From John Paff:
Tonight is a historic night in Maryland. It has been 20 years since the citizens of Maryland have been able to bring legislation to a referendum. Tonight that streak ends! The message from the voters to the democratic legislators in Annapolis is clear, “Can you hear us now?”
After 47,288 signatures were validated for the month of May, the voters only needed 8,448 valid signatures in June. That number is now inevitable. As we speak Delegates Parrott and McDonough are at the Board of Elections delivering an unofficial count of 74,000 additional signatures to Maryland’s Secretary of State! The final tally is believed to fall somewhere between 132,000-134,000 total signatures submitted for validation over the two month period! The Board of Elections now has until July 20th to validate the signatures, at which time SB167 (In-state Tuition for Illegal Immigrants) will officially be suspended until the voters decide it’s fate on the November 2012 Presidential Ballot!
The referendum will face legal challenges as the ACLU and Casa de Maryland will try to suppress the will of Maryland’s voters. Annapolis, the ACLU and Casa de Maryland seem to have forgotten that we are a “government of the people, by the people, for the people” (Abraham Lincoln, 1863). Today is the first step in reminding our elected officials that they work for “We the People”!
John Paff
Harford County Coordinator
MdPetitions.com
Whoo hoo!! Now if we could just do the same thing for the proposed toll fee increases and getting rid of the transit “police”…. Think of the possibilities if we all stick together and have some elected officials truely passionate about helping the average citizen…
Are our leaders monitoring the “Dagger” and comments posted? Can the proposed toll increases be subject to the pettion process? Are there any experts on the Maryland Constitution that could answer this question?
No expert, but I’m leaning no way on that one. Referendums are actions for or against laws enacted by the Legislature only, as far as I know.
The toll plan is decided by the MDTA Board, made up of appointees.
Way to go Delegates Parrot and McDonough! Now … on to illegals taking so many jobs from us LEGAL, TAX PAYING citizens!
A referendum to that if passed by voters will undoubtedly open the door to allow illegal immigrants to use the courts to longer have to pay taxes. Not sure what the victory is here it’s still just McDonough making up problems to solve in order to cover up the fact he’s collecting state welfare in the form of his legislative salary to be an ineffectual clown.
As a former Maryland resident living in PA, I am so proud of the citizens who worked so hard to collect all those signatures. To allow illegal residents to receive in-state tuition funded by taxpayers is the most outrageous insult to the hard working citizens of Maryland. Let the ACLU and Casa whatever sue. The people in this country have had enough of the politicians pandering to the illegals, and now the Maryland residents of the most liberal state in the country have spoken. Good luck in 2012. We will be watching.
The term “illegals” is bandied about these days much like the “n” word in the past and the “f” word today. Yes, the term accurately describes a person’s legal status in terms of citizenship and/or residency but the tone in which it used often betrays a sense of disgust and derision. With just one word, “illegal”, it is so easy to lump a large group of fellow human beings into a faceless class, unworthy of sympathy.
We must recognize these people for who they are – mothers, fathers, sons, daughters – that are seeking a better life beyond what their native country can currently offer them. For anyone opposed to the Maryland Dream Act, ask yourself was anyone in your family ever here “illegally”? If your family is like mine, you can’t answer that honestly because you can’t trace your family roots back more than a couple generations.
For those of you of the Christian tradition, especially Catholic (The Catholic Church in MD supported the passage of the Maryland Dream Act), where is the sense of charity that come’s from Christ’s words, “What so ever you did to the least of them, you have done to me.”?
Do we open the gates freely? Certainly not. Like it or not, our economy depends on “surplus” labor to keep costs down. The child of an illegal who qualifies to receive the benefit allowable under the Maryland Dream Act is exactly the type of person we want in our state – someone who can thrive and succeed in the face of adversity. It was immigrants like this – our ancestors – that made our country into the biggest economy in the world. Shut off this flow and we will surely diminish as a nation.
So, you’re suggesting we use the law to coerce people into supporting illegals? It’s not really a gift of the heart then is it?
Be very careful throwing out the old WWJD line. Christians and others should feel free to support those in need as *their* conscience indicates, not what the legislature implements.
@Joseph Smith:Just because you find the term “illegal” offensive doesn’t mean everyone that uses it does so out of malice. You juxtapose that yourself. Maybe I think your reference to “surplus” labor is condescending and demeaning. It is a nice feel good thing to support people who want a better life; I do it myself (just not for those who, instead of working to improve their own country, abandon it to come here without permission). It is quite another thing to pass legislation against the will of the majority that rewards people who have decided immigration laws don’t apply to them (granted, this will be determined by vote – what could be more Democratic?). Your point of view doesn’t address the injustice to those who await the privilege of immigrating to this country or those who have labored (and paid) their way through the process legally. You’re quick to say “We must recognize…” even though many would tell you we don’t “must” anything. Citing situations of a hundred or more years ago is irrelevant to the problems of here and now and doesn’t make their illegal presence any more legal. The liberal crowd is far too willing to spend other people’s money to assuage their own conscience. Why not simply pool your money into a college fund for illegals? Does helping those you feel are less fortunate somehow offset misappropriating people’s money and using legislation to impose your view of utopia on others?
OK, churches, you want to risk your tax free staus too? Along with CASA? Keep it up. Churches remain churches, you have no place in the govt., remember that catholic charities.
@Joseph Smith – Illegal aliens are in this country violating US law. Giving illegal aliens rights reserved for citizens and allowing illegal aliens to jump in line on immigrants who are following the rules and waiting their turn is appalling.
If you are worried that we don’t have enough legal immigration then lobby to increase quotas, but don’t solve your perceived problem with amnesty and unfair Dream Act legislation.
Mr. Smith,
The word Illegal accurately describes these criminals! Put whatever happy spin you want, but they are criminals! You say they are Mothers, fathers, children….Osama bin laden has dozens of children does that make him a good guy? How about the BTK killer? How about the MS-13 gang members in Montgomery county?
Do I know if anyone in my family was here illegally? I absolutely know. I’ve traced back every leg of my family tree and all came legally! Most of my relatives who immigrated here were from Germany and came in the 1870’s. Except for John Bailey who came here from England in the 1600’s. I have his records from when he fought in the American Revolution to create this wonderful country!
john Paff-get off your high horse. Many people have come to this country by means other than a proper permit and visa for decades. In fact, your ancestors even if they came properly registered, many from Europe did not, should their ancestors pay the price of their fathers and not be allowed to attend school? Also, illegal entrance is not a felony, thus not a criminal act, but a civil penalty. Fellons go to prison and missdeneanors are not usually jailable offenses. I supposse you can also call them terrorists, but that would not make them so.
@ Frankly,
There are numerous items you stated that I would call uninformed and opinionated. As there are so many, lets discuss them one by one.
“Many people have come to this country by means other than a proper permit and visa for decades.” – First, define many. Second, these people have all broken the laws of the United States and should be punished accordingly unless they have obtained citizenship or are legally here now. Also, simply because others have done something that is wrong in the past does not make it right. If I see others break into a department store at night and loot it, do I get to do the same? No, of course not. Use a little common sense.
“In fact, your ancestors even if they came properly registered” – I don’t know anything about his ancestors, and I doubt you do either, so you probably shouldn’t make this argument.
“many from Europe did not” – The immigration laws have changed greatly over the years. Yes, many Europeans did not come here legally, and I would kick out the illegal ones today.
“should their ancestors pay the price of their fathers and not be allowed to attend school?” – No, of course not as their ancestors are most likely natural born US citizens. If they are not, I would deport them.
“Also, illegal entrance is not a felony, thus not a criminal act, but a civil penalty.” – You are correct, it is not a felony. However, it is a criminal act. Title 8, United States Code Annotated, Section 1325 states the first offense is a fine, imprisonment for not more than 6 months or both, the second offense is a fine, imprisonment for not more than 2 years or both. And, according to Black’s Law Dictionary, a civil penalty is a fine assessed for a violation of a statute or regulation, thus a crime.
“Fellons go to prison and missdeneanors are not usually jailable offenses.” – Felons only sometimes go to prison. There are numerous penalties available to the courts for a person that is convicted of a felony, ranging from probation before judgment to the death penalty. Depending on the felnoy committed, the circumstances surrounding the crime, the victim, the prior criminal history of the defendant, the overcrowding of the prisons, and numerous other factors, I would say that a first timer, committing a minor felony would get a PBJ. As for misdemeanors, they usually are jailable offenses. The typical misdemeanor usually has a range of penalties associated with it, usually including incarceration. Typically, one wouldn’t be jalied for misdemeanor, depending on all the factors of the crime, but they typically are jailable offenses.
“I supposse you can also call them terrorists, but that would not make them so.” – I don’t understand the point of this argument of yours, but, I will simply add, just because you say they are not terrorists, does not make it so either.
Anyways, I hope this will help you understand the complex world of the law. Should you wish, I will gladly offer more insight.
Paul
Well reasoned, nice job.
Paul, spare me your knowledge of law and inmigration. Illegal entry is not a felony, thus those committing these “crimes” are not fellons. In fact, anything that is punished by a fine is nothing more than a CIVIL violation. My post centered around that fact that people have come to America in many ways and many (tens of thousands) from Italy, Eastern Europe and Jews from Germany came in with no paperwork or stayed at the “line” to get in. Should them their children and grandchildren pay for their parents and grandparents not having proper documentation as they entered our nation? The clear answer is that they didn’t suffer the consequences of their parents decisions and those children of today’s illegals should be treated in the same way as it has been standing history that we as a nation will not punish the chidren for the sins of their fathers.
@Frankly Speaking – Illegal entry to the United States is an illegal act and any person illegally entering or re-entering after deportation has committed an illegal act, which is why they are then called illegal aliens.
I know from your numerous insane posts that you want the United States to have open-borders, open immigration and growth of the welfare state.
You are simply wrong.
“Paul, spare me your knowledge of law and inmigration.” – Ok, but it appears someone needs to educate you.
“Illegal entry is not a felony,” – I never said it was.
“thus those committing these “crimes” are not fellons.” – No, they are not felons.
“In fact, anything that is punished by a fine is nothing more than a CIVIL violation.” – Well, that is not true on two fronts. First, as I stated, for the first offense, being an illegal aline in the US is punishable by 6 months incarceration. Second, there is a difference between a civil citation, such as speeding, and a crime that is punished by a fine that has a penalty which can be incarceration. In this case, it is not a civil violation. Also, a civil violation is a crime.
“My post centered around that fact that people have come to America in many ways and many (tens of thousands) from Italy, Eastern Europe and Jews from Germany came in with no paperwork or stayed at the “line” to get in.” – If that is what your post centered around, you should probably learn to express yourself more clearly.
“Should them their children and grandchildren pay for their parents and grandparents not having proper documentation as they entered our nation?” – No, noone should ever pay for the sins of their forefathers. However, if the ones that came hear illegally are still here illegally, they should be prosecuted.
“The clear answer is that they didn’t suffer the consequences of their parents decisions and those children of today’s illegals should be treated in the same way as it has been standing history that we as a nation will not punish the chidren for the sins of their fathers.” I would never advocate punishing a legal immigrant or American citizen because their relatives are illegals. I would prosecute the illegals here. Noone here is saying any child that is here legally should not receive benefits that are available to all US citizens.
Hopefully my knowledge of law and immigration didn’t overwhelm you to much this time.
Paul
Paul
I believe that the police won’t arrest someone because they are illegal, so I don’t know how you can call these illegals “criminals”. Clearly, if they committed a crime the police would arrest them, wouldn’t they? Please can you educate me some more? I guess that your superior reasonning would come up with a clever answer why that’s so, to meet you political views, but the fact remains that illegal entry does not equal criminal activity.
@FRANKLY SPEAKING
Police can and do arrest people for civil offenses such as illegal entry into the United States. They put the illegal offenders in jail, confirm their status and typically deport them.
And while much of Maryland is a sanctuary state, Frederick County Sheriff’s Office is working with ICE in apprehending illegal aliens much to the chagrin of CASA de MD and the O’Malley administration.
Hey Frankly,
“I believe that the police won’t arrest someone because they are illegal” – I believe in ghosts. Doesn’t make it so. I believe I should be king of the world. Again, not so. Law enforcement agencies across the US arrest illegals all the time. That is the reality. In Maryland, not so much because of politics.
“so I don’t know how you can call these illegals “criminals”” – I call em as I see em. And as it is the truth, hard to argue, eh?
“Clearly, if they committed a crime the police would arrest them, wouldn’t they?” – No, law enforcement officers have discretion when choosing to arrest a person. Sometime they have higher priorities, sometimes it is political.
“Please can you educate me some more?” – I will try, but it is difficult with a student that isn’t willing to learn.
“I guess that your superior reasonning” – You said it.
“would come up with a clever answer why that’s so, to meet you political views” – My political views are irrelevant. The law is the law is the law. However, to entertain this a bit, I am conservative libertarian that weighs in my opinion based on the issue, not the political platform of the issue. I believe that most people tend to view things with either red or blue blinders. That includes you (this is solely my opinion). To me, these blinded people do not hear that facts. They don’t listen. A sound, logical, well reasoned argument means nothing to them. There is only their way or the wrong way, no matter how few (if any) facts whatsoever support their way. I have listened to the debate on illegal immigration, I have done some research on my own, and I consider myself to be a well-educated individual. I know what the law is on immigration and I know what you stated was not the facts. It is a crime for a person to be in this country illegally.
You have stated before that the punishment decides if something is a crime or not. That is 100% not true. I would suggest you do some research on your own. Maybe talk to a lwyer (I know a few if you would like me to give you some contact information), maybe apply and get admitted to law school. Do all this before making such blatantly wrong statements.
“but the fact remains that illegal entry does not equal criminal activity” – Not a fact at all. The FACT is according to the code of the United States, not me personally, illegal entry into the United States is criminal activvity. Read the code. Take your liberal biased glasses off. I am all for immigration reform, however, the law currently states it is illegal.
Anyways, hopefully this was somewhat helpful. Have a nice day.
Paul
@Frankly Speaking – Wow you are unhinged!
Illegal aliens are in the US illegally. It couldn’t be more simple that illegals are not citizens and do not deserve the benefits of citizenship or amnesty in any form.
Patrick-You are not capable of determining who and what people deserve, that will be done by a higher authority.
Illegal does not equal subhuman or inhumane treatment. Illegals should have a path towards citizenship and it will happen as our country becomes more diverse, bilingual and dependent on manual labor that americans are now willing to do.
The free market is determining that these people are needed to provide a service and the laws will catch up to regulate that demand as they always do. Less regulation and more freedom to open up the labor market is what the free market is dictating or are you for more regulations that restrick growth and economic activity?
If anyone is “unhinged”, I would say it is you and your status quo tea baggers that will no doubt fight it any attempt to bring some form of equality to those yearning to seek a better life by WORKING for a better life as others have done for the past 200+ years.
“Illegals should have a path towards citizenship…”
No, illegals should have a path towards jail if they have committed any other crimes, or deportation otherwise.
@Frankly
You are definitely “unhinged”. Illegal equals illegal, which you fail to grasp. Your open borders advocacy is obvious and wrong.
Furthermore you disrespect all the people who have signed up to emigrate to the US and are waiting for years in their home countries for their turn.
What should we do with the people who provide the incentive for the to come by offering jobs? I think they too need to be jailed. Alas we don’t punish them!
My grandfather spent time going through Ellis Island. Did he do it right? I don’t know; I think so. My parents were born here, I was born here. As far as Iknow, we palyed by the rules and are hre today. I am an American. Squatters’ rights. Regardless, times change. Adapt or die. Open borders and sending us your poor, your sick and your infirmed might have worked in the past. Not now. When we open the doors for the Cubans, Castro supposedly sent us all the criminals he could. Smart move on Fidel’s part. You want to emmigrate, fine. Follow the rules. No rules, no benefits. This state sucks and when I hit retirement age — buh-bye! You can keep Marty, Dutch, the short fat lady. Elijah and, by then, Sarbanes’ kid.
Greg, This isn’t the first time you have said similar on the Dagger board. If you don’t like Maryland then you should simply get out. Even if you value your secure job and pay, you could commute from Pa, a lot of other people do. Maybe it is easier for you to complain about everything and blame current politicians. Maybe we should all blame all our problems on others like many in this society do. Maybe you shouldn’t be posting on this board while at work. See, you aren’t so perfect either. But it’s ok for you to break the rules.
Who the heck is Greg?