From Bel Air South Community Foundation:
Folks,
I am sure all of you have heard that Governor Hogan’s new administration reversed their stance on denying RT 924 access to Wal-Mart. Though they did not approve a traffic signal, they did approve right in/right out access.
The SHA’s letter allowing access was sent out on Inauguration Day! With the myriad of tasks involved in establishing a new administration it seems quite odd that reversing a decision regarding Wal-Mart access would be a first order of business.
Time for us to get back to work!
We have to let the Governor know that after supporting his election we are extremely disappointed he would reverse the SHA’s decision.
Things we need to do that will take only a minute of your time.
1) Go to the governor’s website: http://governor.maryland.gov/mail/default.asp
If that does not work for you go to http://governor.maryland.gov/larry_hogan.html and click on Contact Us at the bottom of the page.
Enter the required info. For “Correspondence Topic” select – Transportation issue. For Subject put – “Bel Air Wal-Mart RT 924 Access.”
In the Message section write your concern as to why the SHA’s decision was reversed on Inauguration Day. If you are pressed for time, simply copy and paste one of the three attached letters into the message section. The letters are correctly formatted for pasting.
2) Call the Governor’s office during work hours at 410-974-3901. A lady will answer who will gladly make note of your complaint and forward to the governor. If calling after hours you can leave a message.
In both cases, the greater our response, the greater our effect.
That’s if for now!
Bel Air South Community Foundation
communityinfo@bascf.org
Get used to it my republican friends. Whenever there is a choice between corporate interests and community interest, the former will always win out with this governor. You wanted him; you got him.
I am very pleased to see a change of direction for Maryland and the approved Wal-Mart access on RT 924. The approved ingress and egress on RT 924 is reasonable and realistic……it affords customers a safe means of shopping and will reduce traffic flow and congestion on RT 24. The impact on the local neighborhoods will be on the roadway of RT 924 and not in their backyards with traffic is passing through as it does at the current time. Neighborhoods near Bel Air should not be surprised by an increased impact caused by an increase in the county’s population.
How do 10,000 extra cars a day reduce traffic? Do you even know this area to not know a major home development is directly across 924?
If you really believe 10,000 cars will be going to walmart each and every day you swallowed their stinky bait hook line and sinker. There are 3 walmarts in a county of 230,000 people. Do the math they knew you would bite and when the real numbers came out, access had to be granted.
Please citizens of Harford county stop looking so stupid, Hogan will cut us off completly.
Thank You for the reasoned approach.
We need business, and we need to move forward for the greater good, not just a few.
There is no greater good from a Bel Air Walmart. Building a new store does not create instant increase in residents or their disposable income. All that will be accomplished is a shift of spending from one store to another, more traffic, increase in accidents, and putting residents in danger. It’s a zero sum game from a tax standpoint.
And Hogan has already cut HarCo off. He obviously isnt thinking about the next election but is completing promised favors from the last one $$
Bring on the Wal Mart.
Damit with all the things this state needs I knew Hogan was just waiting in the wings to get this passed on inauguration day.
And here is a cut and paste for everyone else:
Governor Hogan,
The citizens of Bel Air are proud of their community. It has an excellent school system and is a great place to raise children. For the last three years we have championed the building of a Wal-Mart supercenter in the heart of our community. This area is made up of neighborhoods, schools and an array of small business. To open a 24/7 supercenter at this location would be a blessing. The 10,000 cars this Wal-Mart will bring will result in no traffic congestion as they are already on the road, and will not compromise traffic safety or an alter family orientated life style. The SHA had determined that Wal-
Mart’s direct access to RT 924 would not be beneficial to the road network and thank God and little baby Jesus they changed their mind. In addition, no other large business has ever been allowed direct access to RT 924 in this area because there are no other large business in the area. It is therefore reassuring that on the day you took office your administration reversed the SHA’s
decision and granted unprecedented direct access to a super store that will bring to the community that which small local business can’t. Governor, God bless you. We supported your election efforts and in return you listened. Very encouraging.
Sincerely
Blah, blah, blah….
How asinine.
Define large? Festival is directly across from this property with major stores such as Kohls, Kleins, Petco and others. They define large. The Proposed Walmart isn’t large, it’s gigantic and a monstrosity.
“… thank God and little baby Jesus…”? For a Walmart? Are you serious? Might I recommend a sober analysis of your priorities? World peace, sure… an end to hunger and suffering, absolutely… a freaking Walmart? Sure, its convenient to get all my Chinese junk in one place, but I’m not thanking God and little baby Jesus for it… besides, Target has better Chinese junk.
Bel Air South? More like Edgewood North.
What’s wrong with Edgewood? Are you upset that my parents may travel from Edgewood to shop near you?
I’m not sure when “Bel Air South” became a real “thing” but it’s humorous (to me) to refer to that area as Edgewood North. Why?
If you can’t find the humor in that, I’d suggest you just ignore it
I have no idea what’s wrong with Edgewood other than reading a bulk of crime comes from a few mile stretch in that unincorporated community.
Politician runs on a business-first platform.
Residents surprised when a business gets what it wants.
Would you be whining if it was a Cabelas, Nordstroms, or Nieman Marcus?
Just be glad it isn’t a Kmart.
Not that this needs repeating, but personally I’d be happier with anything that draws less traffic. It’s incredibly disingenuous and unfair to paint all opposition to that plan by claiming it’s just a Walmart thing.
I wrote Walmart and wondered why, if they are so focused on groceries, and they have been opening more of their “market” locations than superstore locations (closing superstores actually) in recent years, why not anchor a shopping center with a market store and keep the super store at Constant Friendship, which is better suited to that traffic… and there were crickets of course.
They have zero concern or interest in community input.
So were you surprised when you asked a business to reveal sensitive and expensive market research that could be useful to a competitor, and they didn’t spill the beans?
This isn’t a James Bond movie where the super villain reveals everything when you ask nicely.
No, I was surprised (actually I wasn’t) that a company who wants my business and wants to move into a local area completely ignored my respectful inquiry. Not even a form letter response.
It’s like knocking on your neighbor’s door when you know they’re home and they refuse to answer.
Maybe your neighbors don’t like you. Childish yes, but I couldn’t resist!
It’s not about Walmart, although I can give you many reasons why Walmart is a bad corporation to bring in, I don’t need them. The elephant in the room speaks for itself. Anything of this magnitude in this already traffic stressed area is bad for the community and surrounding businesses. As much as I would love to see a Caleba’s, Nordstrom and others in Harford County this location is not right for all the same reasons it’s not right for Walmart.
I would disagree that the traffic is better in Constant Friendship. The new traffic pattern actually made traffic worse there. Of course no one in the county cares about that. I complained about that and they said they looked at traffic there in 1987 so no need to re-evaluate. And hey, lets build apartments back there, too!
hank, I’m afraid you are incredibly misinformed or talking to the wrong people.
1. “I would disagree that the traffic is better in Constant Friendship.”
I didn’t say it was better, I said the area is better suited to that kind of development, which I believe, is a fairly indisputable statement to make. If you disagree, I welcome an argument to the contrary. I think if you just open a map website you’ll have exhibit 1 of my argument.
2. “The new traffic pattern actually made traffic worse there.”
Well, clearly “worse” is a matter of opinion, and hardly quantifiable. However, in my experience the traffic in most directions at most times of day is considerably better since they finished work at the 924/24 exchange. I’ll grant that one place that is worse is going from 924 south to 24 south to 95 north, where you have to merge over at least 2 lanes through traffic in a fairly short distance. I expressed my concern about that merge when the plans were presented and got an email saying, basically, it was the best they could do and they would study the timing of the light at Singer Rd to alleviate the issue. Overall, despite it being “different”, I would not say it was worse.
3. ” I complained about that and they said they looked at traffic there in 1987 so no need to re-evaluate.”
I don’t know who you were talking to. Freely available on the internet are several sources of traffic studies that have been done in that area over a handful of years. The state did a couple both before and after construction, and others were done and submitted to the County by various projects, like Wegmans, Walmart, and others that have fairly detailed measures of total traffic, wait times, etc. It seems unfathomable to me that if you asked someone at the state or county for that information they couldn’t give it to you since I found it myself on the internet.
And if you saw the data from those studies, you would see that the primary way they address whether intersections work well or not are based on two things: wait time, and queing (how many cars sit at the light). In both of those measure on almost all of the intersection points, the numbers have improved since the new configuration was finished.
But don’t let me confuse you with the facts.
Here is part of the response from the county from a few years ago:
Thank you again for your comments regarding the development and traffic issues at Constant Friendship.The Constant Friendship development is grandfathered because lots were recorded and approved prior to the establishment of Adequate Public Facilities (APF) for roads. .lAs we mentioned before, a traffic study was done for the Constant Friendship Area, including the residential component, and road improvements identified in that study are currently in place. The developer of Constant Friendship has met the traffic requirements in accordance with the policy that was in place in 1987.
In 1998 a traffic study was done for the Constant Friendship townhouse development south of Singer Road and west of Tollgate Road. The study was required because these townhouses were not approved in the original Constant Friendship Plan. Road improvements were identified at that time and have been constructed. The intersection of Tollgate Road and Constant Friendship Blvd was not analyzed in this traffic study because under the APF guidelines only intersecting collectors or higher functional classification roads are studied based on definitions of roads in the Harford County Transportation Plan. Constant Friendship Blvd is not a functional classified roadway. However, Harford County’s Department of Public Works has modified the Constant Friendship Blvd traffic pattern in recent years as well as intersection capacity improvements at Tollgate Road and Constant Friendship
hank:
Couple points to make in reply here.
1. Harford’s APF standards are practically garbage. They need to be improved and updated, and that’s completely within County control to do– but they won’t until people start pushing for it. I’ve said this before, but having traffic graded at “C” as being acceptable (meaning the developer doesn’t have to do anything) is NOT acceptable.
2. That answer is correct, according to APF, they can’t require the developer to do more than APF. BUT that doesn’t mean the county can’t do it, it will just cost us all money. We have to pay for it, because the AFP code says they don’t have to– see #1 above– and see the invalidation of every statement like “if Walmart fixes all the roads, then who cares”, because one day, yes, we are going to have to pay for it, just like at CF.
3. Finally, if there are new developments in the CF area, and new traffic studies, then it’s possible that changes would be required. However, to my knowledge, the latest development there (being the apartment complex behind Target), has inexplicably had no required changes to CF Blvd as part of the approval. Which, yeah, is just amazing to me.
While Cabela’s or Nordstrom would indeed be a nice proposal, I really wouldn’t care if it was a thrift store or a Gabriel Bros.’s. Noble is correct-it is the added traffic that Walmart will bring that is the main concern for most who live or drive regularly in the area.
I drive this area frequently when exactly is the worst traffic I have never seen anything I consider over the top other than around the holidays. ANd since people will be parking and shopping doesn’t that actually take cars off the road?
Traffic can be quite bad on Rt 24 during usual rush. The 924 area gets gridlocked when school gets out and peaks several time clearing up at 6pm or so. While it is bad now it is worst mid-August to early November when high school sports are at their busiest (yes, the schools were there first). It gets intense during the holiday season.
Thanks for the answer does this happen every day?
I can usually get to church on Sunday’s without much traffic. The County Council has shown a video on the intensity of the traffic on 924 during a meeting. They could probably supply you with a copy.
Beware traffic studies!
They are paid for by the developer (makes sense.)
They are structured by the county (also makes sense.)
No one monitors WHEN they are conducted. Makes NO sense!
For potential Harford Lutheran School on Whitaker Mill Rd, traffic study was done on the required day of the week, but developer chose a school holiday, so normal numbers were not collected. Traffic study requirements and supervision are subject to much skew by the developers, and are not reliably tight or monitored by an independent group.
Many, many holes for cheating in this whole traffic evaluation process, and difficult to find out who is responsible. All public info, so get friendly with Planning and Zoning and keep a close eye out!
This had nothing to do with inauguration day, The 21st is national squirrel day it was done for the nuts of Bel Air.
Most of the people bitching and moaning about Walmart creating more traffic are the ones who ruined Harford County starting 25 years ago moving into your cookie cutter houses in poorly planned developments. Southern Harford County is already ruined. The traffic situation is horrendous, entirely caused by the influx of outsiders who “moved to the country”. You all reap what you sow One more store won’t make a damn bit of difference.
“One more store won’t make a damn bit of difference.”
And that’s exactly the attitude that helped “ruin”, as you say, Harford County 25 years ago before I got here, so thank you for that. Job well done.
Bright Oaks residents can always cut through Hunters Run and come out at a traffic light. I am a Bel Air resident who accepts and is pretty much glad when all this protest is over and Walmart becomes a new neighbor. Sears and many markets closing – some new jobs in the area and new tax revenue will be welcome. I’m sure if folks in their nice houses in Festival Bel Air area can’t stand it – they can sell and move to Jarrettsville and fill up the north end of the county.
I like your idea of expanding the so-called development envelope. We can find out who really is a NIMBY.
There really is no reason to expand the envelop, this is exactly what it was designed for and until it is full building will continue.
There’s plenty of reason – to make room for the mass migration north, as proposed by another commentator.
Don’t be a NIMBY, BelAirBob. Embrace the free market.
The development envelope keeps people from moving north?
Tell me more I’m all ears.
I’ll answer as soon as you explain why you are against free markets deciding what goes where.
I’m all ears.
Is it my imagination or is there really a “stick it to my neighbors” meme that runs pretty deep in most of the expected pro-development at any all all costs crowd that we normally expect to comment in Dagger. If it were just a pro-business stance it’d be one thing but you can pretty much count on snarky comments about people that object to being snobs, or having nice houses (as if that’s a bad thing) or how they’d like Fallston opened up with section-8s. I sense jealousy and envy and it seems to come out as being somehow happy others access and neighborhoods are being compromised. We all know what happened here – the timing far too coincidental to be accidental. I expect Walmart will occupy that space off 924, but it will never be appropriate for that neighborhood and the traffic will be made even worse than it already is but money talks and Walmart has money – lots of it used to influence and where influence cannot be had purchase a very aggressive team of attorneys. The only choice the neighbors have is to boycott. Don’t shop there – drive down the street just a little farther to a local store if you can still find one that’s owned by a local family that pays local taxes. We are at fault for allowing companies like Walmart to completely control commerce almost everywhere they exist and to the complete decimation of small business in small towns by the thousands all across this country. Quite simply Walmart sucks, they have cheap made in China crap and could give two craps about your neighborhoods.
The roads are congested everywhere in the County. Southern Harford has the bulk of it.
It isn’t the traffic that’s bothersome, its the driving. Impatient people will pass me on the shoulder or double yellow, proceed to drive faster than the speed limit 45 seconds up the road to only sit at the red light they probably wait 4 minutes everyday at anyway. I really love rolling up behind them, sitting at the red light. All that effort for nothing. Idiots.
Everyone’s in a hurry to go to that chicken sammich place because they think its healthier than Mackie D’s.
Its bad enough these same people’s misbehaving kids are in the restaurants I eat at, then they drive like assholes on the way home.
I had some Bel air mommie beeping, flashing lights, shaking fist, cussing at me because I was driving too slow, all while a child sat in a car seat behind her.
Well, if you were able to devote all that time to observing the person behind you then you clearly weren’t paying attention to what was happening in front.
Hyuck hyuck.
How hard is it to notice the same asshole riding your bumper for miles?
Hyuck hyuck hyuck.
Flashing lights are easy to see, I can hear beeping, I look back once and see a fist shaking, look back another time and see mouth moving, look back again and see head out window yelling, hear profanity when the car comes along side of me.
Over privileged white people I swear.
Nice homes in Festival area means a person who will not accept the congestion of Walmart should be able to sell relatively easily. Many of us thought the world was going to end when the Festival at Bel Air and surrounding developments were built. We were wrong. The world continued and now we have lots of great shopping, a great new high school, and a brand new firehouse. Welcome Walmart to the party.
Every one please copy, paste and open the following link. It’s not a short article but it sums up all you need to know about Walmart. http://www.salon.com/2013/11/10/walmart_an_economic_cancer_on_our_cities/
The third letter says “The citizens of Bel Air have fought hard for nearly three years to prevent Wal-Mart from relocating to RT 924. Your disingenuous intervention has effectively opened the door for this unwelcomed super center. Thank you, Governor. We in Bel Air staunchly supported your election but it is apparent that your allegiance is held elsewhere.”
The Walmart is not in Bel Air, and the local residents are not “citizens of Bel Air”. If they would like to start paying taxes to the Town of Bel Air, I’m sure the local government would be happy to accommodate them.
Potayto, potahto.
Emmorton? Bel Air South? Bel Air? Abingdon? When we moved here our agent tried to tell me we were looking at a house in Bel Air South, and I immediately corrected him and said there’s no such thing, this is Abingdon, let’s get real.
It was HYSTERICAL, by the way, when Walmart’s presentation at the giant old community input meeting back in 2012 said something about the new Walmart in “Abingdon”.
The groans and shouts of “Bel Air” from the crowd were comical, but the idea that Walmart didn’t even know the name of the place they wanted to build the store?
Yeah, that tells you everything you need to know about Walmart right there. THEY DON’T CARE.
Remember when Del. Rick Impallaria wanted to fine Wegmans for billing itself as “wegmans of Bel Air”?
I’d link to the article but it’s from 2011 in the Sun and the Dagger won’t post it.
The folks living there can call it anything they want, but that still doesn’t make it Bel Air. Do they get town trash pickup? Do they pay town tax? Can they vote in town elections? No, no, and no. Not Bel Air. If you ask the actual Bel Air residents, I wouldn’t be surprised if a good number have no problem with Walmart building the store in Bel Air South (which does show up as a delineated area on maps).
I can’t believe you morons really believe Hogan had anything to do with road access.
I would be embarrassed to send something like that to the Governor.
This topic is cringe worthy…….
Bel Air’s finest.
One more thing….
The death of Bel Air was when RT 24, from 95 to RT 1 was constructed.
Anyone that moved in after that is what destroyed rural Harford County.
So get off your high horse and shop at Walmart…..you deserve it.
Years ago the state saw the need to build Rte. 24 to relieve congestion on 924. Now they turn around and dump thousands of cars back on 924, in spite of the fact that over those years development has continued and resulted in even more congestion. It doesn’t take much to see there is no common sense in all of this. Whose writing the script?
Give it a break people. Just go with it. What’s the big deal? Its better than Constant Friendship Blvd and the TRAFFIC MESS there. Actually better because at least you you will get in and out easier. B@&$h. B$&@h. B@&)$. People akways have to find something to gripe about
I’m really surprised the fire marshal allowed Constant Friendship to be built as it is. Imagine the mess if the movie theater caught fire
So are you saying Kharn that you understand there are inappropriate locations for some types of business for safety concerns? That’s rich.
Not inappropriate locations, inappropriate site designs.
Constant Friendship: Accessed solely by Constant Friendship Blvd.
Bel Air Walmart: Access by Bel Air South Parkway, Plumtree Road, and 924
Festival: Access by Bel Air South Parkway (one in/out, one in, one out), and Wheel Road (two in/out)
Boulevard: Access by 924, Box Hill Corporate Center Dr, and two in/out on Box HIll S Parkway.
Seems like one of these shopping destinations has extremely limited access compared to the others. Even the Fallston Walmart has two entrances.
………….and why did the developer of all that land (WalMart, BJs, etc) turn down the state/federal highway plan of a I95 exit directly into/out of that shopping area? Now, THAT was foolish!
The developer didn’t turn down the access to I95, the NIMBY’s did.
It frightens me that anyone could actually think that Governor Hogan, just as he was being sworn in, stopped to order SHA to take a new position and produce a letter before he made it to Baltimore for the his inaugural gala. Clearly this must be his number one priority, and his lack of mentioning it in a single press release was subterfuge. Really, now that he has ordered this he has nothing to do for the next 4 years.
Or perhaps the author realizes how ludicrous the idea of the Hogan administration being behind this, instead of some of the thousands of protected employees just doing their jobs making a decision based on changing information, regardless of whom the head cheese is. I think that scares me more… stupidity isn’t nearly as scary as intentional character assassination.
Of course this happened under O’Malley: throw out all the trash with the incumbent, gets the pressure off the newly-elected. HowEVER: this did happen on Hogan’s watch. He certainly knew it was happening, or else his transition team gave him deniability – I had NO idea about the Harford Co WalMart, shocked, I say SHOCKED! He was foolish to think it wouldn’t bite him in the a$$. Or…..perhaps he calculated that it wouldn’t matter to him in the long run. So…who got paid off at the SHA and beyond, how much did they get (hope they didn’t sell themselves too cheaply), and why would we ever trust SHA again to speak with common sense on the DAC? This was the first time in MANY years that the SHA vetoed ANY project coming through DAC. Turns out the veto was pretend.
I’m not convinced Hogan had a hand in things and I’m totally open to “coincidence” theory. This is partly because my experience working with government officials leads me to believe there’s a lot less conspiracy involved than the general public often thinks.
However, I find it extremely coincidental, yes, and I find it very plausible that someone else related to Hogan being Governor (other staff, appointees, etc) could have easily handled the whole thing, possibly without even a whisper from Hogan himself.
Because if you think that every decision is made by Hogan, you’re naive. If you think that Hogan’s work as Governor didn’t start until 1/21, you’re naive. And if you think there isn’t sufficient lobbying power from Walmart to make that happen with a “business friendly” administration, you’re amazingly naive.
The real question, and what you rightfully mention, is on what basis would an everyday non-appointed State employee reverse that decision? Why hasn’t that been made public already? What about the details of some meeting that might have been held with Walmart officials that could have influenced the decision? Maybe it didn’t?
Point is, we have no idea. Let’s see when the details come out.
What an asshole, I supported this bafoon an voted for him….I’m from Bel Air an the traffic is bad as it sits…. Mr.Hogan just ruined any chance of harford county supporting him again and it was one county where he cleaned up shop.
Wait a second…are you suggesting that a politician will say one thing just to get elected, then turn around and do another thing???