball and tennis courts. 20. seek shelter facilities or food in soup kitchens when you are homeless and hungry. 21. apply for educational or job training assistance when you lose your job. 22. apply for food stamps when you can’t feed your children. 23. use the judiciary system for any reason. 24. ask for an attorney when you are arrested and ask for one to be assigned to you by the court. 25. apply for any Pell Grants. 26. use cures that were discovered by labs using federal dollars. 27. fly on federally regulated airplanes. 28. use any product that can trace its development back to NASA. 29. watch the weather provided by the National Weather Service. 30. listen to severe weather warnings from the National Weather Service. 31. listen to tsunami, hurricane, or earthquake alert systems. 32. apply for federal housing. 33. use the internet, which was developed by the military. 34. swim in clean rivers.35. allow your child to eat school lunches or breakfasts.36. ask for FEMA assistance when everything you own gets wiped out by disaster.37. ask the military to defend your life and home in the event of a foreign invasion.38. use your cell phone or home telephone.39. buy firearms that wouldn’t have been developed without the support of the US Government and military. That includes most of them.40. eat USDA inspected produce and meat.41. apply for government grants to start your own business.42. apply to win a government contract.43. buy any vehicle that has been inspected by government safety agencies.44. buy any product that is protected from poisons, toxins, etc…by the Consumer Protection Agency.45. save your money in a bank that is FDIC insured.46. use Veterans benefits or military health care.47. use the G.I. Bill to go to college.48. apply for unemployment benefits.49. use any electricity from companies regulated by the Department of Energy.50. live in homes that are built to code.51. run for public office. Politicians are paid with taxpayer dollars.52. ask for help from the FBI, S.W.A.T, the bomb squad, Homeland Security, State troopers, etc…53. apply for any government job whatsoever as all state and federal employees are paid with tax dollars.54. use public libraries.55. use the US Postal Service.56. visit the National Archives.57. visit Presidential Libraries.58. use airports that are secured by the federal government.59. apply for loans from any bank that is FDIC insured.60. ask the government to help you clean up after a tornado.61. ask the Department of Agriculture to provide a subsidy to help you run your farm.62. take walks in National Forests.63. ask for taxpayer dollars for your oil company.64. ask the federal government to bail your company out during recessions.65. seek medical care from places that use federal dollars.66. use Medicaid.67. use WIC.68. use electricity generated by Hoover Dam.69. use electricity or any service provided by the Tennessee Valley Authority.70. ask the Army Corps of Engineers to rebuild levees when they break.71. let the Coast Guard save you from drowning when your boat capsizes at sea.72. ask the government to help evacuate you when all hell breaks loose in the country you are in.73. visit historic landmarks.74. visit fisheries.75. expect to see animals that are federally protected because of the Endangered Species List.76. expect plows to clear roads of snow and ice so your kids can go to school and so you can get to work.77. hunt or camp on federal land.78. work anywhere that has a safe workplace because of government regulations.79. use public transportation.80. drink water from public water fountains.81. whine when someone copies your work and sells it as their own. Government enforces copyright laws.82. expect to own your home, car, or boat. Government organizes and keeps all titles.83. expect convicted felons to remain off the streets.84. eat in restaurants that are regulated by food quality and safety standards.85. seek help from the US Embassy if you need assistance in a foreign nation.86. apply for a passport to travel outside of the United States.87. apply for a patent when you invent something.88. adopt a child through your local, state, or federal governments.89. use elevators that have been inspected by federal or state safety regulators.90. use any resource that was discovered by the USGS.91. ask for energy assistance from the government.92. move to any other developed nation, because the taxes are much higher.93. go to a beach that is kept clean by the state.94. use money printed by the US Treasury.95. complain when millions more illegal immigrants cross the border because there are no more border patrol agents.96. attend a state university.97. see any doctor that is licensed through the state.98. use any water from municipal water systems.99. complain when diseases and viruses, that were once fought around the globe by the US government and CDC, reach your house.100. work for any company that is required to pay its workers a livable wage, provide them sick days, vacation days, and benefits.101. expect to be able to vote on election days. Government provides voting booths, election day officials, and voting machines which are paid for with taxes.102. ride trains. The railroad was built with government financial assistance.
@PROUD TO BE LIBERAL
Wall of text.
Useless.
Melodrama
Even your cohort Because will admit to the waste and abuse that you fail to acknowledge. Although he will hedge that with a “one mans waste is another mans policy.”
Cdev disgusted Because of Proud to be Liberal: go to Faux News for your limited attention span
Because,
What news sources do I utilize? You don’t know.
What new outlets do you recommend?
A well balanced bit of everything with a critical mind and healthy dose of slepticism !
Wow, Proud to be Liberal, that was a well thought out concise response to my points. Thankfully, while the military is funded by the federal government, it is not run by them. As I said, I have no time or patience for zealots. Your moniker labels you as just such an individual. If Obama took a dump in your front yard, you’d have it bronzed and placed on the mantle. However, if you ever see that apparently fictitious creature the “fired federal government worker” you let me know. He’ll probably be riding a unicorn.
PTBL,
The reason the debt has gone up while Obama is I office – and it has gone up more than any president in the history of this nation – is because he and his party of Lib/Dems spend worse than the proverbial drunken sailors. The have an addiction problem when it comes to spending money. The Lib/Dems and Obama say they are going to spend, spend, spend, spend and if the conservatives don’t agree to raise taxes to pay for it then the resulting debt is the fault of the conservatives. PTBL, it’s going to stop. We are going to have big blowups on budgets and debt ceilings and you can also expect more shutdowns. The Obamacare web site fiasco? That is what happens when you couple inept government workers with outsourcing stuff to foreign countries. I thought you were against outsourcing to offshore companies. If you are then you ought to have a word with Mr. Obama and his government who seems to love it. Once again the needy get screwed by the Lib/Dems.
Insurance companies’ profits increased from $2.5 billion to $12.5 billion from 2001 to 2008. Your health insurance premiums increased by 150 percent during that time while insurance companies canceled millions of policies of desperately sick or injured patients in order to increase profits. They used these profits to buy the Greedy Obstructing Plutocrats/Tea Party of the 1% (BKA the Hypocritical Party of No) to make you think that Obamacare will increase rates. Fox news then sold this lie to the poor red voters so that they would vote against their own best interests.
Do you think Bush is a lib or the contract with America crowd that went along? Both parties are to blame!
Both parties are to blame although there only seems on group concerned about the debt. Obama acts like it is no big deal (now) and we can just keep happily going deeper in debt and there are no consequences.
Yes both parties are to blame….at least Obama would pay the debt instead of letting us default!
Yes, the primary reason Clinton won his first term and Pelosi became speaker was because many in the GOP felt sold out by their party. They sat out and stopped supporting them to send them a message they were not to be taken for granted.
Well Mr. Clinton gave us the Monica Lewinski comedy and Ms. Pelosi has told us we have to pass ACA to find out what is in it. Those 2 things are prime examples of the Lib/Dem mindset.
Nice distraction Judy. Complain about his infidelity and your other issues with democrats as much as you like. When she was giving him her services the country was doing much better than we are now underneath the circus you seem to enjoy. And that is a glaring example of your mindset.
If the head of any company did what Clinton did we would be calling him a molester. Any Lewinsky would be the darling of every and all women’s groups. But even NOW couldn’t say anything bad about Clinton because he was their sugar daddy. And if you think Lewinsky was complicit want to talk about Paula Jones? I didn’t think so. Because the women’s groups regarded her as trailer trash so as not to offend their funding source.
Congress passes Bills, not the president. Sorry dude,
I’ve been a republican, my whole life, up until GW’s second term. Now I’m an independent.
You can twist numbers any way you want, but just look at what Bush spent: Afghanistan war, Iraq War, Fatherland Security and the TSA. He was not a fiscal conservative. He absolutely f*cked our country for generations to come. The GOP oughta get use to losing elections, because by not raising the debt limit they really look like idiots now. Obamacare start-up fiasco didn’t get any air time because everyone was focused on the debt ceiling. Stupid Republicans.
Keep in mind that the ‘Obamacare’ fiasco to which you refer would have been the top political news if the national Republican Party did not intentionally engineer the shutdown. For those that refuse to accept this reality, check out this article:
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/328413-dems-decry-midnight-rule-change
The ironic thing about this ‘Cantor’ rule is that if not passed the Senate bill would have been brought to the House floor, and all of the Dems plus enough Republicans would have voted for the ‘clean CR’ to fund the government. The lack of shutdown would have left the press free to explore the website difficulties you reference. The simple truth is that this new rule in effect applied the “Hastert Rule” to bills that normally would be immune to such a policy, and as a result allowed the shutdown to occur.
As an aside, look at the countless billions of dollars of economic output the government shutdown cost us. How anyone can argue that federal government initiatives do not create jobs in light of the economic cost of the shutdown I simply cannot understand…
After all is said and done, the President still didn’t get a clean CR.
Try comparing the economic cost of the shutdown to the economic of the deficit and Obamacare and you will see the shutdown was miniscule in comparison.
Of course, every economic downturn or bad news over the next several months will be blamed on the shutdown by the media and administration. The other factors will be ignored.
Yes but more than the clean CR offered the day before the shutdown!!!!
While I agree with Mr. Thatcher’s letter for most parts, please stop the BS that the private sector doesn’t run deficits. How many times have the airlines, automakers, banks and plenty of other companies run the till dry, declared bankruptcy and restarted….over and over again. This has been happening regardless of who holds the Presidency. Small businesses go out of business, medium/big business lives another day when they grease the palms of the court system. Next thing your going to say is that nobody in the private sector goofs off, sucks up to the boss, gets promoted because of it, etc. I’ve worked Military, Private, Public and now self-employed. All three of those groups have their slackers and skaters who don’t get fired/discharged/whatever and still manage to get their jobs accomplished. Now I have an ass for a boss, but he doesn’t let me goof off!
You helped make my point, Five Iron…if the private sector doesn’t balance budgets or take corrective action to eliminate deficits, they go out of business!…yes, the free enterprise system at work…and for some of you above, I’m not interested in which party created the debt (they both had a hand in it), I’m interested in our congress working to solve the problem; to eliminate the debt in a responsible manner over time…and I fear there is not a lot of time remaining before a real crisis is upon us…unlike the one fabricated by our politicians over the recent weeks!
The two party system is broken. Both R’s and D’s are to blame. Where do we go from here? It would seem to me that the regular GOP isn’t going to fix it, they’ll just grandstand. The Dems/Progressives surely won’t fix it by spending money as fast as they can print it. The Tea Party, which takes a lot of heat, are actually poised to be the ones to drag us out of this mess, as they understand economics and want to implement real businesslike policy, but there is no way that any Liberal would vote for one, much less a bunch of them. The Libertarian Party seems to have the best of both worlds – very liberal with personal issues such as sexuality, freedom of speech, etc., yet very fiscally conservative. But, the majority will never give an alternate party a fair shake, because most people want to feel like they are aligned with a “winner”. Tow-the-line 2 party politics are killing this country. I blame that system and everybody that votes straight down the ticket – DDDDDDDDDD or RRRRRRRRRR. Our country is and has been dying a slow economic death, so long as POTUS and Congress are all D and R, it will continue. Stop trying to pin blame on one side or the other, the whole f****** system is broken. Get some intestinal fortitude and vote for some independents or alternate party members next election.
The trouble with this rationalization is that the Republican Party is controlled and led by the Tea Party. They are now one and the same creature. I know that people want to distance themselves from the Greedy Obstructing Plutocrats/Tea Party of the 1% (BKA the Hypocritical Fiscal Terrorist Party of No) but you can’t. It is a FALSE EQUIVALENT: (when someone falsely equates an act or idea of one as being equally egregious to that of another without also considering the underlying differences which may make the comparison invalid or unfair) to say both are to blame when, clearly, it is ONLY the GOP/Tea Party that is to blame. It will be the more moderate Republicans, albeit without integrity to vote their conscience, which will pay the price of burning down the house for a lost ideological talking point. Whatever, the Democrats will carry the House in 2014.
PTBL has one solution and one solution only. He gets to spend more money and we get to pay for it.
Once, just one damn time, I would like PTBL to recommend a true cut to any program. Not a reduction in increase but a true cut. PTBL knows only one thing regarding spending. More, more. more, more, and more.
We should cut our standing Army since it is not Authorized by the Constiuttion. No for real though we should cut out tax exempt organizations from the IRS code. Cut ATF or DEA and consolidate them into the ATFDA.
Once, just one damn time, I wish ALEX would recommend one increase in revenue. He is perfectly fine with giving all of our money to the wealthiest Americans. Until our government cares more about the voters and less about billionaires’ tax breaks, the better we will be. Tax revenue have not increased: in 1945 the tax revenue was 30.2% of Gross Domestic Product (GDP), it is now fluctuates between 6 and 8 percent of GDP. From 2003 to 2011, corporate profits doubled to $2 trillion while corporate tax rate dropped by more than half. This is one of the reasons this country is in bad financial shape, the middle class is carrying the heavy load while the 1% tool around in their yachts while not paying their fair share. The economy prospers when the middle class has money to buy things. How about GE who made billions in profits and pay NO taxes? How about agribusinesses who get tax money for NOT planting crops or oil companies who get tax subsidies on top of BILLIONS in profits? Let’s be consistent.
Did you admonish your Dems not taking this up during the two years they could have passed anything they wanted (and did) and yet left all these breaks in for the wealthy. True conservatives would like to see all tax breaks ended, no corporate welfare as that interferes with a free economy.
Where was Pelosi, Reid and Obama when they had the opportunity to end all this? And by the way , as pointed out earlier, the President of GE was rewarded with a prestigious position by Obama right after his company filed with no tax payable. The rhetoric certainly does not match the actions.
PTBL,
What money is given to the wealthiest Americans? You do realize that the wealthiest Americans pay at the highest income tax rate, right?
As for your statement concerning GE, you may want to research that a bit more. In 2010, which is where the big controversy about GE is concerned, GE actually paid about 1 billion in federal, state, and local taxes; unlike the Warren statement, that GE paid no taxes.
Also, oil companies do not get subsidies. ‘the oil and gas industry receives the same kinds of tax treatments that every other manufacturing or extractive industry receives in the federal tax code. ‘ They do not get subsidies, they utilize the same tax code that every citizen and company in the U.S. utilizes.
The partisan ignorance on this site astounds me.
Proud to be Liberal, if you drop the tax rate then tax revenue will go up. Oh and the government collects tax dollars not tax rates. You are interested in feeling powerful and righteous by raising tax rates instead of having economic growth.
If you get your way and raise tax rates you will crush economic growth and the government will get less tax revenue.
Just how would lowering the tax rate of billionaires who do not contribute much to economic growth, unless you count hedge fund managers pay growth? Economic growth is caused by the middleclass spending money (you know those people whose jobs have been sent overseas by billionaires.)
The GOP/Tea Party that has transferred wealth from the 99% middle class to the 1% super wealthy. Since 1980 the economy rose 80% while wages for working Americans rose only 7% but CEO compensation has increased 600% (the average CEO of an S&P 500 company made $15.06 million in 2006 .) At the same time their tax rate fell by 55% since 1948. An example is Romney who paid only 13.1 % last year in taxes due to loopholes, off shore accounts, etc. (middle class rates are 25% to 28%). The result is that the more money transferred to the ultra-rich, the less money there is for the public: fewer roads, less education, less security, less health care, less police and fire protection, etc.
According to the New York Times story, GE reported U.S. profits of $5.1 billion in 2010 (and $14.2 billion worldwide). “Its American tax bill?” asked the Times. “None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.” The company accomplished this, the story said, due to “an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore.” GE chief spokesman Gary Sheffer told Pro Publica: “We expect to have a small U.S. income tax liability for 2010.” How much? The company wouldn’t say. Yes, GE pays payroll taxes, state taxes and local taxes.
Proud to be Liberal, jobs are created when people risk capital to start and expand businesses.
If the government over-taxes people there is a reduction in investment capital for business growth.
Romney paid $1.9 Million in taxes for 2011.
Proud,
“The GOP/Tea Party that has transferred wealth from the 99% middle class to the 1% super wealthy. ” – Don’t just blame the GOP. All politicians play a role in this.
“Since 1980 the economy rose 80% while wages for working Americans rose only 7% but CEO compensation has increased 600% (the average CEO of an S&P 500 company made $15.06 million in 2006 .)” – A private company has a right to pay their employees whatever rate they want, provided, of course, it is within the law. As such, paying a CEO at any rate is their right. As for the minimum wage, government should raise it. Contact your local congressman.
“At the same time their tax rate fell by 55% since 1948.” – I think everyone should pay the exact same rate.
“An example is Romney who paid only 13.1 % last year in taxes due to loopholes,” – Most of that was because of the capital gains, which, as you know, is money that was basically already taxed, so, in essence, the government is double dipping on Romney’s money. Oh, and did you know, your very own John Kerry paid a lower rate.
“off shore accounts, etc. (middle class rates are 25% to 28%). ” – Everyone has the same tax code.
“The result is that the more money transferred to the ultra-rich, the less money there is for the public: fewer roads, less education, less security, less health care, less police and fire protection, etc.” – We spend more now of those items then ever.
“According to the New York Times story, GE reported U.S. profits of $5.1 billion in 2010 (and $14.2 billion worldwide). “Its American tax bill?” asked the Times. “None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.” The company accomplished this, the story said, due to “an aggressive strategy that mixes fierce lobbying for tax breaks and innovative accounting that enables it to concentrate its profits offshore.” GE chief spokesman Gary Sheffer told Pro Publica: “We expect to have a small U.S. income tax liability for 2010.” How much? The company wouldn’t say. Yes, GE pays payroll taxes, state taxes and local taxes.” – They NY Times story is full of assumptions as they stated they do not actually know what GE paid, they were just estimating. GE has stated it paid about 1 billion; including state, federal and local.
Ignorance is bliss, eh PTBL?
Paul: “Don’t just blame the GOP. All politicians play a role in this.” No, it was the Reagan era that did that. “Since the arrival of President Ronald Wilson Reagan, it has become a matter of conservative orthodoxy that tax cuts for the rich will, inevitably, lead to economic prosperity…And yet, despite the deep concern on the part of conservatives, what followed the Bush I and Clinton tax increases was one of our greatest, most sustained periods of economic growth in the nation’s history…The Bush tax cuts of 2001—a prescription that fell right in line with conservative ideology. And when things did not pick up to the degree President Bush wanted, he accelerated the tax cuts in 2003, hoping for a much better result. As we all know—and as the chart makes painfully clear—things did not go as well as planned.”
“I think everyone should pay the exact same rate.” That is patently ridiculous. “1)Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means “eliminations of most of the Schedule A deductions such as mortgage interest payments and property taxes, a major disadvantage to the homeowners”. A potential catalyst for further deteriorating home prices. A major incentive for owning a home was the attractive tax benefit for deducting the mortgage and interest payments. 2)Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means, elimination most of the Schedule A deductions such as charitable contributions, employee business expenses and casualty losses. 3)Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means that some taxpayers would never have to pay taxes, thus lowering the overall tax revenues. 4)Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means that some if not all “high earning taxpayers would end up paying lower taxes”.5)Economist has argued that adopting the Flat Tax Structure would effectively mean having a Regressive Tax structure.”
“Most of that was because of the capital gains…” This is another giveaway from Bush. “On Jan. 1, 2008, the best of all possible tax rates — zero percent — took effect for investors in the 10 percent and 15 percent income tax brackets.” “Paul Krugman agreed with Art Laffer that the tax rate on capital gains should be the same as the tax rate on income. (In fact, Laffer went one step further than that, saying that even unrealized capital gains should be taxed at the same rate.)” “Warren Buffett: “I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off.”
“We spend more now of those items then (sic.) ever.” “Yesterday I posted an analysis that refuted the notion, common among conservatives, that the federal budget is out of control and growing a rapid rate. Instead, I demonstrated that government spending as a percentage of GDP maxed out in the early 1980s and has been declining slowly on average ever since. Today, I will address a variant of this argument that focuses on spending on social program, including Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security. My argument is simple: We don’t have a crisis of entitlements or social programs, we have, very narrowly, a health care crisis. Non health-related social spending — entitlements, Social Security, welfare, etc. — is actually declining as a percentage of GDP since 1980.” Bernard Finel
I guess you answered your own question: “Ignorance is bliss” eh Paul.
@Proud to be Liberal –
If you are going to use copyrighted work from authors and publications you must give them credit with proper citations.
Selectively using quotes out of context and weaving them together into an disjointed argument is disingenuous.
Lower tax rates do increase tax revenues and grow the economy.
Smaller government and less government intervention leaves the capital in the economy for investment in businesses and resulting in jobs.
P.S. Your walls of text are just foolish…try paragraphs.
Aww, Proud,
Way to continue to show your bias.
You went to the tax guru and copy and pasted the 5 negatives for a flat tax rate without even mentioning the 9 positives they listed. LOL!
As for your capital gains information, perhaps you should have continued reading. That 0% you were talking about only applies to single/married filing separately w/ under 34K taxable income, married filing jointly under 68K, or head of household 45.5K.
As for capital gains being taxed as income, that is the opinion of some, but not others, and, it is currently not the law. Contact your congressperson to have the law changed.
So, you agree with me that we spend more on those items now more than ever, right?
And yes, the budget is out of control, thanks to spending and to decreased revenue. We need to decrease spending and to increase revenue. However, those on your side of the aisle will never want to reduce spending and entitlements, while those on the other side never want to increase revenue.
So yes, Proud, as you have proven time and time again, your ignorance is bliss.
I see PUERILE PAUL the McSTALKER is back. “As for capital gains being taxed as income, that is the opinion of some, but not others, and, it is currently not the law.” The Taxpayer Relief Act of 1997 (Rep. bill) enacted August 5, 1997) reduced several federal taxes in the United States. Subject to certain phase-in rules, the top capital gains rate fell from 28% to 20%. The 15% bracket was lowered to 10%.”
See http://www.faireconomy.org/wealth_vs_work for an overview of how unfair this is.
I would expect to see cows fly before I see a Republican touch the income of their billionaire masters.
“So, you agree with me that we spend more on those items now more than ever, right?” Well in your world I guess spending less as a percentage of GDP since 1980 is more, but not in the real world.
All I want is: Universal health care plan for all, Strong unions and stronger workplace protections, A livable minimum wage, A humane immigration policy, Revenues from a fair tax structure, Marriage equality, A ban on carbon emissions and strong environment protection for the future, Extended family leave for accidents or pregnancies, Longer unemployment benefits and a strong safety net, More educational opportunities, Protection from predatory banks and businesses. I don’t want free healthcare, I want affordable healthcare, I don’t want money for nothing, I want the opportunity for a good job without American jobs shipped to China. I don’t expect every election to bring the result I want, I just want my vote to count and get disenfranchised. I don’t want businesses to be unprofitable, I just want them out of the regulatory and political process and not be counted as a person. I don’t want the wealthiest Americans to pay for everything – I want them to pay their fair share.
I see PANSY PUNKY PROUD the McTroll is still here.
So, you agree with me that it is the law? Good.
As for it being fair or unfair, it is all a matter of opinion.
I’m not a Republican.
“Well in your world I guess spending less as a percentage of GDP since 1980 is more, but not in the real world.” – So, your answer is, Yes, Mister Paul, more money is being spent. You are correct, as always. – I am glad we agree.
“All I want is:”
“Universal health care plan for all,” – Too bad the plan the Dems put forth is not this.
“Strong unions and stronger workplace protections,” – The original intent of unions was to protect the works. Nowadays, OSHA and other things have been installed to protect the workers. Unions only serve the union bosses; and yet you complain about the republicans and their masters, do not the democrats and their union bosses do the same thing?
“A livable minimum wage,” – Agree.
“A humane immigration policy,” – Agree.
“Revenues from a fair tax structure,” – What is fair, really? A flat tax, where everyone single person pays the exact same percent is fair.
“Marriage equality,” – Agree.
“A ban on carbon emissions and strong environment protection for the future,” – Somewhat, but not possible currently. A reduction first.
“Extended family leave for accidents or pregnancies,” – How would this work? Would the employer pay for this? I have no problem with allowing people to take as much time off as needed for a pregnancy or an accident, and to be paid if the employee has saved time; however, if they don’t have time saved up, why would an employer pay for it?
“Longer unemployment benefits and a strong safety net,” -Disagree. No unemployment at all. However, the government should have jobs for anyone that wants to work (be they ditch digging or whatever).
“More educational opportunities,” – everyone has the opportunity to go to school.
“Protection from predatory banks and businesses.” – If you don’t want to bank, don’t bank. That is protection.
“I don’t want free healthcare, I want affordable healthcare,” – Mine went up with the ACA, thanks Dems.
I don’t want money for nothing, I want the opportunity for a good job without American jobs shipped to China.” – A private company has a right to employ who they want. The government should maybe make it fruitful for a company to stay in the US an hire US workers.
“I don’t expect every election to bring the result I want, I just want my vote to count and get disenfranchised.” – Kind of like how the Republicans are in MD? And well, any third party supporter just about anywhere?
“I don’t want businesses to be unprofitable, I just want them out of the regulatory and political process and not be counted as a person.” – A private company that lives within the rules of law should be able to be as profitable as they can. If the American people have a problem, there is a means to stop them from being so profitable…don’t buy their product.
“I don’t want the wealthiest Americans to pay for everything – I want them to pay their fair share.” – The top 10% already pay over 70 percent of the taxes. The top 50% pay nearly all of the taxes. What more do you want?
Obama is currently giving billions every month to those billionaires you complain about, yet not a mention.
PAUL: “I’m not a Republican.” Well, you’re not a Democrat. The GOP is controlled by the tea baggers. Therefore, all parties are either Democrat or Republican/Tea Party.
“So, your answer is, Yes, Mister Paul, more money is being spent. You are correct, as always. – I am glad we agree.” So my answer is that you need to understand basic math.
“What is fair, really? A flat tax, where everyone single person pays the exact same percent is fair.” Only fair for the wealthiest, are you a billionaire Paul? I will not repeat what I said earlier about the Flat Tax since it seem to have gone over your head.
“How would this work?” The way it would work is one would not get fired for an accident or for having a baby.
“the government should have jobs for anyone that wants to work” Just like what FDR did or Obama would like to do in order to upgrade our failing infrastructure. Contact your Congressman and let him know you’d like him to do something other than for billionaires.
“everyone has the opportunity to go to school.” But what schools? Ones that spend $19K for each student or ones that spend $6.2K per student.
“If you don’t want to bank, don’t bank. That is protection.” Now this really points out our biggest difference. I believe the government’s role is to protect us from greedy, predatory corporations while you seem perfectly content to be poisoned, robbed or over charged by them. Your way is just madness.
“Kind of like how the Republicans are in MD?” No, you cannot show me one disenfranchised vote in Maryland, while there are ample examples of that in other states. You must remember that the majority votes elects our representatives and the majority of the voters in Md. Are Democrats. If you don’t like that you could always move to Mississippi or some other Red state.
“Mine went up with the ACA, thanks Dems.” You’re welcome, but now you won’t have to pay for insurance freeloaders which, I guess, you were agreeable to do in the past.
“A private company that lives within the rules of law should be able to be as profitable as they can.” Even if this profitability come with the price of pollution and dangerous products. I was also referring to “Citizens United” which has taken our political system one step closer to Fascism.
“The top 10% already pay over 70 percent of the taxes. The top 50% pay nearly all of the taxes. What more do you want?” I want them to pay a FAIR SHARE. I’ve talked about this at length and you have constantly failed to grasp this simple concept.
Proud to be Liberal, how about we nationalize all the banks, reduce all billionaires to wealth of no more than $5 Million, tax at a rate of 85% every dollar on income over $250,000 and CEO salaries cannot be greater than 10 times their lowest paid worker’s salary?
Cdev: How about you post something intelligent.
Proud to be Liberal, you wanted progressive fairness, and so what do you think?
Well, PTBL, when you said Paul had to be either a Republican or a Democrat you forgot that he theoretically could be a Socialist like you.
Jaguar: Allow me to educate you. “People often confuse “socialism” with the concept of “communism.” While the two ideologies share much in common … the primary difference between the two is that “socialism” applies to economic systems, whereas “communism” applies to both economic and political systems… communists directly oppose the concept of capitalism, an economic system in which production is controlled by private interests. Socialists, on the other hand, believe socialism can exist within a capitalist society.”
However, you may have something there. Fascism “…supports the heavy industrial sector to the detriment of lighter industrial sectors and the dismantling of trade unions and worker’s ability to elect their own representatives.” “Fascist dictatorships were borne to power by big business, and they served the interests of big business with remarkable ferocity… The exaltation of big business at the expense of the citizen was a central characteristic of government policy in Germany and Italy (before WWII).” An example today would be Dick Cheney’s Halliburton that made 39 billion dollars from the Iraq war (kept off the books) with many no-bid contracts and what the GOP/Tea Party did with Citizens United v. the Federal Election Commission.
Proud,
You are such a hack. Next time you quote something, use the entire quote.
From about dot com,
“People often confuse “socialism” with the concept of “communism.” While the two ideologies share much in common — in in fact communism encompasses socialism — the primary difference between the two is that “socialism” applies to economic systems, whereas “communism” applies to both economic and political systems. ”
You notice how you left out the line that says ‘in fact communism encompasses socialism’. Way to be such a partisan biased person, Proud. Way to go!
So then, PTBL, it sounds like you are actually a communist looking down your bigoted nose at the rest of us. And a racist as well. Why are you so against employment opportunities for young black men?
I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat, nor a socialist.
I am a Libertarian.
Awesome, good luck driving on your dirt roads and purifying your own water once the anarchists take over.
Proud to be Liberal, Fascism is to the left of the political spectrum right next to Socialism and Communism.
Paul: That does not make Socialism the same thing as Communism. That is just sloppy thinking, but that is your stock in trade.
Proud,
“Well, you’re not a Democrat. The GOP is controlled by the tea baggers. Therefore, all parties are either Democrat or Republican/Tea Party.” – I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat.
“So my answer is that you need to understand basic math.” – Basic math shows more money is now spent. So, you agree with me. So, it is you that fails to understand any basic math.
“Only fair for the wealthiest, are you a billionaire Paul? I will not repeat what I said earlier about the Flat Tax since it seem to have gone over your head.” – It is fair for all. You don’t want them to pay their fair share, you want them to pay your share. You want to live off of someone else. And what you said earlier I have already responded to, showing how much of a biased individual you really are.
“The way it would work is one would not get fired for an accident or for having a baby.” – That doesn’t answer the question, but, I would expect nothing more from you.
“Just like what FDR did or Obama would like to do in order to upgrade our failing infrastructure. Contact your Congressman and let him know you’d like him to do something other than for billionaires.” – My congressperson, and all of them, actually do things for everyone, especially those that are not billionaires.
“But what schools? Ones that spend $19K for each student or ones that spend $6.2K per student.” – So, you agree that there is opportunity. You just think the amount spent per every student needs to be exactly the same.
“Now this really points out our biggest difference. I believe the government’s role is to protect us from greedy, predatory corporations while you seem perfectly content to be poisoned, robbed or over charged by them. Your way is just madness.” – Blame the democrats, they are the ones that made it so people that could not afford houses were not only given, but required, to get loans for homes they could not afford. However, that is irrelevant, as it should be the role of the individual to take personal responsibility and not get into financial hot water. The government is not here to wipe your butt.
“No, you cannot show me one disenfranchised vote in Maryland, while there are ample examples of that in other states. You must remember that the majority votes elects our representatives and the majority of the voters in Md. Are Democrats. If you don’t like that you could always move to Mississippi or some other Red state.” – You are so biased it is disgusting. And actually, there will always be disenfranchised voters, even here in Maryland, such as convicted felons.
“You’re welcome, but now you won’t have to pay for insurance freeloaders which, I guess, you were agreeable to do in the past.” – I still will have to pay for those that can’t, just now I pay more.
“Even if this profitability come with the price of pollution and dangerous products. I was also referring to “Citizens United” which has taken our political system one step closer to Fascism.” – There are laws against pollution and dangerous products. As for citizen united, it does not come close to fascism.
“I want them to pay a FAIR SHARE. I’ve talked about this at length and you have constantly failed to grasp this simple concept.” – You have never said what specifically the concept is. What is their fair share? All of it? Everyone paying the same amount or the same rate is fair. Anything else is unfair.
PTBL is right!
We need equality in society. It’s only fair for those who have more to share with those that have nothing with government making this re-allocation possible. The richest country in the history of the planet should not have any poor or hungry people.
What is equality in society? Does that mean everyone has the same?
We must have the greater good served by those who can afford to give to those who have less.
Obviously you did not want to answer the questions. You’re just another jerk who talks out of their backside.
Truth of the matter is we already have an equal society. We have equal opportunity of becoming self sufficient.
Barbara: So you think we have equal opportunity do you? Typical smug GOP/Tea Party overgeneralization rationalization. However, as I found in a NY Times piece: “Today, the United States has less equality of opportunity than almost any other advanced industrial country. Study after study has exposed the myth that America is a land of opportunity…According to research from the Brookings Institution, only 58 percent of Americans born into the bottom fifth of income earners move out of that category, and just 6 percent born into the bottom fifth move into the top. Economic mobility in the United States is lower than in most of Europe and lower than in all of Scandinavia…Latinos and African-Americans still get paid less than whites, and women still get paid less than men…there is still a glass ceiling: women are sorely underrepresented in top corporate positions and constitute a minuscule fraction of C.E.O.’s….”
“Probably the most important reason for lack of equality of opportunity is education: both its quantity and quality…(the disparity of per student expenditure ranges from $19K for each student to $6.2K per student) “Of course, there are other forces at play, some of which start even before birth. Children in affluent families get more exposure to reading and less exposure to environmental hazards. Their families can afford enriching experiences like music lessons and summer camp. They get better nutrition and health care, which enhance their learning, directly and indirectly.”
So stop talking out our YOUR backside and wake up.
So many studies have been done and the irrefutable primary commonality for predicting poverty is lack of an intact two parent family. Since liberals and the government began waging a war on traditional families the status of the black family has tanked. Show me a poor kid with little chance at a future and I’ll show you a single mom with little control over her kids, limited parenting skills (often 14 year old moms) and drug or alcohol problems – 60+% of black kids are born outside of marriage. It’s been proven pretty succinctly in multiple studies that the amount of expenditure in education has little correlation to the ability to learn. Somebody needs to pull the plug on the Obamaphones. You keep giving people free stuff for subsistance living and they’ll never incent to anything beyond that. Patrick Moynahan predicted all of this mess back in the 60s.
Money Tree: Your over generalizations and Fox talking points (“…Since liberals and the government began waging a war on traditional families…”) almost hide an important fact. You are correct that there are far too many examples of “…single mom with little control over her kids, limited parenting skills (often 14 year old moms) and drug or alcohol problems – 60+% of black kids are born outside of marriage….” However, my approach is to try to change that behavior while the GOP/Tea Party just wants to throw them under the bus and forget about them. You say they bring it upon themselves with destructive behavior and, while there is much to that, they are still human and we, who are more fortunate due to a traditional family and higher education, must make a difference in this world.
The reasons I oppose the GOP/Tea Party are: 1) On one hand they are continually whining about too much governmental control of our lives while on the other they pass the most intrusive laws possible. 2) On one hand they go to draconian lengths to protect zygotes but complain about children’s needs for health care and education and go to any length to deny these services. 3) On one hand they clamor for freedom OF religion but deny freedom FROM religion to all who are not in their exclusive little club. 4) On one hand they are all about profits on the backs of illegal aliens and give the businesses who hire them a pass but persecute these same aliens relentlessly. 5) On one hand they are all about people taking responsibility for themselves while enabling freeloaders on those who have healthcare insurance. Don’t they understand that those without healthcare are carried by us who do have it? 6) They have attacked women, the elderly, police, teachers unions, auto workers, postal workers, minorities, immigrants, the poor, the unemployed, Medicare and Social Security. 7) The only ones they have not attacked are Wall Street, big oil and coal, billionaires and the top 1%. 8) They are spreading their message of hate, racism, intolerance and incivility trying to activate their base and make sure they come out and vote while at the same time trying to suppress voting rights in many states. 9) They are mean spirited hypocrites. 10) And as they have continually shown us, they are blind to everything but what they see on Fox.
Proud,
“According to research from the Brookings Institution, only 58 percent of Americans born into the bottom fifth of income earners move out of that category, and just 6 percent born into the bottom fifth move into the top. Economic mobility in the United States is lower than in most of Europe and lower than in all of Scandinavia” – You do realize that is a logical fallacy, right? Simply because a certain percentage did not move out does not mean there is not an opportunity to move out. There are other possible reasons why they did not move out, one being they did not do anything to move out. Perhaps a little personal responsibility would go a long way to helping the people move out. However, as we know, you are not for personal responsibility, you want the government to lift everyone out and damn anyone to hell that either tries to do it themselves or complains about the government doing it.
See the McStalker cannot, or will not, provide any facts or figures to prove a flat tax is fair. WHY is it fair and HOW would it be fair to all tax payers? I gave reasons to show why it wouldn’t. You just say it would be but cannot show us how it would be. Is this beyond your range of talking points Paul?
Nothing personal Proud – but what in the world does any of that have to do with being locked into poverty or reasons for same?
Proud the Liberal Idiot McTroll,
I have provided more facts than you have. As I stated, equality…I know the word has more than one syllable Proud, so you may have trouble comprehending it, but try. You gave no facts, Proud, you simply cited the opinions (and only the negative opinions, while intentionally not posting the rest of their overview) from Tax Guru. Where are your facts, Proud? You have none, only opinions. My fact is that if everyone pays the same rate, it is equality. I pay X, you pay X, Joe Billionaire pays X, Mary Middle Class pays X, we all pay X. That is fair.
Is this beyond your range of comprehension, Proud? Equality? Isn’t that what you want? Er, don’t answer, we know you don’t want equality.
The fact that 58 percent of Americans born into the bottom fifth of income earners move out is proof that equal “opportunity” to become “self sufficient” does in fact exist in America. Additionally, 6 percent of those in the bottom fifth move into the top fifth of income earners.
What percentage of people who were born into the top four fifths of income earners don’t become self sufficient? Becoming self sufficient is a choice for most folks. There are those, who for lack of mental/physical ability, may never become self sufficient, but for the most part it is a choice for most people.
@Paul Mc –
Proud to be Liberal doesn’t want equal tax rates.
He wants equal outcomes.
It is patently unfair for you to have $1 Million in income and for example pay $200,000 in federal taxes while your neighbor has $50,000 in income and pays $10,000.
If we could have a taxation scheme where all wealth were distributed evenly across the population that would be fair to Proud to be Liberal.
And in that example with your $1 Million income you would pay $900,000 in taxes and the your neighbor would get $50,000 paid to him to raise his income to equal your after-tax income.
Another typical response from Paul the McStalker. He never furnishes reasons for his fantastical statements, we are to believe them simple because they came out of his enlightened mouth. If you think a flat tax is so fair, show us WHY it is. If fact, why not show us proof that you have the slightest idea of which you rant?
Another typical response from Proud the Liberal Idiot McTroll.
He does not have the ability to comprehend an answer so he attempts to dismiss it.
A flat tax at is fair because everyone pays the same rate. Why do you not have the ability to comprehend that? The same rate is equal for everyone. Equality…you know what that is, right?
From Forbes, “By eliminating loopholes and broadening the tax base, a flat tax would lead to greater revenue–as well as be truly fair.”
Paul you do realize that the lack of opportunities would limit mobility more? Can’t you understand that being locked in a prison of poverty could sap one’s motivation? Obviously not as all people are the same to you and you are blind to circumstances. You have yours, and I’m certain you earned it, but you can’t seem to garner any compassion. Libertarians are the worse kind of selfish hypocrites. They are perfectly will to make use of the benefits of government but deny the right of a government to function. All they seem to care about is taxes forgetting, or ignoring, what taxes bring us. They are opposed to government regulations but are perfectly will to eat wholesome food, drive safe cars or not have their life savings disappear into the maw of big business greed. As Metcalf stated, “What I sneer at is the growing popularity of this Randroid libertarianism, which I see as intellectually shallow and definitely based in adolescent selfishness.” What I say to them is: Too much government? Too many regulations? Too many taxes? Move to Somalia! It is a paradise for libertarians who don’t need government.
Since you do not have the ability to remember what I posted, allow me to repeat myself as you need constant help: Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means eliminations of most of the Schedule A deductions such as mortgage interest payments and property taxes, a major disadvantage to the homeowners. A potential catalyst for further deteriorating home prices. A major incentive for owning a home was the attractive tax benefit for deducting the mortgage and interest payments. 2) Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means, elimination most of the Schedule A deductions such as charitable contributions, employee business expenses and casualty losses. 3) Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means that some taxpayers would never have to pay taxes, thus lowering the overall tax revenues. 4) Adopting the Flat Tax Structure means that some if not all ‘high earning taxpayers would end up paying lower taxes’.5) Economist has argued that adopting the Flat Tax Structure would effectively mean having a Regressive Tax structure.” Now refute these points with other than “it would be fair.”
Proud,
Here, from the same site you got your disadvantages:
“What are the advantages of replacing the existing tax system and adopting the flat tax?
1)Adopting the Flat Tax Structure would significantly reduce the marginal and effective tax rate for most US Taxpayers.
2)It has been argued that adopting the Flat Tax “would also eliminate double taxation”.
3)It is a proven fact that adopting the Flat Tax Rate structure would definitely simplify tax preparation process saving US Taxpayers Billions of Dollars in Tax Preparation Fees. Both the Corporate and individuals would be able to file their returns on a simplified form.
4)Adopting the Flat Tax Rate structure has a tendency to encourage savings. This in turn would lead to “more capital formation and thereby stimulate the economy”.
5)A Tax Simplification Bill accompanying the Flat Tax may enable all “Businesses to expense all their capital investments”, and avoid the complex depreciation rules currently in place. Deducting all business expenses will spur domestic investment and increase growth in the US, leading to greater employment and job growth.
6)It is a progressive tax with a flat rate on taxable income, however, the more an individual saves or invests, the lower his taxable income becomes, thus lowering his total tax payment.
7)Experts have said that adopting the Flat Tax Rate structure “would mean that nearly half of all households would pay no federal income tax under this plan”.
8)Adopting the Flat Tax Rate structure is a “simple tax that levies the same tax rate to all Americans regardless of taxable income, while reducing or eliminating income taxes for low income families”.
9)It would significantly reduce IRS audits for both individual and businesses.”
Also, Proud, since you are too stupid to comprehend things, let me try to explain it to you again. Paying the same rate means equality. Do you not want equality, Proud?
Also Proud,
Fairness remains a lauded feature of the flat tax. For example, a taxpayer who makes $5,000 pays the same tax rate as someone who earns $500,000. The taxpayer making $500,000 pays more taxes simply because the income is greater, however, this taxpayers pays an equal percent to the $5,000 taxpayer. This tax system does not discriminate based on income level; everyone pays the same percent of income.
The New Flat Tax, as outlined in Heritage’s ‘Saving the American Dream’ plan, would replace today’s convoluted tax system with a simple, neutral, and transparent tax system that would allow America to achieve its full economic potential. And it encourages growth and job creation.
An immediate goal should be to enact a low, single-rate flat tax to greatly improve the tax system. Unfortunately, we have to take it one step at a time. Cato Institute scholar Dan Mitchell has mentioned a proposal that says “in the short run, we rally behind a flat tax. Once that simple and fair system is implemented, we then seek a constitutional amendment that would prohibit an income tax.” We all may have different immediate and ultimate objectives. But we shouldn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the better.
According to a study by the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA), “The Economic Effects of a Flat Tax,” industrial investment is not structured to favor the most competitive and attractive industries under a progressive tax. Due to subsidies and unequal treatment of diverse industries, it can be more profitable to invest in low-growth or low-profit sectors. The study proposes that a flat tax redistributes investment away from highly subsidized industries, such as farming, towards more competitive industries, such as manufacturing. This can have the effect of increasing production in nearly every industry.
A flat tax would seem to lower tax revenues for the government under a superficial analysis, but deeper look reveals several positive possibilities.
The economy-wide increase in production and consumption, as well as the increased productivity of individuals, can lead to higher economy-wide income, resulting in an increase in the overall tax-base. Tax evasion and avoidance would become less profitable, decreasing the number of people who do not pay their taxes, and it would no longer be possible to manipulate the deductions in the tax code to completely negate the tax burden of high-income individuals.
Proud,
“Paul you do realize that the lack of opportunities would limit mobility more?” – There is not a lack of opportunity. There is an equal opportunity for all. There is a lack of personal responsibility and accountability which deters certain individuals from achieving things.
“Can’t you understand that being locked in a prison of poverty could sap one’s motivation?” – No. Not at all. Anyone can overcome adversity if they work hard to do so.
“Obviously not as all people are the same to you and you are blind to circumstances.” – Yes, everyone is not the same as me. I worked hard to get out of being poor.
“You have yours, and I’m certain you earned it, but you can’t seem to garner any compassion.” – I have compassion and I fully believe in helping those that are attempting to help themselves. I do not believe in assisting those (save for the children) that do not help themselves. I have no compassion what so ever for those that choose not to help themselves. I believe the government should assist those that are trying to make themselves better.
“Libertarians are the worse kind of selfish hypocrites. They are perfectly will to make use of the benefits of government but deny the right of a government to function.” – That is a bunch of bull. I pay my taxes and get what I should out of it, roads, schools, and other such things and only the government really should be handling. I don’t think my taxes should go to Johnny Iamtoolazytowork.
“All they seem to care about is taxes forgetting, or ignoring, what taxes bring us.” – Not at all. I, like most people, let alone Libertarians, know that taxes are important and serve a function. I simply want to limit what the taxes are spent on.
“They are opposed to government regulations but are perfectly will to eat wholesome food, drive safe cars or not have their life savings disappear into the maw of big business greed.” – Wrong again. Libertarians and everyone else knows there is a need for some government regulations; however, there is not a need for all of the regulations.
“As Metcalf stated, “What I sneer at is the growing popularity of this Randroid libertarianism, which I see as intellectually shallow and definitely based in adolescent selfishness.” What I say to them is: Too much government? Too many regulations? Too many taxes? Move to Somalia! It is a paradise for libertarians who don’t need government.” – You, as typical, failed to copy the entire statement. Lets add what he said right before that, “I identify strongly as a civil libertarian and support most of those causes that Friedersdorf uses as examples of unselfish libertarianism. I have ave had many a stimulating (if ultimately frustrating) conversation with thoughtful libertarians on economics. Although I think they have a utopian view of how humans organize and behave I have a grudging admiration for their consistency, however much I disagree with it.”
in order to do this, the IRS would need to report the previous years tax receipts for the prior year and an accurate estimate of what will likely be collected in the coming year BEFORE any appropriations bills are developed.
PTBL, When you mention those jobs sent overseas do you mean the ones that the Obama administration sent to get the health care web site developed? You know, the web site that doesn’t work. And now we are finding out that the very most important part of the development – final testing and release – was handled by our own government workers. So the Obama administration knew it wasn’t ready and decided to turn it on anyway. That’s the best picture I can paint. Either that or they were so technically inept they didn’t know it wasn’t ready in which case why were they within 100 miles of it? Either way it’s a huge screw up. Even the Lib/Dems can’t find anything good to say about it. But Mr. Obama gets a pass. I guess the guy you refer to as the smart black man isn’t quite as smart as you thought.
Yes, I still want him to succeed because the black youth of this country need to see it but he just keeps shooting himself in the foot. Or the fools and liars that work for him do it for him. Geithner, Holder, Sebelius. Who is next?
Why couldn’t the libertarian pass algebra?
He refused to solve inequalities.
I see PAUL is back to his usual tactics of calling names to make himself feel more of a man. However, I reject his rationalization for an UNFAIR flat tax. Shall we let it up the voters to decide? Oh right, they already did that. Sorry Paul, I guess you’ll have to move to Somalia the dream land of no government.
Proud, you forgot about your usual tactic of name calling when you stated, “PUERILE PAUL the McSTALKER”, which you used to make yourself look far more intelligent than you really are, or perhaps more of a man than you really are, or maybe more of a whatever than you really are?
Of course you reject my rationalization for a flat tax as it requires intelligence to use rational thought.
Yes, the voters decided, that is why we have a Democrat as president and a Congress that is split between the Democrats controlling the Senate and the Republicans controlling the House. So, maybe you should just move to Somalia, or, heck, anywhere really. And, Proud, your ignorance is showing. Libertarians do not want no government. They want a smaller government. You really are dumb as a brick, aren’t you.
PAUL: Does your ass ever get jealous of the crap that comes out of your month? I guess YOU are best able to decide what part of the government we should eliminate?
Proud,
“Does your ass ever get jealous of the crap that comes out of your month?” – Your mouth constantly spews shit, so you would be the one that knows.
“I guess YOU are best able to decide what part of the government we should eliminate?” – Better than you or anyone that you would want to handle it.
Proud to be Liberal, it’s clear that you want wealth redistribution and shared misery. You are selfish and jealous of successful people and you believe that in order to be successful someone else has to lose or be cheated.
Your solutions are to create more government jobs, transfer payments to people who don’t work and obscene confiscatory taxation rates.
isn’t the point of shared wealth the opposite of selfishness. i’m not taking sides here but you’re pretty off.
also you forget that America still, under the “great socialist kenyan nazi communist muslim” barack obama continues to have one of the lowest overall tax rates out of western nations. simple google search would find that one out for you.
but you know, keep on keepin’ on.
PAUL: This is what I think about your “Cato Institute scholar Dan Mitchell.” “The ‘center for freedom and prosperity’ (CFP) is one of those so-called ‘think tanks’ that spews out materials on a regular basis to push the ideology of low taxes for the rich, low taxes on business, and low government services for the vulnerable. It is closely associated with the Cato Institute, a radical libertarian ‘think tank’, and generally uses Cato Institute’s Dan Mitchell as the personalized face of its video productions. Generally, these videos are a pastiche of charts and ‘facts’ that have little substance but lots of show.” The Cato Institute is nothing more than propaganda goons for the Koch brothers who are only interested in increasing their wealth.
Heritage’s ‘Saving the American Dream’ is another bog of greed designed for the rich: “it completely re-writes Social Security. It expands the goal of the system, and pays for the changes largely through benefit cuts… this plan transforms Social Security from an insurance offering to garden variety welfare… Today Social Security provides income to augment a retiree’s personal savings. Under the Heritage plan, Social Security would become a primary source of income and offer complete protection from poverty. We oppose this plan because it will take money from people in poverty, and give it to people who are well above poverty. If we dislike this plan, it is because it could be the most extreme version of means testing in the market. “Limiting Social Security to Those Who Actually Need It”. The Heritage Foundation has jumped the integrity shark with this piece. It is a collection of bad ideas covered with a thick veneer of misleading advertising. They advertise ‘real insurance’ but then describe a welfare system. Retirees do not want welfare. This plan also talks about taking Social Security back to its original intent, and yet moves the system in a direction completely inconsistent with the founding principles. This plan includes a new type of savings account for which you are automatically enrolled unless you opt-out. As written, contributions appear to be in addition to standard payroll taxes. If so, the plan would increase payroll taxes from 15.3% to 21.3%.”
This is what a proponent says about the National Center for Policy Analysis (NCPA), “The Economic Effects of a Flat Tax,”…flat tax system fundamentally differs from the progressive tax system of the United States. Tax rates are applied evenly across all income classes rather than adjusted based on income. Higher-income households will realize significant income benefits under a flat tax system. Besides the obvious effect of lowering base tax rates, which many people in the highest income bracket consider unreasonable under a progressive tax system, a flat tax does not impose itself on interest revenue, dividends, capital gains or inheritance.”
So Paul you must be one of those billionaires too as all the advantages of a flat tax are for the wealthy.
And you started the name calling and, I admit, that I attack when I am. (“The partisan ignorance on this site astounds me… Ignorance is bliss, eh PTBL?…You are such a hack.” Etc.) So don’t play the poor victim with me.
“This is what I think about your “Cato Institute scholar Dan Mitchell.” He probably thinks less of you, Proud, but hey, to each his own.
“The Cato Institute is nothing more than propaganda goons for the Koch brothers who are only interested in increasing their wealth.” – And maybe they think you are nothing more than a liberal hack more interested in hearing themselves speak while saying nothing that is really very intelligent at all?
“So Paul you must be one of those billionaires too as all the advantages of a flat tax are for the wealthy.” – Not at all. I simply believe in fairness and equality.
“And you started the name calling and, I admit, that I attack when I am. (“The partisan ignorance on this site astounds me… Ignorance is bliss, eh PTBL?…You are such a hack.” Etc.) So don’t play the poor victim with me.” – I never played the victim, Proud. I never said you were ignorant, I merely said the partisan ignorance astounds me. Perhaps that statement cut too close to home for you, eh? Also, I never said you were ignorant when I said, “Ignorance is bliss”. Again, maybe you just knew you were ignorant and therefore took it too mean I was talking about you. So, in actuality, you did call me a name first, Proudy…So, stop playing the little victim that try so hard to be all the time. Aww, poor me, poor wittle Proud, I want the government to take care of me as I don’t want to do anything myself.
To My Obama Loving Friends, I know this is a repeat, but could one of you explain this to me?
The Quote of the Decade:
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that, ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”
~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006
Well, Lord knows that I am a person who loves Obama and I am happy to explain to you his comments.
When he was a Senator, he meant every word he uttered. If you pay attention to his words, they are as true today as when he uttered them. But, Monster, he is now the President, and as President you must EVOLVE, and our President, God Bless Him, has EVOLVED.
By the way Monster, in the very near future you will begin to hear things from me that the media will be reporting (they love me) and some of those things I will be saying are intended to convince you that I will be the second coming of President Obama. I, like him, deserve to be your President because we think alike. Both of us are never responsible for anything, someone other than us is at fault, and if all else fails then What Difference Does It Make!
Please elect me. I promise you I will EVOLVE.
You will be re-educated, You will obey, you will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
Yes. Yes. I feel myself EVOLVING already.
Congress won’t do the hard work to cut spending and raise revenues. Only Congress has the Constitutional mandate to do so. Not the President and not the Supreme Court.
Because, Congress won’t do the hard work is an excuse. The Democrats voted for his health plan without knowing what was in it. The Speaker of the House Pelosi said we would all find out together what the bill contained. It was a failure and the sheep went along with it.
You actually acknowledge what I said. Congress didn’t do the hard work. They failed to represent, they failed to do their jobs. Just like they fail constantly to raise taxes or cut spending which is their responsibility. Do I really need to repeat that or is your comprehension running through a filter of “I hate the President?”
Because, None so blind as those who won’t see. The Health Care crap is Obama’s, which, as I am sure you know, the President got his henchmen to rush through Congress. The liberals couldn’t wait to pass it, even if they hadn’t time to find out its implications. The President initiates legislation and uses his buddies in Congress to see it passes. It is still the President’s bill and there was time to implement it without computer glitches. Whether you want to admit or not, this law will cost us money we cannot afford. When you look at what he said as a Senator, why didn’t Obama do the hard work?
Because, and yes, I do not like Obama. He has made mistakes that Bush would have been crucified in the press for, and gets away with it. Why do people like Fox News, because it tells the other side of Obama. If you haven’t read about Nazi Germany, do so. It will scare you and you will see similarities to what is happening in our country. I am not calling Obama Hitler, but I am saying the Reichstagg and Congress are similar, the one-sided reporting by our media is similar to Goebbels doctrines and I can go on.
Cute little Because says “raise revenues” and I’m sure he’d be okay with lowering taxes in order to “raise revenues”.
I’d be happy if you paid more taxes.
Because, is that because you believe government is instrument used to inflict misery?
No, because I think you don’t pay enough for the services you feel you are entitled to.
Because, you would be happy if anyone and everyone but you paid more taxes. Deliriously happy. On the other hand I would be happy for people to get less services and have money in their pocket to decide for themselves if they want to buy services. Or not. And what they are willing to pay.
Wrong Judy. I believe I should pay more in taxes. I believe we all should pay more in taxes when we borrow 40% of every dollar we spend, if your moronic approach to solving the inequality is cuts alone then you are as myopic as you are asocial. Speak from your own selfish vantage point about what you do not want to do yourself for our country while demanding it do more for you. You don’t speak for me
Because, How much money did you send the government this year over and above what you were required to pay? I mean if you think you should be sending then more thenyou are perfectly free to just go ahead. Or is it all talk?
I actually agree with Because on this . Taxes should go up, along with cuts in spending, and entitlements to not only balance the budget, but also pay off the national debt. However, The problem with raising taxes is that the government will just spend the additional funds instead of doing the right thing. Therefore, there is no point in paying more in taxes. You don’t give a crackhead money expecting them to be responsible.
We should pay off our own debt instead of stealing from our children.
How about we sell off a large part of the “federal lands.” There are millions of acres of non-park lands that the federal government holds as a “dog-in-the-manger” approach. We could easily sell of enough land to pay off the entire debt. The problem is that the numb skulls in DC would never think of ways to keep it from happening again. If the elected/appointed employees don’t or can’t think of the way to do this, we will easily see another Americqan Revolution.
Judy… the same amount you paid to them because you are such a stalwart patriot interested in the good of the country and the welfare of your fellow Americans. And I was waiting for you to ask that question because you know exactly what the answer is: I will not pay more so you can sit on your entitled conservative backside and reap the benefits of my sacrifice for your selfishness.
Because you are selfish.
Because you are a statist.
Because you want to financially destroy the productive.
Because you want to punish success.
Because you want more income taxation on the taxpayers who are paying the bulk of taxes.
Because you are financially and economically illiterate.
Well Because the government can be made smaller and tax revenue would go up with lower tax rates.
I am curious how our liberal friends justify the miserable start to the ACA.
Can’t create a functioning website, can’t handle the demand at the va, but surely can mange a much larger healthcare market.
Actually the private sector contractor couldn’t create a website they promised to do. Also I think this is going well. I got on the MD exchange and tested out shopping, even though I have insurance. Only took an hour, about as long as it did to pick benefits when my job went to a different computerized benefit’s platform!!!! Also Medicare part D was not without it’s problems I believe.
@Cdev –
The government screwed healthcare.gov.
The government always use contractors for these kinds of platforms.
Wow Common… What’s this? Private Industry sucking off the government tit and producing a crappy product? Tell me they are motivated to do a good job and give the taxpayer their money’s worth because after all, the private sector is in this to survive. Tell me again how much more fiscally responsible you and your asocial maximizing private profit and increasing debt for the public sector cohorts are. You are simply a hypocrite and a critic that produces nothing but the hot air that emanates from your orifices. You create nothing, therefore you have nothing else to contribute.
Because it’s clear that healthcare.gov was poorly executed by the government.
Because the government called the shots, gave the direction, designed the process and controlled the project.
No the government ordered a product. The contrator was to deliver that product. Private sector people failed!
@Cdev
The government called the shots on this project and they were irresponsible and incompetent.
You can go ahead and continues to pretend that the government didn’t screw this up but it’s pointless.
You said Cdev, “No the government ordered a product. The contrator was to deliver that product. Private sector people failed!” Okay we’ll pretend you are right. Shouldn’t Kathleen Sibelius demand a $634 Million refund from the software company?
In what way was the customer, the government, irresponsible etc? Yes she should if it didn’t work.
Cdev, Sibelius and HHS are and were in charge of healthcare.gov.
Yes in the same way a customer at McDonalds is in charge of the kitchen.
The Government was in charge for Apollo and the Space Shuttle. Two different outcomes. When you are not hampered by management excesses concerned with cost and schedule you can do good things. When you micromanage and are afraid to do the right thing because it will cost more, you get what you get. It happens all the time when quality is driven form the top down and not from the bottom up. the point is, government can do good things when people are allowed to do their jobs without interference from over zealous mind numbing critics worried about cost and schedule and not the technical end product.
Cdev, really McDonald’s? You think that the government building a web-based health care insurance marketplace is like buying a Big Mac?
It was an analogy!
Cdev, an analogy is something analogous, comparative or like. Ordering food at McDonald’s is nothing like buying custom written software.
Cdev doesn’t understand the difference between buying a burger at the drive thru and building a complex but secure web site that potentially exposes everyone’s information to identity thieves all the while tinkering with their health insurance and that of their children. But who cares about them? They are all in the service of the glorious State.
Fine Subway would have been a better example. You place an order for something and the company said they could build it. They failed in their task. Again the salesman (contractor, sub shop) failed to make the item that was requested which they said they could do. That is a failure of the private sector company. To add insult to injury they kept the money. That would be akin to Subway charging you for the sub they couldn’t make properly. It is a perfect Analogy!!!!!
Cdev, Subway sandwich making has nothing to do with software programing. Software programing is like software programing.
Like the ACA, Apollo 1 blew up on the launch pad Because.
So what I understand is that you are saying is if a customer orders customn software from a contractor it is the customers fault if it doesn’t work, not the contractor who built it?
Cdev, The American citizens are the customers and Sebelius & HHS are in charge of delivering a working health care software platform.
B. Thanks for your hyperbole. Apollo 1 caught fire because of an Oxygen rich atmosphere and a lack of limitations on combustibles that were allowed during a ground test. They later learned that the Soviets had an exact similar occurrence in a 100% Oxygen atmosphere because no one at the time new that a spark could ignite Velcro and set the whole thing ablaze in seconds. McDonnell Douglas and Martin were the previous contractors that built Mercury and Gemini and they had completely different approaches to hatch design that allowed for quick egress in a lower pressure environment with pressurized spacesuits for short duration flights. The Apollo design was more complex because it was required to hold higher pressure than either of the previous capsules in addition to pure Oxygen. But of course you knew that because you were in on the Apollo design from the beginning weren’t you? Or are you now just another spectator, cluelessly watching form the sidelines waiting to jump and catch the guy doing the job that you aren’t qualified to do because you lack the basic knowledge and ambition?
I know this is a wall of text to you B since you like to write one line missives that summarize your contempt for any thought that isn’t yours, but maybe if you read more you would be less ignorant than you are.
HHS contracted that out. HHS was the consumer the contractor failed!
Cdev, you can keep saying that Sebelius, HHS and the Federal government were successful in building and launching healthcar.gov. It just is not true.
Willing to bet that the “failed contractor” was a friend of some politician, or a campaign donor. What a crock
Because you are in more dire need of getting laid then any person I have ever encountered.
I agree with you that I am not qualified to run the Apollo program. However, since others see fit to keep you wallowing under a manager that you see as inept, neither are you.
Your synopsis of someone else’s findings from the Apollo mission doesn’t prove you’re smarter then me, it proves that you are a dick. More importantly, it shows the intolerance of a liberal elitist to free speech and opinion.
Doesn’t change what I said. ACA website launch failed, Apollo 1 failed.
Wow, a no bid contract to a friend/campaign donor for the f***ked up website. Gee No surprises here.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/25/michelle-obamas-princeton-classmate-is-executive-at-company-that-built-obamacare-website/
No project will ever succeed if the requirements are constantly changing. The current story is the registration requirement (name, address, SSN, password, etc) was added less than a month prior to the website launch. That is a huge change in requirements vs just asking for each user’s zip code and showing the current available plans while letting the user determine which plan they qualify for. Another problem is the instantaneous response. If the processor load is too high, they could change to having each user submit their request for available plans, and have the system crunch the numbers overnight (or however long it takes, dependent on load) and then send the user a notice that their options are available for viewing.
President Obama’s plan to parachute in experts this late in the game is a sign of failed leadership and horrible program management. The last-minute-consultant approach never works, especially not in software development, there is no “Ah ha!” moment that will fix the entire site with one change to the code. I’d pay a lot of money to read the daily/weekly progress reports from all the levels from the developers up to the White House. I bet they painted a very rosy picture up until the website went live, and no one considered a full-scale test of the system (for example, requiring tens of thousands of government workers try to use the system during a specified time period, the largest test I’ve heard of was in the low hundreds) until after it failed on deployment.
Because we didn’t have your expert opinion to guide them B.
Anyone who has ever been on a government related project could tell you how thorough and excessive the specifications and required testing are.
This has clearly been mismanaged. This presidency in a nutshell.
Anyone that is involved in contracting will tell you how badly things can get gummed up because the contracting officials don’t have the brains to properly communicate between a prospective vendor and a customer that has requirements. I had one contract specialist tell me that I had to go find another cable manufacturing company to make my cables for a proprietary transducer because the sole source supplier buys their cables from their affiliate in China. She assured me she wasn’t going to jail for me. When I spoke to her supervisor later I asked him to identify the make of the computer on his desk and where it was made. The answer is India, Pakistan and China and it was a Dell. So much for buy American, and that contract specialist found another job. Thank God for that. And B… you really have no clue about what goes on except what you imagine with your fetid little mind. Come on man.. be like that Republican nutjob in North Carolina that got outted on the Daily Show and admit you just hate him because he’s black and smarter than you and got elected to office, twice.
Your sense of self importance sometimes staggers me. At first I thought you were lashing out and projecting your unhappy home life on others, but now I think you are more of a modern day Narcissus.
Propping the president up because of the color of his skin is no less racist then those that deride him for the same reason.
Content of character, not color of skin David. My generation didn’t grow up in the same world as yours.
By the way, your cable example is mismanaged specification, just like I said.
It’s easy to justify. It’s not our fault. George Bush owns this miserable start to the ACA. It’s his fault. When he was in the hospital recently for a heart stent, he secretly sabotaged this wonderful new health care program. Naturally, the President and I knew nothing about this until after the miserable start. I am damn mad about this, but not as mad as the President, because nobody is madder about this than him.
Perhaps the heart blockage explains why he was late in concluding just how screwed up his administration was.
Back to the original poster, I get your frustration, but griping about government spending when your 4 children have government jobs (a la David Craig) is hypocritical. Also realize that “increased cost to healthcare and pensions” ignores the fact that those pensions are funded by taxpayers and that the subsidies they get for health care insurance are not only government-supplied but are also not taxed by the federal or state or local governments (just like the Obamacare subsidies for poor folks by the way).Shouldn’t your children lose those benefits and subsidies to help control government spending?
Because, to further illustrate your earlier claims about Congress, I submit the following that was sent to me:
It’s easy to dismiss individual programs that benefit non-citizens until they’re put together and this picture emerges. Someone did a lot of research to put together all of this data. Often these programs are buried within other programs making them difficult to find.
Great bit of Information.
WHY is the USA BANKRUPT?
Read this:
We have been hammered with the propaganda that it was the Iraq war and the war on terror that is bankrupting us.
I hope the following 11 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read so many times that the reader gets sick of reading them. I also Have included the URL’s for verification of all the following facts.
1.
$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year by state governments.
Verify At: http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd8
2.
$22 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
Verify At:http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML
3.
$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
Verify at:http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.HTML
4.
$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!
Verify At:http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt…0.HTML
5.
$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as, “anchor babies.”
Verify At:http://transcripts.CNN.com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
6.
$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens. Verify At:http://transcripts.cnn.com/%20TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt.01.HTML
7.
30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens. Verify At:http://transcripts.CNN..com/TRANscriptS/0604/01/ldt..01.HTML
8.
$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & Social Services by the American taxpayers.
Verify At:http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.HTML
9.
$200 Billion dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
Verify At:http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRI
10.
In 2006, illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances to their Countries of origin.
Verify At:.http://www/.rense.com/general75/niht.htm
11.
The dark side of illegal immigration: Nearly one million sex crimes committed by illegal immigrants in the United States . Verify At:http: // http://www.drdsk.com/articleshtml
The total cost is a whopping…
338.3 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR
AND IF YOU’RE LIKE ME, HAVING TROUBLE UNDERSTANDING THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY; IT IS $ 338,300,000,000.00 WHICH WOULD BE ENOUGH TO STIMULATE THE ECONOMY FOR THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTRY.
Are we THAT stupid?
YES, FOR ALLOWING THOSE in THE U.S. CONGRESS to GET AWAY WITH DOING THIS YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!!
I believe that most people would consider these programs as LIBERAL.
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PAGE NOT FOUND. Why is that Monster?
Because,
Look again tomorrow when you are at work. You will have more time to find it.
Because,
Share with me what you couldn’t find in the sites quoted. Do you ever give your sources? The information is there. If a particular page is not available at the time, you are told how to access it.
Number 11
Cdev,
You are determined to ignore the facts on this because they are so darn indicting of the Lib/Dem executive branch. The government made a conscious decision to bend the procurement rules and have specific companies which they hand selected write a statement of work and then made a direct non-competitive award to those companies. Wow! Every contractors dream. Especially on a job where the contractors knew there would be a ton of change orders each priced separately.
The companies convinced the government to do the final acceptance testing and when the government made the decision to turn on the site it de facto agreed that it was fit for service therefore there is no comeback against the contractors. The companies knew that the job couldn’t be done properly in the time allotted but they also knew that the government couldn’t realistically refuse to turn it on because of the egos involved. They also knew that there would be so many change orders that they could never be held liable for missing a date because each change order came with the warning that it might jeopardize finally delivery. It also came with its own additional cost. For a contractor this is better than winning the lottery. The really, really big lottery.
And today? Deja vu all over again. More changes directly awarded at more cost. And somewhere a contracting officer with a paper trail covering his or her backside that includes direct orders to do a non-competitive award to a specific company signed by a high level Obama administration official who probably has an office in the White House.
And you want to defend these guys? You must be absolutely clueless about how this stuff works. And not one person has been fired. And you continue to look for someone else to blame.
The only thing better than this would be the contractor working at cost plus G&A and fee. That is Christmas, and every other gift giving holiday all rolled in to one plus the lottery. Actually I suspect it was cost plus. And believe me the contractors aren’t fixing this mess for free because every fix is also a direct award and likely cost plus as well.
And Sebelius takes a government executive jet at taxpayer expense to Arizona to visit a call center so she can be as far away as possible from the investigating committee. Of course she will be luck to escape without falling on her sword for the president and his supporters.
Right, Cdev? You are going to expect her to take one for the cause aren’t you?
Cdev is like so many other “open minded” people that refuse to be anything but. He will blindly follow and defend his furor. You should really just ignore the helpless peon. He gets sexually exited by provoking ire out of individuals whom can think for themselves.
WOW!!!!! You are sick!
Truth hurts dude. Thank you for you constant source of daily entertainment. To believe that an individual could be so dumb and narrow minded makes me wonder if you may have mental issues.
Shows how weak of an argument you have when you must resort to crude sexual insults. BTW I love how the TEA party members get up set by the term TEA bagger ( which they inadvertently used themselves) but think this is intelligent discourse!
Wow I have read a lot of comments from this “CDEV” I think the above poster was right about being a deviant. What a sad narrow minded individual he is indeed.
And there you have it again, ladies and gentlemen! Cdev uses one if his scathing comebacks, “WOW!!!!! You are sick!” How can you argue with that? Match and point!
As others on here have rightly said, the government ordered a product sole source that they knew or should have known could not be delivered in the time frame the wanted. Then they issued endless change orders to a spec that really screwed up the timeline. Then they accepted the product as meeting their requirement without proper testing. By accepting it they agreed that it was what they wanted.
That is like asking Ford to build me a red Bronco and deliver it in 2 weeks and then constantly telling them wait I want a Focus no wait I want green no wait I want a GPS no wait I want a Fiesta no wait I want leather not cloth no wait I want custom wheels. So at the end of 2 weeks they deliver me a screwed up mess and I say “Wow, just what I wanted! and try to drive it off the lot although the transmission doesn’t match the engine and there are 4 different types of tires on it and it breaks down when I put it in gear and start to drive. But I say that’s okay I will take it anyway. And with all of the change orders I pay 7 times what I should have.
Why in the world would anyone be that stupid?
BECAUSE OF THEIR EGO. The executive branch paid $700 million and got slapped in the face by the American people and by their own party. Ego plus stupidity plus arrogance = health care dot gov.
That, my friends, is your government at work on your behalf using your money.
It makes me nauseous to say it but I don’t think even Cdev would have done that bad of a job had he been in charge. But he continues to defend those in the executive branch that did screw it up by trying to place the blame on the contractor.
No, there is plenty of blame to go around in the Government. I would not have paid for it until what I ordered worked. That said for those who advocate private sector solutions clearly they promised something they could not deliver! That is my point. People talk about how the private sector does so much better but can’t admit sometimes they need government and sometimes they screw up!
Cdev, Sebelius, HHS and the Federal government failed. The private sector does better than the government and when they don’t they go out of business unlike the government which just keeps failing.
Really then why is this company still in buisness and why did they fail to make a website?
Cdev, you need to learn how to read, comprehend, think and then speak.