The Board of Education of Harford County and the Harford County Education Association (HCEA), which represents the approximately 3,000 public school teachers in the county, jointly announce that a tentative contract settlement has been reached between the two organizations. This agreement maintains health benefits at its current level and does not include a cost of living adjustment or step increase for teachers.
After four months of negotiations, a tentative agreement was reached when representatives of the school system and HCEA signed the document on June 29, 2009.
Specifics of the tentative agreement will be shared with members of the Board of Education of Harford County and with the teacher members of HCEA. The agreement becomes official after ratification by both the HCEA and the Board and will become effective July 1, 2009.
“My fellow Board members and I are glad that we were able to reach an agreement with the Harford County Education Association,” said Patrick L. Hess, board president. “In light of tough economic times, we have reached an agreement which is best for all involved.”
“This year the negotiation process was extremely difficult due to the economic situation our county, state and nation are currently experiencing,” said Randy Cerveny, President of HCEA. “In fact, this year’s negotiations became more about maintaining the integrity of the negotiated agreement, than making significant strides. We protected teacher income and benefit levels. HCEA will continue to strive to gain the respect for what teachers do as well as the time necessary to do it.”
“I am pleased that we were able to achieve this tentative agreement with HCEA,” said Patricia L. Skebeck, Interim Superintendent of Schools. “To reach a settlement means that we can now move forward and focus on what matters most to both parties – student achievement.”
I am very surprised and pleased by this news!
Hurray for reasonable pay!
I am appalled by this! In a time when 34 people in this county lost their jobs, the teachers want more than anyone else! Sure the Board of Ed’s budget was cut, but how many teachers were fired?? NONE! No one in this county got COLAs or raises and I though everyone else had their health benefit deductions raised but not the teachers! Even the County Exec and Sheriff who get automatic raises each year are putting their money back into their budgets for other things in the community. I understand that not all teachers are demanding more but why would you have these people represent you??
Heck… even the Deputy Sheriff’s Union remained quiet this year and they got squat!!
Plus their health benefit costs remain the same while other county employees pay a 10% increase in their share, and an increase in co-pays for prescriptions and office visits. In the meantime, a friend of a friend who is a teacher just had a one day seminar at a hotel near BWI, got a fabulous lunch, lots of freebee handotst PLUS $150 cash for attending. Apparently there has been no cutting back on behalf of the Bd. of Ed. Greedy bastards they are. And as untouchable as HCC, the Library and the almighty Sheriff’s Department.
Unions have taken the major auto makers down. Unfortunately, the public school system cannot declare bankruptcy in order to get the union to be reasonable.
That’s right, Blue. Public school teachers…those “greedy bastards.” We shouldn’t be happy until we rid ourselves of this evil scourge upon our society. (please note my sarcasm)
Not sure what a lunch at an upscale hotel and $150 cash has to do with teaching our kids. No sarcasm here. My point is that the entities I listed above are absolutely oblivious to the fact that there is an economic crisis and that people are losing their jobs because they think they are untouchable and they’re correct.
Juls,
The union did not take the auto makers down management did it to them self .Management created cars people did not want, they did not change quickly enough in designs to keep up with the times. The union members only assembled autos what management wanted. As afar as labor agreements, management knew what they were doing and what they negotiated in the agreement. BTW I am not a member of the UAW.
Blue,
I guess the question you need to ask is how many teachers go into their OWN pocket to buy supplies,lunches etc for kids who don’t have the resources to do so themselves.
Tony,
You bring up a good point with regard to the failure of General Motors. I agree that management did play a part on a number of fronts, including but not limited to lack of long term vision and auto design. However, you have to agree that the power accumulated by unions played a major part in the demise of American Manufacturing. Unions simply held manufacturers hostage through work stoppages and outragious work rules. Please read Rivethead: Tales from the Assembly Line, for a factual view of Detroits auto demise. I know first hand of union mechanics working at steel mills that had to sit idle and often slept on the job because they were not only allowed to fix but certain parts.
Unions played a needed role in early American Industry to address dangerous work conditions, child labor, and low wages. However, there is no need for them now especially in the Government Sector. They have simply become a voting block of the Democratic Party.
My wife and I are both teachers, and last year we spent well over $800 out of our own pocket on school expenses. We teach in schools that provide much of what we need; it is not as if we HAVE to do this–it is to benefit the kids we work with. Does the sherrif or police officers (whose jobs are difficult, and I do not want to take away one thing from what they go through) have to put out such money? None of us were looking for some huge 7% raise. What we are looking for is respect from ignorant people like some of you who assume because you went to school once that you are qualified to act like you know it all. I have been to a hospital before, but I am certainly not going to tell my doctor how to perform the surgery, am I?
As far as the training, Harf Co teachers are paid for 10 months out of the year. Trainings in the summer are outside of that, and therefore are paid events, $150 divided by the 7 hours for the workshop comes out to a little over $20 an hour which is probably less than a lot of teachers make per hour. So, actually, the teacher was attending the training for LESS than the actual salary–not to mention the fact that they were not being paid for mileage like in many companies. So, BLUE, would you attend a training for your job without being paid for it…….probably not.
My wife and I are both teachers, and last year we spent well over $800 out of our own pocket on school expenses. We teach in schools that provide much of what we need; it is not as if we HAVE to do this–it is to benefit the kids we work with. Does the sherrif or police officers (whose jobs are difficult, and I do not want to take away one thing from what they go through) have to put out such money? None of us were looking for some huge 7% raise. What we are looking for is respect from ignorant people like some of you who assume because you went to school once that you are qualified to act like you know it all. I have been to a hospital before, but I am certainly not going to tell my doctor how to perform the surgery, am I?
As far as the training, Harf Co teachers are paid for 10 months out of the year. Trainings in the summer are outside of that, and therefore are paid events, $150 divided by the 7 hours for the workshop comes out to a little over $20 an hour which is probably less than a lot of teachers make per hour. So, actually, the teacher was attending the training for LESS than the actual salary–not to mention the fact that they were not being paid for mileage like in many companies. So, BLUE, would you attend a training for your job without being paid for it…….probably not.
Don’t teachers get paid extra to teach summer school and coach sports…
Tony,
They do get paid extra to teach summer school, but it’s at a lower rate than they make during the school year (I believe it’s 75%, but I’m not sure.) That’s also not something most teachers can do. There are only so many summer school teacher slots available and only certain classes are offered.
Most teachers (the ones who care anyway) frequently put in hundreds of unpaid hours of work each year. As an example, my wife spends 12-14 hours at her school most days of the year. She’s usually one of the first in the building and one of the last to leave. My understanding is that her pay is based on a 7.5 hour work day. She also ends up going in on the weekends sometimes to do work and over the summer she’s always there for more days than are required. That’s in addition to time she spends at home preparing lesson plans and grading papers (though most of that she takes care of at school.) Occasionally those long days include an extra duty that she gets paid for (at an hourly rate significantly below what her normal rate is), but most of the time they don’t.
Correction to my above post….that’s 12-14 hours days most days of the school year (during the week.) Just to avoid any confusion in my meaning.
The comments about the “extra hours” and “out-of-pocket” expenses sound great but once again has nothing to do with the lack of a pay raise this year. In the real world where profit and loss are actually a fact of life, we work extra hours because that is what it takes to get the job done. We toss in extras from out of pocket because that is what it takes to get the job done. One could easily argue the facts of whether our schools are really getting the job done, but that’s a subject in and of itself. If the cost of living (COL) is flat or actually went down according to the statistics makers, why do you think you need a cost of living allowance (COLA) adjustment? Stop and look around you. The people who make up the all other category, that is the folks who provide actual goods and services, aren’t getting any increases. A lot of them are in fear of not having any income if the economy doesn’t turn around. The teachers are supposed to provide a valuable service and deserve to be compensated for it, but so do the guys and gals who drive trucks, move trash, provide for public safety, etc. etc. This class warfare sucks! The teachers are not better or worse than any of the others but seem to live in some insulated world and defy any logic.
Tony depending on the sport a typical stipend is 2,500. My wife coaches a sport in the winter for that. She spend about 15 extra hours a week easy on this task and does it from Nov.15 to about Feb 28 or 3.5 months it is not meant to even come close to a job it is a token of thanks compared to the real reward.
She teaches in a route 40 school and easily spent 1,700 of her own money on classroom suplies and other things. She gets to deduct a small part of that the rest is still taxed. That 1,700 equals over one of her 22 checks after taxes.
Dave I do not think according to my wife and friends any of them really expected a COLA, The step would be nice they understand but the hike in their benifits and retirement cost was the killer. Put on top of that principals in secondary schools are being asked to get less subs and use teachers to plug in on the limited planning time they get. It really boils down to Respect and Time. When my wife gets grief because the parent who makes no effort to be availible from 6 AM – 4 PM and takes work home, even though she is only required to be there from 7:45 AM to 3:05 PM, is not able to call them at 6 PM. That is the respect they speak of. When she spent 5,000 (not including books) on required extra training. That is the issue of respect. Then add to it she is doing the best she can with what she is given they miss AYP in one category and show improvement in all groups and she is told she is a failure by people who never stepped in a classroom since HS. That is the respect.
Thanks for the support!
Dave–You can’t be serious in telling me that lawyers are expected to pay for things out of their own pockets? Does the doctor pay for the machine he uses to test me because the hospital just doesn’t have the money for it? You have got to be kidding! Secondly, it is not class warfare. I agree that the people who drive trucks, collect trash, etc. deserve a lot more respect than they get. However, is it 100% fair to throw teachers into that group? Within their first 10 years teaching in the state of Maryland, teachers are REQUIRED to have earned a master’s degree. I think some parents and community members forget that and treat teachers like they are hired help. As a well-trained professional, yes, I expect to be compensated as such. I am not asking or expecting a 6 figure salary, but I have as much education as an engineer, etc. and my compensation certainly does not even come close.
I consider myself lucky to have a teaching position in HCPS – and am content with not getting a cost-of-living or step increase due to the current economy. All I have to do is watch the news to hear about the unemployment rate. Most teachers feel blessed with their health benefits and the overall status of their salaries.
HOWEVER, let me say I am not pleased with the fact that HCPS found it warranted to give a cost-of-living increase to the new superintendent’s salary. Why only to Dr. Tombeck?
Nor does it sit well with me that HCPS bought him a new vehicle and is paying for gas, repairs, and routine maintenance because he lives in Timonium, Baltimore County and has to travel to Harford County each day.
I live in another county. Where is my car, my gas reimbursement? By making this allowance for the superintendent and only for the superintendent, the message I am getting is “he is important – you are not!”
KSM – the message you should be getting is “you are important – he is more important,” which, like it or not, is true.
I think any supt. would get a vehicle, it isn’t related to where he lives. This is a big county and he could be driving all over for different things. Face it, there are places Dr. Tomback could live IN the county that would be farther away from some schools than Timonium. Supt.s are running a business and negotiating a sweet deal is part of it. And sorry to say, the supt. job is at a much higher level than teaching.
food for thought….isn’t it a part of the Harford County BOE policy to have the superintendent reside in Harford County? If this is true, then what would be the need for the car benefits? Perhaps this is a rule that is only enforced when the Harford County BOE needs an excuse to reject a candidate.
I have to take exception with the concept that the Supt position is ” at a much higher level than teaching.” Dedicated quality teachers are the professionals closest to the school system’s reason for being. Supts come and go but it is the teachers who persist and who are directly responsible for student success. The fact of the matter is- if we do not provide some incentive for master teachers to stay or for the best and brightest to go into the field, car for the supt or no car for the supt- we will get what we pay for- at the classroom level. I await the day when a supt decides to take money out of his or her personal pocket- maybe by refusing a perc- to fund classroom needs,,,
This is a disgrace! That union is spineless. How do they get nothing after four months and act like it is a victory. Then, have the nerve to keep taking money from teachers for their hard work. Teachers should have at least gotten their step increase. I can see how there is no money for new cost of living raises, but if they don’t get a step this year, it does not get made up the following year. This means that teachers are basically losing a year of paid service. There is no reason Harford County should not have given a step because you have people who retired this year that were being paid at the top and new teachers who are hired will be making at least 20k less than the retirees were. They are also hiring fewer teachers because of positions that have been cut. The state requires that each county receive no less funding than the previous year, so they should have had the step increases budgeted in already. This is a gross mismanagement of funds! How do you tell teachers of one of the top ranked counties that they have millions for building new schools and plasma screen televisions for those new buildings, but they cannot give 60-70% of their teachers an average step increase of fifteen hundred dollars? There are only 15 steps, so teachers above that would not get a pay increase. We will be lucky if teachers don’t start leaving our county in droves. I sure hope a new television or pool can teach my children. I was glad to see that new superintendent for Harford County Public Schools Dr. Robert Tomback took the same attitude toward his own salary. He will only be making $190,000 this year with these benefits:
– An annual bonus of up to 10% of the superintendent’s salary dependent upon the outcome of a performance evaluation
– Annual cost of living adjustments (COLAs) and longevity pay, at the same rate and on the same schedule applicable to other supervisory/administrative employees within HCPS.
– Health, dental, life and disability insurance, provided at no cost to the superintendent.
– Annual payments for unused vacation, personal and sick leave.
– One-half of the cost of the employee contributions and all of the employer contributions to the Maryland State Retirement System each year and $10,000 in contributions to a qualified tax-deferred annuity in year one, increasing by $1000 each year thereafter.
– An all wheel drive vehicle, including the cost of gas, insurance, maintenance and repairs.
– A home office, including personal computer/laptop, personal digital assistant (PDA)/ cell phone, fax machine and printer.
If he has to deal with idiots like you, he deserves it. With all the people losing their jobs, the economy tanking, and tax revenue of by double digits, you are crying about not get a raise. A raise for no other reason than you exist. Not because your job performance was better than the previous year, but simply because you have the job.
If you don’t like your union, vote to decertify. Then we can treat each teacher individually and pay them as they deserve and fire the ones who are just there for the automatic rasies, top benenfits, and large amount of time off.
If you don’y like it, quit your 190 day a year job and come on over to the real world. You’ll be in for a rude awakening.
Ted the fact that you would make a statement like that shows you are the one is not living in the real world. I will not stoop to your level and call someone an idiot because they are making a valid point, backed with facts, not that you did that. If you believe that being a teacher is such an easy do nothing job where you sit and wait for your raise and don’t earn it, then please come and try it out. It is not as if you would need to be qualified or required to have more education that a lawyer just to hang out and really doing nothing but baby sit kids right. I am sure you would enjoy getting paid 10 months out of the year in the teacher fantasy land.
Thomas Davies –
It’s a shared sacrifice and we need you to suffer along with us.
You have to admit you have a nice work schedule, holidays off, unparalleled vacation/PTO, very generous health coverage/retirement, predictable work, job security (hard to get fired) and very comfortable compensation.
And other than taxes going up most other things have gone down in this deflationary economy. Your net pay should be going farther than even just a year ago.
Joe
Joe you forgot energy costs have gone up as well!
Cdev –
I did not forget.
While electricity may be up a little gas and diesel prices are down double digits versus last year and overall we have a deflationary economy at this time.
Even Social Security beneficiaries will not receive any cost of living adjustments in fiscal 2010 or 2011 because of deflation.
Joe
Thomas Davies wrote: “I am sure you would enjoy getting paid 10 months out of the year in the teacher fantasy land.”
Well, if I worked ten months out of the year, I would expect to be paid for ten months.
ted r.’s point about “we can treat each teacher individually and pay them as they deserve and fire the ones who are just there for the automatic raises, top benenfits, and large amount of time off.” makes perfect sense.
Some teachers do work hard, and some do not. In the real world, the people who work hard get raises and the ones who don’t get fired. In teacherville, the ones who work hard and the ones who do not both get the same thing, and we all know historically how well that works. It’s the best way to kill the incentive to excel.
There is not enough money for raises this year for teachers, but the health benefits will remain the same. Elsewhere, workers are being laid off by the thousands and benefits are being reduced. It sounds like the teachers are the lucky ones. Even the ones who should not be teaching.
If the teachers who work hard, care about their students and are committed to their profession think they deserve a raise, I agree. However, until they have the guts to speak up, band together and change the system that they operate in, they will continue to be held back by the underperformers and the collective mentality. If they don’t, then they are getting what they deserve.
Joe, you wrote that my salary should be buying more because the cost of things have gone down. However, the cost of my student loans combined with my wife’s, who is also a teacher, do not go down. The payments on the combined hundred grand that we owe for our required education only increases every year for the twenty five years we have to pay on them.
In fact, even though both of us have earned our master’s degrees and our continuing to further our education (which is also required of teachers) we can’t even afford to buy a house in Harford County, which is where we both teach.
Tom –
Both of your student loans should be at a fix rate and if you graduated within the last few years you should be enjoying some of the lowest interest rates in history. Why would your payments increase?
If you have a good credit rating you should be able to take advantage of first time home buyer federal tax credit and the great real estate deals all over the county in order to buy a home. You both could also take on a part-time jobs to supplement your income.
Joe
Joe,
How many other professionals do you know who have to take on a second job? My wife and I both work over the summer months in order to supplement our income. As for working a second job during the school year, I am sure it would very easy to find the time between working a full time job, taking classes, and caring for our family. Obviously, I am wasting my time trying to defend the teachers’ point of view with you. You are one of the people who makes being a teacher all the harder because you feel as if we are insignificant. It is people with this attitude that make teachers feel unimportant and undervalued.
Tom –
I haven’t said or intimated that teachers are “insignificant” and I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth, thank you very much. In fact my mother is a retired teacher. I have a clue about the life of a teacher being raised by one.
If you feel undervalued and unimportant you only have to look inward to resolve that issue.
Moreover your poor personal finances that precludes your ability to buy home says more about you than it does about teacher pay.
Joe
Joe Caruso –
I don’t know how to say this other than to just say it…
You’re a blithering idiot!
Not only do you talk down to people, but you have the audacity to make judgments about people’s finances without ever having walked a mile in their shoes…
You say your Mom was a teacher… At the same time, you suggest Tom and his wife go out and get part time jobs, so their kids will have no one at home on the evenings or on weekends while they are out working their second job… Would you have wished that on your Mom? Or on yourself as a child?
You’re a first class jerk… Live with that.
Incredulous –
My words speak for themselves. They are absent any malice and neither you or Tom have refuted what I have said. You can be as angry as you like, but wouldn’t it be a bit more convincing for you to respond to what I’ve actually written as opposed to your artificial outrage.
I leave you with these thoughts…great parents do not make sacrifices in spite of their families they do it for the betterment of their families…you should get off your high horse before you fall off or worse someone kicks you off.
Have a nice day,
Joe
Joe,
I see your mouth moving, but all I hear is blah, blah, blah.
CB –
Your welcome, I’m pleased to provide you with entertainment.
Joe
P.S. Open your mind and miraculously you will hear.
I’d be happy to exchange information with you in the hope that you would accept my standing invitation to be that “someone” to “kick me off”… Of course, that invitation would only be scoffed at and never accepted by you because your preference is to feign intellect while demeaning others and making overly generalized statements about those whose circumstances you couldn’t possibly know anything about.
Interesting that you enjoy making light of and poking fun at the plight of those who have chosen one of the most noble professions of all (which, by the way, I am not)… It lends additional credence to the initial impression that your posts give of yourself, which is one of both a feeble and a narrow mind.
If given the choice, the basics (food and a roof over their head) a given, I think most kids would choose having their parents around and involved in their lives rather than having a plethora of amenities… So, how is the type of “sacrifice” you suggest a “betterment” of the family dynamic when kids are left to raise themselves while their parents, who are trained professionals, are forced to take on additional work to supplement their income just to make ends meet, and are therefore away from home more than they’re there?
Once again, you’re an idiot… Hang a house key around your kid’s neck by a string and send him off to school, that way she can let herself in when she comes home while you’re off working your part time job to put food on the table… Brilliant solution, numbskull.
Continue to hide behind your keyboard and flex your cyber-muscles at those that dedicate their lives to having a positive impact on our future by perpetuating the education of our young people… You, sir, are a person of incredibly low character.
Incredulous –
How is it that making a sacrifice for your family through working hard to buy a home is not noble?
Joe
Incredulous,
First off, thank you for your comments. I second them wholeheartedly.
Secondly, you are an eloquent writer. You must have had some great teachers!
Tom –
Now I have to question your ability to evaluate writing skill versus content. Since, it seems as though you value opinions that agree with you as opposed to the quality of the writing.
Joe
Teachers cry poor all the time, the advanced degree, buying supplies, putting extra hours. This is the profession you chose, live with it or get out. I just spent the whole day not getting paid today, and I know that I’ll have more work to do Monday, because the county closed today.
I lost a day’s pay, but I still have a job. How about being grateful for what you got? I see clients everyday who have lost their jobs, had hours cut, and can’t afford their home.
The starting salary for a teacher is $41,000 + and both you and your spouse work for the school system. I think that makes it about $82000 per yr. If you don’t own a home is because you must have other issues, not because you can’t afford one.
furlougth employee –
Thank you for your poetic post!
Joe
Too funny!
Neither of you can spell the word f-u-r-l-o-u-g-h correctly… Maybe your teachers were so tired from working their part-time jobs to instruct you on the finer points of phonetics.
HAHAHA… Sheeeeeesh!
Incredulous –
I can spell “pathetic” along with furlough, heck I can even see the wavy red spell check line as I type.
I even have the integrity of posting under my name unlike you who uses a pseudonym.
Joe
Unfortunately for those that you would call out as malcontents rather than cheering for their cause, this isn’t a spelling bee… It’s real life.
Integrity? From a person who claims to post under his real name but also happens to share that name with a caracter from NYPD Blue? Come on…
Maybe you could be like that Life Lock guy and post your “real” Social Security number here, too…
Since we’re on the subject of airing personal information on a public blog, and since you’re so swelled with “intgrity”, perhaps you could pique our interest by posting your salary for all to see, just like our teachers’ salaries are made public knowledge so that people like you can sit behind your keyboard and, without benefit of knowing anyone’s specific situation, make broad judgments about how much is “enough” money for our teachers to be making.
I can spell p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c, too… However, in your case, it requires a little extra emphasis… PUH-thetic.
ouch!!! Joe. That one hit the spot. lol
Incredulous –
I called no one a “malcontent” and it’s David Caruso of NYPD fame who is unrelated to me.
My salary history is none of yours or anyone else’s business since I don’t accept taxpayer money nor am I currently an officer of a public company. And unlike you I have an open mind.
Joe
Joseph, when they run out of arguments, they resort to namecalling. Keep up the good work.
As he stated, Mr. Davies and his wife are both teachers with Master’s degrees. If, for the sake of argument, they have been teaching for eight years (which is the midpoint of the salary chart on the HCPS website), they each earn at least $53, 717.
How many people in Harford County would have a lot of sympathy for a family with an annual income of at least $107,434? I think Mr. Davies needs to sign up for a Living in a Contemporary World class (Hahahaha! I crack myself up!) and learn how to budget if he and his wife each “HAVE to take on a second job” (his words) to survive.
And Incredulous – here are some quotes from your posts in this thread:
“You’re a blithering idiot!”
“You’re a first class jerk… Live with that.”
“It lends additional credence to the initial impression that your posts give of yourself, which is one of both a feeble and a narrow mind.”
“Once again, you’re an idiot…”
“Brilliant solution, numbskull.”
“You, sir, are a person of incredibly low character.”
“I can spell p-a-t-h-e-t-i-c, too… However, in your case, it requires a little extra emphasis… PUH-thetic.”
This is the person to whom Thomas Davies, in post 39, said:
“Incredulous,
First off, thank you for your comments. I second them wholeheartedly.
Secondly, you are an eloquent writer. You must have had some great teachers!”
They seem to have redefined eloquence since my days in the Harford County Public School system.
Phil –
We are not supposed to argue with academic types with their supreme knowledge of all things. We have lost the debate before we start.
Joe
Incredulous,
What kind of fool makes fun of somebody’s name? Joe is a real person, and it is his real name. Why would you doubt that?. And he believes in something, which seems to be something you can’t claim.
When you get taxpayer money, you accept a government pay grade. This pay is public information. When you don’t work for the taxpayers, you can do whatever you want, as we still have a reasonable expectation of privacy.
This is irrelevant, anyway. I really don’t understand why everyone feels entitled to a job, great pay, great benefits, and home ownership. These are not rights.
Let us not forget benefits in figuring a teacher’s salary. Benefits many private workers do not have.
i don’t think teachers get paid enough for the work they do. A Master’s degree for an engineer or a law degree brings in more money than the $57000 mid-year pay grade you mention. Still other govt employees are paid less, and they are doing without 5 days pay. Teachers need to suck it up, just like everyone else.
I doubt that a teacher with a masters in education could attain a law degree or a BS in Engineering, let alone apply it succesfully.
Dr. Frank Thomas! Says he prefers teaching better then being a lawyer!
just thought we could all use a minute to cool off….and then think about this.
Since we are all talking about teachers Salaries here, whether you agree or not, have any of you thought about joining your local PTA this upcoming year during registration (if you have already great). And let me caveat that, I don’t mean just signing up so you can get the cool window static sticker, I mean actually going into the classroom sometime this upcoming year to volunteer your time or services.
If you have that’s great, and encourage all who can make a trip into the classroom or fundraising event this year to please do. Over the past couple of years I’ve had the opportunity to do so and you’d be surprised how much these teachers put into the classroom, and surprisingly enough…this is the real kicker (don’t tell anyone)….sometimes it is out of their own pocket. Sometimes they work “off the clock” for numerous events and sessions…no overtime. And yes who can forget those seminars they must attend, lets say once a year so that they can get up to speed on the latest trends, standards, and tools that work for teachers networked across the US. Coming from Texas, the teachers here actually have fewer tools of the trade and resources than I’ve seen before.
If you too are lacking freebies, then by all means just go take a gander at trade shows, home and garden shows, and oh wait (don’t tell anyone)…ask doctors about the freebies they get from drug reps…they get laptops, pdas, oh my. I doubt teachers are getting freebies like family vacations to Cabo San Lucas…at the most its organizers, rubrics, and so forth. I’m not saying no other organizations in HC deserve less, but to deflect pay grievances on teachers upon the basis of some lavish trips to illustrious Hampton’s of Maryland known as BWI is a little excessive.
It seems like the economy has everyone on edge and this edginess has infiltrated this forum. Teachers are no different in the sense that they would like a pay raise. Heck, we all do. Unfortunately, the economic conditions do not allow for such a move my the school board. Teachers must deal with that reality.
With that said, anyone who thinks that teaching is easy is obviously not a teacher. Knowing many teachers, I can say that most work more than 190 days (remember, they are not paid for the entire calendar year!) and most work more than 8 hours per work day. Many are in the schools this very minute, working…FOR NOTHING! They are getting lessons together, making room changes, and getting themselves ready for the first day of school…pro bono. Most teachers work well past dismissal. Many stay 2-3 hours after students leave the building, take work home and dedicate 1-2 more hours in the evening to their profession. Many teachers sponsor clubs without compensation. GOOD teachers work long hours and are dedicated professionals. To make their jobs sound easy is ludicrous. Those who think it is easy should spend a week as a teacher. It is much easier though, to say they have an easy job than to try and prove it.
Are there those that work to the clock and leave right after the kids? SURE! They are the bad ones, they should be weeded out, BUT they are protected by a union (association actually) that protects mediocrity. It is this union that allows many to see the teaching profession in a negative light by protecting those who should not be allowed to work with children. By protecting those who should be fired, they force children to learn from those who have no business teaching. It would be like having a surgeon operate on you who is bad at surgery! I agree that HCPS needs an enema. The teachers who are going through the motions and who are not dedicated to the profession need to be replaced immediately. It is this type of teacher that makes it look easy…and that is because they are not really doing their jobs. It is a shame that we don’t have a pay system that can reward those who actually dedicate themselves to the job, while at the same time keeping those whose mediocrity is protected by the union at the bottom of the pay scale.
The bottom line is that both sides have good points. Teachers are just as important as doctors and engineers (without them, you have no doctors or engineers!) and in a perfect world would be compensated as such. But the world is not perfect…we cannot afford to give you raises…ACCEPT IT!
But, by the same token, those who bash do so out of ignorance. The job is not easy! If done correctly, it is hard and time consuming…physically draining and demanding. But I would think that, if done correctly, it is rewarding as well.
People need to stick to realities and refrain from engaging in name-calling and personal smear tactics. Let’s stick to realities and engage in civil debate!
teachers need to realize that the county sends them over 50% of taxes to pay for schools and the county can’t afford to keep increasing budgets while enrollment is decreasing.
no one disputes that teachers are needed and a good education is priceless, but every service has a price, be thanfull that they have jobs and security.
Realist… Well said… Just like Switzerland… Right down the middle, not taking either side… 700-word blog entry that basically said everybody’s right… Classic non-confrontational entry, but purely a waste of your time typing it, and everyone else’s reading it…
rocco2009… What the hell does enrollment have to do with budgets and teacher’s salaries??? This isn’t a parochial school, this is HCPS… If the classrooms were half empty, they would still need to be staffed with qualified teachers… Oh, I get it… Overload the classrooms and increase the student:teacher ratio, thereby overworking the teachers even further, and maybe then we can offer them a raise… Your logic mystifies me…
Remember what happened in the not too distant past when we devalued those in the nursing profession… No one wants to dedicate their life to one of the “noble” professions if you have to live like a pauper to do it… As a result, there was a shortage of nurses and physician’s assistants over several years, which caused the quality of care in many hospitals and medical centers to suffer… I guess those that get indignant and try to determine for others how much money is “enough” for them because they happen to work in the public sector would like to see the pool of eachers shrink in the coming years so that the quality of our childrens’ educations suffer just as patient care did back then, huh?
Get real, folks… How many people do you know that have one or more Masters Degrees hanging on their wall that are working 50+ hours a week for around $60K annually?
What a joke…
Incredulous –
We ought to have opportunities for the best teachers to compete for the most rewarding jobs. I recommend we embrace vouchers for school choice to compete with government run schools.
Teachers need a free market too.
Joe
Joe,
I couldn’t agree more… As a parent of a student starting high school this fall, and one who can’t afford the $15-20K per year tuition at a private school, I would welcome the opportunity to make use of the portion of tax dollars that I spend on funding public schools in Harford County to choose the best forum for my daughter’s education.
And, you are correct, this change in how funds are allocated would create strong competition for the best teachers… Driving compensation up for those that are most deserving of it, and driving out those that are disinterested and / or not producing results.
However, having said that, I’m not overly optimistic that we’ll be seeing vouchers any time soon…
Incredulous I know alot of people who fit that description but then I know alot of teachers:)
A good teacher is worth their weight in gold. All will take less because they love the job and the kids. That is why most work to the rule efforts fail because in the end most of them care to much about the kids to hurt them because they end up being the loser.
I asked my wife why HCEA held out. She said they got an e-mail from HCEA about that. Essentially they thought the stimulus money would allow a reallocation of funds to allow them to get a step increase. In the end that did not happen. She will essentially take a pay cut next year since she will make the same base salary and her health insurance cost goes up. She loves the kids and I got a job in the private special needs sector so I make a lot more money with worse benefits. I think we should go to a system where teachers get to skim .1% of the salary of every kid they taught. The more successful their kids the more they make. I guess with 2 NBA players, 42 doctors, 27 lawyers, 1 US Congressman, 1 Federal Judge, 8 Software engineers amongst many students I would be set for life. That’s just the ones I know about. Or maybe the free market idea is good we could let every teacher negotiate their own salary. Science, Math and Special Educators could demand a very big premium!
Incredulous –
It’s one voter at a time, one official at a time, one issue at a time, one election at a time, one bill at time and before you know it a new reality has begun.
The Casper Milquetoasts of the nation be damned! We are a conservative nation that has awakened.
Joe
incredelous
less kids, less teachers needed. simple math. maybe your small teacher brain can’t comprehend that. Maybe you are teaching that “new math”?
realist
you were on point. get rid of that union that protects bad teachers and reward the good ones. Teachers do a service for the community just as a janitor, bus driver, security guard do. yes, i know they have college degrees, and so many that have lost their jobs.
Incredulous – didn’t say everyone was right. Teachers are wrong to demand raises in the current economic market. Teacher-bashers are wrong to think that they work very few hours and make too much.
I guess it just blows your mind that no one has to be 100% right or 100% wrong.
Your nursing analogy is on-point, as does your final paragraph about what they make in comparison to their qualifications. Regardless of the truth, there is no money for the raises that they deserve. And yes, they deserve them. I have a feeling that we will be having this same discussion next year because the economy is not improving at a noticeable pace.
One danger to conitnueing no step increases is we may lose our best teachers. Every other county gave step increases. Two years of no step will cause some to look in other counties particularly high demand subject areas like Special Ed, Science and Math!
Unions have ruined public education. There are many good teachers but there are more teachers who should not even be sweeping hallways, let alone, teaching a class. Vouchers are the way to go. Create the competition in the education system. If each potential stedent was issued a voucher, let’s say worth $10,000 and they had a choice at which school they could spend the voucher, the schools would now compete for the student and thier voucher. The school would offer better services, better teachers, better extracurricular activities, etc. With no competition, they can cantinue to offer the same inferior service with no negative repercussions. The union would protect the teacher and the teachers would expect the same raises without producing.
I am glad that I am not restricted to shop, eat out and work in the “district” in which I live. Could you imagine? What incentive would the local restaurant have to make a better handburger? None! Well public schools operate under the same premise.
Cdev said: “I think we should go to a system where teachers get to skim .1% of the salary of every kid they taught. The more successful their kids the more they make. I guess with 2 NBA players, 42 doctors, 27 lawyers, 1 US Congressman, 1 Federal Judge, 8 Software engineers amongst many students I would be set for life.”
Of course, you would also have to be responsible for the failures you taught. How would you like to pay .1% of every fine imposed for embezzlement, every dollar for restitution to crime victims – how about all of the fines imposed by judges in every courtroom in America every day?
Still sound like a good idea? Or are the teachers only responsible for good results and the success of others, and the students get all the credit and blame for failing in life?
Phil you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
Not to mention a problem with the voucher system you suggest is that schools may not put the money into the quality education piece but go overboard with extra curriculars in order to attract students while giving them a poor education.
Cdev,
They get a poor education today. Kids can’t read or write when they graduate. Have no general knowledge, Baltimore City lowers the failing grade to 60% and then graduates more students and they claim a victory. There is a 30% drop out rate. Competition through vouchers is absolutely the answer. The issue od schools putting money into extra curriculars can be regulated and easily managed.
So let me get this straight. “Good” teachers are the ones who are willing to work 9-12 hour days (when their contract says 7.5) and also come in during the summer and days in which they aren’t being paid. “Bad” teachers are the ones who follow the contract and arrive 30 minutes before the students and leave 25 minutes after the school day ends. This contract that they are following is one that was agreed upon by the County Council, Board of Ed and their union. These are the bad apples that need to be weeded out, right? I am curious how many people are eager to take time away from their families to work for free?
OR, here is a better question: how many furloughed employees showed up and worked on days they weren’t beling paid?
Finally, I can agree that it is unreasonable for teachers to expect a COLA increase during a troubled economy. That said, does this mean when the economy is growing at a rate of 8%, 9% or 10% the teachers will reap those benfits? Because it didn’t happen in the last Harford County economical boom. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t ask the teachers to suck it up and pitch in when times are tough, and then make them beg and plead for a 3% COLA increase when times are going good.
Communicator they lowered it to match what the rest of the state was already doing! In most other counties including Harford passing was 60. Also do not blame it on Baltimore City they pretty much closed that gap this year! Further more you are exaggeratting. You make it sound as every HS graduate can not read or the vast majority of them can not. That is just not the case!
harford county graduates many excellent students that go on to be some of the leaders we have today as a nation. My son graduated from Bel Air High School 2 years ago. He earned a scholarship to a prestigious New York University and competes amongs some of the best graduates of private and preparatory schools of America and abroad.
while there are problems with the school system, I think most students do graduate with competent knowledge and skills.
I agree with rocco2009 and think it is a ridiculous generalization to say that “kids can’t read or write when they graduate.” Here’s a solution–pay the teachers even less to fix that problem!!! Great observation Eyewitness. Can’t have it both ways at all. Everyone wants the results, but doesn’t want to chip in to get them.
Jl –
If money equals better outcomes in education the highest cost per pupil would yield the best product. It does not.
Joe
If the dollars spent have any correlation to the quality of the education then we ought to pay teachers today what we did in 1950. The children still received a quality education back then.
Joe have you looked at the statistics on that? You probably mistakenly think Baltimore City is the Highest CPP. It isn’t. Montgomery county does. It is the second best results in the state. Worchester was the best it has one of the highest. Harford ranks near the bottom in CPP. We are lucky to rank mid state in test results. Maybe if we spent more we would get better.
Cdev – There is absolutely no correlation between spending per student and academic success. Ths has been proven time and time again in many school jurisdictions across the country. Not to mention in foreign countries where the spending per student is a fraction of what it is in the U.S. but the foreign students consistently out perform U.S. student son standardized testing.
Cdev – There is absolutely no correlation between spending per student and academic success. Ths has been proven time and time again in many school jurisdictions across the country. Not to mention in foreign countries where the spending per student is a fraction of what it is in the U.S. but the foreign students consistently out perform U.S. students on standardized testing.
Other countries also test at each level and students move on to other options that are not academic in nature if they don’t score high enough. We let students move through the system and give them adult assistants and they graduate from high school. Some of them probably look pretty good on paper. Then, if they want, they can enroll in a college that has open admissions. Think how much higher our scores would be if only qualifying students took the test.
Comparing to other countries is not always relevant.
Look money is not the total answer; but it is a large factor in the equation. You can not pay for lanoliam and expect marble floor results! You have to put money in it. On a state level we are putting very little in and getting semi decent results unlike Baltimore City and PG put in a lot and are not getting the same product. Although we could get into reasons why they would have to spend more based on the population they teach.
If we looked at comparable demographic systems (size and socio-economic) in this state and how much they spend and test results we are failing and they spend more and get better results. You can not compare HCPS to Baltimore City, PG, Chicago, Los Angles Unified. We are not in the same boat you should instead look at Worchester, Anne Arundel, York, Some of the up state New York multi-high school districts. We spend less then them and our results are not as good.
I am not saying all the money should go into teacher compensation, instead right into the classroom on resources to better help teacher’s do their job and keep the student’s interested in the subject matter! There are countless studies out there that show manipulatives make a large difference in learning outcomes. Those cost money and money is what we do not spend. We low bid contracts and make it more difficult to do something that should be easier when for a little bit more it would be easier, would leave teacher’s with more TIME and feel RESPECTED, and as a result would make an impact on the students (REGANOMICS OF EDUCATION)! So funding is indeed related to test scores; maybe not directly because like my floor example if you buy Marble and get a crappy installer you get a crappy Marble floor.
If you want the good installer you need to pay them a little more then the crappy guy. Look around us. We have a lower scale then Baltimore County and Baltimore City. If we want to attract good teachers and not, just local ones who are drawn to come back, we need to be competitive. We are at a disadvantage to the fact the PA retirement system is so great so that even a little less pay goes a long way in what it makes up. But when we are paying the same as these districts with the slightly lower quality MSRPP then we need to look at our scale and say what incentive is there for GREAT teachers to relocate to Harford County, MD. The young ones leaving the PA teacher mills want to go back to PA eventually, and do so after a few years when those jobs open up. My wife had a friend who came from there and interviewed for 5 years to get a job up there. Each interview she was one of 25 candidates for a single position. When she was a finalist she faced tough scrutiny but left HCPS after 10 years here to start over in the PA retirment system because they treat teachers well. Sadly she is not an exception but a rule!
With that going on right over the border and two places offering higher salaries not that far away what incentive do we offer for the BEST teachers to come and stay in HCPS. We are hoping to get good teachers fresh out of college from some candidates who are to dumb to do their homework and look around so they take their first offer or the cast offs from PA, Baltimore County and in some cases Baltimore City. Some times those teachers work out and some of them bloosom and become GREAT teachers but many of them sadly do not and leave the profession on their own or worst of all hang in there. The kids get hurt in the long run. We will always have the HCPS alumni crowd and some of them are great teachers but sadly some of them are not as well. Some of the great ones leave and go were the money is better. You talk about free market and not spending money on schools. Well there is some free market capatilism in HR for teachers for you. MD does not graduate enough teachers from it’s own colleges to fill the classroom vacancies. We are dependent on cast offs from states like PA, WV, NY.
So if you want the high quality marble floor. You need to pony up and pay for a good installer and good marble to get a GREAT looking floor!
the problem seems to be that the teachers union, teachers and the school establishment, keeps demanding more and more funds to provide the same service and results year after year. I have already said that most students graduate with knowldegeable minds and competent skills.
The school system is bloated and full of bureaucrats that don’t know that in the real world people can’t get raises during an economic downturn. the national economy is in shambles, local industry is suffering and there are not enough tax funds to just support the school system. Harford county spends almost half or 50% of its tax revenue in the school system!!!!.
Rocco you have not been engadged in teacher bashing but a few points.
1) There is no “union” only an association. It may seem like words but it is actually a big difference in Maryland.
2) The current climate is correct but when that climate was not the problem Harford did little to improve it’s circumstance or be competitive in pay. The State offered to match 5% increases for 3 years for all jurisdictions in MD about 7-8 years ago. Harford County did not seem to take full advantage of that.
3) When you keep the budget the same and cost of buisness goes up (as it has) you essentially cut the money in the classroom. You will get poor results.
4) Last year when asked HCPS gave back 5% of the budget. They did not have to!