The Dagger Debate 2008: Now We Know The Candidates - Tell Us What You Think
Written by Steve · Filed Under At Large, The World
August 29, 2008 | Email this post
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McCain/Palin vs. Obama/Biden
While the announcement by Senator John McCain introducing Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate puts to rest the speculation of the selection, it sure opens up a new battleground full of interesting scenarios. We are asking readers of The Dagger to share their opinions, in a civil manner of course, on the following questions, as well as on all the other issues facing the candidates.
Will McCain continue to attack Obama on his lack of experience after selecting a VP candidate who has only been governor for two years?
Will any boost that my have come from Senator Biden’s son going to Iraq be neutralized by Palin’s oldest son going first (or the same time)?
Will Palin be able to hold her own in debates on national issues since she is not a DC insider?
Will the party that has championed women’s rights be able to not sound hypocritical when attacking Palin’s credentials?
What other interesting scenarios can you see popping up as we head towards Novemeber?
Here are a couple of trends I am seeing in online discussions since the Palin pick was announced…
The right is thrilled with the concept of stealing Hillary voters with this selection. I can see a small number crossing over, but do they really think it will make a difference?
A disturbing trend I have been reading (and mind you, online personalities tend to lean to the extreme when talking politics) is the pro-choice supporters bashing Palin for not aborting her 4 month old with Down’s Syndrome after genetic screening revealed the condition. Isn’t the second part of the phrase “choice”?
Palin was obviously a pick to curry favor with the dissaffected Hillary voters. Already reading wire stories bemoaning her lack of experience. At least she was Chief Exec of something, unlike the #1 on the Dem ticket…
Sure a heck of a sight easier to look at than Dick Cheney (MILF factor 10, Mr Sulu!)
This is a terrific choice by John McCain. I’ll stick to the questions for now:
1) Yes. The experience needed to be President and to be Vice President are leagues apart. Additionally, Palin has executive experience and has more highlight-reel, actual impact to the public accomplishments than Obama.
2) Someone serving in Iraq deserves thanks, regardless of any of the rest of this. I don’t think either campaign loses anything.
3) Palin will be excellent. She is a great speaker. She beat two previous governor’s to become the current governor of Alaska, so she can more than hold her own against the establishment. She has the executive experience to bring to the debate. She will win over Biden on several national issues–earmarks, changing Washington, energy policy, and the environment. She’s highly intelligent and will learn foreign policy quickly from John McCain, and will be able to hold her own on foreign policy with talk of American pride and the military.
4) Don’t take Woman’s Suffrage away from the Republicans. Republicans have done a great deal for women rights.
Palin will pick up a few more Hilary supporters, but that has little to do with it. She brings Alaska, which means she adds more than most VPs, and more than Biden.
She also renews the reform debate, as McCain-Palin have two reformers, and Obama-Biden only has one pretender. I still haven’t seen Obama say anything that would actually be a change…deficit spending, penalizing success, saying we won’t attack McCain in a speech 50% about attacking McCain… he does actually believe that he and the government are “my brother’s keeper,” which is a change toward socialism, but that’s the scariest kind of change I’ve heard, and is an extension of the wrong road we’re on (not change).
Palin brings reform with her ethics remodeling, staunch opposition to earmarks, opposition to runaway spending, and actual work to decrease waste.
Palin has actually done things to improve our energy situation. Obama says the impossible, that he can make the US independent of foreign oil in ten years. Oh wait, he changed his message, now it’s just independent of Middle East oil. And now he’s going to bring the car manufacturing jobs back to America at the same time. Impossible promises he makes and retracts…same old politics.
As a woman, I guess I’m supposed to fall in and vote for McCain because he picked a woman? Oh wait, I just saw a bright shiny object and got distracted. You know I’m a woman. I can’t concentrate for too long.
And also, I’m encouraged that she has family values. She worked to get her ex-brother-in-law fired while he was embroiled in a custody battle with her sister.
I don’t care what political party she’s from…….Come on guys…just say it…..SHE’S HOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well as always, the GOP is always one step ahead of the Democrats!
Steve, just curious — do you have any links to those sites? Just like to see what they’re saying.
The Palin pick out-Obamas Obama: Washington outsider? Alaska is about as far out as you can get
Change Agent? Palin is a whistleblower who told Congress to take back their pork-barrel bridge to nowhere.
Understanding Regular Americans? She’s a working mom with 5 kids, one of whom has special needs.
Plus, even though I don’t agree with the Hillary-pouters (she LOST - that doesn’t mean your party is trying to keep women down - she just LOST, it happens to men all the time) McCain is agressively going after the Hillary vote. He might even pick up support from some of us who would love to see a woman elected to high office, just not (to use Bill Clinton’s famous phrase) “THAT woman”.
Why are the conservatives so excited? Dr. Dobson says women shouldn’t work outside the home. She’s got 5 kids — who’s watching them? I can’t believe Focus on the Family approves this pick.
undecided, I was checking out the huffington post and the baltimore sun’s forums.
Reasons why it was stupid for McCain to pick Palin:
1.) She is in her first term as Alaska’s Governor. Can you say no experience?
2.) Palin is a relative nobody. Everyone who hears her name says: “who?” The VP slot should bring in someone that at least 10 people outside of the home state should have heard of.
3.) Alaska has 3 electoral votes. This is the exact amount of votes Biden will draw from Delaware. McCain should have been smarter than that.
I know he is trying to get the female vote in the wake of the Hillary hysteria, but guess what, Republicans are more prejudice against women than African Americans. This could backfire on McCain big time.
Well at least we know where she stands on the 2nd Amendment.
That always helps!
I gotta say I am not convinced this was a smart move for McCain. Yes she does bring a freshness, maybe even naivety to the race which is refreshing, and she has a great presentation. But she does lack in experience and foreign policy insight. I think conservatives are open to a woman VP or President, but one with a bit more experience.
She has a history of bucking the system and fighting the “good ol boys club”, so maybe she will help McCain.
I can’t help but remember though that Ehrlich too picked a semi unknown female for his running mate..I hope this one turns out better for McCain.
You have to admire her for what she has done for Alaska in just a few years.
Time will tell.
As the President of the Senate VP Palin can actually do good when it comes to drilling in Alaska.
Obama/ Biden equals a President with no real “CEO” experience/ VP is long time political insider with experience
McCain/ Palin equals a President with long time political insider with command experience/ VP with limited BUT at least she has some “CEO” experience.
The fact that both potential VPs have a son in Iraq is a draw. I actually thinbk that the race and gender on the tickets is pretty much a draw too.
The bottom line will be what does middle America want, the independants, a president that preaches socialist rhetoric or a president that is a RINO and can be classified as a moderate conservative.
My boiling question would be to Obama: How can you say you are for the American worker, for jobs for American workers who want them, and support tax breaks for American companies that hire American workers when you won’t discuss getting tough on illegal immigration and are in a political party that embraces the illegals and the illegal vote.
I of course wish to offer the same basic question to McCain and would expect an answer on the point of using our military to patrol our borders as many other countries do.
How come nobody ever talks about how HOT Barack is?
Dumb move on McCain’s part. I too, think this will back fire.
Experience is about a lot more than time in office. You could have a 20 year career and still not really have any experience with the job. Experience is about what you learn and what you can accomplish, and by that Palin does have considerable experience. She’s accomplished more as governor in 2 years than most do in 8. O’Malley had the experience of being Mayor of Baltimore before being governor, but that time on the job doesn’t seemed to have helped his popularity ratings. Palin’s are high because she actually accomplishes positive things, and that’s what you want.
She has answers for reform, ethics, and change; she has answers for energy and the environment; she has answers for government spending, growth, bloated budgets, and putting money where it should be; and she has answers for the economy. She may not have the foreign policy experience, but she’s the VP candidate, not the headliner, and the headliner of her ticket has more foreign policy experience than any candidate since ambassadors became president.
Unknown’s are better VP candidates than former contenders. McCain is not a RINO– he’s a fiscal conservative, and that’s what we need.
This election is now about government reform and fiscal conservatism on one side and the belief that the government has to make us our brother’s keepers on the other.
Didn’t the guy who’s in the white house now run on fiscal conservatism? Why is taking care of people such a negative? I guess that’s why they’ve dropped the entire “compassionate conservatism” mantra.
Obama wants to talk about immigration, and go after the businesses which are hiring these illegals. If businesses weren’t hiring illegals, they wouldn’t come here. Bush never addressed outsourcing. I work for a company where many of the jobs just went to India, and now I have to work with people who are several different time zones away. And McCain wants to keep giving tax breaks to the companies that “offshore.”
One of the speakers last night lost his job of 31 years when his job moved overseas. Now he’s got a job working in a distribution center for equipment that used to be manufactured in the United States. His name was Barney Smith and he said, we need a president who cares more about Barney Smith than Smith Barney. Trickle down economics was a failure. Unless of course, you’re one of the members of the $5 million middle class which McCain referred to.
Palin has the best kind of experience you can have and that is about 20 years being a Wife, and Mom to 5 kids. Her Husband is an Oil Worker and given her life story I think she is more in tune with the average American’s than Obama/Biden. As far as Foreign Policy goes having common sense and staying true to your core beliefs is the best thing you can have when dealing with weasels like Putin.
Besides a Woman who hunts, fishes and eats Mooseburgers is OK in my book
1st term senator, three years of that campaining for president. VS Governer of a state..an executive position.
She has given back to the people of Alaska…they receive royalties from oil via a windfall tax.
She has attacked corruption reguardless of party.
She has 18 years of govt experiance.
5 children …one with downs syndrum.
Ran a buisness..if Im not mistaken a fishing charter.
Coached sports.
Loves hockey.
Has 80 percent approval rating in her home state.
SO FAR SO GOOD !
*****special note******
this woman went from PTA to CITY COUNCIL to MAYOR (city of 9000) to GOVERNER to VP CANDIDATE. That why its so important to get involved in …and watch like a hawk…your locals. If they are bums…nip em in the bud !
Go Dagger!
Wow, Palin sounds incredible and like she’s the real deal.
I guess the only drawback is the guy she’s sharing the ticket with…
Brian…this pick may show that Mccain is capable of thinking outside the box…and willing to make bold moves as necessary.
Go Dagger !
All it shows is that McCain is desperately reactive. He had to do something to energize his lackluster campaign.
You can’t go both ways with this - either McCain wisely picked the most qualified VP he could find to help him lead the country OR he ‘thought outside the box’ by picking someone other than the most qualified in a move designed to generate interest and make him not seem so old, so white or so conservative.
If Palin was so uniquely qualified, why wasn’t her name among the serious VP contenders, or presidential contenders for that matter, from the beginning?
Brain…
Thinking outside the box does not mean he didnt pick whom he felt is the most qualified. When was the beginning , by the way, when WE started guessing who he would pick…or when he started considering who he would pick?
Reguarding serious contenders….considering she has been picked..I would hardly say she isnt a serious contender.
Go Dagger !
One of the talking heads put it best about McCains selection of Palin as his vice - president running mate. Brilliant move, McCain has locked up the all important Eskimo vote. Ah the dog days of Summer.
Dan;
You are such a wag. It’s not just the Eskimo vote (can we say Eskimo any more?) I have to cause I can’t spell IN YOU IT. She also brings the entire beauty pageant vote, and the mayor of obscure towns vote and the dog sled racer vote and a few more like it. Like Goldwater said, paraphrased, “a couple million votes here and a couple million votes there and the next thing you know it begins to look like money.”
Actually, her addition isn’t going to change either side who’s mind is made up by their party affiliation. She will bring over the “post turtle” vote, however.
What’s the post turtle vote you ask? Glad you asked. In Texas, when you drive down a country road and see a turtle sitting on a fence post, there are two things yo know: That turtle didn’t get up there by himself, and he has no idea where to go next. What you don’t know is who put him up there and more importantly WHY? Obamma strikes me as a post turtle.
In my files I found this really great quote from H.L. Mencken. It is every bit as applicable today and to both parties, by the way. Mencken says:
“Democracy is that system of government under which the people, having 35,717,342 native-born adults to choose from, including thousands who are handsome and many who are wise, pick out a Coolidge to be the head of the state. It is as if a hungry man, set before a banquet prepared by master cooks and covering a table an acre in area, should turn his back upon the feast and stay his stomach by catching and eating flies.”
I have my party fondness, pretty much the same as everyone else, and find this to be so applicable. Before the first primary in this Country for this cycle, looking at every on of the candidates on both sides, I thought that there was not one of them whom I wanted to occupy my White House.
McCain’s choice for VP is the very first person in this entire jumble who looks to be qualified and right to be President! All the rest are either political hacks or “post turtles”.
McCain said nothing about a $5 million middle class– that was one of Obama’s deliberate lie attacks in his speech where he said he wouldn’t attack McCain and run a different kind of campaign.
McCain was asked what he considered was needed to be “truly rich.” He said $5 million. At what point are you rich to the point when you no longer need to work or worry about money? $5 million is a pretty good number. Someone make $150,000 a year isn’t “truly rich;” they still have to work. His point was that at $5 million, a person could do whatever they wanted and forget about the realities everyone else has to deal with. You’re still out of the middle class at far less than that, but you’re not worry free.
Making fun of Palin’s background and experience misses the point. You can spend a lot of time in government and do absolutely nothing (fill in your favorite example here). But Palin has used that time to clean house and improve government. Wouldn’t it be great if she could do the same in Washington?
I love the fact that Palin is a PTA mom who took on corruption and waste, even when she found it in her own party. She wasn’t intimidated by the power structure, she fought for what she thought was right until she got results. My experience with a lot of PTA moms over the years tells me it’s a mistake to underestimate one who is determined to get things done!
Palin is a high risk hail mary choice, and an attempt to woo women, youth, and hard core conservatives. High risk, but in my opinion the best choice McCain could have made.
Still, at the end of the day she has zero foreign policy experience. Repubs will say, wait a minute, Obama has zero foreign policy experience as well. To that I say, I’ve said it many times before and I’ll say it again: Obama showed the best foreign policy judgement of any major politician when he said from the beginning that going into Iraq was a mistake; he said early on we’ve got to get ourselves out of Iraq (and now Bush & McCain & **Iraq** agree), he said we should have focused those Iraq resources in Afghanistan and gotten Bin Laden. In addition, Obama picked Biden as his VP; Biden has tremendous foreign policy experience and has significant good relationships with foreign leaders around the globe. All of that refutes claim that “Obama has no foreign policy experince” because Obama time and time again has shown better judgement in ths area than any of the so called “experienced” politicians, espec. McCain and Bush. Presumably, Pallin supports McCain’s policies which says going into Iraq was a good thing, and that we shouldn’t talk to Iran (which we are now doing — that ’s another thing Obama said early on that we should do).
Bob…
You are assuming that what is known now…flawed intelligence ect, was known then. It certainly wasn’t.
You are forgetting we Invaded Iraq after Afghanistan but the doctrine at the time was to go after the GROWING ideology that was attacking us at will…a nation less ideology … a camouflaged ideology.
I wish I could cite (but there wasn’t a dagger at the time) your comments at the time.
Now we are winding down our Iraqi operations…Yet one candidate has all but said on at least 2 occasions…he wants to enter Pakistan to get Bin laden….something we are not willing to do without a firm knowledge of where to strike. Does he know something we don’t?
Bob lets not forget that this “war” has grown its own legs. Many want out of Iraq because of what we know now and the situation now…not the situation and what was supposedly the facts in 2001, 2 and 3. In 2001, 2, and 3 he was opposing what the overwhelming majority of the country wanted based on what were the presented facts at the time.
Lets not forget …its a campaign….in the end we must live with the choice in a very real way, supreme court….justice dept…entitlements…, in a way that effects us every day, long after they are no longer in office.
Lets be clear….I support any candidate who has a proven record…ether personnel of political…regardless of party. I’ve seen many good men and women, from both parties, swept away in PARTY rhetoric and minimilized in there efforts ….or inflated in there efforts through OUT OF CONTEXT references.
There are more important core issues that must be considered than what someone thought in 2002 or what party they are in. In our last election in HdG I supported both Republicans and Democrats based upon their willingness to state for the record their core beliefs. I still stand by them….I urge all of you to soul search and vote conscious…not rhetoric and the vaudeville show known as a campaign.
The citing of obscure and out of context nonsense is nothing more than the counter productive rhetoric to which I speak.
Over…Standing by !
Brain Young
5 million in the bank allows you to have a 150,000 income from interest and bank some to offset inflation and increase the income….100,000 and 50,000 in the bank….thats pretty good to me.
So it seems that the 5 million number Brian Young cites is dead on accurate.
Go Dagger !
And yes shes Hot….(chuckle)
Go Dagger !
Sorry, a woman who is pro life can not be queen of women’s rights. If they could have it their way, McCain and Palin would demolish women’s rights by taking away our freedom of choice and our access to birth control.
Palin has said she is even against allowing abortion to those women who have been raped or victims of incest–what a traitor to her own sex! (Source: “McCain Selects Anti-Choice Sarah Palin as Running Mate,” NARAL Pro-Choice America, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=17515&id=13661-9124674-kq5zvpx&t=1)
Oh, and McCain had only met Palin once before asking her to be his VP choice–once! Sounds like a rash choice made in hopes of wining Hillary fans. Let’s hope those Hillary fans are smarter than that. (Source: “McCain met Palin once before yesterday,” MSNBC, August 29, 2008
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=21119&id=13661-9124674-kq5zvpx&t=8)
I don’t want this country to take a huge step backwards. We’ve come too far to go back to the ignorance that once was. Too many women suffered to go back. Think of your daughters and nieces and granddaughters and wives. Obama is our way forward.
ACCESS TO BIRTH CONTROLL…YOU MAKE IT SOUND LIKE IT WOULD BE SOME KIND OF BIZZARR CATHOLIC CONSPIRECEY.
GO DAGGER !
KLOH…
ABORTION…THE BIRTH CONTROLL YOU REFERR TO…IS NOT A FIRST DEFENSE AS YOU DEMAND IT BE…AND A LAZY DEFENSE ALSO.
MCCAIN HAS VERY SPECIFICLY SAID THAT LIFE AND HUMAN RIGHTS BEGIN AT CONCEPTION. WHAT BIRTH CONTROLL ALLOWS CONCEPTION? WHY IS IT SO HARD TO CONTROLL WHERE YOUR SPERM GOES, IF THERES CONCEPTION???? THIS IS NOT THE 1950′S.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BABYS…NOT CELL CLUSTERS…!!!!
GO DAGGER !
GO DAGGER !
Kloh-
When will this issue move off of the radar? Why must this be the litmus test for every candidate from POTUS to the Water and Sewer Commission Chairman? Big, Bad Bush wasn’t able to reverse Roe in his eight years. Even with Darth Cheney out there doing his bidding.
The balance on the SCOTUS was shifted with Roberts’ appointment. I don’t recall seeing tanks rolling down the street bulldozing Planned Parenthood offices.
There are 18 million other reasons why the Dems hate this pick.
Obama’s support among women should be through the roof, as it usually is for Democratic candidates. He’s a pro choice guy. If that was the bellweather, he’d be polling 80-90 percent.
They lost the war argument when the surge worked. Oil prices are dropping (Gustav bounce notwithstanding) faster than John Edward’s pants. Three dollar gas by January, anyone? Think the governor of an oil state like Alaska doesn’t have any insight when it comes to energy policy?
Palin will, as time marches toward November, prove herself to be quite capable, knowledgeable, and worthy of the VP spot.
I got so incensed at Kloghs comments I didnt even notice the links to Move on….the Goe Soroes traveling show. Geo Soroes..has the interests of Geo Soroes in mind…check his history.
Go Dagger !
Kloh, think back to civics class. Does the president have ALL of the power………….no. The democrats know this, they know how government works, but insist on using a scare tactic on the uninformed voter to swing votes. Ted Kennedy (when sober no less) told the mothers and fathers of this country that if GB was re-elected that the draft would be starting back up right away. Well GB won re-election and the draft didn’t start. Every time a republican runs for any office, Roe v. Wade comes into light. The president cannot take away Roe v. Wade with the wave of a wand, the democrats know this, but like to use the scare tactic on voters that don’t really understand government and blindly vote because the good looking guy or girl said to. SCOTUS already has a full plate.
“Obama………For Change” translates to Obama seeing that your paycheck is nothing but change after the tax increase.
That is not a scare tactic, it is a reality. A president can get tax increases or decreases simply by doing a little networking and lobbying. Favor trading gets the job done. The democrat flavor of the day is tax and spend, Obama has given his facts and figures which call for tax increases (that will break the back of middle America), and you don’t get your parties nomination by going against the tax and spend big government creed.
For those of you who read the baltimore sun.take a look at the harford section front page. Headlines read. Poverty numbers rise. one of aberdeen’s more deserveing citizens is on parade.
Convicted sex offender. no fixed address. no fixed job. too lazy to work. suffering from back pain.( Drug addiction)
Why work when it’s free!
Vet…
This is going to be a very emotional 3 months…we are at the crossroads…A crossroads where the BEST we have at our state and local level will be hamstrung if certain choices are made…the BEST consisting of both democratic and republican state and local leaders.
My opionon is that MASSIVE AND SWEEPING CHANGE is equal to driving into the ditch because the road has a few pot holes. Do we realy want to re-invent the wheel? Or just simply improve it.
I say improve it ! (dont throw the baby out with the bath water)
Go Dagger !
Richie;
When you look at the Congress, it’s awfully difficult to follow the logic of your argument. EVERYTHING is about party politics! The three most liberal/Marxist-socialist senators are in order of ranking, most to least: Obama, Kennedy and Biden. For them and the scared s…l…. voters who subscribe to their system of governance, the solution to any problem is to spend more money on it. Johnson gave us a “great society” in 1964 and we have dumped trillions into it since. I sincerely doubt that there is any real, measurable benefit to come from any of it! The solution to the Country’s problems begins by recognizing that the 100 senators and their lesser counterparts in the House, caused the problems. Now we pay them, handsomely, to find the solutions. They know several things but the key one is that the more people they have at the publicly funded trough, the more votes they can count on.
If we really want to get back to what the majority of PRODUCTIVE citizens cherish, we have to toss ALL of these clowns out. After the dust settles in November, we will still have Mikulski and Cardin, two socio-Marxists, representing us in that group who only sniffs rarefied air. We will still have Ruppersberger, who has been quoted as saying that “end game is getting reelected” and nothing more. We will still have all of the Baltimore and PG and Montgomery liberals in there. I predict that the only new House member we will get is in the first district, replacing Gilchrest who knew what is going on.
I sayy toss the baby in this case. The system is broken beyond repair!
Well Dave…
Thats the shame of it…….the ones that have sanity are overshadowed and religated to obscurity. You have to take the less destructionist route…thats the route thats in need of repair verses the route not yet there.
This is a bit of a herdy gerdy philisophical comment…but what the hell.
Thats why Im for improvement of what we have…verses CHANGE. I kinda like my country and cant imigine what we would want to change it too.
Go Dagger !
I know that there are a lot of readers here who are able to see through a load of BS. I got my hands on the following, put out by moveon.org. Please keep in mind what Richie said at #37. It’s all about George Soros, a true anti-American.
Remember thta George Soros made his money, tons of it, in a free economy. Like Kennedy, Biden et al he now wants the government to take away all of yours and spend it for you.
“Dear MoveOn member,
Yesterday was John McCain’s 72nd birthday. If elected, he’d be the oldest president ever inaugurated. And after months of slamming Barack Obama for “inexperience,” here’s who John McCain has chosen to be one heartbeat away from the presidency: a right-wing religious conservative with no foreign policy experience, who until recently was mayor of a town of 9,000 people.
Huh?
Who is Sarah Palin? Here’s some basic background:
She was elected Alaska’s governor a little over a year and a half ago. Her previous office was mayor of Wasilla, a small town outside Anchorage. She has no foreign policy experience.1
Palin is strongly anti-choice, opposing abortion even in the case of rape or incest.2
She supported right-wing extremist Pat Buchanan for president in 2000. 3
Palin thinks creationism should be taught in public schools.4
She’s doesn’t think humans are the cause of climate change.5
She’s solidly in line with John McCain’s “Big Oil first” energy policy. She’s pushed hard for more oil drilling and says renewables won’t be ready for years. She also sued the Bush administration for listing polar bears as an endangered species—she was worried it would interfere with more oil drilling in Alaska.6
How closely did John McCain vet this choice? He met Sarah Palin once at a meeting. They spoke a second time, last Sunday, when he called her about being vice-president. Then he offered her the position.7
This is information the American people need to see. Please take a moment to forward this email to your friends and family.
We also asked Alaska MoveOn members what the rest of us should know about their governor. The response was striking. Here’s a sample:
She is really just a mayor from a small town outside Anchorage who has been a governor for only 1.5 years, and has ZERO national and international experience. I shudder to think that she could be the person taking that 3AM call on the White House hotline, and the one who could potentially be charged with leading the US in the volatile international scene that exists today. —Rose M., Fairbanks, AK
She is VERY, VERY conservative, and far from perfect. She’s a hunter and fisherwoman, but votes against the environment again and again. She ran on ethics reform, but is currently under investigation for several charges involving hiring and firing of state officials. She has NO experience beyond Alaska. —Christine B., Denali Park, AK
As an Alaskan and a feminist, I am beyond words at this announcement. Palin is not a feminist, and she is not the reformer she claims to be. —Karen L., Anchorage, AK
Alaskans, collectively, are just as stunned as the rest of the nation. She is doing well running our State, but is totally inexperienced on the national level, and very much unequipped to run the nation, if it came to that. She is as far right as one can get, which has already been communicated on the news. In our office of thirty employees (dems, republicans, and nonpartisans), not one person feels she is ready for the V.P. position.—Sherry C., Anchorage, AK
She’s vehemently anti-choice and doesn’t care about protecting our natural resources, even though she has worked as a fisherman. McCain chose her to pick up the Hillary voters, but Palin is no Hillary. —Marina L., Juneau, AK
I think she’s far too inexperienced to be in this position. I’m all for a woman in the White House, but not one who hasn’t done anything to deserve it. There are far many other women who have worked their way up and have much more experience that would have been better choices. This is a patronizing decision on John McCain’s part- and insulting to females everywhere that he would assume he’ll get our vote by putting “A Woman” in that position.—Jennifer M., Anchorage, AK
So Governor Palin is a staunch anti-choice religious conservative. She’s a global warming denier who shares John McCain’s commitment to Big Oil. And she’s dramatically inexperienced.
In picking Sarah Palin, John McCain has made the religious right very happy. And he’s made a very dangerous decision for our country.
In the next few days, many Americans will be wondering what McCain’s vice-presidential choice means. Please pass this information along to your friends and family.
Thanks for all you do.
–Ilyse, Noah, Justin, Karin and the rest of the team”
that was put out by move on, but all the numbers there in the text are citations. I know that many of them are from “liberal groups,” but you can find citations from other sources as well.
Also, to Dell, the Republicans put abortion back on the table when they picked her. Why else would they pick her except to bring back evangelical voters who weren’t happy with McCain? To think that women who voted for Hillary are going to vote for McCain just because she is a woman is insulting to women.
Palin won the election in Alaska with 110,000 votes. And she was running against a very, very unpopular candidate. She won her first election with less than 7,000. I don’t know what else McCain would be thinking that she could add to the ticket except the pro-life vote. I don’t think those 110,000 voters in Alaska were in any doubt before that.
Also, my paycheck continues to go down and has every year in the last 4 years thanks to increasing healthcare costs. I’d like to know where everyone works who’s responded here because everyone’s obviously in a higher tax bracket! ExxonMobil maybe?
It’s important to note that coming from a pro oil drilling stance, Palin will not be likely to even want to consider alternative fuel sources, which is crucial for humanity’s survival right now. McCain has no intent to do so either. We are not progressing fast enough on this front. And with McCain/Palin in office, we stay the same and risk being bankrupted by high gas prices when they inevitably shoot through the roof again as well as war over resources (which to some extent is what is going on with Russia right now).
Great response! Now if you could actually think in logical measures yo could go somewhere. My paycheck has increased by about 7% every year, even while Clinton was in office. My health insurance has remained constant as well. I am self employed and have taken control of my own destiny. If I have a bad year it”s because I failed. If I have a good year it’s because I worked efficiently. I don’t need first dollar health insurance and am willing to pay a much larger chunk of the cost of care. That kind of insurance seldom changes in price. Now I could work for a government or a large company and be completely at the mercy of someone else’s ability or lack thereof. People working for Under Armour enjoy increasing pay and constant cost for benefits. At the same time people working for GM are screaming bloody murder.
As far as the right to life or death or perhaps the pro life or pro death argument is another factor entirely. What does it have to do with the ability of a leader to lead? Bra burning feminists will never get it! The National Association of Gals (NAG) will also never get it. Scream at the government if your life sucks if yo wish. Me - I’ll take responsibility for myself, thanks very much!
“Bra burning feminists will never get it! ”
“Bra burning feminists”?
What century are you living in?
Really. “Bra burning feminists”. It’s almost cute, like McCain using “The Google”.
Then you’re just the most awesome person in the world for taking control of your life. Good job. I was speaking about the country as a whole being bankrupted. But you also need to think that people who get laid off may not have nearly as many options as you or I do. Some people have specialized in just one area, and those jobs are going overseas. They can’t just become self employed. Your simplification of life, comparing your life to everyone else’s shows a lack of perspective. Every baby born is not Dave Yensan.
Carlin, to be fair, I did some checking on Palin’s alternative energy plans. While she is a fan of oil, I did find this from her State of the State address this year:
“We need a comprehensive approach to long-term energy plans, not just fiscal “shots-in-the-arm.” I’m appointing an Energy Coordinator, to activate a statewide Energy Plan. We’ll use earnings from a $250 million “Renewable Energy Fund” for alternative projects, like hydro, wind, geothermal, and biomass. These projects cannot even flirt with snake-oil science–they will be real, doable, and economic. Alaska’s plan can lead America toward energy security and a cleaner, safer world.”
HMMM..” safer world”(post 49)…sounds like she is atuned with what seems to be the issue of our day….energy and its geopolitical ramifications.
So much for the question of her understanding of foreign affaires.
Go Dagger
Well as long as we are being fair, here’s another alternative energy plan from a State of the Union.
“Keeping America competitive requires affordable energy. And here we have a serious problem: America is addicted to oil, which is often imported from unstable parts of the world.
The best way to break this addiction is through technology. Since 2001, we have spent nearly $10 billion to develop cleaner, cheaper and more reliable alternative energy sources. And we are on the threshold of incredible advances.
So tonight I announce the Advanced Energy Initiative — a 22 percent increase in clean-energy research at the Department of Energy to push for breakthroughs in two vital areas. To change how we power our homes and offices, we will invest more in zero-emission coal-fired plants; revolutionary solar and wind technologies; and clean, safe nuclear energy.
We must also change how we power our automobiles.
We will increase our research in better batteries for hybrid and electric cars and in pollution-free cars that run on hydrogen.
We will also fund additional research in cutting-edge methods of producing ethanol, not just from corn but from wood chips and stalks or switch grass.
Our goal is to make this new kind of ethanol practical and competitive within six years.’
Thats from George Bush. In motherfucking January of motherfucking 2006. Anyone believe any of that shit? Anyone seen any ethanol gas stations around? Hydrogen?
Yeah, Palin’s going to be a real alternative energy advocate. Sure.
Let’s face it.we are stuck with who we get. nothing has been changed’ except tax’s and general increase in every thing on the market. the green house affect was brought to our attention as early as 1930 nothing was done the japanese were buying our scrap metal as early as 1930 nothing was done.
we have one main refinery. which seem’s to injoy every hurricane that’s comes this way. we have a two front war with no hope of winning. hopefully we can turn tail and gracefully leave. and yet every presidential hopefull is trying to win the heart and minds of the people.
With promise’s they can’t keep. but at least we can make a choice.
antelope - without resorting to your trashmouth language, I suppose we should vote Obama and wait for his energy czar Algore to swoop in with his massively oversized carbon footprint and save the day? You seem to think that we should just blindly believe what the Dems say? Hahahahaha!
RichieC, shall I go into how liberating birth control is? How great it is to just enjoy the sex without having to worry about pregnancy? What are you people, puritans? What century are we living in? I’m not ashamed to say that because you’re right, this is not the 1950s!
And, RichieC, it’s not just about that, it’s also about those poor women who are used and abused and impregnated by men who think they can have their way–should those female victims of rape and incest be forced to give birth? Should those children be forced to be unloved in the world–a world that can barely feed them and cloth them and give them proper education?
As for RWringer, I’m fully aware that the President doesn’t have ALL the power, but he DOES get to chose the people who sit on the Supreme Court which is arguably the most powerful of positions. He can appoint judges to over turn laws and he has the power to veto. There are a number of other arguments I could make about presidential power in other areas of issue, but I’ll save my breath since you claim to remember civics class very well.
In the end, it is about a person’s values and sense of trust–I do not trust Palin or McCain and I don’t believe in their values–their values are thin and neglectful of others. Thank goodness there’s a new generation here to solve that problem.
I offered you my informative opinion earlier. In response I received non-informative reticule. Sad to see so many ignorant readers out there who enjoy nothing more than blasting others.
Kloh….
Lets face it…everyone loves good sex…its better than bad sex! So…go on the pill..get a vesectimey…tie your tubes…use a trojan….use an IUD….ABORTION IS NOT BIRTH CONTROLL.
Im very aware of abusers , the results of incest, and rape, and the other types of unwanted pregnancey. This abortion issue is not our only issue and futher…its not an absolute ether way.
Spare me the lecture….Ive heard it all before…You have no Monopoly on that information.
Now kloh…..why is it you seem to think that that a guy who says he doesnt know when life gets human rights is better on this issue than a guy that at least can answer the question?
Kloh..they are not dictaters…the same people you seem to think are gonna break out the coat hangers are the very ones protecting your right to protest about it…protecting your free speech by putting conservitive supremes in. They are the ones protecting the law of the land, (at this time roe is law), from being arbitrilerly dismissed through goofy activist benches.
Kloh sit back and look at actions…not personall beleifs. In many cases they are not the same…as a matter of law.
Go Dagger !
Antelope…..
Its 2008…two years into a six year target.
Go Dagger !
History lesson (Here’s to both Conservatives and Liberals - You Know Who You Are!)
For those of you who slept through World History 101 here is a condensed version.
Humans originally existed as members of small bands of nomadic hunters/gatherers. They lived on deer in the mountains during the summer and would go to the coast and live on fish and lobster in the winter.
The two most important events in all of history were:
1. The invention of beer, and
2. The invention of the wheel. The wheel was invented to get man to the beer, and the beer to the man. These facts formed the foundation of modern civilization and together were the catalyst for the splitting of humanity into two distinct subgroups:
1. Liberals
2. Conservatives.
Once beer was discovered, it required grain and that was the beginning of agriculture. Neither the glass bottle nor aluminum can were invented yet, so while our early humans were sitting around waiting for them to be invented, they just stayed close to the brewery. That’s how villages were formed.
Some men spent their days tracking and killing animals to BBQ at night while they were drinking beer. This was the beginning of what is known as the Conservative movement.
Other men who were weaker and less skilled at hunting learned to live off the conservatives by showing up for the nightly BBQ’s and doing t he sewing, fetching, and hair dressing. This was the beginning of the Liberal movement.
Some noteworthy liberal achievements include the domestication of cats, the invention of group therapy and group hugs, the evolution of the Hollywood actor, and the concept of Democratic voting to decide how to divide all the meat and beer that conservatives provided.
Over the years, Conservatives came to be symbolized by the largest, most powerful land animal on earth, the elephant.
Liberals are symbolized by the jackass.
Modern liberals like imported beer (with lime added), but most prefer white wine or imported bottled water. They eat raw fish but like their beef well done. Sushi, tofu, and French foods are standard liberal fare. Another interesting evolutionary side note: most liberal women have higher
testosterone levels than their men. Most social workers, personal injury attorneys, journalists, dreamers in Hollywood and group therapists are liberals.
Conservatives drink domestic beer. They eat red meat and still provide for their women. Conservatives are big-game hunters, rodeo cowboys, firemen, lumberjacks, construction workers, medical doctors, police officers, corporate executives, athletes, Marines, and generally anyone who works productively. Conservatives who own companies hire other conservatives who
want to work for a living.
Liberals produce little or nothing. They like to govern the producers and decide what to do with the production. Liberals believe Europeans are more enlightened than Americans. That is why most of the liberals remained in Europe when conservatives were coming to America. They crept in after the Wild West was tamed and created a business of trying to get more for nothing. Some of these liberal men eventually evolved into women. The rest became known as girlie-men.
(Please continue scrolling down).
Here ends today’s lesson in world history.
It should be noted that a liberal (you know who you are) may have a momentary urge to angrily respond to the above to defend their untenable position.
A conservative will simply laugh and be so convinced of the absolute truth of this history that it will be forwarded immediately to other true believers, and to more liberals … just to tick them off.
CHUCKLE
McCain is Bush’s clone.Palin is far to the right of McCain. Can the USA handle four more years of mistakes based on the Bush “philosophy of democracy”? I think not!
Casper
Antelope;
Yup bra burning feminists. I’m into the 21st but these chicks are still stuck crying the same song and wailing for the same “rights.” By the by rights guaranteed by the constitution say nothing about a woman’s right to have an abortion on demand. That is not a right but a perversion by a supremely screwed up supreme court.
Kloh: The Supreme Court justices only get replaced when they die or retire/ resign. They hear cases that make the way through the system, they do not pick a case like Roe v. Wade and say let’s revisit this and change something. If you listen to the Great Kennedy (when he’s sober) he’d have the scared voters thinking the Supreme Court decides to pick any law and waves a magic wand and changes it. Speaking of Kennedy and the rest of the liberal left that think Chavez is a golden boy…….he’s a dictator and the US gets the majority of it’s oil from this dictator. If the US drilled in the US in one little dot on the whole state of Alaska the deposits there are predicted to satisfy all US consumption at the current rate for the next 50 years. Couple that with some outside oil along with research & development with fuels other than fossil fuel and the US is way ahead of the game. All I heard was that Iraq was a war over oil……….well the liberals were wrong on that one, if it was the US would be an occupying force and George W would be wearing a cowboy hat to OPEC meetings.
Politics are a great source of debate and a simple point can get disected into many small parts and the truth gets twisted to suit the arguement. It’s tough to twist facts, but politicians try, and the scared voter or the uninformed voter are the prey.
I find it amazing that the idea of super delegates was invented by the Big Dem Machine to ensure that the party choice would get in as opposed to the voters choice…..well Hillary didn’t make the cut and now that ship has sailed. How dare John McCain pick a woman, that was reserved for the Dems! (personally I would have liked to have seen Ron Paul as the VP). I also find it pretty amazing that Obama is the best that the Dems can put up, but we all know that he wasn’t the Big Dem Machine choice was he? I’ll give the man credit, he can write and deliver a speech, but that’s all that was, a speech made to unify, to excite, to get the ball rolling. The speech did just that for his party. Nothing personal but I want a leader that can walk the walk not just talk the talk and I’m afraid to say that Obama may just be another Jimmy Carter and we know how “great” of a job he did!
To me, selection of leadership must be based on demonstrated soundness of the candidates’ judgement. It is as simple as that. Obama showed good judgement in selecting a highly qualified VP. A man with unquestionable experience who can provide wise council and complements the team. I am comfortable with Biden being a heartbeat away from commander in chief in these troubled times.
I just don’t see McCain’s choice of Palin as good judgement. She may be a lovely person but she brings very little to the team. She doesn’t have the experience to be Vice-President. Not in this day and age. We are facing serious problems that will require a strong Executive branch. We need to know that if the POTUS is focused on a foreign policy issue we can count on the V.P. to provide coherent advice to him or her.
She’s on the ticket because she’s a fundamental Christian who can shore up that base, and because she’s female to attract the mythological disaffected Clinton voter who only cares about the candidate’s gender and not her qualifications or positions on the issues.
I believe that John McCain had much better alternative choices. He could have chosen Tom Ridge,Condi Rice, Elizabeth Dole,C.T.Whitman or a host of better qualified candidates. Instead, he went with Rush Limbaugh and the right wing’s choice.
What John McCain has proven with this choice is that John McCain is a prisoner of the right wing, not a maverick. And so I question his judgement. Is picking a less qualified person putting our country first-or putting the campaign first? I am not comfortable with a VP with Palin’s qualifications being a heartbeat away from commander in chief- especially considering McCain’s age and health risks.
I also have to question Mrs. Palin’s judgement. Taking an 11 hour commercial flight while in premature labor is a poor choice. Not informing the flight crew is reckless and dangerous- especially as a high risk pregnancy and a fifth delivery.
It is all about judgement- it’s as simple as that.
Curious ..
It was an 8 hour flight and no policies were broken…no problems encountered.
Go Dagger !
Curious: If you like socialists then you should be happy with an Obama/ Biden ticket. If you think health insurance is expensive now wait until it’s free. Forget the 10th Amendment let the government run our schools. Leave those borders wide open so that more Americans can lose jobs to ILLEGAL workers. Best of all, let’s raise the tax on those that were smart enough to make an investment or two instead of buying 22″ rims for their car.
I was thinking, how many liberals gave back their stimulus checks that the big bad republican government gave them?
Richie- Perhaps not- but still poor judgement and dangerous…
Airlines and pregnancy notification
You can fly on commercial airlines without restriction during your first and second trimesters, but during your third trimester you may run into some restrictions.
Airlines rely on an “honor policy” when it comes to enforcement, so it’s the passenger’s decision to notify agents that she’s expecting and how far along she is. Ticket agents won’t mention travel restrictions unless asked, so inquire about them when you book your seat.
All airlines recommend you consult your physician before travel at any time during pregnancy. Play it safe by getting a “permission-to-travel” letter from your doctor. You won’t — and shouldn’t — get one if your pregnancy is considered high-risk.
RWinger- I was not debating the issues - I am sure,from your catastrophizing, that it would be a useless endeavor. I was commenting on the judgement of the candidates as reflected in their choice of running mates. If that does not matter to you-so be it. It happens to matter to me, and may to other voters.
Curious….
Dangourous in your eyes …or dangourous in the eyes of airline execs and regulaters who see irresponsible people who can barley controll their basic urges and act irresponsibily. An example is the speed limits…..they are necessary because many outdrive their abilities.
In her case her non problimetic pregnancey …her 5th…was very predictable. I realy dont see a problem. I do see you saying…we will make decisions for you…big brother will coddle you…you need not think. You seem to be dismayed that somone took personal responsibility. Personal responsibility vs coddeling…seems to be the real issue.
Go Dagger !
Go Dagger !
All pregnancies of women past age 35 are considered high risk. Her water had broken, She was in labor. Every delivery, after the first , comes more and more quickly. Her baby was at risk- Downs babies are particularly prone to heart defects and birth complications. I cannot find an airfare from Texas to Alaska that takes less than 9hrs and 40min. Her choice was irresponsible. Ask any OBGYN. Ask any woman who has given birth.
Following your logic, there should be no rules or laws. We should just depend on everyone’s personal responsibility. Big Brother is just ” coddling” us with all those pesky rules and laws…
Curious…
You go to 60…by passing 10,20,30,40,and 50. There are acceptable levels of risk and acceptable levelas of personal decisions that incurr risk.
You advocate no personel decisions…just big brother herding you along….I say that personel decision on what is acceptable to you in your condition and situation is acceptable.
This does no in any way say there is no need for laws.
It does say babysitters are not needed.
Go Dagger !
Daily Kos…chuckle
You misinterpret me, my friend. I have never said that there is no room for personal decisions. People can choose to be responsible or irresponsible in many situations. We are free in this country to endanger ourselves and others in a multitude of ways. Our unfettered personal decisions truly reflect the quality of our judgement. There are many very good reasons- that I have listed here- why a decision for a woman to fly in Mrs. Palin’s condition is an irresponsible and risky one. Any Dr will tell you that. Can you ignore your Dr.’s highly educated serious advice? Of course you can! People make irresponsible choices all the time. Sometimes they get lucky. Sometimes not. It was definitely her personal decision. It is a surprising one, considering her professed value of the unborn. And it speaks volumes about her judgement.
Curious….
You have listed many valid reasons a woman may not want to fly if they applie to her..that Ill agree…but the forgone conclusion that the flight in question was dangourous is not sticking.
Go Dagger
Im going to look for a new place to have coffee this morn sept 1 08…mabey Java.
Nor is anything else that curious has to say. Curious is willing to spew the Soros line, far and wide. Richie I’m glad to see that some can still think and make up their minds based on logic and intelligence. The Dem party line is just as much worn out as the Repub line. Think! Use logic! Maybe the younger folk have accepted the public school goal of teaching what to think, not how to think.
Yes Dave…and it scares the entrenched on both sides.
Go Dagger !
curious…
I appreciate the MY FRIEND comment.
Go Dagger !
Soros 101
George Soros born August 12, 1930, in Budapest, Hungary. Currently, Soros is chairman of Soros Fund Management and the Open Society Institute and is also a former member of the Board of Directors of the Council on Foreign Relations. Soros claims his support for the Solidarity labor movement in Poland, as well as the Czechoslovak human rights organization Charter, contributed to ending Soviet Union political dominance in those countries. His funding and organization of Georgia’s Rose Revolution was considered by Russian and Western observers to have been crucial to its success.
In the United States, he is known for having donated large sums of money in a failed effort to defeat President George W. Bush’s bid for re-election in 2004. On BookTV, November 12, 2007, he said that he supports Barack Obama.
Soros is famously known for “breaking the Bank of England” on Black Wednesday in 1992. With an estimated current net worth of around $9 billion, he is ranked by Forbes as the 97th-richest person in the world. Paul Volker said “George Soros has made his mark as an enormously successful speculator, wise enough to largely withdraw when still way ahead of the game. The bulk of his enormous winnings is now devoted to encouraging transitional and emerging nations to become ‘open societies,’ open not only in the sense of freedom of commerce but - more important - tolerant of new ideas and different modes of thinking and behavior.”
Soros is know for using his wealth to manipulate political events and policeys to include the desatbilization of governments.
In 1988, he was asked to join a takeover attempt of the French bank Société Générale. He declined to participate in the bid but did later buy a number of shares in the company. French authorities began an investigation in 1989, and in 2002 a French court ruled that it was insider trading as defined under French securities laws and fined him $2 million, which was the amount that he made using the insider information.
Punitive damages were not sought because of the delay in bringing the case to trial. Soros denied any wrongdoing and said news of the takeover was public knowledge.
His insider trading conviction was upheld by the highest court in France on June 14, 2006. In December, 2006 he appealed to the European Court of Human Rights, claiming that the 14 year delay in bringing the case to trial precluded a fair hearing.
In an interview with The Washington Post on November 11, 2003, Soros said that removing President George W. Bush from office was the “central focus of my life” and “a matter of life and death.”
Soros gave $3 million to the Center for American Progress, committed $5 million to MOVEON, while he and his friend Peter Lewis each gave America Coming Together $10 million. (All were groups that worked to support Democrats in the 2004 election.) On September 28, 2004 he dedicated more money to the campaign and kicked off his own multi-state tour with a speech: Why We Must Not Re-elect President Bush delivered at the National Press Club in Washington, DC.
Soros has funded worldwide efforts to promote Drug liberalization. In 2008, Soros funded a ballot measure in the state of Massachusetts to decriminalize marijuana possession. Of the $429,000 raised to promote the measure, Soros donated $400,000. Soros has also funded similar measures in California, Alaska, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Nevada and Maine. Among the drug decrim groups that have received funding from Soros are the Lindesmith Center and Drug Policy Foundation.
Directly and through his organization Open Society Institute (OSI), he has funded various gun control organizations.
At a Jewish forum in New York City, Soros partially attributed a recent resurgence of antisemitism to the policies of Israel and the United States.
In an editorial in September 2007, Investor’s Business Daily criticized Soros for funding organizations such as MoveOn.org and has claimed that Soros is not transparent in the way he gives away his money. The newspaper said: “The irony here is that Soros claims to be an advocate of an ‘open society.’ His OSI does just the legal minimum to disclose its activities. IBD said that Soros’ giving cannot be considered philanthropy to the extent that it is political activism.
In April 2008, Soros hosted an event in his apartment that had guests such as David Brock of the self-described progressive watchdog group Media Matters and liberal commentator Paul Begala. Brock described that the plan intends to raise $40 million to run political advertisements against the presumptive Republican nominee, Senator John McCain, through a group called The Fund for America and Progressive Media, whose key backer, according to politico.com, is Soros.
Go Dagger !
Soros…aka …Puppet Master !
Go Dagger !
OR: “Nor is anything else that [Dave Yensen] has to say. [Yensen] is willing to spew the [Neo conservative] line, far and wide. [Curius} I’m glad to see that some can still think and make up their minds based on logic and intelligence. The [Rep] party line is just as much worn out as the [Dem] line. Think! Use logic! Maybe the younger folk have accepted the public school goal of teaching [how] to think, not [what ]to think.”
How ridiculous is that? It begs the question from both sides.
I could just as well assert ” Cheney-Rove…aka… puppetmasters!”
Do these responses address the question of candidate responsibility and judgement? I believe that Mssrs. Rove, Cheney and Soros have a right in our society to fund, back, and to work for what they hold dear and consider to be right. Personal attacks and disrespect for individual rights does nothing to advance one’s aurguments.
You have every right to believe that Mrs. Palin’s decision to take a 11 hour flight while leaking amniotic fluid in her fifth labor with an at risk pregnancy was good judgement. You also can believe that she was chosen because she was the best qualified Republican person to be a heartbeat away from the presidency. And you can “think” that her choice shows excellent judgement on the part of John McCain.
I wholeheartedly disagree- and my disagreement is not an indicator of manipulation, lack of thought, or poor logic (aka stupidity) - any more than yours is. Denigrating your opponent’s intelligence is the basest form of aurgument.
Curious….
This is denigrating?
“curious…
I appreciate the MY FRIEND comment”
Futher…..rove…hardly a puppet master….more a disgraced counsil.
Let me give you a piece of advice if I may. Rush. Ann, Mike, Shawn, and others are whats called ENTERTAINMENT. They cater to the dem side of the spectrum…they incite a reaction…it sells advertising…they are not representivitive of rank and file conservitives.
Go Dagger !
Sorry Richie! I was not referring to you in that response. I am fully aware that there are ” entertainers” on both sides whose purposes are to stir the pot. And I do believe that there are many reasonable , thoughtful, intelligent conservatives and progressives who regard this election very seriously. I know many- on both sides of the philosophical divide- who have grave reservations- based on facts- regarding the selection of Mrs. Palin. I frankly hope that Senator McCain gets an opportunity for a ” do-over” (which is not unprecedented - if you recall the Thomas Eagleton candidacy). It would go a long way to making me more comfortable with a potential McCain presidency.
Family values … HERE we COME!!
This is what McCain gets for not vetting someone that well (McCain only met her once). Further demonstrates McCain’s poor decision making…
Palin says 17-year-old daughter is pregnant
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_daughter
Interesting
This sounds more like the bad decisions of a kid…now we will see the rest of the story. Was this with held? Was there deception? We shall see.
Go Dagger !
Hey….it’s TOGHER IN ALASKA! That goes for everyone!
wow, this is an embarrassment. This is why you take months to vett the vp candidates. Will it have an impact of the way she might govern? Not really. But it hurts credibility, and perception is everything. The leftist media and blogs are only going to dig deeper.
If the media can find something like this so easily, why didn’t McCain’s campaign?
on the other hand, the dems better be careful in thier attacks, especially when focusing on children of a candidate. this could work against them…
According to the reports this WAS disclosed to Mccain and considered private and if it came out so be it. I have no problem with it.
Go Dagger !
From AP
“Senator McCain’s view is this is a private family matter. As parents, (the Palins) love their daughter unconditionally and are going to support their daughter,” said McCain spokesman Steve Schmidt.
“Life happens,” he said.
“An American family,” added Salter.
The advisers said Palin told them about the pregnancy during lengthy discussions about her background. At several points during the discussions, McCain’s team warned Palin that the scrutiny into her private life would be intense and that there was nothing she could do to prepare for it.
Prominent religious conservatives, many of whom have been lukewarm toward McCain’s candidacy, predicted that Palin’s daughter’s pregnancy would not diminish conservative Christian enthusiasm over the vice presidential hopeful.
“I think it’s a very private matter,” said Roberta Combs, president of the Christian Coalition of America. “It’s a matter that should stay in the family and they have to work through it together. My prayers go out to them.”
Added Combs: “We’re excited about the governor and think she’s going to do well.”
Go Dagger !
Everyone should lay off the young woman. It is not at all pertinent to the issues at hand.
Yes curious…
Agreed…its a non starter as they didnt try to conceal it.
Go Dagger !
Actually it shows that…the fact that at 4 mos…even with her prior knowledge that she was a candidate potential….she walks the walk. Her life reflects her stated values. Ok with me.
Go Dagger !
Talking about mom…(after a few hours to consider this)
I dont necessarily agree with every point…minute value detail…but at least what you see is what you get. Thats the strong point (the main one).
Another interesting thing…..to ponder….its not do as I say……its do as I do. The christian right has nothing to say in my book….this is the real deal. Mabey with this vp candidate we can climb off of our collective high horses, on both sides, and relize that life is not a set of slogans. As it’s been said…”S%#T …. I mean… LIFE happens” !
On another note…Gustov….what a difference when an issue is not politicized. WOW….great work Fema…La….bus drivers…Planners….somone has been hard at work.
Go Dagger !
PS.
And guard troops !
Go Dagger !
I agree, Ritchie- never a truer statement than ” life happens”. There but for the grace of God… If it were my daughter- knowing that she would be dragged through the mud- I think I might have foregone the nomination. But, perhaps something good will come of this- if more people are moved to react with the same understanding and compassion toward other young unmarried women who decide to keep an unplanned baby. Here’s a take to that effect- better said then I can:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/09/a_story_palin_should_tell.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Many people feel that how a candidate is as a parent is indicative of their judgment and values, and ability to lead others on the right path. If she is the “conservative values” candidate she certainly failed in raising a conservatively valued underage daughter. She failed to lead her daughter on the “right path” (or at least what conservatives thank is the right path) I thought good underage conservative kids are supposed to be practicing abstinence these days???
Bob…
You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink….cummon…..you think that girl couldnt raise a few hundred bucks?
Go Dagger !
Palin says 17-year-old daughter is pregnant
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080901/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_daughter
This is as hypocritical as it gets: Palin is a hardcore conservative who, along with John McCain, has strongly opposed funding for education to prevent teen pregnancy. It’s been sickening to see the right wing come out so strongly against sex education and contraceptive use among young people, and then see the inevitable result happen to their bright new shining star — an unwed pregnant teen.
Way to go, right wing “morals”!!
Many are against Palin because of her hard core stances. Example: she is strongly against allowing a girl to choose the option to terminate her pregnancy if that girl is raped by a thug and the thug’s fetus is threatening the girl’s life. That’s the kind of hard core government intrusion into private medical decisions that many people are against. If, God forbid, one of your family members faced this horrible situation, would you want Palin’s policies preventing her from making this personal decision, and forcing her to give birth or die giving birth to this thug’s fetus?
Bob - I’d like to believe that you are not a parent and therefore simply ignorant. So let me explain that good parents - whether liberal or conservative - can have kids who veer away from their values. While it’s painful for caring parents, all kids make mistakes and they sometimes reject what they have been taught. For example, if your parents raised you to not to make cruel comments about a pregnant, 17 year old you know nothing about, they are probably a little disappointed in you right now.
But none of that is a failure of leadership, judgement or values. Do Sarah Palin and her husband lead by example? According to their values, they did not abort their own baby when they learned he had Downs Syndrome. Do they demonstrate good judgment? Rather than try to cover it up, they made no attempt to hide their daughter’s pregnancy from McCain or from the public. Do they abide by “family values”? They are supporting their daughter’s decision to keep the baby and get married. Whether or not you and I agree with their values, this family is clearly walking their talk.
That said, I agree with Barak Obama who thinks candidates’ children are out of bounds. His supporters do him no favors with these kinds of attacks.
CAM — What is “cruel” about pointing out the hypocritical situation in which Palin has placed herself? This has nothing to do with her daughter — I’ll guess her daughter is a fine person. What it pertains to is Palin’s hard core stances, that end up bighting her in the behind. Palin, along with John McCain, has strongly opposed funding for education to prevent teen pregnancy. Why is it “cruel” to point this out?
Carlin:
http://www.johnmccain.com//Informing/Issues/17671aa4-2fe8-4008-859f-0ef1468e96f4.htm
McCain does support alternative energy.
the fact’s are the daughter is not running for president. I’also agree you can do the best you can with your children and yet they will go a stray. they did’nt try to hide it..
Times have changed, if this had happened in the 50’s or 60’s every thing possible would have been done to ”Hide it” it would have been considered a disgrace to the family.
I don’t think in this case the daughter’s story is out of bounds. Maybe it is when trying to attach Palin’s policies with her family life. But now Palin will have 5 children, one of which is going to Iraq, one who has Down syndrome, and one who is 5-months pregnant.
IN MY OPINION, the campaign trail is not where she and her husband need to be. I’m not saying she can’t or isn’t qualified to do it, but the timing isn’t right.
And in all this not a mention of the fact that the issue of legacies changed literally over nite.
Katrina was not repeated and we have turned over Anbar province to the Iraquis. The evacuation and disaster preperations in the Gulf Coast have been second to none.
The turn over, to Iraq, of what was one of the most violent areas of of that country shows us what “winning” looks like.
There was a Japaneese Admiral, forget his name, who said upon the attack at Pearl Harbor…”im afraid we have woken a sleeping giant”….Katrina woke many up and look at the results…..911 woke us up and we have fought a war with non national thugs in Iraq…flushing them out…..wearing them down…and now we are able to give Iraq back its nation.
Now mabey we can start looking at affordible health care…social issues as they applie in the 21st century…our economy….our national health.
Go Dagger !
Bob said, “Many people feel that how a candidate is as a parent is indicative of their judgment and values, and ability to lead others on the right path. ”
On July 4, 2007, the 24-year-old son of former Vice President Al Gore was arrested for drug possession after he was stopped for speeding in his hybrid Toyota Prius.
Al Gore III was driving at about 100 miles per hour on a freeway south of Los Angeles when he was pulled over by an Orange County sheriff’s deputy at about 2:15 a.m.
The deputy smelled marijuana and searched the car, finding up a small amount of marijuana, along with prescription drugs including Valium, Xanax, Vicodin, Adderall and Soma. There were no prescriptions found, he said.
Gore was arrested on suspicion of drug possession and booked into the Inmate Reception Center in Santa Ana, about 34 miles south of Los Angeles, on $20,000 bail. He had previously been arrested in 2003 for marijuana possession and in 2002 for suspected drunken-driving.
Should we hold that against Al when he preaches his doom and gloom sermons or if he runs for office again?
The worst part is all of the global warming produced at 100 mph, even in a hybrid.
I totally agree. As a mother, I think, why would I put my daughter through this scrutiny? I would never do that. Can you imagine the pressure that poor girl is under?
But the bigger problem with the Palin story is the two falsehoods that are being repeated over and over on TV. That she was against the bridge to nowhere (she’s a reformer!) when actually she campaigned for governor on GETTING it. She also was in charge of Ted Stevens’ 527 for his re-election campaign. (Who is under indictment) These are bigger issues to me. And these are not “liberal” blogosphere rumors, but fact.
Here’s the Reuters article about the bridge:
http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN3125537020080901
I love it. What goes around comes around. And it seems like those that are preaching hard and loud against some particular issue get it…tapping their feet against someone in a public bathroom…showing up as a regular “customer” for a young callgirl…having their underage, unmarried daughter getting knocked up.
I mean, it sucks that the girl is going to have to live out this experience in the public eye, but as far as political hypocrisy goes–love it.
In theory, the kids should be off-limits. But that won’t ever happen. Look what the dagger posters had to say about candidates’ families in a local election?! You think no one is going to go after something like this in the national arena?
Karma…makes you wonder whats behind the scenes…doesnt it?
Hey guys,
I just searched this entire posting for the word “intelligent.” It turns up a bunch of times, but nowhere is anyone explaining how the straight talk express wants to put a creationist/intelligent design wingnut a heartbeat away from being leader of the freeworld. Anyone?
matt, the current president also thinks intelligent design should be taught in the classroom. It’s a red herring. Much like the abortion issue, imo.
Fie, byoung. Fie: “staunch opposition to earmarks”
Not so. Look here: http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/?last_story=/politics/war_room/2008/09/02/teat_suckers/
“Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin employed a lobbying firm to secure almost $27 million in federal earmarks for a town of 6,700 residents while she was its mayor, according to an analysis by an independent government watchdog group.”
Steve’s right, as per usual…
I don’t remember seeing the Department of Education anywhere in the Constitution. A president, any president, has little or no bearing on what is taught in our schools (as long as you discount all of that “Just Say No” stuff Nancy Reagan was pumping us full of in the 80’s). Likewise the abortion issue. Like it or not, it is here, it will stay.
A president is not Emporer, Czar, or king. Presidents propose agendas. It’s up to Congress to enact them.
Fie, mums: “Palin is a whistleblower who told Congress to take back their pork-barrel bridge to nowhere.”
Not exactly. Look here: http://www.reuters.com/article/vcCandidateFeed7/idUSN3125537020080901
“People are learning that she pandered to us by saying, ‘I’m for this’ … and then when she found it was politically advantageous for her nationally, abruptly she starts using the very term [bridge to nowhere] that she said was insulting,” Weinstein said.
Dell- Then the question is- why are they using the anti-abortion issue to “sell” Mrs. Palin’s candidacy? Right there is a big ol’ sack of hypocrisy.
I have a major problem with hypocrisy. How is it a “Family Value” to endanger a high risk baby by taking a 13 hour air trip in labor? How is it a “Family Value” to take on a full time campaign when you have a special needs infant and a teenage daughter in crisis?
How is being mayor of a tiny little town where your only duties are 1) ceremonial duties and 2) presiding over city council meetings- ” executive experience”? And how is being governor for less than 2 years of a state that has less diversity and fewer people that most cities and is oil wealthy to boot - - preparation for national office? How is living “close to Russia” foreign policy experience? Ya really gotta wade through the BS to get to the truth. For example- Palin decided not to build the bridge to nowhere because she could keep the money and use it for other projects. The ROAD to the nonexistant bridge still got built- cause she would’ve had to turn that federal earmark money back in! How is that fiscally responsible?
She is a nice lady, I’m sure. But it is scarey to think that she will be a heartbeat away from being president with John McCain’s age and health issues. I see her as a very cynical choice. She has a vagina. She’s pro-life. How many votes can we get for that? John McCain proved to me that he put politics first- not the country. Some maverick…
I just hope that a majority of people really care enough to seek the truth and study the issues. I wonder if they do.
.
Curious…that female organ comment was just plain stupid…im sorry !
Go Dagger!
Much like yourself, Richie- I tend to be blunt. I guess I could have said “She is a girl.” I apologizeif I offended your sensibilities!
Chuckle !
On the “bridge to nowhere”: fair enough matt. There’s more to the story than Palin’s sound bite. But it still looks like she did the right thing once she became Governor. Weinstein is unlikely to concede it was because the bridge was a waste of money. He is the Mayor of Ketchikan, which he wanted linked to the airport on Gravina Island (a.k.a. “nowhere”). Weinstein is also a Democrat who also says Palin rejected the bridge based on national politics, but that’s questionable because Palin made her decision in 2007, well after the public outcry over the bridge (that happened in 2005) and well before she was picked as VP.
But you did prompt me to do some digging and I liked this source in particular because it gave a good timeline and facts from both sides: http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/680/.
As far as I can piece together, Congress changed the earmark for the $223 million “bridge to nowhere” in 2005 in response to the bad publicity and instead gave the money to Alaska for infrastructure projects of the state’s own choosing. So Palin didn’t decide to “keep the money” in part because Congress changed the purpose of the funding , but mainly because Palin wasn’t yet Governor. That means she was also not in a position to say “thanks but no thanks” when it would have mattered most.
It was under Governor Murkowski that some money was spent laying groundwork for a bridge, but most of it was committed to other infrastructure projects. As a candidate for office in 2006, it looks like Palin favored either a less costly bridge or some other connection to the Island’s airport. Once she was elected, she decided to cancel all state funding for a bridge in the fall of 2007.
At the end of the day, she still bucked her Republican predecessor’s plan to keep pouring money into the bridge. And