Presidential candidates John McCain and Barack Obama will take the stage together again tonight (Tuesday) during a 90-minute televised “town-hall” debate in Tennessee.
On the heels of the hotly debated debate about who won the vice presidential debate, Sens. McCain and Obama look to step things up a notch from their first encounter, which was largely a snooze-fest compared to the Sen. Joe Biden vs. Gov. Sarah Palin face-off.
With less than a month until Election Day, the latest national polls indicate the Obama/Biden ticket has a 7-8 percent lead over McCain/Palin, but as we’ve seen, these things can turn on a dime.
How do Dagger readers feel about the race, the candidates, the future? Once again, keep it clean…
{democracy:9}
I suppose I’ll start things off…
After watching the VP debate, I’m terrified of Palin, frankly. Biden was actually impressive to me and it seems like Obama, he and McCain could all hold their own and I’d feel secure with any of them representing me and our country. Palin is so obviously a political construct that it’s maddening to me.
She refused to answer questions – and outright said she wouldn’t. She refuses media interviews. She purposefully peppers her dialogue with the same folksy common-man talk that Bush made famous. And the few questions she did answer were largely nonsensical and just seemed to be wild stabbings to thrust out phrases like “Main Street,” “soccer mom,” “heartland,” “support our troops,” etc.
As an American, GOP or Dem (and I’m neither), I consider her inclusion on the ticket a slap in the face. I don’t want a leader who is ‘just like me.’ I want someone better than me.
That’s why I’m not running for office, GoshDarnIt.
How many of you are ready to simply vote against all incumbents, regardless of party affiliation? Let’s see a show of hands!
/raises hand 🙂
I don’t think Palin is that bad. I was actually encouraged when I read that she vetoed a bill that denied benefits to gay couples because it was unconstitutional even though she’s basically anti-gay. She’s no John Locke, but as least it was anti-party.
Because she is unknown, the left is clinging to anything scary, and Mccain’s camp is not letting her speak her views. I would bet she has many conservative and liberal views, but in today’s political world, you are only allowed to cater to your party.
Look at McCain, he has been toeing the party line, contradicting things he has said in the past just to pander. Obama doesn’t have to pander, because he already is on the far left, or at least votes that way.
We are being conned on both sides.
Back to Palin…She’s not ready for prime-time. Another term as governor will help, since they ain’t winning this time. She’ll stay in the spotlight because the ratings were through the roof at the VP debate, and it certainly wasn’t because of ol’ Joe.
She IS that bad because she’s a cliche with no substance who is paraded out there to smile, not answer direct questions, and melt away tough situations by dropping a wink or any one of 4 key phrases – Main Street, hockey mom, Goshdarnit, USA. How can you take her seriously?
How can you be encouraged by someone who refuses to answer a question or take interviews from the media? We’re being conned on this one bigtime and we deserve better than that.
I had similar feelings when everyone was heralding Obama as the second-coming of Christ. He’s not, but he is far, far beyond Palin.
Looking at things sociologically and psychologically is what has me flummoxed. I like to strip away the issues and look at who I want leading ‘my team’ in the best and worst of moments. Because in the end, we all fundamentally want the same things and I have to believe all the candidates are about 95% alike. It’s the art of winning and the ‘game’ of playing politics when so much is at stake that I find disgraceful.
You inadvertantly hit the nail on the head, all our country cares about is star power and right now Palin is fresh and new. It makes for good headlines, but horrible politics.
My problem with the country, and the current political spectrum, is the lack of true thinkers in office. Go back 200-plus years and look at all the great thinkers who were running the country. Who are the great social philosophers and where are they? Instead we have advisers who are great at playing campaign games.
I’m sick of the lawyers, no offense BY. I’m sick of the lobbyists. I’m sick of those who claim that Obama inspires them. I’m sick of those that point to McCain’s service as qualifying him to be president. I’m sick of those that think great change is coming and endorse Biden to be VP. I’m sick of those who think Palin is even close to being ready to server on the national scale.
Where are the true leaders? GWB is far from a real leader, Clinton wasn’t a leader, GHWB wasn’t strong enough. Reagan was a great leader, but had many other flaws.
This is America, and we can’t find anyone better…
…or perhaps those that are better want nothing to do with D.C.
Brain…you last sentance says it all.
Go Dagger !
Brian your second to last paragraph says it all…across the board.
Go Dagger ! !
I will just agree with everbody. if we can’t pick a few for mayor & council & get somebody that has a half and idea of what’s going on. were not ready to”pick” a president”.
Brian;
A few thoughts about politics. As you know I’m a political junky and have never shaded my philosophy. First thought; 50% of the people voting are below average! Next; anyone smart enough to do the elected job at any level is also smart enough to stay away. The one that takes the most thought to get wrapped into but is also the scariest is that we hire/elect folks based on some cobbled up resume, but then we fire or vote against them based on their performance or character. That isn’t too bad when you’re dealing with a janitor but sure is a problem when dealing with a Commander in Chief.
As for me, Palin doesn’t scare me so much as Obamma. He is truly a post turtle. A post turtle is the animal you see on the top of a fence post out in west Texas. When you see one ther are two things you know and two you don’t: You know the turtle didn’t get up there by himself and he has absolutely no idea what to do now. What you don’t know is who put him up there and why!
Finally, I agree with Steve, vote against all incumbents. My hand is way up there.
Hands are up…Everyone gets an A-
I’ll stick to sports, thank you very much.
Richie C, why are you not doing the pigskin prognistication? It’s the first ever Dagger Sports contest and you are not in? It’s just not right-
Did you know that the bomb factory that exploded on march 6, 1970 in Greenwich Village NYC, the one that killed William Ayres, (Weather Underground), long time girlfriend and two others while in the process of assembling a nail bomb, was targeted at a dance at Ft Dix New Jersey. Over 30 Weather Underground pipe bombs were found in the rubble of the raised building.
Did you know the survivors were rescued from the rubble by an off duty housing authority policeman.
The targeted soldiers at Fort Dix were both drafted and volunteers and the off duty cop rescuing them show that their venom, enough venom to kill and maim, was truly evil incarnate and without discretion as to their victoms.
Go Dagger ! !
One thing remains very strongly on my mind this morning after watching last night’s debate from beginning to end: McCain said he wants to cut defense contractor spending. He said it plain and clear.
The problem with this is that there are a vast number of defense contractors out there who work hard to get the job done and keep America safe. APG happens to be the largest employer in Harford County and most of the employees at APG are defense contractors.
These people are hard working middle class individuals who hold titles like driver, technician, engineer, secretary, photographer, mechanic, construction worker, janitor, tech writer, IT, etc. Believe it or not, their jobs are very important to this country. More money is wasted on government employees than contractors, as government employees get higher salaries, more vacation time, better benefits, and can make obscene amounts of purchases. But it’s the little guy McCain wants to take money from.
If McCain cuts defense contractor spending, there is a scary possibility that we’ll see a lot of these people losing their jobs.
Molly…I keep Kosher….(just a terrible joke…..)
I got you a pic of yankee Stadium and it turned out terrible…both stadioums in it…Ill try again.
P.S. to molly…I have to cross the Mcombs bridge and take the pic with the good camera from the Harlem side …but ill get it. The new Yankee Stadium is beautiful.
kloh,
When talking about defense contractor spending, APG is small-time. In fact, APG will be giving more money to contractors than ever with BRAC. The problems aren’t with the individual contractors or their companies, it’s more with the government budget offices that allow contracts with $20k toilets and sinks.
And remember, the government pays your company usually twice as much as your hourly rate for your work, sometimes more.
If you are a woman, and especially an older woman who lived actively through the inception of the “the women’s movement,” you cannot afford to vote for the Palin/McCain ticket (as she has stated it in several campaign rallies.) This is a dangerous person for us all – individually because of her disregard for the rules and as a country because of her threats against other nations (including war with Russia!?!?) Look at McCain – she feels that she is half a heartbeat from the presidency but is too ignorant (and I mean that literally) and arrogant (that is obvious) to know that she is not qualified to be president of our country. Listen to her speak and be very afraid. This country and world have too many problems and too much danger for a unprepared novice of limited intelligence and no experience to be at the helm of one of the most influential countries of the world.
Everybody sees a boogeyman when the words “defense spending” come up.
Healthcare expense is the 800 pound gorilla in the room.
“Health care spending is 4.3 times the amount spent on national defense.
In 2005, the United States spent 16 percent of its gross domestic product (GDP) on health care. It is projected that the percentage will reach 20 percent by 2016.
The average employee contribution to company-provided health insurance has increased more than 143 percent since 2000. Average out-of-pocket costs for deductibles, co-payments for medications, and co-insurance for physician and hospital visits rose 115 percent during the same period.”
This is where the real focus should be. Burundi spends more of it’s GDP on defense than we do.
-sorry, I should have attributed them figures!
http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml
SZQ,
In your opinion, what makes someone qualified to be president? And what rules are you referring to?
I have already stated that I don’t think Palin is ready. But neither is Obama. McCain is too old, and Biden is too old-guard.
SZQ- Are you still pining for HRC to get back in the race? Wait till 2012. She’s already getting her campaign posters together. She’s going to run, even if it is against an incumbent BHO.
At least by 2012, she can claim she’s qualified, if not a little arrogant.*
*(adj)-feeling or showing self-importance and contempt or disregard for others
Steve,
Layoffs are already taking place at some contracting companies at APG. Even APG aside, there are so many other places that rely on defense contrators.
I do agree that the the bigger problem is the government budget office, but!
McCain didn’t say he was going to cut down on government spending–he said “defense contrator” spending.
McCain will not cut defense spending completely. He will ask that the contractors
get paid a fair amount and not double the bill for govt cotracts. If a plumber with a small business charges $1,000. but another company charges you 10,000., who would you pick. This will also help toughen up the competiton and give other local companies a chance. Remember, McCain is for the supports the war and our troops. You dont think the democrats will cut defense? HELLO!!! The are against the war and our countries safety. They have fought homeland security for 8 years! They didn’t want to fund our troops! My prediction is if Obama get is, he will be shot… than we have Biden…Terror attack, 9/11 part 2 .Would you fear him or McCain if you were a terrorist? Not only does Mccain have the knowledge and connections when it comes to war and our safety but he has Palin who is not in the Washington DC circle. She has always kept her self seperate and did what she though was right ,not the polititians. Is is so bad that she was a normal wife, mom and hockey mom? She can relate to the “people” more than any polititian in DC.
How can anyone even think of voting for Obama!!!!! He should not even be a candidate! He has had so many ties to terrorist and anti – americans it is sickening! His education at Harvard was paid for by Saudi Arabia!!! Hello!!
Where were some of the 9/11 terrorists from!!! He is buddies with that Ayres guy who aready tried to attack us and wishes more damage was done on 9/11.
His preacher… for 20 years … hates this country!!!! What is wrong with you people!! Just think of this one….. the terrorists train and brainwash kids as young
as 5 to hate our country. What if Obama was pick as a young child, to be trained as an American, educated as an American, as a tool(weapon) against our country. Might sound far fetched but I thought kids being trained to kill was far fetched too! Why would a terrorist govt pay for him to go to Harvard??
Democrats are not against our country’s safety; being able to see the grey in issues that face us today and say this war was a mistake is not unpatriotic. Democrats do want to fund our troops; if you use McCain’s logic about how Obama has voted against our troops, McCain has voted against our troops as well! I was really hoping they wouldn’t do this he voted for this, he voted against this stuff, as when you’re in Congress there is so much in one given bill you’re voting on! A Senator might vote against a bill because of the inclusion of Part B and then someone can accuse him or her of voting against Part A. It’s foolish and inherently slanted, on both sides.
Why is Palin being “not in the Washington DC circle” such an important reason to vote for McCain/Palin? Does that qualify her to be vice-president? No! My mom is a normal wife, mom, and soccer mom (when we were younger; does that qualify her to be president? No! She can relate to the people too but when it comes to the two people who will represent our country to the world, I’d rather that they were intelligent individuals who are respected by other world leaders (like Obama and Biden) than someone I could have a beer with!
Besides, Obama is a pretty down to earth person with an average backgroun…who only owns one house!
The democrats are only in favor of our troops if they can limit it to a time table. Sure we will fund them for 12 months that they get nothing is basically what they voted. McCain voted for complete funds except when the wanted a time table tacked on. He is not willing to ever leave our troops hanging!
As far as Palin, she is not just a mom, she is an Intelligent, strong and educated
candidate. I think she easily proved herself during the debate. Biden has been an active politition for 30+ years and with 5 weeks notice, she stood up to him and proved her ability. Even Biden doesn’t believe that Obama is a good choice as president and has said it in public himself.
That is a very scary thought about Saudi Arabia helping Obama. How was he ever in any political office in the USA.? Signs of a terrorist is all over him. How will people deal with themselves if the vote him in and find out the truth later. I would have to vote for McCain wether I liked him or not.
to usa: where did you get your information? a mccain website? my daughter is so involved in politics and puts many to shame on her knowledge of the candidates…I will have to ask her about this one. I would imagine if that were true it’s doubtful he would be running for president or be allowed to with so ties like that. Anyway , the Republicans are no better, bush had business ties to the bin ladin family….that was in the news years ago…
We all have to vote for someone and all I see from McCain in spewing of hate and racism….why would you refer to someone as “that one” instead of referring to him by his name? I’m not the only one saying this….many on the news channels are…and I agree.
I will find out about the other info you posted and get bk with you on that.
Have a great day!
“usa”, please listen to yourself. You should really re-watch the movie “Conspracy Theory”, keeping in mind that it is a make-believe story, with actors, who are reciting lines from a script. “f” you are buying wholesale into to knee-jerk freakout fearism. What’s worse than the town fool who goes around screaming that the sky is falling? The educated person who repeats the moronic cry with even less evidence to believe it’s true than the first guy.
Beyond that, who hasn’t already made up his or her mind? Seriously. I’m done being interested in discussing this thing with people who even use the word “terrorist.” If you’re mind is made up, admit it, and move on. But don’t just go around spewing whatever nonsense you picked up off Rush Limbaugh. You know what? McCain was actually the spawn of a man-goat and a female Nazi scientist, and he was raised by blood sucking vampire bats!!!!! How can you people even think of voting for him?!?!? He shouldn’t even be allowed to be an Earthling!!! USA! USA! USA!
This is a reprint from the New Your Times of a article printed on Sept 11, 2001. That day coincidentally is the day that a second attack of terrorism was made against the pentagon…the first attack being by the guy interviewed in the article.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&scp=10&sq=Bill+Ayers&st=nyt
Its that timing like hitting the lottery or what?
Go Dagger ! !
Reprint from Ny Times from sept 11 2001 artical. The day that the pentagon was attacked again…the first time by the guy in the interview. Is that timing the tri-fecta or what?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&scp=10&sq=Bill+Ayers&st=nyt
Go Dagger ! !
I have posted this twice and both times it hasn’t posted…so here goes again…On Sept 11 2001 the new York times published an interview with BIll Ayres. Bill Ayres was with the weather underground and was responsible for a series of bombings resulting in deaths. One of these bombings was the pentagon. In the interview he states ”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.”
Ayres shows no remorse throughout the interview and I cant understand why hes not in a cell right now. As a child he liked to play with explosives according to the article…How did this rich kid (father CEO of a Chicago area power company) become a mad dog bomber than a educator.
For more great sources go to wikipedia and use the sources…especially #44.
The wiki referance (keywords) “Weatherman_(organization)”
This association is more and more disturbing.
Go Dagger !
I just wanted to throw my two cents out there about the comment that was made about William Ayers and the Weather Underground. Any violence against another human being is wrong, period. That being said, to my knowledge, the Weather Underground bombed many government buildings, but never injured a single person. And that was the point.
In a time that was so tumultuous, and it was obvious that what the United States was doing in Vietnam was wrong, the Weather Underground sought to take a different approach to protesting. It was risky and not something I would ever do. But you have to admire the thought on their part to want the United States to realize the magnitude of what was going on in Vietnam. Like I said before, violence against another human being is wrong. So, if there is a demonization of the Weather Underground because they possibly had the idea to harm other people, there should also be the same demonization of the United States government and anyone who supported the war.
No matter what side you think you’re on, if you’re supporting killing, you’re wrong.
Carlin…the brinks robbery…2 or 3 dead…nyak ny…the town house explosion…three dead….feb 16 1970 San Frisco police seargent killed by a weather underground bomb.
Thats 7 I count.
Go Dagger…
Carlin…
What are nail bombs…..anti personell wepons…..30 found in the wrecage of the bomb factory in Grenwich Village in 1970.
oh and carlin….we know absolutly that Charles Manson never killed a soul.
Go Dagger ! !
Carlin you are so wrong…you dont justify murder…and try to equate the activities of the government..as flawed as it is….with rich kid punks that have nothing better to do with their time than put bomb factories in million dollar Grenwich Village town houses.
Go Dagger.
Technically the 3 killed in Greenwich Village were all Weathermen themselves, as it was an accidental detonation, but more importantly, what does any of this have to do with the presidential election?
Please explain to me the relevance of the Weather Underground because I don’t think there is any.
I think it’s a cheap distractive parlor trick, which has worked perfectly because in the course of a half-dozen posts now neither the name of any candidate nor the office they might be running for has been mentioned.
The economy at its worst point since the Great Depression? Who cares, let’s dissect the intracacies of 1960s extremists!
God Bless America
Charles Manson…just another approact to protesting
“Carlin on October 9th, 2008 11:48 am …..
“In a time that was so tumultuous, and it was obvious that what the United States was doing in Vietnam was wrong, the Weather Underground sought to take a different approach to protesting.””
Brian….
A house sits on a foundation. Its the first thing built. The foundation very rarely changes although the house may get upgraded and a new veneer. The house always has the same foundation.
Go Dagger !
Technically nothing…that was an ammo depot for them. 30 pipe bombs…morters….dynamite with fuses attached….were they going Ice fishing…I think not…considering that the Weatherman had openly declared war on America.
Go Dagger !
To me, the association with Bill Ayers isn’t about Obama hanging with a former terrorist. It’s about him hanging with, and working with and for, someone whose ideas about education and reform are against my beliefs. He’s an admitted Marxist.
Whether that’s enough to keep me from voting for him to be determined.
So without saying so directly in 7 consecutive posts, you’re convinced there is a substantial link between Obama and the Weather Underground.
You realize continued spewing of unresearched, unfounded, untruths like this usually results in convincing people to vote exactly opposite of how you’re trying to convince them to vote.
And Steve, you saying Obama ‘hangs around’ with Ayres is as speculative as me saying they were only vaguely aware of one another in Chicago political circles.
Which is more dangerous, Obama meeting Ayres at a fundraiser or McCain meeting and associating with corporate CEOs that look to shape and benefit from his presidency?
It’s interesting that the informal Dagger poll has McCain/Palin ahead of Obama/Biden by a vote of 16-14, with 2 undecided voters.
Will it be that close on Election Day?
I didn’t mean hanging around, just meant it as hanging in the same circles; working for the same political action committees.
And no, it won’t be that close, at least if ACORN has it’s way 😉 zing!
Here you go Steve: http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/index.html
Enjoy 🙂
In case anyone doesn’t feel like clicking the above link, the founder of Alaska’s Independence Party said this: ““My government is my worst enemy. I’m going to fight them with any means at hand.”
The Palins’ connection with the Independence party is many times less tenuous than this Ayers nonsense.
(“Keep up the good work,” Palin told AIP members. “And God bless you.”)
And the founder was murdered 15 years ago. I read their current mission statement, and it sounds like they are libertarians. I don’t live in Alaska, so I don’t know whether this group caters to the local unions, which Todd Palin belongs to, or maybe even local Eskimo tribes, of which Todd palin is an ancestor of.
Is it worth investigating? Absolutely. Would it have an impact on her policies? Possibly, we should here more about the connection. Alaska seems very foreign to the continental US. This could be something, it could be nothing. No one knows, even the press.
If you watch Fox news there was an investigation done by Hannity & Colmes
in referance to Obamas education source and terrorist ties. I feel this is a more reliable source than any web site that starts with”www.salon.com” Nothing like a bunch of jealious old bittys gossiping at the salon about a sucessful attractive lady and her handsome husband and family. Pretty sad!
right. and the best source for reliable information on obama is obviously an “investigation” done by FOX news. come on.
here’s my two cents…as unfortunate as it is, the campaign trail is every bit as ridiculous and papperazzi-laden as hollywood. lies, word twists, bended context…you name it, and then the public has effectively made the candidates the equivalent of brit or lindsay. it sucks, but its the way things are working right now.
steve asked a few posts back where all the independent thinkers are. they’re there, they just can’t raise the funds necessary to play this new political game and get their voices heard.
basically, i think that nothing that has been said since either candidate was announced can be taken at face value. why? because it’s all part of this partisan popularity contest. you know very well that when you hear one candidate saying his opponent voted X number of times for blah blah blah–it means very little. bills get tacked on and tacked on and tacked on with crap for the sole purpose of making them not pass. just an example of some of this b.s. both parties are throwing.
rather, i think that as voters it behooves you to do your own research (NOT on the candidate’s website, or FOX news or MSNBC) of who they are, what they’ve done, what they stand for.
i read obama’s book a year or two ago when he was getting a little bit of fame from his oprah stint. back then he wasn’t even whispered about running for president. i have to say that i am impressed by certain things. i like that he understands humbler beginnings and middle class woes. i like that he didn’t take a high-paying job immediately after Harvard, but instead worked for the community. i like that he’s young, idealistic, and still “relatively” untainted by the real dirt in politics.
those aren’t good enough reasons to vote for him. but if it comes down to picking to support one of these two candidates (because let’s face it, another vote is one thrown away)–i want a fresher face that understands some of this situations i’ve been in. i don’t want the same old crap that has gotten us into this mess. i don’t want the guy that’s watched us go from more prosperous to circling the drain on his watch.
so, since none of the stuff right now can be believed, i’m just hoping that once obama gets through all this campaign warfare and plays the game accordingly, that the promised fresh ideas and follow-through come.
http://www.snopes.com
http://www.factcheck.org
Everyone needs to check the facts and stop spreading inflammatory BS.
This is a serious decision that needs to be made with intelligence and responsibility.
Manipulative, fear mongering misinformation is a cesspool. You can’t stick your head in it and then claim to see clearly.
And don’t forget that every time a politician offers to help the middle class the entire society takes a major step backward. I am in the middle class and would just as soon not have any assistance from Washington.
Obama is a socialist and the GOP isn’t being fically reponsible, there are no Whig party members out there, so right now I’m going to vote “Present” (it worked for the senator from Illinois)
Curious…facts as you approve?
Brian….why is it that I wasnt able to post the New York times article link…???
My non campain orientated links have not been posted…yet the anti palin links above make it in….tsk tsk tsk.
Ill try again in the next post so people can read about Ayres …from Ayres.
(Oddly enough the wiki page containing the link has been edited…but alas I found another thats been blocked from edititing and deleting of Ayres wacko self love of his mania.)
Lets see if this non Mccain/ Palin bashing new york times article from sept 11 2001 makes it to post.
And the NY Times article.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
I guess not. Unresearched? There’s no better research than a mans own words…..about himself. The connection is that this guy still has the same aspirations and beliefs…there are just to many goofy people around Obama.
I like every single word he says…but the fact remains…these nagging people.
Both McCain and Obama are not substantially different except in the above mentioned aspect. Its who is around him.
Go Dagger ! !
No Regrets for a Love Of Explosives; In a Memoir of Sorts, a War Protester Talks of Life With the Weathermen (exerpts….not rumor)
By DINITIA SMITH
Published: September 11, 2001 (Ny Times)
”I don’t regret setting bombs,” Bill Ayers said. ”I feel we didn’t do enough.” Mr. Ayers, who spent the 1970’s as a fugitive in the Weather Underground, was sitting in the kitchen of his big turn-of-the-19th-century stone house in the Hyde Park district of Chicago. The long curly locks in his Wanted poster are shorn, though he wears earrings. He still has tattooed on his neck the rainbow-and-lightning Weathermen logo that appeared on letters taking responsibility for bombings. And he still has the ebullient, ingratiating manner, the apparently intense interest in other people, that made him a charismatic figure in the radical student movement.
Now he has written a book, ”Fugitive Days” (Beacon Press, September). Mr. Ayers, who is 56, calls it a memoir, somewhat coyly perhaps, since he also says some of it is fiction. He writes that he participated in the bombings of New York City Police Headquarters in 1970, of the Capitol building in 1971, the Pentagon in 1972. But Mr. Ayers also seems to want to have it both ways, taking responsibility for daring acts in his youth, then deflecting it. ……
….Mr. Ayers, who in 1970 was said to have summed up the Weatherman philosophy as: ”Kill all the rich people. Break up their cars and apartments. Bring the revolution home, kill your parents, that’s where it’s really at,” is today distinguished professor of education at the University of Illinois at Chicago. And he says he doesn’t actually remember suggesting that rich people be killed or that people kill their parents, but ”it’s been quoted so many times I’m beginning to think I did,” he said. ”It was a joke about the distribution of wealth.”
He went underground in 1970, after his girlfriend, Diana Oughton, and two other people were killed when bombs they were making exploded in a Greenwich Village town house. With him in the Weather Underground was Bernardine Dohrn, who was put on the F.B.I.’s 10 Most Wanted List. J. Edgar Hoover called her ”the most dangerous woman in America” and ”la Pasionara of the Lunatic Left.” Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn later married. …..
….”Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,” he writes. But then comes a disclaimer: ”Even though I didn’t actually bomb the Pentagon — we bombed it, in the sense that Weathermen organized it and claimed it.” He goes on to provide details about the manufacture of the bomb and how a woman he calls Anna placed the bomb in a restroom. No one was killed or injured, though damage was extensive.
….Today, Mr. Ayers and Ms. Dohrn, 59, who is director of the Legal Clinic’s Children and Family Justice Center of Northwestern University, seem like typical baby boomers, caring for aging parents, suffering the empty-nest syndrome. Their son, Malik, 21, is at the University of California, San Diego; Zayd, 24, teaches at Boston University. They have also brought up Chesa Boudin, 21, the son of David Gilbert and Kathy Boudin, who are serving prison terms for a 1981 robbery of a Brinks truck in Rockland County, N.Y., that left four people dead. Last month, Ms. Boudin’s application for parole was rejected.
…So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ”I don’t want to discount the possibility,” he said.
There is much much more…I wouldnt get within 50 miles of this guy !
Go Dagger ! !
Rwinger…wanna split the cost on an Island?
Go Dagger ! !
Ritchie- Both of those sites are well documented, unbiased fact checkers.
One is funded by the conservative Annenberg foundation.
That said- I am sure there is plenty of proof that Ayres was a crackpot. But if you investigate the committee that he and Obama served on together- there were lots of other politicians on them- including conservative Republicans. Guilt by association is just lame. Jesus Christ associated with some people who were considered to be despicable in his time- did that make him despicable? An acquaintence of my daughter, who has spent many an evening in my home had an abortion- does that make me an abortionist? John McCain had a well documented relation ship with a crook named Keating- does that make McCain a crook? Sarah Palin spoke to a group in Alaska that advocates seccesion- told them they are “doin’ good work” and “God Bless you”- does that make her a traitor?
This is just another smoke screen that tricks people into taking their eyes off the issues. If you want argue issues, with facts and figures- let me know. Otherwise, just keep casting irrelevent, discredited BS. and undermining your own credibility.
When ya throw sh*t, it usually sticks to you.
Curious…ok…everyone is OK…except McCain Palin…her daughter…and Todd Palin…and of course there’s the drug stealing Cindy McCain….
Yet The guy who made the bombs is OK…lets forget the carnage he wrought and just focus on today only…in fact lets open the jails….lets not forget…inmates rarely commit crimes.
The fact is that no one can find a reason why an up and coming politician …shaker and mover… would allie himself with that scumbag…so they try to write off the death and destruction…not to mention that he hates America…hates our systems (except, of course, the part that got him off).
Ask yourself this…why did he get on the board of Ayers organization…why not another. I don’t care who was on that board…they all need their heads examined for associating with that vermin.
There is only one of them running for president !
The other question…a very telling one…is why do you continue to say that his own memoures are discredited…they are his words. These are facts. Now accept the fact that he associated with a guy known to be a mad dog bomber…unlike mccain who associated with keating yet was unaware that keating was a crook. Did Mccain associatate with Keating after it was a known fact he was a crook…the answer is no.
The fact is that Ayres is revered in the circle he runs in. Are you telling me that there is no Chicago democrat Obama could have made his debut with other than Ayres?
I have to assume that Obama walks around Chicago with blinders and ear plugs all day for the last 20 or so years!
He doesnt hear his minister…he doesnt hear Ayres….he doesnt see or hear anything.
In my book…as I know better than that…I have a problem with him even though if you ignore all that….he says all the right things.
Its like the gangster thats gonna do a bust out on your buisness…as you are shaking his hand his guys are looting the register and emptieing the stock room right in front of your eyes.
If it wernt for this disturbing trend of his…that hes trying to marginalize…I would like him as he has no worse ideas than Mccain.
Go Dagger ! !
Im moving to bali
Can we assist you in any way to get to Bali sooner?
Richie;
Sorry about that #55. The devil made me do it.
Everyone, get a copy of today’s Washington Times and read the Wes Pruden editorial about the Chicago background of the supposed front runner.
Ritchie- Why do you assume that I believe all the crap out there about the Republican candidates? I’m just saying that there is plenty of spurious dung that can be thrown in both directions. If you go to those fact check sites you will see that they cut both ways. IF I had the opportunity to serve on a board that was going to be given a pile of $$ to improve schools in Baltimore, I would jump on it. EVEN if there was a prodigal son on it. I would believe that it was a sacred trust and a responsibility to be in there to provide balance and expertise. I don’t have to be buddies with everyone I work with. I don’t have to agree with their past or their present. I have to do what is right- despite them. Ritchie- I would even work with you for the greater good- LOL!
Why don’t you discuss an issue?
curious-Here’s an issue:
Obama’s redistribution of wealth (socialist) philosophy, and his running mate Mr Biden’s belief that paying more taxes because you are successful is “patriotic.”
Obama’s promise to cut taxes for people who don’t pay any taxes anyway.
His belief that Iran is a small country and of no significant threat to the US, Israel, or anyone else for that matter.
Any time we begin to think Iran is not a threat to our allies. includeing the u.s. we are makeing a big mistake.
Dell, dell. Why would a contientous supporter of the Red States even breath the word “socialist” at a time like this? Have you no concept of the astronomical taxpayer-funded economic bailout package that will go down in history as the culmination of the 25-year Repulican revolution? Bush has been so far right, he’s left. You know this, man. I’m a Democrat, and I’m voting for Obama. He’s stuck by his pledge to not toss dirt. Know why McCain’s “hero,” Ron Regean stopped being buddy-buddy with him? B/c the Maverick left his ailing wife for a rich blond bombshell, and the Regeans thought that was shitty. Whose wife (the bombshell) was a drug addict for years? Le Maverick. You don’t hear that crap coming out of the Obama campaign b/c he’s busy talking about real issues. Something McCain said he’d do, too. Instead we have Palin out telling people that a United States senator is a terrorist.
The biggest threat Iran poses to the worls at large can be summed up in three little words, and it’s not “Nuclear F-ing Weapons.” It’s “Straits of Hormuz.”
If Ammagitajob decides to blockade the Straits, and stop the flow of tankers, what will Prez Obama do?
Matt,
People come to rallies and yell whatever they want. Saying Palin says what some nut in a crowd yelled is ridiculous.
McCain and his wife separated because they were kept apart for 6 years while he was a POW and when he came back he was a little messed up and things fell apart between them. He met and married Cindy McCain several years later, and she had a problem with overcoming prescription meds. He didn’t leave his wife for another woman or for a woman with a drug problem.
Matt, we actually agree on something!!!!!!!!!! I think…
There is no right or left. It’s just a giant circle. Once liberals in socialists may share many views, but I think they are different enough that they aren’t on the same two dimensional path. Same thing we’ve seen with the true fiscal conservatives and the neo-cons in power now. Neo-cons are seen as further right than fiscal conservatives, except the neo-cons are growing government, which is what the socialists want.
BY,
A real decent person would admonish the idea, rather than standby and pretend to not hear death threats against the other candidate. Mc/Pals aren’t just opting to not tell their supporters that calling Barack a terrorist is kinda freaky. They’re encouraging the American public to shout down its better angels and opt for fear, racism, and small mindedness. Same way Bush won. They call it a “base” for a reason. Because it reflects our most “base” instincts: to act like a collection of warring clans, rather than a civilization. Not my kind of leadership. I’m a Democrat, and I’m voting for Obama.
matt- It is the one inherent characteristic of political campaigns that they ALL GO NEGATIVE. It’s what they do.
“The Obama campaign has set up a website dedicated to the Keating scandal, http://www.keatingeconomics.com, and at noon Eastern time on Monday was to release a 13-minute documentary on the subject.”-Washington Post
I’m OK with that. So let’s not pretend that the Obama camp has somehow transcended politics as usual.
I don’t care about Ayres, Rezko, or ACORN, any more than I care about Keating, trophy wives, or fighter jet crashes.
I’m a Libertarian in most respects (still can’t wrap my mind around the whole “legalize it” thing), and, since I’m in Maryland, it doesn’t matter a tinkers damn whether I vote for Obama, McCain, Bob Barr, or Mickey Mouse.
I’ve said it here before.
I want a government that will stay out of my home, out of my way, and out of my wallet. That is all.
If one of the two candidates could promise me less government, I’d buy in.
How about a flat tax? EVERYBODY PAYS, not just those of us who can’t shelter our income, or those that don’t think they earn enough that they have to contribute.
THAT’s patriotic.
Promise me that you’ll stand up to those that would do our country harm. THAT’s patriotic.
The Republican Revolution failed. Sure. So did the triumphant return of the Democrats into control of both houses of Congress. TWO years of absolutely nothing.
I’m not moving to Bali. It’s an island, LOTS of marinas there i’d bet….
I’m not pretending anything. I know about the Keating stuff. That’s a different kind of negative — McCain testified before Congress on it — and the whole thing goes to an actual policy disagreement between the two candidates. I’m talking about shameless, fear mongering and personal destruction. McCain’s doing it. Obama’s not. And it would be easy if he wanted to.
Ohhh…a different KIND of negative. Transcendant indeed!
You can’t possibly believe the Keating stuff is about any policy.
Tell me what he’s done to make my life better, my country stronger, my wallet fatter. What he’s going to do to accomplish same. That goes for BOTH of them.
ANY of them.
You’re telling me that pointing out the fact that a guy was at the epicenter of a huge freaking bribery scandal and calling a guy a “terrorist” for no good goddamn reason are the same KIND of negative? Sure. You know what? The whole, “all these guys are no good so let’s throw our hands up” thing is a total cop-out.
Not at all. But you fail to mention that “the special counsel in the case had recommended that McCain and one of the Democrats be dropped as defendants, a move that was blocked by Democrats who controlled the Senate.”
AND
“McCain eventually repaid $112,000 to the U.S. Treasury and reimbursed Keating for the trips.”-Associated Press
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iG5BqTVduZyxWeMy1I3XP2JG3j3QD93LLFRG1
Much in the same way the Obama campaign is in the process of returning tens of thousands of dollars to “Donald Duck” and others of his ilk that have contributed to his campaign recently.
Nowhere have I said “all these guys are no good so let’s throw our hands up.”
I just want them to show me something more substantive than mudslinging and slogans.
“Where’s the beef?”
Who are you voting for, Dell?
How can anyone compare and association with a theif to a terrorist? If your neigbor, that you had at your home for dinner, was caught stealing, do you think the community would think your were a theif? But if you invited BinLaden to your
home for dinner, do you think people would be afraid you were a terrorist? If you belonged to one of those anti american churches, do you think people would you were anti american or a good catholic? Obama attended his anti american church weekly and has befriended terrorist. What else do you need!!! He is a great speaker who can really make people believe him. He is also preying on low income and the black community. He wants people to believe that he was a poor black kid that can relate. He is not black!! His dad was a drunk loser from Kenya and his mom was white. Most poor people or middle class cannot efford to attend two colleges, one being Harvard. If he says that he had no finianial help
from a outside source, how did this all work? Student loans?? How?? Can all poor people get a million dollars in student loans? What a great country we are that if you are concidered poor, there is unlimited funds waiting for you.
Another suprise……
The news just reported that one of Obamas muslim chairs, recently attended
a meeting at a Comfort Inn with another muslim group with definate ties to Hamas. His campaign said that they did not plan that meeting. When will they stop!!!
Also not only has there been numerous illegal voter registraion in Ohio but they are also finding a large amount in Colorado. The Republicans have brought accusations against the Acorn group(Obama supporters) and it looks to the judges that the Democrats are at it again. The judge has already imposed strong changes be made in Ohio. If he is so great…why does he feel the need to cheat!
Refer to post #65.
It doesn’t matter who I, little old Dell from Forest Hill, vote for. Because Forest Hill is, for the foreseeable future, in Maryland. It’s already in the WIN column for Obama/Biden.
If I wanted my vote to count, I’d move to Ohio (who knows, I may be registered to vote there already).
Maryland won’t go “red” until Red Skelton and Red Buttons dance to “Red Skies at Night” in the Red Room at Red’s Corner Bar while drinking Red Rum, wearing Red footy pajamas.
THE DUKE: What’s the name of your establishment?
RED: Red’s Corner Bar.
THE DUKE: Do you dye your hair?
RED: No.
THE DUKE: Why do they call you Red?
RED: It’s short for Redwood.
THE DUKE: What’s your first name?
RED: Bill.
THE DUKE: We’ll be back. Thanks for your cooperation, Bill.
Dell
Whether we live in a red or blue state should not determine a vote. You got to use your concious. If the press gives us facts and we don’t use them, how do people live with themselves if something horrible happens. Think of terror threats. If Obama gets in and Maryland harbors or APG take a hit, how do people deal with kowing that they were warned but didn’t want to go against party lines. Do people remember 9/11?? Or did we leave that in the past? It is bound to happen again and we need a true American leader with strong knowledge of security and one who has earned the trust and respect of our military
USA: What if you had dinner with IRA leaders who the federal government has listed as terrorists? Do you think that it would hurt chances of getting elected, say governor of a state?
Obama has a great plan, no McCain has a great plan, no wait……….neither has “a plan” and until partisan politics ends or a strong third party can enter the mix the United States will slowly but surely spiral further downward. It was Jefferson that predicted the decline and fall but we’ve lasted a little longer than he thought. He wasn’t the only one of the founding fathers that saw this coming and they were right on the money if you take the American Civil War into consideration.
For those “on the fence”, a few tidbits:
If you think health insurance is expensive now, wait until it’s free and you’ll be paying double
How can 95% get a tax refund when only 60% are paying paying taxes, why should a non-tax-payer get a refund check…..only in a socialist economy
Why should Joe Citizen and others get “punished” through tax increases because they took the time to be fically responsible and made investments…….that’s right that 34% tax on your CD interest or your savings bond interest
At least one quarter of the candidates knows what the 10th Amendment is for (hint, hint……it’s Palin)
Which “leader” will have the testicular fortitude to take a real stand on ILLEGAL border crossings to the south……..one who hails from a border state and has seen the effects first hand or one who hails from a party that embraces the illegals and the illegal votes that they supply
Who is the least likely to have a non-partisan cabinet, the guy who has a history of reaching across the aisle or the guy that has never voted against party lines when he wasn’t voting “present”
And don’t let the polls influence your vote, the polls picked Kerry, the polls looked good for Mondale, and we all know that Dewey won……right?
I can’t figure it out. “usa” is either Lee Greenwood or Hulk Hogan.
usa- I can smell what you’re cooking, but it’s not that simple. Simply implying that we will experience another 9/11 if Obama gets elected is like saying that we haven’t been attacked since 2001 because “W” is in the White House. That work is being done a LOT farther down the food chain than the Oval Office.
As far as trust and respect of the military, any vet around will tell you that the military will follw the orders of whomever is the Commander-In-Chief. The days of Crossing the Rubicon are long past.
WJC had a pretty poor regard in military circles, but when he said march, they marched.
I hate to keep repeating myself, but I’m the smartest guy I know:
I want a government that will stay out of my home, out of my way, and out of my wallet. That is all.
A minor correction to Post #77- I am the smartest guy in this room eating pretzel rods in my boxer shorts that I know.
Brian,
This article sums up pretty well how I feel about Obama’s connection to Ayers: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/obamas_character_still_questio.html
On the other hand, I have to believe that if the connection to Ayers, Rezco, etc really meant anything, the Clinton machine would have exposed them in the primaries…
Wow, this line is getting heavy. Dell, I agree with you on most things but your post at #80 needs a bit of clarification. First off, I am a retired Army officer. During the 8 years of WJC the Army leadership jumped if the Commander asked – but! Just about any Colonel or one or two star general who could, retired. Further the junior officers, particularly at the Captain level got out when the commitment was up. The leadership that was jumping for him was the weakest of the weak.
During that time I attended three formal military dinners hosted b y three different retiree organizations. At all three, the traditional toast to the “Commander in Chief” was not done. Poor regard is a massive understatement. The active and retired military folk, for the most part, are pretty loyal to the leadership, but never for the male version of Jane Fonda.
When and if Obama is elected I suspect the same thing will happen. Did any of yo see the Washington Post headline this AM? It turns out that our curly headed genius, approached the Iraqis in June or July to ask them to hold off on supporting the surge until after the election. That my friends is treason and he should be tried, found guilty and shot.
Vote for who you wish, but please don’t toss out the “my guy did bad stuff but so did yours” crap. This is not a zero sum game. One treasonous act is not wiped out by another guy’s stumbling over a crack while jaywalking.
Dave may I suggest and impeachment before he is elected. I’am beginning too think he would be a happy camper among jane fonda & her rogue friend’s.
Re#59
Amusing that THIS guy should be painting Obama with guilt by association .
Here’s the guy who brought him up and whose views he has never repudiated:
Pruden’s father, Wesley Pruden, Sr., was the chaplain to the Capital Citizens Council in Little Rock, Arkansas, a segregationist group that battled integration throughout the 1950s and 1960s. When President Dwight Eisenhower sent Army troops to protect nine black teenagers attempting to integrate Little Rock Central High School in 1957, Pruden Sr. reportedly told an assembled mob, “That’s what we gotta fight, niggers, Communists and cops.”
Here’s Pruden in 1998
:
Pruden spoke to the United Daughters of the Confederacy at the Manassas Battlefield Park: “‘Southerners … hold loyalty to two countries in our hearts.’ The second country is one ‘baptized 137 years ago on this very field in the blood of First Manassas, a country no longer at the mercy of the vicissitudes in the tangled affairs of men, a country that lives within us, a country that will endure for as long as men and women know love. … God bless America, God bless the Confederate States of America, and God bless you all’,”
Last I looked, secession is treason. And there were more American lives lost because of the confederacy inflicted civil war than in any other war in our history.
But that treason and violance was a-ok .
Gee, I wonder whay this guy is spreading unsubstantiated dirt about Obama?
Consider the source.
Dave…did you mean post 55??? curious wrote that one?
Marina Mafia…your an imbecile…this is not a little table discussion.
Curious…my comments were not attacking or pigeon holing you…I know better…it was somewhat rhetorical.
Dell…lets show some respect…its “I’m a dinner jacket”.
Vet…AMEN BROTHER !
USA…amen.
Dell in #80 is absolutely on the money…we hated Carter…yet when he said give me , my family, and my friends a parade we did…and practiced in July for a week on an airstrip for it under lock down.
R Winger…an obvious knowledge and retention of history…something severely lacking among many.
Steve….Hillery has more than a few skeletons in her closet…ask Vince….I’m just curious why we haven’t tapped her for solving our financial problem…she was a hell of a futures trader.
Go Dagger !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all
Exhibit #1 “usa “-a primo example of the spread of ignorant, unsubstantiated lies and fear:.Notice he provides 0 documentation- because there is none. If this is the kind of ” thinking” that McCain supporters espouse? It’s no wonder that this kind of stuff is backfiring on the McCain/Palin ticket.
I dont know why Im not able to post this link. Copy and paste from between the parenthisis. Its an interesting read.
(http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F02E1DE1438F932A2575AC0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all)
Curious….
Today I went to the Bronx. On my way I pass the place where there used to be two towers.
When I go to Brooklyn I come back through Staten Island….I pass the pile of rubble there to this day…the rubble that was sifted by hand to get enough DNA to account for 3000 people.
This is not imaginary.
Lest we forget!
Go Dagger !
The 9/11 attack on the twin towers was not imaginary. When did i say it was? I will never forget it. And I think we should pursue the most effective strategies to marginalize and defuse world wide terrorism. Here are some documented facts:
National security is a subject where conservatives get away with surreal talking points, such as, “Let’s fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here,” which Sarah Palin repeated as recently as last week. [New York Times] McCain simplistically asserts that America’s choices in Iraq are “victory” or “retreat.” [Washington Post] How can we turn the debate from a recitation of absurd slogans into a serious reconsideration of America’s role in the world?
The Facts
The Bush-McCain war in Iraq is a disaster. So far, the costs of the war include over 4,000 fallen American soldiers, approximately 30,000 more wounded, and $565 billion lost. This does not include the costs borne by other nations, or the tremendous suffering of innocent civilians in Iraq. Most Americans think the Iraq war is a failure [Gallup] and record numbers of Americans are dissatisfied with our nation’s position in the world. [Gallup] Among the citizens of other nations, America’s standing in the world is at an all-time low. [Gallup]
Bush’s efforts to fight terrorism have backfired. According to the most recently declassified National Security Estimate, the Iraq war has had a “rejuvenating effect” on Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations. [Washington Post] Worldwide, suicide bombings have increased greatly since 2001, and 2007 was the worst year for such bombings in more than a quarter-century. Over half of all suicide bombings last year took place in U.S.-occupied Afghanistan and Iraq. [Washington Post]
Bush has depleted our military. A poll of 3,400 military officers found that 60 percent say the U.S. military is weaker today than it was five years ago, and nearly 90 percent say the Iraq war has “stretched the U.S. military dangerously thin.” [Foreign Policy] The military’s involuntary extensions of duty—especially “stop loss” orders to National Guard soldiers—have caused hardships for soldiers and their families and have made it more difficult to recruit future soldiers. [USA Today] The U.S. Government Accountability Office reports that it will take years and cost about $200 billion to repair or replace equipment that was warn out or broken in the Iraq war. [GAO]
Bush continues to outsource national security. “Free market” ideology trumps national security in the Bush Administration. Not only have we outsourced critical military jobs to the likes of Halliburton and Blackwater, the Bush Administration has also hired private companies to spy for the United States. In fact, 70 percent of the intelligence budget now goes to contractors. In other words, private corporate interests control our nation’s most sensitive information and help direct our most critical foreign policy decisions. [CBS News]
Bush has had little success in stopping nuclear proliferation. One of America’s greatest security threats is the possibility that nuclear weapons will find their way into the hands of rogue states or terrorists. Yet, the Administration’s ham-fisted approach to Iranian nuclear programs has accomplished nothing. Bush’s nuclear deal with North Korea is on the verge of breakdown. His nuclear agreement with India undermined nonproliferation arguments elsewhere. And Bush’s opposition to the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty and his refusal to cooperate in other international efforts have worsened the problem. [Arms Control Association]
Bush has made no progress on energy independence. Our dependence on foreign oil remains a grave risk to national security. Fifty-eight percent of oil consumed in the U.S. is imported. [Energy Information Administration] Still, Bush slashed Department of Energy programs that promoted conservation, efficiency, and renewable energy sources. Bush and Senate conservatives killed 2007 legislation that would have required 15 percent of our electricity to come from renewable sources and they continue to block the Renewable Energy and Energy Conservation Tax Act of 2008. [Center for American Progress, Washington Post] Conservatives did nothing to improve fuel efficiency for cars and SUVs while they controlled Congress and the White House. Then in December 2007, the day after Bush signed Democratic legislation which modestly increases fuel efficiency standards, the administration blocked laws enacted in 18 states that would improve auto efficiency rules for a majority of Americans. [New York Times]
Solutions
The Bush-McCain approach—preemptive war, non-cooperation with our allies, outsourcing to firms like Halliburton, and continuing U.S. reliance on foreign oil—has made our nation less secure. We need a U.S. foreign policy that engages our allies and uses moral leadership to build a safer world for us all.
Dave Y- “Crossing the Rubicon”-The river is notable as Roman law prohibited the Rubicon from being crossed by any Roman Army legion. The river was considered to mark the boundary between the Roman province of Cisalpine Gaul to the north and Italy proper to the south; the law thus protected the republic from internal military threat. When Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon with his army in 49 BC, supposedly on January 10 of the Roman calendar, to make his way to Rome, he broke that law and made armed conflict inevitable. According to historian Suetonius, Caesar uttered the famous phrase ?lea iacta est (“the die is cast”).
I guess I was trying to show myself how smart myself was. I meant that we’re not looking at even the remotest possibility of a coup or military junta ruling the country, even if the Chief of Staff of the Army loathes the POTUS.
I smurfed my way through 4 years of WJC as an active duty military (enlisted). Like I said in my post, he wasn’t liked, and I recall a lot of grumbling, especially when the RIF’s started.
WOW! You think Bush is better than God. I didn’t know that one man can do all that. So really, you are blaming our military and generals who give the recommendation to the commander in chief on why we have lost soldiers. You blame our intellengence agencies and other countries and their intellengence agencies for the war since the give info and recommendations to our commander in chief. But I guess Obama wouldn’t take any advice from any of these people. Maybe he can ask his preacher, Wright, for some advice. I am very proud as an American, in our soldiers and generals. By people bashing their hard work and dedication I think is very sad and anti American. Keep saying how they are losing and should just quit is no way to show respect for the ones that have died, been injured or are still fighting.
Curious…
Surreal…
1 “fight them over there vs over here…” that’s not an abstract concept…fights break things…better in their house than mine.
2 The Bush Mccain war? What war is that? If I’m not mistaken that war was overwhelmingly approved. Maybe its the Bush, Palouse, Waters,Murtha war.
3. Yes, al quida in Iraq tried to demoralize the populace to maintain control. Animals…bombs in markets targeting innocents. I think that’s a pretty good indicator of why this pox had to be brought out of the shadows and confronted.
4. I’m still trying to find where Bush and Mccain became a team…as you full know and are now doing what you detested (wrongly) is stating pure propaganda for the ignorant to consume. Its well known common knowledge that Mccain was opposed to the execution in many aspects that Bush admin did.
5. I suppose you haven’t noticed the bio fuel signs up all over lower Penn…and those huge windmills every day at the Delaware toll…waiting for escorts to the fields and mountaintops all over Penn and wherever the winds will support their use.
The jist of your arguments against Mccain seem to be that you dont like Bush…truly surreal !
Go Dagger !
Ok heres a fact many of you dont seem to understand.
BUSH ISNT RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT !
USA do you remember the color code…how people thought it was stupid….cause they didnt know what it meant. They expected Bush to call all 53,000 sherrifs depts in the us individually and give them specific instructions in an emergency.
Go Dagger!
RichieC
Not only was the war highly favored but Bush said over and over again that this would be a hard and very long war. He reminded everyone that this is not war just against a country but against terrorists that were near and far. Now is not the time to flip flop after the fact!
Thanks for reminding me about the codes. Homeland Security [that Bush started] must be doing some good since we havn’t been hit since but we have prevented many attacks since 9/11.
USA……how fast we forget!
Unpleasent …yes…necessary…yes.
Go Dagger !
Sorry to ruffle your delicate feathers Curious. Wees Pruden’s own feelings are not at issue. The facts of where and what Obama learned and associated are not just cobbled up stuff. It takes some real digging to find out any truth about THAT GUY. He has a very closed book about his New York time, his Chicago associates and his backers. Just like Bill Clinton’s medical records, when the info is withheld or suppressed we will speculate. THAT GUY scares the hell out of me and every factoid I discover just makes it worse. McCain is not the best man for the job, but just hating him or what he stands for is not reason to smear him.
Try this site for size: http://www.usweekly.com
” Solutions
The Bush-McCain approach—preemptive war, non-cooperation with our allies, outsourcing to firms like Halliburton, and continuing U.S. reliance on foreign oil—has made our nation less secure. We need a U.S. foreign policy that engages our allies and uses moral leadership to build a safer world for us all.”
Written in #91. The perfect quote to follow that would be; “gee can’t we all just get along” – Rodney King.
Maybe if we just beat all of our swords into plows wee won’t have any nasty people left. Curious, you sound smart but your thinking is a bit naive.
Curious it bit more info george bush along with his allies. removed some of the v.a. benefit’s. such as health care. 5 YEARS from discharge. unless combat wounded. or a combat vet. but in either case. your ability to pay for medical help is checked. no more free rides here.
There are certainly’ people that can well afford health care with out rideing on the back’s of the people. my medicine is cheaper at johnson family pharmacy than it is at perry point. the point being these benefit’s were trimed while men and women are serveing there country at war.
May be we could reduce the a mount of steak the white house & staff consume in a month.
McCain voted with Bush 90-95% in the last eight years- is he proud of his record?
If so- the ” guilt by association” arguments that you espouse apply.
usa- I have NEVER equated Bush with God- your words-not mine. I would equate him with quite the opposite,
Neither have I EVER denegrated our soldiers. They would have never been in this situation if the neo-con manipulators hadn’t taken us into what has now been accepted by a majority as an unnecessary war based on falsehoods.
Yensen- You missed my point- guilt by association cuts all ways. I am certainly not going to give any credibility to disproven ” facts” aimed by a guy with docummented rascist connections and a history of supporting treason.
Naive is believing that continuing support for unilateral pre-emptive war , the subsequent loss of free world respect ,and squandered resources will make us safer.
“Just like” McCain’s “medical records, when the info is withheld or suppressed we will speculate. ”
Obama may or may not be ” the best man for the job, but just hating him or what he stands for is not reason to smear him.” fFxed your typos.
Yensen-
I went to the Obama smear site you recommended. Interestingly enough- no where on the site do they identify their “staff”. So there is no way to find out if they are in any way reputable . My guess is- if you can’t put your name on it- it’s not trustworthy. Also interesting is the fact that they have hijacked the name of a popular gossip rag- counting on the fact that people who are interested in tabloid trash will type in the name of US Weekly and end up reading their Obama smears. Probably just the audience that will “buy” it too.
All;
Note that rather than dispute facts as presented, the Marxist approach is to immediately discredit or smear the source.
Time will tell what and who THAT GUY really is, but for me and my house it’s simply NOBAMA
Does anybody know who the “staff” is behind the Usweekly.com Obama smear site?
no.
they are, apparently, cowards.
~$ whois Usweekly.com
Whois Server Version 2.0
Domain name: Usweekly.com
Registrant Contact:
Whois Privacy Protection Service, Inc.
Administrative Contact:
Whois Privacy Protection Service, Inc.
Whois Agent (jcxtmqgtk@whoisprivacyprotect.com)
What facts? What sources?
So Yenson- I guess that means that you believe unnamed anonymous sources are trustworthy purveyors of fact? And *I *am naive?
Calling those who prefer named sources with substantiated facts “Marxixts” is excellent argument. BWAHAHHAHA!
“THAT GUY scares the hell out of me and every FACTOID I discover just makes it worse” Yensen
Toids- yes. Facts-no. LOLOLOL!
I would suggest if we have ”faith” in our F.B.I and other sources. obama’s past & present have been checked carefully. as for mc cain my concern is he has a deep rooted hatred for the vietnamese.
OF which I’am inclined to believe will control his will in Iraq & afgan. simply extending a no win war with a possible draft. could you imagine palin in charge of the u.s. and it’s problem’s. it might be safer in another country.
I especially love , where in 103, Curious states..”if you cant put your name on it its probably not true”. Yes curious (anonymous), I RichieC, agree.
Go Dagger ! !
curious, I just wanted to point out that McCain voting with Bush 90-95% of the time means nothing. Some many votes in Washington are unanimous. There are so many votes, honoring someone, thanking someone, recognizing someone, etc. It is very misleading to say that someone votes the same as someone 90-95% of the time. It is more important to look at the specific votes. I really wish both candidates would stop repeating their catch phrases and tell us something honest and important!
After reading USweekly.com, it seems that rather than cowards these people see Obama and his minions for what they are. Criminals and thugs.
Besides, why do you care who the messenger is? If the mountain’s on fire it matters to you who which citizens spread the word?
That’s just stupid.
Sandy is correct…many votes are houskeeping.
” Besides, why do you care who the messenger is? If the mountain’s on fire it matters to you who which citizens spread the word? ”
But the question remains- is the mountain on fire? 911 has caller ID and can prosecute for false alarms. And well they should because false alarms pose a danger to public safety.
So Mark- I start a web site and post multiple articles that villify your candidate. I provide no verifiable documentation, and refuse to sign my name. Further- you can choose to go to other named and verifiable sources to prove my words untrue. You’ll still believe me – right?
This is getting worse !
Obama’s brother in Kenya Malik ..Ayres son Malik. The weather underground and other groups had trans continental connections. This gets worse and worse. Now I doubt the mud hut stories and cant help but wonder about deeper trans continent connections crossing generational lines. We seem to make a line between this and that. Its there really a barrier that keeps the 60’s/70’s agendas from realizing them selves with an elitist hierarchy in charge quietly in the background today? That’s one real possibility that is truly not covered by a few mud slinging comments about mud huts. This all seems to be one happy communal family that is in stealth…..or not.
When…. I don’t know, vs,I know….. I go with what I know.
Yesterday I went to Ny on my way back I was approached by a waitress I know in Bordentown Nj. She had a newspaper clipping…the one in most papers yesterday about Obama’s “alleged terrorist buddies”. She , however, was not actually aware of the weatherman or other stuff relative to it. I believe that many Americans have ether forgotten or are simply not aware of the orginization of many anti American and subversive elements that existed in the 70’s and may still be around even if in an evolved form…yet with the anti American roots still intact. In many cases these elements don’t want their true identities or agenda’s known as this would chase many good people from them…so straw men such as Obama are put up…a construct…a puppet. I might be all wet…but as He and McCain are not substantially different, I’ll stick with the known commodity.
This whole thing has a million questions to it that need answering.
Lets not forget something else….Malcolm X..assassinated from within after visiting Mecca and having a changed attitude….MLK assassinated…Bobby Kennedy assassinated…and there are others..these activist leaders truly loved America or at least didn’t have at the time of their assassination a hatred for it. We have been left with the lackeys in charge of the remnants of the legacies. Jackson for MLK…Farrakhan for Malcolm -X….and a hodgepodge for Bobby Kennedy.
I believe we are at a true crossroad…in a time of total confusion and fatigue we have a choice slipped in on us that I believe is not fully disclosing all.
Just some food for thought….I’M sure ill be chastised for this. But at least I use my name.
Go Dagger ! !
Mark its not stupid if you want the mountain burnt and cleared of pine trees so you can plant birch trees.
Go Dagger !
What it a mount’s too. were screwed & tattoed, either way we go. I would vote for a martian if I thought he it or what ever could bail us out of this mess.
In 1977 Pink Floyd did a song …ill dig it out later…Pink Floyd did many sound tracks for counter culture movies….(many a thought is memorialized in our entertainment media from an era).
This song…one of their compositions unrelated to a movie…had the following lyrics…” you’ve got to strike when the moment is right without thinking”….
The song goes on the mention that …”you can work on points of style”…”a cool hand shake” and on and on…all about describing putting on a facade. Describing how to BS people en mass.
Thousand of little bits of information are raising many a question.
To be fair I’ll say that McCain was not at the top of his class at the naval academy.
Go Dagger !
Vet…..I agree….we got a choice to ether trust a guy we know or the guy that those that think they know him may not even know.
Go Dagger !
The web site that Curious got so furious (Curious – furious) I digress. The site has film clips of the actual people saying and doing the acts that are in fact treasonous. I don’t need a name for the youtube clip. The clip says it. THAT GUY is flawed but don’t dare say it or the Curious of the world will vilify you.
Vet; McCain doesn’t hate the Viet Namese. He worked hard for normalization of relations. He has met with and befriended many of them.
Hey Ritchie- You got enough tinfoil for that hat?
Sorry Yensen- it didn’t make me furious…. it is laugh out loud absurd. You believe everything you see on you tube too? What a surprise!
You’re right Ritchie- it gets worse and worse.
EVEN John McCain said today that Barack Obama is a “decent person”, and that there is “nothing about him to be scared of should he become president”. Apparently he has become aware of the inciting nastiness that is out there in his name. I applaud him for being honest and responsible.
Curious…your being what you claim to hate now…..and you know I have never treated you like that.
Go Dagger ! !
Curious…
you have gone from incensed…to defensive…and now to condescending over this topic and the mention of these relevant unanswered questions….whats the next gyration?
Your chagrin seems to be centered around mentioning them verses addressing them.
As for tinfoil hats…I think a supporter of that guy…the Rev Louis Farrakhan…Is more known for his waiting for the mother ship than I. The closest I come to a tinfoil hat is stock in Reynolds and Alcoa .
Go Dagger ! !
MMM Obviously- you have misunderstand my reference, Ritchie. The tin-foil comment is a joke that refers to protecting oneself in reaction to conspiracy theories. Nothing to do wth aliens.
Am I “incensed” when I propose that information by definition should have a verifiable and identifiable source? To me, it is plain old common sense- something that you have always appeared to have an abundance of, Ritchie.
Was I “defensive” re your comment #I06- wherin you implied that I am an unreliable source? No. I would certainly expect you to investigate any “facts” that I post here to be sure that they are verifiable by an alternative, identified, and reputable source. So why wouldn’t/shouldn’t I do the same? I have no “chagrin” whatsoever in this regard.
Assumed answers to unanswered questions are not facts- they are conjecture. And disputing answers that are provided and verified by reputable sources is a choice – but it does not make the conjecture any more valid.
Why not stick to the issues and undisputable facts? Now there we could have a real debate. I will base my vote on nothing less. If that is ” condescending”- so be it.
Curious…
It seems that only the information you submit is correct and verifiable…other credible and verifiable info is discounted by you as propaganda.
But I still love you…….(don’t get all crazy)
Go Dagger !
Curious I sure as hell hope your a woman…(chuckle)
Like a brother…….or a sister !
Ritchie-“other credible and verifiable info is discounted by you as propaganda”
Can you give me a ferinstance?
XXOOcurious
Curious…forinstance….
“curious on October 11th, 2008 2:14 pm
Yensen- I went to the Obama smear site you recommended. Interestingly enough- no where on the site do they identify their “staff”. So there is no way to find out if they are in any way reputable . My guess is- if you can’t put your name on it- it’s not trustworthy.”
So Ritchie- How is the stuff on that web site credible and verifiable?
I went to supposidly impartial sites posted here and saw nothing but palin trashing….thats credible…and my sites were blocked…had to cut and paste them….mine were the NY times….
So……. I will ask again:
So Ritchie- How is the stuff on that web site credible and verifiable?
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/sadly_mostly_true.html
Seems pretty even handed to me.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/warcriminal.asp
Fair info here as well…
curious….
It was you who tried to say everyone elses sites were bogus.
I quoted you and gave an example…now your trying to beat this with these two sites…you seem to think that you will set the standards…than be judge and jury…whats propaganda and what isnt…in effect…your deciding stuff for your cause is founded and what isnt isnt.
In beating this your now going in circles. Stating that your lopsided sites are legit vs my NY times article from 2001.
Fact check web sites use such things as NYT articles that I have cited as sources…lets remember that you called everyone else’s sites bogus. Furthermore your sites are question and answer sites that cite e-mails as sources.
Curious dont let somone tell you what to think.
Go Dagger !
Richie;
Arguing with curious is like masturbating out the window in an attempt to impregnate the world. This is one of those people who have their mind made up and don’t want to ever be confused with facts.
Ritchie-
“you called everyone else’s sites bogus” -not so. Please reread the thread- and let me know if you find any confirmation of that statement. Snopes and Fact check are the two sites I suggested as even handed reputable sources(#47). I posted the above (#132,133) to show that they are more than “anti- Palin links” (#50). I have no problem with the NYTimes or other publications who identify their authors and cite their sources. If you look at # 55 you will see that I agreed that the NYT article you cited was proof that Ayres is a crackpot. i just don’t see what that has to do with a guy who served on an educational committee with him 30+ years later. And the stuff that is out there linking them has been de-bunked- by the NYT , Snopes, factcheck and others.
The only source I tagged as bogus was the one posted by Yensen- Usweekly (#99)- which has anonymous sources (#103) and whose info when fact checked is unverified or twisted.
Perhaps what we have here is a failure to communicate?
“This is one of those people who have their mind made up and don’t want to ever be confused with facts.” Yensen.
I could say exactly the same about you.
You have yet to provide a fact from a named, reliable source.
Arguing with Yensen is like having sex with a blow up doll-
false and dissatisfying.
Touche.
Ritchie- Here is another link from a source we both find to be reputable:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?_r=3&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
And here is a thorough and annotated discussion on FactCheck:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html
Ritchie-
You and Yensen are completely entitled to you opinions. And you can base them on whatever you want. I unapoligetically prefer to base my opinions on information from sites that have identified authors who provide citations that I can trace and who’s biases and associations i can investigate. We can certainly agree to disagree. Regards!
Curious…its sunday…….!!!
Sorry, Ritchie- HE started it…
/hanging head, kicking at the dirt/
( do you still love me?)
Im in
Ritchie,
Here is another interesting NYT article:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27157703/
Curious…
That’s nice….what exactly is your point. You see NBC as stating this guy was the source of a story and they have problems with his credibility…that’s fine.
I don’t get your point…the nyt has many interesting articles….
Since you opened the door ill Que on to something….the article simple states that the subject has stated a myth as fact…without proving whether the fact/myth stated is in fact a myth or fact.
Here’s how it works…you can say what you believe and not site anything…that’s called opinion….
You can cite something and than say where you heard it….that’s opinion supported by fact.
You can cite a fact…that’s simply restating a fact.
But I still don’t understand what your trying to prove.
Go Dagger !
My point is exactly yours. A fact is a fact and opinion is opinion and we should be careful to characterize what we pass on honestly. Also- that we should always consider the source. So I actually think we can agree on this one!
She still loves me..(chuckle)
Go Dagger ! !