I am writing to express my opposition to the proposed Walmart relocation project. This project is ill-conceived for any number of reasons.
As a longtime resident of the Joppatowne community, I can tell you first hand how it was when we lost our SuperFresh and Kmart. Moving the Walmart further away from Joppatowne and Edgewood would be a shame. These communities are arguably the target demographic for a Walmart. Why would they move further away.
I now reside in Bel Air south and have so for the past six years. Both routes 24 and 924 are already overburdened on an average day. During the Christmas Holidays, these roads can become down right impassable. The County administration should hire an outside consultant to study the roads and determine if they are overburdened or would be by a new Walmart.
Additionally, it is my understanding the County Council allowed this property to be rezoned a few years ago. I would like to know if they will rezone it back to its previous zoning and if not, why?
The community has overwhelming come out in opposition of this development. Walmart should act as a good corporate citizen and neighbor and redevelop their current location as opposed to move.
Brian Stover
Bel Air, Maryland
Makes you wonder who let Wal-Mart, Target and all of the other stores in that tight little corner of Abingdon. Traffic is bad. There are too many stores in such a small area. Someone was not thinking (wonder who)maybe the same people that OK’d the building in this area. Also did anyone ever think why Wal-Mart wants to get out of that location. I use to shop in Edgewood, but most of the store have moved out. With gangs and shootings. I don’t even go to Mars shopping center anymore. What we really need is a few more gas stations, banks, drug stores and convience stores, since we don’t have very many.
Rachel,
You said “Someone was not thinking (wonder who)maybe the same people that OK’d the building in this area.” Please allow me to enlighten you as to the people who weren’t thinking. You. Me. Lots of people who allow zoning changes to be made because we think we are too busy to consider them and express our opinion on them when they are being done. So now you don’t have to wonder who wasn’t thinking anymore. It was all of us and that includes you.
DID YOU JUST MOVE HERE? THAT TIGHT LITTLE CORNER WAS A SPECKLE OF MUSTARD 20 YEARS AGO COMPARED TO WHAT PRIVATE ENTITIES HAVE MOVED IN.
BTW I LIKE MUSTERD ON MY HOTDAWGS, YEEEAHHHHH BOYEE.
I will miss Wal Mart on Constant Friendship Blvd. What a convenience! The employees treat you extremely great at store 2009/Abingdon!!!!!! Everybody seems to be complaining, but let’s see how many of those protesters eventually shop the new Wal Mart store. No one wants a store in their neighborhood, but they need to go somewhere. How many of you complained about Sonics and all the rest of the stores in the area including Festival?
I find your comment about Joppatown/Edgewood being a “targeted demographic” insulting. Obviously, Wal-Mart thinks it has a good customer base in Bel Air.
Brian, It’s ashame Walmart didn’t consult you before they invested all that money into the property. I’m sure you have all the answers. Back in the 80″s there was a plan to build a regional shopping mall where the BJ’s, Target, Walmart and Lowes are located. The plan would have had direct access from I95. The citizens of Harford County didn’t want that and petitioned against it. Now you see what they accomplished.
Keep the zoning as it is and you’ll get Walmart or another big-box.
Change it back to residential and you’ll get Section 8 under the guise of “mixed income” housing.
I’d rather have the big-box store. At least then most of the criminals won’t have a reason to wander your development at odd hours and can be encouraged to move along.
On a side note, when I lived in Joppatowne, I shopped in White Marsh for everything. Getting to Bel Air was annoying enough to not be worth it.
For those opposed, it is very worthwhile to consider the alternatives, IF Walmart were to be stopped. I think most likely it would still be retail (same zoning) and it would be other retailers. The important point is that just about any other retailer or any other type/size of store would draw far less traffic and be less of a burden on the community. Not many companies are running out to build 186,000 sq foot stores. But you definitely have to be careful what you wish for at times, as referenced above in Constant Friendship.
If it were residential, it’s not an ideal space for large single family homes, so it would probably end up higher density apartments or townhomes.
That turn of events would likely have nothing to do with “section 8”, because there are already “section 8” home rentals all over the county. People just don’t realize it.
*I used quotations because the term is thrown around very casually by most people who have no idea that there are many different types of subsidized housing programs.
In what communist world is it ok for the government to step in and tell a private business that they shouldn’t develop in a location because the citizens do not want them to? I am not a fan of the traffic problems and people it might attract but in no way do I feel as though I or anyone else should have the right to tell any business or any person with the cash for that matter that they are not allowed to purchase a plot of land and do as they wish with it.
Nobody has said that. Nobody that matters anyway. Pay attention.
clearly you aren’t paying attention, look at past articles about this move and see the uproar from the citizens. Look at how most ask the government to step in and forbid these actions. I am paying attention…
I suggest you watch the video of the County Council meeting from last night where a video was shown of the current traffic issues in the area. Adding 50% more traffic is going to create gridlock and more safety issues. Opening up a short stretch to 5 lanes across will have traffic bottlenecked in both directions to the site. Even Boulevard which already has the infrastructure to handle the load did not get a light on to 924. They have only right turn in/out access.
The traffic is not my concern, my concern is with the people on this message board and in this country for that matter that would like government to over step its boundaries and prevent private businesses from buying a pacel of land and opening their business on it. How would these same people like that same government to come to their property and tell them they could not have a shed? The traffic is a totally different animal.
County government will not do anything it legally can’t do, no matter how many people ask them to do it.
Like I said, nobody that matters has said it. The public can whine and wish all they want, but that isn’t going to change anything.
If County government is able to stop the development it will be for perfectly legitimate and legal reasons– the courts will see to that.
I don’t blame the Walmart for wanting to move out of it’s current location. Have you ever gotten stuck back there when there is an accident at that intersection? I have. Stuck back there for 2 hrs without another way to get out….that was brilliant planning…let’s hope there’s never a fire in any of those businesses. Also, the Walmart cannot add a grocery to that store due to existing ordinances. Now I’m not on the side of Walmart, honestly, Fallston has a grocery and so does Aberdeen. They are both no more than 10 minutes away from the Abingdon store, so why do they have to add one? Either way somebody’s going to lose.
I stopped at the Fallston Wal-Mart this past Friday. The parking lot was almost full and the store was jammed with people. A Wal-Mart only 10 minutes away would certainly relieve some of the congestion at the Fallston store. I also stopped at Wegmans this past Friday, it too was jammed with people.
If you think it’s 10 minutes away you have no idea where this site is and how it will be accessed. You will be lucky to get though one or two intersections in 10 minutes now without the store.
What I’m thinking is, if I live in Bel Air, I will go to a Wal-Mart in Bel Air rather than driving to one in Fallston. It’s the same reason I would use the Home Depot in Bel Air rather than driving to the one in Aberdeen.
The problem for Walmart is that offering a reduced selection at Abingdon causes people to either shop at the Target Greatland next door, or go to Aberdeen or Fallston for the other Super Walmarts. Other consumers will choose to patronize a traditional grocery store instead of driving to Aberdeen or Fallston. That results in lost sales, which means less profit.
I thought the same thing when I read this letter. How could traffic at the new location possibly be any worse than where it is now?
Forget the inability to have a grocery store (BTW – that is a big draw). Walmart will do more business just because people can get in and out.
We stopped shopping at the Abingdon Walmart years ago for just that reason. We won’t even go near that area during the Christmas season.
(see other comment on the grocery restriction, which is false)
Regarding traffic, here are some numbers for you.
Almost 60,000 cars a day go through the Route 24 intersection next to the current location, while only 40,000 go through the intersections of Plumtree and Bel Air South. If you drive through these two areas at the same time of day, you can easily see the difference in how the traffic flows. It is VASTLY easier to get through Tollgate/Emmorton/Constant Friendship than it is to get through Bel Air South/Plumtree/Emmorton. Virtually all traffic at the current site will get through the lights after waiting, where at the future site you might have to sit through a light 2 or 3 times. The reasons is because one has been upgraded and can handle the traffic is has, and one hasn’t.
Then Walmart estimates an extra 10,000 cars a day for their store, which is at least 25%, maybe 50% more than is already there. With the proposed upgrades, it could be about the same, but it might also be worse. Because that’s not accounting for holidays, construction, and accidents.
There’s no net gain for either community here. Just net profit for Walmart.
Nice points, and refreshing to see someone back their point with data, so good job.
That said, not all intersections are created equal. Certainly the intersection at Carrs Mill Road & 152 is not as efficient as the one at Belair Road & 24.
The improvements made at 24 & Constant Friendship were designed to bypass the intersection. It has worked, and worked well. The problem is that the intersection itself is now very inefficient and quite confusing especially for those unfamiliar with it. This is due to the stacking of multiple lights and turn lanes.
As a result, the intersection itself can actually handle less traffic than it could before, even though the “bypass” (for lack of a better term) has allowed huge improvements in overall traffic flow.
As for the grocery store, Walmart accounts for more than 50% of grocery sales in 29 metro markets. Additionally, according its own annual reports, grocery sales accounted for 55% of it’s US sales last year.
So, yes, it is a big draw. It’s a very big draw.
That’s not even in debate, grocery is a major draw. The product inherently guarantees return customers. It’s a gold mine for a store like Walmart, which is why they have rolled it out.
But that’s also exactly the point. It draws more trafic. And their plan would draw more traffic to a place that already isn’t suited to the traffic it has– as opposed to where they are now, which has been recently improved at public expense.
What’s more, I go back to the issue of their submitted traffic study. They are being allowed to use a standard metric for a “free standing discount store”, which is 4.6 untis when calculating traffic volume.
However, in the same set of standards a “grocery store” uses a metric of 10 units.
So how in the world does a store that is really a discount store AND a grocery store in the same building allowed to use the smaller metric for theis traffic study?
It’s a SHAM, and we’ll pay for it, whether you like Walmart or hate it.
This is misinformation.
Walmart and county officials have acknowledged that the restriction on groceries at the current site is not an obstacle to redeveloping the current store with a full line of groceries.
The only obstacle to that now is Walmart just doesn’t want to, despite community opposition from almost all corners.
If the community wants to oppose then they should do so by not shopping there when it opens. Other than that they need to shut it and get out of the way
Where was the support for the residents of Joppa when we wanted to stop a waste transfer station being put in our community? The County Council turned their backs on us but now they and the County Executive are willing to change the rules to stop a Wal-Mart in Bel Air. Our concerns about traffic, safety, and health were ignored. Nice to see that the County Executive and County Council think some communities are more important than others. And lets not forget Mr. Craig’s favoritism toward Harve de Grace for their new high school at the expense of other Harford County communities. We will see if the County Council rolls over for that one too.
So they already built the transfer station in Joppa. I did not know that. Our county must be great they did it without spending any money or affecting anyone. Good job Harford County! The site must be doing very well no one from Joppa is complaining about its operation.
You are an idiot!
Just so you know:
id•i•ot
NOUN – Informal – An utterly foolish or senseless person… – in need of education
Synonyms: AIRHEADED, BIRDBRAINED, BONEHEAD, BONEHEADED, BRAIN-DEAD, BRAINLESS, BUBBLEHEADED, CHUCKLEHEADED, DENSE, DIM, DIM-WITTED, DOLTISH, DOPEY (also DOPY), DORKY [slang], DULL, DUMB, DUNDERHEADED, EMPTY-HEADED, FATUOUS, GORMLESS [chiefly British], HALF-WITTED, KNUCKLEHEADED, LAMEBRAIN (or LAMEBRAINED), LUNKHEADED, MINDLESS, OAFISH, OBTUSE, OPAQUE, PINHEADED, SENSELESS, SIMPLE, SLOW, SLOW-WITTED, SOFT, SOFTHEADED, THICK, THICKHEADED, THICK-WITTED, UNINTELLIGENT, UNSMART, VACUOUS, WEAK-MINDED, WITLESS…
Get Informed So YOU Can Stop Being An IDIOT!
What are you talking about? Never said it was built yet, but there seems to be very little interest coming from the County Council in stopping it. The point of my post was to show the inequity with which the County Executive and County Council address these matters. Your name calling says more about you than it does about me.
Continue to come to the County Council meeting with your neighbors and make your mark. Make your argument and we support you. Again, this is a situation where our County Executive has not be wholly truthful in the events. He has been quite “grey” about what he did and what APG officials wanted at the site in question. Correct?
Rolling back prices and rolling back your attitudes toward a free market?
When is a corrupt market a free market? This property was not rezoned using laisse-faire principles.
The new Wal-Mart store is a done deal. IF Wal-Mart abides by the zoning laws and doesn’t miss any deadlines, there is no way to stop it. If the resolution the County Council passed last night convinces the SHA from allowing Wal-Mart access to 924 and kills the project, Wal-Mart will have grounds to sue the County (basically for discrimination) and will probably win. (Which means we will be the ones paying). And if they try to change the zoning midstream while Wal-Mart is the “proposed Tenant” as Mr. Stover suggested, Wal-Mart will also have grounds to sue.
So, it’s a done deal people.
Hopefully, this will be a turning pointand a lesson to keep the residents of HC ever vigilant towards what the government is doing in our back yards.
But probably not. They’ll wait to get involved until it’s too late, again!
There’s nothing binding about the resolution the County passed and I don’t see any convincing argument for suing the county. It basically passes the buck to SHA, and I can guarantee that the state won’t deny it unless they are certain they can make a strong case because they don’t want the legal trouble either.
Did you notice that Walmart’s lawyers dropped of a letter to the county council at that meeting? Why? Everyone knows how the law works and county has already admitted they aren’t going to risk being sued, so why the letter? Intimidation. Because that’s how Walmart rolls. They bully and threaten until they get what they want. This has been documented in every store fight around the country. Even if they know they don’t have a case, they’ll threaten a lawsuit anyway. And in all the little small towns in America that don’t have the money to fight even if they wanted to, it works.
What a terrific member of our community.
If they are so awful, why are their stores PACKED with consumers from the same community that is raising hell? They may hate the idea of a Walmart but I’ll be damned if they don’t love the low prices and convenience of getting everything they need in one place. I don’t see why this is even an issue.
A great point that actually doesn’t change anything about the issue, but the answer is the same reason 90% of people think Congress does a terrible job, but 65% of them keep voting in the same people over and over again.
By the same logic, Congress must be doing a great job right?
Congress is something we can control through votes, Walmart is a private business that we can not and should not control with the exception of our business. The traffic concerns should be addressed by the county by installing new infrastructure to support the growing population and businesses.
Why should taxpayers foot the bill for infrastructure changes associated with the building of the new Walm-mart. Wal-mart should have to pay for ALL the infrastructure changes necessary, not just the one that are adjacent to that plot of land.
The county has been very happy to spend the vastly increased tax base that the last 25 years of development has provided on just about everything but roads/traffic. The Bel Air/Hickory Bypass, Rt. 24 (which was supposed to be a limited access, straight shot to 95), traffic lights every 1/4 mile, and numerous roundabouts are about it – band aids to the roads that were built when all of Harford was still rural. Some developers both residential and commercial were required to build roads in the developments but not maintain them. The politicians are quick to revel in the increased tax base and cozy relationships with the developers and should have forseen the deterioration of the infrastructure with the thousands of new homes and businesses to serve them. The time to pay the piper is upon us, and guess who will pay??
Absolutely not. Walmart is a business member of our community and should be held fully accountable to all the same laws, zoning, and regulations as the rest of us in a fair and equitable way. That is the control in place.
And no, government should not be AT ALL be responsible for road improvements required by new development, and thankfully it isn’t. Walmart will pay for the road improvements.
However, that’s only half the story as the devil is in the details. They will only pay for some improvements, and not any more in the future, and their proposed improvements are based on the study they did and paid for. If you think that game isn’t tilted in their favor (and any other development) and not ours, you have a rude awakening in store.
Everytime a new superstore is about to open in a new location there are protests and prognostications of grid lock and doom and gloom. I know because I was one of them when developement started in the early 80s. Here we are practically 30 years later – traffic is worse, there are a ton of houses and people – and yet people still come to Harford County and few leave. The economics of life teaches there are trade-offs for everything. You give up farmland so the heirs can get money and new residents can get mcmansions. You give up space for convenience. Walmart will add traffic but so did Festival. Constant Friendship wasn’t perfect either – one way in and out – ridiculous – especially on weekends. The development envelope was put in place so many years ago. New houses and businesses sprang up everywhere. It’s kind of late now to be trying to shut the gate when the horse already left the stable. I do feel for south county residents – it will be further up the road for lots of folks who already have transporation issues to get to W-m but I guess that’s the price of progress. If you want space, I guess there’s always Montana.
Open suggestion to WalMart-
1. Remodel your current Constant Friendship store into a Super Center that you so wish to have. The “cant sell groceries” clause is irrelevant these days. I am sure the landowners would be happy for you to stay and build bigger.
2. Build an extension and bridge from the end of Constant Friendship Blvd connecting the road to Winter’s Run. Do a nice job, a wide bridge with sidewalks and a traffic light on Winters Run. You are a mega corporation and I am sure you could afford to do this to aid safety and convenience of your customers. Then there will be two ways in and out of the complex, traffic will be alleviated. You wont have to move to Bel Air South and upset everyone, and the folks south of I-95 still have a convenient place to shop. Not to mention you won’t alienate hundreds of people in the 21014, 21015 zip codes.
Besides, now that we have Hollywood taking up residence on Fashion Court it may be a good idea to give them (and their spending $) an easy, quick way to access the retailers and restaurants that the Constant Friendship area represents.
Just a thought.
As NIMBY is, so it goes, and I can pretty much guarantee that certain members of the community impacted by it will scream bloody hell if they tried to follow your second suggestion. However, what they could do is build that outlet and use it only in the case of major incidents, not as a regular through street. That compromise might make everyone happy.
Secondary idea, there is probably a way to build a “loop” into the Constant Friendship Blvd so that traffic could be partially redirected, but so far the developer of the shopping center hasn’t seen fit to spend the money. You can’t half blame them for it.
Wal-Mart cannot expand the existing site any further. The property at the end of Arundel ct. Is not there’s and is supposedly already under development. So, since Wal-Mart wants to expand they have to move. The only possible option to keep Wal-Mart from the new location is to propose a “better” new location for their expansion. Since land is at a premium and no other real option(s) exist in that part of the county, the new Wal-Mart goes in where it’s currently planned to go. There is no stopping it. Sorry!!
Actually, the property at the end of Arundel Ct is another storage facility. Generally, storage facilities are placeholderes for some other kind of development. The facility pays the mortgage until the value goes up and they can sell the land to somebody else. There’s no reason in the world Walmart couldn’t make the right offer for that land other than they don’t want to. Which is their decision. But if they did, it would be a similarly sized parcel of land to the new one.
Also, several different proposals have been suggested to Walmat for how they could make a Supercenter work in the current location. Some of them they have responded to, some of them they have ignored.
All of which really boils down to Walmart ignoring input from the community and doing whatever it wants, which simply translates into more money for them, and less for us.
No the storage facility is on the left the end of the court is vacant but only adjoins Targets property. Wal-Mart can not adjoin the end property because of the ramp.
Yes that’s correct, the property next to the highway and Target is probably not developable, and certainly of no use to Walmart. But the storage facility property is directly next to the Walmart. The current site is about 13 acres, and I’m guessing the storage faciilty would have at laest 4 acres to that, for a minimum of 17 acres. The new site they plan to use is about 19 acres, which only leaves them a couple acres short, and that’s not including the many suggestions that have been made that would reduce the footprint of the store to fit into a smaller property where it already is, which Walmart have so far ignored.
My point is there is probably a way to do it, and to this point, Walmart really hasn’t even had the discussion to even at least give any reasons they won’t even talk about it or try. They have ignored this input from the community. Obviously we can’t force them even if it were possible, but they won’t even have a conversation about it?
Shady.
Isn’t that the property basically a big hill and may not allow for the desired expansion plus earthwork and setbacks and/or WM may have decided, that given the work to be done, it would be cheaper to build elsewhere.
This could all well be true, I’m not an engineer, but Walmart won’t even engage in conversation with the community about alternatives.
If the politicians are complaining about putting Wal Mart where it is going then let’s put it in their neighborhoods. Solution solved.
I have had it in my neighborhood for years and never complained. Oops. I forgot. I am not a politician in an election year. We only hear from certain politicians in an election year. A point to ponder!
You are an idiot!
Just so you know:
id•i•ot
NOUN – Informal – An utterly foolish or senseless person… – in need of education
Synonyms: AIRHEADED, BIRDBRAINED, BONEHEAD, BONEHEADED, BRAIN-DEAD, BRAINLESS, BUBBLEHEADED, CHUCKLEHEADED, DENSE, DIM, DIM-WITTED, DOLTISH, DOPEY (also DOPY), DORKY [slang], DULL, DUMB, DUNDERHEADED, EMPTY-HEADED, FATUOUS, GORMLESS [chiefly British], HALF-WITTED, KNUCKLEHEADED, LAMEBRAIN (or LAMEBRAINED), LUNKHEADED, MINDLESS, OAFISH, OBTUSE, OPAQUE, PINHEADED, SENSELESS, SIMPLE, SLOW, SLOW-WITTED, SOFT, SOFTHEADED, THICK, THICKHEADED, THICK-WITTED, UNINTELLIGENT, UNSMART, VACUOUS, WEAK-MINDED, WITLESS…
Get Informed So YOU Can Stop Being An IDIOT!
Where are these additional 10,000 cars coming from? I travel 924 at plumtree probably 5 times a week, when walmart moves in, when I’m going by, I will probably stop in. Does that make me 1 of the 10,000?
Because if they already exist in Harford county how can they be considered additional?
Yes, and no. You are one of them. You may not be an “additional” member of the count, because as you say you already pass through the area.
But, these are Walmart’s own estimates, based on the results of their market analysis and the traffic study, which has to account for the trips made to their site on any given day, which they have estimated at about 800 cars an hour for around 12 business hours a day. Obviously the traffic will not be spread out evenly.
All of which includes you, as a customer, and anyone else who passes by or goes to the store from other areas in Edgewood, Abingdon, etc.
Most of that traffic will be at the “busy” times, as we all know, and that’s when the traffic is already at its worst.
So to answer your question, much of it is “additional” traffic because people will be going there who weren’t already going there. A supercenter in particular is a destination site for shoppers, so it is going to have a huge draw.
There are even calculations built in to the study that allows Walmart to subtract some current local traffic from its impact, such as you. And that’s a fair thing.
So then when I pull into walmart off of 924. where I would be anyway, I’ll actually be lessening the traffic as I would no longer be in it.
So in essence walmart may actually be reducing the traffic as a percentage of those stuck in it will probably say…. “if I’m stuck here I might as well run in and do some shopping”
Interesting.
No. It is 10,000 car trips per day. You may stop at Walmart when you are already passing by and that is accounted for. Then you get home and think, “Oh, I really needed to pick up more Genetically Modified corn at Walmart”. You get back in your car and make another trip. When your home again you say, “I really should have purchased some Mainstay socks made by Chinese prison workers”, and you make another trip. Finally, your significant other says, “Dear, lets have some antibiotic laced shrimp from Thailand on the barbie for dinner”. Well off you go again for another trip. But choose wisely what time you go because it will take you forever to get home. Your shrimp may go bad. Wait–it’s so laced with drugs it will last forever…all thanks to Walmart <3