From the office of Maryland Comptroller Peter Franchot:
Dear friend:
As many of you are aware, I am a staunch supporter of financial literacy education for young people in our state. As Comptroller, I have experienced the consequences of our nation’s economic crisis on families throughout our state, and am painfully aware of the lives that have been forever changed due to a combination of predatory financial behavior on Wall Street and uninformed financial decisions by Maryland consumers. To help safeguard our children from a similar fate, I believe that all Maryland public school students must complete a standalone course in personal finance in order to receive a high school diploma.
Four progressive counties have already recognized the importance of this information and mandated financial literacy education in all their high schools. Carroll, Talbot, Baltimore, Charles and Allegany counties are truly models for implementing this program at little or not cost to the school system. While I applaud their leadership on this crucial education reform and consumer protection initiative, I am afraid that failure to provide all Maryland high school students with this same body of knowledge will place them at undue risk in today’s complex financial world.
As the new academic year begins, so too does our campaign to require Maryland’s public school students to pass a standalone course in financial literacy in order to graduate from high school. Thanks to the hard work of a bipartisan coalition of teachers, students, business leaders, consumer advocates and public officials, we came closer than ever last year to getting a financial literacy bill passed by the Maryland General Assembly, and I am confident that we will complete the job in 2012.
I am also excited to announce a new initiative that will reflect the urgency of this effort and the strong support that it has earned among Maryland families. In late September, I will announce a petition drive to gather the signatures of 10,000 Marylanders in support of a statewide graduation requirement. It is my intent to have these signatures collected by January 11, 2012 — the first day of the 2012 Maryland General Assembly — and to personally deliver copies of the petition to legislative leaders from both parties.
It is a very ambitious goal, and if we are to succeed, I need your help. A PDF copy of the petition is attached. Please begin collecting signatures now — whether from education stakeholders and advocates within your communities, business and civic leaders who understand the consequences of failure, or working taxpayers who simply want to provide their children with the tools to succeed in the real world and avoid the past mistakes that so many of us have made.
I ask that you print off as many copies as you can fill – with your own named included — and to send the completed forms back to Ms. Christine Feldmann by e-mail at cfeldmann@comp.state.md.us or by fax at (410) 974-2045.
Additionally, the petition can be found on my website at http://www.marylandtaxes.com/comptroller/initiatives/literacy/. Please forward this link to family and friends to sign.
Should you wish not to receive further emails about this topic, you may also contact Ms. Feldmann. Otherwise, I thank you for your support for financial literacy for Maryland’s children.
Sincerely,
Peter Franchot
Kim Hampshire Holsapple says
I so agree with this!!! I will be doing my part to collect signatures. My daughter is a sophomore at Harford Tech where they offer this class for seniors BUT only if you have not gone past geometry. My daughter has been struggling with Alegbra II and would have to take Trig next year. She is the cosmetology program and a personal finance math/business math course would be ideal for her since she will be in a field where money will important to learn how to handle.
ALEX R says
Kim, No matter what you do in life it is important to be financially literate. Without exception.
ALEX R says
I think the whole current situation where someone can graduate with a high school diploma and NOT be financially literate is both a joke and a crying shame. What a sad commentary on our education industry in Harford County. What are these kids being taught in school today? It is probably not a bad thing that there are few jobs available if there are few financially literate people to fill them. I know, I know. How much financial literacy do you need to work on a garbage truck or at McDonald’s putting burgers onto buns? The other crying shame is that our education industry has filled these kids with such a high level of self esteem that they don’t even get how uneducated they are!
Colin says
Great Point Alex. The system is so geared to the expectation that each and every graduate attends college, that I can certainly see HCPS fighting this as a requirement. Of course it will be the standard overworked and underpaid argument.
KEESHA JACKSON says
And you don’t need to be financially literate to attend college? Believe me, they don’t teach it acros the board there. Except how to fill out your loan papers.
Barb Thomas says
Hi Alex,
The problem is that people who work at McDonald’s or in a garbage truck do need financial literacy, maybe the most, if they had been taught things about personal finance, it might help them the get ahead down the road or at least put aside a little money for an emergency or a vacation. It is important for everyone. Barb
ALEX R says
Barb,
You missed my point which I probably expressed poorly. I do totally agree with you. Let me try again.
Parents and teachers. Your attention please. If you teach your children/students true financial literacy they have an imporved chance of having a better life, at least from the standpoint of not having money issues. If you don’t, then they will continually, in all likelihood, be at a financial disadvantage having too much debt and too little ability to pay it. Poorly prepared to live in the present nevermind retirement.
Parent and teachers. Your attention one more time please. If you think it is the job of someone else and ignore it, or haggle about ‘there is no class time’ or ‘I’m already overworked’ or ‘it’s not my job’ or whatever, then you are the problem and your children/students will have every right to look back at you later and say part/most of the reason they are in financial trouble (very often leading to marital/family trouble) is YOU.
Meanwhile you are haggling over how many class periods were actually scheduled at some local school?
Listen to me. Many kids are on a track that leads to having a diploma but not an education, a lot of stuff that they can’t afford and most of their paycheck (if they can even get a job) going to pay interest on bills they should not have. And of all of that high self esteem crap has made them proud? Please either fix it or at least stay out of the way of people who want to fix it.
Cdev says
ALex as is evidenced on here often. Teachers get taken to task when they deviate from the curriculum and try to do these things like fill in gaps. For example drama therapy, Even our president gives a speach telling kids to do well in school and the school gets grief for attempting to show it. Given those issues why would you think a teacher would stick their neck out?
Frustrated Parent says
Can you explain how Drama Therapy filled a gap? There is nothing wrong with the idea of students presenting their own work from their personal persepctive but when it involves abortion and simulated suicide presented to an audience of 14 year olds, you have a problem. Also you spelled speach incorrectly. It is SPEECH. Only way MOST kids are going to learn about money and loans and credit it to experience and deal with it firsthand. If parents really want their kids to learn about money, give your kids a monthly allowance and make them pay for certain things and when the money is gone then it is gone. No more or take a loan out from the parents and when they get the next monthly installment they can repay.
I am having a difficult time believing that most people don’t grasp the concept that if they only make so much money they can only afford certain things. Our government (who Franchot is part of) are the ones who made it possible for people who couldn’t afford homes to buy them or encouraged people to spend money they didn’t have. They take out loans against the American people and then make some ridiculous recommendation that our kids should learn about Personal Finance in school. Give me a break…
ALEX R says
CDEV,
Why would a teacher stick their neck out?
Because they vociferously claim to be highly trained professionals. Are they professionals or not? Professionals are held to a higher standard of performance and accountability. Professionals hold themselves to a higher standard. Professionals who have volunteered for the task of educating children have volunteered for an extremely important, may I say ‘vital’ task that impacts a child for their lifetime, also their future family if they choose to have one and society at large. I hold each teaching professional and their management structure accountable for what happens in the educational community. Each of them, personally. If they are going to go along to get along then maybe they should be flipping burgers or something else that has a little less importance. No disrepect meant to burger flippers if that is what they want to do.
Cdev says
Simple. The assertion made above is that since parents do not teach personal finance the school should step up and “fill in the void” They should do this because it is right and in the best interest of helping kids. Well…..since some parents also do a poor job of teaching their kid about the gamit of issues that drama therapy covered one could apply the same logic and say the school should do it. You have just demonstrated by your indignation that you don’t agree with that idea. This was my point It is viewed as a parent job and teachers frequently gert bashed when they do that, even with the best and purist of intentions.
BTW If you wish to jump on someone about their spelling and grammar please fix your own!
“Only way MOST kids are going to learn about money and loans and credit it to experience and deal with it firsthand.”
Should read
The only way MOST kids are going to learn about money, loans and credit is to experience it and deal with it firsthand.
pizzle says
I appreciate the idea, but once again (IMO) we’re deferring to the schools what SHOULD be done by a parent. My parents taught me how to balance a checkbook and save for things I wanted to buy. But yet again, looks like we need “big brother” to come to the rescue for the shortcomings of parents. Personal responsibility/accountability needs to be taught first and foremost at home. School is a fine place to supplement that sort of learning, but there is no substitute for having a parent teach their kid how to take personal responsibility and accountability for themselves and their actions. I think that is what’s really missing in this whole debate. Teaching kids in school about financial literacy is only masking the real issue of parents not doing their damn jobs with raising their kids.
I find it funny that Mr. Franchot cited the “predatory financial behavior on Wall Street” as a reason for wanting to all of a sudden educate the kids on fiscal responsibility. Mr. Franchot, you wouldn’t be trying to piggy-back on the protests taking place in NYC now, would you?
After seeing HCPS roll out “Everyday Math”, I would much rather prefer to teach my kids how to be financially literate, thank you very much.
Billy Jack says
Lucky you, Pizzle, for having parents who taught and modeled wise financial behavior. That is not the case for everyone, however, and sadly so. Given the trouble young people can get into way too early thanks to credit card companies shilling to kids, among other things, this seems a wise recommendation.
Harford County Teacher says
I definately appreciate your comment about the Everyday Math, and agree with it. However as a Business teacher that Teaches finance in a Harford County High school, I feel that in my class every student IS getting what they need to be financially literate. I take pride in the fact that I teach finance, because when I was in high school, there was no course like that. I feel that although parents should show their kids how to write a check and balance a checkbook, in school I can be the teacher that opens their eyes to planning for retirement, budgeting, investing, and other things that many parents don’t have time to teach their kids. I would love to see every student take a personal financial literacy course that is designed to REALLY give them the practice and can help them make financial literacy part of the good habits they will need to be successful in this world.
Kim Hampshire Holsapple says
Thank you Harford County Teacher! Like I said before my daughter struggles with Math and I can’t help her because I was an accounting major. So I applaud your work!
Bill says
Well, given how many supposedly well educated and intelligent people thought buying houses using 5/1 ARMs and interest-only mortgages was a good idea I don’t think relying on parents to teach their kids about finances is a great idea.
Cdev says
Or how many people believed the bank when they agreed to lend them 360K when their actual price range should have been 200K
David A. Porter says
Just recently I went to my credit union to request a small loan for remodeling a bathroom. I already had a line of credit at about 10% interest and was paying about $150 per month to pay it down. I asked if I could do a number of different things to get the additional $2500 I needed with either the existing line of credit or a refinance of the line of credit with a new loan. The credit union response was confusing. In fact, they finally offered me a new line of credit and the opportunity to borrow an additional $1200 for 12 months at 12%; I didn’t want it nor did I need it. Thinking I had finally found a deal I went in to sign the application for the simple extra $2500. But when I arrived I was told my monthly payments for the increased loan would now be $243 per month. I asked how this was possible and I was told the interest rate went up to 12%. The whole thing bothered me and I told them I would not take their loan and that they were very disingenuous about dealing with me. I found someone to talk with and explained my frustration: Why did you sucker me in to a loan with a $2500 balance at a higher interest rate – and then tell me I could borrow an additional $1200? I said this is the kind of thing that got people in trouble in 2008. Just load them up with more borrowing regardless of whether or not they think it’s financially responsible to accept the higher amount and heap the monthly payments on them. eventually I was hooked up with someone that helped me consolidate the loans into a lower 5.6% loan that resulted in no net increase in my monthly payments – all for the sake of the extra $2500 I wanted to remodel my bathroom. It can be done, but the consumer has to be aware of the impact of interest rates on their monthly payments and not jump at the bright and shiny offer of even more money.
ALEX R says
Pizzle,
I share your views a lot on government so please take what I am about to say with an open mind.
I don’t, at this point, really care who fixes it but I am sick to death of the haggling over whose job it is while lives are ruined daily over financial stupidity. There probably is not a more important issue on the table today in the field of educating kids. I do agree that HCPS probably has a legion of educational ‘professionals’ assigned to every other topic you can think of and ignoring this one. It wouldn’t surprise me to know that they are financially illiterate themselves.
It’s reaaly sad that parents install webcams to be able to spy on what it going on in their own home while they are out for a few hours but send their kids to school and give no thought to checking on what is not being taught there.
But then if we had kids graduating high school and bound for college with true financial literacy the college student loan market would plummet because they would say “What? You kidding me? How much? Thanks but I can’t afford that. I will get my education another way. But I will get an education!”
Cdev says
Actually Fedral college loans are an exellent deal, subsidized or unsubsidized.
ALEX R says
Cdev,
Actually getting people to borrow money they can probably never pay back or getting people to take on debt that will strap them financially for years and years is NEVER a good idea or a good deal. Parents thought that these were ‘student’ loans. Not so, my friend. These are ‘parent’ loans. The parents are on the hook legally for the payback.
How about when the student gets to the age of majority the parent is legally no longer responsible for the loan and the responsibility automatically transfers to the student? Let’s see how the lending agency likes that.
Cdev says
My parent did not co sign for my loan.
Cdev says
I find it funny to see these comments from some people. This concept is part of the LICW curriculum that so many people detest as a waste of a class for their kid.
Mrs. Hollsapple the course you refer to is not neccessarrily what the name implies. Essentially the course you refer to is a shame of a math credit for a kid who can not pass Algebra II. It involves adding and subtracting money, PERIOD!
I learned personal finance early in life from my parents. My allowance in MS was the equivelent of 5 school lunches, which I got on sunday after certian chores where done. If I made my own lunch the money was mine if not I spent it!
Kim Hampshire Holsapple says
Cdev, I am aware of the LICW class but again my daughter was not offered that class because of her tech area, requiring her to be in her tech area 2 hours every day. Unfortunately,Cosmetology students are excluded from that class due to not having time to take it during their 4 years of high school. They have to get all the “other” math classes in.
Concerned Teacher says
Part of the problem, CDev, is that the LICW curriculum is a mishmash of topics thrown together that someone thought was important but isn’t taught in a regular class. Financial literacy is but one of those topics, and usually LICW is taught by a social studies teacher who isn’t necessarily trained in (or even comfortable) with mathematics.
As much as I wholeheartedly agree that this is an important topic that every student should learn, another issue is that the State of Maryland and Harford County both have added so many requirements to the curriculum that they have forced the schools to put eight classes on each student’s schedule. When I was in school we had six classes per day, each about one hour long, and I think I managed to get a pretty good education from that. Shortly after I graduated the school system added a seventh class which reduced class length to about 52 minutes per day. Now, we have 4 classes every other day, which equates to a class length of under 45 minutes per day. In the system’s reckless approach to “broaden” the educational choices for our high school students, we are now forcing them to learn the same amount of material that the previous generation learned (and in some cases more) in 75% of the time. For those of you in my generation, imagine if you had been required to learn the entire World History curriculum or Algebra II curriculum or Biology curriculum by the first week in April. Would you have been able to do it? Would your teachers have been able to help you learn? Current teachers have a choice to make: help the students learn the material at the expense of covering everything expected of them, or cover all the material at the expense of some students getting left behind. Conflicting priorities at the building level and the county level make this decision even harder for teachers, because no matter how good of a teacher I may be, there is never a class where everyone gets everything first time every time. It just isn’t realistic.
There currently exists a Consumer Math class in the HCPS curriculum, but it is a class geared towards seniors who need one more math class to graduate and are not skilled enough to be successful at higher math (Algebra II and beyond). This means that much of the school population never gets this (or is even offered the chance to take it). The Comptroller is correct in that this should be something everyone learns. The question is how to best implement it, and I am not sure that a new standalone class is the way to do it.
Cdev says
To be fair the trend to 8 classes became neccessary here because some schools like Joppatowne had 8 credits availible 4 the first and 4 the second semester and others like Bel Air had 6. When a kid transfered from Joppatowne to Bel Air it was possible they could go from being able to graduate that year to not because they had to drop two classes or vice versa a kid could have to add two classes half way through.
That said my point was that some people claim LICW is a complete waste of time along with its entire content and this demonstrates that some of it is stuff we want. Is it possible it would be better tuned to a different audience? yes. My wife taught a financial literacy enrichment to her 8th graders along with the stock market. The team of teachers did it when they had an enrichment period. Kids learned how to balance a check book, live on a budget, how much things cost that they usually have provided for them like how much a cell phone costs. They had to pick out a car and research insurance. Make a budget for the dream lifestyle and always find out that their job was not conducive to that. They learned what mutual funds, stocks and other financial tools where and practiced investing. The kids seemed to like this. The key to teaching financial literacy is to consider the audience and what matters to them. Don’t teach HS kids about 401K’s because they don’t care.
Frustrated Parent says
CDEV: If you are going to make declarative statements, get your facts right. Bel Air did not have a 7 period schedule when the county went to the 8 period schedule. North Harford and Joppatowne did. Havre de Grace had a 6 period schedule. The Board of Education asked HCPS to give them several different schedules to pick and choose from and they gave them 1. Go back and read the newspaper articles. Furthermore there was a report prepared by 2 Professors from Towson University that made several recommendations about LICW none of which were implemented by HCPS. This group that has formed should go back and read it. SAT scores at Havre de Grace decreased substantially. HCPS has been on academic decline for years and it started with this schedule and this class.
We want our kids to take “Financial Literacy” and the school system has yet to explain how you subtractt 100+ hours of instruciton time in English, Math, Social Studies and Science a year and expect the kids to miraculously learn what was taken out of the curriculum. College Board has statistics that indicate this type of schedule is linked to lower test scores in certain subject areas.
Cdev says
No Bel Air had a 6 period schedule!!! Joppatowne had an 8 in the sense you took 4 credits in the first semester and then 4 different credits in the second semester. They had 90 minute periods! If you are going to lecture me on declarative statements, READ for comprehension!
Bill says
Who the hell cares which school had which schedule x-number of years ago before they went to the current schedule? Does it matter?
Joe says
You’re both wrong. Bel Air had a 7 periods rotating through 5 classes each day before changing to the block scheduling.
The 7 period rotation was established by Bill Ekey while he was principal of the school in the mid 90s. before that, there were 7 periods each day with periods 6 and 7 switching each week so that the student atheletes would not always miss the same last period when leeaving early for games.
Cdev says
Was one of those seven lunch? If so a kid took 6 credits a year which was my point.
Concerned Teacher says
I’m the one who brought up schedules in the first place, and my comment was referring to 25 years ago when I was in school. At the first school I taught at in the late 90s, we had 7 periods per day. When I started at my current school, we had 8 classes over two days (each class was either 90 min every other day or 45 min every day). The point is that the current schedule that HCPS uses for its high schools involves about 45 hours less classroom time than its predecessors in the 6-period day schedule, yet requires the same (if not more) to be covered.
As to the LICW situation, there are some elements of LICW that are important. The issue in terms of financial literacy is that LICW is a 9th grade class, and most freshmen do not have the experience to make this relevant. If this were taught as a required class for seniors, then it would be much more effective.
Joe says
The 4th period of each rotation was an extended lunch period. The kids took seven classes a year not six.
ALEX R says
Oh, well. College Board will simply have to suck it up. I’m a little more interested in the ‘living a life of financial responsibility’ score. While College Board scores are important someone is going to have to explain to them that they simply aren’t the be all and end all.
ALEX R says
CDEV,
You wrote “The course you refer to is not necessarily what the name implies”?
Let’s stop for a minute and consider that. Is it a silly expectation to think that a whole public school system filled with people most having advanced degrees might just be able to find someone with enough intelligence to actually title a course accurately? What a sad, sad operation.
Cdev says
It is called consumer math. Consumers need to know how to balance a check book, compare prices in a store etc. Which is what they teach. The course is not entirely the personal finance course some think. When you pick a course you need to look deeper then the surface or the name. Read the course description. When picking any class on any level read the course description and ask questions as well as request the syllabus. Make sure you are making a wise decision.
DA says
While it would be preferable that parents teach their children financial literacy (and also fiscal responsibility) the reality is that this does not happen in many families because the adults in those homes are equally ignorant of these matters.
BCPS require students to pass a 1/2 credit financial literacy course (a Social Studies econ course) in their senior year in order to graduate. There is much more to this course than addition and subtraction.
As for LICW I am looking forward to a recommendation (by the recently formed committee assigned to evaluate this course) that HCPS scrap this waste of valuable instruction time.
Harford County Teacher says
I am a business teacher. Economics is not a financial literacy course. I took economics both in high school and in college… They are not the same. Financial Literacy is about how to plan, save, spend, and invest on a personal level. It teaches kids how to responsibly use credit and most importantly, how to not get into trouble like the adults of the last 5 to 8 years of this country. It teaches ethics and explains how to make money to be financially secure in the future without being unethical towards others.
ALEX R says
Absolutely agree. Economics as taught in educational institutions thru the post-graduate level has very little to do with personal financial literacy and responsibilty. I have about 45 or so economics courses at various levels thru graduate school so I do have a litle experience.
Kim Hampshire Holsapple says
Also, to all the comments about it should be the parents responsibility to teach their children – we can give them the foundation and a Business Teacher can build on it!!!
Some kids are not math people. I have a 14 year old who is struggling and a 10 year old who can’t wait to take the advanced math courses because she is so bored with Every Day Math!!
Colin says
Parental accountability is great and I am all in favor of it, but the truth is most parents are fairly ignorant to sound financial practices. I say do not let this replace math, do it like Baltimore County, 1/2 year econ/social studies credit, for seniors. Let it replace that waste of time LICW! Yes Mr. Franchot is a blame Wall Street, Big Brother knows best liberal, but that doesn’t make this a bad idea.
I was not implying, in my earlier comment, that college somehow helps you with personal financial knowledge. My point is that HCPS seems to have high school so geared for sending every kid to college that anything that seems to them to detract from that goal is no good.
Maybe we could have Personal Finance A.P. then this could teach kids personal finance and continue to pad Dr. Tombacks A.P. stats! Then again do we really want a “finance” class taught at the fiscally irresponsible Patterson Mill!
Cdev says
Again Financial Literecy is part of LICW. So are you saying there are parts of LICW worth retaining?
Colin says
No LICW is a complete waste of time. Financial literacy or whatever you want to call it should be 1/2 a year and taught to Seniors. Freshman are not prepared to retain that type info. But many seniors work and have cars, they are better prepared to understand and apply the info.
Cdev says
SO financial literacy in LICW a waste of time but a whole i/2 credit on financial literacy=good???? Double standard?
TR says
You’re splitting hairs here. It is obvious what Colin is getting at. Any legitimate aspects of LICW worth saving could be salvaged and incorporated into other courses. To cobble together the many cross curricular aspects of this course just to make up something to fit into the 4 period day was and continues to be a sham. Those within HCPS that are responsible for this should be ashamed of themselves for squandering student time and energy, in addition to the wasted financial and human resources HCPS expended on this course.
Cdev says
he said “No LICW is a complete waste of time.”
Complete being an operative word!
Harford County Teacher says
LICW is a class that the students don’t take seriously, are required to take in 9th grade (kids are 14), and spend very little time on personal finance. Just like typing (which is also gone from the high schools) students CANNOT retain the information or make useful healthy money habits when they only get the information in LICW for a few (at most weeks)classes. How much time do you think you would need to spend if you were a teenager to learn the ins and outs of credit, saving, planning, and spending… my guess is more than a few weeks (about 10 hours in class).
Harford County Teacher says
I am a Business Teacher in Harford County. From the meetings that I go to I feel that my county is not trying to get a stand alone Financial Literacy course at this point in time, or ever. Additionally, Harford County departments, such as Social Studies, think that their teachers cover it enough in their courses. However, I do not agree. I am a Business teacher who has a business degree as my undergraduate degree. Therefore, I feel that Business teachers are the BEST GROUP of teachers to teach students financial literacy because we accually had to take finance in college!!
Also, I agree that all students need a financial literacy course in high school and that it should be a REQUIRED course for graduation. It could be taught as a daily semester course paired with the second 1/2 credit of gym, or with the Foundations of Tech. class. OR it could be a alternating year long course, but either way, it should be either a 10th or 11th grade requirement. Seniors would be the best time to offer the class, but that might pose a problem for the kids who are already struggling with graduation requirements.
Please, all of you politicians, teachers, and parents who want your kids to be responsible with finances, please call the superintendents of the various counties and let them know that financial literacy IS JUST AS IMPORTANT AS math and reading skills!! And, the class should be taught by the Business department teachers!! We are part of the school even if you don’t know that we are here!!
amazed. says
@Harford County Teacher: This should be a simple task. Impress on students, early and often: Paying Interest is for Suckers. It should be on banners in every classroom in America. I hear all these horrific tales of credit card debt… my credit card debt is zero. None. If I can’t afford it I don’t buy it. Give them the choice… pay interest so the bank execs can live in posh mansions and laugh down at you or be smart. Pay $200 for a $12 pair of sneakers or be smart. Get one credit card with the best points or miles or cash back options you can find and pay all your bills with it… but make damned sure you pay it off every month. Use the card company instead of letting them use you. Whatever you do, Don’t Pay Interest.
jtownejeff says
So we should add another indocrtination course to public schools. Mr. Franchot found it necessary to call out predatory lending in his letter, we can rest assured that banks and credit card companies would get a very negative spin in the curriculum of a new financial literacy course. this is a topic for parents, and the parents are ill-prepared to teach this to their kids, shame on them and good luck to the kids. my elementary school aged children already have the basic understanding of credit, interest, saving, and planning. their allowances are like paychecks to them, and if they want an advance, they pay me interest. and it was the same for me when i was growing up. if the kid’s just ‘not that good at math’, perhaps a tutor is in order. some aspects of financial literacy cannot be taught anywhere beside the school of hard knocks. children whose parents gave them a solid foundation will survive those hard knocks. i made some stupid financial decisions as a teen and early 20’s, but my dad’s teachings helped me overcome what i brought on myself.
keep in mind, maryland just passed and has begun implementation of the “environmental literacy” requirement. i would quit my job and home-school my 6 kids if i could afford it.
Billy Jack says
Fortunately, for the children who don’t have parents who modeled and taught sound financial decision making, there are others who try to make decisions in their best interests. Your attitude seems selfish to me.
pizzle says
I think folks may have misread my comments regarding teaching financial literacy being a parent’s responsibility. My comment wasn’t meant to be completely negative towards the schools (except for the Everyday Math comment). It was more a jab at the fact that parents have essentially become “dumbed-down” over the years!
What could be the cause of this? My parents were born in the mid-40’s. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s. I was raised to respect my elders (particularly, Teachers). I cut lawns in the summer, delivered papers all year long, etc. I not only learned financial literacy, but also personal responsibility. What changed with parenting? Why is it that a parent nowadays is more likely to side with their kid when the school approaches them about their kid causing a disturbance in the classroom? Why is it that nowadays all I see are kids “hanging out” instead of working odd jobs? Why is it that most kids wouldn’t fathom cutting a lawn unless they earned at least $40 for doing so? The sense of entitlement or that “I’m owed something” has gotten way out of hand. I truly feel bad for the kids that have been raised by parents that don’t know how to balance a checkbook. It’s not the kid’s fault that their parents are ignorant.
In such cases it seems that having “Big Brother” step in is the next best option…..At least until such time that the school district gets sued by a parent that accuses them of not teaching their kid ENOUGH financial literacy to keep the kid from racking up tons of credit card debt in the future.
It’s comforting to know that the future of our country is in such “good hands”.
:o) says
I remember taking a half year course on personal finance when I was in 8th grade at Aberdeen Middle in 1989. We were taught how to balance a check book, keep a saving ledger, how to budget our money, and we learned about credit. It was valuable. My Mother had already been teaching me the importance of savings and credit so I was ahead of the game.
I agree that such things are the parents responsibility to teach their children the importance of earning, saving, and budgeting, but it’s obvious that many parents either don’t have the time to pass the information to their kids in a way that they will understand, or that they just simply don’t have enough understanding of personal finance themselves to be able to pass the knowledge to their kids. Let’s not forget that there are tons of deadbeat parents out there who just don’t care enough to talk to their children about morals and integrity, let alone finance. So yes, the responsibility is passed onto the school system.
Why not teach our kids personal finance in school….they learn the basics of how to prepare meals, how the reproduction system works, how to take care of children, and many other basic skills, so why not add personal finance to the curriculum…What could it hurt?
jtownejeff says
part of the problem is that “self esteem” has gotten way out of hand. parents are so concerned about their kids’ self esteem, that they let them get away with murder instead of correcting and DISCIPLINING poor behavior. and the kids pick up on this, especially teens. So because parents decline to do the actual job of parenting, they pawn it off on the schools.
It is not the school system’s place to be teaching “common sense” to my kids. My tax money should be focused on reading, writing, math, science, and social studies/history; instead, they waste valuable time indoctrinating environmental literacy, social justice, and now common finances.
Billy Jack – my attitude seems selfish? How so? Am I selfish for taking the parental responsibilities that I brought on myself seriously?
Kim – you said you can’t help your 14 year old with math, yet you were an accounting major? huh?
Pizzle – I usually agree with you, but big brother is NEVER the “next best option.” that is the first bad option. You did, however, bring up a solid point in that as parents concede more and more of their responsibilities to the schools, it is only a matter of time before it becomes one more complaint of “the schools aren’t doing enough”.
Bottom line: let the teachers focus on teaching the core subjects (see above), and parents need to step it up at home, or stop procreating.
noble says
When we bought our home the Fall before the downturn (when most people in business knew what was coming) we were still approved for a home loan that was about 25% more than the maximum we thought was sensibly affordable to us. It was things like that which cause me to warn everyone buying house to remember one thing: Everyone in the equation makes money but you– think about it.
I’ve read along these comments, reluctant to reply because this small issue is really part of a large and complex fabric. There are a few things at play here:
1. Lack of parenting
2. Lack of informed parenting
3. Lack of effective standards in education
4. Surplus of very smart advertising everywhere we go that makes us think we can have more than we should.
When I was in school, we were taught how the stock market worked and “played” the market in 6th grade. Balanced checkbooks by 8th. Where is that?
And we can come up with all these standards and teach kids and their parents all sorts of things, but the banks and marketing firms will re-invent tricky ways of doing thigns and rename everything and people get confused again and give up. That’s their plan. What you have to teach are the PRINCIPLES of finance. But like most other principles, people don’t have much interest in learning or adhering to them.
Schools shouldn’t be teaching it, parents should be, but because of a general destruction of the family unit, overworked parents, and nanny-like cradle to grave education instincts, kids don’t get what they need at home.
For now, schools are going to have to teach it. There’s no other way. And we need regulations that protect consumers both from themselves and from their banks.
When people don’t take on the responsibility as individuals, our government, our schools, and community organizations, etc, are going to have to do it.
Because eventually, it becomes everyone’s problem, not just a bad credit score on one person’s report.
David A. Porter says
I know of two adult children that come from a well to do family in Kingsville. The son inherited a considerable amount of money from an uncle and spent a large sum his car. Recently his home in Abingdon was foreclosed on and he went through a terrible divorce. His half sister is currently on state assistance for food, power and medical care, has defaulted on two leases which are now $6000 in judgments against her. She has had three different bank accounts in as many years and has been fired three times in the last year alone. Her credit score is hardly worth mentioning and each car she has owned was bought for her by someone else (who retains the title and registration). The idea of teaching these things in school is a noble idea and I believe my parents learned about balancing checkbooks when they were in high school. Our society today is extremely narcissistic and has a great sense of entitlement. But I doubt any amount of schooling in either private or public schools will reverse the effects of ineffectual parenting. As always, there are people who will benefit from opportunities that are offered to them, and then there are those that will fail to grasp that an opportunity is available that will help them when they are blinded by selfish motivations.
noble says
In truth, I agree with you. If the home life isn’t meeting or supporting these needs, no amount of instruction at school is going to do squat.
But just because something might be impossible, is not a measure of the worth of doing it. If it needs to be done, you do it, regardless of the probability of success, because it’s the right thing to do.
To do, or not do otherwise, is unAmerican.
David A. Porter says
Thank you Noble. It is the right thing to do. Whatever the result. And that should be enough to guide anyone in the choices they make.
ALEX R says
David A Porter,
Actually, I think I know exactly those folks. They don’t have enough common sense between them to come in out of the rain and they don’t have enough money left between them to buy an umbrella.
May I give you a biblical quotation? “And the poor parenting and lack of a useful education will result in 3 or 4 generations of children who can’t function even with every thing handed to them.” Exodus 34:7 in the Bible According to Alex
Jarrettsville Mom says
At the time one of my children was choosing classes for the 10th grade, as parents, we suggested that the Consumer Match class be considered a choice. We received a call from a school counselor asking us what we were thinking. That this is a class for Sr’s that need a math class to graduate, the insinuation was that this was a class for the math illiterate. We told this counselor that we have a student going into the working world as a high school sophomore and before that child goes to college we wanted to ensure that they were prepared to handle their finances while away from home. That we were opening a checking account for them and co-signing for a credit card so that they could learn fiscal responsibility and if by chance they did mess up it was while at home and not miles away. That we wanted our child to know how to calculate interest on their savings account, mortgage and possible school loans. That we in no way agree that credit cards are to be used unless in case of an emergency, but our children need to be educated on how the credit system works and how it can work against you too! We felt that while we were instructing at home that just maybe times had changed and while we were teaching values that maybe there was trick or updated issues that our child could learn in this class to make them a better consumer. Then in their Jr. year our child continued back on the math track. While I will tell you that our child will never use all of the math functions that they learned in high school, that Consumer Math class was a wealth of information. As a college student they maintain their bank accounts and the credit card is respected and the school loan, well that was another way for us to teach responsibility. Yes we are fortunate enough to be able to afford college but what would our child learn if money is just handed out like a free pass. Ownership is what is what we are teaching now. Fiscal responsibility should start at home, but in reality what is taught is entitlement. So while we are those parents that do teach responsibility we were not afraid to point our children in the direction of a subject matter expert. LICW does only touch on these matters and we believe that more time needs to be spent on them. And your correct in saying that it should not be a Social Studies teacher but a Math teacher instructing in this matter.
Kharn says
My high school education in Maryland included calculus, electromagnetic physics, computer programming, Shakespeare and Hemingway, but not one day of how a credit card, checking account, car loan, student loan or mortgage works because I was on the college track.
Theoretical subjects sound great when a school is asking for more funding or saying why a family should move to its district, but how about teaching kids what they will need to know to survive in the real world? Some kids are luckily enough to have parents that can/will explain household economics to them (and serve as a good example of balancing the monthly budget), but many do not. College students are also the most likely to end up with gigantic loans, be bombarded with credit card offers at every football game, etc, but Maryland’s current curriculm send them off to college without any forewarning of the financial minefield they’re entering.
ALEX R says
Kharn,
As a taxpayer and a parent in the State of Maryland may I apologize to you? We have allowed the educational establishment to run amok doing its own thing for so long and as a result we have allowed irreparable damage to many students who have gotten themselves in to enormous financial problems. I don’t know if we will ever be able to get it to where it should be. Some of us are trying to do it. We look forward to people like you joining us in this uphill battle so more aren’t damaged.
HDG READER says
I took Consumer Math in 11th grade back in 1992. It was an elective and I thought it would be a good idea for me because I learned to balance a checkbook, prepare a budget, learn about unit pricing at grocery stores, figure out the cost of goods using percentages and how to read stocks in the newspaper. It did benefit me after I graduated and I had to get my own bank account and start contributing to the household once I got my first job.
I’ve always said that this is the type of math schools should give their students, not algebra, trig, geometry, etc. Yes, it’s needed if kids are going to become chemists, scientists, engineers, researchers and other similiar careers. However, not everyone is going to move on from school to college but right into the workforce. They need these “real-world” skills to function especially if they are not being taught them at home.
I find it funny that Jeff thinks it’s indoctrination. Are we so intent on making public school education an enemy of our country that trying to give students a chance to learn fiscal responsibility (a huge talking point of the GOP/TEA mind you) is now a bad thing? If I were a parent, I would be happier knowing my child had the chance to learn skills that he or she would actually have to use in everyday situations, instead of formulas and theories they may never use.
Cdev says
Not sure what theories are taught in a math class. They might teach theorems, that is entirely different however!