Student participation in extra-curricular activities will soon carry a new price tag in the form of pay-to-play and student activity fees instituted Monday by the Harford County Board of Education. The $50 pay-to-play fee for each sport and $25 fee per student activity will be charged to students beginning in the 2013-14 school year.
The Board set the fees affecting elementary, middle and high school students in order to raise revenue and to save teaching positions that would have otherwise been cut from the $424.7 million operating budget approved last night for the fiscal year 2014.
Board members also talked about the fees as a public wake-up call regarding the school system’s dire financial straits.
“This is just the beginning,” Board Member Cassandra Beverley said of the school system’s quest for new revenue. “We are going to look under every rock we can,” she said, adding that the public needed to know, “we may be charging for other things.” Predicting that the fees, which were not publicly discussed prior to the Monday meeting, would be a “shock” to parents, Beverley said they were a result of “desperate times.”
Earlier in the evening, the Board eliminated salary increases negotiated for all 5,400 employees next year and cut 91 teaching positions as it scaled back spending plans by approximately $20 million to match available funding. Implementation of the fees helped reduce the teacher position cuts to about 79, according to a press release issued Tuesday afternoon by HCPS.
Board Member Tom Fitzpatrick supported the fee implementation on practical, as well as philosophical, grounds: “It enrolls parents and students to save some jobs,” he said, adding with regard to funding, “We will never change the dynamic without public engagement.”
Approval of the new fees came at a board meeting packed with teachers upset over a lack of scheduled salary increases in three of the last four years.
On the plus side for teachers, the Board passed a budget amendment exempting teachers’ children from the new fees, along with those of active military personnel. Students enrolled in the government program for Free and Reduced-Price Meals (FaRMS) will also be exempt.
Board Member Bob Frisch garnered applause from teachers in attendance when he compared the fees to be paid by parents with the burden of higher class sizes for teachers and students that the fees would help mitigate.
Arguing that the school system was not obligated to provide extra-curricular activities, Frisch said that the fees were low compared to those set by the county department of parks and recreation, and the pay-to-play fees for sports would affect a relatively small number of the 38,000 students in the system.
Combined, both sets of fees will raise roughly half a million dollars next year, according to estimates made at the meeting by Jim Jewell, HCPS assistant superintendent of business services, who said that the fees would recover some of the $3.6 million budgeted by the school system for extra-curricular activities.
Of the 24 school systems in the state, Jewell also said that seven charge the fees.
The only ‘no’ votes for the new fees came from Board Member Alysson Krchnavy and Student Representative Panashe Mutombo.
“They’re not right for the community,” Krchnavy said of the fees.
Mutombo worried about the cost for families with multiple children involved in many activities, saying that some struggle now to buy necessary sporting equipment. Turning a familiar parental admonishment around on his elders, Mutombo said that just because other school systems were doing it, didn’t mean that HCPS should initiate the fees. Instead, Mutombo asked his fellow board members to consider, “Is it the right thing to do?”
Below is the list of extra -curricular activities that will henceforth carry the student participation fees of $50 per sport and $25 per activity, along with additional information about the fees provided earlier today by Teri Kranefeld, HCPS manager of communications:
“Only activities or sports where an adult is paid a stipend to coordinate the activity will be charged a fee – which are the items reflected in [the] list. There are activities where the coordinator is a volunteer – there would be no fee for that activity. However, the details of this initiative are currently being developed. More information will be forthcoming as it becomes available.”
TEACHERS…nothing will get done until you committ to NOT doing anything extra…clubs, activities, plays, sports, tutoring…anything. We NEED to do this and come together. Work to Rule isn’t enough. A message must be sent that we have had enough. Many teachers are talking about this very thing for next year.
I am as conservative as they come and I have to agree that TimelsNow is right on. Teachers are subject to a contract, whether you agree with unions or not, for which the County has reneged on for five years now. The County politicians will continue to renege on those promises unless and until they feel pain. Teachers, acting in unison, to do the job they are paid for and nothing more, will quickly grasp the attention of County parents who will increase the pain level for the politicians. The problem is that teachers, for the most part, have soft hearts and are unwilling to not go the extra mile to help a student in need or provide engaging extracurricular activities to spark students’ interest. So, they need to break through their natural inclinations, demonstrate the same level of selfishness found in the private sector and stand up for themselves. You teach people how to treat you, so start teaching them some new lessons.
Yea let’s hurt the kids
I believe the county is doing a wonderful job at that currently.
Do you need a history lesson about why there are unions in this country? Maybe you should spend a day in the life of the average person in China.
How many people have lost jobs because of unions? Companies close all the time because Unions want too much for the employees to do their jobs. Looks at Beth Steel? Unions were needed many years ago but they aren’t now a day. The only people that like Unions are the ones that need them to protect them from losing their jobs.
Wait? Almost all of the Unions are run for extreme left wing Socialists. What is going on in China is exactly what they have wet dreams about. After all its the peoples party over there.
How is that hurting the kids? You can coach…and get paid less than 2.00 an hour. (yep…I calculated it once). No teachers were hired to do these other duties. They were hired to teach. Unfortunately, you should be livid with Craig as he has pushed teachers into this position. “Yea let’s hurt the kids” = keep getting screwed and go on doing extra duties not in your contract. If anyone was really thinking about “the kids” we wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with. So spare me the drama.
No spare us the drama! Its tough all over difference is most of us work jobs that don’t have the protection afforded by tenure! Take a look around the counties newest schools does every classroom need a flat screen? Do classrooms for cooking and sewing really need computers? Pay to play is wrong no matter how you look at it!
If you believe tenure protects us… think again…. read my blog post @
http://learningbytshome.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-myth-of-tenure-is-hurting-students.html?spref=fb
And the positions being cut are for extras like computer teachers… in a district that has such potential for STEM jobs for the kids…
How many STEM jobs are willing to take just a high school diploma these days? High school computer classes are either too simple (typing) or too specific (BASIC/C++ programming) for entry-level computer jobs such as help desk work. Programming jobs all require a college degree, and dictation is pretty much limited to the medical field (and even then, those jobs are easily outsourced and require additional training) since everyone else is expected to be able to type on their own.
STEM jobs with a high school diploma? Uh, Booz Allen Hamilton will hire high school dropouts that later get a GED and the federal government will bestow upon them top secret clearance to boot after a month on the job.
Can always count on you to over analyze something and make it about something that it is not. The only important thing here is that now kids will be directly impacted by the lack of fiscal responsibilty by the Board and the lack of dedication to education by King Craig.
TESST College will bestow a Medical Assistant Certificate on anyone that comes before them and passes their course work. If you saw the advertising I saw for their program it was geared towards single mothers. A job paying about $10 to $12 an hour and giving them access to Prescription Medications, some of which are controlled substances. The medical profession appreciates their equivalent of fast food workers barely making minimum wage. But there is a flaw in grabbing someone who wants a high paying job with access to potentially serious materials that can have an adverse effect on our society. It’s the law of supply and demand and no one cares as long as their costs for the service are low, despite the potential disaster of someone who feels like making a little extra money on the side. I’m not necessarily arguing for higher pay for these positions to reduce the risk of generating money on the side because of their access. What I am suggesting is there is a reason you do background checks on people and possibly hire someone more qualified than a person who used to shake the oil off the french fries and salt and bag them.
Tell the Tenured teachers who got cut yesterday they had protection offered by tenure!
BTW a $50 fee for playing Lax is far cheaper than the actual cost or how much it would cost to sign your kid up for a rec team! I imagine if folks sit idolly by and don’t get in the game it could be going up the following year! Also note not all classrooms have flat screen TV’s get out more and look around.
And what is the gross from the gate for all of those home lax games? Rec teams do not charge to attend.
Gate receipts at school sporting events or activities are returned directly to those lines in the budget to offset the cost of those programs. These receipts come nowhere close to covering the total cost of these extras and neither will the new fees. Either county government will provide the money for these extras or fees will likely increase in the coming years, or there will be selective elimination of certain sports and activities as is happening elsewhere in the country.
Unfortunately some if those gate fees walk away and no one cares! Maybe the silver lining in this is that the scumbag who stole $10000 from the children at PMMHS a few years back was sacked yesterday. One can only hope!
Still not near enough to cover transportation for athletics!!!!!!
Will this fee be tax deductible for parents? If so, everyone needs to start itemizing.
It shouldn’t be. You pay a fee for a service!
Plenty of tenured teachers got fired yesterday. Not transferred to another school. Fired. And many of them (if not most of them) were teachers who came in early, stayed late, ran student organizations, coached sports, worked extra duties, did extra crap around the school because it needed to be done, etc. I’m just glad my wife wasn’t one of them…this time, at least.
As far as I’m concerned, the message sent to teachers was loud and clear. Do the minimum required by your contact and don’t bother with the extra-circular activities and extra duties because the pittance of extra pay you might get for it is pennies compared to what you could earn at a part time job making minimum wage and doing those extras won’t protect you from getting fired next year when Craig under-funds the school system again next year so he can polish his resume a bit more for his hopeless run at Annapolis.
Plenty of private sector folks have been let go over the past 5 years. Thankfully it seems to be subsiding. But imagine what the world would be like if all the private sectors folks got this “let’s just do the minimum and show them rule.” I feel for the folks that were let go, many of them were last in/first out casualties, can they not put together resumes and try to get jobs elsewhere like the rest of the working world? Is “Being a teacher” like being a supreme court judge or mafia, once you’re in, you are in…..
Is the private sector funded by government? People are upset because their tax dollars are not being spent effecently.
you’re right than many funds are not being spent efficiently; however, they are upset because people are losing jobs and not getting steps. However, this is what happens when budgets are formed and spent to 100% in the GOOD times. Good times do not last forever. The whole problem with governments is they base their spending on higher budgets than they really should. IT’s going to happen again because the school systems are getting money from gambling now. The novelty of gambling in MD is going to recede and the money will not be there. So guess what’s going to happen then..
Let’s take the public/private part out of this. It is contract work. Even work in the private sector can be contract work. If you are working on a contract (public or private) do you go out of your way beyond what the contract states when there is no additional compensation for services rendered. Does the company you contract to replace a roof do your siding for free because they want to go above and beyond the contract?
annyone sometimes the private sector is funded by government. Who are Northrup Gruman and other contractors biggest clients?
MK77, I actually like your points and agree with them. Then let’s stop with all the “it’s for the children talk” and from this point forward, teachers are to be considered contractors; just like CDEV mentions below, just like NG or Lockheed workers. So I say to teachers, go for it!! “work to rule” only stuff!!!!
Good, fire more of them.
If every English classroom does not have multiple computers, should areas such as foods need computers in the classroom? The media center has computers, but you need to book things up which makes it hard to lesson plan. Our school does not have a computer lab, we have one cart of 17 computers and they do not always work. So, I have classes of 33 already. Planning research papers is a nightmare and having kids do the research at home will not happen because not all students’ families have access to a computer, they work, or have to babysit younger siblings so going to the public library is out.
LOL
Talk about nanny state. When I was in school, a book was called research, not a power button and google search.
Epic Fail- And when our great, great, grandparents were in school they didn’t have electricity… so let’s go without that too! What a great way to better prepare for the 21st century. MORON. Under that logic, businesses that are struggling should not have new technology and my plumber father should go back to using hand tools- just because.
IDIOT.
You quoted me incompletely I said newer schools PMHS & Bel Air! I understand not all schools are overloaded with technology. I was pointing out that HCPS spends like drunken sailors in the good times!
No spare us the drama! Its tough all over difference is most of us work jobs that don’t have the protection afforded by tenure! Take a look around the counties newest schools does every classroom need a flat screen? Do classrooms for cooking and sewing really need computers? Pay to play is wrong no matter how you look at it!
Tenure does not equal protection in today’s world…get over yourself. No teacher is responsible for flat screen purchases, they would all rather that money be used elsewhere but no one asks us.
I teach and do not have a flat screen!
I said newer schools! From what I hear PMHS has extras in storage go grab one!
I agree that teachers are grossly underpaid, However, this DOES hurt the kids. Many parents are struggling as it is. Both parents need to work to make ends meet. So now let’s charge fees so students can’t be involved in sports/activities because the parents can’t afford it. There goes the lessons in sportsmanship and comrade. Forget college scholarships, there’s no activities listed to compete with other applicants.
And once again the middle class gets the raw end of the stick. “Students enrolled in …FARMS (reduced lunches) will be exempt” Want someone to blame? Look at Craig and OweMalley. That’s where the money went.
Yes it hurts kids but so would have cutting more teachers when your kids class size would go up more than it already will!
Face it the lower class and middle class get the raw end of the stick from David Craig as it is. He boosts how he has lowered taxes but notice. He only cuts the property tax. The tax paid by property owners. We have one of the highest piggyback tax rates in the state and he never cuts that. At least cutting that would offer all residents of Harford county a tax cut!
Everyone except those in government-provided housing pays property taxes (and even some of those deals expect the resident to pay 20% of the monthly cost), at least indirectly. Landlords amortize the property tax across the rent for the entire year, so when property taxes go up, so does the rent.
Kharn: dont confuse cdev by using common sense and reality; it gets in the way of his rhetoric.
If you rent you do not pay property taxes!!!! Your landlord does. You would have an arguement if he lowered your rent when the rate goes down!
Cdev:
Property taxes are a write-off for landlords, so he’s going to pay them from the rental income. That means the tax is a cost of doing business, and will be factored into the rent charged to the tenant.
So again if his property taxes go down does he lower the rent? I think not!
Fact is I pay over $10,000 in property taxes and my kids go to private school. Go through the slum rental townhouse communities of Abigndon when the bus comes through and they come out of the houses like locusts and the average dwelling there is paying what, maybe $2000 per year in taxes?
Now I don’t mind paying my fair share but when all you can do in life is make more babies stop sending me the bill, the day will come when I can no longer afford to pay for the education of your children.
Much as teachers can try to find jobs elsewhere, you can certainly move to a dwelling that is charged lower property taxes.
cdev:
There are more costs than just property taxes. The landlord needs to repair, replace and repaint any normal wear-and-tear after a tenant leaves, pay utilities before a new tenant moves in, etc. None of those costs have not gotten any cheaper and a declining tax bill (however rarely that occurs) is usually either insignificant or offset by inflation in other costs.
Kharn I realize that in renting there are other costs. But I bet your bottom dollar, and you can deny this if you wish, that if they all stayed the same and the landlords property tax went down $50 the rent would still remain the same. Or in the alternative if the increase in costs was $100 and property tax went down $20 the rent would go up $100 not $80. Landlords are pocketing the money. When one lowers property taxes a renter sees no tax liability decrease, direct or indirrect, from before. Craig claims to be lowering taxes but if he wanted to really lower taxes for everyone he would lower the PB tax. He doesn’t though because his developer friends benefit far more from a property tax decrease!!!!
cdev:
Property taxes going down $50 would only reduce the monthly rent by $4.17, most landlords pick prices in $25 increments. Property management is not a non-profit or a charity.
I realize it is a non-profit. You agree than that property tax decreases are not passed on to the renter.
Cicadas, the appropriate term for this year would be Cicadas not Locusts.
Cdev, So you are saying; overall, people that rent should pay less taxes than people that own property. Do people that rent use less government resources then those that own? Probably the contrary………
I am saying if you want to claim you lowered taxes for the citizens of this county, including those that rent lower the piggyback taxes. Lowering property taxes only benefits property owners and those developer friends of Craig who own lots of property!
Cdev, Some of the most regressive taxes we pay are sales tax and gas tax. And your party has rammed thru repeated increases to both of them and you have cheered them on. Stop pretending you are for the economically disadvantage. The taxes and fees increased by your party has screwed them more than anyone else and you know it.
I am an independent who is registered Republican because of the reality of this counties politics…..I don’t have a party!
Wow, are you serious. You want to charge kids to participate in extra curricular activities? Doesn’t that seem to rape the parents? Doesn’t that create a financial barrier of who can participate and who can’t? Creating class warfare in the Public Schools is even more detrimental than the actual financial burden of the programs associated with the activities. Some families are barely making it and that $50 may make the difference between having food on the table or not. This policy is going to create a dramatic divide in the Social Class between wealthier students and those less fortunate, creating tension, discrimination and a whole slew of issues that I don’t think this school system is capable of handling. Harford County, your local leaders have let you down! Instead of creating solutions they have instilled new problems. I guess somewhere in the mix everyone has forgotten that our greatest resource is our up and coming youth that will be the Harford County of the future. Someone has literally, “dropped the ball”.
There is no charge for those on free or reduced lunches.
And how much is $25 in today’s world? I tried to get my neighbor’s teenager to cut my grass a few years ago (he was already cutting his parents’ yard as a weekly chore), he wanted $50 a week to use my mower and my gas to cut my postage stamp-sized yard. Get a part time job, help a neighbor dig fence posts or seal his driveway, etc, $25 is easy to come by if you’re willing to put some effort into it. Plus, adversity makes for a better college admissions essay.
My son gets $20 each time he mows the grass Kharn. It’s shocking the number of teenagers that are simply mercenary, some will even refuse an opportunity to work for money. I have no idea why, however I have my suspicions.
Mow your own grass… That way you have less time to post on the dagger, all you do is piss people off anyway with your holier than thou attitude.
I bought a self-propelled mower and did it myself, while the neighbor’s kid was left to complain he never had any gas money for his car.
Now I have a bigger property and use a zero-turn.
I used to pay the kid behind me to cut my tiny grass lot. He was getting twenty dollars to cut a quarter acre, I supplied the gas. This year he demanded I now pay him $60 dollars to do it. He now sits in his house playing minecraft and pouting as I wave to him each time I now cut it.
Spare me the bootstrap horse pockey from an old geezer and a federal welfare(employee) recipient.
STFU and mow your grass.
Make sure you yell at the kids to stay off your entitled lawn.
That’s the only thing you two have ever agreed on.
Aren’t there extra curricular activities that students can do without schools? What about youth groups? Boy Scouts? Girl Scouts? Campfires? My point being, if individuals are looking for teachers not to sponsor extra curricular activities, students still have options outside of school that they can do. This would also look better on a resume because the school is not the only place where the individual is active. It may look great that a student is on the National Honor Society, but if everything they are in is related to school, does that show a well rounded individual? A community active individual?
We are talking about “extra” curricular activities. Athletic teams and other activities are not required for students to graduate. Ninth grade gym class satisfies the physical education requirement. There are public schools around this state that have no athletic teams and their students do just find getting into college. Other school systems in MD have been doing this for years. Fees are also a requirement as part of college tuition. Trade schools charge students for their books and training equipment. As the BOE member said this is just the beginning so get used to it. The dam has finally broken. Higher fees and fees for other things the system used to provide will be the norm. It is just new to Harford Co. and you can thank Mr. Craig and the County Council for that. Also thank the voters for putting this group of people in office that talk a good game about supporting public education but do not deliver. If you want this stuff paid for out of the existing budget change the people that decide how much money the school system gets. If I have to choose between fees or higher class sizes and lack of program offerings for my child this is an easy choice. These are just like user fees, if you use the service you pay for it if you don’t it doesn’t cost you a dime.
Which public schools (aside from alt ed) have no athletic teams? Some school systems have fees for certian electives for higher material costs. If you sit around and let the school board budget continue to get cut…..you may see them next! You don’t have to take AP Biology to graduate!
None in Harford Co. but there are others across the state and country. True, you do not need any AP course to graduate so why not have students pay a fee for that? AP classes are generally small and because of staff limitations this makes other non AP classes larger and is unfair to the majority of students, not to mention teachers not assigned AP.
Check that…many AP courses in the Bel Air area are running at or over 30. Small AP courses may be the norm in other parts of the county, but I assure you at Bel Air, Patterson Mill, Fallston, and C. Milton that the AP class sizes are usually large.
This is a factor of reducing honors level courses and the desire of the Superintendent to make himself look good by increasing the number of AP students, even if many do not belong in the class. A careful examination of overall pass rates in many AP classes, when you factor in those students that do not take the exam, is low. Tomback and Lawrence have done a wonderful job of inflating the numbers through creative statistical manipulation.
AP classes are supposed to be a college experience.
Many freshman and sophomore college classes will have 100+ students.
Good point Kharn. If we are saying these high school students are capable of doing college level academics then why not have them do it in a college level setting or environment. AP classes could be given in a lecture hall.
Where are you finding the money to build lecture halls?
Every high school already has an auditorium.
and every news site has a curmudgeon
Name the school in this state!!!!
Lee still waiting. WHich public high school in this state does not have a sports team except for alternative schools?
The school board budget was not cut. The increase of requested funds was not met. There are 300 fewer students. There are 2,000 fewer students than there was 6 years ago. When your population is shrinking, adding positions, as has happened in the past, will eventually catch up with you. There needs to be a thorough examination of the budget with a zero-based system. What expenses and positions are required to perform the job, not what was used last year and adding a percentage.
Really, my class sizes didn’t shrink.
California schools implemented pay to play fees years ago prompting the ACLU to file suit. Many districts in the state have since dropped the fees or dropped the activities. Me thinks Harford County has jumped on the caboose after the train has already run out of track.
Remember, there is a requirement for service, however this is worked into the curriculum.
This decision has obviously not been thought through-Included on the list is senior class advisors and prom. The advisors at our school were wondering if they now have to charge $25 to each 12th grader before they can be considered a senior? Do they have to charge a $25 fee on top of the price of the prom ticket? And what students are going to work on yearbook if they have to pay to do it? And the honor of making National Honor Society costs you $25?! Ridiculous!
This will create the have and the have-not tiers of education. I have many students who do not receive free and reduced lunch but whose parents live paycheck to paycheck and will not be able to afford the activity fees. So the student who is hoping to win scholarships and go to college will have nothing to put down on their application in the spaces for extracurricular activities. Those that can afford the fees will have an edge on their college applications. One of my students told me yesterday that he will have to drop out of football because there’s 4 kids in his family and he’s been involved in 6 clubs his first 3 years of high school but since his parents can’t afford the $150 for his clubs and those of his siblings, since he’s the oldest, he’s going to have to get a job to pay for them himself-which means no time for football.
As I said in a previous post, some of my students come from households that don’t value education and keep their grades up only because it keeps them on the team-remove that motivation and they have no reason to bother. So will athletic teams be based not on skills and athleticism but who can afford to pay? And will payment be required up front? What if the child quits the team or gets injured? What if a parent pays and their child sits the bench? Does ‘pay to play’ mean they have to play no matter what? Do they get a refund if they don’t? What if the parent doesn’t pay? Is the student kicked off the team? Does the coach now have to be an accountant as well to keep track of fees?
As a parent I have a hard decision to make-pay the fees or don’t let my child participate to send a message to the board of ed that this is the worst decision they could make. If enough students do not pay the fees next year to the point that there aren’t enough players to field a particular team or run a club so it shuts that program down-does that mean that the expected revenue this was supposed to generate would cause the county to lay off the 12 teaching positions this was supposed to save? Is anybody at the Board of Ed actually thinking?
I love what I do, I’m good at what I do and my students succeed because of that-but I will definitely be meeting with my financial advisor and making some hard decisions about my career path this summer. This county’s residents have no respect for it’s teachers and blame our profession for everything that is going wrong in the county. You wouldn’t walk in and tell your dentist how to fix your teeth or tell the road crew how to lay the asphalt…but everyone went to school and thinks that based on your own personal experience you are now an expert in education. No training – just your own personal experiences as a child. Well, without us (and all our college educations) pushing your kids to success so schools get recognized for quality….you can kiss your property values goodbye as people realize that Harford County is not the place to raise your children and guarantee them a quality education.
Thank the CE and CC for putting the BOE in this position. Your anger is misplaced.
Sorry, Lee, but it was HCPS and BOE that made the decision on how to spend the money.
That is like asking the condemned to decide if they prefer hanging, a firing squad, gas chamber, electric chair or lethal injection. A choice but not much of one.
Lee: you don’t know what you’re talking about.
We shall have to agree to disagree.
National Honor Society charged dues when I was in school.
Yes, same here. However, students will now have to pay the county fee PLUS the normal dues. Not the end of the world, I know. But still, if you have an involved kid these fees will add up quickly.
And I wouldn’t go to a dental or physician practice that had too many office staff and too few actual practicioners. See, in the real world, decisions are made that minimize support staff and maximize the people who deliver the actual services. In the education industry those people who ‘deliver services’ are called teachers.
Jaguar Judy- Did you fail out of high school or something? Did a teacher treat you poorly? I am just wondering where so much animosity can come from something you know little about. I invite you into my classroom next year. Then make an informed decision.
Judy is only saying what many other teachers have been saying on this site. Save teaching position because that is where the service is delivered. All other positions are support personnel and need to be scrutinized as to their necessity and therefore first to be cut. What is wrong with that approach? I don’t agree with a lot of her other views but in this case she is correct.
My question is this…are students allowed to fundraise to get that fee? What if there were preseason fundraisers?
I think that’s a much better idea than asking taxpayers to subsidize a long string of activities that have nothing to do with education.
There are a large number of fundraisers already to pay for extras, like new uniforms, scoreboards and upgrades to equipement and fields. Do we really need one more fundraiser to cover a fee that should not exist in the first place?
This has been tried in years past and eventually failed. Many families don’t have the extra cash for sports and activity fees. Dumb, Dumb, Dumb move on Harford County. Harford County Admin needs to look within to tighten up its administration budget and eliminate its waste.
Also, newer teachers in the system have been hit hard financially because their salaries have been frozen for several years now and they are on the lower end of the pay scale. Teachers not in the union will now be hit with about a $400 fee which is a loss in their net pay whether they want the representation or not. It seems the Harford County Education System doesn’t really care about keeping the best of the best teachers. It needs to make hard decisions and eliminate teachers not doing their job and keep the best and the brightest to educate students.
The school system has eliminated over 200 positions that provide direct classroom support for students over the last three years. There was an attempt to reduce central office positions at the last BOE meeting. You can look for yourself to see which BOE members supported that idea. BOE members will be up for election next time too.
Well, let’s look at it another way: that would mean that teachers who didn’t want representation would be excluded from the salary, benefits, and other aspects of the negotiated agreement between the union and the board. That would mean a number of teachers would have to negotiate directly with the board. Does anyone really believe the board is going to give isolated teachers a better deal than thy are giveing teachers en masse? How much time do you think the board would actually take to negotiated with individuals? And if the board didn’t want to deal with such people and the time, effort, and money involved in “signing” them, they could just fire them and hire people who will “play ball”.
I think it would be a fascinating thing to see.
All teachers receive the representation regardless. Would it be fair if someone to receive a payraise or benefits because they do not pay for negotiation fees in other areas of life? No. If teachers choose not to pay the fee, then they should choose not to be represented at all at the negotiation tables.
They do that, they reward competence with more work and incompetence with promotions.
Why am I going to have to pay for my child to take chorus when it is his completer course that he needs to graduate? If he doesn’t take it he will need to find a new completer and figure out how to finish in two years. I understand the need for parents to pay and participate, but for us to pay for classes that are required to graduate is a bit ridiculous. These kids are not in college yet, they should not have to pay to complete school, play in sports, ok I understand that, I don’t agree with it but I understand it.
Students are not being charged a fee for classes. If you child belongs to an after school club or organization that requires a paid staff member then they will need to pay the fee.
You will not have to pay for the class Chorus or Band but to do the extras, not included in the class like being in the marching band or school play etc. You will need to pay for that. Marching band uniforms cost money, sets cost money, etc. Where is the funding for that supposed to come from or would you rather they just cut the chorus teacher and only offer a general music class to meet your kids fine arts requirement. No Band, No Chorus, No Drama, etc!
Want it to change……take it up with the County Council and County Executive! I am sure David Craig will send you a very polite response!
EXCEPT….the part you are overlooking is that participating in marching band activities is a required part of being in band class. Students can’t take band and not show up to the football games or parades. They can’t take chorus and not come to the concerts or other performances. These performances are part of the students grade. So in essence, yes, the students WILL be charged for taking the class, as they can’t take the class and opt out of the “extracurricular” aspect of it.
There is no way a fee can be charge for classes. Concerts and marching band will be made not required for class and a fee to participate will be accessed
Ok…so what happens when not enough kids are “paid members” and there are not enough kids to do a performance? A big part of being in band or chorus is learning to perform, but now not only can’t you require it, you can’t allow kids who haven’t paid to do it even if it makes the difference between being able to have a concert or not. And who’s going to keep track of all this? Is the teacher going to be expected to constantly make the distinction between the “performers” and the “non-performers”?
This opens a real can of worms.
Marching band can certainly be separated from band class (at my high school they were basically separate entities, though virtually everyone in band class was in the marching band with the exception of a couple kids who played football or another fall sport.)
There’s no feasible way to separate concerts from band class. Basically the whole point of band class is learning how to play your instrument and rehearsing for concerts. It only takes losing a couple of people to make performing a particular piece impossible.
No being in the marching band is not a required part of being in the class. Your band teacher has been not telling you the truth. They all do this. Ask the music supervisor. Anything not done during the school day can not be held against your grade without providing you with an alternative assignment during the day!!!!
Cdev is right! (Wow that hurt! LOL) This band/chorus vs. sports is just heating up I am afraid. #1 Why charge more for sports over band/chorus? #2 Why charge admission to sporting events but not to concerts? My daughter played a varsity sport and I attended as many games as possible along with my wife and two younger children at $5.00 a pop The way I see it I paid close to $200.00 for my daughter to play!
While I am at it, so many supporters are pointing out that it is the same as paying for Rec sports, well if thats the case I expect every playing member of each team to be given equal playing time! We all know that will be a major point of contention for many parents!
Everyone will agree with someone once in a while. It shouldn’t hurt!
Schools across this country have graduated quality students that never participated in any extra curricular activity. The school system simply cannot be all things to all people. If the choice is having my child taught by a quality biology teacher who has the supplies necessary to teach the class and paying for a volley ball coach that is an easy one for me. Most students in our school system do not participate in extra curricular activities so why should their parents pay for them. The fees being charged only cover a fraction of the costs associated with these extras. Legally school systems need not provide any of these extras and many don’t. The choice could have been to abandon all these extras as other school systems have done. Colleges are dropping entire sports programs and even whole departments. Again thank the CE and CC for their funding decisions.
Sorry, Lee, but it was the BOE that made the decisions on how to spend their budget. They, along with HCPS, decided which positions to cut. They decided to cut teaching positions rather than other stuff including admin and central office positions. They don’t get a free pass on this. People seem to like to bash the CE and the CC whenever HCPS doesn’t get all of the money it wants and because of poor choices made by HCPS. If you want to hold the CE and the CC accountable for HCPS then let the CC set the HCPS budget line item by line item.
Those decisions were the produce of budget limitations mandated by the CE and confirmed by the CC. There was an effort to adjust admin and central office positions in favor of classroom teacher positions which the majority of the BOE did not support. Those BOE members shoulder that responsibility but that does not relieve the CE and CC of their culpability in this sad story.
Judy has a point Lee. HCPS and the BOE are the ones who represent the needs of the Public Education System and should be the proponent for funding. Simply asking for more money does not obviate their responsibility to spend the money the do get wisely. Just because they did not get a program they want funded is no reason to axe people who are performing work on the ground. The decision of how to spend limited funds lies squarely with the decision makers at BOE and HCPS.
Keep that statement in mind when furloughs become firings at the APG.
Do you have any involvement in anything at APG or are you spitballing? And we were talking about he school budget, is your point more personally motivated than relevant to this discussion?
Let he without his hand in the pocket of the taxpayer cast the first stone.
Do you think monetary mismanagement applies only to the school budget? I give you more credit then that but I suppose hypocrisy is not beyond you.
I’m sure APG spends every dollar with judiciousness in mind.
I am related to one of the Board Members. I go to a percentage of the Board Meetings. When the awards for things like Destination Imagination are given, the room is packed. When that moment is done, the room clears out. The reporters and the school officials are all that is left. WHERE ARE YOU ???
Craig knows this degree of apathy exists. He is banking on the ” I am to busy generation”. The key statement that was brought up by the board members was, ” What is the primary mission of the system ? Education! ” The programs that can be manipulated are limited. Athletics and bus transportation were mentioned. They are not mandated, Come and get “Educated” .
Maybe if the kids and parents stayed at the meeting it would be a good civics lesson. It would be nice to require that students watch one meeting (since they are televised and recorded even those who can’t go can watch).
This is the moment things will begin to change. Many (not all) parents are not too concerned about class sizes nor teacher cuts. However now that they will have to pay for sports and extra activities, you are getting their attention. Watch for the outpouring from angry parents now that Billy has to pay $50 to play football!
SAVE THE TEACHERS????? Are you kidding? They let 80 teachers go this year & just about the same last year! HURT THE CHILDREN????? What about the loss of teachers with no replacements? Now the children will be in larger classes, getting less personal attention. Sports are great; however, that is not the prime focus of school. If the football coaches all implemented the “Work to Rule” as it should be, they would reverse this in a minute. Can you imagine the entire county without a football team to represent their school next year? Then maybe more than a few parents would see the light!
I totally agree with you. No football teams would cause a re-think of this policy.
It is sad that the higher class sizes and mis-treatment of teachers doesnt cause public out cry
Better yet, cut all after-school activities. If there is a demand, then let parents step up to the plate work it as a volunteer public service.
And while they’re at it, cut the lunch programs too. That’ll surely save some money. Brown bag lunches have worked fine for many, many years.
I don’t know where this idea came from that states the government school system has to be the big nanny for the youth of America.
No local funding goes to lunches.
So the food and cafeteria works come with no cost? The better question is why are we even serving food at school? If we’re preparing them for the real world them they should know that most places of employment don’t have eating amenities. Cutting lunch programs would save a lot of time and money.
Yes, that’s right. We’ve got to teach these first graders that in the real world they won’t have the luxury of a cafeteria that serves shrimp poppers and baby carrots.
Believe it or not, for a lot of kids the school is the only place they get a decent meal. There are kids that rely on school for both breakfast or lunch. Or perhaps we should take all the kids who get free or reduced lunches and make them get jobs so they can EARN their meals. Make them sweep the school floors and empty the classroom garbage can. After all, in the “real world” no one is going to give you free meals, and we owe it to them to prepare them for this reality.
I’m not going to make a comment on the quality of your statement. I think it speaks for itself.
My point is that schools functioned fine before the implementation of bloated lunch programs. I bet if we laid down mattresses they might get a better rest than home as well. However, the government schools can’t be a one-stop nanny shop. There are costs to all of these add-on “essentials”.
I also believe parents should provide their own transportation to and from school, but you probably already figured that out.
In other words, let’s do verbs and nouns and numbers and learn to read maps. We don’t need the school to be all-providing nanny.
Right. Should the schools provide heat as well? Or should each child bring their own can of Sterno?
BLOATED lunch programs? You’ve obviously not eaten a school lunch lately…
Many places of employment with a workforce the size of a school do indeed have facilities for eating within or close by.
Comparing schools to private industry is a phallicy.
I don’t claim to be an expert of any topic; however, I do have my opinions. I think so many folks are blaming Harford County for too many things here. They are not in the clear, but I don’t believe they deserve the heat that is coming down on them.
I would like to step out on a limb and ask when the Board of Education is going to open up their “books” for an audit? Is the shortfall in their budget due to irresponsible spending? If so, how is charging families a bunch of fees going to charge those spending habits? Is the Board of Education required to have a balanced budget? My employer requires us to prove we need to buy copier paper and pens (not the fancy pens, but the ones that come ten in a bag). I would truly like to see a public accounting of the Harford County Board of Education’s funds.
Why are teacher’s children exempt from the fees? Is their money any different than mine? I resent the fact that I have to pay for all three of my children, but a teacher doesn’t! I am not trying to start anything here, but, by this standard, if I worked for the government, I should be exempt from paying taxes because those taxes would pay my salary. Or if I worked in an auto assembly factory, I shouldn’t have to pay to buy the car I am building. A teacher’s money is US currency and should be used the same way everyone else’s is used. EVERYONE should have to pay these fees, even free and reduced.
The Board of Education is starting to sound like Congress by enacting rules and regulations that aren’t the same across the board for everyone. Please remember that when you point your finger at someone else, four are pointing back at you! Placing blame for financial woes has to start at home (like a lot of other things should!). Look within for the solutions to these problems. The public is not to blame. The County is not to blame. Families have to go on a budget to afford all of these extras for the children, then so should the School Board.
School system budget and books are open to public inspection. Why aren’t you asking the same of county government expenditures? Did you come out to any of the public hearings offered by the BOE, CC, or CE to express your views on how they should properly spend your money? This is the all to common reaction of people that did not engage themselves in the process and later complain when they find out something they don’t like. Each had they opportunity to express their opinion about budget priorities before these decisions are made. Looking within includes the public of which you are a part.
Well at the Board meeting, it was specifically disclosed that the pay to play fee scheme was never proposed or discussed in public before that meeting and the vote being taken. Hard to comment on budget actions when they are kept in complete darkness until a public vote.
Same thing happens at CC meeting when amendments are put in. Happens all the time in government. But pay to play has been raised during BOE budget meetings for the last two years so it should have come as no surprise this was a possibility. Amendments about transportation were not shown before hand either although it was brought up at previous BOE meetings. The same is true about likely teacher cuts but no hard numbers were offered ahead of time.
I have been to many Board of Estimates and County Council meetings, and, yes, have spoken with the County Executive. My opinion is not kept to myself, I can assure you of that. Unfortunately, not everyone can say the same thing. I view this as similar to voting…if you don’t go out to vote, don’t dare complain.
You have the right to complain anytime you want.
You could attend meetings and you should, however you can voice your opinion at at any time you want.
Heck you don’t have to vote toexkpress your views.
Be well and speak!
I know. These teachers who have been denied step increases four of the last five years are supposed to accept the fact that they have lost thousands upon thousands of dollars, and that’s ok. They also sponsor clubs, activities, and sports during after school hours for a pittance, and a lot of times for free, and that’s ok. And if they dare complain or suggest not working with other people’s kids after school hours on the cheap, they are greedy and ungrateful, and that’s ok.
But give these same people a $25 or $50 dollar perk, and scream bloody murder at the gross injustice and unfairness of it all.
Yes ONLY non-teaching parents are greedy and ungrateful. Teaching parents are all tolerant and generous and altruistic. Parents NEVER donate their time and personal funds to do ANYTHING at the school (sarcasm intended).
The reality of the current economic times is that MOST parents have experienced loss of raises, benefits, increased health costs in addition to rising cost of living…for the teachers to continually bash the parents because of the school budget doesn’t do anything to help their cause…I have no problem with cutting extracurricular activities, or charging students to play, but please stop pretending that there is anything fair about the children of teachers playing by a different set of rules than all the other children and that all of your problems are a result of the parents. If you want sympathy for your economic hardships from the parents how about opening your eyes to the fact that other people who aren’t employed by Harford County Public School system are facing the same economic hardships.
Yes but the teachers have been the ones showing up at budget meetings asking for more funds for your kids….have you?
No, I realize that the biggest problems with the current school system have nothing to do with the budget.
No, I don’t believe the biggest problem with the school system is the budget, and while I can see that the budget WOULD be a very significant concern for school employees and their spouses, that doesn’t give them the right to blame everything going wrong in their lives on parents, or mean that their opinions are any better for the kids…you know the people the school system is supposed to serve….
No one is…They didn’t make this policy. They will have to impliment it. No one says they are more special but obviously some people have sat on their rear and now that this issue, which has been boiling for 5 or more years has gotten this big and effects them, they all the sudden get mad.
Harford Mom,
Can you tell us what the bigger issues facing the current school system are? Please be specific.
Do you really think that the money is going to go to the teacher? Not happening!
No kidding it hasn’t happened…………that’s the point!! I’m sure every teacher in the state would be thrilled with this approach.
The Board of Ed is audited regularly. They have to have a balanced budget. You sound like someone who just started caring about the budget.
I do care about the budget; however, never felt the urge to speak (in a forum such as this) about it. Why now? Because I have had enough of all of the finger pointing, mud slinging, and “name calling”!
People lose jobs – it’s an unfortunate fact of life. And, yes, some of those people are teachers. I do feel sorry for those who lost jobs. I feel bad for anyone who loses a job due to reasons beyond his/her control; I’ve lost a job that way myself. Schools seems to be surrounded by a hands off “bubble”. But real life has reared it’s ugly head and teachers got fired. Why would it have been ok to fire adminstrative employees (as was one comment in this forum)? A job lost is a job lost – a family affected – a life changed. Teachers shouldn’t be immune to this. That is my main point.
Teachers are wonderful! I believe that most of them are “called” to teach. And, yes, most of them put a lot of extras into the job. But, guess what? So do I at my job. I come in early, stay late, take that extra phone call to help whoever is on the other end. I take work home. My husband helps me when I have stuff spread out all over the dining room table because I’m working on a major project. Why would it be any less of a tragedy if I lost my job? If one of my children is playing a sport that a teacher’s child plays, why should my child be charged for it and not the teacher’s?
Thoughts on pay to play.
1. I assume there is no problem with Booster Clubs covering the cost for the students in the school? A little more fundraising efforts by those involved and no one needs to sit on the sidelines because of a lack of personal funds to pay the fee.
2. Why should a cross country runner that brings his own sneakers pay the same as a football player that wears hundreds of dollars worth of equipment playing on a million dollar turf field?
3. Does the fee create a competitive advantage for Route 40 area schools’ sports programs which have a higher percentage of fee waivers due to the FARM and military exemptions?
4. Is the fee tax deductible, since it lessens the burden of government?
5. At the Board meeting, we saw the fee get enacted and then raised 25% from the original proposal immediately. There is little doubt as the BOE’s finances continue to worsen under the weight of Obama’s great recession, the fee will be the subject of future increases by a board incapable of making the necessary cuts at the administrative level.
6. How many front office people will they now hire to police the fee collection policy?
1. You are correct.
2. The same reason everyone pays taxes for roads, schools, etc. but does not necessarily use them. Not always fair but reality.
3. I think not.
4. No.
5. Future fee increases? Probably. Future cuts to administration? Elect BOE members that support that idea. Some already do.
6. None.
George Bush’s recession brought on by your denial over how awesome we are and how easy it was to borrow money instead of keeping spending within your revenue stream. Did you pay extra for your elective war? Perhaps a user fee should have been enacted for everyone watching the fireworks on Faux News
People who live in glass houses…
Are other HCPS employees (such as cafeteria workers, janitors, etc) exempt from these fees?
No only teachers I heard. That truly sucks.
surrounding counties already have pay to play.
Obama care health tax increase – massive coming
Gas tax – massive
Wind tax – MOM blatant cronyism
Obama EPA Rain Tax
Pay roll tax hike
other taxes on the way
where does it stop.
When you pay for the services you receive from government without borrowing from China. When you elect officials truly interested in reigning in cost. When you begin to realize that one man’s policy is another man’s fraud, waste and abuse. When you stop trying to get more out of your elected official for local benefits that come at the cost of people in other communities and states
It stops when we start cutting from the top down and make the people who make the spending decisions feel the pain directly.
Sorry but a few of you high paid fed boys might need to go in that scenario.
So what is to stop a school from charging an extra $1 or $2 admission surcharge to its sporting and cultural events and using that money to cover the pay to play fee for students? The school system gets their money either way, the student is not disenfranchised for an inability to pay, and those members of the public that chose to support these programs by attending pay a whole extra buck for their entertainment. Seems like the work-around is pretty simple.
$1-2 wont even cover it!!!!
Well, at least we could start doing some arithmetic. Bel Air Drama Company gets 1,200 people to attend its major production over 3 days x $2 surcharge = $2,400 divided by $25 fee = 96 students covered. Football game draws 250 paying customers per game x $2 surcharge x 5 home games = $2,500 divided by $50 fee = 50 students covered. Basketball game draws 100 paying customers x $2 surcharge x 10 home games = $2,000 divided by $50 fee = 40 students covered. And so on…
They already pay an admission fee, which you now suggest raising. These are the same people that have already paid the new sports/activities fees. Enough already.
I thought this is why the lottery and gambling were legalized to help the school system.
Yes, and I have some pristine land in Florida that I’m willing to sell to you. Also, a friend in Nigeria who needs your assistance with a financial transaction!
Hahahaha
The politicians promised the gambling taxes would go towards schools, they never promised the gambling taxes would increase school funding. For every tax dollar coming from the slot machines, the General Assembly gets to send one less dollar to the education fund, letting them use it for pork.
It was always a bait and switch routine.
Your insight is as always, amazing.
I lolled at “Let the parents get involved.”
I wonder if the BOE knows thats most of the money in government comes from the people that live in the area they serve?
Ridiculous. This whole thing is ridiculous.
Why would anyone be a coach now? You already have obsessive parents who criticize the coach when their darling child doesn’t play enough or the team doesn’t win. By instituting pay-for-play, every parent will begin to act like their child deserves to play more because they paid for the child to be on the team. They will begin to think they have control over coaching decisions because they are “paying the coach’s salary”.
Thanks, HCPS, for bringing everything that is bad about college athletics to our high schools.
concerned, Awesome point. I think you are going to see more parents come out of the woodwork now as it pertains to sport related items. Many that have never cared about the academic side of school.
When you “pay to play” you do deserve to play. Everyone says this is no different then Rec well fine then every member of the team who paid to be there deserves equal playing time every game!
What a load of ____! So what exactly do our taxes pay for? This move makes it abundantly clear that the State and County are not competent to control our children’s education. A few weeks ago a few libs were slamming the comparison in cost between our beloved public education and John Carroll – stating that there were all sorts of “additional costs.” Well here you have it – our all inclusive public education is anything but all-inclusive. School supplies, class trips and now sports – shame on the administrative thugs at every level of public education!
It’s something that I have an obvious interest in, but I’m interested to see how this affects the high school journalism and yearbook classes.
My experience may be out of date, but in my time at BAHS, both were only available as elective classes which were part of the English Department’s curriculum, not a club open to all. Work on either publication was primarily done during class, though we students and our teacher stayed long after school (7 or 8 p.m.) several nights a week six times per year to put the paper to bed, and I remember yearbook kids doing something similar during their own crunch time toward the end of the school year.
These weren’t after-school activities or clubs–to my knowledge, you could not write for the newspaper or work on the yearbook without actually being in the class. For the newspaper, you had to take the intro-level course one year before moving on to the advanced course as a junior and/or senior, a class in which the only grade was producing the newspaper. The after-school time was an unofficial but necessary requirement of the course.
Both classes are listed as being subject to the activity fee on the chart Cindy obtained (second column, “Yearbook/Forensics/H.S. Newspaper”). Like the band director, it’s an “extra duty” for the teacher, but it’s also part of the curriculum–seems like a gray area.
Oh, there is plenty of GRAY AREA- in MUCH of what HCPS (and MSDE) plan to implement this coming school year, with no idea how. And no answers to your questions from anything that will be implemented nonetheless…and count…and be a complete dysfuctional mess- even more so than before. It’s really much easier to just implement something and spend millions on it- and see how it goes- solve the problems as they come up- and just not worry about any of it.
All y’all sound dumb y’all need to be thinking at the kids that are playing these sports need to have money to put up with these sports also if your child plays a sport where you have to buy equipment that cost money not including homecoming and prom all I am saying is just think people
What about sports like Tennis where the school doesn’t provide uniforms or equipment for the kids other than tennis balls (which most players have anyway), think EHS. Why not pro-rate the fee depending on what the school invests in the sport? Most kids in half the schools will not have to pay the fee anyway. Just saying…
In my thirty years as a Harford Teacher we had one period of time when county government understood that an outstanding public school system was a primary driver of economic growth. Exec Jim Harkins and council president Gunther Hirsch helped us improve compensation, protect and modernize benefits, and improve conditions for students. That brief moment in history’s accomplishments are undergoing an undoing. HCPS will always be decent because of the efforts of the teachers. It never will be great if we continue to have incompetents in government, a dictator in the superintendent’s office and a bunch of spineless wimps on the BOE. It blows my mind that we still have boe members who are mystified by the convoluted inefficient and stupid budget process. We knew that in 63, 73, 83, 93, and 03. Now we hear the same clueless moaning and groaning from at least one board member.
Harford County you get what you deserve.
Paul Schatz
Former President of HCEA
Maryland Teacher of the Year 1987
And a damn good educator.
Please tell us what the BOE should have done under the circumstances.
I believe he is mostly referring to county government. The issue with the BOE is that most are so far removed from the world education that they cannot possibly understand all of the intricacies and needs the system has. They appeared overwhelmed Monday.
He was very specific about the BOE being spineless wimps. Lets hear him explain that and offer his wisdom on what they should have done given the fiscal constraints given them. And Mr. Schatz please be specific.
My referral to spineless wimps refers to the history of the BOE during the past 40 years. Board after board has bowed to the wishes of county government and has never never never united with other interest groups to lobby and pressure councils and executives, with the distinct exception of Boe member ANNE STERLING who used to participate with teachers and parents as we lobbied and demonstrated. BOE members throughout my career and up to the pr3sent refuse to recognize that elected officals have reelection as theirhighest priority. Exhibit A …Craig wants to be governor and is ready to say to voters how proud he is of belt tightening. The BOE additionally has a tradition of bargaining in bad faith. During my tenure as union president we worked hard to bring interest based bargaining into the process but were blindsided by the Super’s executive staff and by board members such as Mark Woolkow and Bob Thomas.
I’m here in Florida collecting my very modest pension with no regret having been a damn good teacher. However I cannot look away as my professional brothers and sisters are being screwed. There is no doubt in my mine that teachers are in general underpaid in the US. HCEA is not demanding the type of salary that will ensure that the top college graduates enter the profession.All they want at this point is for the integrity of thesalary scale be honored with an additional modest bump. With rare exceptions, they have been screwed both in good and bad times.
Please excuse the typos. Hard to compose on my phone.
There might be one or two of your ANNE STERLING’S on the school board. Watch the meetings and decide for yourself.
Everything I’m reading in this post is about the incompentent administration, BOE and the teacher’s union. Would everyone get off this sinking barge! We are talking about education – a system that has been owned by State and County for many decades now. There are taxes that are always paid by our residents – this is allegedly funding education. Now citizens are hoodwinked by the phony casinos for school cash scam under King Marty and none of the talk is about the education. I realize that every element of public education must be funded and those funds have a limit but the problems are so clearly political and administrative that it is sickening! The only way to clean a pool is to shock it. I fear that the only way to clean this cesspool is to make a drastic voucher-type change that forces choices and eliminates the undesired “services”.
How about the BOE cut from the top or from their-selves that would have been a hard but right decision. Instead the reach to the bottom with teacher/IA’s and then tax students and parents for clubs and sports. Some of these so called clubs are part of the students requirements/ class studies to graduate. How about making the students pay for their required service hours.
Listen-seriously-there is plenty of money out there to give the teachers! Don’t believe for one minute BOE is doing anything in the best interest of our kids at this time. Anyone want to explain what an “IF” does for our school system? How much money do they make and how many teachers could we save if we cut that position? How about people that get moved to teach our children who use to work at the main school building doing very important jobs & did something wrong-but get moved to teach our kids at what salary? Do they now have tenure even though they have not been a teacher in 20 years? Did you all know that before school was even over with students-teachers were brought in and told they were let go-and then had to go back and teach.Loosing 3-5 teachers at one school-yet the big money makers are sitting pretty this weekend-while others’ are panicked. If you are going to cut positions-start at the top-not at the bottom.Also,if you are moving staff because they are in trouble for something-STOP putting them back in a classroom with kids. Even if you think teachers have nothing to complain about and summers off-ask yourself about the higher up people and what they do everyday-and how much they make.Teachers/supports staff-give so much of themselves everyday-and you should spend a month in your kids classroom before you make any comments on here-see what money the classroom teacher uses on her own class and the needs of the children. BOOKBAGS,PAPER,prizes,homework needs,clothing(shoes shirts),lunch bags,teaching needs-these are not given to teachers-they use their own money. There are support staff that provide basic needs for kids-when they can’t even afford to get themselves extras!You want to pay teachers per hour-go ahead-because right now you are getting a bargain rate. All of these members of BOE-should spend some real time in a school before they are allowed to make one decision about cutting teachers and not giving steps and such. I would never sit in the “cheap seats” making decisions about a job I had little or no experience in.Every year this gets worse and worse-who is going to step forward with a new plan? DAVID Craig? WHO? We will be sitting in the same position next year with great teachers loosing their jobs and going to another county.Makes me sick to my stomach to hear “in the best interest of our children”. It is only in the best interest of our children when a teacher is sticking up for their career-then they are mocked and belittled for not caring about the kids. Terrible terrible what is happening-and no one seems to be able to improve a thing.Even the Supertintendant is giving up and moving on-he did a great job-whats his salary again????????????????????????????????????????
Bev, Very well written. I appreciate your compassion. Let me ask. Do you happen to be one of Harford county’s fine teachers? Just curious…
Not anymore-retired last year.Still have a lot of friends working for HCPS and I meet with them regularly. I have another full time job now working for an insurance agency. Makes my heart sad all of this nonsense. I guess what gets me most-is that the people who sit in the BIG seats-make decisions based on no experience or visits in the schools at all. One visit a year-does not make a person understand fully what goes on in the classroom. When I was at an elementary school about 15 years ago-BOE members actually experienced my job for a week. Even though thats not a huge amount-they got it! Cutting the teachers first is wrong-on so many levels.I would love to see BOE members go spend a month in a TITLE 1 school and then report back. Let them call the parents with no working telephone number, let them send homework home or notes home with no return, let them explain to parents how homework is a priority-even though they are homeless living in a hotel.I can accept any decision after they do that!
Bev,
Well said!!
“I think we’ve done what’s in the best interest of the children, at least in the short term, for now. Hopefully we can get some things straightened out and make some nice choices moving forward in next year’s budget,” Harford County School Board President Rick Grambo said.WBAL had this on their news site. MR GRAMBO-I challenge you to go work in a title 1 school for 30 days-and still think cutting teachers is the best decision. Bring your sneakers sir…and extra pencils,pens,crayons-along with patience, and a good sese of humor sir-you are going to need it. ARE YOU UP FOR THE CHALLENGE ???? Report back here after-we expect a full report. Tell us what you experience. Oh and by the way sir-you are to live on a first year teachers salary for the entire 30 days-good luck to you.How you could say cutting teachers is in the best interest of the children-is showing your TRUE colors ……FOGGY!
You keep putting the same tax and spend Democrats back into office, can’t blame anyone but yourselves. The money ISN’T there. How many of you actually thought that the lottery was going to be a “cash cow” for public education? That money pit got raided and spent other places.
So the $125,000 they are paying an “IF” would not help keep teachers in the classroom?(I would say that might save 4 teachers an IF). I am a registered Republican-sometimes vote independantly too.Believe me-cutting teachers is not the way! Start at the TOP first-how many schools need an “IF”? How many Asst. Superintendants do we need?How many HR “big -wigs” does one county need? Go visit the Roberty Building…report back.
tax and overspend democrats or borrow and spend republicans
same endpoint
I wonder which four elementary schools will have the fourth tier bus service? This alters their school day to 9:30 to 4:00. That will change many parents’ before and after school child care plans.
This is a disaster in the making. A brand new mandated curriculum will be front and center beginning August 2013. Teachers have not been given much time to familiarize and prepare. Now our fine elected employees have stirred up a hornet’s nest by screwing around with these people.
man I live on this site….
I’m confused…what happened to all of that casino $$ that was supposed to go to schools? Were the voters really sucked into that nonsense?
the usual political bait and switch
Those who voted for the increased gambling never bothered to read the fine print.
The gambling money replaced existing state money and did not add to it.
zero sum game for education funding and the people bought right into it
congratulations to those that for it
I really don’t see a problem with charging these fees. Not one student is REQUIRED to participate in extra-curricular activities. If a student wants to participate in a after school club/sport they have THE WHOLE SUMMER to come up with $25/$50. Seriously if a student or their parents can’t save that small amount of money over then next 8-10 weeks then I don’t feel sorry for them. In stead of spending all summer laying around doing nothing get a part time job for the summer, is it really that hard? Maybe they will discover that working and making money is better then the club/sport they want to be part of and not even sign up. Yes it’s not fair but the sooner the kids find this maybe the more productive they will be when the are no longer in school. Pay to play I have no problem with that.
Hey Brian – what about the family with 3 kids that play 3 sports and also participate in various clubs? Who gave the Board of Education Taxing authority?
Well perhaps some prioritization is in order or perhaps you should tak to the funding source for schools and tell them your tale.
For that matter, who said the Board of Ed has to sponsor/sanction extracurricular activities in the first place? There’s no law that says the schools have to have a football, baseball, softball, soccer, basketball, field hockey, swimming, tennis, lacrosse, wrestling, or golf team. And there is certainly no law that says they have to pay for it either.
And what about a family with three kids? Priorities indeed. I grew up in a family with four kids; we all couldn’t have everything we wanted just because we wanted it. I had to choose which things were most important to me so that my sisters and brother could get what was most important to them. That’s life.
Does Dick’s Sporting Goods give free baseball gloves or lacrosse sticks to families just because they can’t afford to pay for it? No. But the school system should give away free services that have nothing to do with education?
Did you ever hear of the word NO? I sure as hell did as a kid, pick something and do it we couldn’t afford to pay for 3-4 different things. But tough, pick what you really want to do and pay for it the rest sorry the funds aren’t there. They are big kids if the high schoolers haven’t heard that word by now then they are in BIG trouble. 3-4 kids 75-100 dollars one sport/club.
If you want to adopt this mentality of pay for everything, let’s open it up. Let’s go ahead and “pay for credits” like college – and let’s open up the selection of where the kids go to school. You see where this goes? You get to a complete overturn of the current concept of public schools – good or bad it is a drastic change. However, as noted in many posts here, it is widely known that we have an administrative problem more than a “teacher problem” or even a teacher pay problem. Why on earth does public education require more layers of administration than an onion skin?? How many cents on a dollar received goes to a teacher’s pay? This is what needs to be stopped and reversed – we continue to spend our system bankrupt. Then the bureaucrats do two things – request yet more tax contribution by US, and new sources of revenues a la casino revenues, lotteries, etc. It is a complete joke to believe that we can continue to dump more and more cash into this trough and the problem will be resolved while at the same time there is no reduction in our overhead costs. So go ahead and put the thumbs down on this…and put your head back into that sand while you’re at it!
I am wondering why the HCPS Board did not try to offer early retirement to employees in the system. A new teachers salary is alot less than people who have been in the system for 20+ years. My mom was a teacher in Va. and her school system offered an early out with full retirement, but in return they gave 15 days per year as substitutes for 5 years. It was a win – win situation for everyone involved.
About pay to play. Just want to make a comment on the issue. So what does pay to play mean, that ever kid will play at a given number of plays or minutes. Sure glad I don’t have a kid in school because I would not pay just to have my kid on a team. Its sad to see that family’s will have to pay to be in band and play sports in school. Maybe family’s should keep there kids from participating in any extra activity’s, this way the board will also save on the salaries that they pay to all the coaches. At least One teaching job could be saved.
Colleges charge activities fees and the students that are on their athletic teams are not guaranteed playing time. Even in parks and recreations programs there is no guarantee of equal playing time and their fees are just as high if not higher to participate. If you had a kid in school that wanted to play a sport would you really deny them that? I don’t think so. When you consider the amount of attention given your kid while participating in a high school sport that $50 works out to pennies per hour, nor does it come close to covering the total expense of paying for these activities. Is it fair that the parents of those kids that do not or cannot participate in sports should pay for those that do?
Most of the parents complaining on here probably paid or are paying thousands of dollars a year for their kid to play on a travel or elite or year-round team for whatever sport it is their kid(s) plays. However, asking for $50 is just too much!
Where are the complaints about a school losing their music teacher or art teacher? This county has its priorities mixed up. So many parents are SO (overly) concerned with sports as if it is going to guarantee their child a college scholarship or help them keep a job in life. We should be investing in things like music, art, technology–those things that help our kids be more creative. All the robotic jobs can be done by machine or outsourced. It is the creativity that can’t be and it is those skills that separate people in a competitive job market.
I am not saying sports are bad. In fact, I think they are a great way to encourage fitness, sportsmanship, and teamwork. I am just saying it is a sad, sad fact that so many parents are OUTRAGED by pay for play but could care less when their child’s class sizes go up or when their child loses access to classes like music or art.
Get real…your kid is, most likely, not going to be a professional athlete. Let it go and keep it is perspective!
Sports just summed up Harford county parents in a nutshell. But didn’t you know that everyone’s kid is a D1 prospect. They’ll pay $$$ for camps, private training, etc but not 50.00. Laughable….
And think about it…kids that play an instrument have been doing “pay to play” for years. The school does not provide them with an instrument, lesson books, reeds, mouthpieces, cost of repairs, etc. All these things are paid for by the parents, not the schools, even though band and orchestra are in-school, graded, academic classes. So I really don’t see what the big deal is to have parents pay a small fee for out-of-school, non-graded, non-curricular activities.
Coli you have made an allegation regarding the PMILL cash theft . Can you share the outcome of what happened as you must know what happened and are confident in you comment in order to name a specific person. Maybe you hinted at a certain person who can be surmised to be __ __ ? ..let’s see fired Tuesday from PMILL …wonder who that was. Say his name and I hope he goes at you with everything
Colin you have made an allegation regarding the PMILL cash theft . Can you share the outcome of what happened as you must know what happened and are confident in you comment in order to name a specific person. Maybe you hinted at a certain person who can be surmised to be __ __ ? ..let’s see fired Tuesday from PMILL …wonder who that was. Say his name and I hope he goes at you with everything
Colin is probably frustrated as many parents are that everyone being asked to pay more $ but yet when $10,000 goes missing from a school over a period of time it demonstrates a lack of oversight and no one held accountable especially the administrator who is in charge. If this is any indication of what we can expect when the schools have to start collecting “fees” we are in trouble. Also much of the “missing money” was from gate receipts from sporting events. FYI I still have checks I wrote to that school that were never cashed for field trips. I called the school back when it happened and no one ever returned my calls.
75 cents for a soda?
How about corporate sponsored HCPS sports teams, complete with advertising?
I’m thinking something like the “C. Milton Wright CR Wings Mustangs” or the “Patterson Mill Bel Air Wal-Mart Huskies”.
Surely this corporate sponsorship on jerseys, ballpark fences, and merchandise will cover the bulk of expenses discussed here.
It works well for European sports leagues.
Pay to Play is going to irritate people. Wait till the Bus Stop changes come to fruition. When students have to walk a lot further to the bus stop, the Dagger’s comments will be many!
Students have to walk a few more blocks to their bus stops? Oh my god, so exhausting!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lamer.
It’s not so much the walk, but in some neighborhoods there are no sidewalks.
It’s not like many kids use sidewalks nowadays anyway, they just walk out in the middle of the street.
I wouldn’t know, because we’ve never had them in my neighborhood & my child is not going to walk in the street to get the school bus.
These cuts also have closed the plumbing program at Harford Technical.
What goes away does not come back. What’s next?
does anyone know of any harford tech positions getting cut? my childs math class was almost 40 last year
My friend said they were told it was a guidance counselor, which makes 2 guidance counselors for 1100 students and they eliminated the plumbing program completely so the students in that program have to pick a new program now. Supposedly it was one of the lower enrolled programs but that teacher was one of the ones that was completely let go.
so sad. 2 guidance counselors now? wow! do you know of any classroom teachers that got cut?
I can confirm that is was the plumbing teacher and one counselor.
Interim Supt. said last night @ round table mtg that the number of teachers cut is now down to the low 40’s and the cuts in jobs @ headquarters put 400K towards retaining teachers. This was Monday night at 8pm, none of the internet local papers have covered it.
WUT
The plumbing teacher and the newest Guidance counselor got cut. Berg and Mrs. C. are still there in the guidance department
hopefully not many (hopefully none) of the harford tech teachers lost positions. thank you for the information. is there any way the plumbing tech area could come back with more funding?
Is there a finalized list anywhere that shows what high school academic classes will be $25 next year? Two of my children will be in high school and it is my understanding that I will owe $25 for each of them to participate in their journalism and drama classes. Does anyone know when I will be expected to pay the $100 for them to take these classes?
You will only have to pay the $25 activity fee if there is a stipend paid to the teacher for attending the after school activities. Not all activities will be affected but your school would be able to tell you if the classes you mentioned (journalism and drama) incur a stipend. I haven’t heard when we pay the activity fees but I imagine it will be on or about the beginning of the activity. Some activities are not year round so if it doesn’t begin until March, for example, I wouldn’t expect to pay it before then in the event we had to back out for some reason. If the activity starts for your student when school starts, I would anticipate having to pay it by the first day of school.
Unfortunately, at the is point, the school does not know what classes will be paying the fees. After I spoke with them this morning I called HCPS and was told the BOE had not yet made a final decision. So basically at this point no one seems to know which classes will be paying or when the money is due. Makes it a bit difficult to budget this latest unexpected expense.
So the policy is if the teacher gets a stipend then you pay the activity fee? Senior class advisor and prom coordinator get stipends. Does that mean my child would have to pay a $25 fee to be a designated as a “senior” and an additional $25 on top of prom tickets when it isn’t even held at the school? If we don’t pay will they not let them walk across the stage at graduation? Was anyone actually thinking when they made this policy?
It’s time for Harford County to take a hard look at their school system…not only doesn’t it financially support their teachers, it’s now looking to put their hands in the wallets of parents!
You do realize you have had the hands of Harford County in your wallet since the day you started living in Harford County? Those hands are called taxes. Since the county government has not felt the need to raise taxes to increase funding for education, the school board has had to find a way to increase their own revenue. Hence the activity fee which takes money from the parents who are receiving the extracurricular service(s). And yes, graduation and prom are extracurricular, and I hope students have to pay an activity fee to participate in them (although I doubt that will happen for either). This is what happens when elected representatives don’t want to adequately fund the services they were elected to provide…the services are cut or fees are added to fund them.
Considering the possible repercussions of a policy is not one of HCPS’s policies.
I also heard that patterson mill’s business teacher/athletic director was cut. any confirmation
Yes, PMHS’s main business teacher and the business teacher/AD were both cut. I do not know the status of the business courses for next year or who will teach them.
The main business teacher/AD has been “recalled.” That is the term used when they give the person back their position because of unexpected retirements, moves, etc. Some teachers are hearing that their positions are back open.
Great news.
The position does not open back up just simply a position they are qualified to fill does. A school may cut a position and that teacher goes because of seniority but when they get recalled they go into the new open position.
This question is to anyone that wroks for the system. I’ve always wondered when teachers leave the school to go to another harford county school is that their move or is it constructed by the board of ed? Its a question ive had for a very long time
It could be either. Teachers sometimes request voluntary transfers. Sometimes, they are transferred involuntarily or administratively.
Probably better to weed out the poor kids cause they cause the most trouble on the sports fields