From Presbyterian Home of Maryland:
In an effort to ensure access to the most up-to-date and accurate information on its proposed new continuing care retirement community in Harford County prior to a January 6 community input meeting at Southampton Middle School, Presbyterian Home of Maryland has released answers to some of the questions most frequently asked by concerned area residents.
Traffic & Roads
Q: Will access roads to the new community run through surrounding neighborhoods?
A: Primary access to the CCRC will be from Fountain Green Road/Route 543. There will be a secondary access from Cloverfield Court. The access from Fallstaff Road will be gated and used only for emergencies.
Q: Will a traffic light be added at the entrance to the new CCRC off of Route 543?
A: Traffic decisions are made entirely by local and state transportation officials, who will review our traffic study before making a final decision.
Q: Won’t the high volume of traffic into and out of the new CCRC add to the existing congestion on Route 543?
A: On average, only 50% of CCRC residents still use a car. Those who do own a car leave the campus on average 3 days a week and tend to drive during off-peak hours.
Neighborhood Impact
Q: How will the addition of the CCRC impact resources such as water and schools?
A: The CCRC is separate from the single family home development and operates as a self-contained community with:
· Internal security / emergency call system
· Low traffic generator
· No school use
· Private roads / snow removal / maintenance
· Private trash removal
· Low water usage
· Transportation provided to residents
Q: Will residents of neighboring communities be bombarded with sirens from emergency vehicles?
A: Based on the projected population of the new CCRC, we anticipate only 1-2 EMT visits per month. (We will have staff on site 24 hours a day capable of handling non-life threatening emergencies.) EMT’s turn off their sirens and lights when entering the campus so as not to disturb residents and surrounding areas.
Q: Is it true that a nursing facility will be built a mere 80 feet from existing residences and that new single family homes will closely abut existing homes?
A: No, in response to concerns from residents of neighboring communities the design team is evaluating several options to increase the buffer.
Q: How will you ensure that the construction of a four-story building is not an eyesore?
A: Our campus will only use 26 of the 58 acres we are purchasing in phase one of the development, and even at full build out will use just 37 acres. We are very conscious of surrounding neighborhoods and have already identified large trees to use as screens.
Site Questions
Q: Wasn’t the proposed site under a farm moratorium? Did Presbyterian Home of Maryland request a zoning change?
A: No, the proposed site has been zoned for this use since 1982. We did not request any zoning changes. Any other information previously provided to the contrary was unfortunately erroneous.
Q: Aren’t you trying to squeeze way too many units on to one parcel?
A: As opposed to other senior living communities that accommodate hundreds of residents on a very small parcel (as little as 5 acres), our new CCRC will develop just 40% of our portion of the site, retaining the rest as green space including walking paths and a playground that will be open to the community.
Economic Impact
Q: What are the economic implications of this new CCRC for Harford County?
A: According to independent analysis from the highly-respected Sage Policy Group, the new CCRC is projected to generate a net fiscal benefit for Harford County of nearly $800,000 per year and add 160 permanent jobs in the County which bring additional tax revenue and up to $15 million in annual sales for area business.
Q: Will costly entry and monthly fees mean the average person can’t afford to live in your new community?
A: While we have not yet finalized pricing, it is our goal to make our new community affordable for as many people as possible. Entrance fees will be based on the market value of other homes in the area, while monthly fees are dependent on operational costs.
Q: Will Presbyterian Home of Maryland seek tax relief to finance this new community?
A: We have not yet finalized our financing decisions and do not expect to do so until our financial models are complete.
Community Input
Q: What is Presbyterian Home of Maryland doing to address the concerns of neighboring communities, residents and businesses?
A: PHM has been proactive in reaching out to area homeowner and community associations. CEO Susan Shea has personally met with each group at least once and in some cases several times, and will continue to be accessible and receptive. It is our intent to be a good neighbor and add value to the neighborhoods in which you live.
Q: Will the January community input meeting be the only chance area residents have to voice concerns about the project?
A: The January 6, 2014 community input meeting will be followed by DAC meetings for the concept plan and the preliminary. PHM will be happy to continue to meet informally as we have already been doing.
Q: How else can area residents communicate questions and concerns to Presbyterian Home?
A: PHM CEO Susan Shea is committed to making herself personally available to respond to any concerns. You can email Susan at sdshea@presbyterianhomeofmd.org.
Other Questions
Q: Aren’t there already enough housing options for Harford County seniors? Why do we need a new CCRC?
A: Harford County’s senior population (65+) is expected to expand 47 percent from 2010-2020. While there are approximately 30 CCRC’s located throughout Maryland, there is not currently one in Harford County, which means that seniors looking to “age in place” – progressing from independent living to full nursing or dementia care without having to relocate – are forced to leave the county.
Q: How do we know that Presbyterian Home of Maryland is a reputable owner/operator?
A: PHM has been in business for 130 years and currently operates just one other senior living community located in Towson. Other facts:
· PHM is a not-for-profit 501(c)3 providing $1.2 million of benevolent care each year.
· Our mission is to provide Christian-based retirement living and health care through a continuum of life in a warm and caring environment.
· Our surveys with the State and local governments are posted on the Maryland State Health Care Commission and Office of Health Care Quality websites.
· PHM also holds all applicable licenses and registrations. For more information, visit our website at www.presbyterianhomeofmd.org.
To learn more about Presbyterian Home of Maryland, please visit www.presbyterianhomeofmd.org.
Looks good to me, what have you got to say now NIMBYs?
I’m still gonna probably end up at Glen Meadows, but I’ll check this place out before I make a final decision.
Enjoy Glen Meadows. One less person driving on the wrong side of the road.
A very clever article. Obviously written by Counsel and a PR firm to provide just a slim element of truth, without committing to anything. Very gratuitous. My comments are in italics. Long post
I hope that someone will request all of the conversations between Presbyteian Home, all County offices, State offices, including Senators and Representatives and National offices.
In an effort to ensure access to the most up-to-date and accurate information on its proposed new continuing care retirement community in Harford County prior to a January 6 community input meeting at Southampton Middle School, Presbyterian Home of Maryland has released answers to some of the questions most frequently asked by concerned area residents.
Frequently Asked Questions about Presbyterian Home of Maryland’s Proposed Continuing Care Retirement Community (CCRC)
Traffic & Roads
Q: Will access roads to the new community run through surrounding neighborhoods?
A: Primary access to the CCRC will be from Fountain Green Road/Route 543. There will be a secondary access from Cloverfield Court. The access from Fallstaff Road will be gated and used only for emergencies.
“We have three entrance exit routes. Primary will have a nice sign, secondary will be through your neighborhood. Emergency will be through your neighborhood, we will open it when it is convenient for us. We have no control over which route our residents or delivery choose to use. By the way, if emergency vehicles choose to go red light and siren through your neighborhood, too bad. And the hearse will only go by the most inobtrusive direct route through our facility after dark. We do not want to disturb our residents. Too bad for you.”
Q: Will a traffic light be added at the entrance to the new CCRC off of Route 543?
“Additional traffic is not our problem. We are not paying to alleviate your traffic problems.”
A: Traffic decisions are made entirely by local and state transportation officials, who will review our traffic study before making a final decision.
“We believe that we will not have to pay to fix any traffic problems, because our residents will not be contributing to the problem. Please ignore the additional commercial traffic that will deliver food, medical supplies, and other consumables. They will not add to the problem. Additionally, if it is more convenient for them to go through your residential neighborhood, too bad for you.”
Q: Won’t the high volume of traffic into and out of the new CCRC add to the existing congestion on Route 543?
A: On average, only 50% of CCRC residents still use a car. Those who do own a car leave the campus on average 3 days a week and tend to drive during off-peak hours.
“And what will the commercial traffic be? Food deliveries, medical supplies, and others?”
Neighborhood Impact
Q: How will the addition of the CCRC impact resources such as water and schools?
A: The CCRC is separate from the single family home development and operates as a self-contained community with:
• Internal security / emergency call system
• Low traffic generator
• No school use
• Private roads / snow removal / maintenance
• Private trash removal
• Low water usage
• Transportation provided to residents
“Ah yes. We are not going to discuss the single family homes. We are not going to tell you who will be building these houses, and they may in fact seek other variances to increase the number of houses that will be built. We have the county in our pocket, and therefore, we will do as we please. We will not use schools, and will therefore use that as a reason to seek tax exemption, However, we will require an educated workforce that all of you other residents should pay for. We will pay for transportation on the roads that you pay for. We will also depend on you to clear the roads that we will use to transport our residents.”
Q: Will residents of neighboring communities be bombarded with sirens from emergency vehicles?
A: Based on the projected population of the new CCRC, we anticipate only 1-2 EMT visits per month. (We will have staff on site 24 hours a day capable of handling non-life threatening emergencies.) EMT’s turn off their sirens and lights when entering the campus so as not to disturb residents and surrounding areas.
“EMT’s will turn off their lights and sirens when they enter our facility. However, they will use them when they go through your neighborhood or on your roads to access our facility. Sorry for your inconvenience.”
Q: Is it true that a nursing facility will be built a mere 80 feet from existing residences and that new single family homes will closely abut existing homes?
“We are going to maximize our area. We have the zoning and variances to do what we want. Sorry for your inconvenience. You should have voted better.”
A: No, in response to concerns from residents of neighboring communities the design team is evaluating several options to increase the buffer.
Q: How will you ensure that the construction of a four-story building is not an eyesore?
A: Our campus will only use 26 of the 58 acres we are purchasing in phase one of the development, and even at full build out will use just 37 acres. We are very conscious of surrounding neighborhoods and have already identified large trees to use as screens.
“We have the variances in place, Your concerns are not important. We are going to flip the private residences to someone else, for a profit, after we get the tax incentives, TIFs in place.”
Site Questions
Q: Wasn’t the proposed site under a farm moratorium? Did Presbyterian Home of Maryland request a zoning change?
A: No, the proposed site has been zoned for this use since 1982. We did not request any zoning changes. Any other information previously provided to the contrary was unfortunately erroneous.
“The property was zoned R1. A permitted use in this zoning was a CCRC. We did ask for a variance for a 4 story building, and we may front a request for additional single family dwellings.”
Q: Aren’t you trying to squeeze way too many units on to one parcel?
A: As opposed to other senior living communities that accommodate hundreds of residents on a very small parcel (as little as 5 acres), our new CCRC will develop just 40% of our portion of the site, retaining the rest as green space including walking paths and a playground that will be open to the community.
“We are going to do whatever we can to maximize the available land we have. If we require additional variances we will get more. We have the resources.”
Economic Impact
Q: What are the economic implications of this new CCRC for Harford County?
A: According to independent analysis from the highly-respected Sage Policy Group, the new CCRC is projected to generate a net fiscal benefit for Harford County of nearly $800,000 per year and add 160 permanent jobs in the County which bring additional tax revenue and up to $15 million in annual sales for area business.
“This is a great deal of silliness. What does it mean, 160 jobs, $800,00 per year, $15 million in annual sales for area business? So far all of the economic development proposals for the County have added up to a whole lot of nothing. No additional revenues for the County, a whole lot of money for the rainmakers.”
Q: Will costly entry and monthly fees mean the average person can’t afford to live in your new community?
A: While we have not yet finalized pricing, it is our goal to make our new community affordable for as many people as possible. Entrance fees will be based on the market value of other homes in the area, while monthly fees are dependent on operational costs.
“This is a multimillion dollar project and the owners do not know how much they will charge? Absurd.”
Q: Will Presbyterian Home of Maryland seek tax relief to finance this new community?
A: We have not yet finalized our financing decisions and do not expect to do so until our financial models are complete.
“The Maryland legislature has not convened, and therefore we will not tell you what we have asked for. We believe that we have the County in our pocket, and at least 2 of the Council members. We may have a third but we are working the wild cards. If we can get a 4-3 vote we are in. We need a TIF for all of the dirt work, and property tax relief for the rest. We can flip development of the single family dwellings for a profit, and management of the 640 CCRC bed to a third party for a huge profit.”
“A: Based on the projected population of the new CCRC, we anticipate only 1-2 EMT visits per month. (We will have staff on site 24 hours a day capable of handling non-life threatening emergencies.) EMT’s turn off their sirens and lights when entering the campus so as not to disturb residents and surrounding areas.
“EMT’s will turn off their lights and sirens when they enter our facility. However, they will use them when they go through your neighborhood or on your roads to access our facility. Sorry for your inconvenience.””
If you paid attention to reality instead of letting your quest for the status quo blind you, you’d realize that BAVFC already blows through the 22 & 543 intersection multiple times per day with full lights and siren. Plus the 24×7 nursing care at the facility lets the home provide more information about the situation to the dispatcher (medical personnel at nursing homes calling the ambulance dispatcher directly, bypassing the 911 dispatch center, has been shown to be an effective strategy) reducing the number of lights-and-siren responses.
“A: While we have not yet finalized pricing, it is our goal to make our new community affordable for as many people as possible. Entrance fees will be based on the market value of other homes in the area, while monthly fees are dependent on operational costs.
“This is a multimillion dollar project and the owners do not know how much they will charge? Absurd.””
It is a private business. Did you demand to know how much Walmart would charge for TVs or lawn mowers while evaluating their proposal to move to Bel Air? Disclosing pricing would also cause ignorant persons to comment on the rates that would be quoted, not realizing how expensive a hospice patient’s care can be or how patients’ insurance factors into the equation.
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss KHARN
Sir, Ma’am
Well yes, I do believe that you are correct that the BAVFC does blow through the 22&543 intersection multiple times a day. That really is not the issue. As indicated by PH their main entrance will be on Route 543. That is the entrance that will be the well landscaped one with the architecturally correct sign. The secondary entrance and the emergency entrance, those will probably be otherwise called service entrances, will be through the residential neighborhoods. Guess which one the EMTs will go through with lights and sirens. Which one do you think the delivery trucks will use?
You do have a point on your discussion of pricing. The problem though is that Wal-Mart did not offer to provide a question and then answer about the price of their lawnmowers or TVs. The questions and answers for the Presbyterian Homes were developed by them, and posted by them. They introduced the question and then provided an incredibly evasive, gratuitous and equivocal answer. Do you honestly believe that any Wal-Mart would approach a multimillion dollar deal and not know exactly what the numbers would be? They would know precisely what they would need in order to go forward. Unless you believe that PH is incredibly naive, don’t you think they did the same internal review? Or at least hired some third party, who they may be fronting for, to do it for them?
THNX
John P. Mallamo
For normal facilities of this nature, “emergency” entrances are truly for emergencies, and are usually blocked with chain to discourage normal traffic but allowing emergency crews to cut the chain in seconds. They’re not used unless the main entrance is blocked, such as by the first fire truck on the scene during a catastrophic incident, not by a single ambulance transporting a patient.
If you want to limit the path taken by delivery trucks, discuss it with PH and negotiate a voluntary restriction. Don’t forget that the main entrance is also in the middle of the proposed single family neighborhood, so PH’s delivery services will be impacting at least one residential neighborhood regardless of the route taken. Existing residents would have a stronger case than hypothetical future residents, so this concession could be easily won.
If you want to see the typical rates charged, I was able to find the private-payer rates for the PH facility in Towson on their website, a reasonable person would expect similar charges for a Bel Air facility, and I suspect PH has used the same rates for their planning purposes. But stating those rates in a Q&A, without the context of the services included, would not further productive discussion about the facility. Regardless of if they want to charge $1 or $1,000 per day, it is the company’s choice and not the public’s. If the price is too high, they’ll have few residents, if it is too low, they’ll lose money, so the market will correct the situation.
Mr. Mallamo,
In order for the Courts to recognize standing as an “aggrieved party”, the proposed development must have an adverse impact on your personally. Mapquest lists your residence as 5.49 miles away, which clearly does not meet the legal test.
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Abbey Road
Sir, Ma’am
Interesting point. I am not quite sure how we have gotten to an interpretation of standing by the courts but your point is worth some discussion, for a number of reasons.
I deduce from the point that you are employed in the legal profession. Either an attorney, legal secretary, judge or some other position within the legal profession. So let’s start with that assumption and work further.
As you know, the court system we have is a truly remarkable institution. In most states the law is determined to be uniformly applied. The single exception is Louisiana, which follows the Napoleonic code. Fortunately, the southwest portion of the United States was not held by the French long enough to have that code applied there as well. In any event, the system is intended to allow for people to get a fair hearing of their complaint. Now, both sides of the dispute can be represented by counsel of their choice, if they so choose. Both parties enter the court with great certitude that they are right, and wait only for the court to confirm that. Oddly, one party will prevail over another. But that decision is made by the jury, or the judge depending on the trial. For one party in the case to decide for the other party is contrary to the judicial system.
I seem to recall that at one time the County did limit comments on a proposed development to residents within a certain area. Now however, anyone may take a position on the issue, and may prevail on that issue.
So, is it appropriate for you to decide who will have standing in a court of law? No. You may have an opinion, but you lack the authority for the decision.
Additionally, you must certainly know that standing is fully dependent and determined on the pleading. If the pleading is very narrowly crafted, then standing would be very limited. If on the other hand a skilled person were to undertake the task of developing a pleading to expand the standing for aggrieved parties, then standing would be expanded. A class action suit is not outside the realm of possibilities here.
Finally, if your sole purpose is to limit objections to this project, or intimidate those who would object, then I suspect that you will be very busy, as there quite a few who will object. With or without your permission.
THNX
John P. Mallamo
John, you are spot on. Well done.
With all due respect this treatise is so chock full of propaganda. Low water use? Limited road use by residents? I could make a long list of nonsense here that still doesn’t screen the truth of the conspiring to undermine existing code. If PH have two hoots about the existing neighborhoods the buildings would be capped @ two stories. I drove all the way across the county yesterday not seeing a single 4 story structure until Beard’s Hill in Aberdeen. What irony – a hotel and quickly followed by the still empty, hideous Aberdeen Corporate Center; yep two years after Brac and the only occupants are clumps of weeds that grow in the always empty parking lot, but at least that’s a commercial district. Aside from the obvious misplacement of a project of this scope it’s hard to trust anything asserted by PH if they want us to believe old folks don’t bathe, don’t have visitors, won’t be eating, washing clothes and that all the employees of PH will be airlifted in.
Soon yolu can see high rise appartments behind the Target in Constant Friendship. Went to my storage unit and saw that zoning hearing sign for about 150+ apartments going in at the end of th road. Wonder if they will be making another way out of there?
Gotta get while the gettins’ good as they say. These crooks have about 10 months to shove as much through as they can. Still waiting to find out who benefits from the expansion of the “enterprise zone”, 3 major zone changes for this project, the tacit if not actual illegal purchase of the waterfront property w/ no clear understanding of any cap on final costs, free money giveaways approved and supported by this administration with the argument being everybody else does it…wonder what Euler did wrong; gosh everybody else gets the rules waived and all he wanted was a hideous, enormous barnlike structure on the corner of 152 and Rte 1. The sad thing is the intent of having attorneys working for the county is to ensure all contracts are proper, laws are followed and activities of officials legal and proper so as to protect the citizens from lawsuits, etc., but apparently it’s been morphed into scouring the existing ordinances and zoning restrictions to find loopholes that the citizens can’t fight. Can’t build a fence without a permit, build a deck that doesn’t fit the code, but you sure can put up a 4 story structure in the middle of a neighborhood with the help and assistance of filthy Craig.
That is why the zoning board and variance process exist, to allow people (and corporations) to do what they want with their land. You can build a deck or fence, if you follow the procedures laid out in the regulations and request a variance for anything outside the ordinary, just like you can build a CCRC on R1 land and ask for a variance to build over the height restriction.
The zoning board exists to ensure zoning is set up to promote the best use of land resources for everyone with deference to land owners rights and the variance process exists to allow for consideration for exceptions in cases where it makes sense. In neither case do either of those departments exist to allow carte blanche, anything goes for anyone who wants it because otherwise there’d be no point of having any zoning laws at all.
The Money Tree:
But every land owner is allowed to make use of the variance process. Just because you do not agree with their intended use does not prohibit the owner from attempting to win approval. The board will have to consider PH’s proposed use against the community’s input while following established procedures, but saying PH should not have access to the process is wrong.
Look at Walmart, they tried for the pie in the sky, getting 924 access, they were denied so they modified their site plans accordingly. So will PH, they’re asking for their dream, and they know they won’t win every design point but they think they can win enough of them to make the project profitable.
That’d be great Kharn except PH isn’t participating in the variance process. The county executive w/ the council’s signatures approved permanent amendments to zoning regulations. I’d like to know the how’s and why’s since it is not legally acceptable for a non-profit to solicit in this manner. It’s clear to me since the amendment’s were tailored to fit the site plan that the entire thing was negotiated outside public record with no public input. I assume PH will get what they want – have no illusions but let’s not pretend this entire series of events doesn’t stink up the place big time.
The Walmart analogy is tenuous. 924 access was a state matter related to traffic, not an issue about zoning or the appeals board. As far as I understand, local government approved access, but state government did not.
Regardless about the other pros and cons of this nursing home, the state will have to make a similar traffic determination regarding 22 and 543, mostly likely resulting in a similar traffic abatement plan.
I agree with the The Money Tree on all things development.
There should be a NIMBY Board to disapprove all new commercial development.
Developers are greedy capitalists and should be banned from Harford County.
If you had driven West instead of East, you would have found the closest 4-story building to the site is the A. A. Roberty Building in Bel Air, 2.5 miles away, not Beards Hill Road, which is 8.4 miles away.
And thanks Kharn for making my point. That building is downtown…in the middle of a commercial district. Try again…
A CCRC is not a commercial building.
Kharn – This particular CCRC will have a bank, a post office, multiple dining rooms, a beauty shop, full time administrative staff, 24 hour skilled nursing care, private security, private ambulance, arts and crafts, fitness facilities, full time maintenance, 160 – 180 employees, a pub, and a general store among other things. How is that not a commercial operation? It is a self-contained city so the residents do not have to leave.
So when PHM talks about traffic, all they care to mention is that 50% of their residents don’t drive. What they do not care to mention is all the traffic that will be generated from all of the above plus all of the visitors coming to see the residents. This will result in excess of 2,000 trips per day in and out the development.
You are taking four story buildings at a density of 12 units per acre and what amounts to a major commercial operation and putting it all in the middle of residential neighborhoods with a density of less than one unit per acre. And further you are taking all of the traffic generated by the project (2,000+ trips daily) and putting in right on to 543 and 22 which are notoriously congested at peak times already. Oh and did I forget, on the land that is not being used by PHM, they are putting 120 single family homes. Oh and one more thing, there is already 136 homes under construction within one mile of this project. Get the picture???? It is too much for this area.
Actually, there are 4 story 55+ condos in the community behind Safeway. I am not in favor of everything happening with the CCRC, but please argue points that are not so easily disputed. If you want people to listen and take your position seriously, you should have a fairly iron-clad argument. (sort of like the lovely standing letter – that was brillant!)
There are plenty of 4 story condos around Harford county, Money tree ain’t the brightest light in the harbor.
Be interested in your list of 4 story condos, particularly those that exceeded 50 ft because until a few days ago those units were illegal. Seriously lets get your list..
Drive east on 23 past the Shopright in foresthill. Look south and behold the treasures you seek.
The height restrictions were on apts and CCRC’s only you dolt.
http://www.harfordcountymd.gov/Auditor/Documents/2215.pdf
Money Tree, you’re such a numb nut.
How about the condos on Running Creek Way Money tree and MacPhail Woods crossing… Are they illegal too?
You are such a rube without a clue.
I have in the PH of Towson and you’d be amazed how much laundering goes on! Then there is the hospital and cooking siphoning. I would like to see the water bills from the PH home of Towson related to the number of residents living there. Are Balto. City water meter bills a matter of public record?
Does the PH of Towson have an issue paying their water bill? As long as the facility does so, and the County is charging appropriate rates (including operating costs, short and long term maintenance, capital costs, etc), what is the problem?
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Kharn
Sir, Ma’am
Perhaps the larger point is that these are all the elements that will be used to seek property tax relief from the State and County. I believe that these elements will show up in the financial analysis report, supporting tax relief, from either the Sage Policy Group, or Municap.
By the way, the Sage policy group lists Harford County BRAC office as one of their clients. Municap did the analysis for Beechtree and James Run TIFs. Neither seems to have worked out too well for Harford County residents.
Question for you is does Presbyterian Homes have a problem paying property taxes?
THNX
John P. Mallamo
Shouldn’t every corporation do its best to reduce operating costs, thus increasing revenue and value for the shareholders? Asking for reduced taxes would further that goal.
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Kharn
Sir, Ma’am
Very valid point. Here are four other points to consider.
First. Shouldn’t I seek to reduce my costs, taxes, by ensuring that others are also paying their taxes?
Second. Why should I agree to increase my costs, taxes, so that others can increase their revenues by paying none?
Third. Why should any County resident agree to reduce County tax revenues, therby reducing services to increase some corporations operating revenue?
Fourth. Why should County employees agree to forego increases to their compensation to increase some corporations operating revenue?
THNX
John P. Mallamo
If you’re not happy with current tax incentives, lobby to change the law rather than cry about those who make use of them.
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Kharn
Sir, Ma’am
Very interesting point regarding tax incentives.
It would seem that you would reduce any resident who offers a comment on the distribution of County wealth, levying taxes, government process to “crying”.
Is that truly how you view the democratic process?
Why do you suppose the county council holds a public hearing on any of these issues? Are those perfunctionary hearings for show only?
“The legal right of a taxpayer to decrease the amount of what otherwise would be his taxes, or altogether avoid them, by means which the law permits, cannot be doubted.” Supreme Court of the United States, Gregory v. Helvering, 1935.
Lobby to change the system, not complain about those working within it.
Mr./Mrs./Ms./Miss Kharn
Sir, Ma’am
First a brief discussion on your stratagems. You seek to provoke deeper thought and elicit further discussion, with what would appear to be outrageous statements. You are either compensated for your efforts, or it is the game you love. That said, let’s review your latest gambit.
“Lobby to change the system, not complain about those working within it.”
The “system” has more than one part. Harford County has a representative form of government. It is divided into districts, each represented by a Council person. Additionally, there is a County Executive, independent of the Council.
Within that structure is an Office of Economic Development, comprised of appointed and career employees, whose purpose is to find business willing to move to Harford County, and distribute county wealth as an incentive. Unlike the County Council or County Executive, the Office of Economic Development does not have the responsibility of paying for the increased requirements of government operations, with reduced revenues as a direct result of their efforts. They only have to find business willing to take the money.
Both County Council and County executive work to “represent” their constituents. Now, our representatives, with our agreement, developed a system of tax incentives, ostensibly to attract business to the County. These incentives are distributed, by the County Executive and County Council, but require the agreement of the residents of Harford County usually after a public hearing. The important piece for you, the County Council and the County Executive to understand is that they represent the residents of Harford County, not their own special interests. When the residents, through their comments, declare that they have no desire to distribute tax incentives, or other County wealth to any third party, then that distribution should not be concluded. After all it is the rest of the County residents who are left to make up the difference of reduced revenues from increased government operations, or to accept reduced services from the County. In other words, the County Council and County Executive do not have unilateral authority to distribute county wealth as they see fit.
Clearly the number of people who attended the Community Input Meeting last night were not happy about the actions of PH. Maybe some of the Council and County government observed this. Maybe there is a chance for this part of the “system” to work.
Now how to “change the system”. It would seem that it would be of great benefit to register those who are compensated to influence the actions of the County Executive and County Council. It would also be of some benefit to reign in the Office of Economic Development and make them accountable for the wealth they distribute, the additional funding required of Harford County residents as a result of that distribution, as well as any reduction in services.
So, how do you believe that the system works, and what changes do you believe are necessary?
THNX
John P. MALLAMo
I read somewhere that this was a low water usage project – I don’t believe it. I don’t care about what they did not claim.
C’mon guys, why waste your precious time complaining?
You’re very unlikely to be able to stop this project. it’s inevitable.
Mr. Jacobs,
Sir,
It would seem likely that this project may move forward. The big however is that this is the same group that elected not to build in Aberdeen because they could not get a tax break from the city.
Seems very curious to me that they would not have stayed at the Aberdeen location and built, in spite of their inability to secure a tax break. Moving to a new location within the County, and stating that is “too early to tell” about what kind of tax break they will request seems just a little bit less than candid and forthright.
Or could it be that the financial position of PH has improved so much that they will not require any assistance from the County, or State. Could be, but doubtful
I guess we will just have to wait for Municap to finish their analysis to see just how much Harford County residents will have to pay for this.
John P. Mallamo
Or maybe they want a different clientele than an Aberdeen zip code might attract?
I would be hesitant to place a loved one in Aberdeen, especially if a Bel Air location were available. True, typical residents would not be out wandering the streets at 2am, but I’d want to know they would be safe going to their car or enjoying an evening stroll on the facility.
And the NIMBY’s rise to the surface.
Except this isn’t anywhere near my backyard so if you apply the label “nimby” to anyone that objects to any development no matter how ill advised or suspiciously approved anywhere in the county I’ll wear your label with pride.
All you do is complain about development in this county. You have changed nothing to date, keep up the good work.
What he (The Money Tree) has complained about is the uneven and seemingly disingenuous way projects are undertaken in Harford County that seem to fit the will of the political powers that be, as opposed to the relatively uninformed and otherwise unengaged citizenry our elected leaders are supposed to represent. The developers just want to make money off of us while providing some sort of incentive for our civic leaders for the right and endorsement to do so. In other words… we are cattle in a slaughterhouse and you will like the arrangements we make for you.
So right you are Because. The common man has been subjugated by the wealthy propertied robber barons. They make money from us all and make us live destitute lives in their service.
I agree with you in spirit that we need a massive redistribution of wealth, leveling of the playing field and dignity for all. The affluent do not need or evn use all the wealth and would it not be better to give to those less fortunate? That’s the highest purpose for government at all levels.
Let’s start here in Harford County by progressively taxing these wealthy propertied robber barons and redistributing today.
I like retirement communities and will fully support this project.
You guys can all get your panties in a wad, but if you were in PH’s position you would do whatever to maximize your profits and lessen your costs. That’s how it works.
Do any of you realize how this area looked 50 years ago? This isn’t just happening, it’s been happening and you are the problem. Everyone left Dundalk, Essex, Rosedale and moved to Harford County. You’re living the dream!
Ahhhh, ol’aberdeen’s fancy brick office complex. What is it, year 2 of being unoccupied? What up with that?
Indeed it’s year no. two and nobody other than tumbleweeds…plus in a designated enterprise zone which means 10 years with no property taxes and for occupants reduced employee taxes except there are no freakin’ occupants. Interesting to note that somehow Harford County has more acres designated as enterprise zone qualified than anywhere else in Maryland including Baltimore City. So anytime they tell you we need to develope to expand the tax base check where the expansion is taking place because chances are you’re paying more tax on your 1500 sq. ft. bungaloo than these morons pay for their empty 95,000 sq. foot empty box.
Do you think anyone wants that 95,000sqft office empty? It was planned during the boom, now we’re stagnant in the bust. Maybe in a few years we’ll get a new administration that believes strength is more important than political correctness and that office building will be filled with hundreds of government contractors who will want to live in those “from the low $300s” homes and pay real estate and income taxes accordingly.
That building is a sign of where Harford County was a few years ago, and where we are today.
Why in God’s name would you be excited for more government contractors coming to suck off our already bloated defense budget?
Because,
We want to government to shrink and at the same time have the smaller consolidated federal workforce and government contractors live here.
You can hold both of these mutually exclusive but related views without becoming a hypocrite like you Because.
You are delusional. Government Contract Employees actually cost more than government workers. Sorry to rain on your parade but you are seriously delusional no matter how much you want to repeat the private business can do it cheaper lie.
Absolutists BS from Because.
I know many, many contractors who make far less than their equivalent GS counterparts. Even after accounting for the generally 30% overheads taken by the contracting company the contract employee still costs less than the GS worker’s base pay. Throw in the gold benefits, 30 year retirements, bonuses, plethora of perks, paid furloughs, and other bennies and the .govs are sitting very pretty. On top of it all .govs are almost impossible to fire for non-performance, the contractor can be gone in a single day.
Peddle BS somewhere else Davy boy. I know you have a self justification to protect but I’m not buying it and neither should the American taxpayers.
Greed and self interest, there is no stopping it…..on both sides.
As I recall, when this “nonprofit organization” tried to build in the Aberdeen area, it did not plan to provide actual “long-term care” as advertised. This was discovered by a very astute lawyer who read the small print in the “resident contract.” If one plans to move to this facility, one should have a lawyer read the resident contract before putting a down payment into this “community.”
A senior who “almost” put money into the once planned Aberdeen senior site
You are incorrect.
How would I do this deal.
Knowing that the Harford County Rainmakers, who may have obvious ties to the Presbyterian Homes, cannot visibly influence legislation, I would split the deal. One part for Presbyterian Homes, one part for the single family dwellings.
I could legitimately influence the legislation for the TIF on the single family homes, and out of generosity, include the Presbyterian Homes piece as well.
As for tax relief, both real and especially personal property tax, I could get an industry lobbyist to pursue this through the State legilature and the County. Any idea when the State legislature convenes?
Keeps my hands clean.
Any other thoughts?
THNX
John P. Mallamo
Cautiously optimistic on this one but it seems that sometimes community involvement does indeed have some impact. The update on this story is the plan for Eva Mar has been withdrawn for revision. Now is not the time to relax…often they lead with pie in the sky only to have you accept what they wanted all along as if you’ve won a compromise. Trust no one and remain vigilant. It’s your community and you have a right to a say as to what happens where you live.