The following public comments were made to the Harford County Board of Education by Randy Cerveny, president of the Harford County Education Association. A copy was provided to The Dagger for publication:
President Wolkow, members of the BOE and Superintendent Tomback, I am Randy Cerveny the president of HCEA, I’m speaking on behalf of our teachers.
I don’t believe many in Harford County were surprised Friday when Executive Craig released his county budget, but educators were extremely disappointed and frustrated by his action. HCEA and other bargaining units negotiated their 2011-12 agreement, with the BOE in good faith. We understand that should funds not be available from the county, we have to return to negotiations. That’s the way it works in MD. You can understand why teachers feel like they have been slapped in the face again. Teachers have suffered 2 years without any financial increases and reduced benefits. Then to add to our misery and frustrations, earlier today the State conference committee that resolves the Maryland budget voted. They plan to increase pension contributions by 2% for all educators and reduce benefits for future teachers. This mean all teachers will take a 2% pay reduction next year.
We are aware that Harford County is not isolated from the challenging financial times. As board members, you are in a position to make teachers feel honored to be part of Harford County Public schools. Do what is right for our educators. To do this, all portions of your budget will suffer cuts. Make those cuts to areas that have the least impact on the staff, and that honor the students we serve. These cuts must have the least impact on student achievement. Harford’s Educators have continued to rise to the occasion of increased challenges and demands on their jobs Regardless of what happens now, you must determine a way for your educators to feel valued. We need your help. We are willing to work with you to find ways to respect Harford County Educators. Even in these tough times it does come down to money. Don’t put these cuts on the backs of the teachers.
emily wiget says
Dear Mr. Cerveny,
it seems quite obvious to me that neither the Board of Education or Mr. Craig have any respect for or appreciation of teachers in this county. It also seems quite obvious to me that the only alternative left to teachers is to enact a work to rule philosophy. Since you are the President of the HCEA, teachers are looking for leadership from you. You have talked to these people over and over and they have given you their response. When will you call a work to rule and show the council and executive that we mean business?
making ends meet says
Hi Emily (Randy too!),
I’d like to bring to your attention that we the money is NOT there. Harford County employees have not seen “COLA” in so long that they probably wouldn’t recognize him if they passed him on the street! Many families are barely keeping their homes -let alone their jobs.
Based on this years numbers it would seem like we’ll have a few less teachers next year. I’m not in favor of that but I think it’s the way it is. Emily, I support your “work to rule ethic” in these times and think that YOU individually should start now. By doing so you will make it so much easier to identify yourself along with others who’s attitude is dragging us down while everyone else is tightening out belts. Adios & good luck in the job market!
Alternatively, I’d suggest taking a breath and be happy to still have your home right now. If you feel seriously wronged then why not sincerely devote your energy to help the system find waste. I’d start in the Central Office.
Cdev says
My wife has to work to the rule but not by choice. SInce she will be required to get a second job to help make ends meet she will begin working no extra time and canceling her before and after school free tutoring. We also have scalled back her budget for extra supplies and things for kids from the 2,000 she spent last year to the simple 250 the federal govt lets us deducte from taxes.
dmichaels76 says
I’ve been teaching for quite a long time and one thing I’ve always said about teachers is that they are lousy business people.
Your career, no matter what it is, is a business. And the purpose of your business is to provide a living for yourself and your family.
If you got two bachelors degrees and a masters degree and loaded yourself with student loan debt before you ever got a job, this was a poor business decision. If you attended a private college and paid private college prices to get a teaching degree knowing full well what teacher salaries are, this was a poor business decision. If you spend $2000 of your own money on school supplies and then need to get a part time job to pay your bills, this is a poor business decision. If you spend your time that should belong to yourself and your family sponsoring all kinds of student clubs or coaching for the pittance that your are given, this is a poor business decision.
No one forced you to go deep into debt; you could get a teaching degree with two years of community college and two years at a state university. If you want to spend a large part of your salary on your students, that is very generous of you, but that is your choice.
Teachers, consider this: If BGE told you you didn’t have to pay for your electricity, would you send them some cash every month anyway? Well this is how everyone thinks. If it can be had for free or for cheap, then why should anyone pay more or at all for it? The problem is, once people get it for free or for cheap they think it should STAY that way. So if you have coached the drama club for 8 years and have accepted being paid pennies per hour, then YOU are the one who has told the public that they should expect cheap labor from you. Don’t be shocked that when you ask for a raise that they flip out.
You are devaluing your business and profession by your willingness to work on the cheap. You are undercutting yourself. You can love your students and love helping them and love the art of teaching, but some of you have concluded that this affection should be demonstrated by self-sacrifice and martyrdom, and then acting surprised when people expect nothing less from you.
Cdev says
Simply saying she put the money in classroom and offered free tutoring. Won’t be availible anymore.
HCPSteacher says
As an elementary school teacher in the HCPS system I spend my own money on supplies and materials because the school system does NOT provide the the NECESSARY items required to properly teach the lesson plans! You might call that a bad business decision – I call it being a competent teacher! I spent one hour shopping for the mterials I need to teach a science lesson tomorrow. The class will be divided into four groups. I puchased the following materials for each of the four groups: 1 foot of heavy duty sand paper, 3 feet of wax paper, 3 feet of bubble wrap and one piece of plywood. (I had plywood left over from teaching this lesson last year but used it to build a computer desk for my classroom.) This is a lesson that I am required to teach but the materials are not provided…..I guess I could modify the lesson plan and use the chalk I receive for free to just draw a diagram on the board.
dmichaels76 says
Right! So that exactly illustrates my point: if you are willing to buy all those things, why should the county foot the bill? And why should you expect the county to pay you back when they know that you will do it just out of wanting to be a “competent teacher”?
You want to feel that you are competent and they want people who they can coerce into dropping their own money on supplies just out of fear of being labeled “incompetent”. And you see? It works very well. You get to feel competent and they get free supplies.
But, I don’t think that teachers who feel competent without being taken advantage of should apologize for it.
i agree says
i agree
emily wiget says
Making ends meet,
teachers are not responsible for the hard times here in the county. They work their butts off every day to educate your children, they volunteer their time to coach, sponsor clubs, and offer after school help. AND, they have children of their own. We have given at the office for the last three years and my point is simple – find someone else to pick on when it comes to filling the county coffers. Perhaps the politicians who created this mess can start by cutting their own salaries and perks.
By the way, my attitude is not dragging us down. The county council, the superintendent and parents who don’t support teachers are dragging us down!!!
Sandy says
Emily, I agree teachers aren’t responsible for the economic troubles, but I don’t see how that makes it EVERYONE else’s fault. I support teachers by doing tons of volunteer work but most of us are hurting financially. We have had a big cut in our income as well. Teachers’ salaries vary and they do make extra for coaching. New teachers start out with low salaries, teachers who have been teaching for a long time make a good salary. The benefits are very good and you do have to count that into the salary to be fair.
We pay our health insurance in full, $1350.00 per month, my husband gets no vacation time and has worked for the same company for 9 years as a contractor. We pay both ends of social security taxes and he gets 5 paid holidays a year. No benefits at all, including no pension. And he gets no money at all from the county, state, or federal government. So, how can you say that it is everyone else’s fault? I respect teachers and donate supplies and time to make it a bit easier on them. In hard economic times everyone is going to have to give up some things they are used to. I wish it wasn’t that way, but to say that teachers are the only ones who shouldn’t have to do with less just isn’t realistic or fair. You are asking the private sector to accept their salary reductions as well as pay more in taxes so you can have more. It just doesn’t work that way. As I tell my kids, money just doesn’t grow on trees. And by the way, I have 2 kids in college. One on a very good scholarship, lucky for us. Don’t know what we will do when my high school junior starts college, if he chooses to go. Right now he is pretty sure he is going to join the Marines, it’s been his life long dream.
BA says
I agree with Emily that something should be done. Through the almost “villainization” of teachers what people don’t understand is just how bad things have gotten. With consistent budget cuts and noone doing anything, teachers have been devalued in our society and that is unacceptable.
To give you an idea of my life as a teacher (and many are worse off or in my same place) it is not a matter of “tightening my belt” in hard times. I am a third year teacher which means I have never gotten a step increase. I hold two bachelor’s degrees and a masters, which I am still paying for. Every year the interest on my loans goes up, my salary does not. I coach 2 seasons and make about 10 cents an hour if you equate my stipend. With this new system I can no longer afford to coach as I need a second job. By the time I pay my bills I have a leftover $128 for groceries, summer savings etc. (This is after canceling internet and cable in my house.) I love my job, I am a good teacher, but it’s getting where I cannot afford to be in this profession and still pay the education loans that earned me this position. Is this the lifestyle you want for our county’s teachers?
Sandy says
BA, I understand your point and I do feel for you. I feel for all of us and don’t want to see anyone’s taxes raised. I can’t afford to pay more taxes, we are cutting back on everything just to make ends meet. I agree that with the degrees you have, you are probably over qualified to be a teacher. We sat down with our children before they started college and looked up average salaries and helped them decide if the cost of the education was worth the salary they would earn. This was a huge eye opener to my girls! My oldest decided on an entirely different career when she looked at the actual numbers. She is now double majoring in deaf studies and early childhood developement. She started off wanting to teach in elementary ed and realized it would take too long to pay off the part of her education we are having her pay. She needs to do something she enjoys, but it has to make sense financially. Teaching preschool, which she does part time now and loves, combined with working with deaf children, another thing she loves, is allowing her to do something she loves while still allowing her to make enough money to make the schooling worth while. I think that is something that too many parents and their children forget to take into consideration. You have to choose a career that allows you to pay your bills.
My other daughter would love to be an oboe performace major, but she has a cousin who has her doctorate in bassoon performance, sees that she works at 7 colleges and teaches lessons on the side and still can’t make ends meet, so she decided to double major in Chemical Engineering and Oboe Performance. She could do this because of a scholarship. As she has been working with the music department in every way possible, playing in every concert, joining groups, helping accompany the choir, playing in the pit band, etc, most are for no credits just because she loves to play, she realized that to do what she wants to do she is dropping the oboe major to a minor. She is taking 23 credits this semester and that’s a crazy life for a freshman. Actually, after this semester, her first year, she will be a junior by credits, lol. Way too much work and time. I think there is an immportant lesson here, make sure your future career will pay for the lifestyle you will be happy with.
My son is only a junior in high school but I’m pretty sure he has completely made up his mind about joining the Marines. He aced the test, has been a Young Marine since he was 10 and is the highest ranking YM in his unit. He is in charge, under adult supervision most of the time, and knows how to lead. He has been the Honor Graduate in every national leadership school he has attended. Clearly, as much as it scares me, it is his calling. He has been to Parris Island for 2 weeks of boot camp, in the blazing heat of summer there, sand fleas and all, and loved every minute of it. My husband is a big guy and can barely lift the pack my son hikes miles with. He works out with the new recruits at the recruiting office, he is a recruiting officer’s dream. He doesn’t want to go in as an officer, he wants to go to boot camp and fight for his country. This is a teenager who spends his own money to buy flags and takes them to people who have tattered flags on their flag pole and asks them to please replace it, he will be happy to switch them out and take the old flag to a flag burning ceremony. He knows he will make no money to speak of, although he will start as a PFC instead of a Private, and if he comes out Honor Graduate one more time he will start as a Lance Corporal. My point is that he knows he will be living poor, but that is a sacrifice he is choosing to make. I don’t like it, but it is his life and his decision. We can only advise him.
Parents, please go over these facts with your children before they go off to college. They need to know what they are getting themselves into.
Cdev says
Sandy to be fair when the private sector was experiencing 10% raises a year and bonuses we told teachers you have job security and predictable increases no matter the economy, so you should get less. Now you don’t want to honor this end of the deal. The we is the voter and taxpayer.
Phil Dirt says
Cdev, who are these people in the private sector who were receiving 10% raises a year and bonuses, and when did this happen? Do you really think that everybody was having money thrown at them, or did you just read this somewhere?
Maybe it is time to bring teachers in line with the rest of the economy and start laying off hundreds at a time. Is that what you want, or just the good parts?
dmichaels76 says
PhilDirt: Part of the economic reality is that we can’t just lay off hundreds of teachers because there are too many kids who need to be educated. So, part of the economic reality is that while other industries may have suffered during the recession, education isn’t one of them; they still have plenty of customers. And part of THAT economic reality is that as long as you have customers that demand more and more from your business, they should expect to pay more. This too is economic reality.
Is that what you want, or just the bad parts?
Ryan Burbey says
Dear Emily,
Teachers aren’t even getting their salary steps. It is egregious what has been done to the county employees too. There is money. It is just a matter of priorities. You and I and every other civil servant is being taken for granted, maligned and abused. Look carefully at the county budget. http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/Budget/ It is time we, workers and teachers and other middle class citizens started being much more informed and active. If we don’t we will continue to be walked upon.
Im a Ha Co.Emploee says
I have not seen a step or a cost of living in three years. I also will be contributing to my retirement at a higher percent. It is the cost of the times and the added percent is not a pay cut as expressed by others. It is an investiment in my future that will be recieved at a later date. We government employees work at the pleasure of the tax payers we work for each day. If you are a Water Dept, Highways, Police, or Teacher you are in pretty secure employment and there are many county residene struggling to find a job and keep a home. I’m not whining; I can wait until things get better so that I can receive what I deserve.
HCPSTeacher says
Exactly!!!! When times are good again we will get rewarded just like in the past.
Cdev says
It is a pay cut when the extra money for your pension does not actually go to the pension but to the general fund!
Fact Check says
After a little bit of research: 18 of 23 counties in MD did not provide a step increase last year.Most of those counties did not provide a step increase in the past two years including Carroll and Frederick counties.
dmichaels76 says
OK, so let me get this straight…if Emily (or any other teacher) decides for WHATEVER reason that they can not or will not offer their personal services to the public at a free or reduced rate simply because they are a teacher, this constitutes some kind of “attitude” that is “dragging us down”?
Does the same go for everyone else? If my tax accountant won’t do my taxes this year for half of what he did them last year, does he have an “attitude that is dragging us down”? When the refrigerator repairman comes to my house and refuses to spend an extra hour coaching my son on how to hit a baseball, does he have an “attitude that is dragging us down”? If I drop my daughter off at the doctors office two hours before and let them babysit her and the doctor gets mad at me, does he have an “attitude that is dragging us down”?
Where did you even get the idea that you were even ENTITLED to more of a teachers time than has been stipulated in their contract? And how do you get the gall to state that a teacher who “only” fulfills their contractual obligation has an attitude problem?
Which is not to say there aren’t teachers with attitude problems. There are. Usually they are created by people constantly assuming that because they are teachers being paid through public funding that they are obligated to give an unlimited amount of time to whomever demands it of them and are not worthy of the same respect and consideration that one would give any other working person.
AbingdonTeacher says
Work to rule doesn’t hurt anyone except the students. The extra hours teachers spend outside of the contract are not to help themselves, they are spent helping students. By instituting work to rule, you only make us look worse, as we turn our backs on the kids.
Sandy says
Abingdon Teacher, thank you for your dedication to our children. My husband is self employed and we have had much more than a 2% pay reduction. I think the best solution is to get rid of teachers’ unions who insist that all teachers are treated equally no matter their job performance. I would first cut central office to a very bare minimum and then I would get rid of the tenure nonsense and pay teachers according to job performance. Sounds like teachers like you would be able to make more money and teachers who do the least amount they can should make less. Just like in the private sector.
For those who will respond, “How can you possibly judge the teachers?” Principal evaluations. I know there are problems with those who don’t get along with their principals, just like some people don’t get along with their bosses. But that’s just the way it works, your boss is responsible for your job performance evaluations. It may not be perfect, but it’s the best we have. And it certainly makes more sense than keeping terrible teachers and paying them the same as excellent teachers.
My best wishes to you and all teachers like you!
dmichaels76 says
You know, whenever I see this whole “let the administrators decide who the good teachers are” line of thought, it’s always disguised as some kind of explanation of how this will make schools better.
But really, what it means is that you want administrators to be able to can the teachers once they get too high on the pay scale. People love this idea because it means they would get education and all kinds of other stuff (sports training, drama club, etc) for their kids really cheap. And they think that teachers will absolutely knock themselves out trying to make sure they aren’t the ones that get the shaft. It’s a great idea, really, because you’d get young teachers with no families to worry about and a whole lot of college debt who would KILL themselves trying to make it in their chosen profession. Then once you squeezed them for all you could get out of them you could fire them at will. Lotsa bang for the buck. It’s the American Way!
This actually used to happen; so often, in fact, that the teachers had to band together to protect themselves from getting screwed in this manner.
And so, that’s exactly why there is a teachers union: to protect people who happen to be teachers from the financial wrath of their fellow man who would just as soon not have to pay for their kids education.
emily wiget says
Abingdon teacher,
your response that work to rule is hurting students is ridiculous. You must be an elementary teacher because only elementary teachers would assume such a martyr complex. Did you enter this profession by agreeing to take a vow of poverty? Remember that the parents of your students voted the politicians into office who have been threatening your livelihood and future. Do you have kids of your own? When it comes time to send your kids to college and you can’t afford it, will the colleges allow YOUR kids to go anyway because ‘it’s for the kids’ “? Stand up for yourself and stop being the sheep to the county’s wolf!
AbingdonTeacher says
Oh please… martyr complex?? I simply stated a fact. By invoking work to rule you make ZERO impact on the Central Office and whoever else you are trying to make your point to. The only people you impact are the kids you teach.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not happy about the contract situation. But I am thankful for the job I have. Coming from another state where jobs are extremely hard to come by, my friends and family back home would laugh at our contract issues.
People are tired of hearing from teachers like you that simply complain about paychecks. Would I like to make more, sure, should I make more, sure… but is their enough money to go around for that, not right now.
We should instead focus on being the best teaching staff that we can, and not make more enemies but invoking silly tatics like “work to rule”
HCPS Teacher says
AMEN ABINGDON TEACHER!!!!!
Sandy says
Abingdon Teacher, I have so much respect for you. Thank you for choosing to educate our children in such a positive manner. I do wish we could pay teachers more and I would love to cut some administration positions and salaries to do it, but that’s not going to happen. I have been fighting for it for years. In fact, I sent an email to Mr. Volrath asking him to please do whatever he can to help keep more teachers this morning, before I even saw this conversation. Someone really needs to make teachers see the benefits they get are part of their salary. No one seems to get this. You just don’t get these kinds of benefits in many places. I dont begrudge this at all, I’m happy to see the teachers get as much as we can give them, but everyone needs to be realistic.
The biggest tell in all of this is attending BOE meetings. There have been some pretty crazy things going on in the school system in the last 5 or so years, things that really hurt the children. Yet there is never a teacher in attendance unless there is something affecting teacher pay on the agenda. I go to meetings and speak and ask for help for teachers, yet I have never once gone and heard a teacher speak and ask for help for students. I wonder why that is?
AbingdonTeacher says
A lot of us are absent from BOE meetings for a variety of reasons, including the work we do outside of the day (i.e. coaching, after school programs, etc.)
One of the biggest complaints I hear from colleagues is the way some teachers represent us at BOE meetings. The fight last year over the changes in our health care was a prime example. Were the changes wrong and unjust, definitely. Did we need to stand up and fight, definitely. Did we need to outside on the street ringing bells, chanting, and honking car horns while inside an excellent principal who died doing the job he loved was being posthumously inducted into the Educator hall of fame? Absolutely not. Did we have to send hot head after hot head up to the microphone to speak about things they were not knowledgeable about, including numerous comments about food being purchased for school and central office meetings, which had been cut out of school budgets over 2 years ago? Absolutely not.
We too often look petty and whiny because the ones who speak for us don’t know what to say or how to say it.
Do I feel underappreciated, overworked, and underpaid? You bet. Can the BOE, County Exec, or County Council do anything about that right now? No, not unless they hurt someone else like the Sheriff’s Dept, which is wrong.
Now is the time to stand with the rest of the county and take the lick everyone is taking and be patient. The county has rewarded us in the past and it will again when it can afford to.
The “association” is getting what it asked for when it blindly threw its support behind O’Malley and the rest of the Dems, who only care about us when its election time.
Ryan Burbey says
Sandy,
The reason teachers aren’t at the board of ed meetings is many are too busy working on school work or classes or a second job. Every citizen of this county should be outraged at the poor commitment and lack of support that the teachers, students and education in general receive.
emily wiget says
Abingdon Teacher,
you do have a martyr complex. And no impact on the central office? are you kidding me. Our services are being taken for granted by the bigwigs at central office and on main street who determine our salaries and reserve the big fat contracts for themselves! Let them coach, let them sponsor clubs, let them provide after school help. Their paychecks are far bigger than ours and they can afford to dedicate more of their time then a teacher can. Teachers are also being taken for granted by the parents who have gotten to accustomed to teachers dedicating their time for free to help their kids at the expense of their own. If we stopped wasting money on incompetent administrators, useless programs, teacher training days that are complete wastes of time and athletic programs that supercede academics, maybe there would be money available for the real workers in the school system.
By the way, we are the best teaching staff we can be which is why this state has been ranked #1 in the nation. And what is our reward – they spit in our face and force us to work for less then we are worth! If you are comfortable with your pay, fine. Leave the rest of us alone. We work hard, deserve fair compensation, and realize that “thank you’s” from David Craig and the county council will not be accepted by BGE or Exxon or Giant as payment.
AbingdonTeacher says
Again, whiny and misinformed. Big wigs and their fat contracts at central office? We have one of the smallest and lowest paid administrations and mid-level adminstrations of any county in the state. Our central office is fairly lean compared to our neighboring counties. If they had so much money to throw around up there why would 1 person be in charge of certification for thousands of teachers? If you hate it that much and feel that disrespected, find a new county to work for.
DA says
@ABINGDONTEACHER
HCPS should not have anyone handling certification/recertification for teachers. Teachers are professionals licensed by the State like many others and should take care of their credential themselves.
Just because we have a lean central office staff compared to others does not mean it could not be more lean. I am not talking about the underlings but those at the top. Just watch, Tomback will ask for staff reductions of teachers and will not touch upper administrative staff. He may say something about Instructional facilitators but he was planned to get rid of them anyway so they don’t reall count.
Cdev says
DA teachers are not permitted to handle their own certification per state law. If you are employeed by a LEA (such as HCPS) they are required to process it!
Teacher's Wife says
Other state strike, teachers in this state don’t have that option.
Teachers have to do something, and work to rule may be the only option teachers have.
dmichaels76 says
Work to rule does not mean you should stop grading papers or planning classes; it means stop coaching, sponsoring clubs, joining committees, etc. These are generally things that don’t effect the kids EDUCATION so much as they may effect their social lives.
If you don’t mind working for cheap or for free, all the power to you. But that doesn’t mean everyone should. And if teachers feel their personal time is better spent on personal matters, that’s their business. It doesn’t make them lesser teachers.
I think that some of the comments here are demonstrative of what a lot of teachers are tired of: if we don’t work above and beyond what we are contracted to do, we are greedy and unprofessional. I don’t understand how it even got to be that people feel ENTITLED to my personal and family time, or feel that I am obligated to give my time away to their kids just because I am a teacher.
Common Sense says
How can you honestly complain about pay increases when NO ONE in the County is receiving them? I could understand if it was everyone but the teachers, but it’s no one! Don’t you think that the rest of us could use an increase? Teachers aren’t the only ones with student loans to pay off, increased pension and healthcare contributions and higher cost of living expenses.
Just stop. You’re embarrassing yourself. Be thankful to God that you have a job and a roof over your head.
Sandy says
Common Sense, I do agree and feel sorry for all who are hurt in this economy. My heart really goes out to our county sheriffs, local police, and all others who put their lives on the line for us.
emily wiget says
Common sense,
I can complain about pay increase because it has been too long since I received one, because I am not responsible for the economic hard times that we are now enduring, and because the politicians who created this mess are exempting themselves from sharing in the misery. Did you happen to notice that the 2% pension increase that was forced upon teachers (an increase that does not go towards our pensions at all) was agreed to by politicians in Annapolis who just happened to exempt themselves from the same increase! They create the mess and them want me to pay for it. I don’t think so! I agree that teachers are not the only ones who are suffering. My advice to you is to grow a set and fight for what you deserve, just like I am!!!
Sandy says
Emily, the teacher’s unions support the democratic party. Martin O’Malley also exempted judges from the 2% increase. Do you think it is a coincidence that his wife is a judge? Getting rid of teachers’ unions would be the biggest help to teachers. Do you feel HCEA, for example, has really done anything to help you as a teacher. I have been paying attention for years and when something like this happens I have NEVER seen them really go to bat for our teachers. It seems to me you could save those dues and put them to better use! Wondering how you feel about the unions.
emily wiget says
Sandy,
you made some good points about the unions (actually it is not a union but an association.) As far as I am concerned, Gov. O’Malley has sold out the teachers who supported him by agreeing to the 2% pension (tax) increase on teachers. As for the HCEA, I think they have been helpful in the past but lately, they have become too passive and their leadership too meek for my tastes. Randy Cerveny needs to step up and meet this latest slap at teachers head on. Writing a letter to David Craig begging him to change his mind is the wrong approach. Mr. Craig has already made his intentions clear. Now it is time to see what Mr. Cerveny is going to do. You’re up Randy. Piss or get off the pot!
Sandy says
Emily, as in the past, I would bet you will see nothing more from Mr. Cerveny. He seems to always want to stay best of friends with the politicians. I truly don’t understand how he got the position he has. He does his part to the minimum, write a nice letter and that’s it. What a waste of money! I admit that I am generally anti union, but I just don’t ever see that HCEA has ever done anything to help the teachers. I think you would all be better off keeping your money and getting rid of them altogether!
Im a Ha Co.Emploee says
Sandy, you hit it out of the park on this last comment. The Teacher’s Union will be out inforce in the next election handing out their slate on papers shaped like apples supporting O’Malley and his party. They just can’t see past the D on the ballot. They whine about the politicians but keep electing the same party over and over in our state. Our Delegates and Senators do not have a chance in the Democrat Annapolis. Just look at the current tax program that sends school funding to Montgomery, Prince George, and Baltimore City the Democrat strong hold on State power. You are not going to see teachers unions fight that unfair split of funding. I will laugh at the next election at the teachers handing out the slates.
Cdev says
I may be wrong but doesn’t Craig have an R after his name and I am fairly certian he was on their ballott!
Cdev says
To be fair the majority of the population also lives in those three jurisdictions!
Ryan Burbey says
Our outrage should be your outrage. Our county leaders and school leaders are choosing to fund other priorities over their most valuable asset, their employees. It is not just about “raises”, it is about honesty. It is about not using teachers’ salaries as the solution to decreased funding. It is about not cutting county workers wages to fund giant tax rebates for businesses. Read the budgets. There is money…
me says
Where would you specifically make cuts to the budget? I apologize if you’ve already addressed this, but I’ve seen you post “read the budget. there’s money” a few times and would be curious as to what you would suggest.
dmichaels76 says
You’re absolutely right and I agree with you. But on the other hand no one expects people with other jobs to work for free, either. I don’t know of a single other job that, if you fulfill the obligations of your contract but not work additional hours at the whim of a third party, then you are subject to being berated. If a county employee in the Planning and Zoning office works to contract, they are doing their job. But if a teacher says they are going to work to contract he/she is a greedy, unprofessional slimeball.
HCPS Teacher says
I completely Agree with Common Sense!!! I have written on other pages on this forum the same thing. THERE IS NO MONEY!!!!!!!!!! YES!!! I would love a raise and a step. However, there is no money to fund this. Working to the rule will only hurt the students and I just can’t stand to do that to them. It is NOT THEIR FAULT!!!!!!!! They are only pawns in this situation. I have neighbors and friends who are barely holding on or have even lost their homes and jobs. I am lucky to have my home and job period. These are tough times. GET OVER IT!!!!!! When this county has a surplus of funds and people are not loosing their homes and jobs THEN I WILL EXPECT MY RAISE AND STEP!!!!! Until then, I will just have to be content on coming in and seeing the smiling faces of my students to get me through.
Sandy says
HCPS Teacher, a special thank you to you also. I hope the parents of the students you teach appreciate you and the wonderful attitude you bring to school with you. It makes a huge difference. When my son moved from elementary school, a school where morale was terrible and the teachers spent lots of time complaining, to a middle school where most of the teachers were happy to be there, he came home the first day of school and told me middle school is so much better because the teachers LIKE us. Negative attitudes really do affect the students.
emily wiget says
hcps teacher,
see my remarks to common sense. and by the way – BAA! BAA!
HCPS Teacher says
Emily!! I am praying to GOD right now you are not my son’s teacher.
emily wiget says
HCPS teacher,
you should be so lucky! For your fyi, I earn my paycheck each and every day. I also know my worth and am not willing to settle for less as you apparently are. Your son attends school in one of the best counties in the state. And this state has been rated the #1 state in the country for education. Do you think that happened because Martin O’Malley, David Craig, and Superintendent Tomback are really good at their jobs? No. It happened because the teachers in this state worked their butts off. And how do they say thanks – keeping our salaries stagnant while groceries, gas, and utility bills keep climbing! Dedicated teachers who work hard and seek monetary compensation for their efforts are not greedy or selfish – they are parents, and single people trying to survive in an ever increasingly expensive county. The days of coaching your children for meager pay, sponsoring your children’s clubs for nothing and tutoring your children for free need to end.
P.S. You are welcome for your son’s education.
Brenda says
I am another person that is thrilled Ms. Emily is NOT my children’s teacher. Bitterness, arrogance and immaturity is what I’m seeing as I review this link. Help yourself to find another job outside HCPS. It might just be a happier environment for all of us.
And thank you to all the teachers who are accepting this difficult economic time and are pushing forward with passion and a sunny smile. So many are facing foreclosures and are evening dealing with the real possibility of homelessness! ZERO benefits, no regular paycheck, etc. Hello out there. Seriously I bet there will be teacher lay-offs next year, God help us. Then we will be wishing we had today’s job with reduced benefits and no raise.
I’m just saying …
Thomas Paine says
First of all, God has nothing to do with this. Pray all you like, but whatever you think he is or does, he certainly doesn’t pay taxes or adjust budgets.
Of course you don’t want a teacher or their associations complaining about their salaries, because that would mean that you might actually have to pay more for the services that teachers provide. You want the cheapest education system possible. However, instead you should want teachers who stand up and get involved and put pressure on politicians to make the right decisions. Wouldn’t you want your children to do the same thing when they get older? How about some support for us when we are the one’s who are responsible for your kids and their futures? Or, just keep on living on the cheap and suffer the consequences when teachers stop doing the things you have taken for granted.
Just because you and many others are struggling to make ends meet, does not mean the cost of services that are provided to you will decrease. And that is what you are asking for. The number of students I teach, the technology I have had to learn to use, and the education I have accumulated has increased every year I’ve been teaching. But what you are saying is that I should be paid less for what I provide because you are having trouble paying for it. Well, tell me how that works out for you when you take your car in to the shop and you only have the money to pay for the oil change, but not for the busted radiator. I’m pretty sure you won’t be driving home. The fact is, you and the rest of the residents in Harford County can pay for salary increases for all county employees. You just don’t want to.
Ryan Burbey says
Read the budget. There is money…
dmichaels76 says
You know, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if you are actually NOT an HCPS teacher. But I do admire your creativity!
oldteach says
I realize there is no money, but here is my question. Teachers were hired on a salary scale. If and when the good times return will raises cover all steps lost? Or will they just resume from current pay level. So a teacher who has taught 10 years, will actually be paid as a 7 year teacher?
emily wiget says
Old Teach,
you know full well that a teacher who taught 10 years will be paid a 7 year teacher. You think the powers to be care about that? Keep fighting and don’t give up!!! We’ve done our part and it does not make us greedy or selfish to remind those who hold the purse strings to do theirs!
Ryan Burbey says
There is money. Read the budgets.
Phil Dirt says
That makes no sense. When the economy turns around, teachers should get raises to make up for the bad times with no raises? Oh sure, if you want to think like that, then when times are tough, they should get pay cuts to make up for the good years?
Didn’t anyone study logic? It’s a very simple game. When times are good, folks should get raises. When times are tough, they shouldn’t. People with greater job security and more generous benefits should get smaller raises than those without.
Teacher's Wife says
Every week teachers are asked to do more and more and more. Create more tests, analyze more data, follow new guidelines, follow this 504 plan, make sure this student is getting this accommodation, larger class sizes, more paperwork. It is difficult to survive.
I understand that there is not enough money for steps, which is a fact that can’t be changed. What can be changed is how teachers are treated. Somewhere along the way teacher became the enemy and everyone could blame all problems on the teachers. Let them do their jobs and trust they will do their best. I think that is what is so frustrating for teachers: more work, more hoops to jump through, more policies and not more support from anyone.
Students are suffering because teachers are being crushed by outside forces that seem to have no real idea what it takes for success in the classroom.
Change needs to happen.
Sandy says
Teacher’s Wife, I agree with your comments. The amount of nonsense paperwork teachers have to do is ridiculous. You are probably right in that most parents don’t know this. But you can count on the parents who pay attention to know about it and to fight against it. Until we get a superintendent who cares what the parents think, we aren’t going to get anywhere. I am one of the parents who fought hard for a majority elected school board. While that is another whole debate entirely, my reasoning is that we had too many administrators who don’t really care what anyone thinks, they are just out there to make themselves look like heros.
We will still have a lot of federal nonsense, but let’s really hope that the elected school board members will see how ridiculous some of this is and start listening! The less nonsense the more time teachers can devote to teaching. Imagine that.
Hacodem says
How does getting rid of the union solve the financial problem?
Teachers deserve to make a decent living just like the rest of us. Some post here say oh thank you for being a teacher but bend over and let me show you what I really think about your profession. Teaching is not an easy job, you not only have to try and teach the kids something but you also must be their parent and teach them discipline and respect since many parents just push that job on the teacher. Be it a good, bad or in between teacher I respect you for the profession you have chosen as I think this is an admirable career you have chosen to undertake.
Ryan Burbey says
Getting rid of unions actually seems to make it worse. Look at the state with the most restrictive union busting laws. They have the biggest budget problems.
Thomas Paine says
No money for teacher’s steps or raises for other county employees? Seriously? Have you seen the multimillion dollar athletic facilities and administrative offices this county has built in the last several years? How about the useless administrative positions in all county departments with salaries over 100K?
I’m tired of Harford County taxpayers trying to pay the least for the services they recieve. I understand it, but eventually you are going to get what you pay for.
If teachers work to rule, for me that’s 7 am – 2:20 pm, you will see this school system fall a apart. And those of you who think that only hurts the kids don’t know what teachers do every day. If we stop coaching, stop returning parent emails or phone calls which we are not required by the contract to do (only have parent conferences), stop writing curriculum, stop writing assessments, stop having meetings outside the contracted work day, stop having plays and concerts, stop everything but teaching, then maybe people will begin to understand exactly what we do and the services we provide. Are we compensated for those things? Rarely and if so, very little.
Saying it will hurt the kids is a strawman argument. It’s the parents of our students who don’t want to fairly compensate us for our services that are hurting us.
Saying we should be lucky we have a job or a house it too. Tell me another profession where you have to have a bachelors degree to get a job, have a masters degree to keep the job, and then continue to take enough graduate credits every couple of years to continue to be certified that makes less than $60,000 after 10 years. You can’t compare apples to oranges. For the education we are required to have with the salaries we make, we are grossly underpaid, not to mention the impact we have on the future of our communities.
Teachers, work to rule, or the only people we have to blame for our situation are ourselves.
emily wiget says
Thomas Paine,
thank you so much for that bit of Common Sense! BRAVO!!!
Parents – wake up and choose sides now. Support your teachers or watch your school system slip into the abyss of mediocrity!!!
Ryan Burbey says
The only way things will change in Harford County is if all the concerned citizens rally in support of teachers, education and kids. Join your union. Become active. County workers form a union. Fight for your rights and stop believing the non-sense argument of “There is not money.” Read the budgets!!!!
Edgewood Resident says
To all the teachers who are posting here, where do you suggenst we come up with the pay increases that you say you deserve so much? Almost all the people I know haven’t gotten raises in years either, they deserve raises too! Their cost of living has gone up too. Do you want to tell then them they have to pay more in taxes so you can get a raise while they fall furthur behind? How would that be fair? Your not any better than the rest of us who are struggling in the current economy!
Here is a better idea for the teachers out there. All the teachers get together and come up with a way to pay for their raises, without raising taxes, or cutting necessary services in the existing budget. If you can do that, that all the money you can find can be split up among the teachers for your new raise. Or go ask Obama for a bail out!
dmichaels76 says
No one knows better the amount of money that is urinated away by the school system than teachers. That’s why teachers have known for years all the ways to increase not only salaries and benefits for themselves, but resources that go DIRECTLY into classrooms and benefit children. Here are just a few examples:
1) Get rid of inservice days. They are a waste of time. Period.
2) Get rid of all the people whose sole purpose is to plan and implement inservice. Instructional facilitators and the like. Get rid of them all.
3) Chop the endless layers of administration. All those six-figure salary “Supervisor of Supervisory Supervision” people. There are tons of them. Can them.
4)Load all the computers in the system with LINUX. It’s free. And so are all the apps for it. Millions and millions of dollars could be saved.
5) Stop paying people for coaching. If you want to coach, volunteer. If a teacher doesn’t volunteer, get a parent to volunteer. If a parent doesn’t volunteer, tough luck. Cancel the season. Not fair to the kids? Tell the parents. It’s their kids, let them come out and coach them for free.
6) Cut the superintendent’s salary in half.
7) Make every administrator in the system teach at least ONE class. Superintendent included. If you want to work for the kids, work WITH the kids. No more teaching your token two or three years just so you can climb the edu-corporate ladder. Teach half a day, administer half a day. We’ll save a bundle by cutting your full admin salary and by not having to hire as many teachers.
There. There are seven ways the school system could save millions of dollars and it won’t cost the taxpayers one red cent. And it comes straight from the mouth of a teacher.
Pavel314 says
DMichaels76: You should be on the school board.
Cdev says
To be fair they wanted to use the constant yield when it was advantageous to them and got it changed …….now they want to ignore it because of it’s inconvienence.
emily wiget says
Edgewood resident,
to piggyback on what DSMichael had to say, here is another way to save. Lets start charging parents for the coaching, tutoring, and sponsoring of clubs that they have been brainwashed into thinking are “free services.” You want these things for your children, either pay teachers or do it youself. Even better, remove athletics from the school system and its “limited” budget and turn everything over to Parks and Recreation. They handle T-Ball, Little League, and other league sports, let them handle high school athletics!
Not from Here says
Love the idea of charging parents. However, in MANY schools parents are the ones who run the programs. Take a look at the Destination Imagination program that just had its state tournament. HCPS counts it as part of its gifted education (don’t get me started on that), and yet parents manage the teams. There may be a teacher coordinator and many of the coordinators give hundreds of hours of their time. However, parents also give hundreds of hours. And I know this because? I managed seven team over six years and volunteered a seventh year to appraise.
dmichaels76 says
I’ve been teaching for quite a long time and one thing I’ve always said about teachers is that they are lousy business people.
Your career, no matter what it is, is a business. And the purpose of your business is to provide a living for yourself and your family.
If you got two bachelors degrees and a masters degree and loaded yourself with student loan debt before you ever got a job, this was a poor business decision. If you attended a private college and paid private college prices to get a teaching degree knowing full well what teacher salaries are, this was a poor business decision. If you spend $2000 of your own money on school supplies and then need to get a part time job to pay your bills, this is a poor business decision. If you spend your time that should belong to yourself and your family sponsoring all kinds of student clubs or coaching for the pittance that your are given, this is a poor business decision.
No one forced you to go deep into debt; you could get a teaching degree with two years of community college and two years at a state university. If you want to spend a large part of your salary on your students, that is very generous of you, but that is your choice.
Teachers, consider this: If BGE told you you didn’t have to pay for your electricity, would you send them some cash every month anyway? Well this is how everyone thinks. If it can be had for free or for cheap, then why should anyone pay more or at all for it? The problem is, once people get it for free or for cheap they think it should STAY that way. So if you have coached the drama club for 8 years and have accepted being paid pennies per hour, then YOU are the one who has told the public that they should expect cheap labor from you. Don’t be shocked that when you ask for a raise that they flip out.
You are devaluing your business and profession by your willingness to work on the cheap. You are undercutting yourself. You can love your students and love helping them and love the art of teaching, but some of you have concluded that this affection should be demonstrated by self-sacrifice and martyrdom, and then acting surprised when people expect nothing less from you.
dmichaels76 says
My previous post was directed towards teachers. Now here’s one for the rest of you:
Let’s say you are sick with a cold and your neighbor brings you some soup. The next day you are still sick, and they bring you some sushi. The next day you are still sick and they bring you some pork loin. The next day you are still sick and they….where are they? THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BRING ME FOOD!!!! Those rotten sobs! What kind of people don’t bring food to their neighbors when they are sick!!!!
This is how y’all’s are acting. You have teachers who have done a lot for you for so little for so long that you actually think that you are entitled to more of the same. You aren’t. You weren’t “entitled” to it in the first place. A teacher who decides that because of the particulars of their own financial situations can no longer go “above and beyond” because they need to take on a part time job or become a paid tutor is well within both their right AND THEIR CONTRACT to do so.
Working to contract does not make a teacher unprofessional, a poor example, or a greedy slob, any more than your demanding that people owe you something for free makes you any of those things. It’s understandable because you’ve been conditioned by generosity, just as most teachers have been conditioned to go beyond their contract. And there is nothing at all inherently “wrong” about this arrangement until the teacher starts getting called names just because they aren’t in a position where they can give their time away any longer.
I know people who were making two or three times (or more) what I make as a teacher who spent every dime on “stuff”. Now they are ticked off because they are struggling to stay afloat, and “how dare these teachers”! The reality of my teacher salary has demanded that I exercise a certain amount of restraint; if you are in a business that is subject to market conditions and you didn’t plan ahead, that was a poor business decision.
In the meantime, the business of teaching is still going strong, and I fully expect to get paid for my time, just like every other worker in every other business.
oldteach says
What is sad is how in the last months in our country teachers, police, firefighters, etc have become vilians. Some believe we are overpaid, and underworked. Some just don’t plain respect the profession, but they can’t wait for school to begin every year so their kids are out of their house.
Now you add to that the fact that teacher morale will most definately begin to drop. Teachers are beginning to get dumped on by all sides.
dmichaels76 says
No one really believes that teachers, police officers, and firefighters are overpaid and underworked. If they did, there would be a mass exodus out of other jobs and into those professions. People just want to pay as little as possible for services. Plus, they are angry at the government (as well they should be) and it just so happens that these people (particularly teachers) are the ones they could easily reach out and slap and get away with it.
Teacher says
I have taught in Harford County for many years. Working to rule is simply unrealistic. Some days there is just too much to do and not enough hours during the paid school day to get it all completed. It’s the nature of the job.
As for our steps and COLA, yes, they would be greatly appreciated. Who couldn’t use a few extra dollars in our accounts? However, if the money is not there for this purpose, then the money is not there. I’m thankful I have a job I enjoy, health insurance, a roof over my head, and, most importantly, my family. Everyone, please remember, it will get better.
dmichaels76 says
Work-to-rule is unrealistic from the standpoint of grading papers, planning classes, etc. But it is certainly not unrealistic from the standpoint of “quit volunteering to coach, sponsor clubs, serve on committees” etc.
I’m also grateful for all the benefits of my employment, but I also paid a premium for them. I served in the Army so I could get my GI Bill to help with college costs; the rest I paid for by working and student loans, which took me ten years to pay off. During those ten years I also had to finance a masters degree, which is also an expensive requirement of our profession.
Years ago, I remember an Aegis editorial that said “when HCPS schools are tops in the state, THEN we’ll consider making teachers the top paid in the state”. Then when HCPS WAS tops in the state, an Aegis editorial proclaimed “why should we pay teachers more when we are already top in the state at the rates we’re paying?”
My wife lost a step increase 20 years ago and it was never reinstated. That means for the last 20 years she has earned 2k less than if they had reinstated the step. That’s about 40k. I didn’t get my longevity increase this year, and my wife is due for one this year. If they do away with them again, that’s 6k in two years between the two of us.
dmichaels76 says
So when it gets better, as you say, do you think the fine people of Harford County would mind giving my family $46,000 cash that we would have had, so I could send MY kids to college?
dmichaels76 says
Teachers:
If you are asking the union to implement a “work-to-contract” arrangement, keep in mind that this would be a lot easier to do and much more effective if the “union” involved more than 70% of the teacher workforce. Demanding that HCEA work on your behalf for your personal benefit while you sit on the sidelines waiting to be handed the fruits of their labor is really no different than the public demanding that you work “above and beyond” for their kids while denying you salary increases.
I Left says
Why are people classifying the steps as “raises”? They are increases written into the contract. The county uses them to recruit new teachers.
Two thing non-teachers should think about:
1- For all of you sharing your private sector woes, and claiming that teachers need to “tighten their belts” and “share the burden,” where were you when the economy was booming? Why you were raking in money hand over fist, why were you not lobbying for teachers to “buy a new suit” and to “share in the wealth”? Living and dying by the market is part of being in the private sector. The reason people go into teaching knowing that it only offers a modest salary is because of that buffer against poor economic times. The public sector is SUPPOSED to get modest salaries with regular steps, in good times and in bad.
In short– Don’t complain about teachers wanting the steps they were promised unless you plan to lobby with equal vigor to give them 6-figure salaries in times of economic boom.
2- Teachers accepted 3 years worth of freezes before getting angry. For three years, the county violated the contract. For three years, they lied to new teachers (advertising a step salary schedule they had no intention of following). Teachers are getting angry because it has become clear that, if they don’t, the county has no intention of following the contract. The teachers, even though the biggest perk of the job is supposed to be that they don’t HAVE to worry about bad economic times, did more than their part and accepted the step freezes for three years. They are getting angry now because it is evident that they will retire 35 years from now on a first year teacher’s salary if they don’t (finally) stand up for themselves.
Finally, one thing for the teachers to consider–Harford County, a relatively well-off county, is the only one in the area to freeze steps for three years and counting. If things don’t change in the next year, they won’t change for the next dozen years. If that happens, it’s probably time to leave. If HCPS wants to be the only county in the area to nickel and dime their education system, it won’t be a system worth teaching in soon anyways.
Phil Dirt says
I Left, you claimed: “For all of you sharing your private sector woes… where were you when the economy was booming? Why you were raking in money hand over fist, why were you not lobbying for teachers to ‘buy a new suit’ and to ‘share in the wealth’?”
Why do some many people think that non-teachers were making obscene amounts of money when the economy was doing better? There were very few with huge raises and gigantic bonuses. Most workers did receive modest raises, but the employee contibutions to health care continued to increase, and most of the retirement contributions still came from the employees themselves.
What did happen was that many assumed that things would continue to improve so they assumed more debt than they could handle, leading to the massive numbers of bankruptcies and foreclosures. However, this myth of most private sector workers riding waves of cash is simply that – a myth. A select few (often those who took big risks) cashed in big, but the vast majority maintained their levels or improved only slightly.
spenser says
Dmichaels76 is absolutely right on all his posts. He obviously is logical. Teachers, work to rule. Teachers, be professional, stop acting like it is not a profession that demands respect. Let the constantly complaining parents take on the extracurricular activities. Also this system needs to be streamlined from the top, leave the teachers alone. They are barely making it.
Thomas Paine says
I have heard “there is no money to pay for teacher salary increases”, “taxpayers are strapped”, “teachers are no better than anyone else who is not getting a pay increase (I actually beg to differ with the level of education I have been required to obtain)” and “what should be cut to pay for the salary increases?”. I have also heard lots of answers. Regardless of whether you agree with those answers, it is likely teachers, along with other county workers, will not get a salary increase for a third year in a row, probably longer.
Teachers don’t control the budget. But there is one thing we do control…the quality of education the citizens of this county pay for which consists of teachers that are paid for 7.5 hours a day for 190 days a year. Keep planning our lessons, keep teaching our lessons, and keep grading our papers, however long that takes, but stop doing everything else…coaching, tutoring, mentoring, sponsoring, chaperoning, curriculum writing, being apart of SIT, FAC, PTA, going on field trips, etc. Use up your sick leave. If the citizens of this county want more from us, then they can pay us for it.
Or you can just complain about our lack of compensation and hope for better days ahead.
I think the most important question for teachers to ask themselves is…how bad does it have to get…how much do our salaries have to be cut…how much more do we have to pay for health insurance and our pensions…before you decide that enough is enough and begin to do something about it? Before I decide to leave this profession, which I have dedicated 12 years of my life to and have performed exceptionally as so many others have, because of being undervalued and underpaid, I hope that we can find a leader who can motivate the educators of this county to send a message to its citizens that for too long they have taken for granted what we do. Mr. Cerveny, are you that leader? Is someone else out there that can unite us?
Im a Ha Co.Emploee says
Hey if you wanted to find ways to save money in the school budget, here’s one for you. Your benefits for health care would be much better if you and the college joined the rest of the county employees when putting it out to bid. Large pool bigger savings. Why do you go alone on this Mr. Burbey?
Fact Check says
Already happening. The college,county and board long ago join forces to bid health care benefits.
Im a Ha Co.Emploee says
If that is so why such a verying in coverages and cost? Shouldn’t they all have the same plan? They don’t, I know!!
Taxpayer says
No raise not only affects teachers, it affects all HCPS employees. I now have a decision to make — accept the current condition or seek a new profession.
Teachers can make the same decision. If you feel you are underpaid, seek another line of work. Otherwise, it is your responsibility, as long as you continue to accept that paycheck, to perform the duties of teaching. If you do not want to do the extras, skip it.
You are no different than anyone else out there also dedicated to their professions who put in extra time and spend some of their personal income on job aids, etc. You accepted the position, benefits, pension and other perks and also had some very good increases in the past, along with guaranteed job security, something most of Americans would love to have. Times are tough and will be tougher. Plan ahead.
dmichaels76 says
Hey…you’re a taxpayer! What a coincidence! For I, too, am a taxpayer!
Thomas Paine says
Times are tough and teachers do plan ahead. And so should you. You are telling teachers to basically suck it up. And I’ll say the same to you when you start to complain about teachers no longer providing the extracurricular activities that keep kids occupied while there parents are working, when teaches stop providing the exceptional education that they have for so long in this county, when you start to get the education system that you pay for, when this country falls further behind technologically and economically. I think you should be the one to suck it up and pay more taxes (just as I will) to ensure that those responsible for the future successes in this county and country are provided the education they deserve.
Taxpayer says
Why does everyone believe more money equates to better education. If that was the case, we would have outstanding students and not be falling behind other countries in technology and economics, as you point out. Schools systems need to tighten their belts, just as businesses and households do on a consistent basis.
Yes, I am saying to basically suck it up. I am in the same boat and have had to do the same thing. Be glad you have a job that provides 12 weeks of paid vacation, great benefits and a pension. You are ahead of 80% of the work force out there.
me says
You were doing ok until the 12 weeks of paid vacation time. For the umpteenth time, teachers are not paid for their summers off!!
Thomas Paine says
More money does not necessarily equate to better education, but less money will certainly lead to teachers doing less. And falling behind other counties? Seriously? Haford County is one of the best performing counties in the state, which is #1 in the country. And the majority of the 80% of those out there that you say I am doing better than do not have the education or experience that I do, or have the impact on the future of this county like I do. So yes, I should be compensated well and better than most.
If you want us to suck it up, great. Just be prepared for this county to decline and for teaches to tell you to suck it up as well.
And last I checked, our summer vacation, that we do not get paid for, lasts 8-9 weeks, not 12. If you want us to not have that long, pay us for the extra time you expect us to pick up.
dmichaels76 says
Actually, in the U.S. students are NOT falling behind other countries when you take poverty into account. When U.S. students who attend schools with less than 10% poverty are compared to their foreign counterparts, they outscore eveyone except China; and in China, the students are “filtered” out of the education system throughout their childhood (only 70% even finish 4th grade), so they are only educating their brightest.
The same is true when you compare 20% poverty through 40% poverty. After that is where we start “falling behind” other countries. So essentially, the U.S. gets “punished” in these figures simply because they try to educate EVERYONE and try to keep kids living in poverty in school even though they end up pulling down our scores.(source: PISA tests)
Perhaps you should look a little further into these issues and not just believe all the “sound bites” you hear are not meant to inform but to encourage people to buy media: nothing sells like bad news!
dmichaels76 says
Let’s compare teaching with jobs that have a similar daily and weekly time committment:
365 days in the year, 104 of them are weekend days. That leaves 261 work days. Let’s add in the typical non-work holidays (Christmas, New Years, Memorial Day, Independence Day, Labor Day, MLK Day, President’s Day) and knock off another 7 days. That leaves 254 days.
Most people who work in a comparable field also get some paid time off. Nationally, the average amount of paid vacation is 14 days, which brings us down to 240, and the average amount of personal/sick days is 12, which brings us down to 228 days.
By comparison, teachers are contracted to work 190 days per year. So teaches work about 38 days less than their private sector counterparts.
What’s really funny when people say “teachers don’t work summers!” is that they assume that means we have all three months off, or 90 days, which is an exaggeration of fact. Also, they forget that during summer, out of every seven days there are two weekend days when they are also off, just like the rest of the year. And, they conveniently forget about their own paid time off.
You can make the argument that “well, not everyone gets paid time off”. True, but some people I know get three or four weeks paid vacation. And of course, I know a lot of teachers who work on weekends sponsoring school events, school club events, sporting and music events, etc. So we can all throw in these “fringe” factoids to support either side of the argument.
But one thing can’t be argued: teachers have 38 more days off than the average American worker. It’s a nice perk, 38 days does not equal “all summer” or “12 weeks more than every else” or “three months off”.
dmichaels76 says
Oh, and by the way….I would gladly come in and work those 38 days that everyone else works, provided that I was paid for them just as everyone else is.
dmichaels76 says
Oh…one other thing…I’d be glad to forfeit my pension in exchange for the cash balance that I’ve been mandated by law to contribute to the pension system over the last 20 years. And the new legislation (just this past week) is mandating an increase in the employee (teacher) contribution to 7% of salary. This 2% increase is not going into the teacher pension fund but is going into the General Fund where the pols can do whatever they want with it.
So yes, I would be GLAD to see them just do away with the pension and let me keep my money!
Taxpayer says
“This 2% increase is not going into the teacher pension fund but is going into the General Fund where the pols can do whatever they want with it.
So yes, I would be GLAD to see them just do away with the pension and let me keep my money!”
Talk to your union and have them fight this for you. I do not disagree and am in the same boat. It is an extra tax that is required.
As for the “unpaid summer”, your salary is for full-time and is considered a yearly salary. Just because you are paid out over 10 months instead of 12 does not mean you have “unpaid time”. You work 190 days out of 260 (52 x 5) which means you have 70 days off. That is 14 weeks. Most people do not have 14 weeks, most people do not have all the federal holidays off.
Even using your numbers and the 38 extra days off – that is 7.6 weeks more than private sector (using your numbers which I consider inflated as most do not have 26 days of paid leave and paid sick time available to them). That is quite a benefit.
dmichaels76 says
If you think my numbers are exaggerated, look it up. I used national averages. Please see one of my previous posts where I encouraged you to research your facts.
The numbers you used for comparison assumes that every other person NEVER has a day off and works every week day in a calendar year. I don’t know a single person to whom this would apply.
Yes, 38 days would be about seven and a half weeks. Congratulations,you just refuted your own original claim that teachers have 12 weeks of paid vacation. See what facts can do for you? They can help you come up with accurate answers.
Now as far as “how” teachers are paid…are we paid for 10 months or 12 months? It really doesn’t matter. We are paid for working 190 days. Weather that is over 10 months, 12 months, 6.6 months, or given to us in one lump sum, it’s still the same money for the same days.
And getting back to the original argument of this thread…the fact that we are paid for X number of days does not entitle the public to an additional unlimited amount of time and work from the teachers. A teacher who fulfills their contract has done their job and are under no obligation to work additional hours. The fact that people assume that we should is not a character flaw on the part of the teachers, but on the part of the people who DEMAND that someone give them something for free and if they dare not, are subject to name calling and derision.
Let’s assume that the teachers should not expect any pay raises of any kind this coming year. Fine. Times are tough and we tighten our belts. But why should anyone expect the teachers to EVER work additional hours for free???
k says
I volunteered almost daily in the schools my children went to and now they are gainfully employed, one as a teacher. My question to teachers is what is the teachers union doing to help you in the actual classroom? What are they doing to help improve the quality of teaching students? Is the teacher union only there to advocate for the teacher? Are they there for the students too? I understand that teacher union dues are costly…Maybe those that are struggling and are in the union should cancel their union membership until things get better so you can pay those essentials in your life. My husband and I both lost our jobs. Many people are struggling to make ends meat! I would be happy to have a job. Emily, I’m glad you were not my children’s teacher. You sound bitter and angry and maybe another profession may suit you better. You are truly not the only one hurting in this economy. And, it is not easy finding a job when you are out of work.
Cdev says
K a few things.
One reason caneling union membership is a bad idea is the insurance against torts. in MD the most you can collect from a teacher etc in performance of their duties is 1 million. NEA provides insurance for that amount. Also they pay for the lawyer.
emily wiget says
AN APPEAL TO ALL HCPS TEACHERS!!!
Harford County Public School Teachers — WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
It has been 3 years since your last COLA. Three years since your last pay raise. And three years since your last step increase. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? For the last three years, inflation has risen; food prices have gone up, gas prices have gone up, your taxes have gone up but not your paychecks. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? Your medical benefits were attacked last year and this year, thanks to the politicians in Annapolis, your pension has been assailed with a two percent contribution increase on your part; an increase that will not go towards bolstering your pension but rather to a general fund that has nothing to do with your pension (where your money can be spent any way the politicians see fit). And speaking of the politicians, their pensions (which were better than teacher pensions to begin with) were not under review and did not increase one cent. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR?
You have written letters, signed petitions, made phone calls, attended rallies and the results have been what? Did they leave your pensions alone? Did you get your well deserved COLA or pay raise? Have they given you the step increases that you richly deserve? The politicians in Annapolis, County Executive David Craig and the Harford County Council say that times are tough and money is tight. If that is the case then why haven’t the politicians in Annapolis or the County Executive or the County Council had to make a sacrifice? Their salaries are high and their pensions are secure. If that truly is the case then why is it that Superintendent Tomback has been guaranteed a pay raise of $10,000/year for the first four years of his contract? If that truly is the case then where did the money come from for Superintendent Tomback to hire new administrators in his office at a starting salary of six figures each?
The time for talk, negotiations, and lobbying is over. You have been denied the right to strike but you still have one weapon at your disposal that has not been tried – WORK TO RULE. All across the country, teachers are under assault. The most common gripes against us are that salaries are too high (yeah right!), benefits packages to generous (oh please!) and teachers get the entire summer off (it will be about six weeks this summer for HCPS teachers – without pay!). And the assumption that we go to work each day and leave when the day ends is laughable. Take back those services that are taken for granted. Don’t offer after school help. Don’t sponsor clubs. Do not coach. Do not take work home with you at night. Stand up for yourselves and your rights by doing your jobs and leaving at the end of the work day. WORK TO RULE!
The most common objection by teachers will of course be that everything they do is for the kids. It is all for the kids. Noble sentiment. However, keep in mind that the parents of those kids are the ones who voted these politicians into office who have been threatening your livelihoods and futures. When it comes time to send your kids to college and you can’t afford it, will the college allow YOUR kids to go anyway because “it’s for the kids”? Why does BGE charge the school system for the power schools use or food services charge for the food schools provide to its’ students? After all, “it’s for the kids”!
The next common objection by teachers will be that they have to coach because they need the money. Understandable, but keep in mind that if you had received the COLAs, pay raises and step increases that have been denied to you, you probably wouldn’t need extra money. And, if you really needed extra money, there are plenty of part time jobs available outside the school system that pay comparably or more and require less time on your part. Teachers also coach because they love coaching. That’s great but do you love being denied pay raises, COLAs and step increases? With the forced increase in pension contributions, you are actually getting a 2% pay cut next school year. You can’t have it both ways so make a choice!
Finally, there is the mentality that we should be lucky we have jobs. We are definitely lucky we have jobs. However, the school system is lucky that they have us for employees – dedicated teachers whose hard work and efforts have made Maryland schools the number one school system in the nation. In fact, we are so dedicated that we literally pay for our own advanced degrees and continuing education classes in order to maintain our status as certified teachers (a requirement forced on us by the state with little compensation for costs incurred.) Are other state workers forced to take coursework at their own expense? We have done our part. Now when is the school system going to do theirs?
Teaching is the only “profession” where part of the job expectation is that you work for free. This is utter nonsense. The willingness of teachers to work for cheap or free has only contributed to the idea that teachers SHOULD work for cheap or free, and it has contributed to the devaluation of teaching as a profession. No one thinks being a college professor is not a serious profession or that professors should work for cheap or free because they DON’T and they WON’T!
This entire situation comes down to one thing; the school system is trying to get the best possible deal they can to appease parents and educate children while paying the least amount of money to their employees that they can get away with. In other words, the school system wants the best bang for their buck. You can’t blame them for trying but realize that they are doing this on the backs of those employees who have made them the successful school system they are – mainly you.
Stand up for yourselves now and show all of these politicians that you are tired of being picked on. Take a stand and stop lying down like sheep. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? And finally, if you are not willing to stand up, then you deserve everything you have gotten and will continue to get – NOTHING!
Prospective says
Hmmm… Maybe I can go and teach in Cecil County… hold on they are laying off school employees. Okay, I can go and teach in Baltimore County… wait.. they are cutting positions also. Hmmm… how about Anne Arundel, or P.G., Frederick, or Carroll.. whoops they too are cutting positions and not giving any pay increases. Why go there anyway, I might make a little more in salary but I’ll have to pay a lot more for health insurance even with the recent changes.
Well I’ll show them, I’ll go and teach in Wisconsin, or Michigan, or California or maybe even Florida and get treated so much better.
Maybe,just maybe, this really isn’t about little old Harford County.Maybe the grass really isn’t greener …
i agree somewhat says
look i help to maintain the buildings within a school system, teachers are not the only ones who sacrafice, i work multiple shifts, work weekends on call on holidays, sometimes i get called at 3am because of vandilism, or emergency situations where i walk into a building unarmed facing who knows what that is inside of the building,it may be armed robbers etc, I have to buy hand tools to use to make the buildings stay in presentable condition, i have to hold and maintain certain licenses to keep my job this requires many classes, seminars, and all the expenses that teachers pay, im insured in my trade, meaning i pay for the insurance out of pocket, and i work 12 months a year, i do work 2 jobs and take on side jobs because i have to, i have over 14 years of education in my trade, and noone ever thinks of the facillities man who makes under 40,000 a year
Taxpayer says
Great points in that it is not only teachers that should be valued in the system. There are plenty of hard-working people in the background who are overlooked and disrespected by the very teachers who demand respect.
dmichaels76 says
Where did you get the idea that teachers disrespect the administrative support and custodial staff that work in their schools? I haven’t seen one comment here that has indicated any such thing. And speaking as a teacher, if they said to me “we’re holding back on your pay increase but we’re going to give the custodians theirs” I would not begrudge these people one bit and I don’t know any teacher who would.
If you are going to jump to radical conclusions please at least have some facts to back them up. This seems to be a trend with you; you make grandiose statements but never have an ounce of evidence to support your opinions.
dmichaels76 says
By the way…I’m not saying that there are NO teachers anywhere who don’t respect the support staff or that wouldn’t take issue if support staff got a raise and they didn’t. I’m just saying that I personally don’t know of any. And since I know a lot of teachers I would say that this is not an attitude that merits being projected on “teachers” as a whole as your statement “overlooked and disrespected by the very teachers who demand respect” indicates.
I Left says
I agree with you completely. What the county has been doing to teachers is disrespectful. What it does to the folks who run the building maintenance is criminal. The maintenance staff in my old school were some of the nicest people to boot.
emily wiget says
To Randy Cerveny,
if you are following these postings you have seen everything that has been written up to this point and you have seen the passion that the teachers in Harford County have shown. My previous posting minutes ago was to the teachers of HCPS. This posting is for you.
Everyone is looking to you for leadership. Now is the time to lead! Everyone is looking to you for action. Now is the time to act! You have a tremendous opportunity here. Please do not squander it. Not only do you have a chance to confront the politicians who have put teachers in this mess but you also have a great opportunity to recruit new members to the HCEA and make the association even stronger and louder.
I am well aware that membership for the HCEA hovers around 50%. (If this figure is inaccurate, my apologies – feel free to provide me with the correct figure.) I also feel that if you act decisively at this moment and show the teachers (HCEA members and non-members) that you will not accept the current situation and you are willing to fight for what is right and fair, more teachers would be willing to join you in that fight and consequently, join HCEA.
The teachers need a unifying voice plus strong, decisive leadership. My self, Dmichaels76, Thomas Paine, and the countless other contributors to this website have shown you that there is passion and spirit, alive and well within HCPS. Now it is your turn. Your silence speaks volumes. Join us on this blog. Tell us you are going to lead. Enact the steps necessary to get the attention of the politicians in this county who are more concerned with protecting their AAA bond rating than with compensating teachers for their hard work. Call a work to rule!!!
We teachers are tired of the good cop/bad cop routine of County Executive Craig and Superintendent Tomback! Last year Mr. Craig wanted to give teachers a raise and Mr. Tomback said no. This year, Mr. Tomback proposed an incentive package he knew Mr. Craig would reject in order to make himself look like he cares about teachers. ENOUGH! Teachers are not pawns and deserve better than to be treated as such in political games concocted by the superintendent and the county executive!
Prove to us you care Randy! Show us you hear our voices! Lead and we will follow! The ball is in your court. It is time to take the shot or pass it off. The clock is winding down! What are you going to do?
dalat1968 says
Right on. Bet Craig”0″ (that is a zero, not an o) is postering for MD’s top seat in 2012. Put him to pasture along with the others. They have been feeding at the public’s expense too long.
afscme on board says
let afscme bring in the pickets
Porter says
@EMILY WIGET Your situation sounds dire have you thought about the ultimate act of defiance? Yes there is one thing above all others that you could do…QUIT and really show those radical taxpayers that you are not going take it anymore. Tell HCPS to shove that horrible teaching job.
I Left says
Never thought I’d say this, but I agree with Porter. HCPS never has the money to honor its teacher contracts because they waste SO much money elsewhere (excessive administration/middle management, turf fields, packaged curricula, etc). They aren’t going to stop doing that, which means they will never have the money to honor the contract.
That leaves you with two options–
1- Stay in Harford County and lobby, likely in vain, for the powers that be to remove the waste from the annual budget.
or
2- Leave Harford County for a school system that is run efficiently and honors its contracts. I realize that some teachers have established families which makes this difficult, but for the younger teachers, it’s very easy to do. I did it two years ago. I now teach in Western New York state. The pay is comparable, the cost of living is about 70% of what it is in Harford County, and they honor the contracts (with a smaller tax base to boot–it’s amazing how easy it is to honor contracts when you aren’t wasting a ton of money on items/positions extraneous to education).
If enough teachers leave the county, and the county has enough trouble recruiting quality new teachers (after 3 years, you know that the graduating education majors are aware that the HCPS salary schedule is a worthless recruitment tool) maybe the folks with the power to do so will finally address the fiscal problems in HCPS (which, for the record, do not require more taxation).
dmichaels76 says
I agree with Porter too, Emily. When your employer violates their contractual agreement by not paying you what they agreed to while at the same time continuing to insist that you volunteer to do more work that is NOT in the contract, don’t stand up for yourself…QUIT!
Qualified says
I’m reading all of these posts, with people crying about a 2% cut. My wife and I have had a 40% cut. This means that we will be paying about $2,700 LESS in local income tax for 2010. I have been underemployed for the last two years, there appears to be nothing for someone with a BS & MS & 32 years steady employment history. Perhaps I should claim that I’m entitled to a good job with the education I have, but that won’t wash. I keep looking and sending out resumes.
Oh, if there are 5,000 families in the same position, paying $2,700 less in taxes, thats $13,500,000 not avaliable for anything. Since the school budget needs to be cut by $23,400,000, there are about 9,000 in the same boat.
County Exec Craig has already told all Departments to give back 3%. Why did the HCPS try to run through a 6% budget increase over last year. Somebody is wishing too hard.
No one put a gun to your head to make you be a teacher, it is what you chose, if you have expensive tastes you made a bad choice. The current economic situation is impacting EVERYONE, we all have to share in the pain.
Its your choice, cuts or terminiations. Cuts are far less painful!
Thomas Paine says
$2700 LESS in local income tax? Are you serious? That means you and your wife were making $225000 and are now making $135000.
y = old salary
x = old taxes
z = new salary
.03 = harford county local income tax rate
y X .03 = x
y X .6 = z
z X .03 = x – 2700
(y X .6) X .03 = (y X .03) – 2700
.018y = .03y – 2700
-.012y = -2700
y = $225000
x = $135000
My parents called and said they want their money back from the overpaid math teachers that I spent 16 years of my life with.
Oh my jebus! You must be hurting. My teacher salary dwarfs your puny $135000. I don’t know how you are making it. I hope you make it through. I really do. Good luck. And I really hope this county doesn’t raise taxes on you. That would really put you under.
NOW GIVE ME MY $1500 STEP INCREASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thomas Paine says
Sorry
y = $225000
z (not x) = $135000
And by the way, that is your Federally Adjusted Gross Income, after all of you deductions, which are probably pretty ridiculous.
P.S. How about giving me my COLA and last two salary steps? Or how about you send your kids to private school where they will get the education you can obviously pay for.
Thomas Paine says
No one put a gun to your head to choose a profession that led to you having a 40% cut. If you have expensive tastes, you made a bad choice. Unfortunately you still have to pay the same prices for your food, gas, electricity, etc. And you should also pay the same price for your children’s education…or is that something that you don’t value as much as your food, gas, and electricity? Why is it that teachers, along with other county workers, and the services they provide are somehow negotiable bargaining chips? In the end, you will get what you pay for. Either pay teachers for the services they provide or they will cut their services.
Porter says
Teachers are not entitled to ride out the recession and they certainly can work to rule. Most of us respect teachers, but if you want to reduce that respect you go ahead and work to rule.
Thomas Paine says
If you respected teachers, you would compensate them at the level that you valued them. Which either means you value teachers little or you just don’t want to compensate them. It is clear though, that you don’t NEED to compensate them. Well, we’ll see what services you actually NEED from teachers when they are no longer provided due to lack of compensation.
Miles Kress says
Mr. Paine, you can’t see the forest for the trees. The point I was making is that people have lost their jobs and there is no income tax to collect. Homes are decreasing in value and with lower assessments come lower Real Estate Taxes. Get out of your ivory academic tower with the liberal toads who think “its government money”.
I know many teachers who work very hard, both in the classroom and on their own time. There are folks in other professions who also work on their own time with no pay.
The School Board prepared a budget with a 6% increase, there is no funding for that. The budget will still increase by 1%. This in NOT a cut, there will be more for FY2012 than there was for FY2011, not as much as the Board wanted.
As far as our gross earnings, we work hard for it. Do I detect some envy there? Perhaps Mr. Paine will be luck and survive any layoffs should they come.
Thomas Paine says
And you missed my point. This county can afford all of its department’s budgets along with increases where necessary, even though its citizens are making less and property values have decreased. Obviously, the only way to do that is to raise taxes, which, if its citizens valued the services that they received, they would agree to. But instead, they don’t, which is understandable. Who wants to pay more taxes? However, what are the consequences of not valuing public employees?
Regardless of whether you agree with raising taxes or not, the fact is public employess have the right to work to rule. And that is hopefully what you will get if you and the citizens of Harford County continue to expect its employees to do the same work for less. I say hopefully because so many teachers, some of whom have posted here, value themselves even less than the citizens whom are unwilling to pay the same amount (not percentage) for the services they have been receiving for years.
And no, I feel no envy for your salary. If I did, I certainly would not have become a teacher. What I feel is a sense of fear and anger because people like you are saying, “Hey, I just got punched in the face by this horrible economy, come here, let me punch you in the face. And oh yeah, while you’re down on the ground, give me your wallet. And oh yeah, get up and go teach my kids something while you’re making sure they are safe and sound and when your done, help them after school, and when your done that, coach them.” How about saying, “Hey, I’m down, and I know you have been too, but god damn it, if it weren’t for you my kids or my neighbors kids would be doing who knows what. Instead they’re actually learning something. Thanks for that and everything else you do. I can afford to keep paying you a competitive salary so kids continue to get the best education they can and so teachers like you don’t stop doing the other things they do that help them.”
dmichaels76 says
So let me get this straight….the only way that a teacher should get respect is if they do work for free above and beyond what is stated in their legal contract? That’s exactly what “work-to-rule” is. It is doing the job you have contractually agreed to do for the amount you agreed to do it for. It is what everyone else does in every other profession that involves a contractual agreement between labor and management.
I’ve asked before and I’ll ask again: where did you get the idea that you were entitled to free or cheap services from teachers? And if a teacher, for whatever reason, decides they are not able to volunteer to run school clubs, events, sports, etc, what right do you have to demean and belittle them?
Did you ever stop to think that perhaps they too have to find additional employment to make ends meet, or maybe they want to spend more time with their own children, or maybe they have an aging parent they need to care for?
If there is anyone here that is showing their greed and their refusal to “suck it up” or “tighten their belts”, it is the people who are of the mindset that unless a teacher dedicates his/her personal time to other people’s children without compensation, then he/she is a lousy teacher with a rotten attitude.
Taxpayer says
I have no problem with work to rule. Put in a good day, work hard, effectively and efficiently, go home and have a great evening.
If you have a desire to do more, do it. No one is requiring you to do the other projects.
Thomas Paine says
Thank you taxpayer, that is all we are asking. Unfortunately most taxpayers do not feel like you do, and many of them are the teachers that continue to do more for less. Should we thank them, yes. But when it becomes expected and impedes their ability to be compensated competitively, those teachers have no one to blame but themselves. Unfortunately, that affects the other teachers who demand to be treated like valued professionals, not babysitters.
Joe Strummer says
This is a public service announcement
With guitar for the HCPS teachers…
Know your rights all three of them
Number 1
You have the right not to be killed
Murder is a CRIME!
Unless it was done by a
Policeman or aristocrat
Know your rights
And Number 2
You have the right to food money
Providing of course you
Don’t mind a little
Investigation, humiliation
And if you cross your fingers
Rehabilitation
Know your rights
These are your rights
Know these rights
Number 3
You have the right to free
Speech as long as you’re not
Dumb enough to actually try it.
Know your rights
These are your rights
All three of ’em
It has been suggested
In some quarters that this is not enough!
Well…………………………
Get off the streets
Get off the streets
Run
You don’t have a home to go to
Finally then I will read you your rights
You have the right to remain silent
You are warned that anything you say
Can and will be taken down
And used as evidence against you
chuck d says
As the rhythm designed to bounce
What counts is that the rhymes
Designed to fill your mind
Now that you’ve realized the prides arrived
We got to pump the stuff to make us tough
from the heart
It’s a start, a work of art
To revolutionize make a change nothin’s strange
People, people we are the same
No we’re not the same
Cause we don’t know the game
What we need is awareness, we can’t get careless
You say what is this?
My beloved lets get down to business
Mental self defensive fitness
(Yo) bum rush the show
You gotta go for what you know
Make everybody see, in order to fight the powers that be
Lemme hear you say…
Fight the Power
Bill says
Well I am a state employee myself. Paying more for retirement, less retirement for new employees, furlough days, increased health care costs, no raises and now also forced union dues are all part of my job. In addition, county teachers get their pension mostly, or is it all, from the state, which increases the demand on my retirement system. This is the only state in the union that doesnt have the counties paying teacher retirement. The Thornton Bill says that the education budget cannot decrease in Md from one year to the next. I believe that is changing this year? And we shouldnt do all of this to the teachers because of the poor starving children that will be left freezing in the cold. So teachers feel that they have been slapped in the face? Use some ice. It is better to get debt down that to have all the kids home schooled, even though kids in my church who have been home schooled have done better in most cases than those in public schools.
commenter58 says
As a public employee, I have trouble favoring one group over another. Teachers had to know going in that the school board is in the best position–they can agree to whatever they want, and then when the County Executive says “no”, they can say “we tried” and the anger is directed at the County and not the school board.
I agree that teachers are a wonderful group and deserve a raise, but I also think the men and women who make sure that our roads are taken care of during the snow season, the workers who make sure that our water supply is safe to drink and the employees who answer the 911 calls deserve them, too. If one group gets a raise, all should get a raise. When one group doesn’t, no one should. County employees have not gotten raises in three years and costs have gone up. I am not complaining because I am happy to have a job, but we are all doing more with less. I have picked up another person’s job in addition to still doing my own because we cannot fill the position. I get no extra for that work, but that’s okay–it’s best for the citizens of this County.
And, for anyone who thinks that County employees only do the minimum, I can tell you from personal knowledge that we have an amazing group of people serving our citizens every single day.
So, teachers, I applaud your work and dedication, and I am sure you applaud my work and dedication, too. Since I only have 3 degrees (2 post-graduate), maybe I still need an education explaining how the teachers deserve it more than anyone else who serve the citizens of Harford County?
oldteach says
When times are good no one wants their taxes raised when times are bad no one wants their taxes raised. Everyone cries for govt to be more efficient. Private corps can raise prices whenever they feel. Bigtime companies find a way not to pay taxes.
So tell me when is one who works for the public sector suppossed to expect a pay increase? In my 20+ years of teaching in harford county I have seen car and housing costs go up. At the height of the boom guess what my salary scale didn’t change. Even in the best years public employees are given the minimum. Public employees don’t ask for 10% raises they ask for their employers to stick to the salary scale.
Look I love my job as a teacher and coach. I probably will never work to the rule, because I really like what I do. I don’t like the way public employees have been portrayed lately, and I don’t like the direction our pay has gone lately.
My greatest fear is that teaching will soon have an image that is at an all-time low. How do you expect hcps to attract good candidates?
Porter says
@OLDTEACH Well there are only private corporations that are for profit, not-for-profit or non-profit.
Private corporations can raise their prices and consumers can choose to buy or not to buy. Citizens have no choice in taxes, licenses or fees, we just pay the money irrespective of our financial reality. Private sector folks do not enjoy the insulation of public employment. You public sector employees need to share the pain of the great recession.
Public sector employees have become an elite and entitled class and I say shame on you.
Thomas Paine says
You’re wrong about having no choice in taxes. You elect politicians who are of the same mindset as you, which includes raising or not raising taxes and how much they value public employees. If you vote for candidates that will not raise taxes, taxes are less likely to be raised. If you vote for candidates that will raise taxes, taxes are rasied. Your choice is who you vote for and by continuing to vote for politicians that are more concerned about keeping money in their pockets than paying for the services the citizens receive, you get what we currently have, undervalued public employees whom are not competitively paid. I understand why you are selfish. However, eventually you are going to get the services that you pay for.
And public sector workers have been sharing the pain for a hell of a lot longer than you ever will. You just want to make sure that when you hurt, we hurt. But when you’re doing great, where are you raising your hand saying, “hey, here’s some extra cash, thanks for the work you do.” And if your response is, it was your choice to be a teacher, well my response is, you’re right, and with that comes little reward, but little risk. Also, it was your choice to choose a career that had the risk of losing 50% of your salary, but you also had the reward of gaining 200% of your salary. Don’t bring us down further than we are just because you’re in pain.
Mostly what public employees want is to follow the salary scale. That has not happened in three years. Prior to that, that was all we got, except for a year or two of small increases. That does not sound like entitlement to me. If anything, you are the one that feels entitled to the services that are provided by public employees, for less money. Shame on you.
And commenter58, in many of these posts, teachers have been advocating for themselves. However, that does not mean that those teachers somehow think they deserve a pay increase any more than other public workers. If the question was asked, I think you would find that most, if not all, teachers feel that all public employees are valuable (although some have skillsets that are less common and therefore deserve more compensation with different levels of priority…whether that means teachers deserve more, sooner than a police officer is debatable and I do not have evidence to make an informed opinion) and the citizens of the county have undervalued them for too long. All should be given the salary adjustments they deserve.
oldteach says
We have been and will continue to share the pain. As far as being elite and entitled I don’t know one person in the public sector, outside of politicans who feel that way.
When we all became adults we made career decisions. Some choose careers with great income potential, some went with better benefits. Why after all of these years, have the public sector become elite? I have taught for over 20 years, and my benefits and pay scale have basically been the same. There weren’t radical changes.
I don’t know how many times I had former students/athletes come back to me after college, and in their first year of private sector work they made more money than me. I was fine with it.
Look public sector employees aren’t getting a raise this year, and my fear is once we show we will work without increases, people will say hey your doing just fine, so maybe we will keep you there even longer.
Nice says
Circuit Court of Maryland
Go Back
Case Information
Court System: Circuit Court for Harford County – Civil System
Case Number: 12C11000819
Title: Harford Bank vs Hanley Investments L L C, et al
Case Type: Confessed JudgmentFiling Date:03/25/2011
Case Status: Closed/Inactive
Case Disposition: Confessed/Consent JudgmntDisposition Date:03/25/2011
——————————————————————————–
Plaintiff/Petitioner Information
(Each Plaintiff/Petitioner is displayed below) Party Type: PlaintiffParty No.:1
Business or Organization Name: Harford Bank
Address: 8 West Bel Air Avenue
City: AberdeenState:MDZip Code:21001
Attorney(s) for the Plaintiff/Petitioner
Name: Selba, Esq, Joseph M
Practice Name: Bishop Daneman & Simpson LLC
Address: 1400 South Charles Street
City: BaltimoreState:MDZip Code:21230
Name: Simpson, Esq, Lori
Practice Name: Bishop, Daneman & Simpson LLC
Address: 1400 South Charles St
City: BaltimoreState:MDZip Code:21230
——————————————————————————–
Defendant/Respondent Information
(Each Defendant/Respondent is displayed below) Party Type: DefendantParty No.:2
Name: Hanley, Terence O
Address: 314 E. Broadway
City: Bel AirState:MDZip Code:21014
Aliases Defendant/Respondent
Name: Hanley, Terrence O
Attorney(s) for the Defendant/Respondent
Name: Daneman, Esq, David
Practice Name: Bishop, Daneman, & Simpson, LLC
Address: 1400 S. Charles Street
City: BaltimoreState:MDZip Code:21230
——————————————————————————–
Party Type: DefendantParty No.:1
Business or Organization Name: Hanley Investments L L C
Address: 314 E. Broadway
City: Bel AirState:MDZip Code:21014
Address: 200 South Main Street
City: Bel AirState:MDZip Code:21014
Attorney(s) for the Defendant/Respondent
Name: Daneman, Esq, David
Practice Name: Bishop, Daneman, & Simpson, LLC
Address: 1400 S. Charles Street
City: BaltimoreState:MDZip Code:21230
——————————————————————————–
Party Type: DefendantParty No.:3
Name: Hanley, Debra T
Address: 314 E. Broadway
City: Bel AirState:MDZip Code:21014
Attorney(s) for the Defendant/Respondent
Name: Daneman, Esq, David
Practice Name: Bishop, Daneman, & Simpson, LLC
Address: 1400 S. Charles Street
City: BaltimoreState:MDZip Code:21230
——————————————————————————–
Judgment Information
(Each Judgment is displayed separately.) Judgment Date: 03/25/2011Index Date:03/25/2011Status Date:03/25/2011
Status EnteredAmount:$$570,000.00
For: Harford Bank
Against: Hanley, Terrence O
Judgment Comments: jointly and severally, plus pre-judgment interest in the amount of $12,743.76 (accruing at a per diem rate of $85.89), plus late fees in the amount of $997.68; and attorney’s fees in the amount of $85,500.00 (15% of the principal balance due), for a grand total of $669,241.44, plus costs and post-judgment interest at the legal rate.
——————————————————————————–
Judgment Date: 03/25/2011Index Date:03/25/2011Status Date:03/25/2011
Status EnteredAmount:$$570,000.00
For: Harford Bank
Against: Hanley, Debra T
Judgment Comments: jointly and severally, plus pre-judgment interest in the amount of $12,743.76 (accruing at a per diem rate of $85.89), plus late fees in the amount of $997.68; and attorney’s fees in the amount of $85,500.00 (15% of the principal balance due), for a grand total of $669,241.44, plus costs and post-judgment interest at the legal rate.
——————————————————————————–
Judgment Date: 03/25/2011Index Date:03/25/2011Status Date:03/25/2011
Status EnteredAmount:$$570,000.00
For: Harford Bank
Against: Hanley Investments L L C
Judgment Comments: jointly and severally, plus pre-judgment interest in the amount of $12,743.76 (accruing at a per diem rate of $85.89), plus late fees in the amount of $997.68; and attorney’s fees in the amount of $85,500.00 (15% of the principal balance due), for a grand total of $669,241.44, plus costs and post-judgment interest at the legal rate.
——————————————————————————–
Judgment Date: 03/25/2011Index Date:03/25/2011Status Date:03/25/2011
Status EnteredAmount:$$570,000.00
For: Harford Bank
Against: Hanley, Terence O
Judgment Comments: jointly and severally, plus pre-judgment interest in the amount of $12,743.76 (accruing at a per diem rate of $85.89), plus late fees in the amount of $997.68; and attorney’s fees in the amount of $85,500.00 (15% of the principal balance due), for a grand total of $669,241.44, plus costs and post-judgment interest at the legal rate.
——————————————————————————–
——————————————————————————–
Document Tracking
(Each Document listed. Documents are listed in Document No./Sequence No. order) Doc No./Seq No.: 1/0
File Date: 03/25/2011Close Date:03/25/2011Decision:
Party Type: PlaintiffParty No.:1
Document Name: Complaint & Affidavit Confessed Judgment, Exhibits and Line Requesting Entry by
Confession
——————————————————————————–
Doc No./Seq No.: 2/0
File Date: 03/25/2011Close Date:03/25/2011Decision:
Document Name: Judgment Indexed on 03/25/11
——————————————————————————–
Doc No./Seq No.: 3/0
File Date: 03/25/2011Close Date:03/25/2011Decision:
Document Name: Confessed Judgment Notice Sent
——————————————————————————–
This is an electronic case record. Full case information cannot be made available either because of legal restrictions on access to case records found in Maryland rules 16-1001 through 16-1011, or because of the practical difficulties inherent in reducing a case record into an electronic format.
here is the deal says
the deal is this stop crying about it do something, find another job somewhere else where you can only work 10 months out of the year, get snow days paid, holidays paid, winter break paid, go find it, not going to happen. Oh and with your masters degrees go out there and make 50 thousand plus working 10 months with day shift hours, and off weekends, its time to quit bitching, go work in the real world people. In some real world jobs you aere forced to work mandatory overtime 7 days a week, 12 hour shifts, holidays, swing shift, in the real world they can reduce your benefits, in the real world you may get 2 weeks of vacation a year you may have no sick time, people get a grip The schools are good to you. I understand you have a stressful job but have you ever thought about how stressful it is to be a jail guard, a nuclear plant operator, a store manager of a large retail chain, an airline pilot, a miner, a gas fitter, have you ever thought that theese people have to feed there families too. Oh but were teachers and there is noone else who can do what we do, people come on, there is thousands of people out there with masters degree without jobs im sure they would work for what your making, do you think your a premadonna think again, I have a masters in technology and aerospace, a bachelors in electronics, you think i may want to take your job since im looking for a job come on people quit thinking your irreplaceable
Watcher says
with all of those spelling errors and horrendous grammar, maybe you should have spent more time in school.
here is the deal says
spelling is not critical, as long as you know what someone is speaking about, English is not my native Language so please forgive me if i mis spell something, come to my country and speak or spell cantonese
Porter says
@HERE IS THE DEAL Brilliant response to the Watcher fool.
Watcher says
Quick, Porter, check his papers. He might be one of those illegals you and your cronies are always screaming about.
As for the supposed ‘Cantonese’ from Here Is The Deal, your criticisms of the teachers is absurd. The attack on teachers in this country is shameful. No one from the right would dare attack police officers, firefighters or their unions and teachers should be held in the same regard.
Porter says
@watcher You have such an ironic pseudonym since you are so obviously blind.
Watcher says
Ok, Porter. Whatever you say. Go carry my bags.
Porter says
@Watcher I’d carry your bags but you are likely too niggardly to tip me.
Just the Facts, Ma'am says
@ Here Is the Deal
Check your facts before you go on a rant and make yourself look like an idiot. Teachers are contracted to work 190 days a year. Teachers have ZERO paid holidays, ZERO paid snow days, and ZERO paid vacation days. Winter break, spring break, summer vacation, or any other days that schools are closed are NOT paid days. If schools close for snow, the school year is extended. If a teacher misses work and no leave has been approved, he/she is docked 1/190th of his/her salary. It appears that teachers get all this paid time off because their annual salary is divided by 22, and dispersed equally over 22 paychecks. Teachers do not receive any paychecks over the summer. HCPS eliminated the summer savings program several years ago. Teachers pay their bills over the summer by budgeting a portion of every paycheck to summer savings.
Porter says
@JUST THE FACTS, MA’AM Nice compensation, benefits and great schedule sounds like a pretty good gig to me.
Just the Facts, Ma'am says
@ Porter
I love it! If you’re interested, here’s the link to apply.
https://harford.schoolrecruiter.net/index.aspx
just wondering says
just wondering, so when you it snows and you dont work you get your pay deducted? when you have christmas off you get pay deducted? when your sick you get pay deducted? so if you get paid 190 days but you actully work 170 because of snow or what ever you got to pay the school system back?
just wondering says
any other job when it snows or your sick you dont get paid, im confused so if your out on extended sick leave you have no sick bank? or sick time?
decoydude says
JUST WONDERING? It is not hard to figure out why you picked that name. Come on – 190 day contractual is not that hard to understand. You have to work 190 and get paid for 190. I can follow that while I am doing stock trades and grilling up some steaks.
Cdev says
WHen it snows a teacher does not get paid for the snow day. WHile they still may get the same pay they have to work extra days at the end of the year and get no extra pay for it. So a teacher gets no pay for a snow day. Same for these breaks.
just wondering says
well it all comes out in the wash then dont it, sorta like comp time
Cdev says
Yes but they are not paid for the day it snowed they are being paid for the extra day in June they will work!
A says
When there are snow days beyond the built in limit the school year is extended. If the allotted snow days are not used the school year is shortened. Either way teachers are paid to work a certain number of days. They do not get paid leave on snow days. They are not on paid leave for all the holidays politicians put into the school schedule. I know some will say the school system makes the calendar, but all those days are the result of Federal, State, or local government desires. Teachers are paid on professional development days (which they are required to attend) when students are not in school. They are also paid for the few days they are in school before classes start in Aug. to get things ready and after classes end in June to wrap things up. Teachers are allowed (needing permission from the principal and depending on the date need permission from the central office) to take three personal days each school year to handle emergencies. Teachers do not get paid vacation days and taking vacation during the school year is not possible unless they do it during normally scheduled school breaks in Dec. or April/May. Teachers are given death leave but if they need days off beyond the allotted number their pay is deducted for extra time taken.
Cdev says
To also think of it my wife has been known to go to work on a snow day even though she is not being paid for it…..
just wondering says
so how can teachers afford to be sick? im so confused, if they are sick 15 days out of the year plus 8 snow days, plus 10 holidays then they dont get paid 33 days out of the year and need to make that up at the end of the year, I thought they had a sick bank? so the deal is they have to work 190 days reguardless, so if they are there 175 days they need to make up 15 days or loose it that seems the way im understanding it
Not From Here says
Just wondering–teachers do accrue sick days. I do not remember how many how per pay period it is.
Thomas Paine says
For whomever asked about teacher sick leave:
Teachers get 3 personal days/year. Which if not used can accumulate up to 5 personal days/year. Excess personal days get converted to sick leave. Notification of using personal days must be provided at least 3 days in advance and cannot be used before or after a holiday or inservice day.
Teacher are given 1.25 sick days per month (1 day per month for the first two years of service). These sick days are all provided at the beginning of the school year. Sick days accumulate indefinitely. Unused sick days are paid back to the employee at a rate of 25% of the daily rate up to 200 days of sick leave upon retirement if the employee has worked for a minimum of 10 years. Teachers can participate in a sick leave bank, which requires them to give up 1 sick day every year. This protects them from long term absence. When they return to service, they pay back their sick leave to the bank as they accumulate it.
I happen to have 139 sick days accumulated (after 12 years of service) and 3 personal days. I happen to agree with those that think that having this much sick leave is more than is necessary. However, I don’t know how this compares to other public employee systems. Also, if teachers are not permitted to accumulate sick leave, I know I would be more likely to use it every year, which would reduce my students’ ability to learn effectively.
dmichaels76 says
Since you are looking for a job, perhaps you should consider teaching. Then you too can enjoy all the perks that you claim that teachers enjoy.
Taxpayer extraordinaire says
Many of the teachers in this county work very diligently to educate our kids. Many don’t.
The money the Superintendent wants is over 23 million dollars more than last year. We have less students. We as a county have less prop.taxes and higher income taxes, yet it is not enough to generate an increase for the BOE of almost $24mil. The teachers and support staff need to address this w/ the BOE, and they, the teachers/staff, need to come up w/ areas that can be cut to allow them to get their promised raises. The budget is bloated from inside out, and top down, but the teachers and staff are able to identify the most effective places to cut waste.
Andrew says
Board of Education member Mr. Frisch was quoted in a different Dagger article as asking for community input on how to find cost savings for next year. There was little input and not much detail on the few suggestions that were offered on this blog. People will not get up set and complain about budget cuts until it is too late – after classroom instruction and their children suffer.
just wondering says
you can offer buy outs, you can offer early outs for hourly employees who are finished lets say an hour early and the job is complete offer them the chance to go home if you did this once per school per day thats 53 hours x 5 days a week 265 hours a year and lets say the average pay rate is 11 dollars an hour = 2915 if every hourly employee decided to do this once per month or 12 times a year lets say you have 1000 hourly employees x 12 times thats 12,000 hours x lets say 11 dollars an hour
just wondering says
I have a plan that can save over a million dollars a year, Ive presented it and the board has said oh we will look into it
HarCo Teacher says
Very few of the teachers that I currently, or have ever worked with complain about their work hours – neither those required, nor those beyond the contracted day – or their jobs. The teachers on this post who are defending themselves are not either.
We are tired of bearing the brunt of all of the attacks on government spending. We’re tired of being told that we don’t do enough to deserve our contractually guaranteed steps. If we started working to rule and stopped doing all of the other stuff, there would be no school plays, no music concerts, no High School Assessment remediation, no athletics, no intramural activities, no dances, no field trips, … the list could go on. Sure, we are paid for many of these things, but we are not required to do them, and we are not paid enough to make the paycheck the reason for doing it – I’ve coached for 13 years, I know what coaches are paid.
We are tired of being painted as greedy, selfish government employees living off the public’s dime. Everybody says that we need to share the pain of the recession. We have. The HCPS budget for 2009-2010 was exactly the same as it was for 2008-2009. Consequently, the salary scales were also the same. So, I did not receive any cuts to my salary. However, on my 2010 taxes our income (my wife is also a teacher) was nearly $3,000 LOWER than in 2009 due to changes to our health insurance. I still have a job, I still have health insurance – I’m not complaining about my salary, simply pointing out that teachers are also losing money. We know that the private sector is having to work more hours to get by. We know because we are being called on more and more to raise the kids whose parents work such long hours that there isn’t much time left over for parenting. We’re the ones working extra with minimal or no pay, or even real obligation to do so, to provide those activities. We do it because it needs to be done. However, if we don’t have to do it, and we aren’t reasonably compensated to do it, and we still get demonized by the general public and media, why should we continue to do it? That’s the point of calling for work-to-rule. I know I’ll be accused of being whiny, but if you shoveled snow out of your neighbor’s driveway because he had the flu, and he then he told the rest of the neighborhood that you were lazy and did a lousy job, would you do it again?
Yes, teachers do have job security and good health benefits. Yes, we chose our profession. In exchange for the job security and benefits, we chose to accept modest, but decent salaries with contracted step increases. We knew we weren’t going to get rich, but we also “knew” we would make a little bit more money (about $1500) every year as our families grew – at least for the first 15 years, anyway. We knew we would never get bonuses, commissions, stock options, company cars, expense accounts, etc. We knew that promotions (and the raises associated) weren’t in our future (becoming a principal or other administrator is not a promotion, it is a different job that you have to apply for and don’t have to have been a teacher to get). We chose our salaries. We chose them based on the contract we signed that contained step increases. We, just as anyone else, would love a raise; however all we really want is what was contractually promised to us – the steps. Steps are not raises. Raises are increases in the salary scales, such as cost of living adjustments. A C.O.L.A. would be nice, but we know we can’t have that right now.
To everyone who says that if teachers want their steps they need to find a way to cut the budget enough to fund the steps – bring it on. We’d love to have that much say in the way the school system runs. I guarantee that teachers could fund the salary steps without sacrificing any educational benefits to students.
Teachers’, deputies’, highway workers’, janitors’, anyone-who-works for the government’s contracts should be honored. Increases to the salary scales? Not now — there isn’t money for that.
Porter says
@HARCO TEACHER You want what you want with complete disregard for the economy and taxpayers.
Taxpayers’ incomes and property values have decreased so you will have to tighten your belt or get new employment. It’s all about an economic reality.
HarCo Teacher says
@ Porter
I didn’t realize that I was tax exempt! What a relief to not have my property value decline like yours because I teach! It’s such a relief to know that my salary is staying the same. Oh, wait a minute, there must be some mistake. I did pay taxes this year — and my income was $3000 less than last year. I must have no regard for myself then. Well crap, that’s a whole new set of problems.
By the way, because I know it’s coming – $3000 isn’t all that much, I know, but it is almost a year of preschool for my 4-year-old. I love my job and will continue to do it even if I don’t get my steps. Just quit telling me how I need to tighten my belt like everyone else – until my teaching certificate exempts me from taxes, or allows discounts at stores and utility companies. (And before there are dozens of stupid responses to this final SARCASTIC comment, of course I don’t think that teachers should be tax-exempt or offered unlimited discounts. I am simply trying to remind Porter that teachers ARE members of the same taxbase and and economy that he claims I have no regard for.)
Porter says
@HARCO TEACHER You refuse to accept that taxpayers cannot continue to pay and pay especially since many have lost jobs, are underemployed or had their salaries cut.
You have a a nice gig with good pay, great benefits, a pension, 403B and a schedule to die for and yet you complain while many people who have lost jobs are now losing their homes to foreclosure, but you want more and there is simply no more to give you.
HarCo Teacher says
@ Porter
I never said that I’m underpaid, or have bad benefits. I have a great job, I know that. However, all the things that you listed as why I have it so good are the very things you want to take away/reduce. I don’t want taxes raised. I simply want my contratual obligations to be a priority in the budget, and for HCPS and/or HarCo to trim their budgets enough to fund my contract. I’m going through the same bad economy as you and I’m watching my bosses blow money on programs, jobs, and a whole host of other things that are a waste of money to say the least. The whole time the people in charge of the money are wasting it, they’re telling us that they can’t afford to honor our contract, and people like you are telling me how greedy and selfish I am for being mad about it. That’s my only complaint.
While I’ve enjoyed this little foray into the Dagger, I’m afraid I have better things to do than sit at my computer all day. I know better than to think that there is anything I can say to change anyone’s mind, anymore than there anything you can say to change mine. I’ve said what I wanted to say, and have nothing further to add. I’m done with this before it degrades any further than it already has. Have a great spring evening!
Porter says
@HARCO TEACHER I don’t wish you or teachers generally ill, however you will need to adjust to the new reality of our economy. HCPS will have to spend less and HCEA/NEA will need to give up its stranglehold on education. HCEA/NEA is the enemy of teachers, parents, students and taxpayers.
Cdev says
It is worth noting the 403b is NOT paid for by the school system or the taxpayer. The 403b is entirely funded by the employee.
Porter says
@Cdev – You annoying prig not everyone has a 403B or 401k from their employer so it most certainly is a benefit that not everyone can enjoy.
just wondering says
where is all the slots money?
Not From Here says
Amen. They use the slots money for education, but the way I understand it, it replaces other money rather than being additional funding. that sure was a bait and switch.
just wondering says
that would be 132,000 just by allowing people to leave one hour early, just a thought i know its way more complex then that. 4 day school schedule 4 10 hour shifts keep the schools closed fri and save electric costs and transportaion costs, allow companies to advertise in the school, such as tutoring companies, sports companies for the ball fields, allow HCC to use classrooms for a fee, increase the revenue decrease the waste.
Thomas Paine says
I’m all for a 4 day work week. As you said, it saves a hell of a lot of money. However, what do the kids do while they are at home on Fridays and parents are at work?
just wondering says
well maybe offer the ymca at each school to help with tutoring and that is a source of revenue for the schools
Thomas Paine says
I didn’t know the YMCA was free? I thought this was about reducing costs. If taxpayers are too burdened and a way to save costs is go to a 4 day school week, but then they have to turn around and pay for childcare on Fridays (including transportation) when they are at work, how does that reduce the burden on the taxpayer? I find it hard to believe that the difference in cost would benefit the taxpayer, unless of course that taxpayer doesn’t have kids. Which could lead to consequences for the childless taxpayer when kids don’t go to school on Fridays because there is no school, and those kids break into the childless taxpayer’s house while they’re at work. It’s hard to get around the services schools provide.
The only way it works is if our entire culture shifts to a four day work week, which many communities and businesses obviously have.
Porter says
Teachers do not get to sit out of the economy.
Wages generally are depressed or declining, home values have decreased and may take decades to recover and teachers do not get a pass on the reality of this economic epoch.
We’ll understand if you decide to change professions for economic reasons, but taxpayers cannot afford the unsustainable year-after-year increases in the cost of education. And unfortunately teacher’s unions will not even consider that their unyielding stranglehold on work rules is one of the greatest problems with our educational system.
HCEA/NEA are about power and they are not about education.
HarCo Teacher says
@ Porter
Who says we’re sitting out of the economy? Last time I checked, we don’t have special teacher-only gas stations, grocery stores, or utility companies. Our property values aren’t based on our careers, they’re dropping just the same as yours. Our salaries have never been exhorbitant, and we certainly aren’t asking them to be. Sure, on paper they’re staying the same, but we are bringing home less every year, too due to increased health care costs and now, the increased pension contribution. All we want is to be brought up to where we are contractually obligated to be. We’re taxpayers also — we have just as much right to voice our opinions on how tax money is spent as anyone else.
just wondering says
quit, get another job
HarCo Teacher says
@ Just Wondering
Wow, I never thought of that. . .wait a minute, your comment isn’t even worth a response.
just wondering says
i agree with that, the bottom line is we have no more manufacturing jobs in this country, the money is not there, and all across the board people are getting paychecks slashed, it doesnt matter if you are a teacher, a plumber, an electrician, a nurse, the economy is tight it is survival of the fittest and if you dont like what your doing and you dont like your pay leave, nobody is forcing you to teach, go out there and get something else
oldteach says
Some of you actually think 5 and 6 year old kids could stay in school for 10 hours?
Everyone knows that the economy is bad. What I don’t understand, and no one has answered is why all of sudden is the bad economy public employees fault? If we didn’t cause it, then how are we the solution?
What I can’t believe is how some will get on here and rip teachers, but you don’t hear them complain about big bonuses that ceo’s get, or you didn’t hear anyone complain when the mortgage companies and those involved drove up houses costs. It sounds like the private sector for once is jealous of those who chose public sector jobs.
Here is why teachers, and other public employees are upset times are bad we get that, but once they get good we will still not get what it is our contracts.
Everyone who posts on here and sends their kids to hcps schools, or even private schools for that matter should be concerned because as teachers are portrayed in a bad light less will want to become teachers. Which will lead to poor quality teachers, and a poor quality education. That is not good for anyone.
th economy is in bad shape because says
the economy is in bad shape because of NAFTA, 3 wars that were fighting, corropt politicians, overspending on ridiculos things, Walmart, and everything is made in CHINA,people wake up we need to demand from are leaders to bring manufacturing back
Porter says
@OLDTEACH CEOs are not paid with taxpayer money nor are mortgage brokers.
Teachers do not get to sit out the economy and be immune from the effects of a recession. Real income of taxpayers and property values have dropped and that’s a reality whether you like it or not.
Cdev says
Since the CEO of GM is paid with public money as well as other bailed out companies we can scrutinize their pay!
Porter says
@Cdev The GM bailout was wrong, however it is still a private company.
I have to say you are one of the most unlikeable people whom I never met. You are obtuse, obfuscating, condescending and less than coherent.
Cdev says
It is not a private company when the American People hold the stock.
Sorry that pointing out facts which undermine your position makes me unlikeable. Honestly I don’t care weather you like me!
Porter says
@Cdev It’s whether not weather.
The public has an equity stake in GM, however we don’t fund it with tax dollars. You ignorant prig.
Cdev says
Porter you can be as garrulous as you want it wont change the fact that you bear a strong resembalence to a donkey!
Porter says
@Cdev – It’s won’t not wont and resemblance not resembalence.
Those red squiggly lines indicate a misspelled word when you use spell check. What you write is foolish enough so you don’t have to add insult to injury by misspelling common words.
Harfordmom says
Teachers – You do great work, be proud. Also be happy to have a job that you enjoy. I work for a company where no one has gotten an increase in 6 yrs and even took a pay cut 2 yrs ago. No one in the county is receiving more. It is sad but true. I can’t help with salary or benefits but as far as supporting the school and classroom – I have a suggestion.
I would love to give more to the school but money is tight for the parents too. Instead of having the PTA have constant fund raisers where I have to buy over priced stuff so the school can get a minimal amount – I think the current fund raising method should stop and just send a flat amount to the classrooms every month – I know it can’t be called “tuition” at a public school, but I’m sure a lawyer with the union could come up with a better name. I can pay and would happily but I want it all to go to the school and not waste hard earned money on crappy stuff I don’t want to buy my son anyway(chuck e cheese, pizza’s Rita’s, five below, wrapping paper – that is overpriced when the school gets so little anyway. Get more creative in raising money.
For the guy talking about “bad business decisions” teachers make by going into so much debt to earn a small income in teaching – OMG your a jerk !!! Master’s degrees are required and the requirements to maintain their license is insane. With that attitude no one will go into teaching. Be happy people are able to go into the field and do so much for your children!
Not From Here says
Harfordmom–you can always write a check to the PTA as a donation. That may also be tax deductible. Our kids haven’t been in HCPS for years, but we often just made a donation instead of buying–or selling–the junk.
dmichaels76 says
My statement was regarding a person who paid for two bachelors degrees and a masters degree BEFORE they got a job, and was then complaining about their student loan debt. Teachers are required to earn their masters degree by their tenth year of employment, not BEFORE they are employed. And, the school district will reimburse a portion (75% based on University of Maryland tuition rate) of their tuition expenses during those ten years so it makes little sense to earn the degree before you get a teaching job, particularly if you have to take out loans to do it. So yes, I would consider going deep into for a second bachelors degree and a masters degree before you are employed a bad business decision.
By the way, I am a teacher with a Masters degree plus 30 credits beyond that I earned to maintain my certification. I am one of those people you mentioned who “went into the field and do so much for your children”. In fact, you would probably be shocked to find out how much time I spend with school kids that I am not being paid for.
My advice to you would be to read ALL of what people wrote and think about it before you decide to call them names. Also, if you do decide to call them a name, you should use the “you’re” form of the word, as in “you’re are jerk”, not “your a jerk.”
Help with grammar is just another free service that I offer.
Harfordmom says
Thanks, “not from here” I do too, but if all parents did it then teachers wouldn’t have to buy the supplies which is something I don’t think they should have to do. Like I said it’s not a complete solution but a suggestion to get money into the classrooms and teachers could save a little money (and time)
Not From Here says
^^Good point–missed the teacher supply connection.:-)
show me the money says
Heck just do away with public education. Make it private. Quick calculations:
John Carroll tuition: $13,300 per year
HCPS student enrollemnt: 38,693
That would give hcps about $515,000,000.
Be prepared to pay, have your kids booted for not behaving, and dress codes.
I didn’t add some of the other fees private schools charge.
Thomas Paine says
I think privatizing education is a great idea, or at least significanlty changing it away from a one-size-fits-all approach, especially in high school. However, I think you would have to change the Maryland Constitution and probably the US Constitution to privatize it. That is not going to happen.
So…….back to the issue that is in front of us, until teachers are competitively compensated they should work to thier contracted duty hours. I do not see why anyone should have a problem with that, with the exception that some may feel we are already competitively compensated. But even if you feel that way, what is wrong with teachers only working to their contracted duty hours and making the parents that want the extra programs volunteer or pick up the tab for doing them?
Not From Here says
Here’s my problem with teachers only working contracted hours: any successful person works more than the hours for which they are technically paid. Most people who are successful in their fields and are paid a salary work more than a forty hour week. However, it seems to me that teachers want to be treated as professionals (which they are), but want to be paid for the hours they work.
I have always been salaried. I have always worked more hours than were expected. My husband has always been salaried. He has always worked many more hours than 40 per week.
One problem is that teachers have often never done anything else, so they think that the average salaried employee only works 40 hours a week. It simply is not true.
decoydude says
N F H- I don’t agree fully with your take. Remember they are contractual salaried employees. I believe the contract specifies 190 days. Are we still living in the 1800’s as if we all are going to go work on the farm during the growing season? I know more than quite a few salaried workers in the private sector with and without a 4 year degree that act as if they are on the clock. Of course, lazy teachers exist, and we all wish it were not so. I would encourage them to look for some other line of work. However, if you believe that the world is not full of lazy humans of all professions, then you might want to take your own advise. This is not the world of the “Greatest Generation”, but one dominated by egocentric sheep that have a long term horizon of a text message.
Thomas Paine says
The question is not do teachers think that the average salaried employee works 40 hours a week and nothing more. I’m not quite sure what teachers would say if that question were asked of them. Nor is the question does the average salaried employee work 40 hours a week and nothing more. The question is, if a teacher can grade all of their papers, plan all of their lessons, and teach all of their students within their contracted duty hours (which is all they get paid for), what is the problem if teachers no longer did anything else for their school, with the result being the parents or administrators had to fill the holes? What I mean by that is what if teachers no longer coached, no longer tutored students after hours, no longer had concerts or plays, no longer attended PTA meetings, etc? Those things are not required of teachers within their contracts, they are not paid or paid very little for them, but school administrators and the public in general have for a very long time expected teachers to fill those roles. All I am saying is teachers do not have to do those things and I think it is perfectly reasonable for them to stop doing those things without being called lazy, unprofessional, irresponsible, or elite. I know plenty of exceptional teachers who do nothing more than teach their students and go home everyday. I used to do a lot of stuff after school with kids, but I no longer can. I don’t think it is too much to ask any citizen to no longer expect teachers to do anything more than teach their students as effectively as possible and go home.
Cdev says
Here is what this means. Will a teacher like my wife put in extra time….yes because there is no way on God’s green Earth she can grade papers and plan quality lessons in the 7 and 1/2 hours a day. What will change is the free tutoring on top of that, her breaking her neck to update ed-line biweekly, placing all the work on ed-line, arranging 6 PM parent conferences because that is when they where availible, checking e-mail at 11 PM and the extra supplies she bought with her money for kids like pencils, paper and notebooks. All of those are other extra things she does. In her case it is practicality. She can’t afford to do those things since her time is valuable to our family and her picking up an extra job a couple of hours a few days a week is what we need.
Thomas Paine says
That is exactly what it means, CDEV, and I hope your wife and all other teachers do the same, whether they are unfortunately in your family’s economic situation or not. The hard part will be convincing the teachers who can use the extra money to not coach or to take a stipend for some other activity. However, if those activities are being done for financial reasons, teachers are a hell of a lot better off taking a part time job than taking a coaching stipend. It will also be difficult to convince those teachers whom are teaching just “for the kids” regardless of the salary. Although admirable, most teachers do need the paycheck. And in the end, this may actually benefit the taxpayers. If teachers stop coaching or sponsoring other activities and no one picks up the position, that is money HCPS does not have to spend, albeit not very much. But, if this persists for long enough and athletics and other activities were removed from the entire school budget, that would save a couple million a year. The question is, does the community no longer want to fund athletics and other after school activities. I think the answer is no. But at the same time, the community wants teachers to sponsor these activities without the competitive compensation teachers feel they deserve. Quite a quandary.
eddie vedder says
I will light the match this mornin’, so I won’t be alone
Watch as she lies silent, for soon light will be gone
Oh, I will stand arms outstretched, pretend I’m free to roam
Oh, I will make my way, through, one more day in Hell…
How much difference does it make
How much difference does it make, yeah…
I will hold the candle till it burns up my arm
Oh, I’ll keep takin’ punches until their will grows tired
Oh, I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind
Hey, I won’t change direction, and I won’t change my mind
How much difference does it make
Mmm, how much difference does it make…how much difference…
I’ll swallow poison, until I grow immune
I will scream my lungs out till it fills this room
How much difference (2x)
How much difference does it make (2x)
just a thought says
one question…in five to ten years when HCPS can attract no new teaching talent at all to the area and the level of education drops severely (and with it property values, community reputations, etc.) is there going to be a “loud outcry” from the taxpayers to fix the situation immediately? This whole argument seems incredibly short-sighted, which does not surprise me at all in this country. Hey, as long as I can still drive my SUV and watch “jersey shore” on my obnoxiously large television, who gives a shit about teachers and their pay…As a true harford countian, I have bigger things to worry about then good teachers in the county classrooms, such as my Ravens tickets, the athletic facilities at my child’s school, the orioles becoming a threat in the AL east again, etc. What a joke!
Porter says
@JUST A THOUGHT There is no evidence that we will have a problem attracting teachers.
In fact property values will go up if property taxes are reduced since Harford County would have a more attractive cost of living structure.
Nobody Is Listening says
The better question is WHO are we attracting? There will always be an available labor pool but what is the quality? If we talk about competition in schools the same applies between school systems. If we rank near the bottom in pay and benefits we will only be left to choose from the leftovers rejected by other systems.
Porter says
@NOBODY IS LISTENING I think we can live without prima donna teachers and recruit the average qualified candidates and provide them with a disciplined teaching environment that supports learning for students.
If overspending of taxpayer’s money worked Washington, DC would have best educational outcomes in the world.
Nobody Is Listening says
Serious questions need to be asked about the future of Harford Co. schools. If a prospective teacher were to ask me if they should work for HCPS I honestly don’t think I could give that recommendation now. For that matter I would not recommend anyone entering college to choose a career in education. The return on the investment (paying for college and time) is not worth it. There is a lot more money to be made in the private sector with the equivalent education.
There is fat in the system. While the superintendent will say our administration is lean compared to other systems there is still excess. He will not make the hard decisions about eliminating upper management positions. Somebody needs to bring the system back to reality. You cannot continue to treat your employees (all of them) badly and not expect negative repercusions. Either in a lack of ability to attract quality people, retain those that you have, and entice people to more to Harford Co., or businesses that need an educated work force.
The school board needs to show leadership here. If the BOE will not do it then we need to replace them. We need to watch them carefully and if they are not getting it done then we need to say so at the ballot box.
The Watcher says
Taxpayers must take their money away from HCPS since it is the only way to reform their profligate spending. We nust force HCPS to change its practices by starving them of tax funds. It is the only way.