“Fair Share” Fee Legislation May Require Non-Union Public School Employees to Pay Dues for Union Representation

Should non-union members have to pay union dues? Yes, says the Maryland teachers union, which is backing a bill requiring non-union public school employees to pay a so-called “fair share” fee for union representation in collective bargaining. The statewide bill applies only to employees represented by unions that are recognized as exclusive bargaining units with their local school board. As such, the bill may include all non-union members in Harford County Public Schools.

Under Senate Bill 422, which was introduced Monday with Sen. Catherine Pugh (D-District 40) as the lead sponsor, the exact amount of the annual fair share fee would be negotiated between the qualifying union(s) and their local school board. The amount could also change from year to year and may vary depending on the class of employee represented, said Adam Mendelson, managing director of communications and program services for the Maryland State Education Association, the state teachers’ union.

Mendelson estimated that, for teachers and support personnel in general, the fee would be approximately 68% of the dues paid by union members.

The intent, he said, is to base the fee on the costs incurred by qualifying unions to negotiate and enforce their respective contracts, which cover both union and non-union employees alike. The bill does not cover employees represented by so-called “meet and confer” groups that typically represent school administrators, he said.

Some Maryland counties have already implemented a fair share fee, but Harford County is not among them. The statewide bill would bring the remaining counties into the practice.

In Harford County, all of the five unions representing public school employees are exclusive bargaining units, said Teri Kranefeld, HCPS manager of communications. As such, it appears that all non-union HCPS employees would pay the fee under the proposed legislation.

However, Mendelson said he believed that only non-union teachers, represented by the Harford County Education Association (HCEA); support staff, represented by the Harford County Educational Services Council (HCESC), and custodians, cafeteria workers and bus drivers represented by the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees (AFSCME) would be subject to the fee. Mendelson said that the other two HCPS unions representing administrators and supervisors may be “meet and confer” groups.

HCEA is the largest union in Harford County Public Schools, which according to its Web site represents the school system’s 3,200 teachers, guidance counselors, and psychologists, media specialists, occupational therapists, physical therapists, and speech and hearing clinicians. Of that number, approximately 1,900 are HCEA members paying $600 per year in dues, President Ryan Burbey said in an interview earlier in the school year. If SB 422 passes and the estimated 68% rate for non-union members applies, the annual fair share fee for the remaining 1,300 teachers would be $408 each, totaling an additional $530,400 for HCEA. Under the bill, non-union members would have the right to challenge the amount of the fee.

Burbey said that he welcomed the proposed legislation to help pay for staff who carry out salary negotiations and administer the countywide bank of sick-leave days; plus the court and other costs associated with filing certain grievances and appeals. Burbey has also led the drive for higher teacher salaries, organizing a petition drive and calling on teachers and concerned citizens to lobby the county for more school funding.

State Sen. Barry Glassman said that SB 422 appeared to be modeled after similar legislation that now covers state employees. Glassman said he voted against that bill at the time and he was not inclined to support what he called “forced fees.” However, Glassman noted that bill has 23 sponsors, and only 24 votes were needed for passage in the Senate. None of the sponsors listed on the bill are from Harford County.

Before it is enacted, the bill must pass in both the Senate and the House, where Mendelson said SB 422 would be cross-filed. The bill may also be amended. As currently proposed, SB 422 would take effect on July 1, 2013.

A copy of the bill appears below:

Comments

  1. Red says

    That policy has been in place for about twenty years for some Maryland counties. They can’t charge for any political activity done by the union, but the negotiations and other services benefit all the staff members.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7
  2. Phil Dirt says

    Oh yes, it’s so “fair” to have to pay a mandatory tax to a non-govermental organization.

    Yeah, right. Thank God I work in a non-union industry.

    Well-loved. Thumb up 21 Thumb down 3
    • CDEV says

      It is when you consider the non-union members benefit when a salary increase is negotiated.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 11
  3. Brian says

    The HCEA can’t even properly represent and negotiate for its willing participants. The HCEA now wants non-union public school employees to pay a “fair share” fee? What a joke.

    Well-loved. Thumb up 19 Thumb down 5
      • Common Cents says

        I’m sure it does. But the issue here is with the non-members. The union doesn’t represent them because it cares about them. It does so because it’s in the union’s best interests.

        And that’s perfectly okay – the union is a special interest group. That’s its job.

        The problem occurs because now you want to “tax” the non-members for providing a service that you are only providing because it’s in your best interests.

        And that’s just ridiculous.

        Well-loved. Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3
    • A says

      HCEA has negotiated pay raises for their membership. It is the county council and county executive that have refused to fund those raises. Your anger should be directed at them. If you want to see negotiated contracts to be honored then elect other people to county government.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 11
    • W.T.F.? says

      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

      Poorly-rated. Thumb up 8 Thumb down 20
      • Kharn says

        Maybe some teachers are not in HCEA because they would prefer to be paid according to their own accomplishments and value to the organization, instead of being tied to a seniority-based system with zero flexibility?

        Well-loved. Thumb up 25 Thumb down 8
        • CDEV says

          Than you need to convince the school board to bargin each contract seperately. BTW are you willing to pay for the people who will have to be involved in that?

          Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4
          • Kharn says

            The Board wouldn’t have to bargain each worker’s contract, you would use a standard contract and delegate approval authority to the principals within certain limitations (ie no more than 15 sick days per year or total compensation more than $85k without Board approval), with negotiations starting at the scale and 10 sick days. If you want to keep that awesome AP Calculus teacher whose students have a history of 95% on getting a 5, you’d go to the Board and explain why that teacher deserves $90k/yr, or a state championship swimming coach might want 20 sick days because their kid needs dialysis. On the flip side, that problem teacher who can’t make it to work the day after a Redskins game would lose a few paid sick days the next year.

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          • CDEV says

            From a budgetary stand point have you thought of the implications of that not to mention differing standards?

            Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5
          • Kharn says

            The same as in private industry: Each division (school) would be given an annual operating budget and more responsibility placed on the principal. The standards are up to the school’s administrators, if they’re not acceptable to the local community, take it to the School Board and have the principal replaced.

            Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
          • The Money Tree says

            Your review is done by your boss, the result of such based upon multiple factors, performance, initiative, ability and attitude among them. It’s done all the time in private industry without all the handwringing. The fact that you believe we’d need another administrative agency to cover this task tells me quite a bit about you and the aforementioned list of qualities. The only folks dead set against quality being tied to pay increases are those who can’t cut it.

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          • Truth says

            HA!! They can’t even pay teachers 50 or 60K on the current schedule. Harford County is poor, just ask the County Exec or the Board. They can’t fund raises. “no more than 85K?” The current scale doesn’t even come close to that! Maybe that is the problem….people who have no idea what they are talking about are acting like they do! HA! Nice!

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        • Reggie says

          Money Tree – I agree with you. I also tend to see your point about performance pay…no need to fear it if you are doing your job. My concern is the number of things outside of a teacher’s control. Teachers cannot control poverty, lack of parental involvement, student preparation outside of the school day, etc. If some sort of performance based model could take those things into account, I don’t think that there would be an issue with performance based pay from those in the classroom.

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          • The Money Tree says

            I agree with that – there are intangibles that must be woven into the full picture. Typically in private industry a month or two prior to your review you’re given the opportunity to establish your case and turn in a written report prior to the final review. That allows the opportunity to remind the reviewer of the particulars of your situation. There are other criteria that are much more cut and dry – attendance, responsibility and attitude are more easily measured. Regardless there will be times when you feel like you’ve been treated unfairly or criticized for things beyond your control – we all get treated like dirt once in awhile but all in all I’d still rather stand on my own merit.

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          • Reggie says

            I guess my worry for teachers would be that the powers-that-be would expect student x to show growth on a test. Student x goes home, refuses to review the material, stays out until midnight, comes to school on 3 hours of sleep with a poor attitude and takes the test. I know, as you say, that you can review those particulars…but my experience has been that some don’t want to hear “excuses.” In Hollywood, teachers can still make student x a physicist. Why can’t you?

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    • Ryan Burbey says

      HCEA represents all members to the fullest extent of the law. All any HCEA member who is having difficulties need do is call or email me.

      Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4
  4. there you go says

    Anyone doubting Burbey wasnt a Marxist, here is your proof. We chose to not be in the Union, they want to punish us by forcing us to pay. Any time I hear “Fair share” or “Social Justice” I want to throw up.

    Well-loved. Thumb up 29 Thumb down 7
    • CDEV says

      Is it fair that the people in the union negotiate on behalf of everyone and the non members get a raise. Perhaps fair would be to leave the non-members at the mercy of Rick Grambo to decide what you get.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 12
      • open your eyes says

        Lets face it, there are some people that would never support raising taxes to support school system programs or their employees and the vital work they do on behalf of everyone in the community. There are also those that will not admit there is excess in the school system budget and resist all attempts to identify and promote greater efficiencies. These extreme views only undermine the quality and hinder the effectiveness of the school system. I have watched the school system budget process and the same extremes can be seen on the school board. A few pragmatic members of the school board have attempted to reign in expenses while improving the quality and equity of services delivered to our community. Unfortunately the extremes on either side prevent this from happening. I think you can figure out where the current group of school board members fall on this scale.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3
        • Kharn says

          I support a PA-style tax for the schools separate from the rest of the county tax assessment on properties. Let people see exactly what their taxes are buying.

          Well-loved. Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1
    • Kharn says

      I would still like to know how many votes were cast, how many were for Mr Burbey, how many were for the other candidates and the number of eligible voters that did not cast a ballot.

      Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
      • so what says

        What difference does that make? Just because you are eligible to vote does not require you to do so. That happens in all elections whether it is within an organization, a group like a home owner association, shareholders in a company, or for political office.

        Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3
        • Kharn says

          The vote for Burbey’s coronation was with extremely limited notice in the middle of the summer, when, per multiple teachers on Dagger, they’re all slaving away at a second job to keep from being foreclosed or evicted. I wonder if a quorum was even present.

          Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4
      • CDEV says

        Than join HCEA and you can get that info. Otherwise Mr. Burbey is not answerable to you since you are not a member!

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 3
  5. Al says

    I think government is going a little overboard. If you choose not to be a union member how can you force payment of a fee. If you are not a member you do not want representation. Are we now a police state. What happened to freedom of choice?????

    Well-loved. Thumb up 22 Thumb down 7
    • just another opinion says

      I am sure that your federal, state and local taxes are paying for things you do not support just as there are taxpayers that do not support things you want the government to do. We can’t always pick and choose. The same thing goes for dues and other fees charged by groups to which we belong. Non union teacher derive a benefit from the activities of HCEA and should be required to contribute to that aspect of HCEA efforts.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 12
      • Common Cents says

        “We can’t always pick and choose”.

        Yep – you can’t always pick and choose who pays your bills. The bottom line is that the union has CHOSEN to represent everyone because the union has DECIDED its in the best interests of the UNION’s members!

        They aren’t doing it for the non-union members – they’re doing it for themselves!!!

        That’s just common sense!

        Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3
    • Neal Anderson says

      It’s simply a payment for a service, to make a difference you really do have to be involved and until everyone is on board, the status quo will continue at HCEA, the board and with Craig.

      Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
  6. AbingdonTeacher says

    Pay for the negotiating team? The negotiating team that has done nothing but lose us money over the last 5 years? Keep your hands off my paycheck.

    How about adding a clause that creates an option where non-union members can negotiate their own contracts?

    Well-loved. Thumb up 26 Thumb down 4
    • just another opinion says

      If that were to happen you had better be well versed in the application process for government assistance. This is Harford County we are talking about.

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7
    • Common Cents says

      Apparently, you owe them something. It’s all just a ploy to get you to join the union…

      Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
    • Neal Anderson says

      Who will have the time to oversee negotiations of over 3 thousand people? What if you don’t agree? What then?

      Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
  7. Reggie says

    I do see the point…if you don’t pay dues, why should you benefit from negotiated items? If forcing someone to pay for a service that they receive rubs you the wrong way, how about stating that negotiated benefits packages and COLAs are for Association Members only? Funny…many on the right hate the “something for nothing” mentality. Don’t non-members receive something for nothing in this case?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 11
    • Kharn says

      I would be perfectly agreeable to HCEA members being on one pay scale, and non-HCEA members being allowed to individually negotiate their salaries and terms of employment.

      Well-loved. Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1
      • Reggie says

        Are you thinking that the board would compensate the non-represented teachers better? I wonder how that would work? My only fear is that this would lead to union-busting (or association busting).

        I am not saying I am on the teacher’s side here. I just understand the point. Why should someone gain benefits from a group when they don’t belong?

        Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2
        • The Money Tree says

          The board would negotiate some of the non-union teachers better – the ones that had higher performance standards…the others; those that got poor reviews would either buckle down and improve their performance or promptly demand to be represented by the union because that’s what unions do – prop up the less able.

          Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3
  8. AbingdonTeacher says

    I’d also like to see HCEA put out a budget in public that shows that 68% of all union dues are used for “negotiating” purposes. To say the additional money from non-members will only be used for negotiating purposes and not for political activism is a crock. Is the union expecting a massive increase in the cost of negotiation? If so, document it. If not, then all the additional money provided by non-union members gets funneled right up to the NEA.

    Well-loved. Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2
    • CDEV says

      They do put out a budget….it is availible for union members who pay for it to see!

      Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 11
      • AbingdonTeacher says

        CDEV, I generally agree with you on most issues on here :)

        If you are going to have a public vote to involuntarily take money from my paycheck, then you need to publicly show exactly where that money is going.

        I have no problem paying a negotiation fee to an independent entity that strictly negotiates the contract, i.e. paying my fair share. Thus guaranteeing my money goes towards what I want it to.

        I DO have a problem with money being taken out of my paycheck without prior knowledge of what is being paid for with it. And not just lip service, I want an actual budget. One that I shouldn’t have to pay for to see.

        I don’t blindly trust that HCEA will do what is says it will.

        Well-loved. Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2
        • CDEV says

          It is my understanding based on what I read that too would be the case. The 68% figure is an estimate. I know counties that have this where it is far lower. It is strictly the cost associated with negotiating and enforcing (think PLRB) that contract. When I taught in PG county the union dues where 60 a check and the non union fee was 21 a check. PGCEA gave you a front and back plain up and down summary of what each got you and more detail was availible on request.

          Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
      • Kharn says

        Under the guise of every teacher paying a fair share, Mr Burbey would have to open the books to everyone, not just the HCEA members.

        Well-loved. Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1
          • Kharn says

            The information would have to be released to the school board to ensure expenses for “negotiations” were the only ones charged to the non-members. Public Information Act would allow any interested citizen to then receive those records.

            Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1
  9. j johnson says

    If all those non members get full voting rights in the “non-political activities” then there is less of a problem. The upside if that would happen would be that Burbbly would never be voted into office again.

    Well-loved. Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2
  10. blue says

    And what has the Union done in the past year, besides take away the state surplus bonuses ?
    When was the last pay raises?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4
    • so what says

      You got a cola and a step raise this year. It wasn’t a state surplus that was taken away it was local money and that was the decision of the county executive and county council. You got half of what was initially offered just like every other county employee. Complain to them.

      Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3
    • so what says

      And I would add that the only reason you got the cola and step was because of the brave actions of enough fed up teachers who demonstrated their frustration at the end of last school year and HCEA legal actions. That is what convinced some school board holdouts (they are not hard to identify) to eat those raises out of the existing budget. If it was up to county government you wouldn’t have received even that.

      Well-loved. Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3
  11. Patrick McGrady says

    Here’s a letter I sent to the Sun and Dagger a few weeks back, re: this bad idea:

    The recent news that the Maryland State Education Association, the state’s largest teachers union, is pressing for the Maryland General Assembly to pass a law to forcibly collect dues from teachers statewide who wish not to join it is tragic.

    These types of laws exist in some other states, but the number is dwindling. Indiana and Michigan, in the past two years, have passed laws freeing workers from the shackles of forced unionism, and they join the ranks of a total of 24 right-to-work states.

    The unions and their sycophants use flowery language to make compulsory unionism sound reasonable to the public, but the truth is evident.

    Fortunately, their attempts to make the last 17,500 employees who choose not to be union members pay these dues points to their failures — the only way they can continue to exist is by using the law to extract dues from the other employees.

    No man or woman, teacher or plumber, grocery bagger or construction worker should ever be compelled by law to pay union dues as a condition of employment.

    Patrick McGrady, Aberdeen

    Well-loved. Thumb up 23 Thumb down 8
  12. RC says

    Next point… Every tax payer in the Harford county should also “contribute ” to the unions.. after all don’t they all benefit from “better” teachers retained or hired as the result of union negotiations? What about the students too? Surely they are much better off with the HCEA representing all of the school employees. When someone volunteers to work for your benefit , you should pay them. The only real question is ” How much “

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7
  13. Paul says

    When was the last contact signed? When was there a pay raise?? What good has the union been?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4
        • Kharn says

          I notice you forgot to mention Obama stopping the payroll tax holiday, resulting in an additional 2% taxes on gross pay…

          Well-loved. Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2
          • I Left says

            First, Obama fought to get the second year of that payroll tax holiday, and BOTH parties openly supported the end of what was (supposed to be) a one year boost to the flagging economy. Obama didn’t “stop” it. He created it, extended it and then BOTH parties let it end. You make a lot of great points, Kharn. Don’t let open partisanship get in the way of your actual intellect.

            Second, I’m not too keen on this “fair share” legislation. When I was in HCPS, I went to the info meeting from HCEA. I wasn’t impressed. They seemed to have nothing more than a canned sales pitch and a free pen. The leadership has been neither strong nor visible. If I were still in the county, I would seriously think about joining solely due to the poisonous atmosphere down there these days, but that should still be a decision. If you want more people to join, start some authentic grass roots work in the individual schools. Get visible. Conduct yourselves responsibly in public (I respect Ryan’s enthusiasm, but his frequent…outbursts…in public have made him into a figure that is too easily dismissed by many people before he ever says a word on a topic. He’s at a point where many people judge his reputation rather than his ideas/words).

            Trying to legislate people into joining just seems to send the wrong message. You saw organized teachers at the end of last year. They WILL organize–the HCEA just needs to figure out how to sell themselves to convince those teachers to organize under the HCEA banner.

            Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
  14. Mike Perrone Jr. says

    What is so bad about the idea that some teachers may be better off making their own case for increases in their compensation?

    Well-loved. Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2
    • Mike Welsh says

      Nothing is bad about that idea. Those who are very good teachers (and most know who they are) would be much better off.

      Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2
    • CDEV says

      Nothing except that it would be exspensive since you would have to hire more HR people to handle it all.

      Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3
      • Kharn says

        How could it be more expensive? The current payroll software already has to track each person’s pay separately (not all Year 6 teachers have the exact same withholdings), so changing it to use individual salary values should not be technologically difficult. After that, its just data entry. 3200 entries at two minutes per form (teacher name, employee number, old salary for verification purposes, new salary) would be 107 working hours, or about 3 weeks, easily accomplished over the summer when teachers are in a non-pay status by a single employee.

        Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
        • CDEV says

          The pay process is the same the negotiating 5,200 contracts part is however much mor difficult!!!!!

          Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1
    • truth says

      Who would negotiate for these unaffiliated teachers? Wouldn’t they need to form a network that could negotiate for them. If so, that would be something like HCEA….wouldn’t it?

      Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
      • Kharn says

        They would negotiate like the vast majority of white collar employees: directly with their supervisor.

        Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2
        • truth says

          Would that be a principal? Content Supervisor? Superintendent? The answer to this question would be important. Principals could surely address this pay question, but will the board trust them with this power? Content supervisors would have to actually go back into the schools for observational purposes. Do they have the time? The Superintendent probably knows 3 teachers by name, let alone how good they are. How could he adequately propose a raise for anyone in the classroom?

          And the question is moot anyhow. Mr. Craig probably wouldn’t fund a pay raise negotiated by these teachers either.

          Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0
  15. School employee says

    I support the Bill, I think that there is alot of individuals who sponge off of rewards that others have fought for! I pay my dues and some are reaping the rewards of what I have fought for. Lets make everyone pay there fair share

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 9
      • parent says

        Not everyone has a college degree in English. Don’t be so smug. Grammatical errors can be found in your posts as well.

        Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3
  16. Brady says

    I don’t have the time, at the moment, to read the bill. Hopefully others in this thread who are “in the know” can answer this question:

    Would this apply to non-teachers, such as IAs? IAs’ salaries are already below poverty level wages. If so, do we really need to use the “guns of the government” to make them even poorer?

    Brady

    Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
  17. Janet says

    As a teacher, and an Association member ( and it is not a Union), I completely agree that non-members should pay. Frankly, I wish it was a Union and everyone had to be a member. Why should my colleagues get all of the benefits (financially) from all that is negotiated when they don’t contribute? It has always bothered me and I am a 15 year teacher.

    If everyone continues to just get everything for free, then it is difficult to want to stay in. We all have some difficulty paying the fees, but without the Association, we lose all bargining powers and at this point, we already have a poor showing due to limited membership.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4
    • BrianC says

      People who do not pay the union due, do not get ALL the benefits. There will be no legal help should they get into trouble. Much of your fees go to legal things, not just negotiations.

      Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
      • School employee says

        Thats bull crap, They recieve the same health benefits i do, they recieve the same representation I do.. they dont pay anything for it. I do

        Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
        • BrianC says

          Yes it is, If I get accused of assaulting a student, the union lawyers are not coming to my defense.

          PS, (i before e except after c)

          Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
        • Frustrated says

          A non-union member does not get to vote on that negotiated agreement. We are not privy to what is going on through communications. Not represented if put on a plan or legal action that may occur. You may want to ask some of the teachers on plans too, they aren’t receiving too much help from union either. Union is turning blind eye to the current climate of putting veteran teachers, who don’t buy into the kids can teach themselves practice, on plans to either make them retire or nicely demote them so they will quit. Morale is low b/c it is like “glad they are picking on them but when are they getting to me”. I know of people who have asked union to represent them in conferences and were told it was up to the principal if they could be there.

          So every time the union gets on this site or paper and demands more money, I know my job is going to be made harder. Don’t get me wrong, thank you for the step I received but it was the one negotiated for me three years ago. More money meant less time to plan, more duties, and higher health deductions. When the county didn’t live up to the negotiated agreement why didn’t the union then try to renegotiate other areas? Why don’t they negotiate for no chaperone duties or meaningful planning time? Why aren’t they being more vocal on the way teachers are being harassed through the evaluation process by some administrators?

          I was a member but couldn’t afford the $600 deduction for what? So I’m not a member and take the risk of not having the backing of the union. So for those who get mad that we get what you do, remember you get the vote I don’t. But like most union members you vote the way they want you too. Just like when the new evaluation process was presented, the union got the information out in a day and wanted a vote? Union didn’t make any waves with what the county was proposing. So you had people voting on something they really didn’t read….just like our government.

          God help this country b/c we are on a very slippery slope.

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          • Ryan Burbey says

            HCEA represents all members to the fullest extent of the law. All any HCEA member who is having difficulties need do is call or email me.

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    • teach dont preach says

      Janet if the union is so great, why are you not a member? Its for the greater good remember?

      Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1
  18. teacher says

    I am a 28 year HCPS teacher. I have said for years that I would gladly pay HCEA dues, I WILL NOT pay MSTA or NEA dues, I do not agree with those organizations and refuse to support them. Unfortunately, HCEA will not allow me to do this…but maybe this is an alternative solution?

    Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1
    • Brian says

      I don’t blame you. If were in your position I would not join the NEA either. Their so-called “progressive” agenda is one reason our schools are a mess, both academically and socially.

      Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2
    • Reggie says

      I agree with you. Dues paid to HCEA should be for representation fees and HCEA business only. To send money to other groups with obvious national/state political agendas is suspect at best.

      Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1
        • Brian says

          CDEV, what do you mean “Do you feel the same about PTA’s”?

          If I give to the PTA, I expect those monies to be used locally (i.e., within that particular school) and not passed up the branch, so to speak.

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          • CDev says

            You may want to do your homework. PTA is a national organization. Part of your dues go to a state and national organization!!!!! That is why some schools have PTO’s in order to escape that.

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          • Brian says

            Yes, I’m aware that it’s a national organization. I give locally when I give to the PTA (i.e., cash or check to the local school, usually a requesting room-mom wanting to tackle a project or buy a teacher gift).

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          • local yocal says

            That’s why I don’t give to the girl’s scouts. The national organization gives money to Planned Parenthood.

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          • CDEV says

            OK Brian what you discribed is not joining the PTA it is giving to the school, room mom etc. When you join the PTA and pay dues it works on the same principal as joing HCEA and they give a small portion to MSEA and NEA.

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          • Brian says

            Yes, you’re correct. I was probably using “give to the PTA” in a looser manner.

            As a side note, I don’t really know that much about the national operations and ambitions of the PTA, so I’m not sure how I would feel about giving in that manner.

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  19. PB says

    Unions have imploded auto, textiles, and manufacturing. It’s clear the same results are pending for socialized education.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3
    • Sick of it says

      Burbey is such a fan of John Dewey, there are many whom blame him for kids coming out of school being mindless collectivists. People Progressives tax, and spend. When you are going to realize its not going to get any better while you keep putting these tax and spend people in office.

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  20. Daddy Rabbit says

    Why do we tolerate these “associations?” If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it is probably a union. Teachers as members of unions is ludicrous in the first place.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 4
  21. Idunnohoo says

    I cab hear David Craig chortling as you knuckleheads whine about socialized education. If you were really concerned about fiscal conservatism, you’d be jumping all over Craig for his Havre de Grace high school boondoggle and the ludicrous emergency operations center expansion, and not be wringing your hands over teachers exercising their constitutionally guaranteed rights to assemble. Hypocrites!

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    • PB says

      You’re avoiding the issue by changing the subject. Also, you’re promoting the conclusion that satisfaction with teachers is related to concern regarding other initiatives.

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      • Idunnohoo says

        “Unions have imploded auto, textiles, and manufacturing. It’s clear the same results are pending for socialized education.” -PB

        Your words, jackass. You want to talk about socialized education? Talk about socialized police, fire, military. Talk about a 25 million dollar bond for an emergency operations center. Really. I don’t know how Harford county has done as well as it has without an emergency operations center. Meanwhile, the county can’t or won’t honor its contractual obligations to teachers. If I were a teacher, I’d be working to rule every day until I was paid my due.

        How do you feel about police and fire unions? Have they ruined police and fire fighting? To claim that unions have ruined manufacturing is like claiming that a**hats like you have ruined a**hattery. And I can see from the way others on the dagger write that there is an a**hat union here. But believe me, a**hattery is alive and well, considering your continuing assumption of a human form, you a**hat.

        All of those industries you mention, a**hat, were killed by management decisions, and people’s decisions to not accept $.50 a day for a wage, like it is in China, you a**hat.

        Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5
        • UnionsKilledTwinkies says

          Well, in all fairness – unions were blamed for the death of Twinkies. Such a delicious treat, too bad all that a**hattery at the plants were to blame for their demise.

          Juding by your obvious emotional reaction, you must be “pro-union”.

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  22. PB says

    And now you change the subject by predictably moving to name calling and ridicule.

    Look, I named three unionized industries that cratered. Maybe it’s managements fault, maybe it’s the unions fault. The point remains that unions are associated with failure time and time again. They’re not good for industry, they’re not good for consumers, they’re not good for the economy. They only beneficiaries are the members.

    And hey, if you’re a union guy, then good for you — it’s your prerogative. But, think about that next time you walk through Walmart *surrounded* by Chinese crap, instead of products made by reasonably-priced American labor. There’s plenty of blame and greed to go around.

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    • Amazed. says

      Too true… I get a chuckle every time they post that pic. He looks like a cross between an accident lawyer and Larry without his Leisure Suit… Dude, seriously, this picture does NOT make you look trustworthy.

      Well-loved. Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
      • Kharn says

        I’m not sure Mr Burbey picked the photo, I wouldn’t be surprised if Dagger keeps using it intentionally because he looks like a Rt 40 used car salesman minus the gold chains.

        Well-loved. Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0
        • a parent says

          The last part of your statement has unwarranted racial and socioeconomic stereotyping implications. Is this really what you are?

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          • Kharn says

            Projecting much?
            Go down to Rt 40 today and hit the dealers between Redners and Taco Bell. Unless something’s radically changed in 4 months (when I was car shopping), they were all overweight middle-aged white dudes in too-small polo shirts, gold chains and gold rings.

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  23. ablls says

    I love my job, but if I have to pay the dues for this crap Union, I will quit my job. I started teaching in ’98 and the Union used scare tactics to get me to join. It took me less than one school year to realize this was a huge waste of time and money. I had a hard time getting someone to tell me the procedure to quit. There is NO BENEFIT to belonging to this so-caled union.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2
  24. Amazed. says

    So, I’ve scanned through a lot of these posts and I’m left thinking that if I was in the union… why not let them pass the bill, then quit the union, cut your current dues to 68% of what they were and still enjoy the benefit of the union’s stellar representation? Anything you can do to cut the politics out of the equation has to be a good thing.

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      • Amazed. says

        Oh, of course not… but once the bill is passed they’re going to take the money anyway. The victims might as well cut the thievery by 32% as long as they can. I’m just saying what I’d do. Obviously most of the money (1900 x $600 each is $1.14 million – before they expand their ranks by including the unwilling) goes into highly effective promotional advertising – like the costs of the photo shoot that produced the photo above. Gee, $1.14 million… I wonder if any of that went into lobbying for a new bill to make it an even bigger number?

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  25. Teaching for dummies says

    If you all are too stupid to negotiate your own contracts, you should not be teaching children. You should not even be teaching dog obedience classes. I work for a company with over 5000 employees. Everyone negotiates their own contract here.

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  26. B says

    I find it interesting that the teachers who are members of HCEA, an association, think that they will not be subject to union dues as well. Do you really think the MSEA (a union) is interested in maintaining the HCEA?

    Doubtful

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  27. unhappy says

    An HCPS president makes 6 figures and at least 50% of the union dues goes to the do nothings that think they are doing the HCPS system good. Gee, just think, the union, oops I mean association does NOT have a union. HCEA is NOT a union. Get the vocabulary correct. can you be forced to join something you DO NOT believe in. As a HCPS employee, I am so far behind in raises. So what did the ASSOCIATION do for many of us???? Keep paying the 6 figure salary of the ASSOCIATION president. In this day and age people better wise up. Young teachers need to realize where their money is going,how it is all political and what HCEA and NEA contributes money to. WE need to get rid of the Democrats that want such a thing. Thanks to the Democrats this country is going to hell in a hand basket. While the head honchos are resigning, why not have others resign who make 6 figures.

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    • Ryan Burbey says

      I, being the HCEA President, do not make six figures. I make teacher’s Masters+ 30 salary step 9, which is the salary step I would have made working in the classroom, plus 20 days per diem for 30 days summer work. I am also 3 steps behind where I should be. I understand and feel the frustration of all the members. We must make the fight to get the funds necessary to honor our contract and to continue funding the schools. Please attend the County Executive’s Budget Hearing on Monday February 11th 6PM at Aberdeen High School.

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