Comments

  1. BillH says

    If only people like Andy would lend a hand and help solve problems instead of wanting America to fail.

    Andy do something quick you are going to out on your ear next election cycle and probably needing Obamacare. Here is your chance to actually do something other than complain.

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          • Cdev says

            THanks, just did. Perhaps Harris should have cited his source for that number like he did the other number in the release and the Sun did in their article. I also found this interesting in the Sun article.

            “Most consumers should receive 90-days notice if their plans are being discontinued, the insurance administration said. They could then buy new plans from the carriers or on the state’s new insurance exchange.”

            He acts as if these 73,000 will have no insurance offered. It seems they have choices! I thought choices are good free market capitalisim?

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    • noble says

      And that’s the problem. No citation for his figures. If you choose to believe what a member of Congress tells you without AT LEAST providing a source (never mind evaluating that source), you are a fool.

      Provide a source please, and we’ll talk.

      Other than that, it was already in the law, and known, that plans that were initiated after the law passed AND did not meet minimum standards of the law, would not continue when it went into effect. This was necessary because if people scurried around buying substandard cheap insurance before it went into effect it would hurt the enrollments and undermine the entire financial premise of the law.

      Nobody should be surprised by this, but I suppose nothing sells better than a bill of goods.

      Nevertheless, the President’s statements on keeping your insurance were hasty and foolish.

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      • Mike Welsh says

        While the President’s comments were hasty and foolish, they were also a lie, and he knew it was lie. You are also right that nobody should be surprised by this.

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        • Because says

          Mike… again you will seize on anything to characterize Obama as the worst President since Bush II; just like you seem to praise Gahler and bash Bane.

          The Presidents remarks were incorrect, in part, because he did not anticipate the cancellation of policies by insurance companies who chose not to offer the new standards afforded by ACA.

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          • Mike Welsh says

            You can’t find a single post where I have praised Mr. Gahler. Additionally, I have both criticized and offered praise for Sheriff Bane. I will agree that most of my comments regarding Sheriff Bane are critical of his administration, but I have also praised him, especially for his involvement with the HCSO Christmas Drive for needy families.

            You can fashion President Obama’s comments as incorrect, but you and I both know that when you knowingly give incorrect information it is a lie.

            Most insurance companies are offering replacement policies for the ones that must be cancelled because of the ACA. Those policies however, almost always cost more, include significant increases in out of pocket expense to the buyer (deductibles), and include coverage for medical issues for which the buyer has absolutely no need.

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          • PissOffRepulican says

            Ignorace of the law is no excuse…..Especially if it was HIS Law!!!!!!!! I only pray the President of the United States is not as “uninformed” (putting it nicely) as he is pretending to be..What… he didn’t read his own law??????? Now,,, where is Harryless Reid,,, and Nancy Pelosi???? remember??? “we have to pass the law in order to see whats in it”.. (sure got quiet real quick). Watched Chris Mathews , and Al Sharpton, (msnbc news) all but shedding tears , that the Republican party is to blame for the Presidents mess, and now after having an unprepared law CRAMED down the Americans throat. The Dems want the Republicans to “bail” them out Dispite all the warnings of “Obama Care” The Dems , LIED and misrepresented the law for what will really happen to the American people because of Obama Care. Now after all that ranting, lets hope the Dems and Repubs, can somehow pull this all together, for the good of America.

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      • ALEX R says

        Noble,

        The statements were “hasty and foolish” only if he didn’t realize the impact. I believe he did realize the impact which makes them outright falsehoods. I note he has now chosen to backtrack but he has to know that him saying people can keep their plans is also hot air because it is too late for that and their plans no longer exist. And will not be re-created. Which he also knows. If he doesn’t know any of this stuff then he is dumb, dumb, dumb and our friend Cdev would have us believe he is “the smart, black man . . . . ” in Cdev’s exact words.

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    • Kharn says

      It is a little false to use “applications” as a metric to determine success, since you must apply before you can see the offered plans and compare them to your other options.

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      • ALEX R says

        Who cares, Kharn? Whatever number makes them look good. Unfortunately even the best numbers reveal them to be incompetent at best, liars at worst. So we are going to have incompetent liars managing our health care? Just remember, folks, they are not going to have the same health care that they demand you have. Theirs will be much better. You all are the ‘equal animals’. They are the MORE equal animals”.

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      • pizzle says

        Oh no! You’re citing that “extreme, right wing” news authority……..THE BALTIMORE SUN?!? Next you’ll be offering links to Fox News!….say it ain’t so!

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  2. Tom Myers says

    From the Washington Post on November 1. 2013:

    “Maryland has enrolled 82,473 people in Medicaid expansion coverage, which accounts for 96 percent of total enrollment. Maryland’s exchange, the Maryland Health Connection, has enrolled 3,186 residents.The high enrollment in the Medicaid expansion is because Maryland is automatically enrolling state residents in its Primary Adult Care Program, which offers limited health benefits to those who earn less than 116 percent of the poverty line, about $13,330 for an individual.”

    The Medicaid expansion is a result of actions taken by the O’Malley administration because a majority of Marylanders, unlike Mr. Harris, want the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act to work.

    It’s quite interesting to see all of these RepubliCAN’Ts worry about how the website is working considering they want everything to just fail without providing any other alternative.

    Tom Myers
    Member, Harford County Democratic Central Committee
    Member, Board of Directors, New Harford Democratic Club
    Harford County Coordinator, John LaFerla for Congress

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    • Mike Welsh says

      Do you really want an alternative to this failure? Several were offered as amendments to this law when it was still a bill before congress and they were all defeated by the democratic majority.

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        • Common Sense says

          Because the American people would have rejected single-payer at the time the Democrats passed and President Obama signed into law ACA.

          Because single-payer would be rejected today.

          Because the President and Democrats had to say to Americans that “If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period.” & exclamation point.

          Because you can’t bring yourself to admit that the President and Democrats were either prevaricating or incompetent when it comes to the passage of ACA.

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    • B says

      Mr. Myers is touting the successful transition of 80000 people from going to the emergency room, that we all pay for, to Medicaid, that we all pay for. Slight of hand, not a solution. Thank you for more progressive bull shit Tom.

      I think Republi-don’t want is more appropriate.

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      • ALEX R says

        Thanks, Tom. Is Wendy Rosen out of jail yet?

        Yes, Tom, she is the poster child for the party that supported her.

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  3. WHAT says

    I love how the Demturds are trying to spin this EPIC FAIL and power grab as if average citizens wants this shit law.

    Almost every single person that I know has had HUGE INCREASES in their existing health plans and some of them have had their plans completely canceled. I know a guy who owns his own business and has a staff of 12 employees and has had an annual increase of $60K per year and is getting less coverage than last years policy.

    Obama is a LIER and this bill was passed and sold as “you have to pass the bill to see what is in the bill”. Not one Republican voted for this shit bill and have tried over 40 times to stop its implementation. Now “average joe” is getting a small taste of this law and its effects on citizens. The fact is that the employer mandate doesn’t even kick in until 2015 and estimates that 120 million people will get dumped or see HUGE increases like some people have already received.

    The demturds with their free birth control pills, keeping able-bodied kids on parents policies until they are 26 years old and giving pre-existing condition citizens access to healthcare have forced every citizen to pay more to insure them. Clearly, this is part of the socialism that Obama and the other demturds have wanted for years.

    Now when the rubber hits the road half of the demturd voters have to open their wallets, they are seeing for the first time that this will actually cost them much more money – not the rich people. The other half of the demturd voters will realize that obamacare is not free medial care and they have to pay more money and HUGE deductibles before the governments pays anything – not what they were expecting either.

    I hope that all of you demturds enjoy this shit sandwich and your remaining time in office as I smell a revote in your party and a repudiation of this party and its policies come election day.

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    • Five Iron says

      Yea WHAT! Screw those people with pre-existing conditions. They deserved to get cancer, MS, Hep-C, Alzheimers. Eff them, let them go bankrupt cause I don’t want to pay for someone elses poor life choices. Republican and proud….not. I also don’t want to pay for the fire department since it’s something I’ll never use. See how ridiculous that sounds. Back under the bridge, troll.

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      • pizzle says

        The backers of this POS bill NEED the young and healthy to sign up for coverage in order for this redistribution of wealth to work. I guess we’ll see how willing they are to step up and “take one for the team”.

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      • WHAT says

        @duffer

        No one said “screw them” to people that have pre-existing conditions. We have plans available to poor people and for people that don’t have access to care. Insurance is a “for profit” business it is not a non-profit business. When people who pay $200 a month with cancer utilize $100K per month in medial expenses no insurance company on this planet will insure them. I would take 500 additional people per month at $200 month for them just to break even. If the profit margin was lets say 30% for insurance companies then it would cost all of the 500 people an additional $60 per month to cover just one very sick person.

        I don’t see you opening your home to people with MS and Hep-C. I would bet that you are the type of guy that wouldn’t even donate food and toys for homeless and needy kids at Christmas time.

        What you don’t understand is that there are roughly 5 million people without insurance. We have already spent 600 million just on the website and not to mention the millions going to Obama paid hacks to sign people up on these exchanges. In order for Obamacare to work they need tens of millions of people paying into the system so that the sick can be subsidized. With most young people rarely if ever needing medical they are not likely to want to pay $400 dollars per month to get a plan through Obamacare when they could pay $80 per month to get a good private insurance plan themselves.

        If your argument holds true then where are the millions of destitute people that need our help with medical care? Only 100K people have signed up on the exchange. The fact is that many poor thought this was just another ObamaFreebee at our expense and now they realize this was a bait-and-switch. These people will have to pay for care themselves and have huge deductibles that many of them cannot afford.

        Many States, including Maryland had existing laws that mandate that insurance companies cannot factor pre-existing conditions into company health plans, rates are based on average age of group. So if you had a job with a company that offered medical coverage (and most do) you could get coverage regardless of pre-existing condition.

        If you really want to drive down insurance costs:

        Where was the legislation on tort reform?
        Where was the legislation on importation of foreign medication?
        Where was the right for individuals and companies to join groups to get discounted group rates?
        Where is legislation to implement damage caps so that doctors do not have to practice defensive medicine out of fear of being sued?
        Where was the legislation for companies and individuals to buy insurance across State lines?
        Where was the legislation for people to open health savings accounts and have them be tax deductible?

        There are many ways to fix healthcare and bring down costs.

        Displacing millions of citizens and throwing them into Obamacare is not the answer.

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        • Five Iron says

          I don’t need to open my home to others with the diseases mentioned, those people are me and my family. The whole ECONOMIC point of insurance is that those in the group who never use it subsidise those who do. Pergylated Interferon, Ribavarin, Incivik…I have BCBS being self-insured, self employed. I cannot, nor will BCBS, pay much, if anything for “Special Formulary” drugs. It is $22,000.00 per month with a possible 50/50 chance of cure. Healthcare is “for profit” in THIS country, and it is an anamoly worldwide and should be retired. There are “for profits” in single payer systems IF you wish to opt-in, but you never lose your universal care. Tort reform is a bugaboo, adds a bare minimum to overall h/c costs. Are you willing to take a settlement if it was your life or your families due to a medical injury of say 10k vice 100k?
          Foreign importation is not going to happen. Every D and Every R is in the pocket of pharm lobbyists to ensure it doesn’t happen. HSA’s are available, I have one and my grandfathered plan (that was not cancelled) allows me to keep it (5k per year). Most companies have FSA’s from those who I deal with at the locations I go visit for work. The real issue is those “millions” are out there hence that is why the website is crashing. See, massive usage of the site is causing it to fail. Was the site implemented properly? Hell no. That doesn’t mean the issue is the law. The Republican Medicare Part D implementation was plagued for months before it was functional and had nowhere near the number of people to service. You don’t realize how bad insurance companies screw people until you are subjected to a chronic illness. I have had this policy since 2003 and it went up thru 2008 from about 110 a month to 500.00 per month. Since 2008, 130.88 cents have been added per month ($630 a month now). Things insurance payment-wise for me are much better over the past 4-5 years than the previous 5 years. From 2001-2008 insurance company profits went from about 2-1/2 billion to close to 12 billion, rates went up 150% on average. You company workers may not have seen that because your employers ate most the cost and gave you smaller raises. Well, welcome to the real world where you get what you paid for and us business owners have known this for a long time. Oh, and since you thought I didn’t want to let others into my home, I kick puppies too. Jeebus dude, think of someone besides yourself.

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          • MUFFMOUTHSKI says

            You use $22000 per month and only pay $650 per month.

            Sure we all should pay more for you…………… or better yet you can pay more.

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          • Five Iron says

            I don’t pay 22k a month. I wish I could. I cannot buy the medicine and I AM INSURED. Do you see the problem? Insurance is shared risk. I don’t wish to pay for YOUR fire protection service as I never use it but I do. That is what taxes and the shared risk of insurance have in common. I will just wait until either A: a cure is found or B: a liver transplant which IS covered IF I don’t get liver cancer first and can find a donor. This is why for profit healthcare, like for profit prisons, are morally reprehensible.

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          • Common Sense says

            @Five Iron

            I wish you well with your health.

            If you have eliminate a for profit industry like health care you eliminate innovation and creativity. You will have fewer new drugs or procedures unless there is a return for shareholders and investors.

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          • John Cole says

            You stated “If you have eliminate a for profit industry like health care you eliminate innovation and creativity. ”

            This needs clarification; “Healthcare” does not put a dime into innovation and creativity. This is done by drug and equipment manufacturers, who enjoy the benefits of patents or formulary rights.

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          • Five Iron says

            Thank you Common Sense. Appreciate it. I disagree with the lack of innovation. Plenty of innovations in H/C have been done outside of the US. I’ll leave it at that and appreciate your concern. I have a life to live and grandkids to enjoy, too short to putz around arguing on the interwebs. Have a good weekend!

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        • Common Sense says

          @Five Iron

          We live in a global economy.

          It is inefficient that our free market capitalistic system makes it possible for other countries to rely on us for innovation, research & development and at the same time they beat our pharmaceutical and medical device companies down having to submit to price controls in those countries.

          Would you want to rely on Canada, a great country, to find cures for cancer, HIV/Aids and heart disease instead of a profit seeking country like US?

          Free markets, overwhelmingly the US, have done more to improve health care outcomes then ones that are not. It’s a indisputable fact.

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          • John Cole says

            It feels like I am arguing with you, but I really am not!

            As you state, we live in a global economy, and therefore enjoy the benefits. However, research into cures is typically done in universities, and is largly funded by grants from governments, drug and equipment manufacturers and charities. The researchers do not generally do this for money, they do it for science, and the research is also global.

            The USA benefits considerably from global research, so much so that probably 80% of curative medicine research, from which we benefit, is from overseas. You cited Canada; you might want to look at http://legionmagazine.com/en/index.php/2009/08/eight-great-canadian-medical-breakthroughs/ or for India: http://forbesindia.com/article/special/3-medical-breakthroughs-in-india/34449/1

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          • Five Iron says

            That was true in the past, however one must not forget that NIH funds close to 25 billion per year (a govt entity) for these companies to provide this service. China, India, Israel and most of Europe have caught up and in some cases surpassed the US in medical innovation.

            http://www.policymed.com/2011/01/pwc-medical-technology-innovation-scorecard-us-falling-behind-in-the-race-for-global-leadership.html

            I’d rather we not rest on our laurels. Russia was and is a leader in eye correction surgery, having done this in the late 60’s, early 70’s and the US wouldn’t even attempt it until the 80’s. Heart transplants by Dr DeBakey were done in South Africa years before the US. I’ll leave you with this, when was the last time a true “cure” has been done in medicine since polio? The US has allowed the anti-science/anti-intellectual crowd to gain an upper hand in one party, hence why there is so much grief in this country for anything related to stem cell research. Medical tourism to locations outside of the US is at an all time high (and it is done by US Trained doctors who no longer decide to stay in the US for various reasons). US Healthcare in its present form (and O-care is nothing more than a major gift to health insurance companies once the R’s stripped out the public option) is failing the population of the country as a whole. One of the main concerns of chasing profit is that almost all money is go to solving mostly 1st world problems — heart disease, obesity, diabetes. Countries not affected by those items have had to build their systems from scratch to tackle items like sub-tropical diseases such as Dengue fever, malaria etc. No US companies will spend money on solving those type of problems, even though they effect the largest part of the world’s population. Europe (Bayer) along with India, Malaysia, and others are however. It’s giving away our once solid lead in medical discovery because they have placed profit above the altruistic basis of medicine. Those countries create new medicine/procedures/devices and still maintain healthcare for their respective populations. It’s just a matter of whether the US is willing to pay for coverage for all as part of a civilized world or decide to remain in the past with a wild west, dog eat dog, sorry you lost the genetic lottery system that is currently in place.

            Thanks for not going ballistic like most Dagger commenters! Time to go out and enjoy the rain for me!

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  4. robocop says

    FOOLS, who do you think ends up paying for the expanded eligibility of Medicaid. Medicaid falls on the state to cover. You think your taxes are high now, just wait. Welcome to the FEE state of Maryland!!!!!!!

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    • The Money Tree says

      The story on the over the top Medicaid enrollments is hardly even being touched. Those are pure costs and overload to a health care system with a diminishing number of physicians willing to even accept Medicaid anymore. That alone could easily blow up the system. 106,000 thousand Obamacare enrollees and millions and millions of new medicaid clients – it’s a nightmare nobody is even addressing.

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  5. Rivan says

    I’m retired, and today I signed up for my Corporations Open Enrollment Health Care Plan this evening. To all you idiots (Dumbocrats and “Independants”) that voted for this lying sack of you know what thanks for the 20% increase. I now pay $1,520 a MONTH for health care. What happened to the reduced costs? I guess I’m lucky in that I could keep my Doctor. However, since Owemalley “taxed” me out of the State Thank God I now live in South Carolina!!!!!!!

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  6. John Cole says

    This particular debacle is caused by the dysfunction of the US government, and the interference of vested interest.

    If it’s a democratic bill the republicans will never allow it to pass, and vice versa. If, like this bill, it does somehow become enacted, it is doomed to failure.

    The republicans view ACA as a vote catcher for the poor and disenfranchised in favor of the democrats.

    The medical profession detests the bill as it will reduce their revenues and increase their overhead. It is also the start of a dictatorial health system, with the potential for data capture, profiling, and political obstruction. Personally, I don’t want a clerk denying my hernia operation because of my political leanings.

    The insurance industry view it as a disaster, they were doing quite nicely, now they face potential caps and limitations. This, in itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but, facing danger, they are reacting to this bill the best way they can, by cancelling existing policies as “not being in compliance”. Furthermore, it is almost certain that quotes received to the ACA or state sites are vastly inflated, the whole industry is in agreement, and consequently are using excessive quotations to kill the bill. They have no interest in accepting policies without knowing about preexisting conditions.
    A large percentage of the population don’t like the bill, anything with government interference has historically been doomed to bureaucracy, red tape, and ultimately doomed to failure. The only way the act can survive is if it contains draconian measures for non-compliance. Oh! Indeed it does!

    The plan just might have been achievable if the drafters of the legislation had worked with the insurance industry and LISTENED to them, had worked with the opposition and LISTENED to them, and had LISTENED to the public. However, arrogance overrode all these principals, causing the current debacle.

    Notwithstanding, here is one overriding fact; as long as you retain the “for profit” elements in such a plan, greed by the insurers and the medical industry will succeed in bloating the plan until it implodes.

    We accept that education is a right, and your child’s education is paid by the taxpayer. Isn’t healthcare just as important?

    Take a long look at this chart; every nation listed, with the exception of USA has a national healthcare system. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8b/Health_systems_comparison_OECD_2008.png

    There is a case for national health care, I have personally experienced in Europe. In Belgium and the Netherlands it is first class; in the UK it is poor, primarily because of overarching government interference. (Much like our education system)

    The start to fixing this problem is for politicians to abandon their parties preconceptions, and start working on behalf of their constituents. If that can ever be achieved, the situation might be salvageable.

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    • The Money Tree says

      I’ve not experienced european health care – but we lived next to a german family for a time. They made it clear that the care they received stunk up the place. It had become a two tiered system by which workers paid into a system they couldn’t use. If you wanted to see a doctor right away you paid cash; so you pay into a system you can’t use and pay again to actually see someone if you need care right away. In fact there are german doctors whose nearly entire practice is cash based. No thanks – I’m not interested in waiting in line behind a 250 lb. diabetic welfare queen with three kids by different fathers when I’ve worked all my life to better my position, saved money, gone to work just so that when the time comes I can see a doctor.

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      • John Cole says

        Until you have the experience, don’t even bother to comment.
        You are most unlikely to come across a “250 lb. diabetic welfare queen with three kids by different fathers” in Europe; that is primarily a US phenomenum.

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        • The Money Tree says

          Could be but they do have a huge issue with immigration from the middle east, – another issue for which the germans complained. The “new immigrants” generally fail to integrate into the culture, most often are unemployed and rely on the german welfare state to take care of most of thier needs. Native germans are afraid to voice thier pent up angers because of the taint of Hitler and world war II. The “germans” are the ones who work and pay for everything and they work like americans – long hours but in thier case the taxes are very, very high which ours inevitably will be as we morph into this welfare state.

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          • John Cole says

            This is a half myth. Germany, Holland and Belgium absorbed thousands of Turkish refugees back in the 70’s and 80’s. Subsequently they absorbed refugees from Serbia and Croatia. Most of these people are hard working and contribute to the economy, integrating as best they could.

            The UK has many people from the Middle East and Asia; this is because people from the colonies often had British passports, and there was no restraint on their entering the country. Once they had settled and found work, they sent for their families. These people generally didn’t integrate so well, but still contributed to the economy.

            Jump forward to the 21st century and that picture is changing fast. All European countries are having to accept incredible numbers of refugees from Africa and the Middle East, displaced by the Bush wars and the consequent stride of militant islamic faith through both continents. This situation is comparable to the US illegal immigrant problem.

            The “welfare leeches” that you describe are, in the US, caused by the government’s inertia on tackling the problem; I suspect that very often it is the “Rave Card” that is the inhibitor. In most European countries welfare is now very hard to obtain, and what you do receive will only sustain the barest of essentials. The European welfare recipient with a cell phone, a car less than three years old, and a plasma TV, although they exist, are very rare, and often spend time in prison for fraud.

            Thus your argument detracts from the subject; where a person is a productive member of society, a national healthcare system can exist, and if managed properly, is NOT welfare. Where your legislation allows for, and actually promotes sloth, you will have to pay the freight for many others.

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          • The Money Tree says

            I spoke to these german folks at length – there are now parts of germany occupied almost entirely by concentrated subgroups that have not assimilated and therefore are not able to be productive – the only section of Germany that remains german in culture is in the southwest in and around the black forest (according to them). In addition, the stories she told me about turkish gangs targeting americans…particularly american soldiers were disturbing to say the least; beating them to near death for fun. The turks weren’t exactly portrayed as the productive members of society you describe.

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          • The Money Tree says

            By the way John looked it up – the unemployment rate for the turks in Germany is 21%, Russian unemployment is 25% and those are the two largest migrant groups in Germany.

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          • John Cole says

            Money Tree
            Don’t misrepresent the munbers by omisssion. The Turkish population is 4% of the German population. Therefore you need to calculate 21% of 4% of the population; that is a little over 128,000 people out of a total population of 80 million.

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          • The Money Tree says

            Those unemployment numbers are horrible – you’re the one who suggested these immigrants were productive and I’m telling you they aren’t. That’s not to mention the east german issue – ask the germans from west germany how differently the east germans think. Not thier fault but after years under the boot of socialist policies the mindset produces a profound lack of inititative. West germans are very tired of pulling the wagon for east germans and all these migrants. Back to the health care system though and since all these people were loaded into the German system the entire thing has gone to crap – not so unlike our current Obamacare fiasco.

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    • WHAT says

      It is not greed on insurance and medical companies part.

      The Federal government mandates that hospitals cannot deny care to anyone (including illegals) emergency care. For far too long the sick and the poor who have no care have utilized hospitals as a last resort in getting care when their conditions have reached critical mass. Instead of treating conditions early many of these people chose to wait. You can go to any emergency room in any major city and find them full of people with colds and toting 203 kids with so illness with no way to pay for care.

      Ever single hospital would go broke providing this level of care to millions of people. Not one person in a hospital works for free, they all get paid for their services. The rub is that hospitals get this revenue from insurance companies from your care. Remember the days when you would see your doctor and they took cash? They would ask you if you wanted to pay cash or bill your insurance. When you looked at the bill you couldn’t believe what the insurance company was billed for your care (sometimes 2-3 times the cash price). Hospitals have been raising rates for years on insurance companies to cover rising malpractice insurance from greedy lawyers. Hospitals have been subsidizing care for the non-insured for years at your expense. For many years Hospitals have been over-billing insurance companies for your care to pay for the emergency care for the poor and sick.

      We have already been paying for them for many years just like on our electric bills, cable and phone bills too. We pay additional money every month on these bills to give poor people Obamaphones, energy assistance and many other programs for the poor.

      There is never enough money – EVER for them to stop taking from you.

      Soon you will be one of the poor OR the poor will reach your income level from your handouts to them – welcome to Obamanomics and the current master plan of Marx and the Democratic party.

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      • The Money Tree says

        That “greed” mantra is just another talking point. In reality insurance companies operate under a much lower profit margin that most private businesses because the cost structures and prices must go through an insurance commissioner in order to be approved. Insurance companies have a very intensive actuarial process in order to arrive at costs that will provide the payments needed and keep the company solvent. Obama can’t be that stupid to think he can just suddenly mandate that insurance companies are suddenly required to reinstate all these old policies, absorb a bunch of sick people in the exhanges – the reason the rates went up in the first place are both new mandates and sicker people. The insurance companies are not required to become insolvent over a liberal wet dream that’s beginning to fall into tatters.

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          • The Money Tree says

            500 billion? Baloney. Aetna’s third quarter profit operating profit was 561 million. Most of that will be rolled back into costs as this cluster continues to negatively impact the bottom line.

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          • The Money Tree says

            You seriously think 500 million is a windfall? It’s a pittance when you consider profits are split between investor dividends, research and development, capital improvements, etc. 500 million is nothing.

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          • John Cole says

            We are discussing insurance here – no serious R&D, captal improvements, generally property, are investments, and therefor are appreciation assets.

            Money Tree: I’m done with you petty rebuttals – bye!

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          • The Money Tree says

            Petty? You made an assertion that Aetna is swimming in profit and when proved completely wrong you run away. K…bye?

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      • John Cole says

        A lot of what you state I cannot disagree with. However, the insurance companies would like to continue to enjoy their multi billion dollar net revenues from medical insurance.

        As for the hospital argument, how is it that organizations like Upperchesapeake and Lancaster General can continue to expand, with magnificent schemes like the planned Havre de Grace hopital (currently on hold because of Obamacare) if they are so fiscally strapped?

        Why does my healthcare plan pay up to 30 times the cost for a drug available in Europe, where the patents expired 50 years ago?

        I’m afraid we are being screwed at both ends of the spectrum, and is has to stop.

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        • The Money Tree says

          Not really saying that there aren’t problems with our current; or what used to be our current system but there are (were) some good things about our system too. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater surely wasn’t the answer, particularly into a system bound to fail and for which it made no sense. You need only deduce that adding 40 million people, heavy on the sicker and poorer into a health insurance system will result in much higher costs. Shame on the media for cheerleading this mess when a 5 year old could have told you costs will not come down under that basic premise.

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        • Common Sense says

          @john cole

          Which drug that went off patent 50 years ago are you paying 30 times the comparable cost of this same drug sold in Europe?

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          • John Cole says

            Primidone and Phenytoin, which I still use today.: I actually took part in the intial testing of these products around 1956. However, my daughter is a nurse in Europe; I asked her to cost them compaired to the price my plan cliams to be paying.

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          • Common Sense says

            @John Cole

            I’m confused how these drugs that you say are off-patent have somehow been kept away from generic production.

            I am very curious about this because I’m very intrigued how this works.

            I am all for patent protection, but not prolonged protection.

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          • John Cole says

            I did not say these drugs had been kept from generic production, in fact I use generics.

            Primidone was originally produced in the UK by Imperial Chemical Industry (ICI), now known as AstraZenica, and was known as Mysoline. In 194 Wyeth produced the product for the US market.

            Phenytoin was first discovered in 1908, and was originally brought to Market by Parke Davis in the UK in 1947, branded as Epanutin. Shortly afterwards it was intoduced in the USA as Phenytek by Mylan Labs. In the USA it is also known as Dilantin.

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  7. observer says

    The plutocrats must love all this bickering, which masks the real truth. We went through a year of “serious” discussion of health care without discussing the two most basic facts: Our spending per capita on health care is two to three times the rest of the modern world, with same-to-worse outcomes; and we are the only modern nation without universal care. Somebody is doing a lot of skimming. We have the best government money can buy.

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