By Richard Clements
About 8 years ago two women and a 7-year old boy appeared, from a yet to be determined place, in Havre de Grace. At first they were seen as just moving in slo-mo from place to place. I saw them many times and simply thought them to be a few old ladies doing their daily slow motion ritual. I was not aware of the details. I was not aware that they were sleeping on the bench in the police station. I was not aware that they were sleeping in the post office. I was not aware that they were sleeping behind stores.
At some point Social Services got involved and removed the boy from the situation as he was not attending school and the parent was not “providing” for him. At some point they left the police station. At some point the post office asked them to leave.
One day about 3 years or so ago…as in the scene from Forest Gump, where after running for a year or two, he simply stops…the invisible women simply stopped moving. They stopped moving 200 feet from the mayor’s yard…300 feet from my yard and seem to be the gate keepers of our one access street.
Here is what’s known about them:
– They are on the corner. They are a mother and daughter. There are a lot of unverifiable stories circulating about them.
– They are not pan-handlers.
– A source in the Havre de Grace Police department has told me that there is an ambiguous account of some type of estate dispute involving them…the women won’t discuss it. The same reputable source told me that the police department doesn’t actually know who they are and they have never produced I.D.
– They are selective as to who they will take assistance from.
In the last year they have taken to displaying signs and standing on the corner of Route 40 and Otsego Street. I have attempted to speak to them only to be met with a stare.
Sadly these women seem to have become part of the scenery and are now as invisible as an individual tree passed on the highway. Everyone seems to have a reason that they are OK where they are. No one considers that standing motionless for three years is not the best indicator of mental health and should be dealt with.
Do we just let them stand there until one of them falls over dead?
UPDATED August 19, 2008:
By Richard Clements
During citizen comments near the end of last nights council meeting I confronted the mayor of Havre de Grace, Wayne Dougherty, as to the lack of progress after over a year in office. When the mayor took office a stock answer of “we are working on it” was given yet over a year later these women still languish in exactly the same spot. My question last night was simple “what humane answer to their plight is being sought?” I explained to the mayor that we had enough ordinances, even locally, to push for a humain entry into the system for these two distressed people.
Mayor Dougherty, after a comment about his chagrin over being blindsided by me, stated, to my utter disgust, that the best he could come up with was passing the buck to the state DOT and asking that they simply pile the women’s stuff into a truck and haul it away using a new rule about memorials at the roadside. The rational behind this is apperantly a comment made directly to the mayor that the Rosa Parks sign is a memorial as stated by the mother. Aside from a plethera of legal issues, and showing the cold heartedness of the administration, an action of this nature only moves the problem and further hurts these women.
The mayor has not exhausted his resources, yet he wants to pass the buck, like Pilot, to the state. If mayor Dougherty would use the city attorney for other uses than talking to me in circles for 2 hours a day, over his marina scam, thinking hes avoiding the unavoidable we might actually make some progress on this very unique issue. If the city attorney was used to move these people into a mental health oriented direction we would possibly eliminate the problem.
since they refuse to speak to those who are in a position to help I would suggest a court order to evaluate there mental condition. other wise be treated as vagrant’s.
Think we can get the ladies to sport fresh Dagger shirts? We would be getting free publicity and helping the homeless. win win!
On the issue of the two lady’s. The source from the police dept is not telling all, for my source at the police dept has told me that yes there was a child and yes social services did step in and remove the child and sent the child to live with his father in W Va which is where these two women are from. Multiple officers have tried to assist these lady’s and have been treated with great disrespect one female (officer) was called a white devil b#@$, by these women. I agree they need to be treated by someone for mental problems. But what gets me is why does Mr Gilbert allow them to send in front of his store and potenionally drive away his customers, and why hasnt our elected officials siad enough is enough and taken care of the situation.
They are on the sidewalk. The police say they can be there as long as they dont block it. They do block the crossing signal button and the sidewalk on Ostego St. No longer can I walk down to the prominade as they block the path. I now have to drive there.
Our mayor says “We are working on it”.
it may be a public’ side walk. and there blocking pedestrian traffic. then they are a public nuisance. which to me read’s as vagrant’s, of which they choose to be. lock up.
the record did an article about them almost a year ago. the reporter interviewed a lot of people, including hdg officials and locals that have tried to help them. lou ward, the owner of the bayou, had teamed up with bch realty guy charlie heiner, and they tried to set them up with a place to live for free. they wouldn’t do it.
they are angry because the post office is now locked at night, because they used to sleep there. they feel that it is public property and that it is their right to be there. they were allowed to until they were allegedly using the bathroom in there as well.
according to what the people working at the liquor store have said they told them, the first sign–which was just the mention of rosa parks–was a result of them being removed from a weis bathroom because they were washing in the sink. they felt that this was discrimination and that’s where the rosa parks comparison began. from there the feelings (or their written signs) of discrimination have increased to what you see in the pictures.
there are definitely a fixture downtown, and everyone has a story about they or someone they know trying to help them. i’ve heard that they cursed a woman who tried to bring them thanksgiving dinner and did the same to several people who tried to give them money.
i’ve also heard that they do have family in the area who have tried to help them and that they still come to visit them on their corner most sundays.
regardless, they aren’t hurting anyone if left alone. they don’t bother anyone, they don’t ask for handouts–they just stand on the corner with their signs and umbrellas. you can’t help people who don’t want help, but i also don’t think that they should be removed.
Richiec will be a long shortly he does not miss much along the haver de grace corridor. we will see what he has to say.
I HAVE TRIED TO GIVE THEM MCDONALDS, I SAY THEM AT THAT FAMILY WASH AND DRY AND OFFERED TO WASH THERE CLOTHES AND THEY ARE MEAN!!! NOT SO MUCH THE YOUNGER OF THE TWO BUT THE OLDER ONE. THEY DONT BOTHER YOU WE SEEM TO BOTHER THEM MORE THAN THEY BOTHER US, ITS SAD THEY COULD GET A LOT OF HELP
From the HdG City code.
108-2-a and c
108-3
108-4
The above can applie in this case.
ARTICLE I Unlawful Assembly [Derived from 1988 Codified Ordinances]
§ 108-1. Definitions.
As used in this chapter, the following terms shall have the meanings indicated: LAWFUL BUSINESS — The act of conducting, going to or returning from any social, educational, recreational, religious, business or any other activity not prohibited by law.
LOITER — To idle, stand around, tarry, remain or wander on foot, or to idle or tarry without being engaged in lawful business. “Loiter” also means to collect, gather, congregate or be a member of a group or crowd of people who are gathered together in any public place or place open to the public without engaging in any lawful business at such place or, having concluded any lawful business, to remain in such place an undue length of time without further lawful business.
PLACE OPEN TO THE PUBLIC — Any place open to the public or any place to which the public is invited, and in, on or around any privately owned place of business, private parking lot or private institution, including places of worship, cemetery or any place of amusement and entertainment, whether or not a charge of admission or entry thereto is made. It includes the elevator, lobby, halls, corridors and areas open to the public of any store, office or apartment building.
PUBLIC PLACE — Any public street, road, highway, alley, lane, sidewalk, crosswalk, or other public way, or any public resort, place of amusement, park, playground, public building or grounds appurtenant thereto, school building or school grounds, public parking lot or any public vacant lot.
§ 108-2. Prohibited conduct.
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to disobey the direction or order of a uniformed police officer to desist in loitering at, on or near a public place or place open to the public when such loitering is impeding or hindering or may impede or hinder the free passage of pedestrian or vehicular traffic to, from or within such places.
B. It shall be unlawful for any person to disobey the direction or order of a uniformed police officer to desist in loitering at, on or near a public place or a place open to the public when such loitering constitutes a clear and present danger to the public peace.
C. It shall be unlawful for any person to loiter, without the consent of the owner, operator or person in control, on or about any place open to the public after said premises have been closed for business purposes and after said person has been directed or ordered to leave by a uniformed police officer.
D. It shall be unlawful for any person to loiter on or about any place open to the public during business hours, after having been requested to leave by the owner, operator or person in control of said premises and after having been directed or ordered to leave by a police officer.
§ 108-3. Unlawful assembly on streets and sidewalks and near entrances to buildings.
It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to congregate or assemble at the corner or corners of any of the streets, lanes or alleys or on any of the sidewalks or approaches thereto in said City, so as to obstruct the same, or at the entrance of any public or private building within the limits of said City, and to be engaged in loud and boisterous laughing or talking, or making any rude, obscene or insulting comments, remarks or observations on persons passing by the same, or in their hearing, or to so crowd or obstruct the sidewalks or approaches thereto so as to prevent the free and uninterrupted passage thereto, therefrom or through the same.
§ 108-4. Unlawful assembly by persons or vehicles on thoroughfares and in parking areas.
It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to congregate themselves or vehicles owned, operated or controlled by them at or on any public or private thoroughfare or parking area so as to obstruct the same or the free use thereof or in any disorderly manner as would tend to cause obstruction, loud or boisterous noise, rude, obscene or insulting comments or that might tend in any way to cause to promote violence, and said assembly shall immediately disperse upon the order of the owner of any such property or the person in control thereof or upon the order of any police officer.
I think one of these could be used as a gateway into the system and they could be helped. But alas the only creativity HdG seems to have is our ability to find excuses for the quality detractors in our marina…and ways to demonize those who actually care about this community .
“Good Job Dougherty” !
Go Dagger !
Go Dagger !
they haven’t been told by the police to leave the corner, and the liquor store owner isn’t bothered by them. they don’t heckle passersby. they certainly aren’t keeping a vehicle in a parking lot. even if they don’t accept help–they aren’t hurting or harrassing anyone. you are basically trying to lawfully evict pedestrians (who only interact with others when approached by them) from the sidewalk.
Hdg…aside from the fact that they are under some kind of mental seige…..come to my house and we will cross rt 40….cummon now…ill have your beverage of choice ready.
oh…and if you go to use the gas pumps at night….dont be alarmed when they grumble at you
Go Dagger !
Actually the police did tell them to leave the police station, cut them off from the bathrooms…read there signs…
Go Dagger !
Hdg…pedestrians…are you nuts…pedestrians are in motion going from here to there…they got a goddam anchor…a truckload of junk…and a mental illness…I cant beleive you called them pedestrians…….when they are dead…you can have it on your concious for being an enabler…!!!!!
You’d by a dope addict a fix……the one hell O.D. on…..!!!! (after all hes not bothering anyone)
Pedestrians…..what a joke.
Go Dagger
it would appear there breaking a haver de grace ordinance. and no body cares.and then we have petty law breaker’s doing as they please
Richie is there a spare street corner available?
Yes vet…in the yacht basin…..you can do as you please as long as your name is NOT RichieC. If its RichieC you must be very straite and narrow…in fact your guilty automaticly…no process necessary ! Good Job Dougherty !
In fact…these women break my heart daily as they clearly are in some kind of state of turmoil…to watch them passed by and ignored like a bundle of newspapers simply because we have become used to them is befuddling.
Go Dagger !
I came across these three (at the time) in Aberdeen about eight years ago. The mother, daughter and son appeared on the streets off a Greyhound bus sporting fairly nice clothing and luggage. After several instances of seeing them on the street I stopped to investigate their situation, but met by children who would not speak and a very cautious or suspicious mother. The mother an ddaughter did produce Maryland ID cards, but the address listed was that of the MVA in Glen Burnie. Having committed no crimes and the stop was consentual, I moved on, but seeing them often and wondering what they were all about.
Some months later the mother and son went largely unseen, but teh daughter was working at the McDonald’s on Rt. 40 in Aberdeen. Shortly thereafter they all disappeared and then resurfaced in Perryville and again onto Havre de Grace…curious…
I have to say they are violating local and state laws by obstructing the sidewalk to tout their message to Harford County DSS for taking the son and so on…
Well rick…if thats what the message is…..so be it…which came first the chicken or the egg? Was the son taken and they hit the street or did they hit the street and the son taken?
The point is that they cannot fend for them selves beyond this bizzarr existance…its not tolorable !
Go Dagger !
Richard….by using that law to get them in front of a judge…would not it be a service to them and the community at large ?
i would think as both citizens of the same town–and since you feel others have consistently tried to silence you–that you might welcome a dialogue without attacking and becoming personally insulting. i don’t have to be nuts to have a different opinion than the esteemed richie c. you’re rude. maybe that’s why no one listens to you.
my point is that they don’t want to be helped, and that they really aren’t bothering anyone.
Hdg Citizen…ok im rude….so what! does that change the facts? Have you ever considered for just a second that mabey I have been raised elsewhere where we express ourselves differently, with significently more color…..? I have met very many people who are rude with false, mocking, courtisey…in my native neck of the woods a comment such as mine is not taken for more than what it is, an expression of what I think of what you have said. A little acceptance of different cultures is what severly lacking. If you keep it in context…and use a little common horse sense you would not be so insulted at my strong opposition to your comment…..of course I dont think your nuts…its just a response to a comment I disagree with ..and where Im from its very acceptable to express ones self in that manner. Now considering that New York is the capitol of the world…I think there might be some merritt to what I say.
So you and I disagree……why would you simply let them deteriote..are we not our brothers keeper…is it a lot to ask that these troubled people…who dont even fit the typical homless profile…get at least a fighting chance?
Hint…dont take it to heart…..im not the enemy..at least I am clear in what I say.
But I do appresiate the reaching out from you…so Ive given my best answer to you.
Go Dagger !
So…I just rolled in and its 11.59…the bags are on the corner and they are at the pumps exactly as seen in the pictures.
By the way…I hav’nt rolled in from the bar…Ive rolled in from the plant in Edgewood where I was preparing a load of wall panels for delivery to the Bronx tomorrow. I’ll be up at 4.30 for a 10 am appointment under the crane on Webster Ave and 156 street…anyone wanna ride along?
Go Dagger !
There and eye sore to the visitors of haver de grace. & should at least be removed to a less public area. may be we could invite them back to aberdeen train station. to greet the brac visitor’s. & lounge with the rest of the bum’s that hang there.
Billboards don’t speak, they don’t impeed pedestrians on the sidewalk, and they are used to get a message out. God forbid that any counter-culture group, politico, or John Q. Citizen with an ax to grind finds a picture offensive, a word offensive, or can claim that at 5:07 each day the sightline in their hybrid is slightly altered causing them to speed up and waste enery……..that billboard would be taken down or changed. You hear about it all over the country. These aren’t billboards, but humans, humans that apparently have sometimes coarse exchanges with John Q. Citizen (albeit the 1st Amendment does offer protection in this area), they loiter (stand in one place) on a public sidewalk that may cause John Q. Citizen to step into traffic to get around them or alter a travel path, and they may be suffering from some type of mental health issue.
Taking all of that into consideration, isn’t it the job of the police to protect and serve? Protect those ladies 1st Amendment rights while protecting John Q. Citizens right to walk on the sidewalk uninhibited and in a safe path simply by asking them to move on then ordering them to move on, and if they fail to comply they can be arrested and charged, placed in the system, and receive, under court order, help, whether they want it or not, regarding possible mental health issues.
In my opinion, weak leadership in the police department has let this blossom to the point where it is at right now. Weak leadership in the police department that won’t think outside of the box. Weak leadership in the police department that takes a cue from a town council that is more worried about how things look (and this looks unsightly) and wants to maintain a status quo when it comes to political correctness.
Well Dagger readers, the United States Constitution doesn’t address political correctness. The laws of the state of Maryland don’t address political correctness. In this case I do see political correctness rearing it’s ugly and intrusive head, if these women were men would they be treated differently or if the color of their skin was different would they be treated differently? Is Havre De Grace worried that the almighty Jesse or Rev. Al might come to the quiet town and yell racism? Is it that the town officials don’t care that the “Lady Bums” are fastly becoming the town mascot? Or, is it a simple case of leadership that can’t lead, can’t think outside of the box, and pursues selective enforcement so that there are no headaches?
RWringer we the people are willing to vote you in on the next election. ( aberdeen) sorry Richiec he’s our’s. I have repeatedly seen excellent suggestions made by a former aberdeen police officer ( rick denu)
go totally ignored. when they came from a highly trained& experienced police officer. it might require a certain a mount of effort to put them in too action.
it would seem aberdeen & haver de grace are in need of a change of command or at the very least a review of local ordnance law’s.
Well said rwinger…
HdG is suffering from the Dougherty doctrin at this time.
Its ether a legal issue and cant be discussed…or a personell issue and cant be discussed…or the other stock answer…”we will check it out”…any inquirey or follow up beyond that is met with wrath of the “Dougherty Doctrine”.
Who suffers…two women who dont even know we are discussing them…and our collective conciouses.
This morning I called as usial to the police…”there is junk abandoned on the sidewalk”….the dispatcher said…”no one is complaining”…I told her “what am I, a pinapple?” I was than snapped at and told…”Im sending a car to your house to explain it to you !”.
Go Dagger !
im just scared with everything going on someone is going to harm them or someone/drunks god forbid is going to take them out. i was in an accident twice there hit by a dump truck driver who claimed to have not seen me, please i was driven right up on that very same curb they sit on 4yrs ago so dont you think they should be moved somewhere else and let them protest there give them a house or something let them put all the signs up they want there i work two jobs, why cant they get jobs and work i have plenty of things i want to make signs for and sit out you dont see me doin it, the government will screw you regardless
I have to say they are violating local and state laws by obstructing the sidewalk to tout their message to Harford County DSS for taking the son and so on…
this from Richard Denu who is easily recognized as a law enforcement officer by his reply above. So why cant our local cops and elected officials get their heads out of their buttock’s and open their eyes cause if this was teenagers they would have been in juvenile hall and if it was any other adult of different ethnic back ground they would have been removed. I for one am tired of watching these two pop their pimples, pick their noses, on our public streets. This is not just a matter of our local citizens people as far away as Washington state know about these two so that decreases our tourists, which is the one thing that keeps our community here but that is right our great city council messed that up when they listened to some idiots that said berthing a retired Navel Vessel here would be an eye sore. When really it would have been a part of the local history, a large tourist attraction and an education attraction as well. SO WE JUST NEED TO START A PETITION TO HAVE THEM REMOVED SO THAT WE CAN SHOW OUR TOURISTS THAT WE ARE A CLEAN CITY AND TO SHOW OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO LET THEM OR THE POLICE DO NOTHING ANYMORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i’ve heard this said twice now: what is the basis for saying that if they were of “another ethnic background” (which i’m assuming you mean: if they were white) they would not be allowed to stand there?
I would LOVE to see OUR POLICE AND PUBLIC OFFICIALS do their job in this case! Those women are definitely an eyesore! Nobody feels any compassion for them anymore because they have been offered, and refused, help MANY TIMES! They see somebody trying to walk down the sidewalk … I have been in this position before … and they just stand there with all their “prized possessions”, i’m assuming – not caring if they cause you to have to step into traffic to get around them! THEY’RE A DISGRACE and the public officials need to remove them – arrest them – and get them out of our sight and way!!
I suppose we the people’ should ignore what is obvious. there vagrant’s by choice. haver de grace is and up coming city. aberdeen has a fair share of vagrant’s. wino’s etc.
primarly at the railroad station. greeters for brac no doubt. some body got these ”lady’s” off of the route#40 corridor. most likely the state police. some body made them under stand it’s vagrancy & dangerous. or maybe we can get a ”church” group to gether and sing amazeing grace.
The only petitions honored by Mayor Dougherty are those he initiates….the anti ship petition advertised on the city web site….the petition against free speech with 30 signatures from friends of tha marina manager that got me thrown out of the marina were OK…the petition to get a new marina manager…the petition to get me back in the marina with a hundred signatures…ALL IGNORED…so I dont think a petition to get them off the street is going to help.
I say if you see them in what appears to be distress, if they are in a prone position,…call the police at 939-2121 and report it.
Of course if you want to start a petition drive I will certainly participate. It certainly can’t hurt.
Go Dagger….
Last time I called to police to report junk on the sidewalk (they were in the gas station) I was told no-one complaines…when I said “what do you think Im doing?”…the answer was…”im sending a car to your house to explain it to you!”
This I found disturbing.
Go Dagger !
Does anyone have the time to look up USC on loitering…us 40 is a federal road. Or state code and law on loitering.
Go Dagger !
I was told the mother was complaining that she wasnt feeling well and Joe offered to call her an ambulance. This within the last few days. She declined
Go Dagger !
Then if the police will not do anything unless someone is complaining then maybe if we call them every ten min., then they will do something. Let’s get the petition started ending a copy to the city, the county and the state government.Then maybe we will see something done. As to answer HDG’s ? if they were white the local police here in HDG would have Tazzered and arrested them for the being vagrant’s. They are well known to reverse discriminate there is a large population of homeless white people here in HDG that at night live in hiding in various locations around town because they have been beaten by HDG PD.
firefighter…ok….im in…lets get the logistics, wording, going immediatly. My e-mail address is onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
I dont personally know of any beatings, though, Im still up for the petition.
Go Dagger !
luvarainienight@comcast.net
Send it to me, too … I’m in! I just saw them this morning on the way to my Dad’s house after the Fritsche funeral … very disgraceful to me!! They do, for real, need to do SOMETHING to remove them!
Well just an update I went to Pizza Hut last night and its a good thing that no one was comming down from the car wash cause they would have run them over they were standing in the road talking to them each other only room for one car to get through. Oh and the best thing (HA HA) was that one of our so called law enforcement officers went right past them and the MTA cops should do something you would rhink do to the traffic situation because of the bridge work. OK Richiec and Terri we’ll do the petition well have to sit down together to really hatch out the wording and all.
Richiec and Terri i here is my email address firefighterkrs@aol.com
Ill draft up somthing and send it to both of you to review, take a look and comment…than we will get a consensous and a final wording…..ok…give me until tomorrow
Go Dagger !
You know that they are both not right in the mind. The mother is mental and to me the daughter is also mental as how could she et them take her child so that she could stay on the streets with her Mother? If that was me I would have done what is right for my child and had himin school and a roof over his head.
I can’t see why they let them sport a cart that is full of racial things. Yes I’m sorry that things had happened in the past, but is just that THE PAST! I can’t help what others have done to anyone that long ago as I was not around to change the past. In that case I would have helped the Native Americans keep their land and Afro Americans have the same rights as we did. Why do so many people want to live in the past? If we could all FORGIVE and FORGET them our future could be such a better place.
We need to get them off the streets and if they don’t want to listen them take them to Harfords fifth floor for mental health or let them move back to where they came from. Why did they move from down South to find our nice little town that we try and keep clean. Who wants to stop at the red light and watch some of the timgs that they do. They need to do them in the privacy of their own home. They have money and a steady income so use it. I’m sure if I tried to live on the street I would be run out of town in a second. Why do they get to live FREE in our town when we have to pay taxes to live in a home? They are an eye sore and need to leave our nice little town. I have lived here for 43 years and am proud of our town, but I’m not pleased to have people like them living free where ever they please to stay. They call white people names and treat us like dirt, but if the table was turned we would be in jail and run out of town as fast as they could get us out.
Maybe Joey should charge them rent. Maybe that would make them move, maybe we could take them over the bridge and leave them in Perryville.
How about if they stand out around Bulle Rock and see how long they stay around, I bet it wouldn’t be that long and they would be pushing threir cart on down the road. HA HA
Well said fightercin.
Joe has no say-so in the matter. They are not on his property. The city doesnt want to deal with it…blinders as usial.
Mabey a little noise in a petition…good old fashoned grass roots activism…keep an eye out.
The fifth floor might be just the thing.
Go Dagger !
The folks of Havre De Grace have the government officials that they elected and unfortunately they have a chief of police that the government hired, not so much for law enforcement abilities and leadership, but political correctness. This is just the latest crop of what was sewn years prior.
By the way, if the Havre De Grace poster children were standing, oh let’s say, by the marina, I do believe that they would have been banished a long time ago.
Greeting’s mr RWinger.as alway’s your advice is welcome. I bet if channel 13 new’s appeared in this ignored ”issue” we would hear a lot more excuse’s about how they were so ”busy” with Richiec they did’nt have time for city problem’s.
used dick gelfman’ a time or too my self. before his accident.there was a man that got thing’s moveing! and I do mean fast!
I was reminded recently that the founding fathers gave gaurantees of freedom of the press because they felt that checks and balances…ther court of public opionion was as powerfull as a court of law. Gelphman was a breed that has all but vanished..not afraid to expose and shine a light on an issue. When there is no press the govt seems to get comfortable with doing as it pleases.
Go Dagger !
I came across a You Tube video of these women while researching Port Deposit several months ago. I must admit when my husband told me we would be passing through HdG this weekend (I’ve never been by land before) I knew what I was going to be looking for and sure enough there they were as soon as we came across the bridge. So here I am trying to find out more about them this evening. I live in Pennsylvania by the way. Why don’t you write to some of the investigative news programs? I felt sorry for them at first, but after reading more I can see why the need to remove them. My first instinct would be to help them, but after seeing them, I wouldn’t walk past them on the sidewalk. There is no question they are mentally ill and need help and are loitering among other things. I have a question though, do they stay there and sleep standing up at night? Do they talk to each other? What do they do in the snow and rain just stand there? How long have they actually been standing there?
Where do they eat?
They eat from pizza hut…stuff from 7-11 and highs.
Richie, maybe they could move down to Aberdeen, seems that Ruth Elliott is trying to champion a cause………that’s right the police in Aberdeen wouldn’t put up with loitering, sidewalk obstruction, and alike and then Ruth would beat up on the police for doing their jobs!
they have been on the ” street” for at least a year. hanging a round weis’s food market & burger king. according to rick denu. ( ex police officer ) they arrived in aberdeen. and moved on to haver de grace.
there no longer hanging’ a round rte#40 so I suspect the state police had something to do with that. it may be a civil right’s issue. but frankly I think there crazy and in need of help.
regardless it’s ”vagrancy”
These women don’t want to be bothered!!! All they ask for is to be able to use their rights just as much as anyone of us. So sorry that they are an “eye sore” for Havre de Grace. Although I can mention alot of eye sores in the wonderful world of Havre De Grace, but I won’t go there. These women don’t want your help or anyone else to help them for that matter. Why is that so hard to understand? Oh let me guess……it makes you look bad for living in a town that has these women in it no matter what town it is!! Well boo-freakin-hoo. Get over yourselves. HDG isn’t all it’s cracke up to be….then again there is alot of crackheads in HDG…LMAO!!! So maybe it is cracked up to what it should be. Leave the women alone they are not hurting you or me……just your unjustice since of pride!! Worry about yourselves and not what your family from outta town will think about the two black women standing on the corner of your wonderful town. And as far as for them both being crazy and needing mental help…says you!!!! Nobody has ever asked them their education backgrounds or their work histories or anything that pertains to their mental state. Oh but I guess if you decide to live on the corner of a street instead of living the way the rest of the community see’s fit, then that makes you nuts. So if your eyes are so sore looking at them maybe you should shut them…..for good!!!
You people need to wake up and take a looooooong hard look around!!!! HDG IS NOT THE BEST PLACE TO LIVE IN BY ALL MEANS!!!! Oh or is it that you all only exist on one side of the tracks?
vet they are on 40…40 and ostego st hdg…..
Tonya…they are sick…mentaly stressed…sure it looks like hell….but more important is that they live in the street…at the corner…and yes…when they do harm to themselvs its bothering me.
Tonay….
Go Dagger !
So RichieC attended the Havre de Grace City Council meeting Monday night and was able to get an answer out of Mayor Wayne Dougherty on how the homeless women will be dealt with.
Check out the update to the story above.
Tonya First mental health has NOTHING to do with work history or education level For example Howard Hughes a wealthy well educated man died do to mental illness. Here is another one the Man , an aviation engineer, that designed Boeings Cargo helicopter went crazy because of designing it so education and work history have nothing to do with your mental status duh. what they are doing is harming themselves yes they wether the elements that would be fine if they had shelter, which they don’t , they will not except any nor do they make an attempt to find one they don’t bathe which if you have ever walked past them in the 7-11 or Weis when they were allowed there you would know this, that is also unhealthy not only to them put to the public. They block, that part of the side walk forcing you to step into the street. I have been an ADVANCED EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN, and an ARMY MEDIC for the past 20 years both requiring extensive training in recognizing the signs and symptoms of mental illness and let me tell you they both present all of these signs and symptoms. All we are trying to mainly do is get these lady’s the help they need and should have got when DSS took the 7 yearold boy away and sent him to the father.
Firefighter…well said…
No More Stock Answers. Action. Its realy not a lot to ask for.
Go Dagger !
In Doughertys response he mentioned that he has been in contact with the NAACP. Why in gods name and what in gods name does the NAACP have to do with two people standing on the corner in HdG. We know that they have called a female cop a white devil bitch…and seem to be fairly racist in there thinking…but what does that have to do with anything.
They are mentaly stressed people who ned to be introduced into the system so they can start to function again. We dont need the NAACP’S permission to do what we as a community must do. The NAACP referance is a sign that there is real paranoia (fear) about them by Dougherty. Fear that is crippling his ability to trake action. I wonder what other permissions he has asked groups such as the NAACP, during his tenure….food for thought.
Go Dagger !
First off Richie, how the hell can you even know what the Mayor said since you wouldn’t even give him the courtesy of a response to you attack (which was a blindside). And any dispute to that comment need only watch the broadcast of the council meeting on HCN where Mr. Richie, in his charming way (charming as a cold sore that is), berated the Mayor and then immediately stomped off, not allowing his questions to be answered or his comments to be addressed.
The police do know who these people are, ID’s have been confirmed. THEY REFUSE ALL HELP. Every single government agency, church or charitable group in the tri county area has made numerous attempts to assist these people and they flat out refuse. There was even a rent free apartment set up for them, which they refused. The police do not arrest them for one simple reason…the only charges that could possibly be placed against them will not stick. They will not stick because the State’s Attorney has explicitly told the police department that they will not prosecute them for those charges. It also doesn’t help that they spend their time on private property and the property owner’s have said they will not prosecute for trespassing. And I can’t even understand why you would want to get the police involved when there is so many more pressing issues in this town that need to be addressed that some stubborn women on a corner.
These subjects do not meet the qualifications to be committed to a mental health facility under an emergency petition. The police can’t just swoop in and put them on the 5th floor of Harford because people don’t think what they are doing is right or healthy…trust me, if that were the case Richie, I would have petitioned months ago for you to be there.
You need to let the agencies that are working on a solution for this problem do what they need to do. The system does not work overnight, and as you have stated in one of your previous rants – if you like the fact that tanks aren’t rolling down your street and the gestapo isn’t beating down your door, then breathe…relax…and let the system work.
You think just because something doesn’t go the way you think it does, that everyone must hear your blathering and bow to your will…doesn’t work that way.
And if your biggest complaint is the “eyesore” they create…how about that big old boat I saw recently parked in your yard (in violation of city ordinances). But I guess your yard is the only place for you to park it since your glowing personality has gotten you banned from every other marina in town…
Greeting’s richie’ It would appear you are in trouble again. well at least you made and appearance at the council meeting. no doubt with the thought of being removed. you’ saved them the trouble. then there this is this matter of a boat in your lawn…….
well rathernot say
…since the mayor is very combative with me I felt that it would be better to throw the question at him and let him address the city in general…for your info I knew his response from the van outside the city hall.
If I had stayed around he would have been answering me…and hes not real good with me….so I let him account to the citizens in general.
Futher rather……and as indicated here over and over…and in my comment to the mayor…the humain entry into the system with a goal of getting them the help they desperetly need is the main goal….the fact that it will improve the community in general is also a plus.
Thirdly…the boat doesnt break any ordinances…so stfu…as your ilk likes to spew…
Fourth…if it wasnt for the fact that Dougherty is ass deep into this lie he promoted in referance to me and the marina…this would have all been settled a long time ago….the problem he has is that he will appear to be wrong if he allows me into the marina…and his big fat ego cripples his judgement.
Fifth….already there is a allowing my boat into the marina…their way of making it go away…but its not good enough for me….he will have to endure the truth for me to settle.
Sixth…you have no clue what your talking about
Seventh….even when that boat moves another will take its place…there will always be a boat in MY drive way…..notice the word “MY”, as opposed to his…the bassis for Doughertys bizzarr behavior.
As usial your ilk spews garbage…but what the hell….
So smarty…tell the readers what ordinance the boat is breaking…by letter and verse…or shut yout pie hole.
Go Dagger
Hey vet…
just another mindless cheerleader.
Rather not will not cite any ordinance because there is none.
Go Dagger.
it’s my understanding,people who are considered ” normal” attempt at least to try and live any where but a street corner. I would suggest & evaluation for the states attorney. or does he live on a street corner too.as far as all this rhetoric I don’t believe the elected council is a bit concerend about the ”lady’s” on the corner.
I may be there shortly’ my self. I do expect the same respect the” lady’s” are receiving. no aggravation from the police etc. one exception I do except hand out’s. no mc donald’s please.
I do think it would be interesting’ to contact and investigative reporter just too see who squrims.
Well it goes to show how much people around here really to pay attention, seeing as the Record did a very in depth interview with both of these subjects…not really all that long ago.
I also find it amusing that this topic is regarding the ladies on the corner, yet you go on for a half a page about one comment I made regarding your boat…(by the way I was referring to City Ordinance § 140-4, which any decent Code Enforcement could certainly apply to the situation I’m referring to, but I digress)
Trust me, I am not a mindless cheerleader. Many of the things done in this city I am vehemently (to save you the trouble of breaking out your dictionary. Vehemently: expressing with a strong or forceful attitude) opposed to. Specifically the treatment of the owners and the patrons of the Billiard’s Club…but that’s a topic for another conversation.
I’m not sure if maybe someone needs to revert to German or Spanish or Brooklynese to get you to understand, but maybe if I talk loudly, like you, you’ll actually hear me.
ALMOST EVERY AVENUE HAS BEEN PURSUED TO GET THESE PEOPLE HELP. SOCIAL SERVICES, LOCAL CHURCHES, DISTANT CHURCHES, PRIVATE RESIDENTS, MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS, FEDERAL AID PROGRAMS. THEY CAN NOT BE FORCED TO ACCEPT THE HELP.
I would like to force you to take classes in courtesy, couth and how to be a decent human being. But I can’t, even though it is obvious you desperately need them. Just like we can’t force what we think is right on these ladies, I can’t force common human decency on you.
Now of course, the next step is force. Let’s get physical and remove them from our sight. Well, if you want to go to the commissioner and press charges on them for loitering (which is only a city ordinance, and a bad one at that according to our State’s Attorney), you go boy. But all that is going to happen is they will be served a summons and then fail to go to court. And that is only if the State’s Attorney doesn’t just nolle pros the case before it gets to that point. How can you expect the police (and the city for that manner) to get involved when they have been rendered legally impotent. The State’s Attorney has been consulted numerous times by the Police Department and over and over again, the result is the same. You can try to arrest them, but we won’t prosecute it.
So I lay this at your feet. Give me a solution. A realistic, legal solution. Something that hasn’t already been tried. And I’ll make you a deal. If you can provide me with something logical, feasible and humane…then I will never again present myself as the thorn in your side. Somehow I don’t see that happening, but I will still off the possibility.
Rather …you just don’t..nor will you ever….get it!
Go Dagger
Richie
I beg of you…help me to get it!!! You rant and rave that nothing is being done about the problem, yet when an explanation is given of what has been done and why you aren’t seeing visible results, you clam up. Who’s not getting what?
I agree…but the prejudice shown against me has stopped me from commenting…on the treatment of the billards club…..as patently unfair…akin to the treatment of me…a railroading..unamerican….but you….Rathernot…show a concern and a non concern…rather curious. I guess it depends on who you are to get fair treatment or consideration.
Lets open a thread on that issue if we want to discuss it as adults…this thread is for the ladies….in need of help.
The ladies help offered is limited to asking them if they WANT help. They are menatly ill and will say no…under sycotropic drugs and with intensive counsiling they may actually be nice productive people. I spent the day at a mental health facility in new york. Its run by a church and caters to mentaly I’ll folks who abuse drugs and has both in and out patient care. The common thread is that the mentally stressed do not want help and drop off meds after feeling good for a while as the meds affect them and in a state of mind thats reality based they feel the temptation to stop their drugs because of the side affects and they dont know they digress to the depths of the illness. These ladies just need a kick start towards reality….thats through the courts….not the goddam DOT. Do they not deserve this chance that to this day they have not been afforded? Even rathernot cannot be this cold blooded.
Rather not…you are chastized by me for you childish boat comments…why would you…in a thread about mental illness…cite a boat??
Tell ya what…thats for another thread…and we can have a trial….but here is for the ladies.
Go Dagger !
Ps…it was watching the billard club being beaten up on that made me walk in and raise a little hell…to send a signal that you wont get hit by lightning if you comment.
Just thrown out of the marina.!!!
Go Dagger
What visible results are you speaking of?????
They have been in the same spot for three years.
Are you saying waynes comments are visible results?
Go Dagger.
There has been no attempt to involuntary move them to a situation where a judge or professional can take a look at them.
It may be such a small thing that brings them back to earth…isnt it worth a try!
Go Dagger !
§ 140-4. Storage of junk, motor vehicles, appliances and furniture.
It shall be unlawful for any owner, occupant, lessor, lessee, tenant and/or person, firm or corporation in control of any lot, lots, parcels or tracts of land within the City to permit any junk, trash, refuse, debris, garbage, or rubbish; abandoned or inoperable bicycles, boats, boat trailers, mopeds or motor vehicles; or abandoned appliances, equipment or furniture to remain on any such lot, lots, parcels or tracts of land if such materials or items are dangerous or detrimental to the adjoining properties or the public health and safety and welfare of the citizens of the City or are the nesting place of vermin
ok…what abandoned boat is there that is a nesting place for vermen
try again…
Go dagger!
That boat is registered with the dnr…has insurance…and is fully functional…and is pretty goddam fast…unlike many of the wrecks in the marina especialy house boats…
Go Dagger
The key word is inoperable……
Back to the ladies…
What can we do….I am putting a petition some have suggested together. This is not pass the buck time.
Go Dagger !
the record’ like the aegis is a small time paper. it does not carry any weight. they are commonly used for weed control. interesting city ordnance pertaining to a boat. now where is the one pertaining too ”vagrancy” blocking a side walk etc.
maybe we should ”advertise” the ”lady’s” as and attraction. welcome to Haver de grace’ home of two lady’s who live on the ”street”. no admission fee’s. may be we could get the mayor to join them.and pictures taken.
Well Richie apparently likes to take pictures, so why not let him set up a stand and sell the pictures – $5 a pop.
As far as the Record’s readership…mostly those who live in this area, which would be the prime audience to address an issue that effect the people who live in this area!!! I really doubt an article in the New York Times would get anything done.
And once again, it doesn’t matter what the ordinances say regarding these ladies, the police can write the citations all day long…in fact they will most likely have to arrest them, because the ladies will refuse to sign the citations. But when it goes to court, NOTHING WILL HAPPEN. They will be released and be right back out on their corner, with even more signs complaining about their unfair treatment. And if you pay attention, they don’t block the sidewalk. Every time the police are called regarding them, they are not blocking the sidewalk.
I will also say this…no judge will order them to be held on a mental health evaluation. They are not a danger to themselves or others. Yes what they are doing isn’t healthy, but they do not pose an immediate threat. And even if you could find a judge to issue an order, it is only good for a 48 hour commitment…which would put them right back on the street.
Basically the point I am trying to make is that this is not a problem that is going to be solved overnight. These ladies have been in Havre de Grace for the past 6 years. YES 6 years. And since their arrival here from the Aberdeen area, they have been offered help and banned from property after property. Which has only resulted in their being forced onto a little corner of land that no one really has much jurisdiction over. And there they will stay until they can be convinced that they need help. I will say I have seen evidence of some things working. Recently a church van pulled up to their corner and the ladies were seen talking and taking items. Maybe that is a start. But demanding something be done with them right away…it’s not going to work. It’s only going to make the situation worse. Patience is the true virtue in this situation.
Oh and Richie…I could honestly care less about your boat. I just find it amusing to watch you rant and rave about piddly little things. I didn’t even read through that ordinance…I just searched for one that had to do with boats.
Keep the thing in your yard…better yet…by god I’ve got it!!!!
LET’S MOVE THE LADIES FROM THE CORNER INTO YOUR BOAT!!!!!
If it’s going to just sit there, get some use out of it….
(That ought to really get him going…)
Rathernot just to inform you if a judge orders a mental evaluation it is 72 hours and if it is done on a Fri then it doesn’t include Sat or Sun which would be an additional 48 hrs on top of the 72. Like you said it wont be solved over night but then a gain if we the tax payers get envolved it will get done quicker then the city doing it because as you pointed out they have been dealing with this for six years, and if you read all here they are a threat to them selves and others it was posted here that they where not only blocking the side walk causing people to step into the street which on that coner is highly dangerous they themselves were standing in the street blocking one lane of traffic and an HDG cop drove right past and didnt even stop and tell them to get out of the street. As emt 9091 stated we just want to basicly save their lives before they actualy do need an Ambulance or a funeral home. The city has had 6 years thats at least 2 mayors and very little has been accomplished except them being pushed around the city, all we are trying to do is push the city to look harder at the matter, it was very obvious to DSS that what they were doing was wrong when they took the child at That time they DSS should have taken them into cusdity for child neglect and got them the help then.
very well said fire fighter. it’s apparent nothing is being done or will be done if it require’s and effort from the elected officials. there concern is calming richiec from makeing a disturbance.
which in turn disturb’s there peace & quiet. they are a hazard to them self’s as well as passer by’s. I think a court order would do nicely. I would’nt place to much faith in department of social services.
oh my god, you had to STEP AROUND them? are you serious?? arrest them immediately! dude, they stand next to a parking lot–i seriously doubt that someone is going to be hit walking in the street. has it happened in the last 6 years? how many injuries, deaths, people beaten by ragged umbrellas?
i don’t see how they are a threat to themselves and others. besides one alleged incident of “white bitch” namecalling (as offensive as many a RichieC post)–what are we really looking at here? that they make the city look bad? that they make you uncomfortable?
it’s been said many times: if you leave them alone, they don’t bother you. i haven’t heard one thing about them hurting anyone. unfortunately, that’s the basis for emergency mental evaluation in maryland:
Conditions necessary for emergency treatment/observation:
§ 10-623(b) probable cause that individual has shown symptoms of mental illness and that there appears to be a clear and imminent danger of bodily harm to self or others.
just be honest about it like some have been–don’t pretend like you are trying to do them a favor. you don’t want to have to look at them. as far as i’m concerned it’s the same as the stupid boat: your neighbors don’t want to look at it, they’re sure that your breaking some sort of ordinance or other, and until they can pin you on it, they have to be annoyed as they pass everyday.
firefighter, your english teacher should be taken into “cusdity.”
vet–your punctuation is coming along man. i only had to read your post 2 times to understand it. keep it up.
overdramatization what rock did you crawl out from under? get with the program there apparently crazy. maybe should read this 3 time’s so you will understand.
i realize that their behavior is off. duh. but my point is that they are not a “threat” as some have said. and that being said, i reiterate (with extra emphasis, so you only have to read it once):
Conditions necessary for emergency treatment/observation:
§ 10-623(b) probable cause that individual has shown symptoms of mental illness AND THAT THERE APPEARS TO BE A CLEAR AND IMMINENT DANGER TO BODILY HARM TO SELF OR OTHERS.
All this finger pointing motivated me to read up on what Harford County as a whole is doing to take care of its homeless as mandated at all levels of law. Found the following report (http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/services/community/doc/577.pdf) on the Harford County Dept of Community Services – Community Development web site. Below are some select statements from 2006 Harford County Community Survey of Services page 72 through 76 — very interesting the giant section about HDG.
In reading all this, here’s my current list of questions a) Are these women being treated differently than all the other homeless in the city/county and, if so, why? b) Has the HDG PHA Board achieved any real results or improvements toward overcoming their current “troubled” status? c) Which elected officials within HDG appointed the board and can be congratulated for it’s successes to date (or conversely…)? d) Since all homeless cases are unique what is HDG’s documented policy for bringing all public and private charity resources within the city and county together to coodinate the care of homeless individuals and families to expedite thier return to self-sufficiency and when was the last time it was explained / reviewed with police and other public servants of the city to ensure its adequacy?
===============from the report ==================
Havre de Grace Public Housing Authority
The Havre de Grace Housing Authority is one agency in Harford County that offers a public housing program, along with Harford County’s Housing Agency. Residents can make an application for Public Housing either at the Havre de Grace Housing Authority or at the Harford County’s Housing Agency.
91.500 (b)(4): The City of Havre de Grace is currently working with the Havre de Grace PHA to work towards improving its “troubled” status. Harford County Government has no jurisdiction over the troubled Havre de Grace PHA because the PHA is located within the City of Havre de Grace’s jurisdiction. The City of Havre de Grace Public Housing Authority has been designated as a troubled PHA since 11/14/03. A site visit and meeting with the Board of Directors was held and an amended MOU (memorandum of understanding) was prepared. The Havre de Grace Public Housing Authority is an independent agency run by the Board of Directors. It is currently working to get out of the “troubled status” and now has full control over their own money. Recently, the Housing Authority
sent out an RFP to developers to see if they can both update and expand the Housing Authority units. Part of the RFP included a proposal for bringing the existing units up to code and adding additional units to be sold as affordable housing and expanding to an additional 30 to 40 units of senior housing.
91.205 Housing Needs:
Based on the previous analysis Harford County has identified the following issues:
– Cost burden for female head of households
– Gaps in the number of affordable units for those renter populations less than or equal to 30% of the area median income and greater than 80% of the area median income.
– Gaps in the number of affordable units for the owner populations greater than 80% of the area median income.
– There are 7,584 substandard housing units in Harford County that is in need of repairs.
Currently, Harford County has 28 overnight shelter beds available year round to the general population and 28 emergency shelter beds available for victims of domestic violence. Harford County provides additional hotel bednight during periods of freezing weather. Additionally, there are currently 62 transitional shelter beds. In fiscal year 2006, 26,627 shelter bed nights were provided to approximately 632 different people in Harford County. As part of the Continuum of Care- Housing Gap Analysis Chart, Table 1A shows an unmet need or gap of 49
individuals and -8 persons in families with children.
There squatters & vagrant’s.that is illegal.now if they were proven to be ”Crazy” there would be know need for charges to be filed. what we have is a hell of mess on a public street.
we might get’ Richiec to donate his boat for them to live in. which in turn would make it and ”ark” & the town fathers would bless him for his kindness & takeing this mess off of there hand’s because it’s apparent they don’t want any part of it.
Vet…is it my imigination or have the new names appeared…posing straw man arguments…as was done when the marina mafia and related threads were on going?
Vet..Ive said it befor…they should move them in with the rest of the HdG homless….to the marina…where they could be given city jobs and abandoned sailboats to live on.
Go Dagger !
Forest hill…these people are unique….they choose to be where they are. They have resources….they are not willing to leave the corner. They are not typical homeless.
The only option when they wont act rationaly is to get them into the system. The way they are living is unsanitary…unhealthy…hurts property values…and doesnt help them deal with any legitimate greivance they might have.
And yes they are blocking the sidewalk….a minor technicility that could result in futher action that could ultimitly help them…verses letting them stand there until they tip over dead.
I just arrived home and they are now barefooted…blocking ostego street. Im waiting for Doughertys DPW truck to show up …two big guys get out…escorted by police…throw their crap in the back and haul it away…mabey inciting an assult…Dougherty…what a guy !
Go Dagger !
Rather…so your admittedley just an a**wipe…ok fair enough. But ill bet you did read it and you were just proven wrong…or mabey you asked Wayne for the ord…and he didnt read it…as usial.
DB
ROCK…..sleeping within feet of a busy intersection…with the possibility of errant cars running them over is clear and present danger to them.
Go dagger
such
…my neighbors are sweethearts and more of them than me keep large boats in their yards….the only problem and trouble maker on this block is sad sack dougherty…and my boat being here is not an issue except to his cheerleaders. No one on the block cares…rather is just an admitted shit stirrer…cheerleader…citing ordinances that dont exist…stupid actions from a stupid person.
now such
…are you going to make me show you the dozens of times that i have said “it looks like hell”…..but why do it in a inhumain way…and is there not legitimaticey to wanting a good end to the story? Do you find that the two cant exist?
Go Dagger.
Richiec if they have and income. that can be proven’ our tax money known as a public assistance check. which is not likely since a post office box is illegal as and address. or any other source of income. there not vagrant’s under maryland law.
but there squatters & a public
Richiec are you saying’ the ”mayor” found his family jewel’s and removed there trash from the street?
No vet…he stated that he was going to pass the buck to the state and get them to do it. see the update to the artical…its explained there.
Go Dagger !
such over dramatization, Before you take my English teacher into custody maybe you should proof read what you wrote then use both spell check and grammar check. For one thing when you begin a sentence it starts with a capital letter not a lower case letter. Second God is always spelled as I have spelled it with a capital G. Like Vietnam vet said maybe you should read this three times no make it four times, starting with the first comment all the way to the last. Then if you still don’t understand walk right up to them get a good smell and try to talk to them if you can. As for the person that they called a white devil bitch that was a Law Enforcement Officer who was performing their duty at the time, they also spit at her.
And Vietnam vet,
Thank you and welcome home brother.
Rather Not Say,
Do you have something to hide? Or just rather not say? You talk a lot of smack about things and people and YOURATHERNOTSAY!
You stated “you need to let the agencies that are working on a solution for this problem do what they need to do. The system does not work overnight”
How many OVERNIGHTS do we need to give them? They have been around for years not days! I think we have given them enough time to stand around stinking up our town, being rude to people and being an eyesore. People worry about a boat that sits in a PRIVATE driveway that is legal, but you don’t mind vagrant’s standing around then you all have a problem!
As for people being hit on Rt. 40 yes they do as I have been on calls that we have picked up what was left of the person. So yes people do get killed on that road. No one should have to walk around them, they should move so people can walk past, but maybe that is just me having manners and no mental illness and thinking that maybe I should step aside and let the person pass. NOT THAT HARD!!!
ANYONE that would let them take their child away from them has some kind of illness. Why would anyone stay on the streets with their MENTALLY ILL Mother and let the state take their son away from them. I know my mother means the world to me, but I think that I would have went with my son. Why did they keep the son on the streets with them and out of school? I guess there is no mental Illness in that family! Can’t you all see that they need help?
Have you ever went in to Weis after they were in the store? They placed all the dirty bags up front by the counter and would go in the restroom and you couldn’t even breath after they left it. I went in turned around and left the store. They had the WHOLE store stunk up. To me that is not healthy at all. Who wants to wear the same clothes day after day in the heat and NEVER shower? AGAIN DO YOU SEE MENTAL ILLNESS IN THIS PICTURE? They need to be placed where they can get the correct help and RX so they can live a better life and it is not the life on a street corner PICKING ZITS off the others face. I have seen that twice and almost tossed my cookies. They can go under the bridges with the other homeless people that don’t bother anyone! You know the ones that would love help, but can’t get it. I guess they need to stand on the corners to get a room for a night or an offer to live free for a year. Why can they get help, but the ones that want and need it can’t??
I think they do it for attention. I don’t know anyone that has been mean to them, but as soon as you try and talk to them they turn mean and nasty. They talk to other Afro Americans, but not to very many white people. Do you see something wrong with that picture.
I have worked with mentally ill patients and I know what they look like and how they act and I see it all in them. So I’m just not talking like I think I know what it looks like, I DO KNOW! We have a nice little town and it would be nice for people to drive around to not have to look at them. They have been run off from all the places from Weis down to Joey’s. Who wants to go to any of the food places around and have to look and smell them before or after you eat. I know I don’t and will not. I say take the bags place them on a bus and send them back to where they started from. Maybe the one can get her child back, or at least visit the child I would think that he misses his mother and wonders why she is not around. How would you like to be her son and grow up and learn that she chose to stand and live on the streets then to be in a home with him???? Would be hard to stomach for that boy. He is the one I feel sorry for, but at least he has a roof over his head.
Is pretty bad when you can sit and read the things we write and then talk about our grammer. Maybe you should go stand on the corner with the bag women and teach them a few things. Let me give you a lesson on why people may not use proper grammer.
Dyslexia: is a condition in which an improper functioning of the brain causes a person to have difficulty recognizing and processing written or spoken words. People with dyslexia typically have trouble with reading and writing.
Not everyone can be perfect, but you can try. We were talking about helping people get help so they are safe and people around them are also safe not grammer or boats.
Talk to firefighterkrs once and you will see that he is a very intelligent person and can tell you just about ANYTHING you want to know. You can address him as SGT. Firefighterkrs!
Maybe someday in the near future they will get the women the help they need and get them off the streets. I do hope it is soon! At one time I felt sorry for them, but now that I know the whole story I don’t feel sorry for them, I feel sorry for the ones that have to look at them everyday. I would rather look at the boat!
Thank you’Firefighterkrs. I wonder how long it’s going to take for people to under stand there human’s in need. apparently lacking the ability to make proper decisions for them self’s.
Semper- fi.
established:
they’re crazy.
they look terrible.
they stink.
they won’t accept help on their own.
they are nasty when approached.
i think most people agree on those issues at least. so dougherty passes the buck. we all care enough to be commenting here. what can we as citizens do together (besides a petition) to get them help and get them off the street? there has to be a better way than throwing them in jail, in my opinion. so let’s discuss real solutions.
Jail is not the desired result…
The city has injuctive releif it can ask a judge for….it can be done by making a reason to get them in front of a judge…such as not answering a summons…or by simply having the city atty ask for releif from the court…god knows he has the time…hes spending an hour a day speaking in circular arguments with me.
Go Dagger !
Unbelievable. All of you unbelievable. One sentence about a boat, and we now have 6 comments ALL ABOUT THE DAMN BOAT! WHO CARES ABOUT THE BOAT! THE BOAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!!!!
And as far as grammar and spelling, it has nothing to do with dyslexia or any other disability. It’s common courtesy. Which, as I’ve said before, RichieC lacks. Dyslexia doesn’t keep you from using the shift key. It also doesn’t keep you from using a spell check.
And once again, I have never once said these people are not mentally ill. If you would take the time to read my well organized, topically oriented and grammatically correct comments, you would understand that. I am very well aware that they are ill. What I am trying to tell you is this: The State of Maryland has very specific guidelines as to what constitutes a mental illness that is severe enough to warrant an involuntary commitment. THESE PEOPLE DO NOT MEET THESE QUALIFICATIONS YET. And you can argue until you are blue in the face as to what laws they are breaking, and you are probably right. BUT IT DOESN’T MEAN A DAMN THING IF THE COURTS WILL NOT FOLLOW THROUGH.
You people keep accusing the city government of passing the buck. It’s not passing the damn buck. They have been trying to address this issue for 6 years with no results. That is one of the reasons the son was taken by Social Services…it was their hope that when the son was taken, that they would finally accept help. It didn’t work. Nothing has worked. So now the city is trying to be creative to get something done. And because these ladies have parked themselves on State property, it’s time to see what solutions the State may have.
You know, I love this site for all the news and information contained. But some of the people who frequent here…man…makes you just hang you head.
And no Richie he doesn’t have time. Whatever free time he might have from running the City is spent being berated by you.
Firefighter cin…well said…well said….to the point…and truthfull..
Its good to see some of our BEST and our FINAST speaking out…..! !
Go Dagger !
And here is another thought…bitching about the problem is not going to solve it. And I have challenged Richie to provide a realistic, feasible and humane solution to this problem, and have yet to hear a response.
Though he has gone on and on about my boat comment…
Hear what you want and only answer what you want…works find for Richie, but don’t let anyone else do it.
Follow this closley
“”RatherNotSay on August 22nd, 2008 9:55 am
And no Richie he doesn’t have time. Whatever free time he might have from running the City is spent being berated by you.””..
.””LET’S MOVE THE LADIES FROM THE CORNER INTO YOUR BOAT!!!!!
If it’s going to just sit there, get some use out of i.””””….
…”””And if your biggest complaint is the “eyesore” they create…how about that big old boat I saw recently parked in your yard (in violation of city ordinances). But I guess your yard is the only place for you to park it since your glowing personality has gotten you banned from every other marina in town…””” “”Trust me, I am not a mindless cheerleader. Many of the things done in this city I am vehemently (to save you the trouble of breaking out your dictionary. Vehemently: expressing with a strong or forceful attitude) opposed to”””
These comments in a thread about what to do with a community problem has been caustic and cleverly reacted to by RATHERNOTSAY, the straw man arguments, the demonization and villification, the deflecting of the issue with untruths and lies (the boat ordinance), the attempting to indict in the speakers in public opionion, the attempt to marginalize the speaker, the attempts at humiliating or embarrising the speakers …..are right out of the Herman Goebbels Nazi propaganda handbook given to local propoganda meisters before ww2 and during the rise of the Nazi party (yea there was a great crew).. This was designed for use by politicians and officials trying to win a point and the last time we saw this in the dagger..with RATHERNOTS INSIDE INFO was during the prime of the MARINA MAFIA debate at which time I said I beleived they were HdG govt insiders by virtue of the comments and info they had. Not to mention the attacks for off subject reasons of other dagger posters in this thread.
The truth is that RATHER is upset that somthing is being discussed when he doesnt want it discussed…you can see the anger that hes not getting his way…ANGER THAT THE PROPOGANDA MACHINE DOESNT WORK…and thats a good thing.
This is truly scary and refreshing at the same time!
Now back on subject.
Go Dagger !
Rather…
I think I have said it many times
Go dagger!
Rathernotsay. take’s these issue’s personally. if you’ find the issue’s so disdainfull’ I would suggest just stop reading it. we the people are not excuseing the city of anything. except there self centered need’s. any body for golf today ?
For the court’s to follow thru some body’ has to get off there’ A–S’S and realize there is a problem !
as for Richiec he’s protecting his civil right’s. as he said the Haver de grace mafia ran him out of the marina. we should move our homeless ” citizens” to the park. bet there day’s will be numbered.
Semper- fi.
Rather not say has made an interesting comment…..In one comment he responds to my stating “That the city atty has the time on his hands to get this problem solved”…and RATHERNOT replies “HES TO BUSY RUNNING THE CITY”.
Why is the city atty running the city? If thats the case…what is our mayor doing if Ishak is running the city. Is our mayou a willing puppett? Who elected Ishak…the atty for Alan Fair’s BHC realty.
Is BHC realty running this city?…Is alan fair running it behind the scenes…? Who knows the answers…evidently RATHERNOTSAY does !
Ok lets get back on topic…tha Invisible women and the need to get then in the system…so a judge can nudge them back to reality by asking for a evaluation…which may result in counseling, rx, and a better life…and a better community.
Go Dagger !
Thank you vet for the kind words of understanding and support.
Go Dagger
Rather…one last thing that made me laugh…
Rathernotsay said
“Unbelievable. All of you unbelievable. One sentence about a boat, and we now have 6 comments ALL ABOUT THE DAMN BOAT! WHO CARES ABOUT THE BOAT! THE BOAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!!!! ”
In you comment a few back you finally admitted it…Its not about boats
During the marina mafia arguments….the boats were used to deflect from the civil rights and discrimination issues…now you complain !
Go Dagger!
Richiec we are talking ” clout” when we speak’ of BCH. old money very good possibility there running the show behind the scene’s. it’s rumored Art helton is the MAN in aberdeen.
might be but he brought improvement when he came. does AJ own any boat’s?
Clout may be exactly whats at hand here….if he did bring improvement thats great…but do we have to appoint him king for life…if thats the case?
Remember that was just a posed question based upon where RATHERNOTSAY as going with his comments.
Go Dagger !
Still waiting for your suggestion for a solution! All I’m hearing is moaning, arguing and finger pointing.
Rather you not looking very hard…the solution we are asking for has been stated by many over and over….
Go Dagger !
The solution is apparent. contact a new’s media from baltimore & and the tired blood in Haver de grace. might just find some energy to remove the do not disturb sign’s from there office door’s.
I suspect in retaliation. Richiec will be subject to there anger.
Vet….their anger has become farsical at this point….
vet you got the idea…mabey…mabey
Go Dagger !
Rather not I have many comments for you first YOU ARE THE ONE THAT FIRST BROUGHT UP THE BOAT so take your punishment about your comment. Second if you think that you are so smart that miss spelling and grammar are not effected by Dyslexia you are 100% wrong.
Dyslexia is considered to be a learning disability. It manifests primarily as a difficulty with written language, particularly with reading and spelling. It is separate and distinct from reading difficulties resulting from other causes, such as a non-neurological deficiency with vision or hearing, or from poor or inadequate reading instruction.[1] Evidence also suggests that dyslexia results from differences in how the brain processes written and/or spoken language. Although dyslexia is allegedly the result of a neurological difference, it is not an intellectual disability. Dyslexia occurs at all levels of intelligence.[2]
You see I know all about Dyslexia Because I have it, as did Albert Einstein, so before you or any one comments about how someone types in here you need to think.
You must be the city’s atty because you sure do have a lot of law knowledge, but if you did you would know that you don’t need a judge to issue an emergency mental health evaluation if our law enforcement would do their job they can with the assistance of the ambulance take both of them to HMH’s for this evaluation. All it takes is someone calling them and them actually doing something other than send a car to the person that called them to tell the tax paying citizen that the atty said we cant do anything. So there is the city answer and that is why nothing is getting done. At least 2 Mayors and not a thing accomplished.
So where is your evidence of the city trying to do anything except move them from various locations in the city so everyone can at least see these two on a corner nears them? Please that is not try to solve anything.
AS ALL OF US HAVE TOLD YOU BEFORE THE PATITION IS TO SHOW THE CITY THAT WE ARE TIRED OF THIER LAZYNESS AND GETTING PAID TO NOT DO THE JOB THEY WHERE PUT THERE TO DO, AND THE ULTIMITE GOAL IS TO GET THE WOMEN INTO A TREATMENT CENTER NOT A JAIL.
Good morning…64 degrees in Havre de Grace…richiec is still not allowed near the marina..rathernotsay is stil blibbering the city administrations propaganda . The ladies spent fri nite on the corner and the corner is blocked.
Go Dagger !
Rather….admitt it…your part of the administration…..trying to steer people of good concious away from commention their feelings on an issue.
Just tell us who you are instead of hiding behind a screen name…you seem to have the inside line…the true info on our govt…..the truth straite from the king.
Rathernotsay..since you are so versed in the inner workings of our city rulership…tell the good readers what actual proof besides sniping as you like to do , exists in the reasoning to not renew my lease….in fact they wont even admitt at this time that they didnt renew it…they like the phrase…”we didnt offer it”…but the published city policey states”all lease holders will have their leases automaticly renewed”…hence it was a throwing out of the marina on nothing but RATHERNOTSAY ish propoganda and unproven allegations…
Rathernot say…give us some facts ! Not horsecrap….yuou wonder why dougherty get shabooed when I enter a room…its cause I am BULLSHIT REPELLANT…get over it man…that marina stuff was a one trick poney…everyone knows what he did…and you cheerlead.
Rathernot…you seem to think people are stupid and void of concious…some are and although you may be…most arnt and will quitley do what is right given the chance…..Rather you have a lot to learn.
Go Dagger
Tadays project…make petition and dont forget to use spell checker.
firefighterkrs – first off, my comments regarding RichieC and his lack of courtesy were directed to him, not anyone else. I am very familiar with dyslexia, seeing as it runs in my family. My comments to RichieC have nothing to do with that disability. It has to do with his lack of courtesy and respect for anyone who doesn’t agree with him. And anyone who doubts that need only hear him speak to have it confirmed.
Secondly:
“You must be the city’s atty because you sure do have a lot of law knowledge” – you don’t have to be an attorney to have knowledge of the law, just a little bit of curiosity, time to study and the willingness to ask. AND I AM NOT THE CITY ATTNY. ,
“but if you did you would know that you don’t need a judge to issue an emergency mental health evaluation if our law enforcement would do their job” first, let me tell you that a judge has much more leeway in issuing and emergency petition that law enforcement, and I am also offended at the insinuation that the police aren’t doing their job. The police are basically handcuffed as far as their response. The person in question must make statements or actions IN THE OFFICER’S PRESENCE that show they are in the mindset to harm themselves or others.
“they can with the assistance of the ambulance take both of them to HMH’s for this evaluation.” THIS IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG. I know for a fact that the ambulance in Havre de Grace will not transport a person just for a mental illness. They must be sick or injured for the transport to occur, so do a little research before spouting off. The ambulance is there for true emergencies, not just to provide a means of transport for an eyesore.
“All it takes is someone calling them and them actually doing something other than send a car to the person” Which if you check the police department records (and I have inquired) the officer’s respond to their location all the time, and usually find that they are not in violation.
“that called them to tell the tax paying citizen that the atty said we cant do anything.:” and if the police didn’t make contact with the caller, you all would be on here bitching that you aren’t receiving the attention you deserve.
“So there is the city answer and that is why nothing is getting done.” Such bull
“At least 2 Mayors and not a thing accomplished.” A mayors job is to run the city, not concentrate on one minor problem because you people don’t want to look at it anymore. And yet, even with that in mind, both of the previous mayors have taken the time to at least attempt to address the issue…but of course you don’t see that, you just don’t see the results you want, so it’s time to bitch.
RICHIEC –
No you haven’t given me a good answer. That is why were are still here arguing. Take the time to articulate a reasonable, feasible, viable solution to solving this problem that will not harm those involved, and as I have said before, I will eat my words. I will apologize and close my mouth.
RichieC –
I am not part of the city, have no “inside information” on you marina issue, and frankly COULD NOT CARE LESS.
ARE YOU THAT DENSE!!!!! THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT THE HOMELESS WOMAN AND WORKING ON A SOLUTION FOR THE SITUATION. I MENTIONED YOUR BOAT ONCE, JOKINGLY, TO PROVE A POINT. You have responded to that over and over and over and over and basically beat the dead horse into glue, yet you have YET TO RESPOND to the topic at hand.
And I have my reasons for not revealing my identity…mainly that I (nor my family) do not wish to be accosted in the 7-11 and screamed at for 30 minutes by you or those like you. (and don’t even deny doing it, I’ve spoken to several witnesses).
Richiec it’s apparent. rather has connection’s to the city’ he has spoken to several ”witness’s” in response to your ”behaviour” and has no desire to accept’ any further imbarrassment’ for the city’s in ability to remove the ”lady’s”.
to a more comfortable station in life. he certainly. seem’s to think you would know him in a public place. I think it’s apparent Haver de grace is in big trouble if the mayor can’t ”handle” to little
old ”lady’s. best to start a petition to remove the mayor & council. apparently there useless.
You people don’t get it. I have explained it over and over again. What exactly would you like the mayor or the city or the police to do?!?! All of the options available have been (or are currently being) pursued without positive results.
Should we just sweep them up and ship them off somewhere else? Because you bitch about how bad things are (that comment was dripping with sarcasm by the way) now, imagine how bad they will be if this situation isn’t handled correctly and the city is slapped with a civil rights lawsuit (which has already been threatened if this is not handled correctly). Then the city will be spending all their efforts and money on handling that suit.
Now lets pursue this a little farther…say the city just sweeps them up and carts them off. The city gets sued. Now they can’t afford to cover the basic needs of the city. So, now they disband the police department and ask the Sheriff’s office to cover law enforcement for the city. Now you have jeopardized the entire population by decreasing law enforcement presence (and even worse…RichieC will have no one to complain to!!!) Now that of course is a doomsday scenario, but it is a possibility especially if one practices knee jerk government as you all are supporting.
I don’t see any ”reason” to get up set rather. just too guy’s discussing two little ole ”lady” s on a corner. that highly’ educated people can’t remove. you fit the description of the collage boy’s of the60’s &70’s
Hell no we won’t go.is that you rather? coward’s one and all. I was attached to a marine unit that fought in every major battle in vietnam. inlisted not drafted.
sem-per fi
Rather not say…you have just cited the reasons I was and am concerned about the operations in the marina…the narvell misuse of ada facilities….discussing them got me thrown out. Seems that friendships and persenall grudges DO skew actions by this city…under this administration.
Seems that the argument makes sense as long as you say it…but when RichieC says it…as i have done…you were distracting from the issue along with the other cheerleaders.
Rather not…using an ordinance to get them in front of a Judge and asking at that time “in the interest of justice…we would like a evaluation” is not by any means asking for a lawsuite…..the fear by the administration of a sign saying rosa parks (as exhibited by the mayor stating he asked the NAACP what to do with these two…as if they were the property of the NAACP…) is rediculass and shows a disconnect with the 21st century.
Its real simple….do what you do with the rest of the citizens that you mess with every day…like you did with me…(although you didnt fear the NAACP with me)…get your friends to make phoney statements and lie on petitions..,.or be honest and use the laws on the books and get them in front of a judge. Ether way….do somthing…stop cowering in the corner !!
Go Dagger !
PS.
..to date you have done nothing except ask them to please accept this gift of money or in kind help…their not interested…they are in a mental frenzy waiting for what will never happen. You have not used legal means…injuctive releif…or code enforcement. What your fear is…that because they are black…they will sue you and we will automaticly be guilty…..your fear if also the fear of the administration is scary as hell….is this why we still have problems on giraurd st…in batt city…and elsewhere….the fear of blacks????? Thats outragous and I hope it isnt true. Are you afraid of Sharpton…Jackson…screw them both…I knew Sharpton when he was operating out of a bodego in south Jamacia Queens…the Big Apple Youth League. To many in this city need to get past Bull Rock Parkway a few times a year.
Rather…use the tools….silence is not the solution !
DONT PASS THE BUCK….DONT LIVE IN FEAR !!!!
Go Dagger !!
The incedent in 7-11 lasted no more than a few seconds and was when Dougherty…yes Dougherty…tried to duck speaking to me…I excercised my free speech rights and for just a moment he was out of controll. He was stuck on line waiting to pay and I had a conversation with somone else about his conduct and actions……he was embarrised that he lost controll…Rather…fess up……you know what the truth is…this administration has flushed the rights we have under the constitution..free speech , the right to redress. and Dougherty has tried to run this city like a sherrifs dept station house. This is not acceptable.
Now back to the ladies and i say again…no more bullshit…use the tools that we have.
Go Dagger !
PS …
and im sorry for posting this in peicemeal…The fact is …RATHER….I am feared cause you cant shut me up…nor will you ever…now be a good lad and lets get these people some help…wether they like it or not.
By the way…this AM they were obstructing traffic.
They now are in possesion of both the pizza hut side and the one stop side of ostego…both sides with items on the ground.
Go Dagger !!
Rather
…cant you get the 20 or so people from the marina that you used from penn to sign a statement about against me….to make one against them? You had no problem with that !…..!…..!
Pathetic !
Go Dagger !
Rather…I probably posted it in the dagger…and you tell me not to denie it…what a joke….!!!
Go Dagger
Rather….tell us who you are !…Dont be afraid!
Go Dagger !
VET you asked for the ordinances for loitering. They are complete in post ten of this thread. Here are the highlights.
§ 108-1. Definitions.
As used in this chapter, the following terms shall have the meanings indicated: LAWFUL BUSINESS — The act of conducting, going to or returning from any social, educational, recreational, religious, business or any other activity not prohibited by law.
LOITER — To idle, stand around, tarry, remain or wander on foot, or to idle or tarry without being engaged in lawful business. “Loiter” also means to collect, gather, congregate or be a member of a group or crowd of people who are gathered together in any public place or place open to the public without engaging in any lawful business at such place or, having concluded any lawful business, to remain in such place an undue length of time without further lawful business
A. It shall be unlawful for any person to disobey the direction or order of a uniformed police officer to desist in loitering at, on or near a public place or place open to the public when such loitering is impeding or hindering or may impede or hinder the free passage of pedestrian or vehicular traffic to, from or within such places.
B. It shall be unlawful for any person to disobey the direction or order of a uniformed police officer to desist in loitering at, on or near a public place or a place open to the public when such loitering constitutes a clear and present danger to the public peace.
Go Dagger !
Sorry Richiec. that only apply’s to law abideing citizen’s. just keep up the good work.
Vet – sir, I do not know you, and usually agree with the majority of your opinions on here. And I have nothing but respect for our armed services past and present. My brother in law is currently serving in Iraq. So please take none of my statements as a personal attack towards you, as that was certainly not my intent. And I will be more than happy to have an intelligent discussion/debate on any topic.
Richie – I give up. I’m done. I will leave you to your soapbox to argue with the brick wall. I have countered every argument you have given for this issue, given the reasons why your suggestions won’t work, thrown every valid argument and point at you, and nothing seems to stick. So I will take the high road. I will stop yelling at my brick wall (you) and leave it to the readers to interpret. I’m sick and tired of hearing about the marina, sick of your conspiracy theories, tired of being accused of cheerleading for the city. I’ve come to the realization that you really don’t care about these issues you spout about. You just relish the opportunity to scream, belittle, beat your chest and basically look foolish. If I told you the sky was blue, you would find some way to prove me wrong, accuse me of conspiring with the city to spread the propaganda that the sky being blue is the reason you were kicked out of the marina and then try to organize a petition to have the color blue banned from all city property. You inject yourself into every issue whether it directly effects you or not, and demand that your opinion not only be heard, but adopted by all those that hear it.
Frankly, I’m going to write a petition to have you banned from the city of Havre de Grace. I frankly don’t like looking at you, can’t stand your appearances at Council meetings or to berate people at the 7-11. I don’t agree with you, don’t like the way you look, can’t stand how you carry your belongings around. I think you are mentally ill and am going to demand that you be involuntarily committed for evaluation. – Sounds ridiculous when those statements are aimed at you doesn’t it.
So I am throwing in the towel. Claim your victory, as I’m sure your narrow mind will perceive this as a victory. Beat your chest and spout your theories. I’m done (at least for this topic)
I will leave you with this thought though…
One of the best definitions of insanity I’ve ever heard is this: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Fits you perfectly.
Vet …you devil……(chuckle)
Just for everyone else’s information, the State’s Attorney for Harford County has already made the statement that HE WILL NOT enforce the Loitering statutes/ordinances as they are written in Harford County because technically they are unconstitutional.
So flush another gem from the whack job down the toilet where it belongs.
Rather
…you have simply ignored the suggestions and touted the party line…stop…!
Go Dagger !
There is no chest beating…only a concern.
Vietnam vet i agree with you Rather is one of those 60’s/ 70’s college boys/ girls I am a Just Cause vet, a Shield & Storm vet as well as Enduring Freedom vet like you I lost a lot of buddies so that we could sit here and talk like this but those idiots and the new generation of them just dont and will never understand or see common sence at all .They want everything to be done politcaly correct and handed to them on a silver platter.
Now let us ignore Rather and the other idoits and get back to the matter at hand helping these lady’s and doing what the city doesn’t want to do.
One last comment to Rather you must be the one that convinced the city that HDG did’t need a historic attraction that would help the community, such as the Naval Vessal.
Rather…how many times did I sat injuctive releif………20…30….as with any other nuisance the city atterney can do it…no states atterney needed.
And cummon…….we both know there are ways…to twist things…watch what will happen to the billards club…and look at what happened to me…and thats still an open issue !
So rather…stop trying to knock a square peg into a square hole…if it hasnt been tried than there is no definitive answer.
Go Dagger
whoops …square peg into a round hole…strike square and replace with round…..(Chuckle)
Go Dagger
firefighterkrs – actually, if you read my comments on here at all, I was one of the ones who absolutely berated the city (on this site as a matter of fact) for shooting that idea down. I thought it was a wonderful idea and would have done wonders for this city.
And it isn’t political correctness…you all spout that you are concerned for their wellbeing, well doing this the right way is being concerned for their well being. Now if in actuality you’re just tire of looking at them, then say so. I will at least applaud you for your honesty.
Rathernot said…..
“Frankly, I’m going to write a petition to have you banned from the city of Havre de Grace. I frankly don’t like looking at you, can’t stand your appearances at Council meetings or to berate people at the 7-11. I don’t agree with you, don’t like the way you look, can’t stand how you carry your belongings around. I think you are mentally ill and am going to demand that you be involuntarily committed for evaluation. – Sounds ridiculous when those statements are aimed at you doesn’t it.”
RichieC responds….
…the truth that has already been done to me…the petition…..dont you know what happened in the marina….havnt you been told the truth…thats exactly what happened….exactly..not one bit of difference….Dougherty holds that close like his last breath…dont you know…ask him ! Are you even aware how he runs his government…the documented track record !
In this case we are simply trying to clean up our streets and help some people in the process…not dust them away… !
Rather why dont you join us in making sure all efferts are made……insteading of cheerleading
Go Dagger
Rather
“All it takes is someone calling them and them actually doing something other than send a car to the person” Which if you check the police department records (and I have inquired) the officer’s respond to their location all the time, and usually find that they are not in violation”
You just told us that you are on the inside of the city because to get the info you are talking about you either have to be a law enforcment officer or have a supiena because I have tryed to find out and all I get is that nothing can be mentioned because it is an ongoing investigation. and as for the bid about the ambulance you need to get your facts straight the ambulance has to transport the individual if the officer says to but at the same time the officer must go in the ambulance with them. Incase you didn’t know what AEMT is I will spell it out it is EMERGENCY MEDICAL TECHNICIAN PARAMEDIC(with 17 years on the job). If the ambulance is called and it is determined that the person is not in thier right mind then the ambulance crew needs to inform a law enforcement officer that the said person is not in the right frame of mind and needs to be placed into protective cosdity so that they maybe transported to a hospital.
firefighterkrs – acutally, you are wrong. I just spoke with a close friend of mine, who happens to be a ranking officer with one of the local fire/ems organizations in the area. This person informed me, that no that is not the case. They also went on to state that on numerous occasions ambulances have been dispatched to calls where the only issue with the person is the fact that they are emotionally disturbed or unstable. The ambulance WILL NOT TRANSPORT THOSE INDIVIDUALS unless they are physically injured or ill. It is an issue of provider safety (which as an EMT-P you should be aware of) and the volunteer providers in this area are not obligated to put themselves in that position when the law enforcement officer can just as easily place the restrained person in the back of a caged patrol car. Also, most EDP’s or mentally ill subjects will not consent to treatment or transport if they are not injured or sick and therefore can not be forced into an ambulance by EMT’s (which is one of the first lessons learned) and should be turned over to law enforcement, who can take someone into custody without their permission..
So thank you for your argument, but you may need to go back for a little more training.
Don’t worry richie I’am old and ugly too’ I have’nt been run out of townYet? not with standing and ex councilman of aberdeen has spoken of his disfavor of the ilk that stand’s at the back door of the council meeting.
I would suggest a petition’ against you would be a violation against your civil right’s. of which I’am sure our Honorable district attorney would agree to support. Every body’ is mad the town council is ready to tar & feather you’
Richie it’s all about ” freedom of speech” we the people have decided. on this day a PERSON OF INTEREST. KNOWN AS RICHIEC. NO LONGER HAS ANY RIGHT’S.
Thanks vet
…you seem to remember the oath we both took…to defend the constitution against foreign and DOMESTIC enemys…i dont recall any release from that oath at the end of my enlistment’s.
Go Dagger !
Vet in the last election…and as a result of the dagger…cracks are showing in the thick wall of silence in HdG.
Go Dagger !
You’ are so right Richiec. we do have enemy’s among us who challenge our right’s too free speech. I have injoyed the fruit’s this country’ has offered if and enemy in force were to attack our shores.
I would again pick up arm’s to defend this country’ and to defend it’s citizen.( might have too take Firefighterkrs with me, I’am suffering from congestive heart failure. a lung disfunction. ( can’t breath) agent orange.
the dagger allow’s me to express those right’s.
may God bless this country’ and our men women in uniform. past & present.
rathernot it I am sorry that my comments about the ambulance bit bothered you but if your friend stated it better as i said above the officer is required to ride in the ambulance with the crewthis is the law in all 50 states and yes your friend is correct about the sick or injured part I worded my statement wrong and i am sorry for that but I didn’t have time to proff read do to a family engagement. No where in this blog did you mention that you berated the city for the Naval Vessel the only one you did say that you berated them for was the Billard’s Club so I am sorry for the Naval Vessel comment and if you agree with me that we need to get these lady’s help then lets ALL OF US DROP OUR LITTLE DIFFERENCES AND GET THESE LAFYS THE HELP THAT IS NEED. Because God knows if we keep argueing over the little things then we will not be able to get these ladys the help they need AGREED
Vienam vet I will fight alnog side you any day as long as you dont mind fighting along side a Screaming Eagle, my Great Uncle was a Marine was in the Division that Hoisted Our Nations Flag on Iwo Jima. Very good man would give anyone the shirt off his back.
It seems to me that this city is divided…..the old guard and new….the old seems to think in many cases…or mabey just feels threatened…when the new guard raises an issue. Its almost as if its not relevent based upon WHO raises the issue. The old guard seem to think its a personall attack. This us and them mentality is counter productive. Those with entrenched power need not fear that those of us with a comment on OUR affairs are stepping on sacred turf. It blocks true progress !
Go Dagger !
firefighterkrs no problem. pulled a joint operation’ with the americal division on the beaches of ( batangan peninsula) mine fields. the 26th marine’s were the assault force. americal the blocking force.
alot of the boy’s never came home. and those who did were severally wounded
semper fi & gary owen
firefighterkrs – thank you for comment. I appreciate your candor. And regarding my comments about the naval ship, they were actually comments on the article itself, so they don’t actually appear under this topic.
And there is one thing I agree with regarding this topic. That is the fact that we need to do something for these ladies.
My whole point has not been defending what these women are doing or even trying to state that they have every right to be there and should remain. My point is that the wrong people are being blamed for this issue. Certain people take everything personally and think everything that doesn’t go their way is because of a vendetta or a conspiracy. The mayor, the city council and the police do not deserve blame for this issue. I wish certain people would just take five minutes to actually listen to what has been done, the efforts put forth and time and energy expended on handling this issue the correct way. But instead they are too busy enjoying the sound of their own bellowing to hear anything said because of who’s mouth it’s coming from.
These ladies are originally from Glen Burnie, then were in Aberdeen for some time. Now they have moved from in front of the Acme, to the Burger King, the Weis, the High School, the Police Department, the Post office, the Seafood Dealer and are now in front of the One Stop. Each one of those movements were because of actions by the city government. The businesses allowed them to stay there until they were tired of receiving complaints, so they called the police. And because the police departments hands were tied, all they could do was ask them to move one. One of their signs states that they were denied use of public restrooms by the police. That is true – however they were denied use due to the fact that both of them would enter the bathroom in the police station, camp for 3-4 hours and when they left would have stolen all of the toilet paper and paper towels. And they would do this every night. I would certainly agree with the police department’s actions.
That is one of the things that is the basis of this whole issue, is that everyone is basing their opinions on what they are seeing – two women with all their possessions in a shopping cart covered with protest signs. And that would garner sympathy from most. But what is not known is all the work that has gone into helping these women. Social services has used every tool in their power to help them. Arranged housing, medical assistance, mental health workers and even income. All refused. Almost every single church and religious organization in the city (and some from even further) has offered their assistance, with no response. Even officers from the police department, off duty and on their own time, have offered help. REFUSED. And the NAACP was not contacted because the city was scared of reprisal and wanted to be politically correct…they were contacted because they have vast resources of assistance to offer these ladies. But their assistance was also denied.
Now with all charitable resources exhausted, the next reasonable step would be a use of law and force. Well unfortunately that is not an option. With the State’s Attorney basically crippling the police by stating they will not prosecute the Loitering law, very little can be done. Sure, the police could round them up, cart them off to the detention center where they would sit until the State’s Attorney got the case. Then as soon as it was dismissed, they would be released and wind up right back where they are, with even more signs. Or even worse, they would become someone else’s problem and wind up on the side of Rt 24 in Bel Air.
Some would say problem solved. They’re off our corner and no longer our eyesore. BUT IT DOESN’T HELP THEM. I think the Richie’s of HdeG would be satisfied because they don’t care about these women…they just don’t want to have to see them anymore. But all that amounts to is passing the buck…exactly what Richie is accusing the city of doing.
So what I’m asking for is this. A solution. A suggestion. Something other than name calling, blame placing and finger pointing. Let’s see if we can find some reasonable course of action. Hell, I would even support a petition…if it was directed at the right people. But Richie just wants to use this as another piece of ammunition to throw at the city because of his own personal vendettas.
Rather not say
…no sir…..there is not a vendetta or a conspirecey…..there is a clever manipulation and tune out by certain people in the administration when it comes to certain people…in my case its stems back to a personal issue between me and the mayor that you are quite frankly not aware of. When the mayor came to office he capitolized on the debate that had been already settled with the city over Narvall…the grudge the mayor holds has to do with property I bought…property he was trying to get at a discount price on multiple ocassions from multiple owners.
The Mayor , in my opionion , has seen an opening to inflame feelings over the narvall issue as a way to do exactly what he had done for years on my block…try to make me as uncomfortable as possible. One must note that on a simple request to stop some very minor retaliation…he solicited information from me, telling me he needed it to make the marina better and fairer…fed it back to the people it reguarded in a way that inflamed them and when they sent a petition with no facts attached he conveniently took it at face value…blocked a hearing…hid it until dec of last year…and refused to renew my lease on his unilaterial instructions. He also said specificly that he just doesnt like me and who the hell I think I am. It seems to be a problem on his part where anyone else taking an interest in the things I have taken an interest in would be given a pulitzer and wittness protection.
In effect he has played both sides against the middle…a masterfull manipulation.
Now you know the back story…this is only an extension of what he was already doing.
There is no vast conspirecy…..its just a guy who doesnt like his neighbor over a perceived smite…a smite I didnt do. His accesibility to city staff..such as you…his ability to controll what you hear….gives him the advantage. Want proof…..ask him to have a hearing on why my lease wasnt renewed…he will ether lie or tell you some legal twist of why its so important that no hearing ever be held. You, the rathernots, fall hook line and sinker.
Go Dagger
PS…
my concern about the way these people are handled is genuine…god forbid the mayor allowed me to be taken seriously…than I might be able to raise the marina issue and be listened to…so he has a need to make me irrevelent. Do you now understand it? And I still say we havnt done whats available in this situation. Just because Ishak and Dougherty say we have no options that doesnt mean its true…we havnt scratched the surface. They dont want to be bothered. As long as Alan Faire approves of where they are its ok…the rt 40 trash corridor as he stated last monday…the HdG dump. Read the record as to Faires rediculass comments re the Billards Club.
Go Dagger
Rathernot…
you skip civil law…and….
show me in writing where the states atty has said they wouldnt prosicute a law…thats rediculass….and in any event..all they would receive is a summons the idea is to get them in front of a judge who can see what state there in…or a contempt…where a judge can see what state there in….or ask for injunction as a nuisance…and ask the state to evaluate based upon there scoffing.
You want it to be an exhausted avenue when its not been tried.
Go Dagger
Rather..
108-2 and 108-3 both allow police to take action …if the scoff and continually repeat they can be cited for not following instructions…in prosicution the da or judge can be asked to evaluate them…its real simple…..but this admin simply doesnt care….and as long as they are not on alliance st its ok.
Now Rather…your gonna tell me that we never on a fri or sat nite use the disobey police law to throw a drunk in the hoozgow…cummon…do ya think we are stupid…same law…different circumstance…so please dont insult the inteligance of the people reading this.
Go Dagger !
Go Dagger
Rather…now listen carefully
The predetermined result is being shoehorned down our throats…the oppisite should be true.
Go Dagger !
If I’am reading this ”correctly” the lady’s in question’ were ” stealing” the toilet paper & paper towel’s.from the police department.last time I checked stealing was a crime.petty theft true’ but still a crime.
so it’s perfectly all right too steal from the citizen’s of Haver de grace. if it were wal mart klien’s target etc. it’s shoplifting.
Best bet is to move them too bel air. I bet the D.A will get the lead out of his a–
Notice how rather comes back to that recurring theme…please dont listen to richie…even if hes saying exactly what others are saying…rathernot…you are transparent…and lets not forget it was Rathernot who steered this thread into a thread on me…..clever clever.
Go Dagger !
Rather…you have not answered why its so important to concede that no law enforcement options can be used.
Go Dagger
Vet..Its not that I dont want it solved but It is somthing I was hoping the powers that be in HdG would have the honor to rectify themselvs….and it also is somthing that If dumped in Del Rileys lap needs to be right and straite as an arrow.
Go Dagger!
ehh
” yuou wonder why dougherty get shabooed when I enter a room”
aside from “yuou”–
what does “shabooed” mean?
edit
..”shabooed” means….. “flapped”.
Go Dagger !
and what does “flapped” mean?
editrix
…what other names do you use here…suddenly out of the blue is editrix…we may be in the middle of a conversation under another name you use…its not polite to pull a bag over your head and try to say your somone else…
For your information “Flapped” means…as if you didnt know…”Twisted”.
Now twisted as we all know means “Shabooed”.
Go Dagger !
RichieC,
I’m new and an editor in reality. In fact, I’m just a mere “wordy” person.
Many thanks for the definition. I love learning the vernacular.
Cheers!
Well editrix
editrix as you can imigine there is history abound here….Glad to meet you and its simple street language describing flustered…upset.
What do you edit…news…books…tell us a little.
Go Dagger!
To All
An old nazi propaganda handbook excerpt……..( i hate those goddam people)
“if the old propagandists of the party, whom the people see as models, do not applaud, because they have heard it all so often before. Remember that the speaker is not trying to reach you, but everyone else. You, however, are his cheering section, you are the examples. Success depends on you.”
It goes on and on with referances to a “block Leader” a political active citizen…somthing I was introduced to on my first day on my street, almost nine years ago ….I do NOT have a home owners assosiation. ……”Leaflets coming from higher authorities, naturally, are to be distributed as fast as possible. BLOCK LEADERS and block wardens often resist such tasks, saying that they are not message boys….” This mention of a block leader in a context not related to a homeowners association is troubling to say the least. It smacks of a non elected power base working in the shadows when its orginised to the point people are calling themselvs block leaders.
But enough of why I got a bug up my bun over some nonsense about me…this artical is about the ladies…so I ask this question as we seem to all agree that NOT ALL AVENUES HAVE BEE EXHAUSTED and the step in front of us is the legal system both civil and criminal, why not use it…what is engraved in stone that says it wont work?
Go Dagger
I’m a writer and an editor. You name it–I’ve done it, from news reporting to copy editing.–not in the HdG area. The funny thing is, after I posted, I went to Google and found defintions in the Urban Dictionary and below is what Urban Dictionary says “sabooed” means (granted I’m always happy to learn new words but not so keen on Urban Dictionary definitions because I am very careful about my sources). For that reason and because it lacks attribution, definition #3 is disturbing: it seems too close to the racism/illiteracy that is rampant in HdG:
“1. Shaboo : Dat is da filipino term for shit A.K.A. crystal methanphetamine.
A cuz! You got dat shaboo so I can fuck and be up like a muthafucka!
by Ray Ulatan Feb 9, 2005
2. shaboo: hawaiian term meaning crystal methamphetamies
you have some shaboo?
by Eric Sleezy E Jackson
3. A stupid,ugly nigga
SHUT YA OL’ SHABOO LOOKIN ASS UP!!”
I’ve had a house in HdG for several years, please tell me the racism I see here is not for real.
For sure, RichieC, I am learning about the history here. My neighbors, who go back years to decades in this this town, are a major source of information.
I’d like to write the real history of HdG. How do I contact those with the stories?
Talk to people…simple as that
My e mail is Onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
edix.
…..did you ever hear of the word pergoritive…can you please explain what it means to the dagger readers.
Thank You
Go Dagger !
The only racism I see is the loosley vailed inferance to the loosley used slang street terms for which there are many definitions….or the lack therof…that I have used.
I hope that you are not Calling me a racist….you are in for a real big surprise…
1. Been tried before
2. failed
3 The new name …im new to town…new to the dagger and totaly obgective…has also been tried and failed many…many…times…
With these three facts stated I think you should just make comments on the subgect…not 1 of the many commenters…also a dead giveaway.
The subject isnot me…it’s about the ladies…so I ask this question as we seem to all agree that NOT ALL AVENUES HAVE BEE EXHAUSTED and the step in front of us is the legal system both civil and criminal, why not use it…what is engraved in stone that says it wont work?
Go Dagger
Please edix
we dont use the n word here…..even though its protected we have a decorum that we try to practace….your quoting of examples of vile language is ….distastfull and way over the top.
Go Dagger
Oh my gosh, RichieC, no, I was not calling you a racist, simply pointing out how words can be defined. And you’re correct,this thread is about our ladies of the highway.
About the ladies, shouldn’t someone tell them that HdG is considering telling the state to pick up the ladies’ belonings because those belongings are now considred a memorial?
Yes.
..I know foir a fact thats been done and as usial they Ignored it. I know its been done as they have been given copies of the record wirth the passage highlighted and told to remove the rosa parks sign…eliminating the ability to pass the buck in that way. As of today they have not removed the sign. Or even turned it around. The message was relayed through somone they do dialog with.
Go Dagger…
PS…edix….
There is a long history…contact me…or read…read…read and you will learn why dilligance is used when a new name shows up. If your on the up and up you will appreciate it…if not…have fun.
heh, that should be “considered” a memorial–even editors goof .
Apologies for the vile words, just quoting (note: I put all those words in quotation marks)–not words I ever use myself.
But I stand by the racism/segregation I see in HdG.
ok fair enough…so when is am coffee….tomorrow sound good…you can meet the town olger…….(chuckle)
Lets talk….
where is the racism/segregation being seen in Haver de grace ? the ”lady’s” are still there they have been for years, they are still exerting there civil right’s. ( Rosa park’s sign’s) racism? yes on there behalf.
there doing such and excellent job of protest. we should get them to run for the MAYOR’S office. they might accomplish’ what the city council or the D.A. could’nt do get them off the street.
Which in turn’ I’am surprised they don’t need a permit to protest.
Well vet…..as they say its not a problem until its a problem.
As for racism…..I dont think HdG is any more or less racist than any other similer city. You have your closet racists..who cares about them as long as they behave…you have you clever racists, the ones who disguise it….and just a few good ol boys , whoeven relize they are the minority.
Vet…I like the word BIGOT better…..I have been the victom many times…as a former New Yorker…of bigotry in maryland in general. Most of this BOGOTRAY has been the result of IGNORANCE rather than just plain meanness.
Like you vet….Ive seen the color blindness when the shit hits the fan…when you relize the pettyness of the color of skin.
As you and I both know all to well…we are all od green, and there are no athiests……. in foxholes. The same applies in life.
Go Dagger !
Go Dagger !
Att.
editrix. we are eagerly’ looking forward to your’ exposure of racism of which you’ speak of haver de running rampant with. accomplished editor/ writer we are eagerly’ waiting on your’ report.
As richiec say’s your more likely to find Bigotry. he is only fighting for his right to put his boat back in the marina. he most certainly’appears to be singled out because he exert’s his right to freedom of speech.
The lady’s are still on the street. Richiec is out of the marina. I’am betting if he joined forces with the ”lady’s’ he would be in jail the first day’ for vagrancy.
Im wondering what happened to RATHERNOTSAY and EDITRIX ?
I mentioned it last week and Im saying it again.
To refresh; I mentioned that the mother was complaining to a shop-keeper about not feeling well. I have noticed a marked change in the mothers having taken to sitting more than standing. The sitting seems to be with plastic bags as coushons and with shoes off and elevated. This sitting is in daytime hours and is somthing new.
Mabey the mayors solution is closer than we relize.
SAD !
Go Dagger !
Richiec I think it’s apparent there mentally’ ill.winter is comeing & there most likely going to freeze to death. which is apparently what the city wish’s.
Sorry gentlemen I had to work over time and my sons Football games this weekend has kept me away. I see we had someone else stop by and didn’t stay long. Been trying to think of another way to help these lady’s but I cant come up with one yet, that we haven’t thought of? Saw that someone had Mentioned Delegate Delaney James is there a possibility she might be able to help us find a humane solution.
Semper Fi, Gary Owen & Air Assault
I don’t think delaney james is to well thought of. When there’s a stench brewing it’s amazeing how the elected official’s disappear. what is the name of the street or corner the lady’s are on?
otsego and route 40
Update…as of 6:40 this evening they are once again on both sides of ostego…the pizza hut side with a few bags on the ground and umbrellas…and their stuff on the sidewalk on the one stop side of ostego.
Go Dagger !
Some of you that are new to the dagger may not know the back story of why the Mayor is so caustic to me. Much of it was explained in post #56…but the actual subject of inflamation that he capitolized on was the issue of a Yacht Basin user being allowed to abuse the facilities. We had an alzheimers couple on our dock and the man (alzheimers) could not get on and off his sail boat without a few people literaly lifting him. This couple was a delight….yet the dock that should have been theres was being and still is…as a party deck for the fourth of july.
This went unnoticed by me until the abuser using the handicapped slip demanded I move a car because he had the silly Idea that he had more rights than me. When I asked him why I should move my car so he could park his in the unreserved space…he stated that he was a city official. This was untrue. Upon checking I found he had no reserved space. I asked the city politly and privatly to see that this didnt happen again as some nasty things bordering on threats were said by this person.
This elevated and a debate ensued….the end result was that the slip (dock) had to be used correctly.
(links showing slip and document copy showing the issue was closed and settled).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rokW_OIVQvY
During the debate I was threatened……”if you persue this “I” will throw you out of the marina”.Dougerty gets in office…I ask his help…he says he will help…..and badda bing…im out.
So much for the first ammendment right to redress, (ask for remedy) , your government as our constitution garantees. There was no evidance…no hearing…no appeal….just an ambigious accusation.
Based upon documentation on The Dagger and ineffective law enforcement of laws that are on the books and the current mayor’s position, I certainly hope that someone doesn’t have to walk around the women or step over their stuff and say twists an ankle or falls on a city maintained sidewalk. Several political paths would be altered and the rainy day fund might be pretty much wiped out. Like it or not the city of Havre De Grace is liable through the inaction.
To keep this fair, let’s say one of these fine women passes out and expires from exposure or something along those lines. The next of kin will have a field day. Simple inaction can hang you out to dry. Any action, in good faith, is better than no action.
rwinger…
I beleive its called “AN ACT OF OMISSION”.
Its been pointed out to our mayor and his lawer Ishak…..they seem to not care.
Go Dagger !
Am I goofy or are they not blocking the sidewalk in one direction…am I halicunating?
Check the pic in the artical.
Go Dagger !
I agree the relative’s are ”waiting” for and opportunity to sue.in the mean time the lady’s are exerting there civil right’s.excuseing them self’s from common courtesy right’s.such as blocking the side walk at there leisure. vagrancy etc.
Returning late to this thread. (Here’s the thing: I have something called a life, so I don’t live on this board.)
In the last few days, I have had occasion to pass the ladies of the highway–sometimes the mom is sitting, other times she’s leaning; at no time does she look healthy. It does break my heart that she might be in imminent distress. Sadly, I guess as long as she can refuse help, she is entitled to do so. Not that that is a good thing.
vietnam vet, specific examples of racism in HdG–
–After my house was illegally entered, one of my neighbors said, “The [nasty racial epithet] did it.” He was not a witness, how would he know? That term was so offensive even the responding officer looked shocked. I was gob smacked. I mean who in this day and age uses racist comments in public? Who even thinks such things? Yet he was unapologetic about his assertion. (Who do I think did it? Same perps as the officer thought: stupid local brats or junkies.) And as I understand it, my racist neighbor’s family goes back a ways in HdG. Far enough back that his family-owned waterfront property was recently sold for a huge amount of cash to an old white developer for, yeah, condos. As a result, his now wealthy, but still good ole boy, status makes him arrogant enough to make racist remarks in front of the police and anyone else who might take offense (that would be me), not to mention confident enough that no one in power (including the police) will call him on such remarks. Now, I guess the old white developers ( I do know that an old white guy bought that property) really do rule this town.
–By the way, speaking of old white developers, didn’t Alan Fair suggest at a recent HdG City Council meeting that the Billiards Club be relocated to Revolution Street? Isn’t that a predominately black area? Racism? You tell me.
–Speaking of the same City Council meeting, a black man (I did not catch his name. but he is a man of the faith) also spoke about a longstanding prayer meeting that meets annually in Havre de Grace. Yet before he spoke, he was “cautioned” about talking about an incident on the Promenade in which he was ultimately incarcerated. An incident by the way, in which he noted many council members knew who he was and they should be called to vouch for him. He was ignored by the arresting officers. Why? And cautioned about mentioning it at the City Council meeting? Why?
Minor incidents? Perhaps, but likely not to the people involved. Merely a few examples? Sure. Isolated? I doubt it. Racist? If it walks like racism, if it quacks like racism, it must be . . . You tell me.
And a follow-up:
“…..did you ever hear of the word pergoritive…can you please explain what it means to the dagger readers.”
Actually, I don’t believe the word “pergoritive” exists. However, “pejorative” does and is defined as:
adj.
Tending to make or become worse.
Disparaging; belittling.
n.
A disparaging or belittling word or expression.
pejoratively pe·jor’a·tive·ly adv.
And excerpted from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pejorative):
“When used as a noun, pejorative means ‘a belittling or disparaging word or expression.’ Sometimes a term may begin as a pejorative word and eventually be adopted in a non-pejorative sense.”
But I think Dagger readers know the term and its meaning. Not sure what your point was.
About Mary-Delany James. From experience, I have also noticed she goes “AWOL” when something that matters to the town arises. I‘m not sure who she answers to. Why waste time with her–except to see if you get a response(well after the fact and telling you she was on your side from the get go)? I’m guessing the girl don‘t make waves: The ladies of the highway are of no concern to her.
Over and out.
Well editrix…
I have a life too…in fact somtimes i call on the phone and have the dagger read to me and i dictate responses. While on the road in my truck. Why…cause I care!
Im glad your specific….I also see many of the same things and was and am very curious at the circumstances around that man…why he was arrested…ect…ect. The comments of warning were out of hand and inappriotate. The comments wre noticed …!!!
I have mentioned it and have also mentioned in the dagger that many noticed that the dialog was that of hindering the public comment …in many peoples comments.
Yes I saw Faires comments and yes he said send it to RT 40…Near my house…or revolution st. Mabey to a black n-hood or mabey to a lowlife n-hood…in any event bad ju-ju.
Heres a little more of the wiki referance …the part’s you didnt include.
“Pejorative expressions that are not inherently dyslogisms may also be used in a non-pejorative way, however, and determining the intent of the speaker is problematic — as with any implied meaning. Conversely, a common rhetorical ploy is to apply “pejorative” to a factual descriptor — as “toxic” might be applied to poison — and then decry it as “pejorative” to suit the agenda of those defending the substance as harmless.[citation needed]”
“Not every instance of criticism is pejorative.”
If your intent is to argue endlessly im not interested…if your intent is to try to make a dummy out of somone…im not interested…
If your intention is to become a voice for Improvement of this community I would very much like to meet you. You seem like one who could contribute in a positive way at this time…the more the merrier.
editrix…..Do you have a hard copy on that?
editrix…
I never ever heard the “N” word used before moving to Maryland around 1993.
Never heard it used openly in 6.5 years of military service.
Never heard it used in New York growing up.
Never heard it used amongst my garbage man friends in New York and New Jersey.
I did hear a harford county dir of procurement get all snagged over my use of the word JEW when describing a friend of mine…perfectly acceptable to jews by the way.
I did have a sea container chassis painted with “F&%$ YOU JEW when it was sitting in Havre de Grace (it had jewish writing on it…a Zim line chassis).
I have heard the N word used liberally here in town by some bozos.
I have been subject to stupid “what exit are you from” jokes.
I have been quizzed as to where im from…?
I have had Judge Dunnigan (district court) chastize a cop (he left his force early) for bringing charges against me …stating “its not illegal to be from new york”…after making a not guilty finding. The officer didnt like my attitude…and literally made a case of it, yet was asking for a guilty on somthing with no evidance of having happened..
So editrix…..ignorant people victomize people whom they feel can be run over all the time.
People of concious fight it when and where possible in many ways.
People of concious dont nit pick spelling and split hairs…it only diminishes our collective voices for justice.
Drop Me a line… onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
Go Dagger
Oh and by the way…im catholic.
Go Dagger !
VET……
Im thinking Editrix might be legit…..mabey a meet or mabey he/she will send an e-mail….
I see more good that bad in editrix comments…Editrix your city needs voices…
Go Dagger !
Editrix
certainly has some strong point’s. just might be a welcome’ edition too the voice of the people, THE DAGGER. l\
Can’t afford to have a life.it’s too costly’
yes vet agreed
….im sure editrix will excuse my third degree and hazing when he/she knows me a bit better.
And honestly…I like the way editrix doesnt take any crap…!!!
Go Dagger !
hey…..when the old white developer (you know, the guy who owns the town) said the pool hall should be located on revolution street or rt. 40….did you also catch him say that the hdg police should “harrass” them? I mean, who does this clown think he is? the bigger question is, since he owns the town and can not be silenced, do you think the police WILL harrass the pool hall?
I did see that…and it wasnt taken very well with some in our govt. The Mayor should have said ..with no reservation…thats inappriotate. It shows that this is not a mayor who is objective but rather a mayor who has an adgenda and is willing to make and manipulate a situation based upon who you are, rather than simply respond to it. This is bad government. Actions such as this are divisive and promote us and them mentalitys.
I belive that a similer tactic will be used as was used against me…the complaints and animosity will be stirred (solicited) by the one who will act on the complaints.
I beleive the fix is in…no solution will be sought…no remedy…just a lynch mob will be stirred.
I hope the citizens see it this time as its public instead of quite and secretiv as was in my case.
Go Dagger !
Brokenbone we could assume, your question racist in nature.useing the word ( white) but it would question the validity, of the old white man that’s own’s the town the mayor the council etc owned by the old white man.
I’am not sure he has the police in his pocket. he has been known too be ”tight” with his money.
editrix may be right. racisim may very well be playing a part in haver de grace’s affairs. not so much in color issues’as I don’t like the way you look dress act etc.
Vet
cultural spilling into racial…so it becomes a class issue
US and THEM
Go Dagger !
When our mayor states publicly, in a city council meeting, that he has to consult with the NAACP over 2 ladies on a corner…you got problems……
In 2008 we have no room for that nonsense…that is 1960’s thinking.
These ladies should be dealt with WITHOUT reguard to color…as a statement of that nature indicates.
Go Dagger !
BROKENBONE …
As far as the pool hall goes, that being “The Billiards Club” where my family are regulars on karaoke nights and my best friend works, the police ARE harassing them!! Last Friday ngiht while I was there, I PERSONALLY watched two officers harassing the owners and aptrons WITHOUT reason! One of them sat in the middle of the road, right in front of the Billiards Club, with his laptop open, playing solitaire! YES FOLKS! That is what we’re paying taxes for! The other officer parked right in front of The Billiards Club’s fron window just watching everybody, inside and out! They were not called for assistance, nor was there ONE person doing anything wrong!! The owners have done a GREAT job of getting the drug dealers, and buyers, out of their bar! It’s a great place to go to hang out with friends. Basically the same crowd on any given Friday or Saturday night. We LOVE having a place to go within walking distance if we care to walk down and home, that has pool tables and a mix of karaoke and music! If the cops want to harass someone, they should move either up or down the street to the bars that are the real problems … the Lerrapin and Coakley’s, where all the druggies hang out and sell and buy their drugs!! There is no more of that problem at The Billiards Club! We still have our occasional “way too drunk” people who have to be escorted out but, they don’t cause any problems either – those are just funny episodes to watch.
The cops need to worry about the problems on our street corners and the “loitering in front of the bars”, which we can’t do at the Billiards Club either! We have to go across the street tot he corner to smoke! Why don’t the other bars have to do the same? They need sombody to **** with so, why not make it the “small guy in town”? SICKENING!!
Vietnam Vet….no racial tone implied with my question….I guess I can’t get past how white the old man’s hair and eybrows are….LOL….that’s why I refer to him as the old “white” man…..
But I agree…..there seems to be a social class divide going on downtown….I guess some folks don’t like how other folks dress or act…..sad….really sad.
Hey, if the pool hall closes, say goodbye to the best crab cake in town!
Broken bone… Thank you’ for the explanation. the dagger is gaining ground in become the people’s voice, as it grow’s it will become aforce to reckon with. there is’nt a problem until the people speak. then and attemp at correction’s can be attempted.
Richiec has been and ever present force’ in what he call’s the Haver de grace mafia. no doubt the mayor council etc.just a little Guy’ battleing city hall.
editrix is speaking loudly’ of racisim.
“If your intention is to become a voice for Improvement of this community I would very much like to meet you. You seem like one who could contribute in a positive way at this time…the more the merrier.
editrix…..Do you have a hard copy on that?”
I copy. (Long post and a bit off topic but in response.)
I noticed, recently, that the ladies were nowhere to be seen on Saturday night. My neighbors said that the ladies often moved from one side of Otsego (is it Otsego on the OneStop side of the street or Camilla?) to the other (Pizza Hut?) side. When I drive by, I don’t make much of an effort to decide what fast food place is where (tho’ I do love me some Waffle House—go, Joe!).
“I never ever heard the “N” word used before moving to Maryland around 1993.” Well, thank goodness, RichieC, you obviously grew up in a better neighborhood than I. Ironically, I grew up in a close-in (for many years, white only, and I’m not proud of that) suburb of DC and heard that word too many times; however, that’s not the word my 30-something neighbor used. (Historical note: Maryland was, I believe, a slave state, and Frederick Douglass barely escaped slavery by crossing the Susquehanna from HdG.)
“Oh and by the way…im catholic.” That’s funny; I was raised Lutheran (we ask a LOT of questions and rattle a lot of cages).
Vet and Richie, ask away—just don’t be pissed if I choose not to reply to everything. You guys rock! Bless you for granting that I don’t take crap—took it for so long that maybe I’m just tired of ducking it. Hint: YOGA is a grand thing. : )
Broken bone—“did you also catch him say that the hdg police should “harrass” them?” You go! Whether the pool hall is good or bad—since when??? Do cops harass? I don’t think that’s the job of the police. (Well, maybe in a police state.) But. RichieC, the guy who asked is white—so I don’t see that Broken bone is racist, just accurate in his (uh my too) description of the questioner. Your point about “class” divisions in Hdg may be more apt.
And, sorry, Terri, I was at Laurrapin on Friday night and saw no cops at all. However, I have to say in the last few months, when I’ve walked through town (all hours any day of the week, from late morning to early evening), I’ve seen a lot of police activity in front of the Billiards Club. I’m just saying.
OK so y’all have issues with spelling, etc. Accept that I will nitpick spelling and so on (hell, I’m wired that way). So, please don’t hate me cuz I think gud grammer and spellin’ matterz. : ). If your spelling issues aren’t allowed to detract from your points neither should my attempts to be a stickler for that stuff be held against me. In the words of Pat Benatar, “Hit me with your best shot! Fire AWAY!”
Back on topic—I did not see the ladies at all on Saturday. Are they still at there? I am concerned about them.
–editrix
I saw them sat nite….I was also at lauripin and , Mcgregors. At about 8 I definitly saw them. Saw them sitting in front of the walk way sign on the way home.
Ostego goes to rt 40……if you go up the hill on ostego Camilla is there…
Onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
If you want to contact me…im open for a coffee in the am with anyone interested. Mabey by Java by the bay…never been there and I feel it may make a good place to hang out for those of us who are community concious.
Go Dagger !
Today Sept 2nd ….
There has been considerable activity on the corner of Ostego and Rt 40.
Around the noonish hour Im told the cheif of police was there having a conversation with them. The conversation lasted a considerable time. This presence lasted until about 2:30 with different officers. I personally spent some time observing and the conversation seemed to move from loosey goosey to animated.
Go Dagger !
PS…
I noticed that one of them kept pointing to cars that had to stop next to them to wate for the traffic light to enter rt 40 as if explaining somthing or pointing somthing out about the car. These cars were from one stop or from my street.
Go Dagger !
Anything new Richie. I’m curious to see if the Police Chief is going to think outside of the box and do what’s right.
RichieC, you are a good one. Can I bring my homeless sisier to you? Will you get her fixed up? Thanks, that’d be great.
I know I sound like a pooo, but sometimes “these people” refuse help, refuse a rational approach, and when they finally are subject to the social services system, they often fail and can’t wait to be “out” again. It is mental condition — I suppose if we want to be our brother’s keeper we should merely make street corners a little comfortable for those who wish to stand about all their lives.
I know…so what do we do….just not try?
Go Dagger !
Yes they are on the corner and yes there are laws.
I guess you can say they are the same laws that keep Richie C in town!
And take your boat with you!
Well Hello George…
Great comment.
Go Dagger !
Ps…they are standing in the pouring rain tonite….quick George…..they need your address…they want to get out of the rain !
GoGo Dagger ! ! !
What George doesn’t mention (notice the boat comment) is that today its been admitted to by Paul Ishak that one of the complainers in the marina train wreck has been to city hall and admitted that his complaint was done under instructions from another…and under duress. I wonder if George knows ?
George lashes out ! George cries… George worries about George and what George can get for George…..RichieC worries about right and wrong.
Go Dagger ! !
Richiec you’ will have to keep up the pressure. ”they” would hope you would disappear… I’am thinking Richiec is going to be right there giveing them Hell.
George I don’t think richie is in the habit of running… truth & justice use to be the american way.now it’s measured in money.
Richie baby,
How I can I put this I really don’t know any thing about your boat except what I have read here. As for the ladies standing in the rain well if they want to get wet then let them. I do wish they would leave that corner but let’s say if you wanted to stand on that corner and everybody but GOD approached you and you didn’t want to leave. What can I do to make you leave?? Come on Richie look deep down in your soul what can you do to help those ladies out?? Everybody has a right to do their own thing. Sometimes it sucks but there is a little thing called Civil Rights. If we had the right to put everybody we think away in a mental institute half of HdeG would be in HMH on the 5th floor! Stop and think half the people on disablity doesn’t need to be on it! There’s people who need it and can’t due to the rest of the liars who don’t want to work. The only thing I can say is stop giving those ladies any handouts, maybe they will leave.
I’am afraid GOD is no longer and issue, he has been stomped tromped & removed from the courts the school’s etc. and very little said in the church’s.
All we have are the power’s that be.
I agree with you Vietnam Vet. When I was in Elementary School we said prayers before Lunch. Now with so many religions out there, it seems everybody has a different version of GOD. I pray everynight and Thank GOD for what I have and for my Family. I admit I may not have much but we’re making it. A car a roof over our head. A good job. I can’t complain.
And Thank You for your Service and dedication to our Country! One Nation Under God. Peace be with you.
G MooreRice…. Baby…Dahling…
Whats with the drama and your bizarre comments. You seem to have a reason or two to mock true concern…
Dahling….Baby….why are you attacking the fact that many here have a voiced concern…do you find something with that concern…or are you imbalanced.
The truth is that half of HdG is not on that corner…and we do put many on the fifth floor weekly.
Yes I do look deep in my soul…when I have to respond to a person like you who says nothing can be done…makes a boat comment, ( clearly a personal attack as your actually not concerned with the subject here…just using it as a way to argue with me), in a thread about two deeply disturbed women abandoned on the side of the road and .
Yeaaaaa for Gorge MoreRice ! ! (chuckle)
Go Dagger ! !
Ps vet…..ya gotta love em.
Vet…you know I’m not going anywhere…(Chuckle).
This George Maurice must think people are really stupid.
Go Dagger ! !
Goergy MoreRice baby..
Hows things on “A” street.
Question….is $3700 realy that much money ?
Go Dagger !
Dont be a DEADBEAT.
Georgie MoreRice…..
Do you share that pad at 221 with L.N….another deadbeat.14,000$…N as everyone knows is a name associated with the marina mafia…lol…lol. I wonder if its the same…ill find out. Why would you disingeniously post in this thread..when you should post where you realy want to…in the marina mafia threads.
Go Dagger ! !
It is…..verified by cross reffing old ocean city charge of false proof of age to “L” lane address of daddy.
You pathetic broke looser.
Go Dagger ! !
I forgot bankrupt looser. (karma)
Go Dagger ! !
Hey L. Christopher (aka goe morerice ?)…were you the one who ran the electrical chord under the dock to get free electricity from the unmetered pedestal across from you on pier 3 ?
Dude…if you cant afford a boat….you shouldnt have one. Take up…..soft ball…its cheaper !
Go Dagger !
There will be more on this…this is funny…
Alert..Alert…Lock your doors and secure your wallet if on “A” Street…between Georgie and L. Christopher…you stand a good chance of being vacuumed clean of your cash.
Go Dagger ! !
Richie baby Good morning!
I don’t own a boat. I am comfortable in my life. Your ramblings make me think that you room is ready at HMH.
Still I like to see what you write next. Do you ever sleep?
A tough guy to… L. Christopher knows how to smack the women around…
You fn looser…! ! Punk !
Go Dagger ! !
Georgie boy…..your transparent…try again
Go Dagger ! !
I slept in 1978…dont worrie about it !
Go Dagger
Its 7 am…im gettin a coffee and goin to check the marina…you know who I am….ill be there at 7 15.
Go Dagger ! !
Coffee sounds good. Maybe I’ll see you in passing.
Have a good morning Richie. Gotta go to work.
I do like the I slept in 1978, that’s a good one!
I’m back…..That was a weird exchange….some very coincidental stuff there.
The boat reference…..the name….ties to an address of one of the marina mafia…this guy needs to play the lottery cause the odds on what just happened are huge…and he hit the jack-pot.
Go Dagger !
G maurice
Richiec is just one of the more colorfull personal that appear on the Dagger.He is a man with issue’s. he attack’s city council etc. exerting his rights. some what too there discomfort.
He is who he is.
Vet…
G Maurice was disingenuos….that little exchange was about the whole marina thing…even though its in a thread about these homeless women…take my word Vet. I believe him to be the son of one of the original main players in that deal.
Go Dagger !
Richie Baby,
I don’t have a boat and I’m not part of the Marina Mafia. The only boat I have is an inflatable one that my kid has in his pool. What I have read in the Record newspaper about your situation is very little about your boat. You have the right to voice your opinion and so do I. I just wish that you could do it in a not so brass nature. You know the old saying you get more flies with honey than vinegar. As for the ladies I wish that they could sprout wings and fly away, but they have civil rights too. There are agencies out there that are still trying to get these ladies help and I hope they don’t give up. I would like to see you run for council this May. I hope you win and let’s see if you can solve all the problems this town faces.
Just a suggestion. Councilman Richie? Do you like the sound of that?
g maurice
well…i have no clue who this is but if you knew the coincidence that you have stumbled onto you would understand why I have said what I have said…does it intrigue you as to why I have been answering you the way I have?…If so simply contact me.
Onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
If you do that I will explain why I have reacted the way I have.
G maurice… heres a hint
do you know who the real G Maurice is?
Go Dagger!
Sure they have civil rights…..so do we….BUT !
The overwhelming issue is sick people in our midst…you would not walk past a person unconscious in the road…would you…using the rational that they haven’t asked for help…and when asked when help arrived…they didn’t say yes i want help?
They are not rational by any standard….they cannot voice their circular grievance…they cannot take care of themselves…so if we have to cite them to get them into the system so they can be helped…so be it…grow some Wayne…just do it !!!!!
Go Dagger !!!
Richie
You are true to your word. Like I said you should run for council! Let your voice be heard to the citizens of HdeG! Sometimes you come off stand-offish. One day maybe I will contact you and have that cup of coffee. You might be surprise to see who is behind the G. Maurice! I look forward to your posts. Hopefully the state can do something with the ladies. Blog on my dear friends blog on!
Maurice…I would like you to e mail me……you will be surprised at who the HdG Maurice is ! You may not be aware…or are you … the one at 221 “A” street?
Go Dagger !
Richie
What is 221 A street? I don’t understand that one.
e mail me at onekooleskimo@yahoo.com and ill explain…youll laugh at it…strange but true. Than you will understand the response you got this morning .
Cummon Maurice…you can do it……
onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
Your head won’t spin off !
Go Dagger !
Its a hot humid night tonight. Two lost souls who long ago lost the ability to communicate and interact in society languish on a corner in a wealthy city in the united states.
The whole city knows they are suffering the most outlandish fate…being marginalized. Although all agree that they don’t belong there most simply make excuses for ignoring them. Most hope they will just GO AWAY….they just don’t want to be part of it…so they make excuses.
Tomorrow they will have spent another night holding the sidewalk down…and those who have never spent a night away from home will still not speak out.
Go Dagger ! !
Lets see if we ever hear from George Maurice again.
A name that made a boat comment…in a homeless woman thread…..and actually is a real name attached to someone at an address close to the marina mafia story.
George Maurice denies this…coincidince……we shall see !
Maybe Geo Maurice is just another in the endless names used by just a few who are cheer leading the cause of those who don’t know their constitution.
Maybe Geo Maurice is attached to that address, 221 “A” street for another reason.
Go Dagger ! !
I’ll give a hint.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rokW_OIVQvY
Go Dagger ! !
Richie
Been busy. Can you drop the boat comment, like I said, don’t own a boat! I’m not part of the Marina Mafia. I am a citizen of HdeG. If there is a person who owns a boat with that name than what can I do? I wish I could have a boat I would be in the Virgin Islands sailing away on it! I would love to have the Jimmy Buffet life! ok Richie why did you move your boat? Saw some videos on You tube bashing the marina and what looks like other boat owners. Hey I’m just like anyone else I like to see the otherside of a story!
Lets keep this thread for the ladies. Not Maurice. I have told you how to contact me already…thats that.
Go Dagger ! !
Nuff said!
But…Maurice…Baby …… you still haven’t contacted me to set to rest a few things. Don’t be afraid…its private.
You cant come in here…make a comment as 30 others have made in efferts to swerve the commentary…than just walk away as if it never happened ! That’s un-sportsman like.
Go Dagger !
Sorry Richie
My son fell and had hurt his wrist. He has a softball game this weekend. So I have been busy with him. I see the ladies are still on the corner. I wonder if they will move soon. You have to think that they might get splashed especially during the rain/snow that will come. I rather be home sipping a hot chocolate!
Just imagine. if we could get these two women to step forward & take control of the council & the mayor. can’t happen? it all ready has. got them running scared. been on the corner for years.
And apparently intend too stay’ there. come hell or high water.
Vet a true enough point.
Go Dagger ! !
Your not doing bad your self Richie. don’t let em wear you down. you have put up a good fight. it’s your Right. give em Hell.
g maurice…when are you going to contact me so i can ecplain the one in a million coincidence that you seem to have stumbled upon.
onekooleskimo@yahoo.com
Go Dagger ! !
Soon, I will give you a little hint George is short for Georgena! Yes I am a Female! If I stumble on something then hey Like you said I should play the Lottery! My last name sound like Maurice but it is spelled alot different than in my posts!
Well G…ok…you are lucky…ok….(chuckle). I will tell you someday what it was all about….you’ll be amused. Maybe you and yours over coffee. Thanks for the hint and that’s that.
One thing is for sure…and I would like to hear what you have to say….these ladies are in the twilight zone as a result of an administration in this city currently that wants to be unseen and stealthy. There are other issues that are being ignored also and we are less off because of it. Whats your take ?
On my initial reaction to you…..
What I will say is that there is a George Maurice attached to an address at the heart of the marina mafia and boats issue I’m involved in. That’s why I was looking at you with a jaded stare when you mentioned boats (chuckle)…a coincidence.
Go Dagger ! !
Looks Like Rain Tonight. I wonder if the old saying “ain’t got enough sense to come in out of the rain would hold up in court” ?
Go Dagger !
Toniht is Tuesday…its 63 degrees. At 10:45 pm I arrived home and entering my block I saw the two women bundled up across the sidewalk like a pile of discarded rags.
Wayne…are you proud !
Go Dagger !
I’ll bet Wayne “i didnt do it ” Dougherty slept well last night knowing the NAACP had him in good favor.
Mabey Wayne will order this an “unspeakable” issue in city hall…as he has done other issues. I guess if a tree falls and no one is there it doesnt make a noise…mabey it doesnt even fall.
The truth is that he has still gone back on developments deals…thrown out standing planning board members…screwed the downtown buisnesses by taking their parking….screwed the taxpayers of over 250,000 to divert a little criticizm….alienated the city from the county executive and attempted to blame him for Waynes lack of performance…..pissed all over the constitution in the marina mafia issue…pitted city employees against each other to stop a particuler story from rising to the surface….pitted the city council against citizens via lies and ill placed blame…solicited false statements from gun toting convicted liers, thugs, drug dealers…covered for employee theft…..covered for crimes comitted as policey…..misused office by using it to act on a misplaced grudge against a citizen…..and on and on !
With the above being fact and undenied by him to this date a year after each and every allegation here has been made…over and over again, why would he react to these two woman with any compassion…..he just doesnt care !
Go Dagger ! !
If there is one thing I have learned about Wayne Dougherty and his ilk…..they like to work…need to work in a society that is afraid to go public. That was exhibited in the parking issue when Wayne, my neighbor, panicked and did the stop work order and spent 250,000 plus to avoid a criticism. He needs the control of the situation…even if it means lieing or demanding an issue not be spoken of. More recently its his orders to city staffers, after a marina mafia member came forward and explained the circumstances surrounding his false statement, whereas they are ordered not to communicate with me in any way what so ever at the threat of their job. Even the city receptionist has been terrorized by this crazy activity that Wayne is exhibiting down town.
The one thing they, Wayne and his boys, cant take is public criticism….and that’s whats needed to fix this situation with the ladies.
Go Dagger.
54 degrees on Ostego st and Rt 40 !
Two distressed people sleeping on the sidewalk ! !
Wayne “i didnt do it” Dougherty sleeps well knowing he is still “popular”.
just proves what type of leader ship Haver de grace has. it’s falling in line with aberdeen city council. just ignore it. the problem will go away.
On a brighter note. it’s comforting to know. our public assistance recipient’s are doing there part too stimulate the economy. you can buy A $100.00 dollars in food stamps. ( independence card) for $ 50.00 dollars.
A bit stiff for the pocket? How about a wic voucher. for $ 10.00 dollars. that get’s you a gallon of milk a pound of deluxe cheese a dozen egg’s & 2 quarts of juice( grape or apple) depending on the voucher.
now there is a bout a $7.00 dollar saveing’s. unless you stop to think your tax dollars payed for it, in the first place.
And when they run out of independence money or wicks coupons…they can just wander Boston street looking for a bachelors party to go to with a few deputies.
Go Dagger ! !
Another night arrives….another night in a warm bed where Wayne Dougherty sleeps without a care in the world.
“they like me…..they really like me” !
Go Dagger ! !
59 degrees in Havre de Grace. The girls are bundled up across the sidewalk and against the walk way button for rt 40. There Beverly hillbilly shopping cart is blocking Ostego st.
Wayne is warm in bed.
Go Dagger ! !
Richiec maybe the next council meeting they should be advised of the town ordinance. blocking the side walk is illegal. if you can find the mayor & the council awake long enough to suggest it.
Have they served you’ with a trespass notice yet? preventing you from attending council meeting’s.
Vet…They …I should say He…is working on it…but yes…Wayne has allowed them to say Im tresspassing if i even look at the Marina…..I’m shunned. The people of quarryville have spoken. Of course anyone else is allowed to wander anywhere on those docks as most county residents know.
Back to the women….They have new rain slickers…traffic yellow. Someone keeps feeding those cats.
Go Dagger !
Vet…actually they avoid any thing that is appealable…I would love to drag them into a hearing. If they serve me with anything I of course would have been sued by the city, and would Immediately demand a hearing. They do not want a hearing…all they can do is stomp their feet !
I have heard, via a very good first hand source, that two nights ago the police told them to move and they told the officer…”NO…go speak to your chief”, than refused to speak further.
I guess that means when a cop tells me something Ill simply tell them they are wrong and to go away !
Go Dagger ! !
Go Dagger ! !
Richiec maybe Wayne dougherty would be so kind to come forth on this blog & explain to the people. why you were removed from the marina?
Well Vet…if you remember the marina mafia…a lot of inside knowledge of telephone calls was discussed by a few. In a few instances I believe it was him based upon the knowledge of the content of one on one phone calls possessed by the writer.
In the end Dougherty actually tries to deny at this point that he threw me out…he does a little “spin, shuck, an jive” dance and moves on publicly.
BUT…. In the security of city hall he terrorises any staffer who simply does there job if they wont be caustic and non responsive to me. This has been complained about by staffers.
Go Dagger ! !
you have a fit when anyone brings up the boat/marina issue and insist that they “bring it back to the real discussion–the ladies.” why don’t you stay on topic and keep your soapbox for citizen reports.
Seriously…are you kidding or what?
Seriously…
Ill be serious for a moment with you. The Marina Mafia and the Ladies on the street are interconnected. There is a difference when I connect them as they both relate to me…but when a “sniper”…interconnects then for vilifying reasons its very different.
Both of theses issues have to do with bad public policy and an unwillingness to see whats in front of the noses of the HdG city administration.
Seriously… I understand your comment about my supposed soap-box…but I see them as interconnected and should support each other as far as all encompassing critical comment on the HdG administration of Wayne Dougherty.
Seriously…I hope you better understand my logic on this now….and thanks for throwing yours in as maybe a comment by me was in order along these lines as I’m sure your not the only person who may have the same question (comment).
Go Dagger ! !
Richie, I’ve come to the conclusion that the Havre De Grace leadership is just about as lost and useless as the Aberdeen leadership. Everyday that I ride by the Havre De Grace Mascots I can’t help but think that the government has failed it’s tax paying citizens by putting an ineffective police chief in position and putting personal agendas ahead of the need and will of the voters that put these government officials in place.
RWinger again your observation’s are well taken. all richie want’s is a right to put his boat back in the marina.and he is useing his ”freedom” of speech to try and regain what he has lost.
Maybe the Haver de grace council. will take & invite and speak on the dagger.but there in the clique now they can for get the people who elected them. we here in aberdeen have ”Hollywood” he is lost but hopefully’ will be found.
Vet…the interesting thing is that the City of Havre de Grace is run in an iron fisted way by its mayor. The decision to harass me by not renewing my renewable lease was the sole decision of the mayor. The decision to not renew my lease was in part based on his personal grudge and part on his inability to take action.
There are a lot in the city whose hands and voices are hamstrung by this mayor.
My challenge to these ladies situation also brings out another example of inaction by our mayor.
Go Dagger ! !
Richie your ”mayor” has a criminal justice back ground. he is just practiceing law on you’
Vet……the thought has crossed my mind….but if he was still a sheriff there would always be the commissioner , lawyers , and judges in his way .
This must be a real thrill for him to be able to make an accusation without that little problem of proof and due process in the way. Aside for this being a wet dream come true for him…it also pisses all over the constitution on many levels.
He forgets the oath he took !!!!
Go Dagger ! !
So this Saturday morning…the 3rd day of a north east er… Its pouring raining…and muggy. Our ladies of the sidewalk are still on the corner under the rubber ventilation less yellow rain slickers. They did travel this morning all the way to the other side of Ostego st , abandoning their junk on the sidewalk for a time, but as of 1:13 they are back under the umbrellas. They have a lot of umbrellas!
Its been opined to me that they are quite lucid, although staying on that corner for their stated reasons and expected outcome would not indicate it, and if that’s the case they need to be removed as a nuisance. We have provisions in our code that allow the city attorney to bring an action if a citizen is doing something that detracts from property values on purpose.
Seems that the Dagger entries and blogs are being noticed….its just that very few will admit to it in city of HdG govt.
Spent about 45 Min’s yesterday discussing this and a few other issues on a casual basis with a dept head…and its a fact that its a tying of the hands and policy that stops us as a city from taking decisive and productive action using the tools available. This is of course my conclusion based upon the sum of the conversation and not a quoted statement.
Go Dagger ! !
Richie you know the law’s are for people who obey them. as for the ladies apparently they are a tourist attraction. or may be a landmark.but you have too give them credit there still there.
Haver de grace better take a look at what they have for mayor & council or better yet intice them to move to the Marina. I bet some body will move
There seems to be a family in distress living on a sailboat in the yacht basin. I don’t know their circumstances but this should be looked into. The boat is 26 feet only and winter is coming. The car is old…ratty…and has the cheap historic plates used by many low income people to circumvent registration…inspection…an d insurance fees. These plates are meant for collectibles and antiques…not to circumvent the law.
Where is our marina manager…or is he recruitting this guy, as he has so many other indigents, as a Marina mafia enforcer and YES-MAN ?
Lets not forget the death last winter of a guy living on a marima users sailboat .
Go Dagger ! !
IN FAIRNESS, I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THE PEOPLE I MENTIONED IN THE LAST POST HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH A THIRD PARTY, WHO HAS SPOKEN TO ME. THEY CLAIM THAT WHAT I HAVE STATED IS NOT TRUE. THERE IS NO REASON TO NOT BELEIVE THEM. ALTHOUGH I GOT THIS INFORMATION FROM THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE…ITS NOT BEYOND THE RHELM OF POSSIBILITY THAT ITS SIMPLY BAD INFORMATION.
OF COURSE IM SORRY FOR ANY DISTRESS I MAY HAVE CAUSED TO THEM. I HOPE THEY UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES AND WHEN INFORMATION IS DEFECTIVE THIS IS THE RESULT.
SORRY …DROP US A LINE HERE ON THE DAGGER.
GO DAGGER !!!!!
They are gone!
Sometime between 1 am and 8 am the ladies disappeared. A source at the HdG Police dept has only stated that …. “THEY ARE SAFE”.
Safe is good.
No other details are available at this time.
Go Dagger !
I wish them well.
Yep, safe.
They certainly deserve a lot of credit. if they were supporting issue’s they believed in. I too wish them well. RICHIEC there listening.
Yes they are safe and getting warm meals a bed to sleep in and medical treatment. Hopefully a mental evaluation also. Let’s see how long the Detention Center will hold them. Wishing them the best.
Are they in the detention center?
Unless the Police took them to HMH. I did see them out there this morning as I drove by. Maybe there being evaluated in HMH mental health ward. Where else would they take them?
G Maurice
incorrect….what time did you pass there?
Richie I saw the Police out there around I believe 530ish. I was coming home from my second job! May have been a little later or a little earlier What is this incorrect message?
Thats what im told…about 5 30 to 6 30
They are not in HMH thats the incorrect part..
Where ever they are I hope they are getting the help that they need.
I do have to
Where ever they are I hope they are getting the help that they need.
Will we ever get the facts about who picked them up, why and where they were moved? On the other hand if that information is personal, I understand—it’s none of my beeswax.
For now, I am relieved that they are safe and, I hope, sound.
Im working on it.
Iam also glad to see the two women gone and do hope that they are safe and getting the help that they really need. But i just hope that they dont refuse any help like they have in the past. I do know for a fact that they have refused shelter,food,and other forms of help and were very rude to alot of people that were just trying to show that they care. Im sure there are alot more homeless people that only wish that they would be offered half the help that these women were offered. Anyway Im just glad to see that maybe, just maybe, they are getting the help they need.
Homeless pair AKA Invisible Women arrested.
By RichieC
The homeless Pair that have graced the corner of Ostego st and Rt. 40 for a few years now have been arrested by Havre de Grace police. These women have been called the invisible women and the ladies on the highway. Mr. Jim Newby, Public information officer for the office of the Mayor, City of Havre de Grace, has released the following information for publication in the Dagger.
The homeless pair whose names are Mary Ann Pugh and Fatima Inez Haney of no fixed address were arrested without incident at approx 6:30 am on Friday Oct 16, 2008. They were arrested on warrants for 1. Falier to obey a lawful order 2. Disorderly conduct 3. Disturbing the peace by hindering passage.
The arrest was without incident. An ambulance from the Susquehanna Hose Company was standing by in the event medical assistance was needed. Their cart and other items from the corner are being stored by the Havre de Grace police. They were processed at the Havre de Grace police station and later brought in front of a District Court Commissioner for initial appearances. Each has been remanded to the detention center on bond of 2500 and 3000 dollars.
Go Daggr !.
If I’m not mistaken a bail review will take place tomorrow. Hopefully things will get sorted out for these people and if they need help it will be given to them…whether they like it or not….or we will know that they are just a detriment to our community.
Go Dagger !
Has anyone heard if the homeless women went for bail review yet?
I’am not sure there getting’ the help they need. as a rule they are transported to a hospital prior to lock up. apparently there being treated as ” vagrant’s” but there behavior is certainly’ not normal.
They were not transported to the Hospital prior to lockup. They were seen by an Ambo crew but refused treatment. I spoke with a Detention Center C/O and he says they are, sarcastically, a “treat” to deal with.
Get a life. The country is about to go under financially, the very folks that are complaining are one step from foreclosure or into it, your kids are tearing up the schools and the city, and you are worrying about two ladies that refuse assistance, have no weapons, sell no drug, and really do not interact with others unless someone insults them verbally.
I have lived in HDG all of my life. I pass by these ladies almost everyday and not once have they offended me by their actions. We have more pressing social issues in HDG than these women standing on a corner. Our Police Department’s working hours could be better spent during police work.
Have a great day and get a life !!!!!!
Honest Abe 1
I think the Police Department does an excellent job with the manpower they have.
OK JH, we’ve now established the fact that your a Havre de Grace police officer…..
So what if I am?
Welcome J H what jimmy clark, chooses to ignore is the fact they are breaking the law. as far as the financial stability of the country. may I suggest a second job & willingly pay more tax’s.
As for fore closure. FHA has and excellent program, forth comeing it’s called.
HELP FOR HOMEOWNERS.
Jimmy Clark…its all relevant…its all one package…unless you want to pick and choose for a reason…such as the lame excuse…the marina is not so important so lets let a few goons run roughshod over the rest. But Jimmy Ill bet you would be the first one to complain of a DPW truck doing driveways on city time…if you had a pot hole in front of YOUR house. That of course would be pressing.
Go Dagger ! !
I do not believe these women are a danger to anyone, or that they are both guilty of disturbing the peace. What I do believe is that they were an eyesore and an annoyance for town officials & police. They are mother & daughter and have been living this way for quite a bit longer than they have been in HdG. I have had occasion to help them and spent enough time with them to determine that the mother is certainly afflicted with mental health issues (most likely paranoid schizophrenia). The daughter, because she has been brought up under this umbrella & has spent so much time exclusively with her mother, has adapted some of the behaviors, but does not appear to have the illness. Overall, she is more soft spoken & have served as the voice of reason for her mother for manyyears. Their unwillingness to accept help stems, I think from the mother’s paranoia as well as from a history of victimization that has befallen them whilst on the street. Both women are bright, articulate and well-read. The daughter is exceptionally intelligent and will probably only have success if she is forcibly separated from her mother. I wish them them the best of luck & pray that Mary gets the help she so desperately needs. It would be great if Fatima, “T”, could go on to recognize her potential and I fail to see how she can do this in a jail cell.
I grew up with these two woman and you must have spent time with them because everything you said is absolutely correct. My heart is broken. I watched Mary work two jobs to put her daughter through private school. Fatima is very smart and so is Mary. I had a mom that didn’t do crap, so Mary was a role model to me. She took me on trips and outings. She was a beautiful single black mother that had money and lived in a beautiful home in a lovely neighborhood. She worked hard to get out of the projects and provide a better life for her daughter. When I was 16 and ran away from home, it was Mary that described my parent’s heartache and love for me – she talked me into coming home.
It pains me to read some of the comments about them from people who have no idea of whom they speak of. Mary was a bit overprotective and at times paranoid, but living in Brooklyn, NY you had to be if you wanted to raise a decent child, especially as a single parent. Mary got married, relocated and had another child – a son. At some point, her marriage failed and she became a single mother of two. Fatima left college to help her mother, but after a few more setbacks over the years, Mary must have suffered a breakdown. Fatima, ever the loyal and devoted daughter, is incapable of what she thinks of as “abandoning” her mother – much like that recent movie Grey Gardens. I tried so hard to find her and help, but you can’t help people who don’t even believe they have a problem. Her mom worked so hard and ran out of steam, and Fatima is just the most gentle and sweetest girl.
All people see are two homeless women. They are human beings with lives and people who love them because of all that they have done for others. Mental illness is a sickness that can destroy lives in the same way cancer and other diseases do. Some people just buckle under the hardships of life. When that happens, we need to show compassion. I know Mary & Fatima would probably be mad at me for posting this and putting their business out there, but I don’t care. I love them and Fatima is like my little sister! I have the chance again to help Fatima and this time will lead to a better outcome. Please keep them in your prayers:)
Paranoid schitzophrenic…I guess thats why they took down license plates…when do they get convinced they must strike first?
As for the one “realizing her potential”….a jail cell is no good but a street corner is good?
I hope your not a professional…..
Go Dagger !
I’am sure the mayor is looking forward to there return. they should have been taken to the Hospital for evaluation. instead of the bel air jail.
They refused treatment.
I hope they return so the mayor can see them again. Did Weis get their cart back??
ktr
ktr
Why, would you think the cart would be return ! The cart is being chromed and far as I
know will be parked in front of City Hall. I wouldn’t want to push that cart around in Weis’s with my food in it. Maybe someone on the hill might think nothing of it.
The mayor will put up a Huge Welcome sign on the corner of Rt 40.
They won’t be no ladies (w—–)of the night standing on the corner for this big event.
All you night ladies, will need to move up the hill for the night.
I’d love to see that, city hall looks like a dungeon and needs some flash. maybe it will rotate and have lights shining on it 24/7 !! i could have built a better looking shack out of lego.
Maybe they’ll put some bronze statues on the corner in honor of them??
These comments are of course aimed at the GUY who occupies the mayors chair…the guy who made this last so long…but we all want these dupes (women) to get help….that we all agree, if I’m not mistaken.
No Passes to the guy in the Mayors office. He has only lived up to one promise…hands on RULE of our city.
Go Dagger !
RichieC
I agree, Mayor has one promise only, you ready for this one?
Pass The Buck!!!!!
1. Re working a deal with a developer just days after taking office.
2. The parking disaster…hurting our down town businesses…and all of us if they depart.
3. Harassment of citizens by lashing out when founded and accurate defects were cited (marina mafia).
4. Throwing out all protocols and procedures in favor of subjectiveness and cronyism.
5. Throwing commission members off commissions without reason.
6. Tainting the objectiveness of our fine police dept by executive order.
7. Steering and hindering an investigation of employee theft and abuse of position through croynism.
8. Making personal grudge city policy, turning city hall upside down and creating a caustic atmosphere.
That’s off the top of my head ! This is a bad administration. It continues.
Go Dagger ! !
Candy…very much in the way he handled the marina issue I’m involved in…and the same thing he did for years in OUR neighborhood. Its never him…always someone else…but hes always behind what “someone else “is doing.
He just doesn’t care…its all about him…to the detriment of our good city.
Go Dagger !
ktr
The bronze statues are being placed on the hill so they can look down
at their corner, incase someone else takes their spot.
We just want a mayor who is going to follow the law and our policies…not a guy who rubs personal grudges and agendas.
And I also voted for him….thinking he was capable of separating his personal and professional agendas….NEVER AGAIN….never again to a lier…bold faced lier and manipulative shyster.
A mayor who, for personal reasons, is capable of doing what he did is not fit !
Go Dagger !
that corner would be a good place to prop up a sign for the Dagger!!
RichieC
He needs to return to the spot in Bel Air. I know him, I went to school with him.
I didn’t like him then, I certainly don’t like his a— now.
ktr…mabye so…
I would pay for it !!!!!!!!!!!
Candy..understood…hes always been this way. He isnt about to change.
Go Dagger
RichieC
The way I look at it is we need the following – New Blood in City Hall
Candy…very true…..
Im curious who will step up to the plate
Go Dagger ! !
Oh….
#9 . The handling of the Billiards Club….a very similar method as was used against me…predetermined outcome looking for justification…tearing our down town businesses apart. Pitting one against the other…instead of fostering cooperation for a common cause. This tactic was waylaid when Jim Miller stood up and said…ILL HANDLE IT !
Kudos to Miller on that one.
Go Dagger ! !
Candy…what spot is that……???? We all want to have that same point of referance.
Go Dagger !
the aegis ran a story, about the women it was simply based on Ho Hum who cares. The Dagger has continued the story until and effort was made to help them.
If there mental condition, does not allow them to think for them self’s. then some one else in authority must take control.
RichieC the Mayor is seething….
Long live the DAGGER
I hope he is… he will start showing his true colors…when he doesn’t control both sides of the conversation.
Go Dagger !
What many of you need to understand is that Ive discussed these issues with him adnausioum…to no avail….when he has no logical response to a challenge of point he solicits…he blows his top and ends the discussion without resolution.
He is the only Mayor that has acted this way to the exact dialog since I have lived here. He simply doesn’t think citizens have a right to speak out.
Go Dagger !
RichieC
I agree, he was so focus on the Billiards Club, and scratching and sniffing
where he has no business. That’s why he passed the buck to have the state do
his dirty work in reference to the women. Like I say he does Jack.
I, AGREE WITH ALL YOU GUYS.THERE NEEDS TO BE POSITIVE CHANGE. GET BACK THE OLD HDG, AS IT USED TO BE. SAFE AND EVERYBODY LOOKED OUT FOR EACH OTHER.LIKE IT WAS IN THE 60’S AND 70’S.WHERE THERE WAS PRIDE TO LIVE THERE. REMEMBER, ALL THE GOOD COPS YOU COULD TALK TO? I, BET IF YOU CHECKED THE ROAD UP THE HILL, YOU WILL FIND CART TRACKS RIGHT UP TO SOMEBODY’S HOUSE. I, WENT TO SCHOOL ALSO WITH HIM AND DIDN’T LIKE HIS BUTT SNIFFING ATTITUDE EITHER.
I agree with OUTLAW on the living in the 60’s & 70’s. I was raised to respect the law. I remember if you called an Officer a cop that was disrespectful. Back then they could be a little more forceful when they handled pieces of crap. I seen that when My Father got drunk and was out of control. My Father deserved the beating he got, cause he was trying to fight them and his Family! You know there are still good cops in town that you can talk with. I wouldn’t want to walk in their shoes. Lord knows if I was an Officer I would be tasing the crap out of the people who broke the law!
THANKS MAURICE, YOU MUST NOW F. MAURICE WHO WAS A COP YEARS AGO. VERY WONDERFUL PERSON WHO EVERYBODY SPOKE HIGHLY OF. ALOT OF PEOPLE GOT ASS WHIPPINGS BACK THAN. THEY ALL DESERVED THEM. ONE THING ABOUT IT, THE MAYOR DIDN’T RUN THE POLICE DEPT.THEY PRACTICE THE LAW AND DID WHAT WAS RIGHT. COULD YOU SEE THIS WITH THE WOMEN BACK THEN? IT WOULD NOT OF WENT ON FOR A WEEK.THE BIGGEST THING WAS RUNNING TEENS DOWN FOR DRINKING OR HANGING IN THE PARK. TIMES HAVE CHANGED, DOG EAT DOG WORLD. THE PEOPLE OF HDG NEED TO GET BACK CONTROL OF THE CITY AND YOU WOULDN’T HAVE ALL OF THIS B..S…TO START YOU NEED A NEW LEADER ONE THA KNOWS HOW TO BE ONE AND NOT MAKE RULES AND LAWS TO SUIT HIM.
I don’t know F. Maurice, I remember Chief Walker and Off Deaner coming to the Elementary School teaching us about gun safety. My dad use to cuss Off Workman alot. As for leadership of the town I have seen alot worse in charge. As for being chased out of the Park way back when, Yeah I must confess I was one of them. Never really hung out, but mainly drove through the Park. I also remember Ms Margarite who use to stand on the corner of Rev/Sen all hopped up on whiskey and she being run of by Police.
Wow…I love it when our real elders…the Maurices and Outlaws….and others…tell us a few things about our city. They truly have the inside scoop.
Go Dagger !
ps…JUST HAD A GREAT DESSERT AFTER SOME STEAMED SHRIMP AT MCGREGORS…AND A COFFEE WITH SAMBUCCA ON THE SIDE. Good guitarist too.
I’m jealous Richie you are living the life! I haven’t been to MacGregors for some time!
MAURICE, YOU ALSO HAD 6PACK ANNIE WALKING DOWN WILSON AND SEN.I, WAS CHASED OUT OF THE PARK A COUPLE OF TIMES. THAT’S WHERE EVERYBODY TOOK THEIR HOT CARS AND CRUISED I, REMEMBER DEANER, AND BROTHER, WORKMAN ALSO. GREAT TIMES. THE ONE IN CHARGE OF THE CITY NEVER HAD THIS ACTIVITY.MAYBE THAT’S THE PROBLEM.WE DIDN’T HAVE ST. WHOES EITHER, THEY WERE IN ABERDEEN….
RICHIE C., WERE NOT ELDERS.
G Maurice. just a comment.your right calling a police officer back in the 60”s a Cop was very disrespectful. & yes there were a lot of good officer’s. both state county & town.
one trooper that stood out was Ray cadillac. if he caught you speeding etc. he would make it a point to see your parent’s, as too your mischief.
Outlaw…
The view of a greater block of knowledge than I on Havre de Grace makes you an elder in my eyes…(using the term loosley).
Go Dagger ! !
I will second that RicheC. just think how nice it is for your ” friend” the mayor who can slip in a read your kind comment’s about him on the Dagger. and depart unnoticed.
I remember the name 6 pack Annie, but I never met her. I remember the older gentleman that sat in his chair outside his house in the 200 blk Wilson Street that growled at anyone who past by him. We gave him the name of Wolfman! So many colorful characters in town. I agree with Vietnam Vet and yes there are alot of Officers local, County & State that will go above and beyond the call of duty any time day or night. So happens I know a few of them. I can see them on any given day and they will stop and ask me how are you? How’s your son? I just wish we had a lot more Officers in this town and be able to supply them with the equipment to keep them safe so they can go home to their Families after their shift ends for the day.
I remember a lady we called scary Mary. She would wear all white almost like a nurse uniform. There were definitely some characters. Sat when the VA bus dropped off a group that you could always see around town. There was one gentleman that is to come into McGregor’s for coffee only and would not speak a word.
SAD, WE HAD ALOT OF STRANGE PEOPLE, BUT EVERYBODY KNEW THEIR LIMITS. NOBODY HURT ANYONE. AT NIGHT YOU DIDN’T SEE THEM ON THE STREETS-THEY HAD HOMES TO GO TO.MAURICE ANNIE WORE RED LIPSTICK ALL OVER HER LIPS AND CHIN- I GUESS SHE WAS DRUNK WHEN SHE PUT IT ON. SHE ALWAYS WALKED WITH A SIX PACK OF BEER UNDER HER ARM.IF YOU SAID SOMETHING TO HER ,SHE WOULD CUSS YOU OUT. THERE WAS TIMES SHE CRAWLED DOWN THE SIDEWALK.I, THINK THAT WAS THE BIGGEST THINGS BACK THEN, NO STEALING, NO KILLINGS, NO STABBING PEOPLEE IN THE BACKS. THE POLICE ALWAYS LOOKED OUT FOR CERTAIN ONES. THIS IS WHY I COULDN’T UNDERSTAND WHY THE WOMEN WERE THERE. IT HAD TO BE THEY WERE TOLD TO LEAVE IT ALONE…….BUT BY WHO? AND WHY? I KNOW CITIZENS TRIED TO HELP.
Outlaw
Candy’s back -How about those old good days when our Police force was it’s
finest -Mayberry RFD.
They didn’t take no shit from no one. You wouldn’t spit on their shoes. Your ass
would be in the holding tank.
Outlaw
I can remember six-pack Annie, god rest her soul. She wouldn’t take shit from no one. I can remember when we tried to get a beer from her, she went off, but we
laughed and she would yell you kids are going to get the shit knocked out of you.
But that was the good old days. Nobody felt threaten to walk the streets at night,
no I wasn’t a Ho. We felt safe because our finest police department would be there for us. This is what the town needs.
CANDY, YOUR SO RIGHT. ANY TOWN IN THE WORLD YOU SPIT ON AN OFFICER YOU WOULD BE ARRESTED. WHY WHERE THEY LEFT BE?THAT IS ASSAULT. THAT IS ONE CHARGE YOU PASS GO AND GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL.ISN’T IT INTERESTING NO BODY WAS TAKEN AWAY?
OUT LAW
I still don’t remember Annie. I do remember Nurse Mary. The Haunted History tour did a little story on her this year. I still say we have a fine group of Officers in this town. I’m sure they do their very best in keeping us safe. Hopefully the ladies are getting the help that they need.
Outlaw
Did Annie live in the Project?
MAURICE, ANNIE LIVED ON WILSON ST. ONE DAY SHE WAS ALL DRUNK, AND SET A POT OF BEANS IN HER BEDROOM TO COOK ON A HOTPLATE AND SAT HER HOUSE ON FIRE. THEY BROUGHT HER OUT OF THE HOUSE IN HER NIGHT GOWN, LIPSTICK STILL ON, CUSSING AT THE FIREMEN–NOT AT THE COPS—SHE KNEW BETTER. I, REMEMBER SEEING THE LADY IN WHITE DOWN AROUND GREEN ST. DID YOU KNOW IF YOU SPIT ON A COP AND YOU HAVE AIDES, THEY CAN CHARGE YOU WITH ATTEMPTED MURDER? RELIABLE SOURCE.CANDY, IT WAS ALOT LIKE MAYBERRY.NOBODY BOTHERED NO ONE, IF THEY DID, THEY DEALT WITH THE COPS- NOBODY WANTED TO DO THAT. THEY HAD AN EXCELLANT FORCE.ALL COPS WERE TREATED WITH RESPECT. CHIEF WALKER KNEW HOW TO RUN THE DEPARTMENT,HE DIDN’T HAVEIF THE MAYOR TRYING TO RUN IT.
Use to prowl the project’s. Wilson Bloomsberry Green etc. just after my marine corps day’s. liveing in a drain pipe. rideing the track’s,just trying to find my self a life. met a lot of poor people like my self.
Good people. poor but proud. the project’s are gone now. but not forgotten. Had a 357 magnum stuck in my face on Bloomsberry one night. the man ask me if I was ready to Die.
I said to him. kill me because if you don’t I will you. He said I have never met a man I feared and only a few I respected & drove off.
I wish I could remember Annie. I remember Chickboo, I think he was killed in another part of Harford County back in the 80’s. I lived in the area of Revolution Street not far from the Pat’s Pizza. It was nice, then one day Bradford Green popped up and some of the drug dealers moved in and that’s when my Family started having trouble with some kids in that neighborhood. No respect not even for your neighborhood. Kids running around late at night when they should have been in bed. The whole area went to crap. Now I’m not saying that the area is bad, just some of the people that moved in. It only takes 1 bad house to ruin it for everyone. I had several good friends back then that live in the village and I still keep in touch with them. Sometimes I wish things were as simply now as it was back then.
THE PROJECT WAS GOOD BACK IN THE 60 70 AND EARLY 80. A LOT OF HARD WORKING PEOPLE LIVED THERE. SOME WERE POOR BUT THERE WAS NO SECTION 8’S YET. VIET VET, YOU MUST OF STUMBLED THERE IN THE 2000’S. PROJECT IS GONE- NO HOMESTEADERS THERE. EXCITEMENT ALL THE TIME, BUT GOOD HEARTED PEOPLE.MAURICE, TOO BAD WE CAN’T GO BACK—-IT ONLY TAKES ONE BAD HOUSE TO RUIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
MAURICE, YOU MUST OF REMEMBERED BURT WHO RODE THE 3 WHEEL TRIKE UP AND DOWN THE SIDEWALK. HE WAS RETARDED AND WOULD CHASE AFTER US GIRLS HONKING HIS HORN ON THE HANDLEBARS.TOTALLY HARMLESS. THE COPS ALWAYS SPOKE TO HIM AND WAVED. HE LIVED RIGHT DOWN FROM CHIEF WALKER AND THE MAURICE’S.THERE WAS A GAS STATION ON THE CORNER,I THINK A BP STATION.I MOVED FROM HDG IN THE MIDDLE 70’S BUT GO THERE ALL THE TIME.I HEARD THE CECIL SHERIFF
DEPT. GAVE THE LADIES THEIR RAIN COATS.WHAT A SHAME……..HOPEFULLY THEY CAN GET HELP AND SURVIVE.I, FEEL THE HEADS WERE TURNED TOO LONG.TO BAD IT HAD TO GO ON LIKE IT DID.
I remember Burt, As a little girl I was afraid of him. I remember scratching my Father’s hand trying to get away from him because Burt was pedaling toward me. I wonder if he is still alive? My Family lived in the Projects several times. Even before I was born. We lived in the 300 Blk Wilson Street twice that I can remember. As for the ladies I wouldn’t have lived that long in the elements. I did hear that they had really bad sores on their feet. Can’t imagine why they would have lived like that.
Special to JM….
Its important to document their mental health…and make sure a judge looks long and hard…this wasnt to just harass them.
Go Dagger!
IT’S A SHAME THINGS CHANGE. TO BE ABLE TO KEEP THE SIMPLE LIFE.I, HOPE THE WOMEN GET WHAT THEY NEED, MAYBE NOW THE RIGHT SERVICES CAN ASSIST.I, KNOW THERE MUST BE SOME OUT THERE THAT SHOULD HAVE A HARD TIME SLEEPING AT NIGHT.
Outlaw…Ive enjoyed the blasts from the past from you and Maurice…and your thinking right….tolorance always, yet action when necessary.
We are all neighbors !
Kudos to you.
Go Dagger !
Actually, the HdGPD gave the ladies the rain jackets.
JH…that’s a kind thing.
Is there any information that is available…in general…about them? (if its appropriate). I think accurate info vs rumor is in order.
Go Dagger!
I really don’t know much aside from what I already said.
They’re still at the IPC I heard, probably for Medical.
I feel that these ladies should be helped instead of being put into jail. Yes I know these ladies I have meet them and they are nice people. They just need alittle help and maybe if people helped others this world would be a better place and there wouldn’t be so much violence. These ladies never asked for anything of people if you worried about the druggies instead of these homeless ladies things would be better.
I wished they would accept help from all the people that have stopped and talked with them. I myself stopped and spoke with them but they reused help. I just laid the items I had on the ground next to them and left. I hope they have accepted the services they had access to while in jail.
Maurice…The story will be told on Nov. 24th, in Belair, as to which way this is going to go.
GD!
The Court may order them go through some type of program through Social Services to help them get back on their feet. Would hate to see them back on the corner with Winter approaching! It was cold today.
Richie did I read a post on here that you had to go to court? If so What are you going to say?
Maurice…
I can only answer in court with what I know, saw, did. My opinion means nothing.
Remember, there are two things…there is the law…that’s objective…and than after the law has been served…a judge will decide whats necessary to be done about it.
I don’t see judges as being vicious and non compassionate.
A judge can allow a bargain that makes them agree to get and accept help…he can also order it….if they are wacky he can order more measures. I’m not aware of anyone grinding an axe for punishment for punishments sake.
I’m sure this will be worked out and AFTER the fact I’ll throw my two cents around happily.
Go Dagger !
i have read every last one of your posts. I first noticed those ladies back in 2004 when i returned to the united states due to my husband government job. After driving down 40 for quite a few times i started to assume they were homeless. One Sunday i had my husband to pull over at the gas station where they were standing and offer them twenty dollars. I must say they were the strangest black acting black women i had ever come in contact with. They would not talk and they sure didn’t want to take the money. i kind of forced them to take it and i must state i am a colored woman before anyone try to state racism. i must say most black women would not stand there like that. Something is wrong, after we had left i had the strangest feeling about them and trust me it was not good. I said to myself after that day i would never stop and offer them any help again. I always wondered where did they come from because black people don’t act like that. After reading all these posts. I will tell you what i think the problem is, that child was taken from them and they have know knowledge of where he is. Until that child is returned or at least your town dss let them see that child you’re going to have a problem on your hands. why didn’t the dss offer the whole family help???
the whole family should have been offered help. i don’t think they’re stupid either, everytime i passed by they were always reading. they have to be educated to write those sort of things on carts. Your problem is the child was taken and now they don’t want to leave due to they feel like if they leave they’ll be leaving the child behind.
Solve…
Thank you for your comment. Your LAST sentence may have a bit of truth to it. Its not practical…its not feasible…but it may be true from their perspective. The reality is that the kid was lost from living on the streets. (as the story goes).
GD!
Well from the beginning of this blogging it took for ever to read most of the posted comments. I will say there are a lot of concerned people who are willing to lend a hand to the ladies of HDG. It seems obvious that to date they have not been willing to accept. I myself have offered help when I noted them entering the Waffel House restroom while I was have a bite to eat very late at night. THEY REFUESED AND NEVER ANSWERED JUST SMILED BACK AT ME!!! THEY WERE NOT RUDE TO ME AT ALL. As for the comments in regards to the HDG Police Dept. and Mayor and lack of their assistance or to much assistance, I have just a few comments.
1. How many officers have turend their heads away at the over whelming drug problem running rampid in the local pubs/resturants? I wonder why officers have been noted in some bars eating and drinking while they let the drugs roll right under their nose? Is there a city ordance on the books about drug dealing?? Whoops thats a crime everywhere in the U.S not just HDG!!! Being homeless is everywhere as well.
2. The Police department spends a termendous amount of time harrasing the local citizens from the ages of 15-20 years of age. Following them thru the town asking their own kids to keep theirs eyes and ears open for certain people and than call them when they hear or see something so they can go on the chase. I am really sickened with that. Countless foolish tickets, fishing expiditions and laughing about it. To top it off spreading the word after the fact so the local rumor patrol makes five times of the situaion!! I wonder if any of the police officers have approached the 2 ladies and cussed them out as they have done to many people in the community?
3. The 2 ladies have nothing to do with how the local HDG Police Dept reacts to crime, homelssness, people loosing their homes, or if they live up the hill on 155 or in town. These 2 ladies appear to most people in the community to nead some sort of help but I am not so sure its the duty of the police to address them no more than its not their duty to get involved in civil matters. Their duty of keeping law and order I cant believe holds true for 2 ladies standing on the street corner with a shopping cart loaded with signs.
4. I never felt them as a threat to me or my family, although I did feel for them in the heat and the cold, however they sure did not appear to be under wieght or hungry. They sure did read a lot of newspapers.
5. Sad to think that many people feel as though they should vent on the police, however, if they stuck to their scope of employment so many would have not wrote the things they have about them in the comments above. I guess more people have come into contact with the curuption in the town just as I thought.
I hope for the sake of the ladies they are safe and will be able to resume their lives as they see fit. I am happy to see that they are 2 less people for the Mayor and City Police Dept have to concern themselves with now so they can focus on creating a better HDG and put togather a plan to defeat the local drug dealers and work on true crime
Good Luck ladies and Merry Christmas if you believe!!!
Jen, I was just wondering if you have seen the drug dealers downtown? If you have, did you call the Police? I have seen deals go down and made a call to their station. I live in town and I hate to see deals going down. As for harassing teenagers, well if another one of them runs in front of my car while skateboarding I’m gonna hit them! Makes you wonder if the parents know what their kids are doing! I do know of one situation where several punks where hitting people with their skateboards while they were coming out of a business in town and laughing about it later. I think our local PD is doing the best job that they can with the drugs in town. I understand that you can actually walk down Girard Street now!
G. well said
GD!
Thank You Richie good luck on the 17th!
Sorry Richie I just read in another post that the 17th was cancelled.
Still looking for article from The Record. As I said it was disgusting, not compassionate; more a side show! Three pages!!!
Wanted to say, my problem remains with the “arrest.”
There are 4 to 5 other homeless people living in our city. Who also stay in the same location, day after day, without arrest.
So yes the sky is blue, and people standing in one place is normal! Others set precedence, but remain unarrested some 20 years later.
With regard to frostbite. A friend had a recent conversations with one of our local officers. He indicated that prior to the arrest, he knew first hand the “mother” lost toes due to frostbite.
Interesting, I wonder how this officer managed to get this woman to remove her shoes, and examined her missing toes.
Sounds like urban legend.
You cannot arrest one group of people for doing something that other people do without arresting them also! Its discrimination.
Secondly the only realistic solution if Adult Protective Services did not help, would be to post a city wide ban or restriction on loitering.
Other cities have done it. Then arrest.
Mentally ill or not, it was not the right..
Not a Christain, but since most folks state they are: WWJD?
(That by the way is what Mr. Malin stated to me!)
“They were arrested on warrants for 1. Falier to obey a lawful order 2. Disorderly conduct 3. Disturbing the peace by hindering passage.”
I was just wondering what were the facts to support the charges.
Mabye some photos and wittnesses.
In response to comment number 86 I will say that it would be particular offensive to see anywho abuse antoher person with any object let alone a skateboard, however the point was in reference to following, very well mannered teenagers and young adults while driving their vehicles through the town and then pulling them over. Waiting and baiting high school students to leave school at the end of the day. I suppose if you consider a job well done by the police department the most recent bust in town printed in the local paper. Pretty sad to see people doing drugs in the alley ways in front and behind the local VFW. Full grown adults!!! Real sad!!! Right in the bank parking lot…..The drugs in some of the local pubs is enough to keep me from going in. Its good to hear that Girard St appears to be safer. It has only been full of drugs for over 15 years and the police department has been right around the corner even before they relocated. I suppose they had their eyes closed or was it just not a priority for so long. What ‘s up with good old fashion police walking the beat and keeping law and order. Oh that would require some very large out of shape police men and women to get some exercise and god for bid they may have to enter into a foot chase they would likely have a heart attack and fall to the ground. Of course they would have to get out of their vehicle and they would not be as intimidateing.
So sad but the 2 ladies have nothing to do with the local police department, however, reading through the blogs many people have found fault with them in many ways involving the ladies. The police department should play no role in those 2 ladies there are many other goverment agencies that could have assisted them over the years. It is not the duty of the police, it just became their responsibility and that makes them look bad in many peoples eyes!!
Happy New Year………………….
All I know is it was down to 20 degrees last night.
Go Dagger !
Jen,
I blame the court system for letting those dealers out. If you pull any of those dealers up in the court system you will see that if they stay in jail for 2 weeks and get out before their trial they get time served! I do know of one homeless person older black man, who has family in town. He gets his check each month and goes out of town for a week comes back and roams the streets for the rest of the month and he apparently likes living that way. That info comes from a Family member of his. As for the white female that looks like a boy, she has Family that lives on the outskirts of town. I was in the ER several months ago with my son and I over heard her say that she does not want to live at home because they make her take her medications. As for foot chases I would think why do you want to become in a foot chase with a crack head? Just wait until they get a few feet in front and their heart will burst from all the drugs they do! I have no compassion for any dealer or anybody who chooses to do drugs! I guess you can say I’m not in the Holiday spirit yet! I still think the Officers are doing the best they can with what they have to work with. Try sitting in on a Council Meeting.
G Maurice…..
Wow….that was golden and to the point with pinpoint accuracy. Well done!!!
Go Dagger !
Thank You Richie, I have to go do something nice and get into the Holiday spirit! It’s not like me to rant like I just did!
Merry Christmas!!
Just curious as to what “sitting in a council meeting” has to do with being a police officer?
With today’s economy, Police, DPW Fire Dept any department within the govenment are trying to work with the equipment they have. It’s a shame that any persons working in the Community have to work with equipment that may not be up to par. Anyone can attend a meeting and see how our local Govenment has to scrape by on just the bare necessities. I’m sure being a Police Officer is hard enough, but can you imagine not having the proper equipment to help them do their job? You know what it’s the same as in trying to raise your family in this economy. You do the best you can with what you have.
Sitting in a council meeting might make you understand some things…
GD!
i think its about time sumbody did something about these ladies -john hdg
i also believe that the h.d.g. police are doing the best that they can, but there is one particular officer that im not too fond of. He couldn’t do a foot chase if his life depended on it. he has been rude to myself and treated the business i worked for like we were the criminal instead of the victim. he doesn’t like to get out his car and he was suppose to be doing foot patrol the other day and instead hung out in the store for 45 minutes,and the weather was nice that day. im sorry to rant on about this,but i do believe the department has improved. i hope the two ladies are getting help now and realize that when they were being rude to everyone that most of us were just concerned and wanted to help. merry Christmas to everyone!
Any updates?
Ms. Haney was found guilty at trial by Judge Copper. Ms Haney fired her court appointed attorney in court and defended herself. Her mother remains in Spring Grove Hospital in Baltimore. Ms. Haney was warned by the judge that she could be sent back to Spring Grove if she didn’t stop bantering with the court. Ms Haney cross examined all three witnesses yet refused to testify on her own behalf although on a few occasions she attempted to address why she shouldn’t be allowed to stand where she was and why people feel strongly about it. This straying was quickly stopped by Judge Cooper who kept the trial on point…the charges.
GO DAGGER!
Having first hand knowledge of the Police Department I must state that it is a joke!! Officer’s over 350lbs. Give me a brake!! How the hell are they going to run up 3 flights of stairs to save anyone? A Supervisor that was promoted because he was African American and was done so at the direction of an African American Council Women. Supervisors who spend the entire shift in the station unless it’s time to go get something to eat. Or being an officer and having some home improvements done on your house knowing one of the workers has an open warrent. And yes there are officers who spend their off duty time “hanging” in the same bars as the drug dealers. I gues the attitude is if I’m not “on duty” I don’t have to do anything about it!! The department, in my opinion, has went to hell in a hand basket since Chief Holt left!! A new female chief who wants to run the department like the sheriff’s office!! A department where officer’s spend more time going after each other than they do criminals!! This is what the new “powers that be” allow and sometimes encourage with in the city’s police department!!!
The PD has gotten a lot better in a short time.
Thanks for the input MC. Other than the fact that you’re full of shit, it’s a great report.
Mr. Yensen I beg to differ as I was employed by the City of Havre de Grace and I have seen all of those things first hand!!!
there’s some Hefty Corn Fed Deputy’s, on the Bel Air sheriff’s department that are nothing short of a disgrace. there’s no way they could have passed a physical with out being classifed ” Obese”
MC what department did you work in? Do you still work for the city? Just curious. You seem to have a lot of “facts” that you call true.
Well at least they are not trying to fight bouncers downtown because it was closing time and was asked to leave!! Hey fellow keep your shirt on!!
I worked for the Police Department for quite some time. I no longer worker there as I went on to bigger and better things!!
I will not give my name as I do still work, from time to time, in Havre de Grace and don’t want to be targeted as I know they have done, and been pulled into, in the past.
Post #10 makes no sense. Could you explain the meaning?
It’s May, 2010; are the ladies still there?