The president of the Harford County Education Association, which represents teachers in Harford County Public Schools, has issued the following call for union members to attend a presentation on the availability of county funds to be given to the Harford County Board of Education on May 21st by the union’s outside financial expert, R.J. Pellicoro. The union is involved in a dispute with the school board over raises negotiated for the current school year. Contract negotiations for next year have taken place between the school board and the union, but no agreement between the parties has been announced.
The following message from President Randy Cerveny was posted on the Harford County Education Association Web site:
In talking with many of you, it’s obvious that you are tired and frustrated, having lived on a declining income for the last three years with little relief in sight. When you entered the field of teaching you understood that you would never get rich, but believed that your income would increase a little each year to a point you would be able to survive. Several years ago, many of you made financial decisions based on a salary schedule that has now stagnated. I understand that you feel disillusioned with a school system that does not advocate for adequate educational funding for its students, or its employees, in a county that does not prioritize education.
The financial crisis has caused almost everyone to adjust priorities. You are doing what you need to do to maintain your primary job, teaching, while many of you work at least one part-time job. For some, a part-time job has caused you to cut back on what you do for your students beyond your normal work day. The times you have stayed after school to help struggling students, or provided enrichment, are fewer and fewer. I understand your anguish in having to stop doing so many of the extra things that you used to do to enhance the education of your students.
I know some of you have even considered taking a job in another county school system, one that values its teachers more. I understand that– but I am asking you to consider staying in the fight here in Harford County. Our county finances are relatively healthy. We need to speak up so the county funds of our schools adequately.
I know some of you are considering dropping your Association membership to “give yourself a raise.” This is particularly unwise, partly because it leaves you vulnerable to the on the job problems and accusations of wrong-doing or poor performance. But even more, it weakens the one voice, the one vehicle you have to work in an organized way to improve schools and protect your standard of living.
I am urging you, pleading with you, to join HCEA in the fight for adequate funding of our schools and your salaries. Many of you stepped forward to email the County Council and Board of Education on HCEA’s Days of Action, April 30th and May 1st. We need to continue this effort in taking action around the General Assembly Special Session on the state budget. We need you to come to the Board of Ed Meeting on May 21st to hear HCEA’s and HCESC’s presentation on the availability of county funds from our Association’s outside financial expert, R.J. Pellicoro. Join us before hand at 5PM in the Bel Air High School for a briefing and personal Q&A with Mr. Pellicoro.
In order to sustain the momentum of this good fight, we need you to be alert for information, check the HCEA website (www.harfordcea.org), and be prepared to act, so we can continue the fight through May and June for you and the students.
Your Advocate,
Randy Cerveny
perhaps Randy should sell his massive comic book collection if times are tough. Some of us have tightened our belts and learned to live within their means. You teachers should really teach that!
Frank,
I ask simply this: What makes you think teachers have not tightened their belts? Back this suggestion up with real examples of teachers in this county exercising extravagant living that can be easily verified via this medium. Please, I’m waiting.
Frank, let me ask you this also: Are you even aware what teachers really do off the clock? I, and teachers I have spoken with, meet with parents and students, grade for hours into the evening, get those wake-up calls from an emergency room that one of your students attempted suicide and wants to see you, visited with the same or other students in recovery from said attempts, talked students out of running away from home, comforted them after the loss of a family member or pet, buy them athletic gear when they couldn’t afford it, bought them supplies because mom or dad spent all the money that month on drugs or alcohol or helped them with extra time for school work because mom or dad were in rehab. I could go on.
These things we do everyday we don’t shine a light on them – it would be arrogant and somehow self-boasting. We do them because they have to be done and if we don’t who will? In my school of 1100 students there is ONE parent who helps the kids by helping us; and her kids GRADUATED three years ago!
So, tell you what Frank, if it isn’t money you’d be willing to part with in exchange for our services – how about your time? Can you come in and make me some copies? How about watching my kids at 3 AM when the next call from the emergency room comes? How about swing by and help grade some papers – it’s be nice to have them done more quickly so I could spend time with my own family? Come on Frank – fair consideration for the job we do or your time? You pick.
But if you are willing to work for free, why should anyone pay you? When you finish paying off your mortgage, are you going to keep sending money to your mortgage company just to thank them for all their hard work? It’s really nice of teachers to do all the free things they do just because “who else will do them”, but no one is going to pay for what they can get for free. It’s just common sense.
And as far as buying kids supplies because they don’t have them or their parents won’t buy them, that’s really gracious of you. But society is not going to reimburse you for that. Why? Because they don’t have to. They got you to pay for it, and that’s the end of that. And getting teachers to pay for things because they feel bad for the kids is just one more way that the system and the public is able to cut down on their own costs.
I am a teacher thank you, and not in the stupid union. Nobody forces you to be a teacher. If you do not like the pay find another job. We are all sick of union boo-hooing
Frank,
Thank-you for being one of those teachers! Hopefully more teachers will follow your lead and accept having their salaries frozen and their benefits eroded all while helping put their only representation out of business! I hope you volunteer to help with a lot of extra-curricular after school events as well, which means free labor for parents of the kids you work with!
These are the kinds of teachers we need! Teachers who will accept working more for less. If we can get more teachers like you, think of all the money tax-payers will save without any impact on their kids education!
Thanks!
AMEN, AMEN. I work for the County and we haven’t received any increases either. Be thankful you have a job.
@AnotherHCPSTeacher:
Interesting perspective….1 question though – Why would you receive a phone call from an emergency room at 3:00 AM pertaining to one of your students? I find it hard to believe that an emergency room staffer would call a non-family member and release or inform same of a pending medical situation. Sorry, I think I have to throw the BS towel on that one.
Pick up your towel Coach… the emergency room didn’t call. You might have served the cause of intellect by asking a question instead of thorwing an accusation. The parent called – said child wouldn’t speak to mom or dad… asked to speak to their teacher who they trusted more. See how simply gathering a few facts can save one from looking like an idiot in the public arena?
I think the $400+ dollars a year I save by not joining the Union is much more beneficial to me and my family. Do teachers deserve to get their steps, of course we do, should we advocate for our steps, absolutely. The problem with unions (or associations) in general is that they are never happy. If we had received our steps and cola the last few years the HCEA would still be standing with their hand out demanding more. The highly politicized teacher association in Harford County does not represent me or my beliefs on most issues. My wife and I are both teachers and we somehow manage to live within our means. We of course would like to have more money to live more comfortably, but people who are working 2,3, or 4 extra jobs are making/have made some bad choices somewhere along the line to need that much extra income.
I think you are wise to stay out of the union and leave it up to the benevolence of the county politicians and school officials to decide what your salary and benefits should be. If you really think about it, teachers salaries and benefits are a top priority of local and state politicians. These people would never try to undercut teachers. I can’t think of any group of people who are more fair and equitable when it comes to helping teachers better their lot in life than politicians and school administrators.
And you are right…if the county had given teachers what they were contractually obligated to give them, all the union would have done was asked for more. Thankfully, the county officials had the foresight to freeze salaries for several years, and to negotiate in poor-faith, lest the greedy teachers union ask for more.
“I know some of you are considering dropping your Association membership to “give yourself a raise.”” Last I checked, HCEA’s dues are $596/yr. Maybe the union could cut them back to $50/yr to show support for struggling teachers until the step issue is resolved?
“This is particularly unwise, partly because it leaves you vulnerable to the on the job problems and accusations of wrong-doing or poor performance.” If lack of union membership leads to problems for poor performance, does that mean the union is sheltering poor performers?
Why should union membership guard against accusations of wrong-doing? Wrong is wrong, regardless of how many cards are in a teacher’s wallet.
Until HCEA enters 3-way negotiations with HCPS and the County government, don’t expect a warm reception to your complaints about lack of funding. Negotiating with a dry well doesn’t make water appear.
A couple points the issue with the vulnerablity is the legal representation provided by the union. If a teacher was accused of something and it would be wrong if true but in fact was untrue they would have to pay for a lawyer out of pocket however their union dues includes the legal fees and lawyer upfront. Not saying this happens all the time but it does happen from time to time. If one drops their union dues they lose this coverage. A more reasonable example would be if Johnny is systemically passed on, despite the teachers recomendation otherwise, and gets to high school and can not read. Mom sues and names every teacher in the lawsuit. Mrs. Smith, his kindergarten teacher, now needs a lawyer. If she stops paying dues she has to pay for it herself.
Secondly HCEA has not been invited to a threeway negotiation as I can tell they can’t even get an honest two way dialouge as it is!
I agree. Teachers are never accused of wrong doing unless they truly did something wrong. They are never given poor evaluations because of political disagreements with their superiors, or because they are at the top of the salary scale and are trying to be squeezed out, or because and administrators nephew just graduated college and needs a job.
The administration of HCPS (and of public schools in general) is the most apolitical, fair, equitable, honest, and organized management system in our society. So any teacher who needs to hide behind a union to protect themselves from a system of such model integrity like school administration is obviously inept, because competent people never become targets simply because they don’t fit someone’s political agenda.
When I thought your where sarcastic I didn’t object to point one but now I must speak up. Look at the teacher in New Jersey who had the Autistic kid who’s dad wanted her head on a plater and accused her of bullying etc. She had to hire a lawyer. As it turned out she was not in the room and was not present for the acts he attributes to her. In the association her lawyer would not cost her a dime!
I had a child accuse me of pushing him. I NEVER did anything. And I was investigated. It turned out to be nothing. I joined the union because of the legal protection it provides you. Yes, good teachers are accused of things that they never did. And yes, teachers need to protect themselves.
I dropped out of the union for this very reason. I love it how they try to justify themselves. Randy makes over $100,000.00 a year. It really about money, more money for the union leaders so that they can pass it along to the politicians. Vote the bums out.
Sadly many teachers believe that their lifestyle is not lavish. I can count on both hands plus many more fingers the number of the teachers in our area the have lavish homes as well as a vacation home, take multiple vacations abroad, have built in pools and are complaining because of salaries and their benefits. In the corporate world we too have taken a hit with this economy, we too have to work extra just to make ourselves stand out there in an time of layoffs and closings – sure we don’t have a union to protect the slackers and I for one am happy about that. As with any responsbile member of society teachers do need to live within their means and live with what they have today not expecting what tomorrow will bring. I spoke to a few teachers out of PA who are terrified of loosing their jobs, their sports, music and arts programs are being cut out entirely up there, their schools are being consolidated and closed. Please don’t bit the hand that feeds you in this county. Of course the grass is always greener somewhere else, that is until you get there and see things up close. Teachers in Harford County have it good and they know it all the way down the line. I had someone tell me the other day that they want to get in the system basically for the benefits and will start as a custodian if they must. Be careful with drawing too much attention to your situation that you might shoot yourselfs in the foot. Then who would pay the mortgage on that beach house? (we are a two income family with one house, two of ours in college and living within our means, no tropical vacations or vacation homes but you can’t take that with you!)
When the economy rebounds and those in the private sector get lavish pennsions and large Colas will teachers get them too? I ask because it seem,s last time we had that scenario teachers did not get those. They got told that in times like these they would get step increases. Currently a science, math or special ed teacher with 13 years experience and a masters can leave HCPS where they are on step 9 and go to Baltimore or Cecil county and get step 14 next year and a 10,000 dollar raise!
Sadly, this is true. Google the teacher salary schedule for Cecil County. The difference in salary for teachers of exact experience is even more mind boggling. How can a smaller county like Cecil, with a smaller tax base and lower property values, pay their teachers so much more than Harford?
Its simple. Lower taxes almost always brings in more revenues to the government.
How do you figure?
Cdev – Private sector pensions? Are you insane? Who gets a pension in the non-union private sector?
Sorry I meant bonuses. Teachers got to give more to their pension and got limited colas while private sector employees raked in huge bonuses and colas in the double digits. The response at the time was that teachers get predictable increases and should settle for less. It seems that is not the case.
Cdev – Millions of private sector employees lost their jobs over the past four years.
OK your point we are in an economic downturn. The promise that people who claim this logic made to teachers was that they would get small and predictable increases. Now we as a county are renegging on the deal. BTW Millions of people in the private sector have gotten new jobs too!
Unemployment in Harford County (not seasonally adjusted) is at 7% the high was in Feb 2010; 9%. Of course not down to the 3% from 2008 when all this salary freezing started! It never had to do with losing jobs because the salary freezing started before the job hemoraging occured which seems to be moving for the better!
Southern Maryland and the DC area are the only counties in Maryland which are doing better and Baltimore City, Baltimore County, Cecil are all worse off than we are and everyone in the state is better off than a year ago. The National unemployment is 8.4%. So we are doing better than the national average in our slow recovery!
Cdev – There are many folks still without jobs and many who are underemployed making less than they did before the recession.
Private sector employees do not generally ever get COLAs, and these unbelievably large bonuses that they supposedly have received exist primarily in Internet posts by folks who support unions. It just didn’t happen.
Your contention is that the salary freezing is because others do not have jobs. The salary freezing in this county started when Unemployment was at 3%!!!!!! it has nothing to do with jobs.
If we apply free market logic and you are a physicist and lost your job with a lab because they have to let you go you either broden your search or look for a related job. I once recall an economist on this website argueing he lost his job and was not going to accept any new job that was not as an economist in this area. If that is his attitude his unemployment is his own fault at this point. He could have gone to school and gotten a different job at this point.
I went to hire a contractor to put up a fence for me this weekend. I called 10 of them 8 told me the earliest they could do the work was September because they have so many jobs. The other 2 came and gave me estimates. Either way jobs are not the reason!
J Mom – I hope your intent was sarcasm or satire? If not, what are the occupations of each spouse of these “teachers”? You might want to consider one of those custodial positions since your corporate gig is that bad. Maybe you could even get that pool and vacation home in about about 1000 years.
Some of their spouses are teachers and vice principals and principals and those make positions make six figures
What teacher working for HCPS makes 6 figures?
The vice principals and principals do, not the teachers that I am aware of
I bet Jarrettsville Mom does not work but drives a huge Ford Expedition. Stupid
J Mom does work and volunteers and has a spouse that does the same. She has children that exceed in this school system and are attending college on our dime not someone elses because we pay our way. We also pruchased a home within our means, have an account for our childrens college, wedding and retirement. We pay our own way thank you very much.
AND before you comment on my typos I apologize in advance 🙂
Only the week minded comment on typos!
What does the make of her car have to do with this discussion?
Vacation homes???? I have been teaching for over 2 decades, and the only teachers I have met with vacation homes have them because their spouse makes a better income in the private sector.
As far as the PA comment goes you really don’t want to compare HCPS to PA. Teachers make way more in PA.
Belts have been tightened, I take home less now than I did 5 years ago. My insurance, pension, and other contributions have increased (not by my choice), but my pay hasn’t. The state is now going to put pensions back on the county, which will cause more tightening.
HCPS may have to make a choice give raises and cut programs, or keep adding programs and not pay those who run them.
Look I am not saying we need raises every year, but you can’t really expect teachers to keep waiting. I know other areas have been hit hard, and do I think they should go 5 years without an increase? No they shouldn’t.
OT, I have a very nice vacation home. It fits in my trunk and goes up in minutes. Let’s not be greedy now. 😉
Seriously, who are these teachers living in “lavish” homes and taking “multiple vacations abroad?” Their spouses must be making enough money for two.
I agree with you – all I am saying is that we are all in the same boat. I have a professional postion and my spouse it a tradesman both have been hit – we have never received bonuses, I have not seen a raise in four years- I am just happy to be employed and holding my own because of smart decisions we have made. Many of the issues lie with peoples expectations and the only remotely secure thing we all have right now, today, is we have a job. We all need to live within our means, government included and we all need to realize that we are paid for the job not because we are, but the value of the position. The important thing is to find ways to roll with this because like in the 70’s this to will pass. I could complain about that. As we ventured into higher education we found that college now have to test children because they are gratuation without the proper knowledge in reading, writing and math. No it is not entirely the fault of the teacher but I blame the education system on that. The situation in Pennsylvania will cause some teachers there to come here looking for work so our teachers that want and need to work need to stay on their game and not give anyone a reason to look at them twice. Sadly we live in a country where everyone feels like they are entitled whether it is because they are a teacher, a preacher or a health care provider. Our insurance keeps rising but take a look at these hospitals that now look like high end hotels – is that really necessary? I want good health care I don’t care if there is a piano in the lobby or murals on the walls and high end chefs in their kitchens – keep the focus on what is important. So the hospital raise their rates and the insurance companies have to charge more to make up the difference. This way of thinking is what got the banks in trouble. Instead of being banks they branched out into the mortgage business and other areas where they should not have been giving loans to people which were more then those people should have had and then the bottom falls out and look where we are – It is sad but this too will change as it has before.
These greedy teachers! How dare someone with a bachelors degree, a masters degree, and 30+ additional credits plus 15 or more years of experience on the job expect a cost of living increase! They should be grateful that they are given the privelege of working all the extra free hours they work to help everyone else’s kids succeed, even if they can’t afford to send their own kids to college. If you can’t be completely benevolent and selfless, then you have no business being in a classroom!
And can you believe HCEA? Actually expecting the school system to uphold their contractual agreements? The HCPS school board, the administration, the superintendent, the county council, David Craig…THEY are the people looking out for the teachers best interest. Not that greedy HCEA bunch. That’s it, teachers…you should all quit HCEA and leave it up to Craig and Tomback and the council to decide your salary and benefits! Enough with Cerveny and HCEA getting in the way of your getting a fair deal!
Teachers should NEVER be given a raise for any reason. Why? Because you don’t need to pay them to get work out of them.
Think about it…HCPS teachers haven’t been given a raise since 2008, but how many of them have quit coaching? How many of them have stopped running clubs, plays, shows, etc? Virtually none of them. And the ones that do become ostracized and accused of “taking it out on the kids” by their bosses, the public, and even other teachers! So there is tremendous pressure for teachers to keep providing free services while their incomes decline. Teachers will work for free. They won’t stop working just because you don’t pay them!
And a lot of them are so naive that they think that the more work they do, the more clout it gives them when it comes time for a raise. “I work X number of hours a day grading, tutoring, running math counts club, putting on a school musical, so I deserve cost of living increase” and they actually think that this is going to encourage the public to grant them a raise! Who in their right mind would pay for something that they are already getting for free?
The young kids that enter teaching are dying to prove their worth, so they’ll work until they’re burned out. Five or six years into their career, they’re out the door! You got max work out of them without ever having to pay them top scale. And the older teachers…don’t let them kid you! They aren’t going to uproot their families and move to another place just to make five or ten grand a year more.
So there you have it! As long as teachers will work for free, let them! The young ones are the most bang for the buck, the old ones aren’t going anywhere. So there is really no reason to ever give them a raise!
Then the answer is for teachers to work to rule. Apparently that is the only way to get your attention and see the value in the extras that teachers do.
I agree! If teachers would “work to rule” they would certainly make people see how much extra they do. I don’t need them to do it, because I do recognize how much extra work they do and how much it helps parents and kids.
But that’s beside the point, because they absolutely would never do it! Teachers will NEVER work to rule. Why? Because “why take it out on the kids”, and “if I don’t do it then who will?”, and “I didn’t go into teaching to get rich”, and “the union doesn’t represent my interests (i.e. salary, benefits, working conditions, etc.).
So there you have it! Teachers will NOT stand up for themselves no matter how poorly you treat them. They think that all the wonderful things they do are suddenly going to make the world financially benevolent towards them. They are naive and they allow themselves to be taken advantage of and manipulated. If they DID do something en masse like work to contract, they would have unbelieveable power to improve their lot in life. But they won’t do it. So they get what they get!
If work to rule was implemented aside from ‘taking it out on the kids’ which is bad enough, there would be those who say ‘see teachers get exactly what they deserve’. It is a no win situation until such time as American society’s view of teachers changes from one of filling a utilitarian role to that of being a nurturer of the nation’s children.
just keep racing to the bottom
Work to rule would be uncomfortable to everyone for awhile but in the end it would make enough people wake up to the fact that they cannot continue to take advantage of the good nature and dedication of teachers. In short order enough pressure would be brought to bare on politicians and school administrators to make teaching a respected profession again. When teachers get frustrated they leave the profession but if teachers really want to demonstrate their real worth to society they need to stand up and be counted. If not you will continue to get more of the attitude expressed by obvious.
This is unbelievable!! Teacher are responsible for giving your children what they NEED to be successful in life. I can’t believe that the citizens of Harford County do not support teachers. These are the very people that will call a school and ask me to stay late and help THEIR kid with missing work or skills they are struggling with, FOR FREE. Call Sylvan and ask them, see if that’s FREE. I am not asking HCPS to GIVE me anything, I am EXPECTING them to HONOR their contract. 1 or 2 years with no step is one thing, but 3 or 4 it’s time to weigh my options. I urge other teachers to work to contract, these people are right, why would they give us a raise if we continue to work for free.
The problem isn’t the teachers, it is the HCEA leadership. Mr Cerveny knowingly negotiates with the powerless HCPS and then cries when their demands are not fiscally capable of being met. Mr Cerveny attempted to turn a one-time bonus into an annual pay increase by playing political games. Mr Cerveny cries that teachers should not take their money elsewhere and waves the boogieman of malicious school administrations while still charging nearly $600/yr for membership.
Cerveny can read the papers just like anyone else: Maryland’s tax revenues are not matching expenditures and the Governor has called a special session to increase taxes to stop the bleeding. When the state gets less money, the counties get less money, which means less money for schools, teachers, transportation, etc. The economy as a whole is in the dumpster, with 12.7% of Maryland workers classified as under-employed, discouraged, unemployed or involuntarily part-time.
In 2007, diesel was around $2.85/gal, in 2008 it jumped to nearly $3.75/gal (around which it has stayed since, averaging $3.86/gal in 2011), if the price of fuel jumps 30% where does that money come from? It doesn’t take very long walking around the grocery store to see that food prices have increased substantially. Electricity and natural gas have increased in price since 2007 as well. HCPS can’t turn off the electricity, or shut down the steam plant, or cut back on bus routes or stop serving lunch, so the only place to get the money is from teachers’ salaries and/or benefits.
Mr Cerveny seems to think all of those alternatives are viable courses of action. And that is why taxpayers are displeased with the HCEA’s shenanigans.
First HCEA has no choice about who to negotiate with. The only person they can negotiate with is HCPS.
Second. Un-employment and under employment in Harford county is actually far lower than the rest of the state. If we follow your logic why are we cutting property taxes or not tapping the rainey day fund when it is so clearly raining!
I agree. HCEA’s shenanigan’s have netted teachers a lot of money over the past few years at the expense of the taxpayers, so it’s no wonder taxpayers are sick of HCEA.
In the past few years HCEA’s antics have netted the teachers…well, ok, the teachers haven’t had a cost-of-living increase, but they still got all those massive step increases. Oh, wait…they didn’t get those either. Well, ok, but what about all those huge increases in benefits that…oh, wait, the teachers have had their benefits eroded as well…
Well, no matter. Taxpayers are sick of HCEA’s shenanigan’s because while they haven’t actually received any pay increases either in the way of steps or cola’s, and their benefits have gone down, HCEA would actually like to see the teachers get some kind of increase at least once in five years, and the taxpayers are sick of hearing about how it could be funded if they actually were to get an increase.
So yeah! Taxpayers are sick of hearing HCEA talk about how the teachers can get their first raise in five years! But how dare those greedy teachers complain they haven’t had a raise in five years! They should be grateful they have jobs!
@Realist – You need a reality check! You should quit and find a private sector job see how green the grass is.
Who works for FREE in the private sector. I do believe unless you are salaried, you get time and a half for OT. If I worked in the private sector, I could sue for breach of contract independently, not depend on an ineffective Union. I never said the grass was greener, I just want to be treated fairly. A teacher new to the county should not make more than me. Up until this year new hires were paid according to their years of service, they were not asked to give up a step. I am being penalized for being loyal to HCPS. WOW.
But you are still loyal to HCPS. This is the point I’ve been making about HCPS teachers; they will allow themselves to be abused and taken advantage of, and they’ll do nothing about it. Everyone knows this, so there is no incentive to actually improve salaries and benefits.
It’s common sense really. Why pay more when you can get the same thing for less? Until teachers wake up and stand up for themselves this is exactly what they should expect. But they won’t wake up and they won’t stand up for themselves because they don’t want people to think they aren’t dedicated, or that they are more interested in money than they are kids, aka “bad teacher”!
@Realist – Get a private sector job and find out all the perks and rights you’ll have.
You’re a teacher you live a charmed life and don’t know it.
LETS REVEAL SOME OF THE MYTHS RELATED TO TEACHING:
Myth #1: Teachers get paid in the summer.
Myth #2: Teachers are paid when we stay late to tutor students.
Myth #3: Anybody can teach, it’s easy.
Myth #4: Students come in and listen to what teachers say.
Myth #5: Administators support teachers.
Myth #6: Central Office is helpful and supportive.
Myth #7: People Care. We never have to break up physical fights or get verbally assaulted by students, parents, and guardians.
Myth #8: Parents help out.
Myth #9: Education is a priority in Harford County.
Myth #10: Teachers receive a 30 minute duty-free, professional lunch.
Myth #11: Teachers are paid for all of the work that they do outside of the duty day(Teachers are expected to do all of the following in 45 minutes: grading papers, planning lessons, filling out social security forms and pediatric reports, providing parents with additional supports and tutoring, emailing and calling parents, updating grades and IEP’s through the online systems, assessing state data through online systems, creating teams and schedules for students, counseling students through their tragedies, creating, writing, and evaluating a professional development plan, and meeting with administrators as needed)
Myth #12: Teachers advanced degrees (which are required by the state of Maryland) are paid in full by the district.
Myth #13: My salary paid for my 3 bedroom, 1 bath house and my $825,000 vacation home in Bethany Beach. Really? Get real.
HCEA is downstairs in my school’s lunch room right now answering questions. The answer to everything is ,”There is nothing we can do.” So why the f*** should I join this jokje of a union? No Way.
Of course, one of the things that makes a union weak is when the people it is there to represent refuse to be part of it. I think they call it “solidarity”. Lack of solidarity makes for a weak union, and lack of willingness to be part of the union creats lack of solidarity.
So I agree with you 100%! There’s no sense joining a weak cause, even if the purpose of it is to give you representation. No worries! The general public and the politicians the elect have a long history of being supportive of teachers in Harford County, especially when it comes to salaries, wages, working conditions, etc. No sense wasting your money supporting a weak union when you already have the public, the politicians, the school board, the superintendent, the county council, and the county exec already working on your behalf!
You continue to make the same sarcastic comments hoping that someone will say “Hey you know what your right on”. Times are bad, teachers are underappreciated, and that still doesn’t lead us to a solution. As stated above the Union doens’t represent me in most of my beliefs, so I’m not going to join them to show solidarity. If I agreed with the HCEA and all that they wanted, I would happily pay the dues and support the group, but they are so far removed from the realities of my life that I can in no way endorese giving them my money. I’m not really sure who the Jarretsville mom was talking about, but I would guess as many have mentioned the spouse of that teacher makes way more than we do. My point was that any teacher who complains about needing to have 2 or 3 extra jobs is not being fiscally responsible somewhere in their life. We don’t make big money here, but we certainly make enough to survive. Should we settle for survival, of course not, but this is a current reality.
The next time you receive any benefit (salary, medical benefits, working conditions, legal protections) from HCEA negotiations please decline to accept them. Please announce yourself to be an independent contractor and do all of your own negotiating with the school board and county government and see just how far you get. Why would you want to receive any advantage from the efforts of others in which you played no part nor supported?
Well, for the same reason that people will accept teachers running plays, coaching sports, running clubs, but will still refuse to acknowledge that they are getting the shaft!
The public doesn’t have to be supportive of teacher salary increases in order to reap the benefit of the teachers work. Likewise, teachers don’t have to be union members to reap the benefits of the unions work. See? It goes round and round! Everyone, including teachers, are just as glad to get something for nothing.
Except that the fewer teachers that are in the union, the less clout the union has. So that’s why teachers have got nothing for five years and can’t do a darned thing about it. But the public keeps benefiting from teachers who will work on the cheap.
Observer makes the perfect case for joining and saying in HCEA.
I will gladly return the steps and cola that I’ve received over the last few years.
And what of the raises negotiated on your behalf by HCEA when the economy was better, want to give those back too? Perhaps you would prefer observer’s method to slash your salary and benefits enough to drive you out of teaching. You may not have gotten much in salary over the past few years but I can guarantee you that without HCEA standing their ground you would be even worse off today than you are.
Fred, what do you mean “sarcastic”? I’m not being even slightly sarcastic! I personally would never give a raise to someone who is willing to work for free as a lot of teachers are; luckily, not everyone thinks like me, and teachers like yourself seem to feel pretty sure that your state, local, and school officials are working for your cause. That’s why I completely agree with your decision to not join and pay dues to a weak union! Who needs to do that when you have so many people already looking out for your best interests?
I’m not sure you know what sarcasm is.
Yes, I know what sarcasm is. And I’m not using it.
What I have said on this forum is completely on the up and up. I think teachers should quit their union because the union does nothing for them but take away more of their money. I think the teachers should trust their elected officials and school officials to act in their best interests. I think we should continue to freeze teacher salaries and benefits, as teachers will continue to work for free or at reduced rates regardless. It just makes economic sense.
What have elected politicians and school officials done lately that would warrant trust on the part of teachers? The methods you suggest that government and school administrators take toward teachers do not create an atmosphere of trust.
Well, look at the “bonus” fiasco. All that David Craig wanted to do was give the teachers a Christmas bonus, and HCEA made a mess out of it. Then you have the county refusing to fund the raises and step increases because they can’t afford them. And all HCEA does is whine and complain and file grievances with the Labor Board.
So if HCEA is wrong about all their stances in defense of teacher salaries and benefits and the teachers are dropping membership in droves, it must be that they trust their elected officials and school administrators to act on their behalf.
@ observer, The last I read (other DAGGER article) the Labor Board ruled in favor of HCEA and is challenging HCPS in court efforts by HCPS to stall returning to the bargaining table for negotiations. The county executives actions with the bonus were an attempt to circumvent the collective bargaining process. I can also tell you that teachers do not trust the politicians or many of the higher ups in the school system.
Well, yes, all that is true. But then why are so many teachers leaving HCEA? It doesn’t make sense, does it? If HCEA is working on behalf of the teachers, why are so many teachers anti-HCEA?
Furthermore, what difference does it make whether or not the Labor Board agrees with HCEA if the teachers aren’t members and are willing to work for free?
“I think the teachers should trust their elected officials and school officials to act in their best interests”
If you really don’t think that your above statement is sarcasm, please look up the definition for the word. From your tone, you don’t really believe that we can trust politicians, and you can’t be so misguided that you think I trust them just because I’m not part of the HCEA. Your comments are the absolute definition of sarcasm. The long and short of it is teachers are in a tough spot and it won’t be better for a while. You are correct, there will always be eager young teachers ready to take a job, and in this economy you can’t blame them. Some teachers will move to a new area, or leave the profession, and those new teachers will continue to fill vacant spots. I continue to do my job because I like teaching and I was raised to go out and work. I don’t have time to sit and whine about everything, under the sun, and if I get to the point where I’m fed up enough I’ll leave. I’ve had many jobs where I felt like I deserved higher pay, but I appreciated that I had a job and did it until something else came along. I don’t think that HCEA or politicians have my best interest at heart, but they get to make the calls until I get a new job that doesn’t involve either. Be quite and teach, move on to a new job, or start your own mutiny, those are the only options.
Fred,
You are an ideal teacher! You have the perfect attitude: you’ll take what you’re given, be grateful for whatever you’re given, you’ll keep doing it even when you’re getting the shaft, and you’ll oppose anyone who argues with your employer to increase your salary and benefits.
Thankfully, there seem to be many teachers like you in HCPS, and for that I’m grateful! Hopefully your attitude is well known among the ranks of those who decide on school funding. It will help keep assuring maximum benefit with minimal cost to the taxpayers of Harford County.
Thanks for all you do, thanks for doing it cheap, and thanks for helping me make my case for not having to raise teachers salaries!
@observer(handle thief), The working arrangement you describe, and advocate, is more accurately described as serfdom.
This is not just a teacher/school system issue, it pertains to allow County public servants. I personally don’t believe teachers should be getting pay increases when other county workers do not regardless of a bargaining agreement. If the teachers get additional monies it has to come from somewhere and more than likely it will be at the expense of other County employees. I don’t mean in anyway to belittle the need for teachers, happy teachers, but more and more people have been home schooling and more can do so. That in conjunction with cyber schooling can cut the need for more teachers. However, what does the public do when there is no one to run the water and sewer plants, repair and maintain roads, enforce the laws, or handle their garbage? These are services that must continue to be funded just as importantly as education.
That being said, the largest changes should come from the way the local government is run. This County set out a number of years ago buying up land for schools or under ‘program open space’ using predominantly monies from the state. This was still taxpayer money that should have been saved for times such as these. In addition all of the properties that were bought now have noone paying taxes on them; and they wonder where all of the tax revenue went. On some of these very large and expensive parcels now stand ball fields. Parks and recreation is one of the largest ongoing money pits in County government. What kind of revenue does this generate? The Board of Ed. has seen fit to build very nice facilities at the schools to accommodate most athletic programs so why are we still spending millions providing additional facilities? If this money was spent getting back to educating the childrens minds instead of fostering illusions of physical supremacy and the large payday we would be building machines that could lead the country out of its downward ‘what’s in it for me’ spiral.
If we find ourselves short of quality teachers, that means teachers are underpaid. If we are not short of quality teachers, that means teachers are not underpaid.
Substitute any other profession for teachers, and the logic remains the same…
Once more Mr. Mike Perrone, Jr., you strike the small wire-cut nail squarely on the head.
You demonstrate small head thinking to go with your small nail analogy.
Hey there,
“If we find ourselves short of quality teachers, that means teachers are underpaid. If we are not short of quality teachers, that means teachers are not underpaid.” – That is not necessarily true. There can be many reasons why there is or is not a shortage/surplus of quality teachers. Pay may or may not be a reason. Simply because quality teachers are not currently in short supply does not mean they are underpaid. Far too many factors go into this determination.
“Substitute any other profession for teachers, and the logic remains the same…” Lawyers and doctors are underpaid, yet there are lots of quality doctors and lawyers (especially lawyers, Lawyers are really underpaid. I mean, seriously, really underpaid. Like, they should get paid lots and lots more underpaid). The same can be said for many professions.
Very true. But there is no shortage of teachers in HCPS, and even though they haven’t had raises in 5 years, they are still here, still working, and in many cases are still doing all the free overtime/extra duty work they always have, including buying their own classroom supplies.
So let them! As I’ve said earlier, why give someone a raise who will work for less, and why pay someone to do what they will do for free? In fact, they should start cutting teachers salaries and benefits up to the point where people start quitting, then hire new teachers fresh out of college! New hires would cost less money than older teachers which could save a bundle!
YES, because cheap is better! Heck, I always look for the cheapest, less experienced doctor when I need medical services. When I had my heart surgery last fall, I made sure that the experienced and expensive surgeons stayed away. I wanted a young, first year surgeon to hold the knife while I had one of the most important procedures of my life. I always look for the youngest, cheapest lawyer when I need legal services. When my wife and I divorced several years ago, I didn’t want to pay for good legal representation. I wanted the cheapest first-year lawyer I could find. I didn’t want an experienced attorney who knew the pitfalls of the divorce process. Why would I? Experience is overrated. So I agree with your logic. Why would I want to pay an experienced teacher to work with my grandchildren? I want a first year teacher with no experience. Why would I want to pay for an experienced teacher who has a deep skill-set and who has experience with special education students? First year teachers are cheap and cheap is always better. While we are at it, why the heck should we pay college students to teach at all? Let’s buy all of the students computers and outsource the teaching to a third world country where we could pay the educator a nickel an hour to teach them over the internet? You are onto something! Cheaper is better! You should run for president!
Observer’s trolling. He posts conservative/free market ideas in the most snarky/sarcastic tone possible to get a rise out of people.
@Reggie…Thank you!!!!!!!!!
Reggie,
No, cheaper is NOT always better. When it comes to people who are motivated by money to improve themselves, you will get better quality with better money.
But teachers aren’t motivated by money! Just read some of the commments here by teachers who talk about how they didn’t go into teaching to get rich; they are going to keep teaching, keep sponsoring clubs and sports, and keep busting their humps for the good of the kids and society regardless of whether they are paid well or not!
And just read how so many of them are not members of the union that is fighting for their salaries and benefits. See? Even when someone fights to get them a raise they object! So really, do you think a highly dedicated teacher who works for free (“If I don’t do it, who will?”), who won’t fight back when their salary has been frozen for five years, who really doesn’t have any other career options, is going to quit teaching?
What proof do you have that there is no shortage of teachers in HCPS? Do you know that HCPS recruits in other states, some as far away as Michigan? (You should check out the districts budget for recruiting.) Also, there have been a few times where my school has needed a candidate for a teaching position and there are none in the pool that are highly recommended. We have to have a teacher in the classroom, so we end up having to take what we can get. Our demand is higher than our supply. Why aren’t we attracting the top candidates in the state?
I don’t know, Kharn. In a post above you stated:
“Electricity and natural gas have increased in price since 2007 as well. HCPS can’t turn off the electricity, or shut down the steam plant, or cut back on bus routes or stop serving lunch, so the only place to get the money is from teachers’ salaries and/or benefits.
Mr Cerveny seems to think all of those alternatives are viable courses of action. And that is why taxpayers are displeased with the HCEA’s shenanigans.”
I don’t ever recall hearing Mr. Cerveny suggest that HCPS turn off the electricity, shut down the steam plant, cut back on bus routes, or stop serving lunch, as you claim. Can tell us where you are getting the info that he “seems to think all those alternatives are viable courses of action”? Or maybe you’re the one who is trolling…!
My posts are neither snarky nor sarcastic, and I’m not sure why you would take it that way. If teachers want to work for cheap or for free, then let them! If you want to base teachers salaries strictly on supply and demand, why not? If teachers trust politicians and school officials more than their own union representation, go for it!
After all, you’re the one who also talked about how everyone is sick of HCEA’s shenanigans, even though their shenanigans haven’t gotten the teachers a raise in five years. And you were the one pointing out all that stuff about the tax base being low, how many people are un- or underemployed, etc. All I’ve done is agree with you…what’s so snarky about that?
Just because you can’t get the top candidates or someone highly recommended, that doesn’t mean your demand is higher than your supply; that just means that you aren’t competitive.
But you can’t have it both ways! You can’t offer the lowest salaries while simultaneously attracting the best people. But if you can convince the teachers they aren’t that good and that they continually need to “prove” themselves by doing more work for longer hours, then you can get them to improve themselves without having to pay them while you get free services! After all, no teacher wants to be the “bad” or “lazy” teacher!
Plus, if you can convince them that their only representation is nothing more than an additional payroll deduction, you can get them to “fire” the only people working on their behalf!
It’s simply manipulation, really. It’s all in how you manage your labor force. And of course, that’s what management is supposed to do: get the most out of their labor at the cheapest cost! Fortunately, our school administrators are among the best paid in the state so we CAN attract top management to get the “best bang for the buck” out of our teachers!
Observer:
Those courses of action come out of HCPS working within the confines of the funding provided by the County. They can’t force the county to give them more money, but they can reduce salaries, benefits, services or utility usage. Money doesn’t just appear out of thin air, it must come from somewhere.
HCEA/Cerveny’s whining is the problem, regardless of their win/loss record.
Kharn:
As I’ve said before, you are exactly right! Cerveny’s whining is the problem. His insistence that the people he represents get cost-of-living increases and step increases is nothing but whining. That was my point…it doesn’t matter if the teachers have actually received increases in the past five years, it’s just the fact that they have someone speaking on their behalf that is the problem. Fortunately, most of the teachers are able to see through this facade, and are dropping out of the union in droves! Hopefully enough teachers will drop out and there will be no more HCEA. Then we can get back to letting the elected officials and school officials make decisions that are in the best interest of teachers and students without the interference from a third party that purports to represent teachers.
@observer – You assume much to suggest that Harford Co schools has top notch administrators or that they are the best paid in the state. The same goes for administrators as it does for teachers. You get what you pay for and we will not really see the negative impact this situation is and will continue to have on our children until they get into their later school years.
Cut teacher salaries until they quit?! Do you really think these statements through before you post them? There is a very strong correlation between teacher experience and student achievement. Where do you find the highest percentage of new teachers? In the lowest performing schools. And where do you find the greatest highest rate of teacher turnover? Again, in the lowest performing schools. If we follow your logic NO ONE in their right mind would want to become a teacher or at least anyone I would want teaching my children.
Are you suggesting that teachers are motivated by salaries? Because as many people have pointed out here (even some who are teachers) no one goes into teaching to become rich. And teachers have proven time and time again that they will work for free. We have frozen salaries and benefits for five years now, and all it has resulted in is greater mistrust of HCEA, greater trust of the people who refuse to fund the increases, and no lack of increased effort on the part of the teachers.
So yes, I believe that teachers will keep working hard regardless of how low you pay them. They’ve proven it time and time again. They won’t “take it out on the kids” because they didn’t “go into teaching to get rich”.
And as someone else pointed out, once they are in the system X number of years, it is difficult to jump from one county to another. So they are stuck regardless of how much you freeze their salaries.
It’s all about getting the “best band for the buck”, something that Harford County has long been proud of. They’ve underpaid their teachers for years while having among the best performing schools. So why pay more when you can pay less?
Teachers don’t expect to get rich but they do expect a reasonable middle class income that is commensurate with the the level of education required for the job. You truly do have a cynical view on the value of people.
I don’t think it is cynical at all. I think it is completely reflective of what is actually happening.
Look, teachers haven’t had a raise in five years. So what do they do about it? They keep working just as hard. They keep working overtime for free. They quit their representative union. They accept being underpaid. And they think that by doing all these things, this is somehow going to emotionally move their elected officials and school bosses to somehow become benevolent.
Well, life doesn’t really work that way, does it? If someone will work for cheap or for free, then that’s what everyone else is going to let them do! No one is going to voluntarily give the teachers a raise for ANY reason, especially not when they will work just as hard without it.
Teachers are extremely naive. They think that by busting their humps someone will just hand them some additional cash. They justify their being underpaid by saying “well, we didn’t expect to become rich”. They justify working for free by saying “well, it’s for the kids”. And everyone knows they can manipulate the teachers into working more for less just by using the above lines. Then the teachers slam the only agent working on their behalf, and trust the people who are working against them and manipulating them.
So they deserve what they get, which has been NOTHING for the past five years, and it will continue to be nothing as long as they are willing to tolerate it. That’s why I propose even cutting salaries and benefits, because it can be done with NO impact on education. The teachers will just work harder to prove their worth or because they don’t want to “take it out on the kids”.
Ahh, Paul… that’s just it: “Far too many factors go into this determination.” But there is no determination. It’s all relative. If someone just as good as you is willing to do your job for less, you’re overpaid. If you quit and nobody is willing to take your place, you were underpaid.
I’ve heard a lot of talk by teachers about leaving Harford County over the past several years. And I hope the Board of Ed is on top of what is really going on with our applicant pool. If we appear to be trending toward a smaller pool, then we need to take that seriously and find ways to pay teachers more. If we aren’t trending toward a smaller pool, that means that there are enough teachers out there who are satisfied with the status quo.
I’m not talking about pay raises per se… just pay in general. And plain old supply and demand…
I teach at a high school, and here is what I don’t get if times are so tough, why do all of my students have iphones, and nicer cars then the teachers? They don’t certainly seem to be having hard times?
Watch what you wish for Harford County, soon many of the good quality teachers you talk about will leave, and the word is out Harford County is losing the best teaching candidates to other counties. So if you want the 3rd best candidates (cecil and balt. co will get 1 and 2) keep up the good work.
Does anyone know how much it costs in other counties to be a member of the Teacher Union?
TABCO is $637.20
CCCTA is about $600 as best as I can find.
NFFE is $30/yr
SPEEA is $38.57/yr
UAW is 2 hours pay per month worked
Dues are highly variable, but on average, white collar unions have much lower rates than blue collar unions. The major exception being teachers’ unions…
Anyone know where the trash men are complaining on this site? Oh yeah, it doesn’t exist.
Where is the article all about the trash men and their salaries? There is one a week about HCPS or teachers on this site. Where are all the stay at home moms posting & complaining about the trashmen? What parents are calling and emailing about their garbage not getting picked up first…but that their neighbors trash is…and because of that, their trash is getting their feelings hurt? Show me an article all about the trashmen and their careers first…
I am sure the trash man didn’t have the expense of earning a Masters Degree just to keep his job. I’m also sure his work day is done when he gets off the truck and the end of his shift. Come to think of it maybe the trash man made a better career choice. You seem to value the trash man more than teachers.
I do value teachers, just tired of those of you that are never happy and will never have enough.
“Maryland spends on public education like a Saudi prince in Tiffany’s.
According to an analysis of data from the Annual Survey of State Government Finances from the U.S. Census Bureau, all education spending accounted for 47 percent of Maryland’s total revenue in 2009, the most recent year available. Health spending, which is always cited as the monster in the state budget, ate 9 percent of total revenue in 2009. By comparison, public education represented 26 percent of total revenue in 2000.”
From the baltimore sun. How much more do you need?
Maybe I’m not the one who needs a clue.
If you like having one of the best school systems in the country, want your children and grandchildren to have a leg up in the ever tougher job market of the global economy, an opportunity to have a decent standard of living you have to finance it. That includes having quality facilities, adequate teaching resources such as technology and supplies, and top notch professionals in the classroom to deliver instruction. If you want something less for the kids, which also translates into future prosperity for all of us in this country, than maintain the current course of action. Before long we can be on par with Mississippi.
Cerveny: “Why is the Board of Education Fighting this Losing Legal Battle – Throwing Away Good Taxpayer Dollars by Doing So?”
http://www.daggerpress.com/2012/05/15/cerveny-why-is-the-board-of-education-fighting-this-losing-legal-battle-%e2%80%93-throwing-away-good-taxpayer-dollars-by-doing-so/
The problem is so simple that it’s almost absurd. There is plenty of money to honor the teachers’ contracts without raising taxes. The issue? That money is being wasted all over the place in central and school-based administration. There are literally hundreds of positions across the county that are 100% unnecessary (Instructional Facilitators, three AP’s at schools with relatively low discipline problems, county curriculum specialists and their support staff, literally every one of the new positions created through the Race to the Top money–which only pays for their salaries for the first year). All of those positions make just under to well over 100k dollars per year. To do jobs that don’t need doing/are already being done better by department chairs and the like.
Beyond wasteful administrative staffing, you’ve got this absurd notion that every school in the county has to look like a billion-dollar project. An atrium at North Harford? Yeah, because nature is tough to come by in Pylesville, hahaha. How much extra money was spent on that nonsense? High end turf fields at half the schools in the county? For what? They lead to more injuries and they are way too expensive.
The problem is that the people in administration sucking up those wasted dollars are the PEOPLE WHO DECIDE WHERE THE MONEY GOES. Do you honestly think they will cut themselves when they can just stiff the teachers? The politicians count on those glitzy new schools as something they can point to and say “look at what I did!” Just look at Craig’s new 60 million dollar pet project.
The union is toothless. It’s still worth joining just for the workplace protections (I’ve seen way too many good teachers in HCPS targeted for enforcing classroom discipline and refusing to inflate grades). When it comes to the financials, though, HCEA can’t do a thing. They know it and the county knows it.
All of this ultimately leads to the biggest problem, though: HCPS teachers, I feel for you. I really do. I was one of you, and I know how talented and hard-working you are. That said, it’s been five years. If you are still in this county after five years of disrespect and the total refusal to honor your contract, then at some point it’s on you. Things aren’t going to change. The people in charge aren’t going to wake up and start making the intelligent decisions (ie-cutting the copious fat in the budget). There are plenty of school systems in and out of Maryland where you will see your contract honored and get the respect you deserve. It’s not because those communities are better–I loved my time in Harford County. It’s not because they spend more money than HCPS, either. They just waste less money on unimportant things.
I got out two years into this nonsense (I’ve been working in a small school system in New York state, and loving it). For those of you still in the mire, I’d recommend that you do some serious soul-searching. It’s pretty evident now after five years that things aren’t going to change. If you want respect and a contract that will be honored–leave (HCPS is already having trouble attracting top graduates. The county is going to be as bad as PG County pretty soon, the way things are going). If not, at some point it has to be on your own head for staying.
You are right on about central office administration. If 75% of the central office administration was abducted by aliens today, my school would run as-is just fine for years to come. I have yet to see any central office personnel come spend any quality time visiting classrooms, meeting with teachers, or truly getting a sense of how things are going. How do they make decisions about schools that they have no clue about? They are totally out of touch. Lots of wasted tax dollars that should be going directly to those that make it happen: school leadership, teachers and students.
Cerveny: “I am Urging You, Pleading with You, to Join HCEA in the Fight for Adequate Funding of Our Schools and Your Salaries” Our members are dropping like flies and I am in danger of losing my $120,000.00 a year job. Help, please I beg give me your money, so that I can give it to David Craig’s campaign fund.
I truly believe that Maryland’s jump into Race to the Top money will be harmful to our children and teachers in the end run. Since 50% of teacher evaluations will be tied to student test scores anyone who thinks school won’t turn into being all about the test is kidding themselves. Our children will be encouraged to be good test takers but not creative thinkers. But there will be an even greater paperwork/data collection burden on the teachers. I’ve looked over some of the upcoming new responsibilities I will have to meet the requirements for meeting the new evaluations. I’m assuming that colleges in our state are teaching their students what Race to the Top will require of them once they have a job. As a new teacher aware of that workload, why would I apply to a county that ‘loves to hate it’s teachers’ as much as Harford County and backs it up by saying we don’t deserve to be paid for our education and commitment? I would strongly suggest that if you’re an educated parent that you home school your children because the quality of teachers in our county will most definitely be on the wane as more of the experienced teachers retire.
As for leaving if I’m not happy? I’ve been teaching more than 15 years so I can’t ‘jump’ to another county for more pay. Unlike the private sector where you can go from job to job looking for one that offers a higher salary, there are caps on teachers salaries to prevent counties from stealing good teachers from each other, most are around 7-10 years experience. So if I apply to Baltimore County I can only be paid at I believe step 9, regardless of my years of experience. That’s one of the reasons experienced teachers stay-it would be a financial hit to leave. So telling teachers to go work somewhere else? Financially, we can’t if we’ve been teaching over 10 years.
I don’t teach in the route 40 corridor and my assumption is that it’s not the case there…but I can’t begin to list all the students that have missed a week of school for cruises and family vacations out of the country. I’m not seeing a recession in my part of the county! These kids drive better cars than me, have iphones that I’m constantly having to send to the office as they’re texting in class, dress better than me and try to treat me the way they see their parents treat teachers. Harford County loves to hate it’s teachers-you reap what you sow.
No one goes into teaching to become rich.
Those $450k houses in Bel Air are being sold to people that can afford them, and their kids have to go to school somewhere. If you can afford a $3k/mo mortgage, you’re not dressing your kid with clothes from Kmart.
My wife is a teacher stuck on step 9. She called BCPS and CCPS human resources office in March and asked about transfering. They both told her they would place her on step 14, the number of years she will have been teaching next year. The two things she will lose are that she can only take the equivelent of 120 days of sick leave with her and she will have to earn tenure over a 3 year process again. The jump on their payscales for her will give her a raise of 10-12 K. She put in applications for both counties and has interviewed her accepting a BCPS job will depend on the school she is placed at. She does not want to drive to the Southern portions or even Owings Mills simply because of the commute but if she ended up in the North East or Hereford she would probably leave! To be fair they are mainly only looking for Math, Science and Special ed teachers, all areas that are of critical need.
Which again shows that the supply of teachers still outweighs the demand, except in those few areas you mentioned.
@Observer –
You’re damnable! You’re teaching these teachers basic economics.
They never though that supply and demand in the real world applied to them. You have shown them that they are a commodity, oh the horrors, how can you dare suggest that these fine human beings are replaceable with an inexhaustible supply of fine young smart fresh replacements?
I wish Mrs. Cdev the best in her new teaching endeavor in Baltimore County.
If the expense and challenge of the commute becomes overwhelming please don’t hesitate to move your family to Baltimore County. While folks may miss you and your children no one will miss Mr. Cdev.
CDEV,
Something doesn’t add up here.
Your wife who is currently on step 9 in HCPS hasn’t receive a step in 3 years. Therefore she should be on step 12 now and step 13 next year. Yet BCPS offered to place her on step 14?
Let’s assume that you got the steps right and assume your wife has a masters. Step 9 in HCPS is $55,330 while step 14 in BCPS is $62,695 which is a difference of $7,000. Where do you get $10,000 to $12,000 increase?
Now if your wife takes health benefits have you factored in the significant difference in premiums and plan designs? BCPS has reduced their healthcare plan significantly and are moving increase premiums to an 80/20 split to pay for the step increase.
Did they tell your wife that she cannot receive the full health benefit unless she spends 30 years in BCPS?
Now for the kicker, is your wife aware that BCPS traded teacher positions and larger class sizes to fund last year’s step? Check out this week’s Sun article.
Math was never Cdev’s forte.
BCPS will honor her 38 extra credits to put her on MA+36 which they have even though some where done before her masters. HCPS will only place you there if ALL of them where done after your masters and where part of a very specific plan filed before the start of that plan. Cecil is very similar!
She is aware of the health benefits but that is where my generous private benefits are now better bang for our buck. Additionally the benefits at retirement are not an issue because
1) HCPS pays little to none of retire benfits and
2) based on the rule of 90 for pension she is going to have to teach for about 37 years anyway which will put her at the medicare point in her benefits!
3) the classroom size sacrifice is at the high school level and will not apply to schools that are struggling which is what you get in the Middle River, Essex, Dundalk area!
CDEV – At 30 years HCPS pays 90% of the health benefit for retirees.
Yep, I left two years ago and am making six thousand dollars more!
The situation with HCEA membership is directly caused by HCEA leadership blunders so the only solution is that the HCEA must have a change in leadership in order to reverse the trend of losing members. When the person at the top becomes the issue rather than the economic plight of teachers then there is only one solution. Leadership change.
The other issue here is that the HCEA, MSTA, et al are continuing to support O’Malley and his cronies who have flipped them the bird in a gesture of ‘appreciation’ by transferring the funding responsibility for teacher pension to the counties while keeping the money for themselves. Yet the HCEA and MSTA continue to support them. Teachers are not dumb people and are finally getting the message that the political support which the union is buying with the dues paid by the teachers is a really bad bargain. This is true especially in Harford where the population generally – and teachers are a fair representation of the population politically – is conservative but the HCEA is supporting the Dem/Libs with teacher union dues and getting less than nothing in return.
I fully support those who pursue education as a career. No matter what people think, it cannot be easy to teach room full of other people’s children, especially in this age of “You can’t tell me what to do” or the helicopter parent.
I can see both sides here. There are truly teachers in classrooms that don’t deserve a single dime for a raise. They arrive with the kids and leave with them as well. They “go through the motions” and collect a paycheck. And you can’t get rid of them…the HCEA will protect them to the end.
However, there some teachers that do go above and beyond the call of duty. They come in early and/or stay late. They give that “extra mile” to their students. My neighbor’s daughter stayed after school several afternoons two weeks ago in order to prepare for the AP Exam. This teacher stayed and worked with the kids pro-bono on his own time. Teachers like this truly make a difference. These teachers deserve raises and steps.
The problem is how do you define who gets what? I do not believe in merit pay. Merit pay punishes those who teach in difficult and low-income schools.
I wish there was an easy alternative to reward those who really do a great job. Ask any parent of a school-age child and they can tell you who the great teachers are who deserve raises and which teachers deserve to stay where they are financially.
Before the pro-teacher posters bash me, go back and re-read all of my posts. I am pro-teacher. I can see, however, why some people are not.
YOu all sound like a bunch of cry baby Marxists. Quit your complaining and go march on the school or something.
I don’t know who this “Observer” is who has appropriated my handle on this web site and used it in this thread; it’s obvious the person is merely a shill for the union. So we’ll pass on that bit of larceny for the moment. I would remind you, dear reader, that even that much-heralded liberal icon John F. Kennedy knew that if you lower the tax rate, you increase tax revenues. How is that possible, the leftists in the stands ask? Simple: If you lower the tax rate, you encourage productivity. If productivity increases, people make more money. More money times lower tax rate equals more tax revenues. But people aren’t making any money these days. I haven’t had a steady job since October 2010, despite a diligent, daily search. I’ve been substituting in the public school system to try to make ends meet. You take my seriously lowered income and tax the living hell out of it, guess what? Soon I won’t even be able to afford to go to work because I won’t have enough money to put gas in the car or make repairs on it or pay the increased fees for registration and licenses. How much tax revenue will the state get out of me when my income drops to zero, huh? How long will it be before I have to live in that car because I can’t keep up the rent payments? The economic ignorance of unionistas is beyond the pale.
It’s called the “Laffer Curve” in economics. But it doesn’t simply propose that lower taxes create more of a tax base; it proposes that there is a point where a higher tax rate will begin to erode the tax base. So ideally, what needs to be found (at least theoretically) is the point where the tax rate creates maximum base without going over. That’s why it’s a complete curve starting at a zero point, arching, then going back to a zero point. Even then, given our progressive tax system, cutting taxes for the highest earners would mean greater amount of revenue than cutting taxes for low earners, which is certainly not an ideal situation.
Sorry about taking your handle. I wasn’t aware that there was another “Observer”. I’ll find another. You can have yours back.
BTW…I’m not a teacher, am not in the teachers union, and am therefore not a “shill” for the union. But I am glad to see many teachers dropping out of it. Less union membership means lowered ability for the union to negotiate on their behalf, which means fewer pay increases. And THAT my friend, will certainly keep all of our taxes lower! I wish you the best in finding work.
I read that “Government is where money goes to die, killing the economy along the way.”
When people say that teachers should “work to rule”, exactly how many days per year and how many hours per day is that?
190 Days 7.5 hrs/day. Let me save you the trouble of doin the figurin.
That would mean a new teacher would be being paid $28.89/hr. if they can actually get their job done. A twelfth year teacher like myself, on step eight with a masters+30, would be making $40.01/hour.
That’s why everyone is so upset.
Teachers actually work an average 10-12 hours a day and some weekends. That means that new teachers, who usually work at least 12 hours a day, are working for $18 and hour. Teachers like myself are working for $25 an hour. I often put in more than 12 hours and work on weekends. I am sorry for those who don’t make that much but that is not professional pay. Don’t be mistaken. We don’t want more than everyone else. We want worker, including the county workers, sheriffs, firemen, etc. to make what they deserve.
Ryan,
Teaching is a salaried position, not hourly. You are paid to accomplish the work at an acceptable quality level, regardless of how many hours it takes you.
Hey Kharn,
Teachers are actually under contract to work a certain amount of hours per day and year.
The quality of their work is an entirely different matter.
Anyways, have a nice day.
The contract’s 7.5 hours are the minimum time present at the school, additional hours are regularly required to fulfill the duties of the position (grading, planning, etc) and are thus covered by the total compensation provided by the salaried pay.
Hey Kharn,
While I do not have a copy of a teacher contract in front of me, a typical contract will state a specific start time and end time; either by stating the time or by stating something along the lines of X minutes prior to the time students are admitted to the building. An example of the time restraints on a teacher contract is:
“2.4 Duty Hours
2.4.1 The duty day for teachers shall be eight hours
The normal hourly duty day for eight hour teachers shall be followed during pre-planning, post-planning and teacher workday. On the fall Professional Study Day and conference nights, the length of day for eight hour teachers shall be six hours, including one hour for lunch.”
There would, of course, be further restrictions/expectations, such as lunch and other breaks, extra-curricular activity coverage (depending on school), etc. However, it is doubtful that there would be a strict minimum requirement, as you stated. If you have proof of that, I would love to see the specific wording of it.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul Mc:
Your quote is exactly what I am talking about. Duty hours are the minimum of when workers are required to be present, even for salaried employees. Once the end of duty hours have been reached, hourly employees receive overtime while salaried employees must keep working until the standard (lessons planned, papers graded in a timely fashion, IEPs updated, etc) is accomplished with no additional compensation.
Hey Kharn,
“Your quote is exactly what I am talking about. Duty hours are the minimum of when workers are required to be present, even for salaried employees. Once the end of duty hours have been reached, hourly employees receive overtime while salaried employees must keep working until the standard (lessons planned, papers graded in a timely fashion, IEPs updated, etc) is accomplished with no additional compensation.” – That is not what the contract states. A typical salaried employee would have a verbal or written contract that would state, or imply, that the worker is required to have a minimum amount of hours, and then be obligated to stay to complete the job duties. However, with the teacher contract, it is not specified, implied, nor required (again, I do not have a contract in front of me to verify this) that a teacher is under a contractual obligation to stay and complete any duty not completed during their scheduled work day. If there is a clause in the contract that requires this, I would like to see it (not saying this to be a smarta$$, I would actually like to see the negotiated agreement).
Each and every person that works is contracted to fulfill certain expectations, based on what is in the contract. Some are expected to stay and complete the job no matter the hours, others, like teachers, are only required to stay a certain amount of hours.
Lawyers, for example, depending on where they work, may have a requirement of 2000 billable hours per year; they may also have bonuses contracted if they meet 2250 or 2500 billable hours per year.
Anyways, have a nice day.
The negotiated agreement is available online at the HCPS website under human resources — employee info, forms and benefit guides.
Hey all,
Thank you, John. I just glanced over it. Article VIII states the requirements for teachers; 190 days, 37.5 hours per week are required. Additional time may be required for meetings, to chaperone events, or to supervise school activities and for PTA meetings.
@Kharn, it does not that there is anything in the contract requiring teachers to “keep working until the standard (lessons planned, papers graded in a timely fashion, IEPs updated, etc) is accomplished with no additional compensation.”
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul Mc:
The agreement also does not state that teachers must wear clothes, be sober or refrain from sleeping with students. Does their absence from the agreement mean following those customary practices is not required of HCPS teachers?
Hey Kharn,
“The agreement also does not state that teachers must wear clothes, be sober or refrain from sleeping with students. Does their absence from the agreement mean following those customary practices is not required of HCPS teachers?” – All these items are irrelevant. They are illegal activities. Furthermore, there is typically a morals clause in most contracts, which I believe the teachers have to sign.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Paul – “A typical salaried employee would have a verbal or written contract that would state, or imply, that the worker is required to have a minimum amount of hours, and then be obligated to stay to complete the job duties.”
Your “typical” salaried employee does not have a union or contract as MD is an at will employment state. By common definition, a salaried employee works to the job not the clock. Hourly employees work to the clock. Therefore, the salaried employee’s job completion is the standard not the hours worked. Welcome to the real world.
Hey JJ,
“Your “typical” salaried employee does not have a union or contract” – Any employee, being salaried or hourly, is under contract.
“as MD is an at will employment state.” – Yes, however, there are exceptions to this, such as if there is a written contract that adjusts or amends the at will status.
“By common definition, a salaried employee works to the job not the clock.” – Yes and no, depending on the agreed upon clauses in the contract. Salaried – exempt employees do get paid overtime. Salaried, non-exempt do not. Again, however, it would be contract specific. A contract may or may not require a person stay until completion of job, no matter what. Most salaried positions typically have between a 40 and 50 hour work week, with contract specific requirements for completion of tasks; such as working a few extra long days when a project deadline is nearing.
“Hourly employees work to the clock.” – Yep.
“Therefore, the salaried employee’s job completion is the standard not the hours worked.” – Again, contract specific.
“Welcome to the real world.” – I live and work in the real world.
Anyways, have a nice day.
Much as JJ has stated, I have worked for several corporations in various industries in the real world, all as a salaried worker, and have never signed a contract of any type or form. I have never received overtime pay, probably because there is no “overtime” – only additional time needed to get the job done.
I have several options if I have a problem with the extra hours – I could either ask my boss for a raise, request addtional help, or look for another job. That’s how the system traditionally works, and it does work.
Hey Phil,
“Much as JJ has stated, I have worked for several corporations in various industries in the real world, all as a salaried worker, and have never signed a contract of any type or form.” – But you were always under contract. A contract is typically oral. Any contract has certain elements which must be met in order to be lawful. All employment contracts meet these: Offer, acceptance, mutual assent, and consideration. The employer agrees to hire you. You agree to work for them. There is an agreed upon pay for an agreed upon work. Both parties agree to these terms. Though you may not have certain conditions in your employment contract does not mean others will not have certain conditions in theirs. I know in my employment contract, I have certain conditions most others do not. There are about 3.2 million public school teachers in the US; most of which utilize the union negotiated agreement salary scale (varying depending on state/district). So, what is typical? For teachers, what they have is typical for them. There are some aspects of the teacher’s contract that I would love, however, there are numerous aspects of the contract I would despise.
“I have never received overtime pay, probably because there is no “overtime” – only additional time needed to get the job done.” – That is because it was not in your contract.
“I have several options if I have a problem with the extra hours – I could either ask my boss for a raise, request addtional help, or look for another job.” – Your first two options are renegotiating your contract and the third is terminating it. There are other options as well.
“That’s how the system traditionally works, and it does work.” – There are many ways for many systems to work. Your example is one. Teachers are another. Lawyers are another.
Anyways, have a nice day.
But there it is again, Ryan. If you are willing to work for less, what incentive does anyone have to give you more? All your hard work is greatly appreciated, all the extra time you give to make sure the job is done well. But like most teachers in HCPS, you’ll do that regardless of what the county pays you.
So again…why pay more when you can pay less and get the same product? HCPS schools, by all measures and comparisons with other counties, are really good schools while being among the lowest paid. Thank you teachers for continuing to give our kids a high quality education at the lowest possible price. Keep up the good work!
It is very clear to me that education is not valued in Harford county as it is in other districts in Maryland , like Frederick and Montgomery, which is shameful for its citizens, hurts our youth, and ultimately affects the future growth of this “great place” which you claim it to be.
WOW! Frederick? They pay teachers less than Harford does. They haven’t had a step in three years either. Frederick starts at $40,706 while Harford starts at $41,171.
Hey Interested,
The median salary for teachers in Frederick County, for elementary, middle, and high schools are 72K, 78K, and 64K respectively. The average salaries are 72K, 78K, and 67K.
The median salary for teachers in Harford County, for elementary, middle and high schools are 56K, 57K, and 59K respectively. The average salaries are 57K, 59K, and 61K.
It actually appears that teachers in Frederick County get paid roughly 20% more.
The numbers are taken from teachersalaryinfo.com
Anyways, have a nice day.
The problem with that is Fredrick COunty has a more aged workforce thus skewing that data. The best thing to do when making comparisons is to look for their salary scale. They differ greatly. In Baltimore County they spread theirs out to 30 years. In Harford we front load ours and stop at 15 years!
Hey all,
If you look below, I posted more salary information about Harford County, including the stats about where Harford County ranks in teacher pay for various steps/degree positions.
Anyways, have a nice day.
I agree with CDEV. The data you use is more of a broad look at the demographics of the teaching force than salary comparison.
Thank you Paul! Should we also look at Montgomery and Howard counties? I know for a fact education is extremely valued in those two counties as well. I believe the pay scale is higher in Anne arundel as well!
Education is highly valued in Harford County as well. In fact, it’s one of the best values in Maryland. Our schools are among the best in the state while our teacher salaries are among the lowest.
Hey All,
Here is some more salary information; this is taken from marylandpublicschools.org :
Of the 24 districts in Maryland, Harford County teachers w/:
Bachelor’s Degree, Step 1, minimum salary – 4th lowest (Carroll, Dorchester, and Frederick are lower)
Bachelor’s w/ SPC, maximum salary – Harford County 9th highest
Advanced Prof. Cert., maximum salary – 10th lowest
Master’s Degree, maximum salary – 10th lowest
Master’s w/ APC maximum salary – 9th lowest
Master’s + 30 years, maximum salary – 13th lowest
Doctorate, maximum salary – 11th lowest
Master’s at 10 years (based on salary scale) – 9th highest salary
Master’s at 15 years – 9th highest salary
Master’s at 20 years – 16th highest
Master’s at 25 years – 19th highest
I do not know which schools have or have not followed their salary schedules; which teachers have received raises and are getting paid at their negotiated salary.
Anyways, have a nice day.