Harford County Councilman Dion Guthrie (District A) is urging citizens to ask County Executive David Craig to veto the amended FY10 budget. Guthrie raised the possibility of a veto in an email to supporters yesterday afternoon, noting that the budget had not yet been signed by the county executive. Guthrie said he would favor a veto to provide an opportunity for a review of budget cuts recently approved by a majority of the county council, and to restore funding to certain departments.
The Harford County Council approved cuts to Craig’s total proposed $811.6 million budget on May 29th. The cuts included a 5% reduction in operating funds for all departments and agencies except public safety and education, to support a decrease in the real estate tax rate.
Here’s the text of the email from Guthrie dated June 8:
As of this date the budget has not been signed by the County Executive. It is possible that he could veto the budget. I would be in support of this and would appreciate if you would send an email to the County Executive at drcraig@harfordcountymd.gov requesting him to do the same. This will give us a chance to go over those budget cuts that the Council approved by a 6-1 vote, myself being the only [one] who voted against the budget.
This is necessary so we can help restore the needed monies to the libraries, the State’s Attorney’s Office, Parks and Recreation, etc. Please send this email ASAP.
Councilman Dion Guthrie
Bob Thomas, spokesman for County Executive Craig said the budget amendments were currently under review by the county’s director of administration and the cabinet to determine the impact of the cuts approved by the council, but that there was currently “no indication of a veto”. Thomas said he believed Craig had until June 21st to sign off on the budget, which takes effect July 1.
So Guthrie votes for the tax cut, but against the budget cuts that are required because of the tax cut?
“This will give us a chance to go over those budget cuts that the Council approved by a 6-1 vote, myself being the only [one] who voted against the budget.”
Am I missing something, or is he saying “All of you voted for something that I voted against. Let’s bring it back and go over it again so, since I was the only one who really understood it, I can show you how wrong you were and how smart I am”?
Wait! I’ve seen this show before. When the budget was voted on, the councilman knew the votes were there to pass it. He casts a “no” vote, so he’s “on the record” opposing cuts in services. This way, IF the roof caves in at a Parks and Rec facility, or, a library shuts down, he can go back and say “SEE! I didn’t want this to happen, and EVERYBODY else did!”
If the budget is signed, and there is little disruption or no hue and cry from the constituents, he’s covered there too. After all, the budget cuts passed…
Classic politicking.
“I voted for the war, before I voted against it…”
Dell except he voted against the budget cuts and still wants it. Speaking of war….where exactly are those WMD’s or are we there to bring peace and democracy to the middle east….or are we there to end the cruel torture of a dictator.
Uhh, that’s my point.
It’s a win-win for him now.
There are other threads on here where you can stir up the war debate.
And, here are a couple of question marks and commas you can use to edit your rant.
,?,?
This whole process is a disaster. Craig and past County Executives have shown a lack of leadership and gross misconduct when it comes to County finances. I seriously doubt that Craig and his department heads have much in the way of real budgeting experience. This group probably doesn’t know the meaning of “zero” based budgeting.
UNDER CRAIG’s MANAGEMENT, As published on the State of Maryland website – The Harford County Budget has increased from $425,370,000 in 2005 to $617,109,000 in 2009. A 45% or $191,739,000 increase in 4 years.
This situation is completely out of hand! Lets join together and elect representatives who have personal and fiscal integrity along with the needed Leadership skills required to put this County back on track!
The county council meeting is scheduled for this evening, Tues. 6/9/09, at 7:30pm at the chambers in Bel Air. Citizen input is allowed. Praise or rebuke is encouraged.
The budget has the impact on all of us. Living within our means is critical and Braveheart, sir, you are right on target with the decision making skills that the exec. and his staff demonstrated with the budget. I wish that I had a 45% income increase in 4 years, don’t you?
In my opinion, the budget needs to be more realistic. The expenses that the county exec promoted and it appears as if Councilman Guthrie does, too, seem to be at the cost of going deeper into debt, borrowing more and costing our children their futures.
I applaud the other council members and thank them for cutting the budget.
Councilman Guthrie, the libraries, parks and rec facilities, the astro turf? the budget hearings that were open to the public at CMW and at Joppa HS- you didn’t attend, the other council members did.
The TEA parties and the input from citizens at the council meetings following the budget that was presented, did you hear what the county residents shared with the council? We have to prioritize and cut our own budgets. So does the county.
My suggestion to you sir, is to help fundraise for the library and/or the parks and rec. program. The budget does need to be looked at carefully. I hope that you offer your help to the chairpeople and/or the department heads so your valuable expertise can be utilized to ensure the smooth running of the departments with less funds in their budgets.
Please note that this is not a 5% cut to agencies, but at least a 10% cut as the agencies were already asked to cut at least 5%, and had done so and submitted their budgets for the year before they were broadsided by the County Council’s extra 5% cut.
Dave
You don’t get it. Look at the numbers,
UNDER CRAIG’s MANAGEMENT, As published on the State of Maryland website – The Harford County Budget has increased from $425,370,000 in 2005 to $617,109,000 in 2009. A 45% or $191,739,000 increase in 4 years.
There is plenty to cut!
A 10% cut is not that much considering the mess we are in.
Despite what I was told by David Craig’s spokesman Bob Thomas, the budget bill was signed over a week ago on June 2.
Dion Guthrie called to let me know when he found out the legislation had already been signed and here is the link to the bill – the signature page is the last.
http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/WebLink7/DocView.aspx?id=471376
The squealing started in the Aegis today. I was under the assumption that the budget had to be signed, sealed and delivered by 5/31or 6/1. However, the Aegis article mentioned possible veto by Craig. I just e-mailed Craig to support the council’s cuts or cut even more! I will never believe there is not 10% or more fat in any department of county government.
If the folks who think the cuts are too deep are seriously concerned, including Guthrie, they can get the word out and everyone who agrees with them can add 10% to their tax bill in July.
I just hope people remember this when waiting in longer lines and paying higher fees. I hope it does not snow as much. I hope you plan on paying more for your dog liscence which will be processed slower.
Cdev,
The longer lines and higher fees aren’t necessary. More efficient government is.
Cdev, that’s like saying that we should let illegals pick vegetables because otherwise, we would have to pay more for salads. If that’s true, then maybe salads are priced too low.
If it would take longer to get a dog license processed, maybe it’s not worth the extra taxes to have it done in a such a hurry. Or maybe the system is just not efficient, as Braveheart stated above, and it could be done better and at a lower cost.
Braveheart,
I do get it. What I get is that from the point of view of the agencies, they are being asked to cut at least 10% of their budgets, and in many cases even more (because of state cuts, etc.). What I do not understand is why the County Council felt the need to wait until the last minute to do this, when Craig had his budget ready on March 31. I also don’t understand why they felt the need to just apply an additional 5% cut across the board, when they have no say over how the agencies spend their budgets, while Craig does. Would it not make more sense for them to have come back to Craig shortly after March 31 and said “we want to cut taxes, so you need to also cut your budget by however many million dollars.” Craig would then have had plenty of time to go back to the agencies and find where budgets could be cut even more. This was very clumsy by the County Council and obviously a political move to make Craig look bad in an attempt to further their own careers.
Phil Dirt,
Calling immigrants who are here without papers “illegals” is a bit ignorant and seems like an attempt to dehumanize a group of people. You don’t call employers who hire employees without papers “illegals,” do you? I’ll admit that I drove a bit over the speed limit the other day. I guess you ought to call me an “illegal” now, too.
http://www.poder360.com/article_detail.php?id_article=669
Gentlemen the agencies will make up for lack of revenue by rasing direct service fees like liscence and processing charges as well as library fines. There is a point at which govt. can get no more efficient and becomes unproductive. Either way you will pay if it is taxes or higher fees or more days before snow is removed.
Speaking of snow removal……it is more efficient to just wait for it to melt instead of driving around combustion engines and pushing it out of the way and chemically damaging the road but we don’t do that; why is that?
Dave,
My point is that Government has to make the serious cut-backs that the rest of America is facing. GOVERNMENT SPENDING HAS BEEN LEVERAGED UP WITH THE ARTIFICIAL RUN UP IN REAL ESTATE PRICES. IT IS TIME TO DELEVERAGE. Salaries and benefits of most Government workers has become too rich. That is just a fact. Where else but in the Government sector do defined benefit pensions even exist. They receive unbelievable medical, vacation, and leave benefits. What gives Government workers the right to UNIONIZE?
I agree with you that under Craig’s LACK of leadership AND under the Counsil’s watch things have gotten out-of-control.
UNDER CRAIG’s MANAGEMENT, As published on the State of Maryland website – The Harford County Budget has increased from $425,370,000 in 2005 to $617,109,000 in 2009. A 45% or $191,739,000 increase in 4 years.
Cdev – are you for real? Our point is that Government has to make do with what it has – it is time for Taxpayers to draw a line in the sand.
If anyone thinks there is not room to cut waste in the government and improve efficiency, they have never dealt with the governmnet. Lets start by requiring that all employees stay at their office until 5 pm on Fridays.
Dave,
Bla bla bla bla bla. Illegals.
Oh, excuse me, DIFFERENTLY CITIZENED INDIVIDUALS.
Look it up in Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: illegal
Function: noun
Date: 1939
: an illegal immigrant
I apologize for failing to realize that you possess superior knowledge to a leaeding dictionary.
Your unbiased link (from podor360.com, part of Televisa Publishing + Digital, the self-described “world’s largest Hispanic content provider and distributor”) just shows me that Mr. Muñoz also needs the link to the definition at M-W.com.
No, I don’t call employers who hire employees without papers “illegals”. I call them “lawbreakers”. (Please refer to definition above). I call you a “speeder”, I call Joe Biden a “plagiarizer”, I call Bill Clinton a “liar”, and I call people here in America illegally “illegals”. Any questions?
Are you finished playing stupid semantic games now or is there more?
Cdev,
How is it more efficient to just wait for snow to melt instead of plowing it or salting the roads? How is the economy working efficiently when people are stuck at home and not working?
Phil Dirt,
There are plenty of other words we choose not to use, yet they remain in the dictionary: negro, wetback, wop, etc.
Phil Dirt,
If poder360.com doesn’t pass your muster, how about the University of North Texas Press, or are all institutions of higher learning also evil?
“Calling a group of people “illegals” is hateful, “racially loaded, imprecise, and pejorative.” Scholars, and children, understand that language and discourse can contribute to vile acts including crime, abuse and other social problems. Historical and current atrocities including the Holocaust, Darfur and the murder of Matthew Shepard are horrific examples of this intolerable truth. The term “illegals” is patently dehumanizing and inappropriate terminology, and its persistent use by extremists, as well as mainstream media and the general population, must stop now. “
“University of North Texas Press”- Really? Pulling out the pinnacle of academia and philosophy here, aren’t we?
“GO MEAN GREEN!”
Yeah, not quite Harvard, I guess. It was the result of a 10-second Google search… Does anybody care about what they’re saying?
Whatever…I tend to get off-topic here. Back to the topic at hand…
Apparently the Fallston branch of the library was “inefficient,” as folks seem to like to say around here. Apparently it will be closing at the end of the month due to the budget cuts.
I must say the Tea Party Group, for all their antics has shown in Harford County the squeaky wheel gets the grease, but at what cost? The big savings of about $40.00 on a 300K tax bill seems to be the whole effort was a wasted effort. The group should concentrate the State Assessment Office, since this is the agency that determines what your property will be assessed and the County only taxes based on this Assessment. Where were these Tea baggers, when the economy was on an upswing? What about last local election? I didn’t see them supporting any of the candidate, chances are the majority of you voted in the individuals who now you are so upset with. I hope the leaders of this so called tax relief group enjoy the big tax savings.
I will use my $30.00 savings to pay my Bay Restoration Bill that Gov. Erlich, was so nice to enact in 2004, which, does nothing for the majority of Citizens of Harford County, since our Water Treatment plant is already up to code with the BNR fee that is paid on the quarterly water bill. This money doesn’t even stay in Harford it is sent to Annapolis where the Counties have to write a grant to get the money back or a farmer can request money to pay for cover crops, and still the bay is endangered. .
As for the banter about County Employees being over paid and under work, I take great exception to this. The majority of the workers make very small salaries (starting salary 27K( http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/human_resources/NeoGovSite.cfm?ID=4 ), which is not that much if you have a family and live in Harford County, try buying a house in the County making this salary. Also, since the County employees are not receiving a cost of living increase, having to pay higher insurance cost, and now are facing more days off (more then the original 5-day furlough without pay) I am not sure why everyone is so upset. The majority of the workers with the County are hard working families who love Harford County and chose to work for the County because the want to serve it Citizens. What has been done by the Council is nothing more then a shameful pre-election ploy. I hope that the 3,000 County Employees will remember this next November. Is there waste in the County, YES, but hurting County worker families to save a few dollars is an outrage.
Dave seems to want to follow in the rich tradition of redefining words, as perrformed by such illustrious world leaders as… nah, it’s too easy. I’m not gonna play that card.
If it makes you happy, I’ll stick with “differently citizened”.
Wow! It works! Change the way we define a problem and it’s no longer a problem! Thanks, Dave!
Calling people “illegals” just dehumanizes them and makes it easier to hate them. This is true for terms applied to all kinds of groups of people, not just minorities or immigrants. What is a problem is the current immigration system…it needs reforming, which would benefit all involved.
I read this book by a conservative columnist about six months ago and was impressed by some of his findings. Go pick it up while your library’s still open and give it a read: “Let Them In: The Case for Open Borders” by Jason L. Riley.
“The argument that immigrants depress wages, displace workers, boost crime and disease, and pose a threat to the national security of the U.S. runs counter to political ideals of free trade and the views of conservative hero President Ronald Reagan, who supported amnesty for illegal immigrants and open borders, according to Riley, a conservative columnist. He briefly examines the long and sordid history of opposition to immigrants from Germany, Ireland, China, and, more recently, Latin America. Riley notes that immigration opponents are joined in their resistance to open borders by some environmentalists concerned about the impact on the earth of a burgeoning U.S. population. He challenges the notion that the current targets of immigrant ire—Hispanics—are somehow different from immigrants of the past. Riley also explores the compatibility between open immigration and free-market conservatism and homeland security. Because immigrants strengthen the economy through their labor and entrepreneurism, our policy on immigration should recognize economic realities and focus on providing legal ways for immigrants to enter the country through guest-worker programs, according to Riley. An illuminating look at immigration.”
If you think that $50 is that insignificant, I encourage you to donate your savings to the county so you can go to sleep feeling so good about your superiority.
Sweet dreams. As PT Barnum allegedly said, “There’s a Dave born every minute.” I’ll take the 50 bucks and every other penny the government does not need from me. It ain’t much, but it’s a start.
And the current immigration system does not need reforming, it needs enforcing.
I believe that there is a logical fallacy in arguing that it is wrong to say that illegal immigrants are in fact, illegal.
I wholeheartedly support improving the process of border crossing so that the hard-working migrant workers can pay taxes just like the rest of us. However, that is not the issue here. According to federal law, they are illegal immigrants. Until that is changed, they are still breaking the law by being present in the United States.
And if you are going to complain about the term “illegals” because it is dehumanizing, per the following comment:
“Calling people “illegals” just dehumanizes them and makes it easier to hate them. This is true for terms applied to all kinds of groups of people, not just minorities or immigrants.”
Perhaps you should practice what you preach with the “slum-lords” comments that you are so fond of. Who are those comments directed towards?
Sir,
You had as much time as did the library to argue for more funding in the budget for the particular cause you support.
A week or so ago you stated that I, as an organizer of the TEA party, was a slum lord because I disagreed with the high property taxes.
Later, you claimed that I either supported or was a proponent of eugenics, or forced sterilization, as were the Nazis. I do not.
Today, you claim that council waited til the last minute to reduce the budget by 5%. You sir are foolish in thinking that the council made that decision lightly. The executive is the one who plans and develops the budget. Input is accepted and the departments have opportunity to request and detail needs. Your tirade shows that you are mis-informed. The “estate” owner you quote from the budget hearing lives on a house that his family built on his family’s farm. His property tax increased to approx. $10,000.00 for a two acre lot and house, this year.
The so called “slum lords”, myself and others that attended and practiced our constitutional rights to protest unfair levees on our property, acted within the law to ensure that all of us can afford to live here in the county. Your diatribe about the lack of facts is one that someone who has no basis in reality would spew. As far as calling names, illegals are not legal, hence the term, illegal. Your previous post reminds me of a teenager arguing with his/ her parents over curfew.
Now, lets address how else the budget __could___be cut.
Do we need more parks and rec fields with astro turf?
Do we need more flower beds?
Do we need more pictures/ art work spread throughout the county office bldgs?
The task is not one that was taken lightly by the council. You insult all citizens by diminishing the task that they accomplished.
If you want to vent your “its so unfair and unjust” tirades, please address the issues that your rage might be of help. The media’s treatment of Ms. Sarah Palin and her daughters, the soldier that was shot by some lunatic anti-American terrorist, or what about the appointment by Pres. Obama of Czars to do the jobs that his cabinet members are supposed to do. Your rage could be more productive if directed towards problems that exist. You are aiming your venom at the wrong people.
I am not diminishing the impact of $50, just refuting the charge that this property tax cut will somehow keep people in their homes.
In regards to the immigration issue, I agree with “Anti-Dave” that we need to reform the process. If you’d like to call them “illegal immigrants,” I suppose I won’t even complain too much. It is the term “illegals” that really bothers me, as it seems to imply that their existence is in fact illegal, not their immigration status. If I call someone a murderer or even a slum-lord, I am not saying that their existence is illegal, just their acts.
Most undocumented immigrants actually do pay taxes without collecting many of the benefits of paying those taxes (Social Security, etc.). In the book I mentioned above, Jason Riley shows how undocumented immigrants actually give Americans a net surplus, and therefore may serve to enhance your government services at their expense.
What do “slum-lords” do that is illegal? And it “applies to all groups of people, not just minorities or immigrants.”
Perhaps my argument is semantic, but what are you doing to support your causes.
Also, I apologize for the “anti-dave” name. That is an ad hominem fallacy. I’m not anti-dave, I just don’t feel the same way as you do. 🙂
Pat,
You are entirely misquoting me and putting words in my mouth. I have never accused you or anyone specifically of being a slum lord, and I certainly wouldn’t ever call someone a slum lord because they want lower property taxes. I would call someone a slum lord because of how they maintain their properties and treat their tenants.
In fact I did not even mention slum lords until earlier today in a comment on this post. I think you are thinking of someone named Eric who was talking about slum lords in a previous post about the budget. However, I was told by people more familiar with the area that some “slum-lords from Aberdeen” were among those protesting and commenting at the County Council hearings.
As for accusing you of being a proponent of eugenics, here is what you wrote:
“If they choose not to be married, then they , both mom and dad, should be sterilized if they opt for the gov/t to fund the raising of the child.” If that’s not eugenics, it seems awfully close to it.
I attended a County Council meeting and wrote every single member of the County Council before they voted on this, as well as the County Executive, and even actually received replies from some of them (a pleasant surprise). I have never implied that the County Council made this decision lightly. In fact, I think it was a very calculated move, albeit one I disagree with and think was politically motivated.
If you’d like to have a discussion about the news in Harford County, it doesn’t serve any of us well to keep calling me misinformed, like a teenager, foolish, etc. If you’d like to keep this blog to yourself and ask me to leave, please do so.
If the County Council had returned the budget with further reductions to the County Executive earlier in the year, or even shortly after the agencies presented how they were going to meet his already reduced budget, perhaps something could be done to cut funding for astro-turf fields, flower beds, etc. If they had done that, perhaps Mr. Craig could have found ways to cut capital projects. I believe the fact is that they cut an extra 5% from the operating budgets of each agency. Astro-turf fields are paid for with capital money, not anyone’s operating budget.
Calling illegal immigrants “illegals” is disgusting. So is calling someone who steals a thief or someone who commits a sex act without the permission of the other person a rapist, and so on. We let perverts pervert further pervert the language and we all play the fell good political correctness. Sorry Dave but you’re all wet, not just the back!
Dave,
I am wondering why you think that the council waited till the last minute to decide what amounts to cut from the budget that the executive sent to them. I sat through the council meetings and listened to the dept. heads describe the impact of the budget cuts on their depts. and several presented very weak cases in my opinion. One complained that she had to empty her own trash cans, and another said that they had to cut back on trainings for staff quite a difference in perspective. The point I am making is this, Exec. Craig and his well paid advisory staff, had over a year to develop the budget. The council, had given the exec. input and their ideas and concerns throughout the year. Mr. Craig did not acknowledge the pain his budget increases would cause many of the citizens over which he is “head honcho” , primarily senior citizens on fixed incomes, farmers, and small businesses. He also did not have a plan on how to fund the budget that he proposed from prior years. The council has the obligation to the citizens in this county, to oversee and manage the spending of our money. That is the primary job of our elected council. The council told the exec. not to expand his budget and to be aware of the county’s decrease in revenue. Exec. Craig and his staff chose not to hear them. He chose not to cut or alter his capital budget before he submitted it to the council.
Mr. Craig is trying to do what he believes is right for the county. I believe that. I just think that he presented a pie in the sky budget and that council had to re-focus the attention to the matters at hand. That is why I think that the council did not cut any one budget, but made an across the board cut. I do believe that the exec. expected his budget to be cut, too, so perhaps, he is the one that should have had an alternate plan ready.
One last comment on who gets to share on a blog…this is one of yours ,mine and our freedoms, rights and responsibilties as Americans. Free speech and free press is a blessing that I am very grateful for and choose to practice and use as I am able. I wish you the same. God bless.